Friday News: No Nash, No Shawn, No Hill, No Way

[AlanS]

Suns fail to keep pace (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0110suns0111.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/pics/0110sunstonight-autosized258.jpg
Suns guard Marcus Bank is fouled by Utah Jazz guard C.J. Miles.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 11, 2008 12:10 AM

SALT LAKE CITY - Since Steve Nash returned to the Suns in 2004, they had not played a game without him and his fellow Suns All-Star, Shawn Marion.

The Suns learned Thursday night that they would prefer to avoid doing so again.

Reduced to nine available players on the second night of a back-to-back set Thursday against Utah, one of the NBA's better home teams, the Suns had about as much hope as the Washington Generals have against the Harlem Globetrotters.

Without three starters - Nash (flu), Marion (right elbow bruise and sore right shoulder) and Grant Hill (appendectomy) - the Suns were drilled for a 108-86 loss.

"For the first half, we gave it a shot," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "We came out the second half and our legs were wobbly. I think last night (a home overtime win Wednesday against Indiana), coming back the way we did, it took something out of them... We just didn't have enough firepower. We had some guys who tried to get it done but didn't quite get it done."

It was Phoenix's worst margin of defeat of the season. The Suns shot 36.1 percent from the field, their worst performance this season.

The Suns trailed by double digits for the entire second half and hardly resembled the team with the Western Conference's best record.

And they barely still have it, as the loss put Phoenix at 25-11, a half-game ahead of Dallas for the conference's best mark and a game ahead of the Los Angeles Lakers for the Pacific Division lead.

Phoenix had been 14-0 when center Amaré Stoudemire posts at least 20 points and 10 rebounds this season, but a more telling stat proved to be the Suns' record the past four seasons without Nash. Stoudemire had 21 points and 14 rebounds in three quarters, but the Suns fell to 4-13 when Nash has been out injured.

Phoenix started Leandro Barbosa, Marcus Banks and Boris Diaw (who also was hampered by a tight back) in the place of the usual starters and tried to employ a zone defense to stay out of foul trouble and limit points in the paint, a category in which Utah leads the league.

It backfired early, when the Jazz scored 22 in the paint in the first quarter. But Phoenix kept pace, with Barbosa scoring 16 and the Suns trailing 35-28.

"I started off strong in the first quarter," Barbosa said. "I played well I thought. In the second half, I got a little bit tired and let up a little bit."

In the third quarter, with most of its starters resting, Utah lost patience against the zone and settled for jumpers, scoring just three points in the first six minutes of the quarter.

But Phoenix missed its first seven shots of the quarter during its last available window to challenge.

Once Utah's regulars returned, so did the efficiency of an offense that only the Suns have outshot this season. The Jazz also were missing two of their top players, Andrei Kirilenko (back) and Matt Harpring (wife in labor), but were getting more than the usual Carlos Boozer/Deron Williams show. Utah scored in unusual ways, whether it was Mehmet Okur in the post or C.J. Miles dunking on Stoudemire.

The Jazz, 14-3 at home, blew open the game in the third quarter. Barbosa struggled to score in the middle quarters, and there was nobody to create the shots that Nash gives his team, particularly in transition.

Stoudemire was only 3 of 8 in the quarter, and the rest of the team went 2 for 14.

Phoenix scored 12 in the third, its lowest-scoring quarter of the season, and trailed 86-60 entering the fourth, prompting playing time for Sean Marks and D.J. Strawberry, who played well after flying in to be the team's ninth man Thursday.

Suns report

Cheers

D.J. Strawberry played the entire fourth quarter and tallied eight points and three assists.

Jeers

The Suns could not afford an off night from a regular player and wound up with only Amaré Stoudemire having a sufficient offensive outing.

Player of the game

Utah's Mehmet Okur scored 22 points and grabbed 17 rebounds, one off a career high and as many as he had in his past four games combined.

View from press row

Phoenix swiped free agent Raja Bell from Utah in the 2005 off-season, and the Jazz have been trying to replace him ever since. The latest reminder came with the Dec. 29 trade, which sent one failed shooting-guard replacement (Gordan Giricek) to Philadelphia to acquire the latest try (Kyle Korver). Bell played two years in Utah and was a captain, averaging 12.3 points per game in 2004-05. Since then, Utah has tried Korver, Giricek, Ronnie Brewer, Andre Owens, C.J. Miles, Devin Brown and Derek Fisher.

[ShelC]

One thing that bothered me was reading Coros blog about how MikeD doesnt like the zone. If its known he doesnt like a zone defense and is using it begrudgingly, then that gets thru to the players and they begrudgingly play it. There are different types of zones you can throw out to confuse a team, it doesnt have to be the standard 2-3. But the coach also has to make the players believe itll work, or any defense/offense for that matter. Otherwise theyre basically running it until coach says not to. The players take their cue from the coach.

Also, it feels like Okur has a lot of big games against us. I saw him basically drive around amare for an easy lay-in last night that absolutely shouldnt happen. 1on1 Post defense. Yea, hes bigger but probably isnt stronger and defintiely isnt quicker or more athletic.

Disappointed that certain guys didnt step up. You'd think MikeD would have Boris out there taking every shot he gets. With 3 starters out in a BS game, it shouldve been experimental. Give Diaw as many touches as possible. Give Amare as many touches as possible. Get DJ some real run. Maybe even rest some guys <coughRAJAcough>. Amare had 21 and 14 but no win :( . We were undermanned. Just move on to the next one.

[SwingMan]

Because zone involves teaching, Shel - have we seen proof that D'Antoni actually teaches instead of preaches? :lol:

[AlanS]

Cheers

D.J. Strawberry played the entire fourth quarter and tallied eight points and three assists.

Sean Marks' numbers were as good as Straw's: 5 pts, 2/4 FG, 6 reb (2 off), 1 asst, 1 stl, 2 blks in 14 minutes. I guess we should cheer for him as well.

[ShelC]

Because zone involves teaching, Shel - have we seen proof that D'Antoni actually teaches instead of preaches?

I guess it was glossed over in those grueling, mind bending 45 minute practices.

[AlanS]

You'd think MikeD would have Boris out there taking every shot he gets. With 3 starters out in a BS game, it shouldve been experimental. Give Diaw as many touches as possible.

I would have liked to have seen Diaw post-up more. I don't think he went to the low post even once in this game. Boris is a very good passer from the low-post position, and at least, he would have been closer to the basket.

