Game Day: Bucks @ Suns

[Superbone]

Sounds pretty likely that Marion's back. I bet Nash comes back as well (knowing what kind of competitor he is). Time to get back on track. With Nash, I think we win relatively easilly. Without him, it's a toss up. Any chance DJ plays non-garbage minutes? Probably not be we can always hope.

Go Suns

Dis∙cuss

[sunsdotcom]

i predict we win this one.

[Mori_Chu]

I'm not mad at all about the Jazz loss; it was obvious from the start that we would lose the game, and I don't care so much about moral victories, so the fact that we lost in rather pathetic fashion doesn't upset me.

But if we lose this game with most of our guys back, I'll be down about it. If we want to show that we have any business competing for the title, we should beat teams like the Bucks.

For what it's worth, I think we'll beat them handily.

[frezix]

depends if nash plays, I'm sure he will though. Please win this game...and the NBA Finals...

[JediSkywalker]

This team plays at the level of its competition, so I am not willing to predict a victory. Even if Nash is back, he is not likely 100 percent, nor would be Marion. Unless the whole team steps up, they are not going to win it.

The Suns must win this game, to maintain their shaky one game lead over the Lakers, and they have to play them next week on the road.

I am probably not going to make it to the game tonight. I have placed the ticket (lower bowl) on the Suns ticket exchange, for lower than the actual price. If someone is interested in buying, please PM me ASAP. It may take me a couple of hours to get back to you, but we may be able to negotiate the price.

[Superbone]

If I were in Phx, I'd definitely buy them from you Vash. I think we will see a spirited Suns team tonight after that lousy loss on Thursday.

[Split_T's]

This team plays at the level of its competition, so I am not willing to predict a victory. Even if Nash is back, he is not likely 100 percent, nor would be Marion. Unless the whole team steps up, they are not going to win it.


The suns have done a pretty good job of beating the bad teams this year. They have made them closer than they should be, but they do end up winning. They have 7 losses to playoff teams, 2 losses to the 9 and 10 seeds in the west(Utah and Houston) and then their two bad losses, Miami and Minnesotta. Basically, we are 10-9 against good teams(playoff teams plus utah and houston) and 15-2 against the bad teams.

Plus hasn't it been like 20 years since milwaukee beat us at home.

[Phoenix219]

10-9 against good teams, still puts us at winning more than we lose - a good thing for a 7 game series don't ya think?

[JackArse]

hopefully diaw is ok, the one thing i haven't see in the articles ripping the suns for their play on the jazz game. is that diaw's back is bothering him again.
i have back problems myself, and i know how painful it can be. for those that say they should rest, rest really doesn't do much for those type of injuries. it usualy muscle spasms, you can rest it for a year, and could get triggered the first time you play, you can keep playing and it may never come back.

nash and marion though are key tonight. even if we only had nash back, and marion sat for another game, i think we can still win. will be interesting to actually watch ji for a game though.

[JediSkywalker]

This team plays at the level of its competition, so I am not willing to predict a victory. Even if Nash is back, he is not likely 100 percent, nor would be Marion. Unless the whole team steps up, they are not going to win it.


The suns have done a pretty good job of beating the bad teams this year. They have made them closer than they should be, but they do end up winning. They have 7 losses to playoff teams, 2 losses to the 9 and 10 seeds in the west(Utah and Houston) and then their two bad losses, Miami and Minnesotta. Basically, we are 10-9 against good teams(playoff teams plus utah and houston) and 15-2 against the bad teams.

Plus hasn't it been like 20 years since milwaukee beat us at home.

Good numbers.

Milwaukee had won 3 in a row before they lost to LAL by just 5 points. So I think they are on the rise. The Suns better be ready.

Diaw had a back problem last year too. May be some of his nonaggressive play can be attributed to that (but not all of it).

[Ring_Wanted]

I don't think so NVF. It's in his head, not in his back.

[JackArse]

NSV - i think maybe for the last game, since that's the first i had heard of it. and usually when he starts is when he gets more aggressive on his own.

so.. who knows.

[ShelC]

I think we'll win tonight. The question is how difficult we'll make it for ourselves. I'd actually like our chances even if Stevie took another game off.

[BobbyDogg]

Suns have taken a beating lately in the media and I'm sure they are motivated by the loss to Utah, albeit an expected loss.

They'll win this one.

Go Suns

[JediSkywalker]

If I were in Phx, I'd definitely buy them from you Vash. I think we will see a spirited Suns team tonight after that lousy loss on Thursday.

I hope you are right. I finally decided to go to the game because I could not sell the ticket. I really wanted to watch the Jags beat the Pats tonight. I can catch part of the action at the arena, but just a few minutes at a time. I am taping that game, however, just in case that scenario comes to life.

I will be cheering for the Suns as loud as I can. I hope Nash can play, but if he is even slightly unwell, I think he should take the night off.

[JediSkywalker]

Suns have taken a beating lately in the media and I'm sure they are motivated by the loss to Utah, albeit an expected loss.

They'll win this one.

Go Suns


Interestingly, Doug & Wolf on KTAR think that's what the Suns need- a beating in the media. It may put a chip on their shoulder.

[Xcon]

They've been beat up in the media all season and it hasn't seemed to make much difference. I still feel something off with this team, but I can't pin point it. Just seems like the magic from the previous seasons is gone. If you know what i mean. Just can't put my finger on it.

[JediSkywalker]

May be it was the way last season ended for them. They may still be carrying that, but they really have to put it behind them if they want any chance of making it this year.

[duck44]

10-9 against good teams, still puts us at winning more than we lose - a good thing for a 7 game series don't ya think?

The thing is those bad teams won`t be in the playoffs.

[duck44]

Suns have taken a beating lately in the media and I'm sure they are motivated by the loss to Utah, albeit an expected loss.

They'll win this one.

