Sunday's News: Cadaver plays Lazarus, Suns play blipless

[SwingMan]

Healthy Suns rally past Bucks (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0112suns0113.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/pics/0112sunslive.jpg
Steve Nash drives past the Bucks' Charlie Bell at US Airways Center in Phoenix on Saturday.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 12, 2008 10:53 PM

A Sports Illustrated survey of NBA players revealed that Steve Nash is the person that his peers would want most to play with if given the chance.

Members of the Suns had the same feeling Thursday when the offense that had just scored 137 against Denver sputtered without Nash to season lows in scoring (86) and shooting (36 percent) at Utah.

Phoenix got Nash and fellow All-Star Shawn Marion back Saturday night, and it was almost as if the Suns had Grant Hill back, too - with the way Boris Diaw played aggressively in his starting slot - as the Suns rallied to a 122-114 home win against Milwaukee.
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The Suns' pick-and-roll defense was abysmal most of the game, leading to a deficit and 68 first-half points for the Bucks. Milwaukee center Andrew Bogut posted a career-high 29 points on 14-of-16 shooting, mostly against Amaré Stoudemire. Even with Michael Redd missing six of his first seven shots, the Suns made it look as though the Bucks would snap a streak of 19 consecutive winless visits to Phoenix.

The Suns mustered a third quarter of NBA defense while Nash showed why he should get the league's best shooter in that survey, too. Nash made his first eight shots of the second half, and the Suns began to score at the same rate that they allowed Milwaukee to in the second quarter, when the Bucks scored on 12 consecutive possessions.

It was Nash from the perimeter and Diaw harkening back to his 2005-06 season that earned him the Most Improved Player trophy, a $45 million contract extension and the nickname "3-D" for his multidimensional game. The Suns turned the game in their favor with a 35-18 third quarter that included five Suns takeaways leading to 10 points.

Despite battling a recent flu, Nash finished with a season-high 35 points on 13-of-17 shooting with 26 of his points coming in the second half.

"I actually didn't feel great but somebody was smiling on me, and a bunch of shots went in," Nash said.

The Bucks counted on a less-than-100-percent Nash to focus on passing.

"We were going to stay with some shooters and see if he was ready to beat us," Bucks coach Larry Krystkowiak said. "That was the poison we chose."

Diaw, starting while Hill recovers from an appendectomy, also posted a season high with 21 points as he took advantage of guards who switched onto him. Diaw added 11 rebounds, his first points-and-rebounds double-double in 61 games. It came two nights after he had five points and two rebounds in 35 minutes at Utah. He called it "nothing special."

"I try to read the situation as usual and make the right play," Diaw said. "When it's a bigger guy on me, I try to use my quickness and a lot of movement - ball movement or players' movement that helps against bigger guys."

Suns report

Cheers

Last seen leaving US Airways Center ill on Wednesday, guard Steve Nash returned with a season-high 35 points and made 10 consecutive shots in one stretch.

Jeers

Milwaukee shot 62 percent in the first half and seemed to get whatever shot it wanted each time it ran the two-man game.

Player of the game

Boris Diaw gets it with 21 points and 11 rebounds.

View from press row

When Boris Diaw is an all-around threat like he was Saturday, it makes him even more effective with his passing. Diaw got rolling against Milwaukee with drives and post-ups against mismatched Bucks. One third-quarter play showed the difference that his aggressive play sets up. After Diaw scored three times in four trips, he passed cross-court out of his post-up and had the Bucks scrambling to recover defensively. Diaw did not get the play's assist but he essentially set up Steve Nash's uncovered 3-pointer.

- Paul Coro

[SwingMan]

Coach likes Suns under radar (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0112sunsnb0113.html)

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 12, 2008 09:40 PM

Next to Steve Nash's corner locker there is a white board on the wall that keeps updated NBA standings, but players pay little attention to it.

"There's nobody in there that even knows what position we're in," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said.

The dynamics of the Western Conference have changed, but D'Antoni said the Suns are unaffected by it. Even though the West's top seven teams were separated by only 2 1/2 games entering Saturday, D'Antoni said the makeup of the West is not that different from last year, when strong starts by New Orleans and the Los Angeles Lakers were spoiled by injuries and Golden State and Denver improved with in-season trades. Portland is the only wild card, he said.
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He contends that the Suns are "under the radar," and he likes it that way.

"You can't think you're going to win 60-62 games and you're just going to win 17 in a row," D'Antoni said. "There's a reason we've only done that once in history. It wasn't because we were so dominating. It's because of the breaks of the game."

Nursing Nash

Like Raja Bell last weekend, Nash showed up for Wednesday's home game believing he could play through the flu that had begun to ravage his stomach. A few hours later, his mother was taking him to the emergency room for two bags of intravenous fluid.

"I just got worse and worse," said Nash, who lost about 5 pounds while skipping Thursday's game and Friday's practice. "It was probably a stupid thing to play. I didn't realize it at the time. It came on quickly.

"I felt really, really bad after the game, and so I couldn't sleep. I was in a lot of pain so I went to the hospital. Anytime you're sick, it's not fun. Feeling bad and lying around is tough."

Meet LB

Suns guard Leandro Barbosa will meet fans and sign autographs in Ahwatukee from 2 to 3 p.m. Sunday at Jack in the Box, 4950 E. Ray Road (west of Interstate 10). His appearance is to promote Saturday's eighth annual Jack in the Box Celebrity Shootout, the proceeds of which benefit Phoenix Suns Charities, Suns Nite Hoops and Cox Charities.

Free throws

The Suns' Jan. 27 game at Chicago was dropped by ABC and will be shown on FSNAZ.

• Phoenix played its fourth consecutive home game Saturday against a team playing the second game of a back-to-back set. Milwaukee lost to the Los Angeles Lakers 110-105 on Friday in Los Angeles.

• Guard Marcus Banks played in a sixth consecutive game Saturday. It is his longest string of activity since Jan. 26-Feb. 20 last year.

[scosuns]

Very impressive what Nash did. I'm glad hes felling better. Well it looked that way. And the last time Marcus Banks played 6 consecutive games or more was last year? I thought it would have been longer than that.

[cap]

This feels like a reasonable time to post my statistical take on the All-Star teams. This is based on the zero-average per-game-by-team ratings:


F Dirk Nowitzki Kevin Garnett
F Tim Duncan LeBron James
C Andrew Bynum Dwight Howard
G Chris Paul Chauncey Billups
G Kobe Bryant Jose Calderon

f Carlos Boozer Paul Pierce
f Shawn Marion Chris Bosh
c Yao Ming Brendan Haywood
g Steve Nash Richard Hamilton
g Baron Davis Ray Allen
* Amare Stoudemire Caron Butler
* Manu Ginobili Josh Smith

Our Big Three all make it. Calderon is a bit of a surprise, but that’s what the numbers say. Haywood makes it by default, as there aren’t any centers in the East outside of Howard.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Changed “Steve Mash” to “Steve Nash.” Thanks, JackArse.

[JackArse]

i don't know.. steve mash is kind of a . middle of the road player.

[Mori_Chu]

I'm actually kind of looking forward to the fact that Marion will not likely make the real All-Star team. I want him to play pissed off for the second half of the season. Hopefully it'll light a fire under him.

[Xcon]

What's happened to Raja's shooting? Has he become this year's version of Jim Jackson? Several of his threes last night barely made it to the rim. Hope he pulls out of it, we'll need his outside shooting come playoff time. I will give him props for his D on Redd though.

[AlanS]

Alando Tucker is back in the D-League, and he picked up right where he left off. In the Albuquerque Thunderbirds' 123-117 win over the Austin Toros, this was his stat line: 38 minutes, 33 pts, 12/22 FGs, 1/2 3PT, 8/9 FTs, 10 rebs (5 off), 2 assts, 3 TO.

The most positive thing about his time in the D-League is his T shooting. In college, he was a sub-70% shooter from the foul line. Alando's D-League stats aren't available on line, but I'm sure he's shooting 75-80% from the line. Good for him.

I do think it's unfortunate that he seems to be spending most of his time at SF. As I've said before, I think he's too small to be an NBA SF; he needs to develop his guard (shooting and dribbling) skills. Still, this is way better than just sitting on the bench.

