Game Day: Suns @ Jazz

[Spanky]

Nash out, who will take the reigns?

Dis∙cuss

[jed]

We should just keep dumping the ball low all night. But, instead, Barbosa, Bell and whoever else will jack it up for 15+ shots apiece.

[Wormwood]

Nash out against a good team? Hooo boy, buckle up, 'cause this is gonna suck.

Jazz 103 Suns 85

[fixxxer]

Nash out against a good team? Hooo boy, buckle up, 'cause this is gonna suck.

Jazz 103 Suns 85Without Nash, we're the underdogs vs. the Jazz, and it's liberating as hell! Nash is my favourite basketball player of all time. By far. And this is prolly the game I've looked forward to the most thus far this season.

Go Banks!

(Now I feel cheap, vulgar and intrinsically fucked up. :mrgreen:)

[Nodack]

Should be interesting at least.

I hope Amare goes off. Last night he got into foul trouble early and sat on the bench a lot. He better not do that tonight.

[sehan]

I am cautiously optimistic.

This will be a great learning game for Barbs and Amare. Especially on learning how to play together. Also if they do dump it down to Amare for the whole game, as we hope they will, at some point the doubles are going to come hard. It will be interesting to see how he handles that.

I am actually hoping that Nash seats out 1 or 2 more games: 1) to rest his ailing body and 2) to see what we really have without him.

The worst thing that could happen is we loose couple of games and his teammates are even more appreciative of what Nash brings every night (put all this alpha dog discussion to rest). Couple of more losses at this point in the season is not a big deal to me.

[y2jjedipimp]

Suns 93-Jazz 92. Someone is going to step-up. I think that will be STAT. Marion will get shut down by AK47 and Andre will have his usual near quadruple-double against us like he usually does. Banks will have an off night. Somehow we will find a way to win.

[duck44]

[QUOTE=Wormwood;10982]Nash out against a good team? Hooo boy, buckle up, 'cause this is gonna suck.




Actually the Suns were 2.5 point dogs before Nash got sick and before Marion got hurt.

[BigLewy]

I have a strong feeling we will see a monster game out of Boris. With Nash and Hill out, he is the one true playmaker. However, I have a very hard time believing that the Suns will stay within double digits tonight.

Jazz 111
Suns 96

[Xcon]

This is going to be a great barometer for Amare. Utah has a big physical front line. Look to Amare and Barbosa to carry to offensive load with Nash and Grant out.

[Wormwood]

Is Marion out now too?

Without Hill and Nash, it reminds me of the game in 2005-2006 against San Antonio where Nash was hurt, and Barbosa had a testicular torsion <OUCH> . We were massacred. This just feels too similar.

[SunsFan4Life]

Jazz give us a hard time even when we're healthy...Here's hoping Tucker gets some run atleast in the 1st half

Jazz 103
Suns 95

[Wormwood]

No Marion tonight apparently. He's out.

If so,

Jazz 113 Suns 81

This is like a pre-season game where you have to not care about the outcome, and just watch the rookies to see what they can do. Otherwise you're in for a long, unpleasant evening.

On that note, please, no Eric Frakking Piatkowski. Useless at both ends, and in a game like ths where there's not a lot of hope anyway, we really ought to be using it to see what the youngsters can do when it's not total garbage time.

[SpecialSauce]

Is it bad that I'm really excited for this game? It's always nice to see something new, even if it's not under the best of circumstances.

[sehan]

Sauce, I am psyched as well. Don't know why, just am.

haha.

[ShelC]

I intrigued definitely, just to see something different. Maybe we as fans dont feel the pressure that would come if both teams were full strength. Tonight we can just relax, enjoy the game, know it doesnt mean anything overall and see how our guys adjust, who steps up, maybe get a look at the rooks or see the offense really revolve around amare, etc. Sad part is i probably wont even get to see the game cuz i gotta wake up early.

[AmareIsGod]

I'm stoaked too Sauce! I'm excited to see some guys we usually don't get to see play some meaningful minutes. I'm excited because, for once, we aren't expected to win. I'd like to see us play hard and make it a contest. Most of all, I'd like to see some of the guys who don't get burn, especially Banks, Tucker and DJ step up and prove to coach they are worth a damn. DJ got called up, FYI, for those who don't know already.

[BigLewy]

Imagine if they come out balls to the wall and somehow win this game. It could be a turning point in the season and be a great morale booster.

[SpecialSauce]

I'm stoaked too Sauce! I'm excited to see some guys we usually don't get to see play some meaningful minutes. I'm excited because, for once, we aren't expected to win. I'd like to see us play hard and make it a contest. Most of all, I'd like to see some of the guys who don't get burn, especially Banks, Tucker and DJ step up and prove to coach they are worth a damn. DJ got called up, FYI, for those who don't know already.

I think you summed up my feelings perfectly.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

I hope we play a more traditional lineup, but I doubt it happens...Feed STAT..Suns win

[sunsdotcom]

finally they went to amare.

[sunsdotcom]

i want amare to play 40+ minutes this game and let's get him some traditional post up opportunities.

[cap]

Get a load of Collins and Harlan gushing about what a great guy Carlos Boozer is. I’m going to throw up.

[sunsdotcom]

no foul called on amare's defender?

[sunsdotcom]

don't take amare out even if he gets into foul trouble. and pls play boris 40+ minutes.

[ShelC]

Yea this game is gonna be ugly fellas.

[AZSportsFan]

Nothing is worse than a three-point specialist who can't hit the three.....

[sunsdotcom]

haha, that's pike!

[SunsFan4Life]

Barbosa has 16...anyone want to make a bet he goes for 40 tonight? haha.

God Pike in before DJ and Tuck

[y2jjedipimp]

Pike if you cant hit a wide open 3.....what can you do?

nice job of playing keep away from Amare

Barbosa doing his best Kobe keep away from his teammates impersonation.

ummm positives...lets see here...oh Marks's new hairdo

[ShelC]

So Barbs get a pass for being selfish because hes a wide-eyed, assuming, loveable foreigner?

If a guy takes a lot of shots but is nice about it, is he still not selfish? If Kobe had Barbs' wide eyed, lost, expression then would people love him and forgive him?

[AZSportsFan]

Poor offense. Pike is a waste! Actually a detriment. Stood there not doing anything watching Amare try to save the ball.