Go Suns


Interestingly, Doug & Wolf on KTAR think that's what the Suns need- a beating in the media. It may put a chip on their shoulder.

All they have to do is read this board. Win or lose they take a serious beating every day!

[scosuns]

The Suns beat the bad teams. I think if Marion and Nash play, I think we have a decent shot. I also hope DJ gets some minutes. He played well in his garbage time and I would like to see him rewarded.

[ShelC]

Turned on the radio feed and i hear Skinner saves it to Barbosa, missed 3 tipped in by Boris. Then a rebound by Boris, outlet to Barbosa for the dish to Banks for a lay-in.

Bucks are knockin down 3s tho, 6-9 so far with CBell and Redd 2-3 a piece. Gotta get out on those shooters and run them off the line.

Boris so far in the starting lineup has 6-5-2 in the 1st half. Vintage Boris!

[scosuns]

Can Mike put in a fresh body? How about putting in DJ for Bell? This team needs something.

[BobbyDogg]

Suns have taken a beating lately in the media and I'm sure they are motivated by the loss to Utah, albeit an expected loss.

They'll win this one.

Go Suns


Interestingly, Doug & Wolf on KTAR think that's what the Suns need- a beating in the media. It may put a chip on their shoulder.

All they have to do is read this board. Win or lose they take a serious beating every day!

Is that going to accompany every comment from you duck?
Yeah, this board is the ONLY place where the Suns get criticized when they just don't deserve it. I mean, just look at their record.... :roll:
That's what this board is for, to discuss the team, good or bad. Move on already.

On the game so far, the Bucks seem to be happy just shooting threes and they're hitting them so far. I don't think it will last the whole game but if the Suns stay home and guard man-to-man instead of switching and collapsing, they could shut the Bucks down.

Boris is having a good game, getting to the basket and getting a couple of steals and it's nice to see Banks getting some decent minutes without slowing the team down.
Amare is a monster tonight! 16 points if the first quarter. That one-handed dunk from three feet out was sick!
Good energy.

Go Suns!

[INFORMER]

I wonder if Shawn is really OK or not.

[SwingMan]

The Bucks are getting away with a SHITLOAD of moving screens, carries and hacks - and they're hitting everything from 18' out.

At least Diaw got hooked up to a diesel battery tonight.....

[ShelC]

I guess this is what it feels like to be on the other end of 68 pts at halftime.

[SwingMan]

I guess this is what it feels like to be on the other end of 68 pts at halftime.

Well, Matrix needs to get his ass into the game as well. Just because his elbow is bum doesn't account for total lack of D - he's still got rested legs and feet for chrissakes.....

[BobbyDogg]

The Bucks are just hitting everything they put up.

The Suns played well but, true to form, they stopped going to Amare as much in that second quarter and they pulled Skinner out to early, IMO.

Shawn's arm and should must still be hurting because he's having a tough time defending the shooters so far. I hope he's ok.

[INFORMER]

I think Boris read this board after the Utah game.

[INFORMER]

Who is guarding Boris Diaw?! He's lighting the Bucks up, though Andrew Bogut is returning the favor.

[SwingMan]

I think Boris read this board after the Utah game.

Definitely looks like Doris is trying to re-claim some of his manhood tonight - or maybe he's playing this well on a Saturday at home because he knows the clubs are gonna be full of skanks wanting to jock him after a decent game? :lol:

Either way, whatever happened with him before the game, bottle it. Easily his best game of the season thus far.....

[desertcoast]

"We've secretly replaced D'Antoni's Starbucks coffee with Folger's Crystals,
and Boris Diaw's vagina with a set of balls...now let's see if anyone notices.....":razz:

[INFORMER]

Either way, whatever happened with him before the game, bottle it. Easily his best game of the season thus far.....

Maybe his best of the last two seasons.

However, Bogut has 29 points on 14/15 shooting. That's a problem.

[scosuns]

Hah. Its good to see Boris be aggressive. I just wish he would continue to do this.

[INFORMER]

And it doesn't even have to be 20+ points. 12-15 ppg, 6 or so boards, 6 assists, 48-53% shooting. That's all I ask.

[UOducks4life]

The Suns look incredible against one of the other softer teams in the league.

Still, it's January, the Suns will be in the Playoffs and the Bucks won't. The Suns get another win. How about we don't call for D'Antoni's head until he really costs the Suns a ring..?

[desertcoast]

The Suns look incredible against one of the other softer teams in the league.

Still, it's January, the Suns will be in the Playoffs and the Bucks won't. The Suns get another win. How about we don't call for D'Antoni's head until he really costs the Suns a ring..?


Shhh...it's a win. We only say nice things tonight. :wink:

[Dustbuster]

Wow, I wish that Boris could play more like that on a regular basis. He can be such an amazing player, but is perhaps more frustrating than any other Sun in recent history. Hopefully this injury to Hill gets Boris going.

Al asked him if this kind of strong offensive night is going to become the norm for him. Boris' response: "maybe". What does that mean?

[Wormwood]

Maybe that's the key to getting Boris involved... promising him a top flight "escort" after every game where he posts a positive +/-...

Maybe Boris is better as a starter and we can bring Hill off the bench.

[BobbyDogg]

"We've secretly replaced D'Antoni's Starbucks coffee with Folger's Crystals,
and Boris Diaw's vagina with a set of balls...now let's see if anyone notices.....":razz:

:lol:

[sunsdotcom]

I think Boris read this board after the Utah game.

ho ho ho... but it would have saved him a lot of grief if he read my boris thread earlier...

[ShelC]

Al asked him if this kind of strong offensive night is going to become the norm for him. Boris' response: "maybe". What does that mean?

Perhaps.

[BobbyDogg]

Suns got a little tougher on the defensive end which was good but the main thing is that they kept composer and stayed aggressive.

