Rumor: Kerr and D'Antoni Go at It

[v9]

Before anyone gets excited, this is a rumor from a sports talk show, filtered through another message board. That being said, this "news" would explain why D'Antoni is so defensive nowadays...

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105146


They reported on (what used to be cold pizza) First Take (espn), that Steve Kerr and Dantoni arent seeing eye to eye. Apparently Kerr wants us to slow it down a bit and get amare some more touches (which i think was already talked about in another thread) but Dantoni wants to keep the uptempo game going with equal touches to all.

Get im Kerr.

Hmmmm...

[SwingMan]

4th hand reports from 3,000 miles east - nothin' like 'em. :lol:

Let's hear something a little closer.....

[sunsdotcom]

Why the Suns' way inspires more concern than confidence
Adande

By J.A. Adande
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: January 10, 2008

* Comment
* Email
* Print

PHOENIX -- The Phoenix Suns are whatever you want them to be, depending on your predisposed notions, perhaps even the tint of your glasses.

I came over to Phoenix because I'm curious about the Suns. Concerned might be a better word. I'd like to see this way work, to think that sharing the ball, running teams into submission, shooting at will can work in this league. That we'll be liberated from what feels like a decade of defense and discipline serving as the only formula for winning a championship. After everything basketball fans have been subjected to during the last year, the least we should get back in return is a Suns-Warriors conference finals.

[+] Enlarge
Amare Stoudemire

Barry Gossage/NBAE via Getty Images

Amare Stoudemire can point to a magic number -- the Suns usually win when he scores at least 20 points.

No Western Conference team has more victories, yet no division leader has as many nagging questions as the Suns, the team that can't seem to satisfy anyone.

"What's wrong with the Phoenix Suns?" I asked Raja Bell.

"I would put the question to someone: 'What's wrong with the Phoenix Suns?'" he responded.

It's all in the inflection. Say it the way Bell says it and it becomes rhetorical. It implies, what's wrong with a 25-10 record? What's wrong with having the highest-scoring, best-shooting offense in the league, along with a defense that quietly has gone from the bottom of the league to the middle of the pack?

The Suns are as much a matter of voice tone as visual perception. Sometimes there's a disconnect between the results you see and the means by which they arrive.

A team with such a prolific offense should produce more blowouts. But the Pistons, Celtics, and Lakers all have more double-digit victories.

Should the Suns be pleased with their comeback from a 16-point deficit to beat Indiana, 129-122, in overtime Wednesday night? Or should they be upset that they were down 16 at home in the first place to a 16-20 team playing the second half of a back-to-back set without injured center Jermaine O'Neal?

Should the Suns be encouraged because they rallied after Steve Nash left the game with the stomach flu? Or should they be worried because the last Sun who felt flu-like symptoms, Grant Hill, wound up getting his appendix removed?

Hill's appendectomy Wednesday evening is the latest little setback to a team that has yet to get an extended run with its full lineup (Bell's back and ankle problems being the most notable). Hill will miss two to three weeks, right after he had adjusted to his new team and found his groove. He had not missed a game before Wednesday, and his 34 starts already represent a higher total than four of his previous six injury-plagued seasons.

With Hill, coach Mike D'Antoni thinks the Suns have a better roster than they did last season. He also concedes, "We're not as sharp."

"It's not a cancer," D'Antoni said. "It's not something that looms. But when you lose, it puts it back out there."

He admits that the players feel the pressure from a fan base that feels they should win every game, that craves substance delivered with style. The Suns won an average of 59 games the first three seasons after Nash arrived.

Those seasons, "looked fantastic, they were shiny and new," Bell said. "And we didn't win [in the playoffs]. Maybe this time everybody's doubting and there's some concerns, and we're learning and getting better. Maybe that's the way."

But they're dealing with issues a team this good, this successful, with so many quality players, shouldn't have to. For example, who is the leader? There's no single voice that holds sway in the locker room. Nash, with his two MVP awards, would seemingly have the credentials. But you don't get the feeling his teammates play for him the way, say, the Hornets do for Chris Paul. When he does air the occasional public criticism of his team's efforts it doesn't exactly have the same effect as Larry Bird calling out the Celtics in the middle of the 1984 NBA Finals.

And you never get the sense the team's other stars -- Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire -- are content to play subordinate roles and let Nash get the bulk of the credit.

Is Stoudemire selfish to want more touches, which was the implication by his words and actions after the ball didn't come his way in a loss to New Orleans Saturday night? Or does he want what's best for the team? Because the numbers indicate the more Amare scores, the more the Suns win. They're 16-2 when he scores 20 points or more this season.

It's Stoudemire who gives them the inside scoring threat they need in the halfcourt set. He was the one who drew three trips to the free-throw line (making five of six shots) in overtime to help the Suns prevail Wednesday.