---
Hmmm... this is where somebody says "Tucker is so good, it's pitiful that he isn't getting a look. How do we know if Tucker can't help, if they never let him play?" An answer to that would be to find out what was he was like in college. This is the book on Alando Tucker from Sports Illustrated < http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/2007/draft/players/31135.html > :

• Makes up for his lack of size with exceptional athleticism. Set a school record in the vertical leap (38 inches). His leaping skills, along with an aggressive streak and an ability to penetrate, gives him a strong inside presence and a knack for following up on missed shots.

• He's an extremely poor free-throw shooter at 63.6 percent for his career, and doesn't have much of an outside shot.

• Not big enough to be a forward in the NBA, and doesn't have enough of a perimeter game or the ballhandling skills to be consistently effective at guard, so teams may have trouble figuring out how he would fit.

• Doesn't seem to possess much range as a player other than his ability to score.

All of that explains why Tucker dropped to 29th in the draft. If Tucker was an impact player like an Al Horford, I'd be the first to wonder why he wasn't getting minutes. But Alando has a lot of stuff to improve on, and I will trust the coaches' thinking that he's not ready for 'real' (non-garbage time) minutes.

[ShelC]

What's happened to Raja's shooting? Has he become this year's version of Jim Jackson? Several of his threes last night barely made it to the rim. Hope he pulls out of it, we'll need his outside shooting come playoff time. I will give him props for his D on Redd though.

There was an article a few weeks ago posted here that basically said we need to get back to basics. We've probably come to expect too much from Raja. Let him get back to being that gritty defensive player who prides himself on defense, playing with that chip on his shoulder. No one expected him to be a shooter at the time of his signing. Hes more than fulfilled that expectation, now we're holding him to a different standard. We need him to be a threat, but as long as hes playing defense the way we know he can, the offense will come on its own.

But i agree that his outside shot, for whatever reason, has been flatter than usual and results in it hitting the front of the rim. His midrange game is there, so its probably just a case of getting a bit more lift on the ball. From what ive seen, he's not laboring to get off the floor to shoot it, so its not his legs or feet/ankles.

I think he's too small to be an NBA SF; he needs to develop his guard (shooting and dribbling) skills. Still, this is way better than just sitting on the bench.

Agreed. Its good that hes getting some run against some form of competition. The comp is a step down from he saw in college, but at least hes able to stay sharp with his game. My only complain, and ive said it before, is that hes not really helping himself or the organization if hes not working on the the things that will make him an NBA player (his ball handling, his form, his range on his shot). If hes just playing his usual game, he'll come back here as the same player: an college tweener too small for the 3 and not skilled enough for the 2. Then again, the plan could be to just keep him in shape and sharp during the season and use the offseason to work on his individual skills.

[Wormwood]

Tucker's stats are up.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=alando_tucker

He's hitting .512 from the field, .409 from 3 point range, and .844 from the charity stripe. He's also averaging 7.5 rpg in 39 mpg. What the hell though, we play Bell at SF a lot, why don't we give Alando a shot there. Fer chrissakes, he's better than Pike, and he doesn't need a brain transplant like Banks.

[AlanS]

Tucker's stats are up. He's hitting .512 from the field, .409 from 3 point range, and .844 from the charity stripe. He's also averaging 7.5 rpg in 39 mpg. What the hell though, we play Bell at SF a lot, why don't we give Alando a shot there. Fer chrissakes, he's better than Pike, and he doesn't need a brain transplant like Banks.

Just a caution: those D-League stats do not prove that Tucker is better than Pike. I've seen Tucker play in a D-League game, believe me, the competition is NOWHERE close to NBA level. Tucker looks very good by comparison to the guys he's playing, and he should, being a former Big 10 POY.

As for Piatkowski, i am not trying to defend him. But fact is, he is a practice/garbage time player, who was never expected to be anything but that. And because he's been sitting on the bench, whatever game he has left has gotten stale. The only expectation can be that if he plays meaningful minutes at all, he will suck.

[Ring_Wanted]

So Pike sucks. Well, we took him from retirement. He shouldn't play one minute, let alone get PT ahead of guys who need development and who could be contributors down the road..

[Superbone]

Alando Tucker is back in the D-League, and he picked up right where he left off. In the Albuquerque Thunderbirds' 123-117 win over the Austin Toros, this was his stat line: 38 minutes, 33 pts, 12/22 FGs, 1/2 3PT, 8/9 FTs, 10 rebs (5 off), 2 assts, 3 TO.

Jeff Ruland must love the Suns. Too bad he won't get Marion like he wants though.

[AlanS]

FYI: The Suns' offense and 3PT shooting have really picked up the past few games. Ignoring the debacle in Utah, these are some numbers from recent games:
• Bucks: 122 pts, 11/26 3PT (42.3%)
• Pacers: 129 pts (112 in regulation time), 14/31 3PT (45.2%)
• Nuggets: 137 pts, 20/31 3PT (64.5%)

The Suns are now shooting 38.2% on 3s, which is 4th best in the league (Raptors #1, 40.7%; Blazers #2, 38.9; Spurs #3, 38.9%).

Also - during the Indiana game, the Pacers broadcast crew said the Suns were #1 in fastbreak points, which I found interesting. I'm trying to find a site that shows fastbreak points per team - any suggestions?

[Superbone]

Agreed. Its good that hes getting some run against some form of competition. The comp is a step down from he saw in college...

You really think so? I'd think it would be a step up. These are the best guys from college that can't quite make the NBA.

[AlanS]

Agreed. Its good that hes getting some run against some form of competition. The comp is a step down from he saw in college...

You really think so? I'd think it would be a step up. These are the best guys from college that can't quite make the NBA.

I've only seen one D-League game - the one where Tucker went off for 40+ pts - and I don't know if that is representative of all D-League play. But the thing that 'impressed' me was how short the players were. The ABQ center was Darvin Ham, an NBA vet. Darvin Ham is 6-7, and an undersized NBA PF.

Because of the lack of size, a guy with any kind of inside scoring skills - like Tucker - can have a field day, because there's no fear of shot blocking.

The top Euro leagues definitely have more talent than the D-League (I would bet that at least a portion of D-leaguers are hoping to play well enough that some European team would take notice). An NCAA team like last year's Florida squad, with all the height it had, would probably be the best team in the Developmental League... IMO.

[ShelC]

These are the best guys from college that can't quite make the NBA.

Have you taken a good look at those rosters? There are better college players playing europe. There are defintiely some name guys from college in the NBDL, but they arent in abundance. And most of the college standouts that cant make the NBA go overseas and make waaaay more money, play against better comp and are better coached. It probably means more to scouts and execs going over to the top divisions in europe and being successful. Remember Ron Lewis from Ohio State? Hes playing in Poland IIRC. He could average 40 in the dleague but the money is better in poland. The dleauge just doesnt have much appeal right now for former standout college players. If you played high D1 and had some good stats, you can get a very nice deal overseas. Gerry McNamera tried grinding it out in Bakersfield, turned down 600k from a Greek team (panathianakos i think)hoping to get noticed by the NBA. That lasted a year. Now hes overseas making about 500k a year IIRC.

[Wormwood]

Tucker's stats are up. He's hitting .512 from the field, .409 from 3 point range, and .844 from the charity stripe. He's also averaging 7.5 rpg in 39 mpg. What the hell though, we play Bell at SF a lot, why don't we give Alando a shot there. Fer chrissakes, he's better than Pike, and he doesn't need a brain transplant like Banks.

Just a caution: those D-League stats do not prove that Tucker is better than Pike. I've seen Tucker play in a D-League game, believe me, the competition is NOWHERE close to NBA level. Tucker looks very good by comparison to the guys he's playing, and he should, being a former Big 10 POY.

As for Piatkowski, i am not trying to defend him. But fact is, he is a practice/garbage time player, who was never expected to be anything but that. And because he's been sitting on the bench, whatever game he has left has gotten stale. The only expectation can be that if he plays meaningful minutes at all, he will suck.


I agree, but only to a limited extent AlanS.