Bois was outstanding tonight, clearly his best game in a long time, and Nash seem to get his shooting stroke going late.

Yes, the Bucks are a losing team but the Suns took care of business. I'm really looking forward to the Laker game coming up. I'm interested to see the Amare vs Bynum thing that seems to be brewing.

[BobbyDogg]

Oh, and I give D'Antoni a little credit for sticking with Banks as he said he would. Marcus committed a couple of dumb plays but overall didn't hurt things too much and I am happy that he wasn't yanked out of the game for good.

[ethan_cohen]

We out rebounded a team! We out rebounded a team!

[INFORMER]

Al asked him if this kind of strong offensive night is going to become the norm for him. Boris' response: "maybe". What does that mean?

I took French for 3 years so let me translate that for you: "No."

[ethan_cohen]

If you tell Boris what you expect he'll go on strike.

It's amazing that the difference between 1st and 8th seed in the West is 5 games. In the East it's 13!

[INFORMER]

Props to D'Antoni for going back to Banks and for giving Skinner 16 minutes.

Most importantly:

THANK YOU BORIS DIAW! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE , KEEP IT UP!!!

Seriously, good job by Boris, Nash was on fire, and Bell had some good stats. Bad team, at home, and the Suns took care of business. Well done, and let's get the next one.

BTW: Just one negative:

ANDREW BOGUT CANNOT GET 29 POINTS OFF OF 14/16 SHOOTING. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

[Mori_Chu]

This game made me proud as a Suns fan. I know we're supposed to beat the Bucks, but I felt like it was a strong win where several guys had huge games.

Let's start with Steve Nash. What a warrior. He was clearly still not 100%, battling his stomach flu. And the guy puts up over 30 points with an insane shooting percentage! Wow. We are so lucky we have this guy leading our team. He is the toughest, smartest, most talented guy I've ever rooted for.

Amare: I'm gonna remember "the dunk" for a while. You know the one. Where he was jumping away from the basket and just spiked the ball down through the hoop. His hand really didn't even touch the basket; he just chucked it downward through the hoop in one smooth motion. I could watch replays of that dunk all day. -1 point for letting Bogut have a career night against him, but still a good offensive game for Amare.

Boris: A Diaw sighting! I loved it. Wow, are we ever a more dangerous team when he's playing aggressively. I loved that he'd first go hard to the basket, looking to score, and then if he met with too much defense he'd make the right pass. He's still a smart player and even when playing aggressively like that, he doesn't try to do too much. I wish I knew what is preventing him from playing like that more often...

Others: Raja seems to be closer to his old self again, which is a welcome sight. Banks keeps giving me what I want to see, given the amount of minutes he's getting. Marion was pretty quiet, but he clearly wasn't 100%, often choosing to dribble and defend with his left hand.

The only minor minuses in this game for me were Amare's D and Barbosa's play. LB has been a little off lately, kind of in his own little world. Hopefully it's just a brief slump and he'll figure it out.

Great game, great win!

[AZSportsFan]

Bogut can hit the little hook shot all day. What is Amare supposed to do? Grow 4 inches and gain 40 lbs? Bogut will get his against Amare, and Amare will return the favor. Not much Amare can do to him. The Suns don't have good enough defense for Amare to pick him up high and keep him far away from the lane. The Bucks would have a parade to the hoop.

[wpmiller42]

Great game, the team came out with energy and beat a VERY hot-shooting bucks team. Boris played great, and I thought Marcus Banks played well too.

Honestly, I think Boris even plays at 80% of what he did tonight and the championship is ours. He is just such a force on offense, and is a really solid defender. Plus, a couple of those lobs to Amare were almost there. A couple more games like that and those are going to be buckets.

If Boris can keep playing at this level as a starter, I would be in favor of Grant coming off the bench. I think Grant would be in favor of that too!

[INFORMER]

Bogut can hit the little hook shot all day. What is Amare supposed to do? Grow 4 inches and gain 40 lbs? Bogut will get his against Amare, and Amare will return the favor. Not much Amare can do to him. The Suns don't have good enough defense for Amare to pick him up high and keep him far away from the lane. The Bucks would have a parade to the hoop.

All of that may be true, but it doesn't excuse allowing Andrew Bogut 29 points on 14/16 shooting. It just doesn't.

[ethan_cohen]

There are some positives to the Bogut situation. We kept him off the line. He had to work for his shots which kept Amare in the game. Which kept us in the game.

We held Redd in check at 5-16 shots. Yi was 2 of 7. Mo was 3 of 9.

Their bench torched us for 16 of 26.

[INFORMER]

Honestly, I think Boris even plays at 80% of what he did tonight and the championship is ours.

Agreed. Tonight was more than I expect or demand of Boris.


If Boris can keep playing at this level as a starter, I would be in favor of Grant coming off the bench. I think Grant would be in favor of that too!

Again, agreed. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Let Boris actually play well over a stretch of games before we worry about this. And the bigger question is will D'Antoni be able to show some flexibility and bring Hill off the bench? If the Suns can find any way for Diaw to be a regular, significant contributor, they have to stay with it. There isn't a need to worry about Hill; he'll get his no matter what.

[ethan_cohen]

The only thing that bothers me about the Doris enthusiasm is that it never seems to come without a huge drop off in someone else's game. This one was Shawn. Maybe that's not his fault, but it seems to be reality. Is that coaching, scheme, coincidence. . . I don't know.

I know that Hill's impact didn't come at the expense of a core player's game. It's interesting.

[ShelC]

Couldnt see the game, only heard on radio but were we feeding Boris in the post and letting him look for offense/distribute from there at all? How was he getting his scores and assists?

The only thing that bothers me about the Doris enthusiasm is that it never seems to come without a huge drop off in someone else's game. This one was Shawn. Maybe that's not his fault, but it seems to be reality. Is that coaching, scheme, coincidence. . . I don't know.