But RE: Boris taking shots... it just seems to me Boris doesn't want to shoot the ball. Considering he shot 38% from the field in December, and is shooting 40.7% in January, I can understand his hesitation.

I don't know what's happened to him. He shot 52.6% in 05/06 and 53.8% in 06/07. Now he can't make an outside shot OR finish around the rim. He's totally regressed.

[ShelC]

I think you really need to stay on him, get in his face and literally tell him before every game what you expect. The entire 05-06 season everyone stayed on him to be aggressive and take more shots and he finally worked his way to becoming an aggressive scorer. A couple of times this season when the media, fans (us) and his teammates have spoken out about needing him to contribute, hes responded for a few games but only after really being prodded. Then hes reverted back. If it takes being prodded then so be it. Some guys need extra motivation to score (Boris), others dont (Amare, Barbs). I just honestly think its not Boris' nature to look for his own. He doesnt look confident at all when he has a chance to score and that leads to him passing. Its identical to the start of the 05-06 season when he wouldnt score or wouldnt dunk. Hes a natural passer, but at 6-9 230 plays in the frontcourt. If he were 6-3, we'd probably have our backup PG.

I agree that his best weapon, and maybe ours, is probably his post game so long as hes at least a miminal threat to score. Hes such a great passer out of the post, but if the defense knows hes going to kick out everytime, theyll stay out on shooters. If he can really score the ball with his moves, then they have to collapse and thatll open things up for Raja and Barbs. But its the same logic with Amare as far as post ups: MikeD thinks it slows the game down too much.

[sunsdotcom]

with our small lineup, and since we want to protect a poor defender like amare from foul trouble, i don't know why we don't play enough zone defense.

[AlanS]

But its the same logic with Amare as far as post ups: MikeD thinks it slows the game down too much.

I think it's more true to say that in the halfcourt, D'Antoni prefers the pick and roll over postups. In any event, I've seen Boris post-up enough during his time here to feel like it is a nice tool, but one we don't use enough... I think Boris' lack of aggressiveness makes Mike reluctant to build plays around him.

[sunsdotcom]

Utah Jazz: Utah crushes undermanned, Nash-less Suns
Utah crushes undermanned, Nash-less Suns
By Ross Siler
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 01/11/2008 02:58:52 AM MST

Jazz Blog
Steve Luhm and Ross Siler offer more insight on the Jazz and the NBA in their blog.
Related

* Jazz Game Day
* Jan 11:
* Utah Jazz: Okur stands tall
* Monson: Jazz find meaning in blowout win
* Utah Jazz: Brewer ties career high with 21 points
* Utah Jazz: Boozer has family back

There was no mistaking the masqueraders in the purple and orange uniforms on the floor Thursday night at EnergySolutions Arena with the real Phoenix Suns, the team with the Western Conference's best record and the run-and-gun offense.
Not with two-time MVP Steve Nash skipping this trip with stomach flu, Grant Hill out two to three weeks after undergoing an appendectomy and Shawn Marion a late scratch with an injured right elbow.
So much for the Suns' only visit to Salt Lake City this season and the ratings for the nationally televised game on TNT. The Jazz were more than happy, though, to take an easy 108-86 victory, their fourth win in the last five games.
Then
Jazz vs. Suns
again, the final score might as well have been 10-9, advantage Jazz, as far as the number of players each team had in uniform. The Jazz came apart in the second quarter before regrouping in the third quarter and building a 26-point lead.
For their part, the Jazz were missing regulars Andrei Kirilenko, who sat out his third game with a lower back injury, and Matt Harpring, whose wife delivered their second child, a yet-to-be named baby girl, Thursday night.
"We had a couple out. They had a couple out,'' Carlos Boozer said succinctly. "The great thing about it is we maintained our focus and we took care of business."
With no Nash, no Marion and no Hill, Phoenix was left
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to account for a missing 49.0 points, 18.5 rebounds and 17.6 assists. They came in averaging a league-leading 110.7 points per game, but could muster only 86 points on 36.1 percent shooting Thursday.
Ronnie Brewer matched a career-high with 21 points while Mehmet Okur finished with 22 points and 17 rebounds.
Okur posted up Amare Stoudemire for a dunk and reverse layup in the first half and was asked, 'Who was that player?' after the game.

Photo gallery
Jazz vs. Suns
"That was my brother," Okur shot back, adding, "Really felt good out there tonight. I start the ball game, I got to the free-throw line, I got offensive rebound. Then I step back. That's how I got to start every game like that."
The Jazz (20-17) took a 12-point first-quarter lead by overpowering the Suns inside. They scored 22 of 35 points in the paint, but reverted to old habits once Phoenix opened the second quarter in a zone defense.
They went 1-for-15 - yes, 1-for-15 - with four turnovers and left Jazz coach Jerry Sloan flailing his hands wildly during a timeout with 5:47 left, trying to emphasize just how aimlessly his players were launching jumpers.
"I was really disappointed in what we thought our zone offense was about,'' Sloan said. "Dribble the ball down the floor and first guy who catches it, shoots it."
Zone-busting shooter Kyle Korver went 0-for-5 in the quarter and missed four three-pointers. "I haven't gotten that many good looks in a long time,'' Korver said. "I was probably a little bit anxious, shot them a little bit quick maybe."
The Jazz finally got a breakthrough basket when C.J. Miles dunked on Stoudemire as part of a three-point play. Three minutes later, Miles offered an alley-oop dunk as an encore. The Jazz took a 58-48 lead into halftime and pulled away in the third quarter.
Leandro Barbosa and Marcus Banks started at guard for the Suns, who went just seven players deep in the first half and wound up playing Brian Skinner, Eric Piatkowski, Sean Marks and D.J. Strawberry all at least a quarter each.
"You do what you got to do,'' Sloan said, adding, "I wish every team was healthy and I wish every team had all their players every night. That's a better indication of who you are."
At the same time, Sloan said he was starting to see signs that the Jazz were shedding the "boredom" with which they played in December. "Our guys look a little bit more energized to play,'' he said, "and hopefully they can pull together and move forward."
rsiler@sltrib.com

[ShelC]

I think Boris' lack of aggressiveness makes Mike reluctant to build plays around him.

I think it can go the other way as well, just as Amare. Get him touches when he first comes in to get him mentally into the game. Because Boris is so unaggressive, you cant expect him to get his in the flow of the game, ala Shawn or Hill. He doesnt seem to be able to pick his spots and go for his own. I think he needs to be given the ball and basically told to score. And once hes into the game in that sense, it should lead to him working harder defensively and on the boards. I dont think hes a selfish player who says, "I want touches or im not going to play hard", i just really think he has an inability to impose his will on the game on his own.

