Tuesday's News: A barnburner not to be missed - and I missed it.....

[SwingMan]

Suns respond, destroy Nuggets (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0107suns.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/pics/0107sunscover.jpg
Suns guard Steve Nash greets Leandro Barbosa after Barbosa nails a shot Monday.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 7, 2008 09:39 PM

Suns fans could have felt bad about Phoenix's 1-6 record against the Western Conference's top eight seeds. But now they can feel better that their team is 4-0 against division leaders.

Suns fans could worry about the rumbling Amaré Stoudemire's absence at Sunday's practice created. But now they can feel better that the Suns were talking about having fun again.

Suns fans can wonder about how long Monday's utopia will last. But, for a night, they had to enjoy beating Denver with 46 first-quarter points, 20 3-pointers and a season-high tally in Monday's 137-115 win.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

The 3-point total tied a franchise record, Shawn Marion's do-it-all night included five 3-pointers and Suns fans continued to get reacquainted with Marcus Banks, who made a career-best seven 3-pointers to score 23, the most he has posted in a game with the Suns.

"We needed this win," Marion said after his 27-point, 14-rebound, six-block game that came after his second lowest scoring game of the season.

The only ones displeased with Phoenix's deluge was Denver, irked by Phoenix piling on two more 3-pointers in the game's final 40 seconds.

"They got happy and cocky and they rubbed our faces in the game a little bit," said Denver coach George Karl, whose team played its fourth game in five nights. "It'll be fun the next time we play them."

Nuggets guard Allen Iverson was animated before he even left the floor.

"If we get the opportunity, we won't try to show them up," Iverson said.

The Suns might have throttled any team with the way the offense clicked early. The Suns posted 32 points in the game's first 7:18, scoring on each of their first 15 possessions except for a Grant Hill miss on fast-break dunk attempt.

All of Phoenix's big men were mired in foul trouble but never let Denver cut the lead to single digits for the remainder of the game. Nobody could complain about Marion's three fouls when he was doing everything else, joking that he even passed his hot hand to Banks in a handshake.

"It's definitely contagious," Banks said of his recent good outings. "I hope to build from this game, not so much scoring-wise but in other areas on the floor."

It was just the Suns night, from center Brian Skinner making his second career 3-pointer and two free throws on the same trip, to clearing the bench. Phoenix had one second-half scare when Denver trimmed the lead to 11 (101-90) late in the third quarter but the Suns again could do no wrong.

Stoudemire did not take the quarter's last shot but made a jumper with seven seconds to go. Banks fouled Iverson, who missed both free throws to set up Barbosa's buzzer-beating 3-pointer.

Report

Cheers

Marcus Banks scored 23 points, his highest total with the Suns, and made seven 3-pointers, the best of his career, and had some big defensive moments.

Jeers

Boris Diaw was 2 of 8, grabbed one rebound and was foul-plagued, but did have six assists. Then again, assists were plentiful aplenty on this night.

Player of the game

Shawn Marion scored 27, made five 3-pointers, grabbed 14 rebounds and blocked six shots.

View from press row

For a third consecutive game, Marcus Banks validated the fans who always call for him to play more. Banks exited in the second quarter to a partial standing ovation Monday. It wasn't just the two 3-pointers he made. It was the hustle and havoc he brought on defense.

- Paul Coro

[SwingMan]

Amaré, Suns move forward (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0107sunsside.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/pics/0107sunsins.jpg
Amaré Stoudemire blocks a shot by Nene on Monday.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 7, 2008 10:49 PM

Center Amaré Stoudemire returned to the Suns on Monday and the team tried to return to normalcy.

That was not easy after Stoudemire did not come to practice Sunday, setting off speculation that he was upset with not getting shots in the third quarter and final six minutes of Saturday's loss.

Stoudemire, who notified the team by text message on Sunday that he would be absent, said Monday that he was absent because his son had a 103-degree temperature that returned to normal Monday.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

"There was nothing basketball there at all," Stoudemire said. "I don't know how it became basketball-related, probably because of the loss and guys were frustrated. It was strictly for the health of my son. That was the only reason. I could see why you may think it's basketball-related because it's a loss. We should have won and guys were upset about the loss."