[SunsFan4Life]

Playing 7 players is bugging the shit out of me. Get Barbs back in there God damnit

[SunsFan4Life]

Please why are people taking diggs at Barbs? The Only way we even come close to winning tonight is if he can Stat go for like 75 combiend and Coach probably told both of them that.

God I thought Pike could shoot?

[AZSportsFan]

Looks like the Banks success was short-lived.... :)

[sunsdotcom]

gang rebound guys.

[SunsFan4Life]

Wihtin 5

[sunsdotcom]

gang rebound and no more leaking towards the basket, except for barbosa. and stay in the zone defense, to keep amare out of foul trouble.

[AlanS]

The Suns could easily be ahead if they make open shots, and they've had many open shots. I guess this expalins why some guys start and some guys don't.

[ShelC]

Please why are people taking diggs at Barbs?

Cuz theres a difference between getting a good shot in the offense and just coming down and jacking without even looking for teammates or pulling it out and resetting if nothing is there. If banks or Raja or Amare came in and just took the 1st shot available every time we'd be killing them for it.

[sunsdotcom]

all five players need to go to the boards. cuz we dont have nash and marion to play our fastbreak offense

[sunsdotcom]

The Suns could easily be ahead if they make open shots, and they've had many open shots. I guess tis expalins why some guys start and some guys don't.

the same thing can be said for utah.

[AZSportsFan]

Wow, a double-teaming zone. That WON'T work!

[SunsFan4Life]

Jeeze C'mon he was falling down before Babrs even touched him

[SunsFan4Life]

Why Even have rookies? I means eriously if they cant get minutes with 3 starters out what chance do they even have?

[AZSportsFan]

Barbosa can score, but he still plays pretty dumb. I want the Banks that can shoot. Amare hasn't given up yet, at least. But they can't win with this poor perimeter defense.

[darrkin]

Coach D can go, take his lover Diaw with him....these guys just cant seem to get it. I hate how soft we are. I would rather get beat and have some toughness and better athleticism with Tucker and or Straw.

[AlanS]

Banks is just not doing it. I may be projecting, but I get the sense that he's feeling the pressure of having to perform, and it's throwing him off his game.

One thing he has going for him tonight: he'll get the minutes to play thru his mistakes. I hope he takes advantage and plays better in the 2nd half

[darrkin]

Ona postive note, Amare is looking good at least on offense anyway....

[AZSportsFan]

OK half on offense, but defense is indefensible. Coaches should be ashamed. Don't want to see Pike again on the floor. Would rather see Straw than Banks, but he prolly isn't with the team.

[Miamisun]

dreadful to watch. Are there any plays being run or is this pretty much a free for all?

[Spanky]

It could be a lot worse. 3 starters out and only down 10 on the road in Utah? They hung with em for most of that half.

[SunsFan4Life]

Straw is with the team he is sitting on the bench with Marks didn't see Tucker there but i'm guessing he is there.

Down 10 at the half Raja looked like was was gonna keel over at the end there Coach is gonna kill us by only playing 7 guys

[y2jjedipimp]

Why Even have rookies? I means eriously if they cant get minutes with 3 starters out what chance do they even have?

AMEN


if they cant get into this game why even have them?

such a waste of talent. I'll be on wee need a new coach bandwaggon after this game...not for the loss but for not even putting us in position to try to win. Bell is dogging it and STAT is dogging it on D because hes pissed hes not getting it on O

[Coop]

When they showed a shot of the bench I saw Strawberry standing there. So he is there.

[y2jjedipimp]

When they showed a shot of the bench I saw Strawberry standing there. So he is there.

i think the debate is wether or not Tucker is there

[Coop]

I think it is rediculous that Strawberry or Tucker cant get some time but coach brings Pike in???? He is bout worthless. Everyone talks about his 3 point shooting but god damn every chance he has ever had in game time he never hits anythign. I know the minutes he gets are scarce but come on..... we have better options.

[Spanky]

on a side note, offensive rebounding is the factor right now. What a surprise.

[AmareIsGod]

If DJ and Tucker can't get any burn in the 2nd half, I'm going to take a shit, watch some porn, bust a nut and goto bed. It's pathetic that these guys can't see the light of day with THREE STARTERS OUT yet we see Piatkowski out there doing nothing for us, like usual. Coach D needs to get his head out of his ass and play his rookies. JESUS H CHRIST. I agree with Charles for once. We have a good bench. Use it.

[AlanS]

I think it is rediculous that Strawberry or Tucker cant get some time but coach brings Pike in???? He is bout worthless. Everyone talks about his 3 point shooting but god damn every chance he has ever had in game time he never hits anythign. I know the minutes he gets are scarce but come on..... we have better options.

What proof is there that Tucker or Straw are better options?

I think the people who want to see them will get their wish. I foresee the Jazz getting a big lead, and D'Antoni emptying his bench.

----

This is a wish that hope will come true: D'Antoni starts the 2nd half with Stat, Amare, Diaw, Bell, and Barbosa. It won't happen... but it's ok to wish, true?

[Shabazz]

Up until now I've tried to remain somewhat optimistic about Diaw, but I'm done. The team is relying on him today and he has 1 rebound in 20 minutes as one of 3 froncourt players in the game for us.

Excuse the hyperbole, but is there a worse rebounder in the NBA than Diaw when you factor in his size and athleticism? His help defense is also atrocious. He's just a passable man-to-man defender. I mean, what is this guy giving us at that end of the court. Bupkis.

If we don't see DJ tonight we won't see him all season. Why coach is going to Pike is beyond me. He's one of the most useless players in the NBA. At least play Marks instead of him, he can shoot just as well and would probably do a better job on the boards.

Suns are hanging in there, but this game is tough to watch. There's nothing more frustrating than watching a team give up offensive rebounds and that's our specialty.

And Barbosa is a scorer. He's supposed to look for his offense, especially tonight. I'd rather he put his head down and take it to the hole than kick it out to an open Pike. He also had a few nice dishes to Amare in the 2nd quarter.

[Coop]

I think it is rediculous that Strawberry or Tucker cant get some time but coach brings Pike in???? He is bout worthless. Everyone talks about his 3 point shooting but god damn every chance he has ever had in game time he never hits anythign. I know the minutes he gets are scarce but come on..... we have better options.

What proof is there that Tucker or Straw are better options?