I think it's more true to say that in the halfcourt, D'Antoni prefers the pick and roll over postups.

And that drives me crazy because whats the difference? We're already in the halfcourt setting and most times a post up is more reliable than the pick and roll, which teams know is coming and know how to attack defensively at this point. More often than not this season, we run the ball upcourt and when we dont score, we quickly play pick and roll. Thats still not fastbreak or run and gun. If it works, yea its quick hitting but teams have managed to slow Nash down enough while bringing the ball upcourt to get their defense set and take that play away or at least defend well enough. Get a post up once in a while and let Amare go to work. Whats the worst that can happen? Amare dunks? Amare gets fouled? Gee, we stopped the clock and slowed the game down but we also get 2 FTs and get a foul on the other team. And next time down, teams dont know if we're posting up or playing pick and roll.

[sunsdotcom]

lang whitaker...

http://slamonline.com/online/2008/01/links-suns-at-jazz-game-notes/

[Xcon]

Regarding Boris, we're learning what the Hawks learned a long time ago. He'll break your heart until you finally realize he'll never play up to his potential.

[LU]

yeah right...
- this is a team with many passive defenders, and you want them to have even less individual responsibility and play more zone?
- a team which lacks rebounding and you want more zone?
- a small team which needs to run and you want more zone?
- a team which has no big stiffs and you want more zone?
... good call...
sure, there are other and more aggressive zones than the simple 2-3, but c'mon this isn't college, this is pro basketball and you can use them for short stints (btw, ask Coach about a certain 1-3-1 defense...)
I suspect that if D'Antoni says he doesn't like pasta, someone on this forum would say "he's to blame, he doesn't feed them with enough carbs!". Of course, Shawn fell on his elbow, Steve got the flu and Grant had appedicitis because D'Antoni played them too long

[Coop]

yeah right...
- this is a team with many passive defenders, and you want them to have even less individual responsibility and play more zone?
- a team which lacks rebounding and you want more zone?
- a small team which needs to run and you want more zone?
- a team which has no big stiffs and you want more zone?
... good call...
sure, there are other and more aggressive zones than the simple 2-3, but c'mon this isn't college, this is pro basketball and you can use them for short stints (btw, ask Coach about a certain 1-3-1 defense...)
I suspect that if D'Antoni says he doesn't like pasta, someone on this forum would say "he's to blame, he doesn't feed them with enough carbs!". Of course, Shawn fell on his elbow, Steve got the flu and Grant had appedicitis because D'Antoni played them too long

I dont blame coach for pasta or Hill, Nash, or Marions injury....

I blame him for his horrendous rotations. We play what 7 maybe 8 guys a game. If you look at some of the stronger teams look at there rotations.

First lets look at San Antonio. They play 10-11 guys on there roster. They develop players and allow there team to not be completely tired come playoff time.

Detroit plays 9-10 guys a game. Boston plays 9-10 guys per game.

We could easily use the following.

Nash, Bell, Diaw, Amare, Marion, Skinner, Barbosa, Banks, Strawberry, Tucker, Hill.

Tucker and Strawberry both have game, they just need some time to develop.

[Coop]

This team we have now is not built for speed as it was a couple years ago. I think we need to work on half court sets. I have seen a few games where we played slower teams and did a pretty decent job with running a half court set.

We need to work on that which should start with going down low to Amare, and let him create his shot, or be able to kick it out for one of our 3 point shooters. I honestly think only Barbosa, Nash, and Marion are really only built for the fast tempo. I think Amare, Hill, Bell, Skinner, and Banks are more suited and could do a great job running a half court set.

All in all I just think its time for the coach to coach!

[Dustbuster]

More than anything last nights game just highlighted the fact that the Suns very heavily depend upon a few key players to make the system work (or to be the system, perhaps). The fact that the team is not prepared to deal with key injuries or that deep bench players are not prepared to step up in their absence should really be no surprise to knowledgeable fans.

The coach doesn't play extended rotations; we have no real training practices. The whole system is designed around keeping the top 8 guys rested enough that they can play all the minutes. Its worked pretty well for the last several years, but this year the deficiencies of the system have been exposed. Where it is really going to hurt us is in the future, when we have to rely on young players that have never been properly developed.

One other observation, which I am assured will not be a popular one. Amare needs to be surrounded with the right players to be effective. He is not fundamentally sound enough to carry a weak team by himself. He wasn't when we were depleted by the Marbury trade and he isn't now. He might try to force things more when he needs to carry the load, but he does not have the fundamentals to carry a team. Teams can pack the paint against him and he mostly just gets frustrated. He doesn't pass out very well. He doesn't have any back to the basket game. He isn't Tim Duncan or even Kevin Garnett. He is a dynamic player when the spacing is right and he gets the ball in the right spots, but his subpar defense, weak fundamentals, and inconsistent rebounding/boxing out will limit his impact upon a team without, say, a Steve Nash type PG.

Strawberry was encouraging last night. That's about the only positive I can take from that game. Diaw was a major disappointment, sore back or not.

[desertcoast]

Regarding Boris, we're learning what the Hawks learned a long time ago. He'll break your heart until you finally realize he'll never play up to his potential.
Boris is done.
He's had a full season and a half to re-discover his 05/06 self.

I have no idea what it takes to motivate a grown man who promised to give maximum effort in exchange for 9 million dollars every year and can't do it.

I trust our staff has tried everything possible, but he's looking like the worst signing the team has made in the last 10 years (a signing that looked reasonably logical at the time).

I was at the Denver game watching that MAKE NOISE video they show where the music pumps and scenes of Suns players come on the screen, jumping around inciting fans to make noise....
There was Boris..JUMPING, WAVING HIS ARMS, SCREAMING AT THE CAMERA!!

All I could think was..."Why can't he do that in a game?" :-|

I've given up on him.

[INFORMER]

More than anything last nights game just highlighted the fact that the Suns very heavily depend upon a few key players to make the system work (or to be the system, perhaps). The fact that the team is not prepared to deal with key injuries or that deep bench players are not prepared to step up in their absence should really be no surprise to knowledgeable fans.

The coach doesn't play extended rotations; we have no real training practices. The whole system is designed around keeping the top 8 guys rested enough that they can play all the minutes. Its worked pretty well for the last several years, but this year the deficiencies of the system have been exposed. Where it is really going to hurt us is in the future, when we have to rely on young players that have never been properly developed.