D'Antoni is always harping on teh idea "We win if we play with energy and hustle." Pike is physically incapable of giving either now.

I know D-league competition doesn't prove he's NBA ready, but geez, we know Pike sucks. We don't know if Tucker does. Wouldn't you like to find out? I would.

[SunsFan4Life]

I hope the Guys use the Thurs game in LAL as a STATEMENT GAME. Everyone is slurping the Lakers so Hard. JVG says there the team to beat...Collins,JVG,Jackson have all said they'd take them over Phoenix in a 7 game Series and everyone is saying PJ for C.O.Y. and Kupcheck for GM Of the Yr.

Like to see us come out and just really try tp stick it tot hem the last few times we played them its just been to comfy...Raja Helping Kobe up? a lot of laughing going on between Amare and Marion with Kobe(They r U.S.A. Teammates I understand that) Diaw and Turiaf Making Dates after the game.

Come out with some fire and determination Hate these guys like we did backin 2006 Playoff series where it was the "Us against the World" Mentality. That's gonna be a real key game to watch I.M.O Because this whole season and scnerio absolutely Reaks of the 2004 Season in the Pacific.

Sacramento on the downside of there elitle offensive Juggernaut was de-throwned by a quirky over-acheiving Phoenix Bunch. We won the Pacific that yr and Sacto hasn't been the same since with a lot of ageing players they re-built now We're looking like Sacto and the Lakers like the Next team to take over the Pacific Dominance with a young Nucleus of Kobe and Bynum with guys like Walton,Farmar and Odom. like Nash and Amare with Guys like JJ and Q.

ALL I'm sayin is I remember one game specificaly where I said to myself "The New Team in The Pacific to Beat is us" It's when we went into Arco that yr and Amare blocked Brad Miller at the Buzzer and we beat the Kings in Arco for the first time in a while. Kinda knew right there and then the new beasts of that divsion was us. Lets not let that happen with the Lakers

[Vladimir_Taltos]

I hope the Guys use the Thurs game in LAL as a STATEMENT GAME. Everyone is slurping the Lakers so Hard. JVG says there the team to beat...Collins,JVG,Jackson have all said they'd take them over Phoenix in a 7 game Series and everyone is saying PJ for C.O.Y. and Kupcheck for GM Of the Yr.

Like to see us come out and just really try tp stick it tot hem the last few times we played them its just been to comfy...Raja Helping Kobe up? a lot of laughing going on between Amare and Marion with Kobe(They r U.S.A. Teammates I understand that) Diaw and Turiaf Making Dates after the game.



Amen. I think this is a make or break movie for D'A, assuming everyone but Hill is back. Diaw is there and SHOULD be able to pick it up for Grant, hopefully everyone else is over the flu, etc. If we're out of our funk, this is the game to show it...and to NOT vs. this team of all...well, I think that is saying something too...but it wouldn't be good. I REALLY pray/hope/etc. that Mike and the team turn a corner here...time to make a stand and a statement.

VT

[Phoenix219]

Kupcheck as GM of the year? Why? Did the Lakers do ANYTHING this year? GM of the year for standing pat? I don't get that one at all.

[AlanS]

I know D-league competition doesn't prove he's NBA ready, but geez, we know Pike sucks. We don't know if Tucker does. Wouldn't you like to find out? I would.

Well, i hate to be harsh, but... I assume that Tucker "sucks" too. I'm not trying to lambast the guy. But he's a rookie, with known deficiencies to his game that dropped him to 29th in the draft. There is no evidence he would be a contributor right away. NONE. Maybe by some by some miracle he has overcome his deficiencies, and is ready, but... I don't believe in miracles.

Now, here's a scenario that could happen: Let's say Steve Kerr went to Mike and said, "Mike I want you to play Tucker. I know he's a rookie and he's not ready. i know giving him minutes means that our chances of losing games will increase. i don't care if we lose more games, and lose our chance at home court advantage in the playoffs, and get our fans even more angry than they are now. Just play him."

In that case, I can see Tucker playing. I don't know if that will happen, though...

[SunsFan4Life]

BTW, The Mavs are quietly tied wit us for the lead in the WC. I always have said the Mavs don't have what it takes to win it all and I'm not scared of them. I'm still not scared of them but I think this is there best team. Bass has really added a lot for them, and Devin Harris has improved that outside shot. Dallas is flying under the radr probably even more then we are. Everyone is so caught up with the Blazers and Hornets and espcially the Lakers, everyone compares them to the Favorites(SA) and Dallas is still right there. I Think The two teams Dallas doesn't want to play in the Playoffs is GSW and us everyone else they match up pretty well against.

Right now imo you still have the 3 BIG powers in Dallas,SA,Phoenix right behind them is the Lakers who r getting better and better then a notch below them is everyone else...Utah,N.O.,Denver ETC

[AlanS]

I hope the Guys use the Thurs game in LAL as a STATEMENT GAME. Everyone is slurping the Lakers so Hard.

Well, the Lakers deserve that. They have a good record and what appears to be a very good team.

It would be nice for the Suns to make a statement, but i don't expect it. The Suns are the underdogs, no question: they are on the road, and missing a starter. This would be an upset win, if it happens... and I hope it does.

I will be very interested to see how the minutes work out for that game. In the last game between these two teams, the Suns starters played the Lakers starters even. But Kobe, Odom, and Bynum each played 41 minutes, and they crushed the Suns' bench during their extended time. I wonder if D'Antoni will pull out all the stops playing-time wise to get the win?

[Wormwood]

I know D-league competition doesn't prove he's NBA ready, but geez, we know Pike sucks. We don't know if Tucker does. Wouldn't you like to find out? I would.

Well, i hate to be harsh, but... I assume that Tucker "sucks" too. I'm not trying to lambast the guy. But he's a rookie, with known deficiencies to his game that dropped him to 29th in the draft. There is no evidence he would be a contributor right away. NONE. Maybe by some by some miracle he has overcome his deficiencies, and is ready, but... I don't believe in miracles.

Now, here's a scenario that could happen: Let's say Steve Kerr went to Mike and said, "Mike I want you to play Tucker. I know he's a rookie and he's not ready. i know giving him minutes means that our chances of losing games will increase. i don't care if we lose more games, and lose our chance at home court advantage in the playoffs, and get our fans even more angry than they are now. Just play him."

In that case, I can see Tucker playing. I don't know if that will happen, though...

I can sort of see where you're coming from. We can assume that D'Antoni doesn't think Alando's ready to contribute. Problem is, we have some small amount of evidence he is, and proof the Pike has nothing left in the tank. Truthfully, I can't possibly see how Tucker could hurt us more when he's on the court than Pike already does.

If Kerr went to D'Antoni, it would be more along the lines of "Mike, I know you really like Pike's attitude and work ethic, but he's killing us out there when you play him. Throw Tucker in there for a game or two where you would have played Eric, and see what happens. If we're down to playing Pike, it probably means so many starters are hurt that we're not in a great position to win anyway."

You are correct though if you make the assumption that Mike D is a perfect evaluator of talent and fit, and that Mike D knows with 100% accuracy there is a zero percent chance, with no variance, that Alando could be any better than Pike when he actually gets real minutes. Which is why I (very respectfully) disagree.

[JediSkywalker]

I hope the Guys use the Thurs game in LAL as a STATEMENT GAME. Everyone is slurping the Lakers so Hard.

Well, the Lakers deserve that. They have a good record and what appears to be a very good team.

It would be nice for the Suns to make a statement, but i don't expect it. The Suns are the underdogs, no question: they are on the road, and missing a starter. This would be an upset win, if it happens... and I hope it does.

I will be very interested to see how the minutes work out for that game. In the last game between these two teams, the Suns starters played the Lakers starters even. But Kobe, Odom, and Bynum each played 41 minutes, and they crushed the Suns' bench during their extended time. I wonder if D'Antoni will pull out all the stops playing-time wise to get the win?

The Suns have to pull all stops and treat this like a playoff game. They cannot afford to give a 3-0 advantage to the Lakers because they could be in a tie breaker situation. In the first two games the Suns were blown away. They cannot afford to play like that again. This is a whole different Lakers team from last year.
Everybody from the Suns will have to step up to have a chance to beat the Lakers in LA.