"My team depended on me, and I came through," Stoudemire said. But he was also partly responsible for the Indiana's 17 offensive rebounds and 22 second-chance points, a reminder of how costly his defensive and box-out lapses can be.

We learned from his costly suspension during the San Antonio series last year just how vital Stoudemire is to the Suns when he's playing well. His mood also dictates the biorhythms of this team. There was enough doubt about his motives when he said he missed practice Sunday to tend to his son's fever that Suns GM Steve Kerr said the matter would be "handled internally" -- a strange phrase for something that normally would be summarized with just a quick announcement from the public relations director.

Kerr met with Stoudemire to address the situation. Any and all fires need to be doused immediately; the Suns don't have the luxury of what firefighters call a "controlled burn." There isn't enough time. Inevitably, salaries (such as Marion's?) will continue to get dumped to avert the luxury tax. Nash will have a tougher time staying healthy. Teams will continue to adjust to Phoenix's style, including the Pacers' strategy of defending Nash with a bigger guard.

So the question remains: Can the Suns win this way? They've come close, making two trips to the Western Conference finals. They've been close enough to make one old-school NBA executive who always believed you win with size say, "They're making me wonder."

They have won six of their past seven, but only one of the victories came against a team with a winning record.

And they don't seem to be getting closer. In this league, if you're not getting better you're getting worse. The most telling stat was that the Suns are just 2-6 against the top Western Conference teams.

I came to Phoenix on Wednesday and saw the Suns' season summarized tightly enough to fit in an e-mail subject line. They won, but they didn't inspire confidence.

J.A. Adande is the author of "The Best Los Angeles Sports Arguments." He joined ESPN.com as an NBA columnist in August 2007 after 10 years with the Los Angeles Times. Click here to e-mail J.A.

[sunsdotcom]

Apparently Kerr wants us to slow it down a bit and get amare some more touches (which i think was already talked about in another thread) but Dantoni wants to keep the uptempo game going with equal touches to all.

i think you go to the guy who's hot instead of players getting equal touches or amare getting a specific number of shots.

if a guy like banks is shooting the lights out, then you keep feeding him until he scores 50.

[sunsdotcom]

where the ball should go:

1) to the guy who's hot
2) to the guy with the favorable matchup advantage inside
3) to the guy who's open outside

[ShelC]

You start inside and work from there. If theres a hot hand, get the ball inside with a set play to get that guy a good shot. If Raja or Barbs are feeling it from 3, dont just push the ball up court and get them the ball where they have to create a shot for themselves or are just going to pull up with a guy in their face. They need to stay in the rhythm and get a good shot. And if theyve hit 2 or 3 already, the defense is most likely aware and is goin to be expecting those guys to take a shot. The defender will look to stop the guy or the adjustment will be made to deny the ball. If you get the ball inside, it throws the defense off and takes the onus off the perimeter player. Then you can run a play for the perimeter guy and get him off a screen where he can get open, or at least more open. But it is also contingent on the inside player recognizing the circumstances and getting the perimeter player the ball. That might be an area where Stouds is lacking, unlike a Duncan, Yao, KG, or even Bosh. It would do more damage to the team in general, and mostly chemistry wise, if Rajas hit 2 or 3 shots, is feeling it and looking for more; we get the ball to Stouds, he goes right at the basket and misses and the other team comes back down and scores on us. Thats when youd see a guy get frustrated at a teammate for not using his head or recognizing (or worse, not caring) who the hot hand is.

[jed]

Interesting stuff. Not sure it happened as the rumor says, but I have no no doubt that Suns management is questioning all methodology and options at this point -- including our style.

[ShelC]

We know they had a closed door meeting a few weeks ago. I dont doubt theres been talk about working the ball into stouds with more halfcourt stuff. With Kerrs experience as a player, maybe not so much in Chicago but definitely playing with DRob and Duncan in SA, he knows how this league operates, especially in the playoffs. And as a shooter, you get open when the low post player draws the defense. He was able to play how many more years just spotting up on the outside while guys collapsed on DRob and TimD?

[jed]

I'd be willing to bet that Kerr knows the value of going inside-outside. It opens things up for shooters and gets plenty of looks at high percentage shots, rather than just freelancing from the perimeter.

I'm with you, Shel. I have no doubt Kerr and probably more people are pushing this notion.

[v9]

I'd be willing to bet that Kerr knows the value of going inside-outside. It opens things up for shooters and gets plenty of looks at high percentage shots, rather than just freelancing from the perimeter.

I'm with you, Shel. I have no doubt Kerr and probably more people are pushing this notion.

For anyone in management not named D'Antoni, it should be a no-brainer.