One other observation, which I am assured will not be a popular one. Amare needs to be surrounded with the right players to be effective. He is not fundamentally sound enough to carry a weak team by himself. He wasn't when we were depleted by the Marbury trade and he isn't now (Informer's Note: I disagree with this. Amare played very well after the Marbury trade). He might try to force things more when he needs to carry the load, but he does not have the fundamentals to carry a team. Teams can pack the paint against him and he mostly just gets frustrated. He doesn't pass out very well. He doesn't have any back to the basket game. He isn't Tim Duncan or even Kevin Garnett. He is a dynamic player when the spacing is right and he gets the ball in the right spots, but his subpar defense, weak fundamentals, and inconsistent rebounding/boxing out will limit his impact upon a team without, say, a Steve Nash type PG.

Strawberry was encouraging last night. That's about the only positive I can take from that game. Diaw was a major disappointment, sore back or not.

Great observations, Dust. Very solid post.

[duck44]

[quote=LU;11158]

I blame him for his horrendous rotations. We play what 7 maybe 8 guys a game. If you look at some of the stronger teams look at there rotations.

First lets look at San Antonio. They play 10-11 guys on there roster. They develop players and allow there team to not be completely tired come playoff time.

Detroit plays 9-10 guys a game. Boston plays 9-10 guys per game.

We could easily use the following.

Nash, Bell, Diaw, Amare, Marion, Skinner, Barbosa, Banks, Strawberry, Tucker, Hill.

Tucker and Strawberry both have game, they just need some time to develop.


The Spurs, Pistons, Mavs, and Celtics all have players that are a Hell of alot better and more experienced than our bench.

[INFORMER]

The Spurs, Pistons, Mavs, and Celtics all have players that are a Hell of alot better and more experienced than our bench.

Have you seen the Celtics' bench?

The state of the Suns' bench can be blamed on four people:

1) Boris Diaw

2) Mike D'Antoni

3) John Salmons

4) Danny Fortson

[Xcon]

God i wish we would have gotten Salmons. God, why didnt you tell him to come play for the Suns?

[INFORMER]

God i wish we would have gotten Salmons. God, why didnt you tell him to come play for the Suns?

He had a very solid season last year and is playing VERY well this season.

[Shabazz]

[quote=LU;11158]

I blame him for his horrendous rotations. We play what 7 maybe 8 guys a game. If you look at some of the stronger teams look at there rotations.

First lets look at San Antonio. They play 10-11 guys on there roster. They develop players and allow there team to not be completely tired come playoff time.

Detroit plays 9-10 guys a game. Boston plays 9-10 guys per game.

We could easily use the following.

Nash, Bell, Diaw, Amare, Marion, Skinner, Barbosa, Banks, Strawberry, Tucker, Hill.

Tucker and Strawberry both have game, they just need some time to develop.


The Spurs, Pistons, Mavs, and Celtics all have players that are a Hell of alot better and more experienced than our bench.

Definitely right about the Pistons, probably right about the Spurs and Mavs, but I think our bench is at more talented than the Celtics' (Barbs,Diaw, Skinner > House, Posey, Big Baby). The common denominator with those teams is a coach who is willing to go beyond 8 players which allows players 9-12 to develop confidence and consistency. I refuse to believe a guy like Jacque Vaughn is a better player than Marcus Banks or even Alando Tucker but he comes in and contributes because he has a role and knows what it is.

[Ring_Wanted]

Our bench doesn't lack talent.

Diaw, Barbosa, Banks, Skinner, Tucker and DJ are one of the more talented benches you can find.

Sadly, talent alone is not enough. You need the desire to materialize that talent (Diaw, Banks), the brains to use your tools properly (Barbs, Banks) and the trust from the coach to develop it (Tucker, DJ, maybe Banks). The guys need to be healthy too.

Hell, I bet if Pike was on the Spurs and played against us, he'd score two key 3s in a playoff game to fuck us.

[wpmiller42]

Has anyone seen this?

NBA orders replay of final 51.9 secs
Wrong scorer's ruling sends Hawks, Heat back out

ATLANTA (AP) -- The Atlanta Hawks and Miami Heat must replay the final 51.9 seconds of their game last month because the NBA said the official scorer ruled incorrectly that Shaquille O'Neal fouled out. This will be the first time since 1982 the league has sent teams back on the court for a replay.

The Hawks won 117-111 at home in overtime Dec. 19. The NBA said Friday the replay will be held before the teams' next scheduled game -- March 8 eld a request for a replay by the San Antonio Spurs after their 137-132 double-overtime loss to the Los Angeles Lakers the previous month.

The Spurs and Lakers finished the game in April 1983, with San Antonio winning 117-114.

The Hawks were leading 112-111 in overtime when O'Neal was called for a foul. The scoring table personnel, who are provided by the home team, ruled it was the Miami center's sixth foul, when actually it was only his fifth.

According to the league, the mistake stemmed from a foul with 3:24 remaining in the fourth quarter that was called on Udonis Haslem but was mistakenly credited to O'Neal at the scoring table.

Stern ruled the Hawks "failed to follow league-mandated scoring procedures and failed to respond effectively when the members of the statisticians' crew noticed the mistake," the NBA said in a statement.

The NBA requires the official scorer to coordinate foul calls with the stat crew during every timeout. That apparently didn't happen in this case, resulting in the mistake going unnoticed until after the game, when the Hawks put out revised boxes showing O'Neal with six fouls.

This isn't the first statistical problem to occur in Atlanta. On Nov. 24, 2006, the official scorer failed to credit Toronto's T.J. Ford with a basket that would have given the Raptors a late tie and an opportunity to change the outcome of a 97-93 loss.

"Because of this conduct by Atlanta's personnel, Miami suffered a clear competitive disadvantage, as O'Neal -- the Heat's second-leading scorer and rebounder that night -- was removed from a one-point game with only 51.9 seconds remaining," the NBA statement said.

Al Horford hit two free throws after O'Neal's foul to give the Hawks a 114-111 lead. Anthony Johnson added a running jumper with 14 seconds left to put the game away.

Now, they'll have to do it over again.



Pretty crazy. Maybe stern will let us replay game 5 of the playoffs last year, since there was obviously a wrong decision made there too.

[Superbone]

Also, it feels like Okur has a lot of big games against us. I saw him basically drive around amare for an easy lay-in last night that absolutely shouldnt happen. 1on1 Post defense. Yea, hes bigger but probably isnt stronger and defintiely isnt quicker or more athletic.

Lay in? He posterized Amare with a strong dunk.