Right now I think the Lakers are right up there with SA and Dallas. Last night the Mavs beat the Clips by just one point on Stackhouse's last minute shot. So the Clips will challenge the Suns too. My guess is the Suns won't put everything into the Clippers game (hence risk the loss), then come back two days later and play hard against the Lakers, but will that be enough? I am worried about the Kobe-Bynum combination.

[AlanS]

I can sort of see where you're coming from. We can assume that D'Antoni doesn't think Alando's ready to contribute. Problem is, we have some small amount of evidence he is, and proof the Pike has nothing left in the tank. Truthfully, I can't possibly see how Tucker could hurt us more when he's on the court than Pike already does.

If Kerr went to D'Antoni, it would be more along the lines of "Mike, I know you really like Pike's attitude and work ethic, but he's killing us out there when you play him. Throw Tucker in there for a game or two where you would have played Eric, and see what happens. If we're down to playing Pike, it probably means so many starters are hurt that we're not in a great position to win anyway."

You are correct though if you make the assumption that Mike D is a perfect evaluator of talent and fit, and that Mike D knows with 100% accuracy there is a zero percent chance, with no variance, that Alando could be any better than Pike when he actually gets real minutes. Which is why I (very respectfully) disagree.

Haha... D'Antoni likes Pike's attitude and work ethic? You were probably being serious, but somehow that strikes me as funny.

Just a few additional comments:

- We keep talking about all of this being D'Antoni's decision. I am quite sure that D'Antoni, the other coaches, and Kerr talk about this stuff a lot. Sarver strikes me as a hands off owner (as long as his budget targets are met), but I'm sure he asks at least asks questions as to why things happen. I do recall that he went to the Summer Leagues to see the Suns' team play. Point is, I'm sure that the all of the Suns' braintrust has talked about what to do with Tuck and Straw. I don't think it's solely been Mike's decision... for whatever that's worth.

- One thing for sure: D'Antoni is not going to put Tucker out there to "see what happens." Maybe half a dozen folks besides you have used that kind of language to say why Tucker should play. That's not D'Antoni's approach to the game, and I don't think it should be.

If D'Antoni's gonna play Tucker or DJ during non-garbage time, he's going to do so with the intention that they can/will do the things that he wants. So... where would he play Tucker? Tuck is not a good enough 3PT shooter or ball handler to play SG. Bell plays some SF despite being 6'5, but Bell can hit 3s and he's a top defender - Tucker has none of that going for him. From what I saw in the summer league, NBA size SFs were difficult for Alando to defend. So again... where exactly does Tucker play, and what does he do while he's out there? I don't have the answer to that. And if D'Antoni doesn't have a good answer to that question, he's not going to give Alando any playing time.

- RE "If we're down to playing Pike, it probably means so many starters are hurt that we're not in a great position to win anyway." That's what garbage time is for, and DJ did get a lot of PT in the loss to the Jazz. Let's hope we see more blow-out wins than blowout losses in the future, though.

[AlanS]

The Suns have to pull all stops and treat this like a playoff game. They cannot afford to give a 3-0 advantage to the Lakers because they could be in a tie breaker situation. In the first two games the Suns were blown away. They cannot afford to play like that again. This is a whole different Lakers team from last year.

My guess is the Suns won't put everything into the Clippers game (hence risk the loss), then come back two days later and play hard against the Lakers, but will that be enough? I am worried about the Kobe-Bynum combination.

Hmmm... I'm not sure that I get the rationale for the Suns risking a loss to the Clippers. If the Suns really are worried about a tie-breaker, the best approach is to try to win more games than the Lakers - so every game is a must win in that context.

Anyway, the LAC/LAL games are not b2b games, and no travel is needed between games. I think the Suns can use as much energy as needed to play the Clips, and still be replenished and ready to face the Lakers.

[Indy]

What's happened to Raja's shooting? Has he become this year's version of Jim Jackson?

I feel like it is not Jim Jackson, but Dan all over again. The guy is our heart and soul on the floor, giving up his body for defense, can hit almost any shot beyond the arc that we need, and plays as many minutes as anyone in the league. That lasts a few seasons, then BAM, the guy can't hit a shot to save his life. I think we burned him out pretty quickly. His nagging injuries are reminiscent too. Not much that keeps him out of games, but enough to make him feel a little off. I little off from 6 feet out is a lot different that a little off from 23 feet out.

[AlanS]

NEW YORK (AP) Zach Randolph had 25 points and eight rebounds, and the New York Knicks rolled to an 89-65 victory over the weary Pistons on Sunday night.

With the Pistons playing the finale of a four-game, five-night road trip and coming off a 103-100 overtime victory in Charlotte on Saturday, the Knicks rolled to their most lopsided victory of the season, giving coach Isiah Thomas a rare easy night -- against his former team, no less.

Detroit needed a three-point play by Amir Johnson to avoid finishing with the lowest point total in franchise history. The Pistons shot 30.7 percent (23-of-75), matching the NBA low for field goals made in a game this season. Leading scorer Richard Hamilton was 1-of-7 and was held to a season-low three points. Tayshaun Prince missed all 10 shots and was scoreless, and Rasheed Wallace had six points on 3-of-9 shooting.

Playing without point guard Stephon Marbury, the Knicks snapped a two-game skid and won for just the second time in 11 games. Marbury was out with a sore left ankle.

---

So which is worse: the Suns' 4th game in 5 nights loss to the T-wolves, or the Pistons' 4th game in 5 nights loss to the Knicks?

PS: This is a rhetorical question.

[ShelC]

Marbury was out with a sore left ankle.

Correction: Marbury was out with a bruised ego.

[INFORMER]

Uh, didn't Raja just go 6-11 from 3-point range a couple of games ago? Why are we talking about him like he's done?

AlanS: Sorry but I think you are making a lot of assumptions and complicating things, perhaps unintentionally, to mask the simple truth: Eric Piatkowski shouldn't be in the NBA. You can talk about all of Tucker's weaknesses all you want, but at the end of the day, he has a better chance to contribute than Pike. Coach doesn't play him because he's a rookie and he just doesn't trust him. But as bad as Marcus Banks, Boris Diaw, and Eric Piatkowski have played when giving meaningful minutes, I highly doubt that giving Tucker and/or Strawberry a chance will lead to basketball apocalypse that you infer when you start picking apart what Tucker can or cannot do on the court.

[INFORMER]

So which is worse: the Suns' 4th game in 5 nights loss to the T-wolves, or the Pistons' 4th game in 5 nights loss to the Knicks?

PS: This is a rhetorical question.


I'll ignore the last part of that post and answer the question: The Pistons' loss.

[cap]

I hope the Guys use the Thurs game in LAL as a STATEMENT GAME. Everyone is slurping the Lakers so Hard. JVG says there the team to beat...Collins,JVG,Jackson have all said they'd take them over Phoenix in a 7 game Series and everyone is saying PJ for C.O.Y. and Kupcheck for GM Of the Yr.

Like to see us come out and just really try tp stick it tot hem the last few times we played them its just been to comfy...Raja Helping Kobe up? a lot of laughing going on between Amare and Marion with Kobe(They r U.S.A. Teammates I understand that) Diaw and Turiaf Making Dates after the game.



Amen. I think this is a make or break movie for D'A, assuming everyone but Hill is back. Diaw is there and SHOULD be able to pick it up for Grant, hopefully everyone else is over the flu, etc. If we're out of our funk, this is the game to show it...and to NOT vs. this team of all...well, I think that is saying something too...but it wouldn't be good. I REALLY pray/hope/etc. that Mike and the team turn a corner here...time to make a stand and a statement.

VT


I agree with VT. This is our biggest game of the season so far, even if Hill is out. Win or lose, this game says a lot about us, especially if it’s not close.

And the reason everyone is slurping the Lakers is because the Lakers have earned it. They’re the best team in the West so far.

[JediSkywalker]

I hope the Guys use the Thurs game in LAL as a STATEMENT GAME. Everyone is slurping the Lakers so Hard. JVG says there the team to beat...Collins,JVG,Jackson have all said they'd take them over Phoenix in a 7 game Series and everyone is saying PJ for C.O.Y. and Kupcheck for GM Of the Yr.