[JustWinBaby]

It should be a no brainer that Amare gets his touches. The record shows it is the best way to victory.

However as important as that is, Eddie Johnson last night brought up what I have been preaching forever. Most of our rebounding woes are directed at Amare, that is just not true. Far too many times Amare is the only one attempting to get a rebound and the ball boucnes long and our opponents grab it and kill us on 2nd chance points. This is after Amare has caused a miss by the opponent with his defense. Over the last 4 seasons I believe our defense on the 1ST SHOT has been pretty good. Everyone in this league can score points. Indiana was shooting out of their minds for awhile last night and that is just what happens as far as I am concerned. However I truly believe that the book to beat us is to stay back on their offensive glass in that we virtually send everyone except one or two on a fast break far too much. We may lose a few of those plays were we score in 2 or 3 second but I believe we will gain more by limiting the oppositions opportunities. This needs to be fixed and can be fixed with the current roster, I think.

We are the best shooting team in the league and given the same number of shots we are extremely difficult to beat.

Boris while improving still has a long ways to go. Last night IMO he had a fair game. He kept the ball moving but far too many times it really looks like we are playing 4 on 5, with his reluctance to shoot and inability to make a shot.

Defensively I think Amare has plenty of company. Who really thinks Boris is a capable defender? I am willing to be educated. Nash surely is not a great defender and gets beat by his man a lot, as much as Amare, but most nights puts in the effort. LB gets out muscelled by a lot by bigger guards. Amare is generally under sized and out muscelled by bigger players but generally will make up for those lapses sometime during the game with a game changing block or stop. Marion has been as up and down on the defensive end as anyone. We need more consistent effort every night from him.

This is a long season and every team is not perfect. We may in fact have the pieces in place to beat anyone , I certaininly hope so and firmly planted on the wagon.

Go Suns

[ShelC]

For the record I dont think Kerr and MikeD are "going at it". Maybe they are, but i doubt it. The thread title (no offense v9) might suggest there was a blowup between the two recently, but i dont think thats the case. I think there has been some discussion between Kerr and MikeD and they probably arent seeing eye-to-eye. MikeD wants to run for 48minutes. Kerr probably does want a more controlled game, especially in late game situations. I said a few days ago that it seems like MikeD could be feeling the weight of expectations, and with a GM who has the owners backing (we know Sarver and Kerr are buddies), might feel pressure to win this year. But we also know MikeD is stubborn and seems intent on winning his way to prove his system works, as opposed to conceding sometimes and playing the grind-out game.

Even after last years playoffs when KT was the only guy who could even bother TD, MikeD held form and said he felt like we too often conformed to the Spurs style. The opposite was true of course and we were a much better team with KT out there guarding TD.

It also may not just be an issue of Amare getting more touches, but also going bigger and having Skinner see more time on the floor, and with Amare.

[ShelC]

Who really thinks Boris is a capable defender?

Ive said before that i think Boris is a better 1on1 post defender than Amare. He has much better balance and a better feel bodying a guy up and making the offensive player go where he wants. Thats the key to defense; trying to make the offensive player do what u want him to do and go where you want him to go, rather than the other way around. Too often Amare just trails behind the offensive player and lets him go whereever he wants; this usually leads to Amare playing behind the guy while the guy sets up 8-10 ft from the basket, already in great position. When it comes to team defense and shotblocking, Amare is clearly better.

On the perimeter is where Boris really suffers. He sucked in atlanta cuz they had him playing in the backcourt where he just doesnt have the footspeed to defend on the perimeter. Forget about 1s and 2s, i dont even like Boris on the perimeter guarding 3s. He should be guarding most 4s thos.

Probably the most frustrating guy on the team is Barbs. He should be a lockdown defender with his physical gifts. If he learned positioning and staying home defensively, he'd be great. But too often, hes jumpy and his athleticsm does more harm than good.

[JustWinBaby]

Who really thinks Boris is a capable defender?

Ive said before that i think Boris is a better 1on1 post defender than Amare. He has much better balance and a better feel bodying a guy up and making the offensive player go where he wants. Thats the key to defense; trying to make the offensive player do what u want him to do and go where you want him to go, rather than the other way around. Too often Amare just trails behind the offensive player and lets him go whereever he wants; this usually leads to Amare playing behind the guy while the guy sets up 8-10 ft from the basket, already in great position. When it comes to team defense and shotblocking, Amare is clearly better.

On the perimeter is where Boris really suffers. He sucked in atlanta cuz they had him playing in the backcourt where he just doesnt have the footspeed to defend on the perimeter. Forget about 1s and 2s, i dont even like Boris on the perimeter guarding 3s. He should be guarding most 4s thos.