[JediSkywalker]

I want Stern to make the Spurs and Suns play game 5 of last season's semifinals, and if the Suns win, play game 7 (SA has been already credited with game 6 win), then replay the whole conference final if the Suns win the series after the replay. Then replay the whole NBA finals.

[SunsRIt]

I want Stern to make the Spurs and Suns play game 5 of last season's semifinals, and if the Suns win, play game 7 (SA has been already credited with game 6 win), then replay the whole conference final if the Suns win the series after the replay. Then replay the whole NBA finals.

My thoughts exactly. Stern is such a prick bastard.

[scosuns]

We did ok for 2 and a half quarters, and then lost it in the third quarter. But, you couldn't have expected us to win. Also, DJ looked pretty good in his garbage minutes.

[BobbyDogg]

Not that it matters but the radio at work was tuned into ESPN this morning and they were discussing with NBA Insiders (I can't remember who at the moment) the current state of the Suns.

They acknowledged that the Suns were severly shorthanded in the Utah game but were especially critical of the complete lack of "fire" and "effort" that they have come to expect. Especially targeted was Amare. They discussed his inability to guard the basket, box out and pass the ball as reasons for his team mates to "reject" him as a true leader of the team, and that included Nash.

They closed the discussion by comparing the Suns to the Kings a few years ago: a lot of fun to watch and root for but not strong enough to win it all. They felt like the Suns peaked with this group last season and were on the downward side.

I don't know what else they said after that because I changed the station....
Freakin rat bastards.

[scosuns]

I don't blame them. The Suns played ok for 2 and a half quarters. They didn't have that same fire, and that was evident. I think they knew they would lose. And Amare should have dominated much more. There's just something that doesn't click with this team this year. Whether or not we should make a trade is up to the management. I think this team is missing something, and that would be a true Center that can defend. But, they're not easy to find or get. Whatever the case, this team still lacks something.

[sunsdotcom]

Also, it feels like Okur has a lot of big games against us. I saw him basically drive around amare for an easy lay-in last night that absolutely shouldnt happen. 1on1 Post defense. Yea, hes bigger but probably isnt stronger and defintiely isnt quicker or more athletic.

Lay in? He posterized Amare with a strong dunk.

wasnt there a reverse layup by okur?


I refuse to believe a guy like Jacque Vaughn is a better player than Marcus Banks

he may not be as physically gifted as banks, but he's less clueless.

[gladiator]

I don't blame them. The Suns played ok for 2 and a half quarters. They didn't have that same fire, and that was evident. I think they knew they would lose. And Amare should have dominated much more. There's just something that doesn't click with this team this year. Whether or not we should make a trade is up to the management. I think this team is missing something, and that would be a true Center that can defend. But, they're not easy to find or get. Whatever the case, this team still lacks something.

I'm not sure it's fair to hang it off Amare for not dominating more. Half-way through the 1st quarter his only two field goal attempts were on offensive rebounds. Tough to dominate without the board.

As for his defence, it wasn't great ... it wasn't even good. But if I'd had a beer for every time I heard "player x blows past diaw" on the telecast, I would have been taken to hospital with alcohol poisoning. And the perimeter defence was terrible too. So plenty of blame to be shared around on that half of the floor.

Given the personnel the Suns had, I'm not sure there's much to be taken from this game at all (except the truly staggering matter of Pike getting 18 minutes ... that shouldn't happen under any circumstances ever)

[RDM2]

Amare just needs one true big man backing him up. And for 4 plus years we've managed to avoid ever even trying for one.

[scosuns]

Exactly! Why the hell are the Suns playing an old washed up guy when they could be playing and developing their rookies? I'm glad DJ got some time, but Alando Tucker didn't get any. I'm not sure if he's injured, because if he's not, then that is the stupidest thing D'Antoni could have done. Anyways, he has done some stupid things, but nonetheless, we are 25-11. Still, play your rooks over washed up benchwarmers.

[jkalldaway]

Tucker is in the D league.

[Phoenix219]

I want Stern to make the Spurs and Suns play game 5 of last season's semifinals, and if the Suns win, play game 7 (SA has been already credited with game 6 win), then replay the whole conference final if the Suns win the series after the replay. Then replay the whole NBA finals.

That would be fucking awesome. Would we get KT and James Jones back for the game? If we won, would we be able to take back the KT salary dump, JR and our draft picks? Haha.

[JediSkywalker]

Exactly! Why the hell are the Suns playing an old washed up guy when they could be playing and developing their rookies? I'm glad DJ got some time, but Alando Tucker didn't get any. I'm not sure if he's injured, because if he's not, then that is the stupidest thing D'Antoni could have done. Anyways, he has done some stupid things, but nonetheless, we are 25-11. Still, play your rooks over washed up benchwarmers.


Alando left for the D league just as DJ returned. The original plan was to play both of them in the D league but they asked DJ to return to Phx because the team is short handed. Alando is going to play just two games this time in the D league, for the same reason. At least that's what I read yesterday morning.

The real mistakes were made couple years ago when the Suns could have drafted a couple of quality players (Sergio being one of them; also Rudy Gay was a pretty good choice). They would have been ready by now to take over in exactly the kind of situation the Suns are faced with right now.

Last night I felt that after the first half the Suns packed it in. They never believed that they could actually beat Utah. They seemed satisfied with an OK first half. I would put the blame on Dantoni for not making them believe that they could win the game. They seemed to believe they would lose and they played like it.

[JediSkywalker]

I want Stern to make the Spurs and Suns play game 5 of last season's semifinals, and if the Suns win, play game 7 (SA has been already credited with game 6 win), then replay the whole conference final if the Suns win the series after the replay. Then replay the whole NBA finals.

That would be fucking awesome. Would we get KT and James Jones back for the game? If we won, would we be able to take back the KT salary dump, JR and our draft picks? Haha.


Sure, if we could time travel.

[Phoenix219]

What does time travel have to do with it? I'm going with the fantasy you put out there - getting to replay that game, and thus, the following series. But if we truly got to do that (which we never will, but in the realm of your fantasy here) - why would they rematch the game with this years rosters instead of last years? Thus... if we won... would we have broken up our championship squad? This fantasy opens up many doors of questions lol.

[JediSkywalker]

I love the fantasy, particularly right now because the reality is just too much to bear.


To answer your question, had we won the title, I believe they would still have broken up the team, sending KT (plus two 1st rounders) to Seattle and JR to Portland. The issue was salary cap/luxury tax, in thost trades. However, had we won the title before those trades, I think the fans might have been somewhat tolerant of it.