Like to see us come out and just really try tp stick it tot hem the last few times we played them its just been to comfy...Raja Helping Kobe up? a lot of laughing going on between Amare and Marion with Kobe(They r U.S.A. Teammates I understand that) Diaw and Turiaf Making Dates after the game.



Amen. I think this is a make or break movie for D'A, assuming everyone but Hill is back. Diaw is there and SHOULD be able to pick it up for Grant, hopefully everyone else is over the flu, etc. If we're out of our funk, this is the game to show it...and to NOT vs. this team of all...well, I think that is saying something too...but it wouldn't be good. I REALLY pray/hope/etc. that Mike and the team turn a corner here...time to make a stand and a statement.

VT


I agree with VT. This is our biggest game of the season so far, even if Hill is out. Win or lose, this game says a lot about us, especially if it’s not close.

And the reason everyone is slurping the Lakers is because the Lakers have earned it. They’re the best team in the West so far.


The Lakers have played very well this season, but best team in the west? That's a bit too much.

The Lakers survived against the Memphis Grizzlys tonight by ONE point! Last night the Mavs survived against the Clippers by ONE point. The Suns have no luck at all. They will need to take control of the game early and win. Losing is not an option against the Lakers.

[Shabazz]

Don't know if anyone saw the Lakers game, but the refs absolutely robbed the Grizzlies. In a tie game with 15 or so seconds left Kwame Brown missed a dunk and the refs called a foul where there was minimal contact Then with about 3 seconds left and the Grizzlies down by one, Kyle Lowry drove, got clobbered by Brown (at least as much contact as the play before) and there was no call. Game over. Even the lakers announcers were complaining that there should have been a call and they're pretty big homers.

It does look like Bynum could be out a little while though. Get those asterisks read for Thurday night's game.

[ShelC]

The Lakers are pretenders.

[Xcon]

Uh, didn't Raja just go 6-11 from 3-point range a couple of games ago? Why are we talking about him like he's done?
.

So you think there hasn't been a big drop-off in his offensive efficiency? Looks at his %'s, outside of freethrows they're dropped quite a bit this year. Used to be that when he took a three I expected it to go in. Now, I expect it to hit the front of the rim.

[JediSkywalker]

Don't know if anyone saw the Lakers game, but the refs absolutely robbed the Grizzlies. In a tie game with 15 or so seconds left Kwame Brown missed a dunk and the refs called a foul where there was minimal contact Then with about 3 seconds left and the Grizzlies down by one, Kyle Lowry drove, got clobbered by Brown (at least as much contact as the play before) and there was no call. Game over. Even the lakers announcers were complaining that there should have been a call and they're pretty big homers.

It does look like Bynum could be out a little while though. Get those asterisks read for Thurday night's game.


I did not see the game, but I am not surprised. The Suns can expect a similar treatment when they play in LA. They will have to absolutely dominate the game and not leave it in the hands of the refs. A close game will go the Lakers' way.

I wish Bynum was not injured. I want to see the Suns beat a healthy Lakers team. Of course, with Grant Hill's absence we can argue that it's even.

[JediSkywalker]

Uh, didn't Raja just go 6-11 from 3-point range a couple of games ago? Why are we talking about him like he's done?
.

So you think there hasn't been a big drop-off in his offensive efficiency? Looks at his %'s, outside of freethrows they're dropped quite a bit this year. Used to be that when he took a three I expected it to go in. Now, I expect it to hit the front of the rim.


Raja has been inconsistent this season, mainly due to injuries. I have seen him hesitate and not take an open 3 at times. He did have one or two good shooting games, so he must be physically capable. He has just not found his rhythm yet. This is still January and he has enough time to catch up. He is still valuable as a defender.

[AlanS]

Uh, didn't Raja just go 6-11 from 3-point range a couple of games ago? Why are we talking about him like he's done?

AlanS: Sorry but I think you are making a lot of assumptions and complicating things, perhaps unintentionally, to mask the simple truth: Eric Piatkowski shouldn't be in the NBA.

Hey wait a minute! I already said, Piatkowski sucks. Don't interpret what I'm saying to be a defense of Piatkowski.


You can talk about all of Tucker's weaknesses all you want, but at the end of the day, he has a better chance to contribute than Pike. Coach doesn't play him because he's a rookie and he just doesn't trust him. But as bad as Marcus Banks, Boris Diaw, and Eric Piatkowski have played when giving meaningful minutes, I highly doubt that giving Tucker and/or Strawberry a chance will lead to basketball apocalypse that you infer when you start picking apart what Tucker can or cannot do on the court.

We both agree that D'Antoni doesn't trust the rooks. But the question I ask is, why should he? Banks and Pike do play poorly - and that's the reason why Pike only plays when it's garbage time; and that's why Banks has hardly seen the light of day. Boris, as bad as he's played, does have a track record of past success, and he's one of the few "bigs" the Suns have. It would be a stretch to say D'Antoni is happy with these guys' play. But they are vets, they know the league, etc.

I asked earlier: if you put Tucker in... what does he "do"? Just stand around and take up space? What is his role? He's too small to be a SF, he lacks the shooting and ball handling skills to be a guard... so if you put him in, what does he do? The argument that he can't do any worse or has a better chance to contribute... what basis is there for saying that?

Same thing with DJ. He can't shoot, he can't finish. Although he has played PG, he is not a great passer or playmaker. So if you put him in, what does he do?

Like I said before - if these two were lottery level talents, then heck yeah they should play. But they are not. When I ask people to tell me what these guys can do for this team, nobody has an answer, except, let's put the rooks out there just see how they do. I'm just not feeling that.

[AlanS]

Marbury was out with a sore left ankle.

Correction: Marbury was out with a bruised ego.

Hmmmm... Marbury could be out for a while then.

[jkalldaway]

Uh, didn't Raja just go 6-11 from 3-point range a couple of games ago? Why are we talking about him like he's done?

AlanS: Sorry but I think you are making a lot of assumptions and complicating things, perhaps unintentionally, to mask the simple truth: Eric Piatkowski shouldn't be in the NBA.

Hey wait a minute! I already said, Piatkowski sucks. Don't interpret what I'm saying to be a defense of Piatkowski.


You can talk about all of Tucker's weaknesses all you want, but at the end of the day, he has a better chance to contribute than Pike. Coach doesn't play him because he's a rookie and he just doesn't trust him. But as bad as Marcus Banks, Boris Diaw, and Eric Piatkowski have played when giving meaningful minutes, I highly doubt that giving Tucker and/or Strawberry a chance will lead to basketball apocalypse that you infer when you start picking apart what Tucker can or cannot do on the court.We both agree that D'Antoni doesn't trust the rooks. But the question I ask is, why should he? Banks and Pike do play poorly - and that's the reason why Pike only plays when it's garbage time; and that's why Banks has hardly seen the light of day. Boris, as bad as he's played, does have a track record of past success, and he's one of the few "bigs" the Suns have. It would be a stretch to say D'Antoni is happy with these guys' play. But they are vets, they know the league, etc.

I asked earlier: if you put Tucker in... what does he "do"? Just stand around and take up space? What is his role? He's too small to be a SF, he lacks the shooting and ball handling skills to be a guard... so if you put him in, what does he do? The argument that he can't do any worse or has a better chance to contribute... what basis is there for saying that?

Same thing with DJ. He can't shoot, he can't finish. Although he has played PG, he is not a great passer or playmaker. So if you put him in, what does he do?

Like I said before - if these two were lottery level talents, then heck yeah they should play. But they are not. When I ask people to tell me what these guys can do for this team, nobody has an answer, except, let's put the rooks out there just see how they do. I'm just not feeling that.

Alan I totally disagree. You ask, "what would they do?" Well, why is it that you seem to know what they would do without actually seeing it? The only viable evidence is what they have done in the D league and, well, they have torn it up. You claim DJ isn't a great passer but I beg to differ based on what I saw in Utah. He has vision, way more than Pike or Banks. In fact, there were a couple of passes that bounced off of some teammates hands simply because they weren't ready for the pass. If nothing else they would inject an energy that has rarely been seen this year. You ask "what would they do" while I suggest that we find out.