I think the people who want to see them will get thier wish. I foresee the Jazz getting a big lead, and D'Antoni emptying his bench.


There is no proof. They NEVER get to play.

[Shabazz]

Also, I think Tucker is in the D-League tonight.

[darrkin]

If DJ and Tucker can't get any burn in the 2nd half, I'm going to take a shit, watch some porn, bust a nut and goto bed. It's pathetic that these guys can't see the light of day with THREE STARTERS OUT yet we see Piatkowski out there doing nothing for us, like usual. Coach D needs to get his head out of his ass and play his rookies. JESUS H CHRIST. I agree with Charles for once. We have a good bench. Use it.

Big WORD!!.....Things dont seem to change with our coach....we may need some changes, this softness, rebounding, and lack of using other players and developing young players is regoddamneddiculous..Bring in the Bald midget, he will get some blood from the Suns defense turnip

[sunsdotcom]

if the want to keep amare out of foul trouble, the need to stay in a zone defense. and all guys should go to the boards.

[Coop]

3rd quarter starting....

I really do not like the lineup of Amare, Diaw, Banks, Raja, and barbosa

[gladiator]

Boris has been the big disappointment so far. I really expected him to step up a bit (with hardly anyone left to defer to) but he really hasn't. With Amare, he's one of two front court players in the starting line-up but managed just one rebound in the 1st half. That's not going to get it done.

edit: shabazz I didn't see your post but obviously we're thinking the same on Diaw

[sunsdotcom]

nice behind the back, magic.

[sunsdotcom]

maybe the key to playoff success and keeping amare out of foul trouble is... the ZONE.

[Coop]

My argument with our rookies is how can you send them to the D-League and see them just tearing it up out there and they come back and you give them absolutely no shot. I think Strawberry could us alot more then Banks can at this point. (Do I have proof: no because he doesnt play)

[AZSportsFan]

For the next 5 minutes, it should be Amare and only Amare on offense. Just see where it goes.

[Coop]

And the time Boris gets has to be just for the fact they can see sitting a guy they are paying that much money too, because honestly he has not earned his playing time what so ever

[sunsdotcom]

the problem with amare is that he doesn't fight for good position in the post/inside so that it'd be easy to dump the ball to him.

[Coop]

Theres fucking pike again

[Coop]

nice bank shot pike

[AZSportsFan]

Pike! Sucks!

[Coop]

im about to jump on the band wagon that coach sucks.....

Im not mad we are losing i expected that... but I also expected with 3 starters out we would get to see some guys.

[AZSportsFan]

If I were Amare, I wouldn't even want to be out there right now.....

[Coop]

Hre comes Marks... I guess I would rather see him over Pike

[AZSportsFan]

Love it. Always offense for defense with this team. Marks in for Skinner. Should NEVER happen.

[AZSportsFan]

23 points down. Where is DJ?

[EDC]

It is like Danny Ainge is out there coaching again. Play the rookies some at least.

[AZSportsFan]

No Amare OR Skinner in? Wow, nice job, team. About to go to 40 points.

[Coop]

offense... what offense??

[AZSportsFan]

12 points in the quarter! It is time for Coach to go. Again, as another said. it is not the loss. it is the effort and the plan. None on both counts. That is the staff. No excuses.

[AZSportsFan]

I really hope that the home sellouts stop. That is the only factor which will bring a change, because apparently Kerr doesn't have the guts at this point. The tail is wagging this dog.

[AlanS]

Amare has 21 pts and 14 rebs after 3 qtrs, but he's basically been a one man show. Might as well rest him for the next game.

I am beyond disgusted and disappointed by Diaw. But having said that, I can't understand why they didn't have him set-up on the low post, at least to give the Suns a diferent look, at least to get him closer to the basket.

[Coop]

Theres Strawberry

[darrkin]

Yeah, this is not gonna make Kerr very happy, rumor is hes not happy with Coach D now anyway. Obviously we are undermanned, but this is what happens to teams that dont play a bench or develop players. If we played hard and lost by 10 so be it, but this is purely laughable. Its goona be bad next week when Lakers beat us by thirty, that may be Coach D's walking papers. Offense is great, but we have gotten so poor defensively and our rotation is so short that we just cant compete anymore unless starters are really on fire.

[Coop]

Strawberry for 3!!!!

[AZSportsFan]

Some DJ at least. Now, yank Barbs.

[EDC]

Nice to see DJ in there.

[AZSportsFan]

The 4-guard lineup. So when DJ plays, he already pulled the plug anyways. An embarassment.

[EDC]

When in doubt go smaller and smaller and smaller...

The numbers that "da_suns_fan" posted about our rebounding is so telling. It is so hard to win with such horrible rebounding.

[Coop]

69-95 with 8:55 to go... I would pull the plug now too

[AZSportsFan]

Embarassing

[Coop]

Embarassing


Slightly

[AZSportsFan]

Pike should have never sniffed the floor, just based on the 4 minutes we've seen of DJ.

[AZSportsFan]

Airball FT from DJ. Bench him.

[BobbyDogg]

The rebounding and defense is what's going to kill the Phx Suns, folks.

They simply cannot give up that many rebounds to ANY team, let alone a good one.

This is something that has not improved over the last three years and, in fact, has seemingly gotten worse.

I expected more, even from a shorthanded staff.

[sunsdotcom]

i didn't bother to finish the game but banks and diaw played awful.

[SunsFan4Life]

Nothing to see here...moving ahead to Saturday

[AZSportsFan]

DJ outplayed Banks, IMO. Sure, DJ has a lot to learn, but he tried, and succeeded. He should DEFINITELY play in front of Pike.

[darrkin]

I've got the solution, we simply bench Diaw-get rid of him take him outta the mix completely. In his place we play DJ! I love this kid, hes gonna be good, may as well get him goin now, Diaw will be death of us if we continue down this road

[darrkin]

BTW, why is Pike on the team?? I may be better than Pike, seriously

[Coop]

BTW, why is Pike on the team?? I may be better than Pike, seriously


I have wondered the same thing

[SunsFan4Life]

We lost..without 3 starters ur expected to lose but Utah crushed us on the glass(yea we miss Shawn but everytime we lose we're crushed on the glass) and I'm miffed DJ didnt get minutes wanted to see what he could do with Bell and Amare and players who acually play.