Suns General Manager Steve Kerr said management dealt with the issue before Monday's shootaround, and the resolution would be kept private.

"I'm happy with the way we handled everything and the way Amaré responded, and now we move on," Kerr said.

The Stoudemire absence has brought up the bigger, ongoing issue of team chemistry.

"We don't collectively believe enough," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said, noting the lack of an "aura."

"We can't seem to get on the same page to correct stuff."

A day after contemplating changes, D'Antoni said Phoenix has to press on with the league's top offense and an improved defense. He and Kerr acknowledged that is fair to question whether Stoudemire should be a greater focus in the offense. But just as D'Antoni noted they could have found Stoudemire more down the stretch Saturday, he points out that Stoudemire's shots and points are up from last year and the team is atop its division.

"The reality is the way we play, the ball will find the right guys," Kerr said, echoing D'Antoni's and Steve Nash's frequent sentiment. "There's a reason just about every year guys seem to have career years when they come here . . . It's because the ball moves, we space the floor and we play the right way."

The Suns entered Monday at 1-6 against the top eight Western Conference teams. Kerr noted how, as a TNT analyst, he doubted Miami when it went 2-12 against division champs in 2005-06. The Heat won the title.

"They've won some games but they're just beating up on bad teams, basically," Kerr told USA Today before the 2006 playoffs. "It's not often that you all of a sudden see teams start beating good teams in the playoffs when they haven't done it all season. There is little reason to believe Miami can win the whole thing."

Phoenix had won four in a row with Stoudemire averaging 31 points before one day's events stirred up concerns that have lingered since October.

"It's amazing," Suns forward Shawn Marion said. "It seems with all the positives, the negatives come out anyway."

Nash took it in with optimism, saying, "It's been a frustrating year but that's good. Maybe that suffering and frustration will be better for us in the long run."

[SwingMan]

(Paola Boivin even checks in from her blog)

Suns show aptitude in win (http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaolaBoivin/14128)

That whole dismantle the team thing, Suns fans? Might want to rethink that.

You perceived an iceberg in the distance; the captain saw only rocky waters. Judging by what the Suns did to Denver on Monday night, Mike D'Antoni is right: It's too early to abandon ship.

The Suns played like a team that took recent criticism of its heart to, well, heart.
By the end of the first quarter, they had seven second-chance points, the same as they had the entire game against New Orleans on Saturday. By the end of the first half, they had 19 assists to the Nuggets' eight. By the end of the game, they had one of their best outings of the season.

The 137-115 victory showcased an effort that drew several standing ovations from the US Airways Center crowd during the game.

The Suns behaved like a group trying to quell rumors that chemistry was an insurmountable problem. If Steve Nash wasn't pleading Amaré Stoudemire's case to an official after Stoudemire was tagged with a foul, Raja Bell was doing the same for Boris Diaw. Nods were exchanged and hands slapped after memorable passes and baskets.

This is not to suggest this is a team without flaws. Stoudemire erred in his handling of his absence from practice Sunday. If his son was sick, fine, but don't let the team know by text message to a trainer. Call your coach. Better yet, find a way to show up.

But take it for what it was. Bad judgment. The man is not a cancer, as some fans are beginning to suggest. It is an unfair tag for someone who has worked as hard as Stoudemire has, who has been a positive face for the franchise, who gave the Suns 20 points and 10 rebounds on Monday.

The same applies for Shawn Marion. His off-season pouting was poor judgment, but it shouldn't define him. You will find few in the NBA who do as much for the community, who have the athleticism suited for this offense, who can put up a scoring line like Monday's: 27 points, 14 rebounds, six blocks.

This behind-the-scenes moodiness has been going on with the Suns forever, just like it does with other teams.

When a team struggles, it bubbles to the surface. What those inside this organization will tell you is that although this group has issues, they go away quickly. You want cancers? Spend a season playing with Ron Artest. Or Stephon Marbury.