[jkalldaway]

Lakers' Bynum Injures Knee, Ankle; MRI Scheduled For Monday January 13, 2008 - 11:43 pm http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpgyahoo.com -
Lakers (http://lakers.realgm.com/) center Andrew Bynum (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/1090/andrew_bynum/) injured his left knee and ankle in the third quarter of Sunday's game against the Grizzlies (http://grizzlies.realgm.com/) and had to be assisted off the floor.

With just under nine minutes left in the third, Bynum went up for a rebound. As he came down, his left foot landed on top of teammate Lamar Odom (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/38/lamar_odom/)'s foot, causing his left knee and ankle to turn awkwardly.

Bynum laid on the floor for a short while before leaving the court with the help of team's training staff. He will not return and is scheduled to undergo an MRI on Monday. [READ] (javascript:rgmow('/rgmow.php?aid=50283','50283'))

[AlanS]

Western Conference Top teams:

Dallas 26-11
Phoenix 26-11
LAL 25-11
San Antonio 24-11
New orleans 25-12
Denver 22-13
Portland 22-14
Golden State 22-16 (21-11 with Steve Jackson)
---
Utah 21-17
Houston 20-18


With so much parity right now, I think injuries will be decisive. It will be interesting to see how/if the Suns can survive without Grant Hill.

[jkalldaway]

Can we talk about how ridiculous this dunk was last night. It might be one of my all-time Amare faves. http://youtube.com/watch?v=DnW144eJJSY

[jkalldaway]

Western Conference Top teams:

Dallas 26-11
Phoenix 26-11
LAL 25-11
San Antonio 24-11
New orleans 25-12
Denver 22-13
Portland 22-14
Golden State 22-16 (21-11 with Steve Jackson)
---
Utah 21-17
Houston 20-18


With so much parity right now, I think injuries will be decisive. It will be interesting to see how/if the Suns can survive without Grant Hill.

I agree. I think we will be fine without Hill do to the schedule. In fact, I'm happy he gets a bit of a break. As for the Lakers, if Bynum goes out I think they would suffer.

[frezix]

that was a pretty nice dunk

[AlanS]

Alan I totally disagree. You ask, "what would they do?" Well, why is it that you seem to know what they would do without actually seeing it? The only viable evidence is what they have done in the D league and, well, they have torn it up. You claim DJ isn't a great passer but I beg to differ based on what I saw in Utah. He has vision, way more than Pike or Banks. In fact, there were a couple of passes that bounced off of some teammates hands simply because they weren't ready for the pass. If nothing else they would inject an energy that has rarely been seen this year. You ask "what would they do" while I suggest that we find out.

The D-league numbers for these two are ABSOLUTELY NOT viable evidence of what they can do. I saw the D-League game where Tucker scored 40 pts. There is a reason that all these D-League guys are not in the NBA: lack of talent on offense, defense, everything. The D-League stats for Tuck and Straw IN NO WAY indicate what they can contribute to this team. Even if you disagree with me on all else, trust me on this point.

My viable evidence is looking at what they were like in college, in their last full season of basketball. All of the pre-draft scouting reports say just about the same thing about these two. I don't see why those reports should be disregarded now... it seems to me people are turning a blind eye to these guys' weaknesses because they are so hungry to see them play.

Like I said earlier, maybe by some miracle they've overcome all of those issues since they were drafted... but I'm not ready to believe in miracles yet.

Regarding DJ in Utah: yes, DJ looked good in garbage time. But check out Marks' numbers; they were good too. Will you ask for more minutes for Marks based on his quality garbage time outing too?

At best... at best... we have a tie: noone can say with absolute certainty that the rooks aren't ready to contribute (although the book on them coming out of college would indicate they probably aren't); and noone can say with absolute certainty that the rooks are ready to contribute (save for for very misleading stats rom the D-League). Given that, I think the guys who see these players up close - the coaches, the GM - they're the ones who know for sure. I am going to trust their judgement on this one. Just my opinion, I know most people disagree.

[jkalldaway]

Alan, I respect your opinion. With that said, I have to say that you are really selling these kids short. I agree with your assessment of Tucker but I am a big DJ fan. Sure Marks' numbers were good, but it's not the numbers that I am equating to DJ's potential play. It is how he played the game. He was calm, he came right out and hit a three. He hit a pull up. He was looking for his teammates. He was everything we need in a backup point guard. While I agree that there is a reason why guys are in the D league, there is also a reason why Tucker and DJ have guaranteed deals and those guys don't. Sure DJ has weaknesses, most late picks do, but I feel his strong points (defense, athleticism, vision) will help this team come playoff time more so than Banks (who will be benched by then anyways). Am I 100 percent certain? No I am not, but there is only one way to find out.

[Shabazz]

Alan, I think you're arguing about something different entirely. What most people here are saying is that we know for certain that Pike can NOT contribute. I agree that he's a good locker room guy, and from my perspective that's the reason he's getting minutes, as a reward for not complaining about getting no PT.

I happen to think that $1M per year to practice with the Suns when he was about to retire is enough of a reward.

The argument here isn't whether DJ and Tucker can or can not contribute. None of us really know for certain. What we do know is that in the limited minutes each has had they've shown the ability to contribute more than Pike. And yes, I'd rather Marks get time over Pike. At least we get some size in the game.

I'd say that the best case scenario for a pike game is he goes 2-4 on 3s. However, he's also about as valuable on defense as a chair. At least DJ and Alando bring some athleticism and speed to the lineup so they can fill the lanes on the break. Plus, both shot the ball reasonably well when they played and we know DJ's defense is NBA ready.

I honestly believe that had we brought in DJ in the Utah game, we could have hung with them a little longer and possibly even won.

The big question here isn't what flaws coach sees in DJ or Alando. It's what the hell he sees in Pike.

[Mori_Chu]

And the reason everyone is slurping the Lakers is because the Lakers have earned it. They’re the best team in the West so far.

BS. The Suns, Mavs, and Spurs are at least as good as the Lakers so far this year. I'll give LA all the credit they deserve for being so good thus far (and in the Predictions thread, I believe I called that they wouldn't trade Kobe and that they would be good this season). But they are in no way shape or form the best team in the West this year. That title really hasn't been claimed by anyone yet, though I share my original opinion that the Mavs will be the ones to eventually claim it.


I asked earlier: if you put Tucker in... what does he "do"? Just stand around and take up space? What is his role?

The guy has gaps and flaws in his game, but he is a talented scorer. He is able to post up and get inside for buckets. I've seen a few games (REAL Suns regular season games) where Tucker got a few minutes and quickly scored a few baskets. This doesn't necessarily mean we should be playing him a bunch, but I think he has potential. I'm glad the D-League exists as a place for these guys to stay sharp and at least build some confidence by putting up big numbers.

[sunsdotcom]

BS. The Suns, Mavs, and Spurs are at least as good as the Lakers so far this year. I'll give LA all the credit they deserve for being so good thus far (and in the Predictions thread, I believe I called that they wouldn't trade Kobe and that they would be good this season). But they are in no way shape or form the best team in the West this year. That title really hasn't been claimed by anyone yet, though I share my original opinion that the Mavs will be the ones to eventually claim it.

the mavs are good, but the suns i think can handle them. spurs and the lakers are the ones to beat in the west.