Shawn is still injured. If anyone plays well with boris, its shawn. Look at how many oops Boris used to throw him during the 05-06 season.

[INFORMER]

There are some positives to the Bogut situation. We kept him off the line. He had to work for his shots which kept Amare in the game. Which kept us in the game.

Not only do I like Bogut, I recognize he's an above average player. But if he can get 29 on 14/16 (plus 11 boards) off the Suns, what is Duncan, Bynum, Chandler, West, etc. going to do to them in the playoffs?

[INFORMER]

The only thing that bothers me about the Doris enthusiasm is that it never seems to come without a huge drop off in someone else's game. This one was Shawn. Maybe that's not his fault, but it seems to be reality. Is that coaching, scheme, coincidence. . . I don't know.

I know that Hill's impact didn't come at the expense of a core player's game. It's interesting.

Interesting observations, and definitely something to think about.

I think making it all work comes back on the coach though, especially when you have Barbosa jacking it up.

[scosuns]

Solid win. Definitely was not easy, but a win nonetheless. I'm happy Banks got consistent minutes. And wow, Boris played awesome. I just wish he would continue this every game, or at least when need be. I think he was the X-factor tonight and the reason why we won. I loved his aggressiveness. Amare was solid again offensively. I wish he could of stopped Bogut. Bogut had a field day.

Well, another W. Suns are now 26-11.

[ethan_cohen]

There are some positives to the Bogut situation. We kept him off the line. He had to work for his shots which kept Amare in the game. Which kept us in the game.

Not only do I like Bogut, I recognize he's an above average player. But if he can get 29 on 14/16 (plus 11 boards) off the Suns, what is Duncan, Bynum, Chandler, West, etc. going to do to them in the playoffs?

Relatively the same. Amare didn't front him and made him shoot over him. He got his points. But there wasn't another starter for Mil. that got their numbers tonight. If that's the case with SA, LA, CHI, NO, etc, we're fine.

[INFORMER]

But it isn't a direct and congruent comparison becase those teams have more talent around their big men than Milwaukee does.

[ethan_cohen]

Maybe Shel. But Shawn got 4 shots tonight. That's not an injury problem, it's number of touches.

We outrebounded this team. We didn't turn the ball over. We shot well. We got to the line more and made our free throws and it was still a close game in the last 3 minutes. Doris' break out night was coupled with monster nights from Amare and Nash and nobody else. It's suspect.

[INFORMER]

Shawn has had quiet nights before without a Boris sighting.

[ethan_cohen]

But it isn't a direct and congruent comparison becase those teams have more talent around their big men than Milwaukee does.

Hard to argue. I actually think Mil. is a very talented team that can't seem to win. Redd is the best pure shooter in the league. I tell you what. I'd trade Banks and Stat for Bogut and Redd any day.

[ethan_cohen]

Shawn has had quiet nights before without a Boris sighting.

That's not the point. Has Boris had monster nights without losing stats from Marion and Stat?

If not, we're trading offense without any real benefit, plus a big defensive liability. I could be wrong. I'm just guessing right now.

[INFORMER]

I'd trade Banks and Stat for Bogut and Redd any day.

I'd be lying if I said I never thought about that.


Has Boris had monster nights without losing stats from Marion and Stat?

I'm looking through Shawn's game logs right now.

[ShelC]

Boris hasnt had a monster night since spring of '05. Hes not the reason Shawn played poorly tonight. Barbs has been up and down, we were without Hill. Stat had 31 and Stevie had 35. Whats the problem here?

[Phoenix219]

10-9 against good teams, still puts us at winning more than we lose - a good thing for a 7 game series don't ya think?

The thing is those bad teams won`t be in the playoffs.

Remember '05? Remember the Win-Loss-Win-Loss-Win pattern, all the 7 game series - but the fact is whether u win 4-3 or 4-0, you still win - and 10-9 against good teams still puts us on par for that 4-3 win in a 7 game series. I'll take it...

[ethan_cohen]

See post 66. Defense.

[ShelC]

What about the defense? I dont even understand your statement or logic there? What offense are we trading? Shawns for Boris'? I dont think so. And what defensive liability?

[ethan_cohen]

You're giving Boris minutes that rob offense from our core three, but provide less defense. It's not complicated.

[Phoenix219]

Boris gets his minutes anyways. He's been shooting 2-8 and shit. He gets his touches, he just needs to connect on them - and that won't take numbers or shots away from anyone.

[INFORMER]

Games in which Marion scored in single figures:

1/05/08 vs. NOH

Marion: 2-9, 6 points

Diaw: 4-6, 11 points

12/17/07 vs. SAS

Marion: 4-7, 9 points

Diaw: 5-11, 11 points

12/05/07 vs. TOR

Marion: 3-9, 10 points

Diaw: 7-11, 14 points

11/20/07 vs. SAC

Marion: 1-5, 2 points

Diaw: 4-11, 8 points

[ShelC]

Well i didnt see the game so i cant speak to the defense. But Bogut had a great game against Amare, so i dont know where Boris figures into that. And i heard on one play that Simmons just went right by Shawn for an easy lay-in in the 1st half. This is a guy coming off an achilles injury.

But i dont think Boris is that bad of a defender. His team defense is suspect, but his 1on1 defense is solid IMO. I also dont see how he robs our core three of offense when again, Stevie had 35 and Amare had 31. The fact that Amare had a good game while Boris logged heavy minutes as a starter should be the real story here. Those two havent been able to have good games simultaneously. This may be the 1st one.

[ethan_cohen]

Boris gets his minutes anyways. He's been shooting 2-8 and shit. He gets his touches, he just needs to connect on them - and that won't take numbers or shots away from anyone.

Fine. So when Hill comes back, we won't expect 37 minutes and 15 shots from Doris. I'm cool with that.