It's a tough thing for us to grasp, this universe of fat contracts, inflated expectations and hero-worshipping. It is mind-boggling to us that a player making millions could want a trade, or that a team leader could miss a practice so nonchalantly.

That's what Stoudemire and Marion and everyone else on this team needs to remember. Every move is scrutinized. Questionable choices spur nasty speculation, and the last thing a team whose success is predicated on chemistry needs is a bunch of rumor and innuendo.

Suns General Manager Steve Kerr said the team isn't panicked about the Suns' 2-6 record against the West's current playoff seeds.

"You want to bust through that door and expectations change," Kerr said. "There are frustrations throughout the year. On every team I've ever been on, it's happened."

Let's not forget that D'Antoni's system is based on trust, effort and chemistry. When the Suns excel at all three, as they did against the Nuggets, they're impossible to stop.

The focus on this team should be tapping into the energy displayed on Monday, not trading for different parts.

Before the game, D'Antoni offered a diatribe of why he thinks the Suns are fine. Then he smiled.

"That sounds like what the captain of the Titanic said."

Maybe, but the hunch here is that the only thing D'Antoni will need to navigate is the occasional rough waters.

[SwingMan]

(The latest from Paul Coro's blog)

Don't bank on Banks' PT (http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/14130)

This is Marcus Banks' best three-game stretch of the season. Of course, that's not the best compliment for a player who hasn't had the chance to play in three consecutive games since early November.

But everyone is celebrating Banks right now. That streaky shot that he says he hones at home with relatives is locked in right now. He is 10 of 12 from 3-point range in the past two games, doing exactly what Phoenix envisioned for him as it tried to recreate a role for him this offseason.

They were giving up on the idea of having him run point and wanted him to play off the ball so that they could still get something out of his speed and defense (not to mention that five-year, $21.3 million contract).

But even as Banks has played well for 19- and 20-minute stints in the past two games, don't get comfortable with that. At least that's the gist of coach Mike D'Antoni's postgame comments on Banks. He called Banks' play a "first step."

"What he needs to do and, he's doing it, is learn how not to foul in crucial times (see end of third quarter), how not turn it over (only two in the past two games' 39 minutes), how not to jack one up, how to be a real good team guy," D'Antoni said. "He's trying.

"It takes a lot for opinions to change too. It's not like the first day I saw him. Every move, there's a counter move. Raja Bell has 24 minutes (of playing time Monday). Go see if he's OK with that. It's just not as easy as you play and you don't. You can't just come in and do that to people. I do want to keep playing him. It might be five minutes here, 10 minutes here, depending on how the game goes. But I have to be able to count on him no matter what and I think right now I can."

And he pointed out how the Suns don't have a problem scoring. Banks seems to have some idea of what D'Antoni is thinking.

"I hope to build from this game, not so much scoring wise but in other areas on the floor."

More minutia as you can again celebrating being atop the Western Conference after San Antonio's overtime loss at Golden State:

* Here's more of George Karl's Eric Musselman impersonation on the Suns running it up late with more 3-pointers: "I'm not going to get into the philosophy of how you finish games off. I think players should play hard but I'm not sure you should flaunt the 3-ball." Karl's whole "It'll be fun the next time we play them" take sounded a lot like Mike D'Antoni after Phil Jackson ticked him off with the double time out.

* Karl excused the loss by saying, "It was a bad timing game. They had a bad loss and obviously they're disappointed with how they've been playing and they came out with a professional attitude to improve and show their pride and generally you can't give a team 15 straight baskets at the beginning of a game on the road against one of the top five teams in the NBA."

* Denver shot 42.7 percent, which is the fifth low opponent shooting percentage in the past six games. Again, D'Antoni said the Suns are improving defensively. "Come April, we will be a better team," he said.

* The Suns had 13 blocks to Denver's four but the Nuggets still are the NBA's top shot-blocking team, although the lead narrowed to 7.35 to 7.18.

* Shawn Marion had more points (10) and as many rebounds rebounds (seven) in the first quarter Monday as he had in all of Saturday's game (six points, seven rebounds).