[Phoenix219]

Ehh, i dunno. If we had won, and had the revenue from the title run, and a squad that wanted to defend their title, and still added skinner and the rooks, we might be in good shape.

My favorite fantasy is either: The team with Kidd, KJ, Nash and Dice running Coach D'A's offense, or the one where we keep JJ instead of Diaw for 9 mil, TT instead of Banks, and House instead of Pike, then still send a 2nd rounder over for Diaw but without the big pay day.

[Miamisun]

I am just irritated that coach can't seem to get more out of the players he had available last night. I have never in all my years watching the NBA seen a coach more narrow minded in his thinking than Coach D. I could get into specifics about last night but why bother, frustrating to see the window closing and have it be because of coaching.

[JediSkywalker]

Ehh, i dunno. If we had won, and had the revenue from the title run, and a squad that wanted to defend their title, and still added skinner and the rooks, we might be in good shape.

My favorite fantasy is either: The team with Kidd, KJ, Nash and Dice running Coach D'A's offense, or the one where we keep JJ instead of Diaw for 9 mil, TT instead of Banks, and House instead of Pike, then still send a 2nd rounder over for Diaw but without the big pay day.

I love the second one.

[JediSkywalker]

I am just irritated that coach can't seem to get more out of the players he had available last night. I have never in all my years watching the NBA seen a coach more narrow minded in his thinking than Coach D. I could get into specifics about last night but why bother, frustrating to see the window closing and have it be because of coaching.

It is even more frustrating to see Dallas do so much better. The Mavs and the Suns are two talented teams going in opposite directions. Dantoni showed no creativity at all last night, when he still had 9 talented players available. Look at how other short handed teams have played- case in point Indiana against the Suns.

[EDC]

More than anything last nights game just highlighted the fact that the Suns very heavily depend upon a few key players to make the system work (or to be the system, perhaps). The fact that the team is not prepared to deal with key injuries or that deep bench players are not prepared to step up in their absence should really be no surprise to knowledgeable fans.

The coach doesn't play extended rotations; we have no real training practices. The whole system is designed around keeping the top 8 guys rested enough that they can play all the minutes. Its worked pretty well for the last several years, but this year the deficiencies of the system have been exposed. Where it is really going to hurt us is in the future, when we have to rely on young players that have never been properly developed.

One other observation, which I am assured will not be a popular one. Amare needs to be surrounded with the right players to be effective. He is not fundamentally sound enough to carry a weak team by himself. He wasn't when we were depleted by the Marbury trade and he isn't now. He might try to force things more when he needs to carry the load, but he does not have the fundamentals to carry a team. Teams can pack the paint against him and he mostly just gets frustrated. He doesn't pass out very well. He doesn't have any back to the basket game. He isn't Tim Duncan or even Kevin Garnett. He is a dynamic player when the spacing is right and he gets the ball in the right spots, but his subpar defense, weak fundamentals, and inconsistent rebounding/boxing out will limit his impact upon a team without, say, a Steve Nash type PG.

Strawberry was encouraging last night. That's about the only positive I can take from that game. Diaw was a major disappointment, sore back or not.

Ouch! I do agree with you though. Amare is not that great in the post atm. I do believe that if the system shifted to an inside-out game that he would learn. I think it is pretty telling that Amare worked on a 3pt shot in the offseason. Do we honestly believe that it has nothing to do with the coach and his system? I honestly think if Pops or Phil were coaching Amare these past few years that he would be a dominating back to the basket player by now. He has a jump shot he just needs to work on the turn around jump shot.

His rebounding isn't horrible. The teams is and so he looks even worse. Amare was fine with Marbury. He scores just fine without Nash on the floor. We have seen him have very good games without Nash. The problem is the rest of the team looks like absolute crap when Nash isn't there. That is because we have no offense besides Nash running around picks and making something happen.

Either way I think a majority of the blame has to go to the coach. He has had the talent but he has failed to really build anything great. We have done decent in the playoffs based mostly on Nash's ability to create and him having great athletes around him. What is amazing is we have pushed San Antonio. Imagine if we had a real system in place for when the game slowed down. We would be so hard to beat.

Ah well I guess it is just best not to think about the future of this team. To just enjoy wins now. The future looks very iffy with Coach D around. Eventually Nash will run out of steam and then we become a lottery team. Hopefully after that year Coach D is replaced and we can start to rebuild something good with the new coach. I hope Amare isn't too old by then. :)

[sunsdotcom]

yeah right...
- this is a team with many passive defenders, and you want them to have even less individual responsibility and play more zone?
- a team which lacks rebounding and you want more zone?
- a small team which needs to run and you want more zone?

... good call...

LU, i'd rather san antonio beat us from the outside than for duncan or parker to score at will. by playing zone you neutralize two of their top three players--parker and duncan. i'd always prefer parker shooting jumpers than hitting his high percentage teardrop shots.

- if we don't have any intention of getting another big, if we are going to play the same small ball style vs. san antonio or the lakers, then let's play some zone so we can hide amare's deficiences on defense.

- i would rather games be an outside shooting contest with the opposing team than they beat us inside.


- a team which has no big stiffs and you want more zone?


- the zone is ideal for our team because like you said, we have no big stiffs, we can play an aggressive zone like portland's (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-427/The-Playbook--Portland-Assistant-Coach-Dean-Demopoulos.html)because we have quick players who can easily recover...

[ShelC]

Stern ruled the Hawks "failed to follow league-mandated scoring procedures and failed to respond effectively when the members of the statisticians' crew noticed the mistake," the NBA said in a statement.

"Because of this conduct by Atlanta's personnel, Miami suffered a clear competitive disadvantage, as O'Neal -- the Heat's second-leading scorer and rebounder that night -- was removed from a one-point game with only 51.9 seconds remaining," the NBA statement said.

I found this incident and subsequent action from the league quite interesting. Stern will defend his referees to the teeth. He will not, under any circumstances, admit wrongdoing or reverse calls due to a ref's error. Yet, when its team personnel that messes up he's quick to put out a statement and do the correct thing. There was an incident in Orlando just a week ago that involved the refs blowing a call off Foyles miss. The problem was necessarily the blown call, but that the refs apparently didnt follow procedure by making a call on the floor and then going to the replay to possibly reverse it. They simply froze up, looked at each other and then walked to the scorers table to determine the call. The NBA put out a statement the next day i think admonishing the refs of wrongdoing. But the fact is they shouldve at least made a call on the floor, which was SVGs main gripe. But the league always protects the refs. You joke that the Spurs and Suns should be sent out to replay Game 5, but youre not that crazy. In a critical game like that and a ref calling it whos known for gambling, it shouldnt have been taken so lightly by the league.