[ShelC]

That all. Boris stepped up, as well he should. Now hes getting crap for it because shawn had another subpar game? Unreal.

[INFORMER]

Boris gets his minutes anyways. He's been shooting 2-8 and shit. He gets his touches, he just needs to connect on them - and that won't take numbers or shots away from anyone.

My sentiments exactly. And even though tonight was great, no one is asking Boris to score 20 a game. There's a happy median between nights like tonight and the usual stinkers we get from him.

Als, note that Boris did most of his scoring before the 4th quarter. I think he may have had what, 2-3 points in the last quarter. So it isn't like it took him the whole game to put up the stats he did.

[INFORMER]

That all. Boris stepped up, as well he should. Now hes getting crap for it because shawn had another subpar game? Unreal.

I don't think EC is giving him crap. He's just saying that maybe more production out of Diaw is more of a detriment than we might think. Hence, be careful for what you ask.

[ethan_cohen]

Maybe I'm not being clear. I'm not "giving him crap". I'm saying he's worse defensively than Hill. His numbers are suspect because Shawn 's were so far off, while that doesn't happen with Hill.

If you want to chalk that up to a bum elbow for Trix, go ahead. I'm just saying I'm not so sure. And before we start saying Doris is back, let's look at the big picture. Back at what cost?

That's not anti Boris. It's a question. The fact that you equate it to "giving him crap" is your gig. Either agree with the point or disagree, but don't twist it into some hate fest.

[ethan_cohen]

Hence, be careful for what you ask.

Wow. You actually went the extra mile to avoid the dangling prep. Big ups!

[wpmiller42]

Personally, I don't think Shawn had a bad game. He was active, got alot of tips, and was going for rebounds and boxing out his guy.

He got beat a couple times one-on-one and didn't shoot particularly well, but I think that is more due to his elbow injury and his first game back from that injury.

EC asks a valid question. I do not think Boris's success came at the expense of others tonight. Shawn can still get his, and there will be night's when Boris distributes more to Shawn. It just so happens that tonight, the matchups were in Boris's favor and he was able to post up smaller players and drive more.

Also, I think Boris is a very good post defender. I would be in favor of Boris playing defense on the majority of 5s in the league and letting Amare play defense on the opposing 4.

[ShelC]

Point taken. But i dont recall Shawn having a bad game in conjunction with Boris having a good one. I think thy have great chemistry together working the 2 man game. For whatever reason, probably the injury, shawn wasnt all the way there tonight.

Hill is a better help defender than Boris. He knows how to be in proper position and is great at taking charges. But we also werent terrible defensively in 05-06 because of Boris. We had KT helping in the paint, so maybe we need Skinner on the floor with Boris to cover that aspect.

Again, i didnt see the game tonight. What position was Boris playing? How was he getting his shots? How was he being fed the ball? Who was he guarding? Who was guarding him?

From listening a bit and reading the boxscore, the Bucks were just on, especially from the outside.

[ethan_cohen]

You guys are right. There's remarkably little evidence to support me theory. And it's just that, a theory.

When Hill comes back, the question becomes, who starts. Boris' play tonight makes a case for hill coming off the bench with Barbs. That's an interesting lineup with Skinner.

The question for the better part of 2 years has been can Boris be effective with Amare. Tonight the answer was yes. And it poses a new question.

Can Marion and eventually Hill be effective with an effective Boris?

I think it's more of a philosophical question, because there's no way to answer it yet. But considering the beating Boris has taken, I think it deserves consideration. Are we harping on him for no reason? Can we succeed with him succeeding?

[ShelC]

Ive seen a couple of games this year where Hill played with Boris in the 2nd unit and they had a definitely connection going on. There was one game where Boris kind of broke out, had that nice 2 hand dunk off the Hill feed and was playing aggressive for the first time all year....just cant remember the game. Anyways, i think Hill and Boris should play together a lot. Theyre actually pretty similar IMO as far as IQ and how they see the game.

[jkalldaway]

Boris scored in the twenties for the first time since last year and he had his second double-double of the year, both came as a starter.

[ShelC]

Start Boris!

[sehan]

More than his points - fairly impressed with his 11 rebounds. That is what we need from him more than points.

As to who starts, I say Boris. Not cause he is better, but cause I am confident that Hill will not suffer coming off the bench. From the last 2 years it is obviously Boris really needs to start with significant minutes to be "engaged" in the game.

Plus starting Boris makes us slightly bigger.

[JackArse]

so.. wait.. it's a detriment if boris scores, as opposed to someone else? so.. his 2 pts count less than marions?

someone has to step up at times, boris finally did what he is able to do.

anyways.. good show tonight by the team.
amare, played solid defense. understand, i'm grading on a curve. for most people, that'd be avg defense, for amare, was above avg, just guy is taller, and he was trying to keep from getting fouls, but he at least kept himself between bogut and the basket most of the time.
amare+diaw+nash = 87 of our points.

[cap]

10-9 against good teams, still puts us at winning more than we lose - a good thing for a 7 game series don't ya think?

The thing is those bad teams won`t be in the playoffs.

Remember '05? Remember the Win-Loss-Win-Loss-Win pattern, all the 7 game series - but the fact is whether u win 4-3 or 4-0, you still win - and 10-9 against good teams still puts us on par for that 4-3 win in a 7 game series. I'll take it...

I’m not sure about that 10-9 figure; I think it includes a lot of lower-echelon playoff teams from the East. Here’s an update of my “Big Games” post from a while ago:

Let’s define “Big Games” as games against potential playoff opponents. This means Western Conference teams with a good chance of making the playoffs, and Boston and Detroit, one of whom will probably represent the Eastern Conference in the Finals.