Whatever move along here its not this will be any kind of semblence of the suns team that will be playing in april.

[y2jjedipimp]

"Sean Marks will suprise alot fo people this year" is the quote that keeps playign in my head.
yeah im suprised. SUPRISED HE'S STILL IN THE LEAGUE!!!! WHY DO WE HAVE THE WORST 2 GOD DAMNPLAYERS STILL IN THE LEAGUE? PIKE AND MARKS ARE THE 2 WORST PLAYERS!!


DJ what can I say about DJ? HE came in and nailed a 3. what more can you ask. yeah he shot an airball. so the fuck what?

I could care less abotu we lost...I was hoping for a blowout so we could see guys like DJ and Tucker more. NOPE Tucker's in Idaho. After tonight I think that's where our coach should be.

[cap]

I've got the solution, we simply bench Diaw-get rid of him take him outta the mix completely. In his place we play DJ!

Yeah, get even smaller. Just what we need.

[Shabazz]

BTW, why is Pike on the team?? I may be better than Pike, seriously

Don't sell yourself short, Darrkin. You're much better than Pike.

[darrkin]

I've got the solution, we simply bench Diaw-get rid of him take him outta the mix completely. In his place we play DJ!

Yeah, get even smaller. Just what we need.


Tucker and DJ were great college players and can play the game at least better than Pike or Marks. As a fan I would love to see these guys get some meaningful minutes. Diaw is on thin ice I think, and if this keeps up I bet he is gone soon

[Spanky]

Turd in a punch bowl.... NEXT. :)

[Spanky]

I've got the solution, we simply bench Diaw-get rid of him take him outta the mix completely. In his place we play DJ!

Yeah, get even smaller. Just what we need.


Tucker and DJ were great college players and can play the game at least better than Pike or Marks. As a fan I would love to see these guys get some meaningful minutes. Diaw is on thin ice I think, and if this keeps up I bet he is gone soon


Where would that be? Diaw is untradable.

[JediSkywalker]

Even without 3 starters the Suns could have put out a much better performance. In the second half it seemed like they were not even trying. With better coaching they could have even won this game. Utah was not playing that great.

Why did coach wait till garbage time to bring in DJ? I had no problem with him bringing Pike in the first Q; we were short handed, but I expected him to make at least a few shots. Agreed he sits on the bench forever and is not used to playing in a real game, but still.....when the team needs a player, that player needs to make some plays. Diaw started off well by scoring but then he reverted to his usual form. The game was boring, period. I did not even watch parts of it.

[INFORMER]

It's never fun to get blown out like this, but you can't be too upset with the loss. I thought the Suns could have been coached better for this game, but the end result may have still been the same.

One thing to rant and rave about is just how bad Boris Diaw is. Seriously, it is freaking heartbreaking.

[Shabazz]

Recipe for a miserable night:

Take away 3 of Phoenix's 4 best players
Add extensive minutes for Pike
Sprinkle in Diaw's "Back spasms" (read: menstrual cramps)
Throw in a large dose of vintage 2006 Marcus Banks
Toss in 75 commercials for "House of Payne" ("We givin' to the needy, not the greedy!" - that always makes me laugh) and stir


*For extra misery top with some (rare) salient points from Kenny and Charles about D'Antoni's tiny rotation.

[INFORMER]

Throw in a large dose of vintage 2006 Marcus Banks

I still want to see Banks get more time, but he did have a bad night, and I'm pretty sure D'Antoni won't let him see the light of day again.

[jkalldaway]

I like DJ ALOT. He sees the court well. I think he would have some pretty passes to Amare if they played together. The shot that I liked the best from him was the 15' pull up. Very nice. All in all I look at this game like a preseason game. I just wish we could bring in one more big and play DJ then I think we would go on a tear.

[Velo]

Its a good thing its Piatkowski and now Cowpieski



Cowpieski for 3...plop

[YU]

I just hope that this is not how Suns will be post Nash era. We lack set plays in offense, and rebounding on defense.

It's pretty much like what Kenny and Chuck said. We always say how good Nash is, but do not learn how to play without him. Coach D says to play/develop the bench, but never does and never will.

Like everyone else, I have given up on Diaw. It's rediculous that he only grabbed 2 rebounds in 35 mins. Also he does almost nothing on offense now.

As for Banks, I thought he did Ok when the game was close in the first half. He didn't shoot the ball well, but didn't really make any stupid mistakes.

It's really encouraging to see the way DJ shot the ball, except the airball. He needs to work on his ball handling and passing tho. But he should get some real playing time.

[Superbone]

Like everyone else, I have given up on Diaw. It's rediculous that he only grabbed 2 rebounds in 35 mins. Also he does almost nothing on offense now.

How many times did he just stand there after a Jazz shot as a Utah player flew past him for the offensive rebound? Sickening.

[jed]

Can't say I'm surprised by this outcome, but I won't say I'm content with it either. Sure, we take a huge step back without Nash -- but we're kinda' designed that way, unfortunately.

Plus -- and I hate to say it -- but Barbosa's numbers almost don't matter, simply becuse he plays like he's in a vacuum. Seldom does his contribution get anyone else involved.

[Mori_Chu]

I think we just have to pretend that this game never happened. I was glad that they kept it pretty close in the first half. But we couldn't be expected to keep pace with a good team like Utah under these circumstances. Yes, there are things here and there that should have been better. But when you basically know you're going to lose before you ever hit the floor, everything is out the window. Nobody is 100% any more at that point.

Nash will be back soon, Hill is getting lots of rest, and guys like Banks and DJ are getting a little bit of an opportunity to play. Let's just move on.

[Shabazz]

Coro's postgame blog:

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/14430


Fish out of water
When it comes to fish out of water, the Suns’ survival in Utah on Thursday was more like a goldfish that a mudfish.

Between the zone defense and Leandro Barbosa running the offense (hey, he was much better than the guy lobbing that post entry pass to Amare Stoudemire on Wednesday), Phoenix was fighting for air under unfamiliar circumstances as much as missing parts, a very good home team and the vaunted back-to-back.

“We battled,” Stoudemire said. “We just ran out of steam in the second half.

“We knew it wasn’t going to be easy. We gave it all we got. It’s crazy how all three went down at once.”