[desertcoast]

Would we get KT and James Jones back for the game?

Which James Jones...last year's model or this year's? :wink:

[ShelC]

James Jones is a douche IMO. He didnt do anything for us, had 1 good month last year and started running his mouth IIRC. He gave one quote in particular about how great the team was and how tough we were to beat, coming off as if he had anything to do with it. This year apparently is no different. Sometime in the last week or so Jones made a comment to the media after they ripped off a couple of games in a row, saying, "We're for real". McMillan ripped the team for it and kind of knocked them back down a few notches, but that shows you what kind of character the guy is. I know he has a rep of being a good guy and hard worker, but it also seems like hes real cocky and quick to make bold statements just to get his name out there. Im really glad hes off the team, might be one of my least favorite suns of all time. Unlike Boris ;)

[Phoenix219]

It doesn't seem like he is putting his name in particular out there, and is just proud of his teams and buying into the whole concept. Don't have much of a problem with his comments.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Amare just needs one true big man backing him up. And for 4 plus years we've managed to avoid ever even trying for one.


That is true...Why did piat get playing tim b4 DJ? Piat is useless...I hate those articles and people just saying Nashless suns when Hill, and Marion was out as well..Thats 2 all stars missing besides Nash

[Phoenix219]

I've said it a million times, we've never seen what the team would be like without Marion... i still think he is key.

Of course, theres no merit to that, because we were just without Nash, too..

[ShelC]

I've said it a million times, we've never seen what the team would be like without Marion... i still think he is key.

He's key but no ones irreplaceable. As valuable as shawn is to our system overall, i also think he enables MikeD to use his versatility to the detriment of the team. Thats not a knock or a slight on Shawn, its a credit to his skills. But because shawn is willing to play out of position and is still productive doing so, it causes us to be less balanced on the roster/lineup and less balanced defensively. If Shawn were only a 3, we'd have to find a big capable of rebounding, running the floor and blocking shots and MikeD would have to play him. Instead, we get away with Shawn at the 4 most times, even tho we lose the rebounding battle 90% of the time. Yea, shawn grabs his double digit rebounds but he also has trouble blocking out the bigger players hes guarding. If you were to put him at the 3 spot, he'd probably still grab his 8-10 boards and youd also hopefuly have a big thats getting his 8-10 boards along with Amares boards. People always talk about how undersized we are and how Amares a smaller center. But Amares size isnt the problem at the 5 so much as Shawns size (or lack thereof) is at the 4spot.

Shawn also covers up a lot of defensive defiencies with his athleticsm and natural instincts. But if we didnt have him, MikeD would have to actually coach defense and hold players accountable for being in position and sticking to a defensive strategy, not this gimmicky switching BS.

[Ring_Wanted]

Who can argue Marion, along with Nash and D'Antoni are the reason we play our style? We are designed to be smaller and get outrebounded. Also, to be more versatile, quicker and better scorers.

Without Marion, the system just doesn't work. Is that a bad thing? It depends on how much you believe in it. It seems after almost 4 years some guys are fed up. With no Finals trip, can anyone blame them?

[ShelC]

Its interesting to wonder whether the Spurs fiasco actually saved MikeDs job. Had we lost at full strength, would he have another shot? Had we beaten the spurs and then lost to the Jazz or Cavs, would he be here with his system?

[Ring_Wanted]

Kerr's hiring certified the change of hands of the franchise. Mike D is the old guard, but so much has been invested on his vision, that it's unlikely he's fired while the Nash lasts here. In that regard, Nash is the best shield Mike D could ever had. How do you fire the coach that best fits the guy who turned this franchise around?

In my opinion, unless things get really bad, the coach won't be fired. Some players will be moved before it happens, in the case we can't get to the finals or even win it all this year, depending on the FO's patience.

[JediSkywalker]

I've said it a million times, we've never seen what the team would be like without Marion... i still think he is key.

Of course, theres no merit to that, because we were just without Nash, too..


Last season Marion missed 2 or 3 games and I don't remember the outcome.

The Suns defense is so weak that losing one of the few defensive players on the team can cost a lot more than it would on one of the other top teams in the league.

[JediSkywalker]

Who can argue Marion, along with Nash and D'Antoni are the reason we play our style? We are designed to be smaller and get outrebounded. Also, to be more versatile, quicker and better scorers.

Without Marion, the system just doesn't work. Is that a bad thing? It depends on how much you believe in it. It seems after almost 4 years some guys are fed up. With no Finals trip, can anyone blame them?

I cannot blame them. It's been hard on the fans, so it must be 10x harder for the players- it's their career. After watching Marion this season (even though he was off in some games) I feel the Suns should spend the money and keep the guy for 2-3 more years.

[ShelC]

I think Nash is well rounded enough to play in any kind of system. He may not prefer a restrictive, slowed down type of game, but i dont think he'd struggle with it the way Shawn or Barbs might. The biggest problem may be playing for a guy whos not a laid-back players such as MikeD seems to be. Thats where a guy like Carlisle (who, like Skiles, has had personality conflicts) may not be the best option.

[Mori_Chu]

James Jones is a douche IMO. He didnt do anything for us, had 1 good month last year and started running his mouth IIRC. He gave one quote in particular about how great the team was and how tough we were to beat, coming off as if he had anything to do with it. This year apparently is no different. Sometime in the last week or so Jones made a comment to the media after they ripped off a couple of games in a row, saying, "We're for real". McMillan ripped the team for it and kind of knocked them back down a few notches, but that shows you what kind of character the guy is. I know he has a rep of being a good guy and hard worker, but it also seems like hes real cocky and quick to make bold statements just to get his name out there. Im really glad hes off the team, might be one of my least favorite suns of all time. Unlike Boris

But when he was here, his confidence was a big issue. He locked up during games. I'm happy to hear him showing a bit of bravado. And he's not really self-aggrandizing, more complimenting the success of his team.

Good for him, and I'm glad he is playing so well. I regret us losing him at least as much as I do losing KT.

[Xcon]

I've said it a million times, we've never seen what the team would be like without Marion... i still think he is key.

Of course, theres no merit to that, because we were just without Nash, too..