About the asterisks: I put asterisks on games in which the losing team was missing one or more key players to injury or illness or whatever. This isn’t to say that the wins or losses shouldn’t count, but rather that the circumstances diminish the value of the game as a predictor of the results of future games.

Big Games so far:



date opp note
------ ---- ---------------------------------------------
Nov 2 LAL L blowout on national TV
Nov 17 @HOU W* Tracy McGrady out with injury
Nov 26 @GSW L ugly
Nov 28 HOU L I hate losing to these guys
Dec 12 UTA W* 5th of 6 straight losses for Jazz; Okur out
Dec 15 @NOH L MVP pwn3d by CP3
Dec 17 @SAS W* Tony Parker out with injury
Dec 19 @DAL L we looked pretty good for three quarters...
Dec 25 @LAL L Bynum deserves serious All-Star consideration
Jan 5 NOH L David West out; no problem for NO
Jan 7 DEN W Yay! A win with no asterisk!
Jan 10 @UTA L* no Nash, no Hill, no Marion, no chance


4-8 overall; 1-7 in asteriskless games.

Gee, 1-7 doesn’t sound nearly as nice as 10-9, does it?

[sunsdotcom]

Start Boris!

But who sits?!

[SwingMan]

4-8 overall; 1-7 in asteriskless games.

Gee, 1-7 doesn’t sound nearly as nice as 10-9, does it?

So then, what would you classify Thursday's game at Utah then, cap?

[JediSkywalker]

I did go to the game eventually. I saw the worst traffic ever in downtown Phoenix. Parking spots were $40 a space- that is SICK! I was considering driving back home, but then I found a $10 garage space. I made it to my seat just before the national anthem. There were so many empty seats at USAC that I could not believe it. I have not seen that many empty seats in the last two years. May be people were doing what I had wanted to do tonight- watch the NFL playoffs at home. I did watch a bit during half time, but NE was leading and on their way to win #17.

I was happy that the Suns pulled it together in the second half, after Milwaukee scored 68 points in the first half. It felt good just to see Nash and Marion back in the lineup. In the first half Milwaukee was scoring at will, at multiple positions. It seemed the Suns focused on controlling Michael Redd so much that they forgot about all the remaining Bucks, and Redd made the 3 pointers anyway. The Suns did make some adjustments at halftime, so it slowed down the Bucks and the Suns raised their own level, as expected.

Boris was great tonight- 20 points, 11 rebs, 4 assists! Why couldn't he do that against the Jazz the other night? The Suns would have had a chance to win that game (I don't mean they would have definitely won it). I can't believe some posters on this board are still criticizing him. If he goes back to being Doris again, he deserves to be criticized, but give credit when he plays well, like tonight.

Milwaukee is a very young team, with most players having just 2-3 years experience; just a couple of them have 7 years. In a few years they will become like what the NO Hornets are this year. Yi will develop. I was quite impressed with them. Fortunately for the Suns the Bucks are not a great rebounding team. Amare was great in scoring points, and he even avoided foul trouble, but his defense left much to be desired. Bogut made 14 out of 16 buckets- that is unacceptable. The Suns will get killed by Bynum next Thurs. (and Kaman on Tues.) if they play defense the way they did tonight.

Marion may have been hurting, but his presence gave the Suns and their fans some confidence. I was worried about Nash coming back from what sounded like a serious bout of the stomach flu (he had to go to the ER last Wed. after the game). He had one of his better games; not many assists but 35 points. He was making the shots, and it was fun to watch. I was glad that Banks got some playing time. He was just OK, but still it was good that he got the opportunity. Of course, Hill's absence had a lot to do with it, but he did not make stupid fouls, and he did score some points. The story tonight definitely was Boris Diaw's game. I hope he has found his touch again, but I won't bet on it after just one good game. He needs to continue playing the way he did tonight.

It will be dangerous for the Suns to become complacent because of this win. The Lakers and even the Clips are going to be much tougher defensively. I hope the Suns can fix their defensive problems (too many open 3 point shots; not being able to stop Bogut from scoring near the basket), or they will be in trouble in LA next week.

In the meantime they get a much needed two days rest. Hopefully it will help them heal, and play with intensity and win both games in LA next week (here, I have jinixed them already).

[cap]

4-8 overall; 1-7 in asteriskless games.

Gee, 1-7 doesn’t sound nearly as nice as 10-9, does it?

So then, what would you classify Thursday's game at Utah then, cap?

In case you didn’t notice, I put an asterisk on that game.

[SwingMan]

Just curious if we won in your system is all, cap..... :lol:

[Superbone]

If I were in Phx, I'd definitely buy them from you Vash. I think we will see a spirited Suns team tonight after that lousy loss on Thursday.

I hope you are right. I finally decided to go to the game because I could not sell the ticket. I really wanted to watch the Jags beat the Pats tonight. I can catch part of the action at the arena, but just a few minutes at a time. I am taping that game, however, just in case that scenario comes to life.

I will be cheering for the Suns as loud as I can. I hope Nash can play, but if he is even slightly unwell, I think he should take the night off.

Looks like you made the right choice. :)

[Superbone]

Al asked him if this kind of strong offensive night is going to become the norm for him. Boris' response: "maybe". What does that mean?

Perhaps.

Possibly.

[Superbone]

We out rebounded a team! We out rebounded a team!

A big team too!

[Superbone]

Props to D'Antoni for going back to Banks and for giving Skinner 16 minutes.

Most importantly:

THANK YOU BORIS DIAW! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE , KEEP IT UP!!!

Seriously, good job by Boris, Nash was on fire, and Bell had some good stats. Bad team, at home, and the Suns took care of business. Well done, and let's get the next one.

BTW: Just one negative:

ANDREW BOGUT CANNOT GET 29 POINTS OFF OF 14/16 SHOOTING. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

I don't follow you, INF. Maybe if you highlighted the important parts...