So this was predictable. Worst scoring night of the season (86 points). Worst shooting night of the season (36.1 percent). Worst margin of defeat of the season (22 points). Worst quarter of the season (12 points in the third). Worst sight of the season (Mehmet Okur dunking on Stoudemire).

Worse yet, Phoenix had itself in the game. The quirky zone defense thing messed with Utah. The Jazz went long spells without scoring much at the start of the second and third quarters but the Suns didn’t have anyone step up. It was still 63-54 with seven minutes to go in the third before a 23-6 Jazz run ended the quarter and the game.

Over eight minutes of the third, nobody besides Amare Stoudemire scored and he only had seven in that stretch.

“I don’t think we were very cohesive offensively and that’s going to happen when the guy who runs your offense isn’t out there,” Bell said.

Bell was 2 for 9. Banks was 3 for 11. Skinner and Piatkowski each went 1 for 5.

“We’ll come back and be soldiered up and ready to go,” Banks said.

Diaw was unimpressive again. In 35 minutes, he had five points, two rebounds and two assists and made 2 of 6 shots. Mike D’Antoni said Diaw’s back was tight but Diaw said it really wasn’t a problem.

“It was different because we do different things with different guys,” Diaw said.

Don’t expect to see too much of the zone again. D’Antoni is not a fan, although there have been times that the Suns have sprung it on teams out of a time out in the past. At least they now have messed with it a bit if they did want to use it.

As for the loss, the Suns took it fine. They were disappointed but not devastated. They played hard. They competed for a while. They know they were missing 49.0 points, 18.5 rebounds and 17.6 assists.

“I’d like to see somebody else play without their engine, brakes and tires,” Suns assistant Alvin Gentry said.

You can’t even push a vehicle like that.

Diaw's apathy is just plain sickening at this point, yet D'Antoni still covers for him.

[SpecialSauce]

Can't say I'm surprised by this outcome, but I won't say I'm content with it either. Sure, we take a huge step back without Nash -- but we're kinda' designed that way, unfortunately.

Plus -- and I hate to say it -- but Barbosa's numbers almost don't matter, simply becuse he plays like he's in a vacuum. Seldom does his contribution get anyone else involved.

THANK YOU JED. Damn. It's about time people start understanding Barbosa's antics this year are HURTING this team, even when he puts up big stats.

[FurlanFufi]

Well, he's hurting us?
Wthat he's supposed to do for the team? Score, handle the ball when nash sits (and share this responsability with Diaw).
He's doing exactly what he's told!
It's like some of you still expects that he does a Nash imersonation out there, when EVERYBODY knows that he can't for almost 3 years now. He's good at scoring, doing what he's told to do!

It's not like someone posted up good numbers last night...Only Amare did better offensively , and Amare SHOULd do that by default!

Barbs got 5 rebounds, 3 more than Diaw, who are complletely MIA and making a lot more money than Barbs!

[SpecialSauce]

Well, he's hurting us?
Wthat he's supposed to do for the team? Score, handle the ball when nash sits (and share this responsability with Diaw).
He's doing exactly what he's told!
It's like some of you still expects that he does a Nash imersonation out there, when EVERYBODY knows that he can't for almost 3 years now. He's good at scoring, doing what he's told to do!

It's not like someone posted up good numbers last night...Only Amare did better offensively , and Amare SHOULd do that by default!

Barbs got 5 rebounds, 3 more than Diaw, who are complletely MIA and making a lot more money than Barbs!

When you are trying to back LB up by comparing him to Diaw, that's when you know you're in trouble. LB is a miniature AI, the only problem is....he's not as good as AI and he's on the WRONG team to be doing that. This is NOT LB's team, and he should NOT be controlling the ball. He simply does not have the brains to do it. He holds the ball for FAR too long, and often forces a shot up. He's the only one on the team that doesn't buy into the idea of moving the ball around. I find that even Amare passes it better and more than LB.

[Ring_Wanted]

Barbosa's game is scoring and providing a spark off the bench. When he's under control, he is unvaluable to this team. You can criticize him when he forgets there are 4 more guys on his team, but being the primary ballhandler is not his strenght, and we shouldn't be asking him to do it. The bad thing is that when Nash and Hill are out, he's all we have, given Banks incompetence and Diaw's season long no show.

The game plan with Nash and Hill out should be as simple as feeding Amare inside and passing the ball to whoever is hot that night, if someone can hit a shot, unlike last game.

If we can't play our game when Nash is not there, as we all know, I think Mike D should try to involve Tucker and DJ in the rotation, cutting Bell minutes and giving the rookies actual playing time, not just garbage minutes. Also, Pike shouldn't see 18min unless he hits his 2 first 3pts attempts.

One can't be mad at a loss without Nash, Marion and Hill, but I think we could have done more. Certainly, we could have tried different things rather than playing Bell 36min at SF.

[SwingMan]

Alright, I've spared myself all the angst that I'm positive is within the whole damn thread, so I'm not even going to try and comment on the game itself any further.

BUT -

35 minutes, 5 points, 2 boards, 2 assists on 2-6 shooting with 3 starters out. Be warned right here and now: Anyone comes around trying to defend or justify Diaw from this moment on will get a shitload of blasting from me - I'll lay a mushroom cloud on your ass(es), whoever you may be. That sonofabitch, JUST like JR, had the perfect chance to step up and he didn't/wouldn't.

Skullfuck that fat & happy trippy dippy French fuck with a jackhammer - I've had enough.....

[Ring_Wanted]

Talking about JJones, are you seeing how he's playing with the Blazers?

[SwingMan]

Give him until the end of the month before heaping praise on The Shooter Who Couldn't Shoot, RW.

Remember: He played lights out for 1 solid month in each of his 2 years here - If JR's still playing like he is now come Jan. 31st, I'll change my tune, but not until then.....

[SwingMan]

Oh yeah - fuck the news thread as well.

If I want a detailed rundown of how the Suns sucked tonight, I'll go over to homer central, aka SpursTalk.....

[LazarusLong]

Wasn't expecting a win, but was expecting to see what the bench could do.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

DJ looked good, although it was garbage time when he came in.

I really don't understand the whole Diaw thing. He actually played well in the first minutes, hitting a three. Then D'Antoni pulls him for awhile. Boris comes back at half power and walks through his paces, sorta like Britney at that awards show.

The Okur dunk was shameful. C'mon, STAT, at least slap him on the back of the head or something. Shit.