Haven't we seen this each time we've played the Spurs in the playoffs? Or was it that Bruce Bowen was guarding him? ;-)

[JediSkywalker]

I wonder if JR felt intimidated in Phoenix, playing with the superstars? Seattle has Kevin Durant, who is already a superstar but he is a rookie and it is a young team. May be that's why JR feels more comfortable there and as a result he is playing better too. Now, if we had a good replacement for him in PHx, this would have been considered a win win deal.

[ShelC]

Yea except JR plays in Portland with Roy and Aldridge. ;)

if we had a good replacement for him in PHx, this would have been considered a win win deal

Grant Hill wants to have a chat with you.

[SwingMan]

?

Jones is in Portland, Vash.....

[Ring_Wanted]

I think you mean Portland and Roy, NVF.

[JediSkywalker]

Yea except JR plays in Portland with Roy and Aldridge. ;)

if we had a good replacement for him in PHx, this would have been considered a win win deal

Grant Hill wants to have a chat with you.

I got mixed up. :oops:Sorry about that. Portland is even better, for lack of superstars. The only superstar Greg Oden is not even playing this season. Less intimidation.

[JediSkywalker]

Yea except JR plays in Portland with Roy and Aldridge. ;)

if we had a good replacement for him in PHx, this would have been considered a win win deal

Grant Hill wants to have a chat with you.

We would have gotten Grant Hill even if we had not traded JR and KT, and he has been fantastic.

[ShelC]

Getting rid of JR opened up the roster spot tho.

[scosuns]

So JR did something good for this team in the end, didn't he?

[ShelC]

Yup. Addition by subtraction.

[illmatic]

Yea except JR plays in Portland with Roy and Aldridge. ;)

if we had a good replacement for him in PHx, this would have been considered a win win deal

Grant Hill wants to have a chat with you.

I got mixed up. :oops:Sorry about that. Portland is even better, for lack of superstars. The only superstar Greg Oden is not even playing this season. Less intimidation.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Greg Oden is NOT a superstar considering he hasn't played a single minute in the NBA. Future superstar maybe. Superstars are like Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, or Garnett.

[sunsdotcom]

Without Marion, the system just doesn't work. Is that a bad thing? It depends on how much you believe in it. It seems after almost 4 years some guys are fed up. With no Finals trip, can anyone blame them?

yes, SMALL ball won't work. but does that mean this team will be unable to run AND play better without marion--the answer is an unequivocal NO.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

D'Antoni is the worst coach I have ever seen. He doesn't know how to play shorthanded and win. Why play Pike b4 DJ and Alando?

[Nate]

D'Antoni is the worst coach I have ever seen.Why play Pike b4 DJ and Alando?

You have not seen a lot then, haven't you? :-)



Why play Pike b4 DJ and Alando?

Ask Scott Skiles about the ******!

[desertcoast]

Who can argue Marion, along with Nash and D'Antoni are the reason we play our style? We are designed to be smaller and get outrebounded. Also, to be more versatile, quicker and better scorers.

Without Marion, the system just doesn't work. Is that a bad thing? It depends on how much you believe in it. It seems after almost 4 years some guys are fed up. With no Finals trip, can anyone blame them?

I cannot blame them. It's been hard on the fans, so it must be 10x harder for the players- it's their career. After watching Marion this season (even though he was off in some games) I feel the Suns should spend the money and keep the guy for 2-3 more years.

I don't see Sarver spending more money on the exact same core that has failed to deliver the desired results ( a ring).
Last 2 years, one could cite extenuating circumstances. Patience will run out if this year isn't it.

[Mori_Chu]

Patience will run out if this year isn't it.

It probably will. But I was thinking about this lately, and I believe that we can be just as good next year as we are this year. We won't lose any major pieces if Grant Hill is still around. Skinner might leave, but hopefully we could either get him to sign another contract or replace him with another bench big man. Our core guys should still be able to go for one more year. Why not just give it another try? I feel like each year our group gets closer to figuring this out.

If anything, I'd advocate changing the coach, so that we could get a leader in place whose strategies are more in line with the group of guys we have.

[JediSkywalker]

Patience will run out if this year isn't it.

It probably will. But I was thinking about this lately, and I believe that we can be just as good next year as we are this year. We won't lose any major pieces if Grant Hill is still around. Skinner might leave, but hopefully we could either get him to sign another contract or replace him with another bench big man. Our core guys should still be able to go for one more year. Why not just give it another try? I feel like each year our group gets closer to figuring this out.

If anything, I'd advocate changing the coach, so that we could get a leader in place whose strategies are more in line with the group of guys we have.

I hope we won't have to see another year of Pike or Marks- nothing personal. I just don't see how they contribute to the team. I hope to find a rookie next year- through Atlanta's pick. It does not have to be a lottery pick or a top 10 pick. Any new blood in this organization will help- if not now, then couple years later. It may be difficult to retain Marion unless he softens his money demands; Sarver is not going to pay him a lot of money, no matter how important he is to the team. With Marion gone, I think the Suns will have to find someone that can fill his shoes- for a low low price. It won't be easy, and the Suns will not be as good as they are this year, even if Hill stays.

If we change the coach, we might be looking at a whole different style- more traditional in the NBA- and a lot of players will be let go. The rebuilding will start at that point. I think all is going to depend on what happens in the post season this year.

[ShelC]

Theyre practice players who will come in and be pros. They know they wont play, but will approach it properly and "come to work". You dont always get that with rookies who may want to play or other veterans who expect playing time (JuJo, Rose, Burke).

[Ring_Wanted]

That's all they have to offer: Profissionalism, a smile and not complaining when they don't play.

That's the exact reason why Pike should never get a minute over DJ or Tucker. Even if Mike D doesn't trust the rookies, it's so clear Pike is done that he has nothing to lose putting Strawberry or Tucker out there. It's the smart thing to do, specially because it would soften some of the critics he's gotten and would appease some fans. And who knows, maybe they could surprise Mike and contribute in some grade.

[Mori_Chu]

Let's not forget, Pike is enough of a vet that the league actually pays over half his salary. That has to be appealing to Sarver. Which would he rather have: A vet like Pike who won't complain, and to whom he really only has to pay $1/2 M, or a younger player who practically speaking costs twice as much, who will probably pout about his lack of floor time?

[Ring_Wanted]

I think every min contract has some % paid by the L, so in that regard, it doesn't matter if we have Pike or JuJo. Now, I agree wirh the not complaining part. If Mike D is not going to play a guy, I prefer that player to be Pike instead of Burke, since he doesn't create problems. What I don't get is if he gives some minutes, why not play DJ instead of the done guy?