[Superbone]

The only thing that bothers me about the Doris enthusiasm is that it never seems to come without a huge drop off in someone else's game. This one was Shawn. Maybe that's not his fault, but it seems to be reality. Is that coaching, scheme, coincidence. . . I don't know.

I know that Hill's impact didn't come at the expense of a core player's game. It's interesting.

I'm sure it's somehow D'Antoni's fault. The posters here will give you all the details. Heck, VT will even make a thread about it.

[SwingMan]

On a somewhat unrelated note, Mehmet Okur dropped 29/8 on 10-15 shooting (4-5 from 3) against Dwight Howard last night.

It ain't just Amare, folks.....

[Xcon]

"We've secretly replaced D'Antoni's Starbucks coffee with Folger's Crystals,
and Boris Diaw's vagina with a set of balls...now let's see if anyone notices.....":razz:

Holy shit that was funny. Thx for the laugh. :-)

[AlanS]

Boris Diaw is like my paycheck: he shows up once every two weeks, and it's just not enough. I give credit to Boris for a great game. But I just have this nagging feeling it will be business as usual the next 6-7 games. Time will tell.

One thing I was happy to see was his approach to post-ups. Often, when matched against a smaller player in the post, Boris will hesitate, looking around to see if he draws a double team. This gives the opposing team to setup their defense and contain him. In this game, he went right at the basket if he had a little guy on him, with good results.

Also, instead of settling for the jump shot, which has been off for him all season long, he went to the hoop, especially when guarded by one of the Bucks' bigs - again, often with good results.

But the bottom line with Boris is this: he has to be willing to take shots, AND able to make them. His problem this season is, he's either been unwilling to take shots; and when he takes shots, he's been unable to make them. Today was different, but will he be willing and able tomorrow?

I want to believe...

PS: When Boris is on and he's drawing double-teams, his ability to find shooters at the 3PT line is uncanny. He got passes to wide open shooters at the acr several times. They didn't all result in scores, but they did create great opportunities. I wish that Amare - the man who would be point-center - could do that.

[ShelC]

Boris Diaw is like my paycheck: he shows up once every two weeks, and it's just not enough.

Thats a great line. I cant wait to use it myself!

[desertcoast]

When Boris is on and he's drawing double-teams, his ability to find shooters at the 3PT line is uncanny. He got passes to wide open shooters at the acr several times. They didn't all result in scores, but they did create great opportunities. I wish that Amare - the man who would be point-center - could do that.


Amare's Body+Boris's Brain =
The Player We Hoped One of Them Would Turn Into

[Wormwood]

Did anyone else think that fall away dunk of Stoudemires was about the sickest thing they'd ever seen? In dunk o' meter terms, that was up there with KJ and Olajuwon, Majerle and Bol, or Chambers over Jackson. wow. Just freaking wow.

As for Boris, we've seen him wake up a few times over the past year and a half, but it's never "taken". I'm not holding my breath. The only good thing is we've now seen he's still physically capable of performing at a high level.

WHich brings us to.... Banks. Two games ago I said I'd wait and see for two weeks if his game against Indiana was a fluke, or if perhaps he'd turned a corner. I've chenged my mind. I'm not going to wait two weeks to declear Indiana was nothing more than a statistical outlier, and that Marcus is still a clueless chucker with a basketball IQ at both ends of the court that aspires to the level of "invertebrate". To whit: I saw nash repeatedly use his body control to slip through screens and stay on his man on defense. Banks? Despite being stroinger and faster than Nash, he always went under the screens, freeing Bucks up for open looks. Royal Freaking Ivey torched him. I say dump his ass the moment we have a chance. How 'bout Dan Gadzuric?

[ShelC]

Youre comparing the 2time MVP to Banks. Think about that. Barbs still doesnt know how to play the pick and roll either from what ive seen. Not a whole lot of young guards do.

Banks probably has no trade value, much less for a 6-11 athletic big like Gadz and with CharlieBell and MoWilliams already on the roster signed to long term deals.

[AlanS]

WHich brings us to.... Banks. Two games ago I said I'd wait and see for two weeks if his game against Indiana was a fluke, or if perhaps he'd turned a corner. I've chenged my mind. I'm not going to wait two weeks to declear Indiana was nothing more than a statistical outlier, and that Marcus is still a clueless chucker

At this point, my feeling about Banks is, I no longer care if he helps the team - I've given up on that - as long as he doesn't hurt the team. If he can get to the point where he does no harm, I'll be ok with him, if not happy.

One thing to keep in mind, he has been on the bench for a long while. You have to figure he's rusty, and also, he hasn't had a chance to develop any team chemistry with the other players. I think it's reasonable to expect that he'll need at least a handful of games to get in the groove... if he's going to get into the groove at all.

[Ring_Wanted]

If we hadn't used 2 1stR picks in the KT trade, I think the Cavs would take Banks and a 1st for Newble and his expiring contract. Flexibility matters, I guess..

[Superbone]

Did anyone else think that fall away dunk of Stoudemires was about the sickest thing they'd ever seen? In dunk o' meter terms, that was up there with KJ and Olajuwon, Majerle and Bol, or Chambers over Jackson. wow. Just freaking wow.

I loved Majerle's description that it was like Amare was playing on a Nerf hoop.

[Superbone]

Youre comparing the 2time MVP to Banks. Think about that. Barbs still doesnt know how to play the pick and roll either from what ive seen. Not a whole lot of young guards do.

Barbs is getting better. Last night he had an excellent pick and roll from the left corner with Amare that was very Nash like. It got me excited.

[JustWinBaby]

Ethan wrote

{I'd trade Banks and Stat for Bogut and Redd any day.}

WTF - Your opinion but IMO would be a dumb trade, for us.

Redd is a chucker Bogut has been an under performer for the most part. I really would not want Redd and his contract anywhere near my roster. Bogut would be interesting but not for STAT.