Remind me ... Why did the Suns get Piatkowski?

[SwingMan]

Remind me ... Why did the Suns get Piatkowski?

Proof that Alvin Gentry has serious man love going on - with lethal revisionism and a shitbucket of melancholy.

Hey, that's the only way I can explain it - along with the fact that Tucker's inactive with 10 players and 3 starters out..... :roll:

[LazarusLong]

Yet Piatkowski comes off the bench before DJ.
Amazing.

[SwingMan]

Pike is a good ol' boy, Laz. Gentry coached him with the Clips, so he's got a natural 'in'.

Politics suck.....

[ShelC]

If we see Pike in a suit next hear holding a clipboard, we'll know that 2yr deal was money well spent.

Pike is a good ol' boy, Laz. Gentry coached him with the Clips, so he's got a natural 'in'.

Politics suck.....

Beautifully f**kin illustrated.

[sunsdotcom]

diaw - nothing wrong with his aggressiveness, but missed some shots.

banks - totally clueless. this game reminded me of why i hated him in the first place. my advice to dantoni is to only play banks as a desperation move to shake things up e.g. if we end up trailing by 20 pts. in the first quarter to a team like seattle or miami, or if we raise the white flag in the 4th.

[SwingMan]

Yeah Shel, I fear if there's any chemistry problems, they definitely start with the staff's designation of 'pals' and 'shit listers'.

Hear tell that Doris is a hell of a shutterbug when it comes to sheep - again, the only way I can think to explain his leverage.....

[sunsdotcom]

no way do i want to see banks with barbosa together.

[ShelC]

Yeah Shel, I fear if there's any chemistry problems, they definitely start with the staff's designation of 'pals' and 'shit listers'.

Hear tell that Doris is a hell of a shutterbug when it comes to sheep - again, the only way I can think to explain his leverage.....

MikeDs biggest fear is losing Boris. Hes expected to be a rotational player, a part of the core and a weapon. Plus hes making 9mil. That always accounts for something. If you lose him, it really doesnt look good on any front.

banks - totally clueless. this game reminded me of why i hated him in the first place. my advice to dantoni is to only play banks as a desperation move to shake things up e.g. if we end up trailing by 20 pts. in the first quarter to a team like seattle or miami, or if we raise the white flag in the 4th.

I think this game came at a real bad time. We needed baby steps with Banks, playing everygame for about 12-14minutes, really working him into the rotation and keeping things simplified. Last night he was expected to run the show for the most part and reverted back. Not having at least 2 other starters didnt help, especially a ball handler like Hill, who wouldve allowed Banks to play a bit more off the bal, or at least stand and wait for his shot instead of trying to create/initiate offense.

[Wormwood]

My Thoughts:

* Don't hate on Barbs too much for this one. He still had 5 assists, more than anyone else out there. He's also the only guy who EVER looked for Amare last night. Barbs had 2 assists to Amare off the pick and roll. Not much, but it's any positive number over 0 is still infinity. Also, Barbs and Stoudemire were to only two guys hitting anything, and Barbs was doing a nice job of drawing fouls. Not a great game from him, he's not a true PG, but still, he was better than anyone out there not named Amare.

* Banks. What can I say? He learned how to play basketball from Ray Charles, because it's obvious neither of them ever saw their teammates on the court. Banks is like Eddie House, if his shot isn't going down, he'd worthless. He still has no clue how to run the point, the pick and roll, or guard it for that matter. He had his chance, his moment in the sun, and he used it to take a sh**.

* D'Antoni. He bitches all the time that this team needs more energy, hustle, desire and drive if it wants to win. Then he proceeds to give minutes to a guy who makes the average age in a room "dead" when he walks in. WTF? This is a game where Tucker and DJ should have been able to make a difference. , or at least get some experience in minutes that count.

* DJ. He did OK, his passing is at least on a par with Barbosa's, and light years ahead of Banks. He had a pair of passes bounce off the hands of his teammates last night. He really zings them in there, even the bounce passes. Deron Williams blew by him once, but crap, that happens to lots of players. His 3 point shoting is still a work in progress. DIsplays real court awareness and B-ball IQ though. AT this stage, there is no reason why Banks or Piatkowski should get minutes over DJ.

* Marks. The guy couldn't guard a stool with 2 broken legs. Why he and Pike are still drawing NBA paychecks is beyond me. Their main skill seems to be their ability to sit on the bench and not cause trouble in the lockerroom. Pay me a million dollars a year and give me courtside seats to 82 NBA games a year, and I'd be pretty freakin' happy about life too.

* Diaw. Done. No other word for it. I know the trade scenario thread is elsewhere, but Milwaukee's looking to deal, and gosh would I like to somehow bring in Gadzuric (athletic, high energy, defensive mided, rebounding shot blocking sub) and Villanueava. Diaw and a pick for those two would be a smoking deal. Diaw is utterly useless, he's not even passing well. Replacing him with one guy who at least rebounds and blocks shots would be immeasurably usefull. Or a guy who can score. Either one would be fine. AT the moment he gives nothing. Not defense, not rebounding, not shot blocking, not scoring, not shooting, not even ball movement. Nothing.

* Nash. Yeah, I know he didn't play, but the craptacular nature of last night's game should illustrate who the real force behind the team is once again. We're 4-13 without him. It also should give the front office a nudge to go after Mighty Mouse if he gets bought out. Having a back up PG who can actually pass and run an offense has been something we've missed. For some reason beyond me, we always end up with clueless chuckers behind Nash, and don't even bother with pass first guys (Rodriguez, Kopponen, Jordan, Brevin Knight) who might become usefull down the line, or already know how to keep the ball moving.

[v9]

Diaw. Done. No other word for it. I know the trade scenario thread is elsewhere, but Milwaukee's looking to deal, and gosh would I like to somehow bring in Gadzuric (athletic, high energy, defensive mided, rebounding shot blocking sub) and Villanueava. Diaw and a pick for those two would be a smoking deal.

Getting Gadzuric AND Villanueva for Diaw and the ATL pick would be highway robbery...I don't know why Milwaukee would do it.

[Mori_Chu]

I think this game came at a real bad time. We needed baby steps with Banks, playing everygame for about 12-14minutes, really working him into the rotation and keeping things simplified. Last night he was expected to run the show for the most part and reverted back. Not having at least 2 other starters didnt help, especially a ball handler like Hill, who wouldve allowed Banks to play a bit more off the bal, or at least stand and wait for his shot instead of trying to create/initiate offense.