[LU]

This discussion about Tucker and DJ reminds me of all the "teams should play more Italian youngsters" discussions we have here. We all love to see fresh faces and tend to magnify anything they do (wow, it was a good pass, he took a rebound, he was brave enough to take a shot...), but I'd like to quote what an Italian coach who works with youth teams said this week. The Virtus Bologna team was so depleted due to injuries that was forced to play youngsters, even in the Euroleague (they lost, of course). Their coach with the youth team, instead of bragging, said "Don't be fooled: playing in garbage time or even during the game with no pressure whatsoever, is no way close to playing a couple of minutes as a regular sub. They all have a long way to go before being solid contributors..."
Replace youth teams with D-League and you have the same exact situation. I have a pragmatic attitude: no coach is stupid enough to keep on the bench a guy who can contribute (and save his own job). That doesn't mean they won't be ready. but honestly I think DJ has more chances than Tucker (who would probably be more suitable to play in Europe, instead)

PS: D- league sucks. I have never watched a single game but the "regular" D- leaguers (not players sent there for a limited period by an NBA team) who came to play in Italy this season have been handed a one-way ticket to the US (or the farthest possible place) after a month or two (and most of them had a bad play ethic too)

[sunsdotcom]

BS. The Suns, Mavs, and Spurs are at least as good as the Lakers so far this year. I'll give LA all the credit they deserve for being so good thus far (and in the Predictions thread, I believe I called that they wouldn't trade Kobe and that they would be good this season). But they are in no way shape or form the best team in the West this year. That title really hasn't been claimed by anyone yet, though I share my original opinion that the Mavs will be the ones to eventually claim it.

the mavs are good, but the suns i think can handle them. spurs and the lakers are the ones to beat in the west.

here's the reason why i think the mavs should be less of a problem for us than the spurs or LA... the mavs don't have any low post scoring big man inside that can get amare in foul trouble. the lakers (bynum) and spurs (duncan) do. dallas is a perimeter shooting team and their best big player is a jumpshooter. amare doesn't have to guard dirk; we can assign marion, hill or diaw for that purpose. we're don't have to double anybody inside.

that's why i don't mind the suns meeting the mavs in the WCSF.

[cap]

And the reason everyone is slurping the Lakers is because the Lakers have earned it. They’re the best team in the West so far.


The Lakers have played very well this season, but best team in the west? That's a bit too much.

The Lakers survived against the Memphis Grizzlys tonight by ONE point!

An aberration. They actually have the highest scoring differential in the west. Including a 14.0 differential against us.

[jkalldaway]

That 14.0 is a bit skewed after Nov.2 don't you think?

[cap]

They still beat us comfortably the second time around.

[sunsdotcom]

the reason why dallas is a very good team is that they can defend the interior very well and their offense is very potent. that's why they can do well vs. the spurs. but one thing they don't have is inside scoring.

the lakers are a different team from last year because a) they're healthy b) bynum

they have size and quickness that can give us plenty of problems. odom can score easily vs marion. bynum the same vs amare.

[ShelC]

Dotn overlook Derek Fisher starting at the point. Hes that steady, veteran presence they've lacked since he left. He keeps things together on the floor.

but one thing they don't have is inside scoring.

Brandon Bass has helped in that area. Hes a true force in the paint because of his strength and wide body. Teams have found roles for those 6-7, 6-8 260lb bangers. Craig Smith, Paul Milsapp, Bass, Maxiell, Diogu. 4-5 years ago those guys were seen as tweeners too small to play in the paint. Now theyve got legit roles on teams cuz youre not always going to find that stud 6-10 240 PF that does everything. But because those guys have been smaller paint players their entire playing careers, they know they have to work that much hard on their skills to make it.

We should take heed.

[sunsdotcom]

but one thing they don't have is inside scoring.

Brandon Bass has helped in that area. Hes a true force in the paint because of his strength and wide body.



but he's not of the same caliber as bynum or duncan. i don't think you're gonna see amare sweating bullets trying to defend him.

[ShelC]

Maybe not Amare, but Bass is the type of banger that gives Shawns problem at the 4. Not everyone has to be a starter or in the same class as Bynum or Duncan. But theyre role players who can come off the bench at any given time and give their team a boost, catch the other team off guard, do the dirty work. You need guys like that.

[sunsdotcom]

Maybe not Amare, but Bass is the type of banger that gives Shawns problem at the 4.

shawn is usually assigned to hound dirk. it's more likely that diaw will be assigned to guard this guy since both come off the bench. i think diaw can do a good job vs. him.

[sunsdotcom]

but to call bass an inside low post threat is stretching it a bit. he may be able to score some inside, but i still would rather face dallas than SA or LA.

[AlanS]

Ok, my last post on the rookies thing... for a week or so, maybe. I will let others have the last word.

Alan, I think you're arguing about something different entirely. What most people here are saying is that we know for certain that Pike can NOT contribute. I agree that he's a good locker room guy, and from my perspective that's the reason he's getting minutes, as a reward for not complaining about getting no PT... The big question here isn't what flaws coach sees in DJ or Alando. It's what the hell he sees in Pike.

I can answer that: he sees NOTHING in Pike. NOTHING. We already know this; why is this something to argue about? As said numerous times: Piatkowski is a practice/garbage time player. That is his role. What more is there to say?

Somebody earlier said that Pike is "taking away development time from the rookies." How? If not for injuries or blowouts, he'd never see the light of day. Piatkowski has appeared in just 9 of 37 (1 out of every 4) Suns games. And in those games, he's averaging 8 or so minutes a game. How can Pike be taking minutes away from the rookies, when he hardly ever plays in the first place?

As for the small number of minutes he does get: he is a player on this team, coach should find some way to get him minutes somewhere. Remember, Alando and DJ are doing D-League time, where each is averaging 35-40 minutes per game. If Piatkowski doesn't play any minutes, then his game will get stale and rusty, and he'll really be useless when he might be needed in case of injuries - which is about where he is now.

Bottom line is, Pike is a just a bit player doing bit player time. The implied comments that somehow D'Antoni "likes" Pike or "rewards" him is not at all backed up by the fact of his very limited minutes and very limited role.

The argument here isn't whether DJ and Tucker can or can not contribute. None of us really know for certain.

Well, that IS my argument. Look, if nobody knows for certain that these guys can or can't contribute, then why are people so passionate about giving these guys minutes? It's like saying, well, we don't know if this new doctor is any good or not, but it's exciting to have a new guy here... let's have him do brain surgery on the next patient, and see how well he does!

OK, it's not that bad... but maybe you get where I'm coming from. Like I've said numerous times: if DJ or Alando were impact player type lottery picks, and weren't getting a chance, I'd be upset. But the scouting reports on these guys are clear, they have a lot of work to do on their games.

What flusters me is, when I ask people what exactly can these guys do, and the answer is, "who knows, but they're better than Pike." That's not an answer to the question! If these guys are gonna play, their roles need to be established. Are they going to be spot up shooters from the arc? Will they be playmakers? Are they expected to be top notch scorers? Do plays need to be designed for them? What adjustments, if any, need to be made to accommodate these guys' talents, or lack thereof?

As fans, guys can take the approach, well I don't know, but we should just play these guys and see what happens. But as a professional coach, those are questions that D'Antoni MUST answer. And if the answers are not there, then the rooks don't play. It's that simple to me. I know people disagree with that, but, that's how I see it.

[Mori_Chu]

i still would rather face dallas than SA or LA.

I'd take the Lakers in a series before the Mavs any day. I'm also not very scared of the Nuggets, Warriors, Hornets, or Jazz. New Orleans is the best of those teams, but I think they're too young to beat us in a series. The Warriors don't scare me as much now that they lost Richardson. They just seem more beatable this year.

[Wormwood]

Well, that IS my argument. Look, if nobody knows for certain that these guys can or can't contribute, then why are people so passionate about giving these guys minutes? It's like saying, well, we don't know if this new doctor is any good or not, but it's exciting to have a new guy here... let's have him do brain surgery on the next patient, and see how well he does!

I'd say it's like having to choose between brain surgeons, where one of them has gone into the OR 7 times and left his patient a drooling paraplegic vegetable every one of them, or I can go with the guy who's only done it as a med student, but he did it very well under supervision. I'd go with the guy whom I thought at least had a small chance of not giving me the Terry Chiavo ending.


What flusters me is, when I ask people what exactly can these guys do, and the answer is, "who knows, but they're better than Pike." That's not an answer to the question! If these guys are gonna play, their roles need to be established. Are they going to be spot up shooters from the arc? Will they be playmakers? Are they expected to be top notch scorers? Do plays need to be designed for them? What adjustments, if any, need to be made to accommodate these guys' talents, or lack thereof?

I guarantee you, either could hustle, play defense, rebound, run the break, and in Alando's case finish around the basket better than Pike. Given minutes, I could see Alando filling a lot of Hill's role as a scorer who can get to the basket, get out on the break and finish, hit the mid-range (although Alando needs to be a little closer than Hill), and hit the three from the corner. With DJ, I could easily filling in a role as a back-up for Bell. Same body type, grit, and defensive style.