Probably the most frustrating guy on the team is Barbs. He should be a lockdown defender with his physical gifts. If he learned positioning and staying home defensively, he'd be great. But too often, hes jumpy and his athleticsm does more harm than good.

Shell

I think that is a fair assessment.

What really scares me is when Amare is chasing a PG around out on the perimeter. He is a magnet for fouls to begin with and he usually picks up at least one per game that must be avoided IMO.

Tonights game should be very interesting. I wish DJ were here.

[ShelC]

What really scares me is when Amare is chasing a PG around out on the perimeter.

I cannot stand seeing Amare guarding on the perimeter. I literally close my eyes. He doesnt know how to get in a defensive crouch, with 1 foot in front of the other, knees bent, on the balls on his feet and funneling the smaller guy towards the help. Instead, he walks out with feet shoulder width apart, feet flat (leaving him completely off balance when the guard dribbles at him) and arms straight out at his sides. He literally looks like Frankenstein walking around with that slow, stiff, side to side rocking motion as he moves out further.

He does the same thing when guarding post players but its less noticeable because he's not walking out, but rather bodying them up with his chest/torse. Again, hes upright, his feet are flat, arms out at his sides or up in the air (which leads to him swiping) and he's using his torso to defend instead of lower body strength, positoning and leverage.

Thats why it was night and day watching Amare guard TD and watching KT guard TD in the playoffs. KT knows how to lean, use leverage, and use his forearm in a guys back to keep him from gaining position and backing down. Or you at least use the forearm and leverage to dictate the offensive players moves (usually towards the help or baseline where he hopefully gets stuck). And KT was the master of using 1 forearm in the back of the post player and the other arm straight in the air, switching accordingly to whatever direction the post player is moving.

[Billyjoejimbob]

Thats why it was night and day watching Amare guard TD and watching KT guard TD in the playoffs. KT knows how to lean, use leverage, and use his forearm in a guys back to keep him from gaining position and backing down. Or you at least use the forearm and leverage to dictate the offensive players moves (usually towards the help or baseline where he hopefully gets stuck). And KT was the master of using 1 forearm in the back of the post player and the other arm straight in the air, switching accordingly to whatever direction the post player is moving.


I think because of his strength KT is much better at position defense than Skinner also. We really don't have a good low post position defender this season.

[Uncle_Gene]

. Teams will continue to adjust to Phoenix's style,


I agree BIGTIME with this statement. D'Antoni has to learn.

[ShelC]

I think because of his strength KT is much better at position defense than Skinner also. We really don't have a good low post position defender this season

Ehh....i think Skinner is only slightly worse in this department. Hes bigger than KT, bulkier yet more athletic. I ddefintiely dont think hes weaker physically than KT. If anything he may be stronger, but KT is just craftier and smarter with his defense. Its those little nuances on the game KT knows about. I just dont think Skinners really gotten a chance to distinguish himself in this regard.

[Billyjoejimbob]

I just dont think Skinners really gotten a chance to distinguish himself in this regard.

You may be right, but Skinner seems to get pushed back a lot easier than KT. When Duncan tried to back KT down it was like he was running into a wall, I haven't seen Skinner hold his position against anybody like that.

[Ring_Wanted]

KT is a better defender, but Skinner is good too. One advantage Skinner has over KT is his shotblocking. For $1.2M, you can't ask for much more.

[JediSkywalker]

If Kerr wants Dantoni to slow down the game, Kerr has not helped him at all. He is the one who traded away our best defensive player KT. Of course Dantoni failed to recognize his value so he is at fault too.

[scosuns]

Well, we were trying to stay under the cap, or at least get as close to it as we could, which is why we traded him in the first place. If it wasn't going to impact us that much, then he would still be here. This year's team is not going to win a title. I'm sorry. They just wont. They don't have a solid low post defender, and there seems to be chemistry issues going on. They need to figure out something. Obviously we are having a very successful season, but that doesn't mean that everything is cheery and merry.

[RDM2]

Well I mean looking at the way Kerr was the one to meet with Amare it looks like he is truly in Amare's corner, so thats one piece of evidence that sort of backs up any statements made regarding Kerr vs D'Antoni but I still don't know if I believe it.

[scosuns]

UFC 87: Kerr vs. D' Antoni

A coach and a GM will go head-to-head. See the stubborn Italian D' Antoni go to war with Steve 'I've got rings' Kerr in an epic battle to correct an almost cursed franchise. Watch as the GM gives suggestions, and D' Antoni just ignores and continues to run his players into the ground.

Also on the fight card is the State of Arizona vs. Diaw: See Borissa get his butt whooped by all his haters. Watch as he thinks about trying but then just moves around for no reason at all.

Live at US Airways Center! Only on Pay-Per-View....