Word. I feel bad for Banks. He isn't ready to carry this team for 38 minutes as our starting PG, especially with the other guys out.

We should not give up on Banks just because of this one game. IMO Diaw's weak performance (worse than Banks') is much more disheartening. I want to believe that Diaw still has that player from 05-06 inside him, that he could get back to being 75% as good as that if we used him the right way. But the performance the other night doesn't leave much hope of that.

[Coop]

I think this game came at a real bad time. We needed baby steps with Banks, playing everygame for about 12-14minutes, really working him into the rotation and keeping things simplified. Last night he was expected to run the show for the most part and reverted back. Not having at least 2 other starters didnt help, especially a ball handler like Hill, who wouldve allowed Banks to play a bit more off the bal, or at least stand and wait for his shot instead of trying to create/initiate offense.

Word. I feel bad for Banks. He isn't ready to carry this team for 38 minutes as our starting PG, especially with the other guys out.

We should not give up on Banks just because of this one game. IMO Diaw's weak performance (worse than Banks') is much more disheartening. I want to believe that Diaw still has that player from 05-06 inside him, that he could get back to being 75% as good as that if we used him the right way. But the performance the other night doesn't leave much hope of that.


I gave up hope on Diaw a long time ago. We are hoping he returns to form from 05-06? We are now in the 07-08 season. Its not going to happen.

[Wormwood]

We should not give up on Banks just because of this one game.

It's not just one bad game. He's played in about 65 games for the Suns, and perhaps only 10 of them weren't stinkers. He had one good game this year. Woo-hoo.

Diaw has gotten this much burn because he's had 70 or so really good games in a SUns uni. Too bad none of them have been this year.

[Shabazz]

Not to beat a dead horse, but the Pike-DJ thing really pisses me off.

The way I see it a coach's responsibilities to his team are to put them in a position to win every game and to develop his players going forward. Playing DJ over Pike would have accomplished both of those things. I really think we had a chance last night if DJ would have gotten all of Pike's minutes, he's that much better.

This whole Pike thing really blows my mind. The guy was about to retire knowing he pretty much had nothing left. He gets a call from D'Antoni who offers him not one, but TWO YEARS guaranteed, and in 2 years the only thing he's contributed has been stunting the development of our young players. He's slow. He can't defend. He can barely shoot. He can't jump over a piece of paper. He's basically useless. And we're still playing this guy over to eager, athletic, energetic rookies.

Oh, wait. He doesn't complain. That makes it all better.

As an aside, the D'Antoni-the-GM era might have been the most damaging 13 months in this franchises history. Right up there with the drug scandals. Some highlights:

-June 29, 2006 Traded the rights to guard Sergio Rodriguez to the Portland Trail Blazers for cash considerations.
-July 13, 2006 Signed guard-forward Eric Piatkowski, who had been with the Chicago Bulls, to a two-year contract.
-July 21, 2006 Signed guard Marcus Banks to a multi-year contract.
-October 21, 2006 Signed forward-center Boris Diaw to a five-year contract extension. (Can't blame him for this one, we were all pushing for it)
-November 7, 2006 Signed guard-forward Jalen Rose.

Did a single one of those moves work for us for either the present or the future? The big contracts to Banks and Diaw crippled our flexibility to make trades. The small contracts to useless players made it hard for us to add any young players and harder to develop them when we did manage to draft them. To top it all off, we sold a draft pick that could have yielded us a major upgrade at backup point.

Whatever Kerr does has to be better than that disaster.

</rant>

[Phoenix219]

I think this game came at a real bad time. We needed baby steps with Banks, playing everygame for about 12-14minutes, really working him into the rotation and keeping things simplified. Last night he was expected to run the show for the most part and reverted back. Not having at least 2 other starters didnt help, especially a ball handler like Hill, who wouldve allowed Banks to play a bit more off the bal, or at least stand and wait for his shot instead of trying to create/initiate offense.

Word. I feel bad for Banks. He isn't ready to carry this team for 38 minutes as our starting PG, especially with the other guys out.

We should not give up on Banks just because of this one game. IMO Diaw's weak performance (worse than Banks') is much more disheartening. I want to believe that Diaw still has that player from 05-06 inside him, that he could get back to being 75% as good as that if we used him the right way. But the performance the other night doesn't leave much hope of that.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like thats going to happen. I miss those pretty post moves, spins, all that beautiful center-style footwork...

Doesn't that mid level amount Tim Thomas wanted look cheap compared to the 9.5 we're giving Boris? I think we signed the wrong "bigman" there...

[INFORMER]

“I’d like to see somebody else play without their engine, brakes and tires,” Suns assistant Alvin Gentry said.

Still, we should not have looked like the worst team in basketball.

[INFORMER]

Doesn't that mid level amount Tim Thomas wanted look cheap compared to the 9.5 we're giving Boris?

YES.

[JediSkywalker]

I was disappointed that Banks could not take advantage of the golden opportunity that was presented to him. After the Denver game, all he had to do was score some points against UT, play strong defense, and the lack of assists would have been forgiven.

I have not learned my lesson it seems. I was optimisitc about Diaw last night- like he is really going to step up. It's time to give up. Unfortunately he is untradeable, and I don't want the Suns to throw away any more draft picks for the next 10 years.

Dantoni could have used DJ earlier when the team on the floor could not make any baskets. What took him so long?

I have often wondered if the Suns signed Marks and Pike solely because they were CHEAP? Heck, I would have played for less than that. Not that I can put the ball in the basket, but neither can they.

The good thing was, I started watching the game with zero expectations, so it did not matter a whole lot that the Suns lost. Still, I would have liked to see more fight from this team.

The scary thing is- the Fakers are playing Milwaukee tonight- that's a guaranteed win for them. If the Suns are short handed again (Nash may not play, or he may not be in game shape even if he does play), they could be beaten by the Bucks. The Suns Pacific division title is in jeopardy at this point.

[Mori_Chu]

It's not just one bad game. He's played in about 65 games for the Suns, and perhaps only 10 of them weren't stinkers. He had one good game this year. Woo-hoo.