It really is amazing how many people are willing to trade STAT. He is a difference maker and arguably top 5 or so in the league, you do not trade those type of players, period.

Boris on the other hand is a totally different story. Surely he had his best game since I can't remember when but his post game interview took a lot of the enthusiasm out of his performance for me. He basically acted like it was no big deal and was shocked that everyone was excited about him getting a double double. I really think he thinks he has been doing everything just fine - missing shots, not getting rebounds and passing to teammates when he is at the rim is the way the game should be played, so he ain't changing.

I surely hope he shows up against the Lakers.

Fun game to watch and I will enjoy the victory but without Boris, Amare and Nash shooting out of their minds, we lose this game. We still have work to do.

[ShelC]

Barbs is getting better. Last night he had an excellent pick and roll from the left corner with Amare that was very Nash like.

We were talking defensively.

I wouldnt do the Bogut-Redd trade either. Amare gives us such a dynamic look because of his athleticsm inside. Without him, we're too perimeter oriented and soft all around. Think those late 90s Kidd era Suns teams. Bogut would be a nice fit here at the 5 spot (with Amare sliding back to his natural 4 position inside) tho given his ability to pass and shoot from the perimeter, along with his legit size. And yea, i wouldnt touch Redds contract with my 10 foot pole.

Call me crazy (and most people do here anyways) but Boris and Bogut would be an ideal 4/5 combo IMO. Moreso than he and Amare so long as the Bucks would play Boris at the 4, in the post and let him work from there, kicking out to Bogut and Redd. He and Bogut would be a crazy passing tandem hi-low.

[v9]

When Boris is on and he's drawing double-teams, his ability to find shooters at the 3PT line is uncanny. He got passes to wide open shooters at the acr several times. They didn't all result in scores, but they did create great opportunities. I wish that Amare - the man who would be point-center - could do that.


Amare's Body+Boris's Brain =
The Player We Hoped One of Them Would Turn Into

More like:

Amare's Body+Amare's Heart+Boris's BBall IQ = Hakeem

But, don't forget - back when Hakeem was Akeem, he got a lot of flak for being a "dumb" player and a "knucklehead."

[Mori_Chu]

Boris on the other hand is a totally different story. Surely he had his best game since I can't remember when but his post game interview took a lot of the enthusiasm out of his performance for me. He basically acted like it was no big deal and was shocked that everyone was excited about him getting a double double.

Wow, JWB, you must really hate Boris Diaw. He puts up a monster game, and all you can talk about is his post-game interview? Talk about nitpicking. Give the guy a break; he just had a great game for us. Appreciate it. Why don't you actually wait until he (possibly) reverts and plays badly before piling on him?

[Phoenix219]

Barbs is getting better. Last night he had an excellent pick and roll from the left corner with Amare that was very Nash like.

We were talking defensively.

I wouldnt do the Bogut-Redd trade either. Amare gives us such a dynamic look because of his athleticsm inside. Without him, we're too perimeter oriented and soft all around. Think those late 90s Kidd era Suns teams. Bogut would be a nice fit here at the 5 spot (with Amare sliding back to his natural 4 position inside) tho given his ability to pass and shoot from the perimeter, along with his legit size. And yea, i wouldnt touch Redds contract with my 10 foot pole.

Call me crazy (and most people do here anyways) but Boris and Bogut would be an ideal 4/5 combo IMO. Moreso than he and Amare so long as the Bucks would play Boris at the 4, in the post and let him work from there, kicking out to Bogut and Redd. He and Bogut would be a crazy passing tandem hi-low.

Who would we be getting from the Bucks for Boris then, if they would be keeping Bogut and Redd?

[FurlanFufi]

When Boris is on and he's drawing double-teams, his ability to find shooters at the 3PT line is uncanny. He got passes to wide open shooters at the acr several times. They didn't all result in scores, but they did create great opportunities. I wish that Amare - the man who would be point-center - could do that.


Amare's Body+Boris's Brain =
The Player We Hoped One of Them Would Turn Into

More like:

Amare's Body+Amare's Heart+Boris's BBall IQ = Hakeem

But, don't forget - back when Hakeem was Akeem, he got a lot of flak for being a "dumb" player and a "knucklehead."

Yeah, but turns out he was one fo the best ever for his position. Are the Suns allowed to do genetic experiences to turn Amare and Diaw one person?
And what if this person turns out to be a lazy ass dumb center?

[ShelC]

Who would we be getting from the Bucks for Boris then, if they would be keeping Bogut and Redd?

The BYC thing is tricky, but if we could get Gadz and/or Simmons itd be a good deal for us. Again, im not 100% sure how the BYC numbers work for Boris. The bucks overpaid for Simmons and hes coming off an achilles injury. But if hes healthy hes the shooter we could use, possibly as our future 2 or 3. Gadz is a guy we all know about. And i'd try and get CharlieV thrown into the deal. Hes low-risk high reward IMO.

[FurlanFufi]

Sure it doesn't work for cap purposes,but I would love to see the Yi guy on this team.
And we'll have a lot of votes for all star game also...

[Mori_Chu]

But, don't forget - back when Hakeem was Akeem, he got a lot of flak for being a "dumb" player and a "knucklehead."

"When you think of garbage, think of Akeem!" -- Eddie Murphy, Coming to America

Seriously, though: I have the solution. Amare should change his name to:

Hamare Abdul Stoudemire Rauf!

[INFORMER]

Redd is a chucker

Please.

[Ring_Wanted]

Maybe not a chucker in the Navarro mold, but he brings little else besides his shooting and a max contract.

[ShelC]

His dribble drive game is pretty underrated. I always thought he was just a shooter but ive seen him put the ball on the floor, attack the basket and finish plays that made my eyes go wide.

[darrkin]

hes like so yesterday....