As for adjustments, D'Antoni's always harping on how winning depends on energy and hustle. I don't quite see how Pike can bring that to the table.

We're not asking that they get regular minutes, but the consensus is that if there's minutes available and there's a choice, we should go with Tucker and DJ over pike, since Pike has had his chance, and has shown he really can't help us.

[sunsdotcom]

I'd take the Lakers in a series before the Mavs any day.

it's too bad bynum got injured and will miss 2 months. it's going to be tough to gauge our performance against the lakers without him (of course, hill is out too, but bynum causes all sorts of problems vs our frontcourt).

[ShelC]

inside low post threat

I didnt say hes an inside low post threat. Hes not a guy the mavs are going to throw the ball to in the low post looking for a score. But he can crash the boards and use his muscle to get putbacks or at least get fouled going up. Thats something theyve never really had, even with Dampier or Diop. And thats the kind of player than can give Shawn a hard time. A bigger, stronger, banging, rebounding 4.

[sunsdotcom]

I didnt say hes an inside low post threat. Hes not a guy the mavs are going to throw the ball to in the low post looking for a score. But he can crash the boards and use his muscle to get putbacks or at least get fouled going up. Thats something theyve never really had, even with Dampier or Diop.

arent diop and damp's game re putbacks and crashing the boards too? bass is just quicker and more aggressive, although he's shorter.

[ShelC]

Exactly. Hes a wide body 4. Amare can handle Damp and Diop for the most part, or we have Skinner. Shawn has to match up with bass unless we go big. So basically, shawn has to match up with bass.

[sunsdotcom]

i don't mind marion-bass as long as we don't get amare in foul trouble.

if bass is in the game, then either dirk or howard is out, yes? unless they want to play smallball too.

[INFORMER]

I'd take the Lakers in a series before the Mavs any day.

it's too bad bynum got injured and will miss 2 months. it's going to be tough to gauge our performance against the lakers without him (of course, hill is out too, but bynum causes all sorts of problems vs our frontcourt).

It pisses me off. I want the Lakers at full strength. Bynum and Fisher are the main reasons why the Lakers have been better than the Suns so far this season.

[TexSUN]

I'd take the Lakers in a series before the Mavs any day.it's too bad bynum got injured and will miss 2 months. it's going to be tough to gauge our performance against the lakers without him (of course, hill is out too, but bynum causes all sorts of problems vs our frontcourt).

It pisses me off. I want the Lakers at full strength. Bynum and Fisher are the main reasons why the Lakers have been better than the Suns so far this season.

Gotta agree with this one (despite the post I made in the other thread). I'd much rather see the two teams at full strength. Plus, I just hate the idea of a young 20-something having to go through a nasty knee injury like this, no matter who they play for (speaking as someone who knows first hand what a "subluxation of the kneecap" feels like. :( ).

But that said, time to play the hand we're dealt and lay waste to these guys.

[SwingMan]

I'd take the Lakers in a series before the Mavs any day.it's too bad bynum got injured and will miss 2 months. it's going to be tough to gauge our performance against the lakers without him (of course, hill is out too, but bynum causes all sorts of problems vs our frontcourt).

It pisses me off. I want the Lakers at full strength. Bynum and Fisher are the main reasons why the Lakers have been better than the Suns so far this season.

Gotta agree with this one (despite the post I made in the other thread). I'd much rather see the two teams at full strength. Plus, I just hate the idea of a young 20-something having to go through a nasty knee injury like this, no matter who they play for (speaking as someone who knows first hand what a "subluxation of the kneecap" feels like. :( ).

But that said, time to play the hand we're dealt and lay waste to these guys.

Tex, where the hell were you when I acually wanted to get married? :cool:

Great take - they're without Bynum, we're without 16 ppg in Hill. Where's the gripe?

[INFORMER]

Great take - they're without Bynum, we're without 16 ppg in Hill. Where's the gripe?

Bynum hurts us moreso than Hill hurts them.

[jed]

Great take - they're without Bynum, we're without 16 ppg in Hill. Where's the gripe?

Bynum hurts us moreso than Hill hurts them.

Without a doubt. It's his development that has them breathing down our necks.

[wpmiller42]

I genuinely believe that if the lakers had traded bynum for kidd last year, they would have a worse record now, and, at the very worst, we would have split our games with them so far this year.

[Indy]

Great take - they're without Bynum, we're without 16 ppg in Hill. Where's the gripe?

Bynum hurts us moreso than Hill hurts them.

Without a doubt. It's his development that has them breathing down our necks.

Word to both of you.

[SwingMan]

Look - they're missing a starter, we're missing a starter.

You 4 going to join cap in Asterisk Reasoning 101 now? :roll:

[Indy]

Hill hasn't been killing them in our games. Bynum has been killing us. It isn't the same. Yes, a win is a win, but we all know it isn't the same.

[SwingMan]

**************************** in otherwords, Indy?

:roll:

[Indy]

**************************** in otherwords, Indy?

:roll:

*:roll:




:P

[SwingMan]

Just as I thought.

Join cap in the brooder's lounge then.....

[Indy]

I actually have no idea what you are talking about RE: the *.

[SwingMan]

Ask cap. He's taken to putting "*" 's on every win this season when an opposing key player is down - whether we're healthy or not.

[wpmiller42]

I think beating the lakers without bynum does not diminish the win at all. kobe will probably jack up 40 shots, get all the attention from the refs, while kwame and turiaf will probably contribute a little more than usual due to our lack of size. So we still have to overcome all that to get a win.

Plus, while bynum's play in the first two games we have played them was great, he wasn't the reason we lost. We've had our own injury problems, and as far as I'm concerned, Boris has been out all season until last game. Honestly, if Boris had played with 50% of the energy he played with yesterday on Christmas, we would have won that game.

[Indy]

But Boris doesn't play like that often. That is like saying that if we played better, we would have won.

[JediSkywalker]

Losing Hill hurts us more than losing Bynum hurts the Lakers. Why? It's because it makes Diaw a starter and reduces the bench to LB, Skinner and Banks (if Dantoni uses him). The Lakers have a deeper bench.

[SpecialSauce]

Vash, let me just be the first to thank you for getting rid of that hideous avatar

[Andy_S]

But Boris doesn't play like that often. That is like saying that if we played better, we would have won.

But....we would have! :)

That was an awesome post, Indy. It's funny/sad because it's true.

[Mori_Chu]

Vash, let me just be the first to thank you for getting rid of that hideous avatar

And replacing it with another hideous one, LMAO. Oh well; it's a step up.

[Indy]

But Boris doesn't play like that often. That is like saying that if we played better, we would have won.

But....we would have! :)

That was an awesome post, Indy. It's funny/sad because it's true.

I just hate trying to justify losses because we would have won only if...

[SpecialSauce]

Vash, let me just be the first to thank you for getting rid of that hideous avatar

And replacing it with another hideous one, LMAO. Oh well; it's a step up.

hahahaha :mrgreen:

[JediSkywalker]

Vash, let me just be the first to thank you for getting rid of that hideous avatar

And replacing it with another hideous one, LMAO. Oh well; it's a step up.

I have seen a lot worse- yours, for example.

[Mori_Chu]

LMAO. The gloves are off!

Okay, I guess someone with a Marcus Banks avatar (I have to be the only one) should not talk crap about anyone else's. Vash, hope ya know I'm just giving you a hard time.

[JediSkywalker]

I know Mori. No problem. It's all in jest.

[desertcoast]

LMAO. The gloves are off!

Okay, I guess someone with a Marcus Banks avatar (I have to be the only one) should not talk crap about anyone else's. Vash, hope ya know I'm just giving you a hard time.

Do we need to bring up the Frank Johnson Dildo avatar?

[Mori_Chu]

Haha ... Well, we all know that the Suns org saw that, so I think I am going to take partial credit for getting 4QF canned. And we can all agree that was good for the franchise!!

[LazarusLong]

Yup, Mori, you're the sort of lovable character that keeps HR people busy ...