His 22-point game was not his only good game this year. Banks has had at least 3 or 4 games where I was very happy with his contribution. I don't know what you expect from him, but in limited minutes, if he puts in a few shots and plays good D, I am happy. He's done that on a few occasions.

Plus, how can you even say that? Has he really had the chance to do more? How many games has he even gotten to play more than 3-4 minutes?

Marcus Banks has played well enough to be in our rotation this year. It isn't his fault that our coach has not given him the chance until this week. I'm happy with what he's giving us right now and hope he keeps it up.

[sunsdotcom]

banks is clueless when he has the ball in his hands. he's not a true basketball player. he's an athlete. but at least he can shoot some and defend some.

[JediSkywalker]

banks is clueless when he has the ball in his hands. he's not a true basketball player. he's an athlete. but at least he can shoot some and defend some.


I will take that over Pike and Marks who cannot even do that.

[Ring_Wanted]

But not at 5 years and 21M.

[Phoenix219]

How much more than that did TT end up getting?

[Ring_Wanted]

TT: 4 years, 24M with the Clippers --- We offered 3/12

Salmons: 5 years, 25.5M with the Kings after screwing us and the Raptors.

We can debate if giving TT the money he wanted was a good idea or if he even deserved it after his 'I've made a lot of money, so I just want to win' line.

But what is clear is that when you target a player (Salmons), and he bails on you, the worst you can do is panic and give the money you were willing to spend on the supposedly right guy to the 'best' remaining player. It doesn't work that way, and it's the best recipe for disaster..

[Phoenix219]

so the 2 mill a year extra TT wanted coulda been... one of the bench warmers, and a mill offa diaws contract... and diaws contract shoulda been JJ's contract... god, the pain...

[Ring_Wanted]

Yeah, one of the bench warmers, Pike or Marks, but you still need to sign the min roster.

And 1 less million per year could make Diaw to turn down the offer, something that would have put Sarver under hell fire after the JJ fiasco. At the time, Diaw's contract was well deserved, if one season can ever be an indicator to make multi year offers.

It didn't take TT a lot of time to sign with the Clippers. Sure, his contract compared to Banks or Diaw's is heaven, but he was highly under suspect as a contract year type of performer. Also, there was all his talk about loving PHX and having made money. 3/12 after resurrecting his carrer wasn't a bad offer. Of course, teh Clipps pay him twice as much..

The JJ fiasco has been talked to death, but I'll say that in my opinion, with 1/2 season of good bball after Marbury was traded, 5/40 was a fair offer. He wanted 5/45. Sarver (after spending all the money we know), didn't pony up. He took a gamble. He lost. The team paid it. Life goes on. If Diaw wasn't such a pussy, the deal we got from the Hawks would still be a good move. Not every time you can turn a horrible situation (a player wanting to leave no matter what) into a palatable one.

[Phoenix219]

Oh, I understand the "why's" of how it all happened - it just sucks, hindsite being perfect and all.... JJ at 5/45 was actually half a mil a year cheaper than Diaw... No Banks is an extra 4.2 a year, and one less role player would be 5.7 we could have thrown at TT. 4/22 is close enough to 4/24. SO... JJ signed to a slight bit under Diaw's contract, TT for Banks and Marks, Eddie House reisgned in place of Pike, would leave us with: nash/barbs/house/JJ/bell/dj/hill/tucker/marion/TT/amare/skinner, thats 12 players. if we could have thrown a 2nd round pick to Atl for Diaw anyways, that would have been 13, and with Diaw not getting his big contract, the extra tax would have been minimal. He woudln't have taken much to get, as he would have been out of the league soon if it wasn't for us. with these "retrospective" signings, theres actually almost a mill free from me rounding banks 4.2 a year down to 4 to throw at the cheap bench diaw. (i don't actually expect anyone to follow this) but for the same money give or take 2 mill... we could have been: PG: Nash/House/DJ SG: JJ/Bell/Barbs SF: Hill/Diaw/Tucker PF: Marion/TT C: Amare/Skinner

[Phoenix219]

(this is with all the draft pick and KT dumping. figuring out where they would have fit is an even bigger headache. i'm just going based on what we've actually had slip through our hands, that fit our run an gun, slash and burn style. JJ and TT were perfect Suns system players.)

Wow, with that lineup, we would have had to go 9 deep in our bench daily, and the 4 bench warmers would have been Diaw, House, Tucker and DJ. That is suuuuch a siiiick team.

[Ring_Wanted]

You say we could have thrown TT 4/24. Of course, but was he worth it? We accept he has a good deal, but always compared to Banks. Take Banks off the picture. He's giving the Clipps (without Brand and Cassel to take shots from him) 12ppg, but look at his %s. FG .390 and 3pt .331

We'd be mad here if the Suns were paying that money to TT. You couldn't count how many times 'contract year' would have been typed.

Would I pay Banks or TT? TT no doubt. Still, the smart thing to do, one we decided TT was not worth more than those 3/12, was saving the 21M spent in Banks, given Salmons stab.

[ShelC]

Yea its lovers remorse with TT. He'd be catchin as much heat as Boris right now if we signed him for 6 a year. People think the grass is always greener.

[Ring_Wanted]

Go figure. JJones catched it while only 'earning' 2.5M. TT at 6M would drive people crazy.

[Mori_Chu]

I don't see the point of these what-if conversations. Yes, you are right, we would be an amazing team if you reversed EVERY misstep the front office has made in the past 5 years and replace them with a completely flawless series of moves that probably no one would have made without knowledge of the future.

So what? Every team makes some bad transactions. Do you think the Bobcats are happy they splurged on Jason Richardson? The Hornets, on Peja? The Magic, on Rashard Lewis? The Heat, on Shaq's extension? The Knicks, on their entire roster? Even the mighty Spurs have screwed up a few times, such as trading a late first-rounder named Barbosa to the Phoenix Suns on draft day.

[ShelC]

Even the mighty Spurs have screwed up a few times, such as trading a late first-rounder named Barbosa to the Phoenix Suns on draft day.

Or did they?

[JediSkywalker]

Even the mighty Spurs have screwed up a few times, such as trading a late first-rounder named Barbosa to the Phoenix Suns on draft day.

Or did they?


They may have had some regrets about sending LB to the Suns, but the Spurs are so loaded with talent (and their coach even uses the players!) that they know they still have a better chance of winning.