He had the best postgame anecdote. A media member threw the media under the bus with some question about how they proved the media wrong, to which Marion responded, "We're in first place so y'all can say what you want to say and we're going to do what we want to do. I'm a grown-ass man." But it was only great because Marion cracked himself up with the last part.

Even he knows all is not bliss, later adding, "It still ain't there yet."

* The Suns haven't lost consecutive home games this season.

* D'Antoni's opening postgame comment: "I think our death was a little overexaggerated."

* D'Antoni after the win: "Just happy we're here instead of yesterday."

* Steve Nash is 9-3 in head-to-head matchups with Allen Iverson. Nash was as cautious as usual in the good times, saying, "You're going to have nights like this when everything goes in but it can be just as fun to go out there and hustle and play together and grind out wins. I think it's more of a matter of us being consistent with our effort."

* A few players talked about how Steve Kerr's lecture at the morning shootaround fired them up.

"You can't expect Steve to make a Knute Rockne every day," Nash said.
It sounded like accountability and trust were major themes in what Kerr and D'Antoni spoke about. Kerr was surprised, even embarrassed, that the players were talking about it, saying, "They're the ones who made 20 threes."

Kerr did not return to Phoenix because of the Stoudemire situation. He just returned earlier from his Rancho Santa Fe home than he would have. He got to his family home Sunday morning and returned to his business home in Phoenix later Sunday.

* Guess who has the highest two 3-point shooting percentages on the team? Brian Skinner (100 percent on 2 of 2) and Banks (52.5 percent on 21 of 40). Sean Marks is the only Suns player who has not made one.

* The Suns got away with being poor rebounders again. Denver had 23 offensive rebounds and 27 second-chance points. But the Nuggets only shot 42.7 percent. The Suns were active on their own offensive boards early, feeding off the scoring energy to get three follows, the last of which was an emphatic Amare Stoudemire slam follow that made it 31-15.

[SwingMan]

5 minutes with Alando Tucker (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0107p2fiveminutes0108.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/pics/0107tucker.jpg
Suns rookie Alando Tucker takes a shot over Utah's Ronnie Brewer during a preseason game in October.

Doug Haller
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 7, 2008 05:46 PM

We caught up with Alando Tucker, who is learning the importance of patience in his rookie season with the Suns.

Question: What's the biggest thing you've learned since being drafted?

Answer: "Just not rushing your opportunity. I'm playing with a great team, and to be in this position, I'm trying to gain as much knowledge as I can watching the veterans. That's the thing I've learned the most, just observation."
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

Q: Is it hard to keep your confidence with such limited playing time?

A: "Look at this team. We're first in our division. We have a chance to win a championship. I'm a rookie playing with five All-Stars, (and) seven of the best players in the league. It doesn't hurt to know that I'm behind that core."

Q: What do your friends and family want to know about this experience?

A: "What's it like to play with Steve Nash? That's everybody's first question. I tell them it's great, just to see some of the things he does on the court. But it's not only him. Seeing some of the things Amaré (Stoudemire) does, and Shawn (Marion). It's amazing. I tell them it's a dream come true."

Q: What kind of player will you be in five years?

A: "Man, I just want to keep working. I can't really say where or what I'll be. I'm just going to try and work as hard as I can to be a key player on a winning team."

Q: Scoring doesn't seem to be a problem.

A: "Yeah, that's the one thing I've been able to do my whole life, so I just need to work on my other parts of the game. If I can do that, who knows where I'll be."

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Naturally, hitting 20 3 pointers is fun...and when the shooting gets that hot, a loss should be out of the question. I still feel we have more than sufficient reason for concern. Why?

I think Mikie can't think clearly in a pressure situation..ie, tight or very intense games. I think this may be why he's had such problems with in game adjustments (playoffs, etc.). Naturally, this is WHY you have more set/practiced/structured/PRACTICED in game plays setup to go to when things get tight...to turn off the brain a little and look for some execution you've practiced to the point you can program it...but this is what we 'don't' do...what Mikie has refused to do. This coupled with the historically demonstrated stubborness to adjust and try other players...not when the team is ahead by 78 to xx in the first quarter, but having troubles...is why I don't think its time yet to say the ship has righted itself, and hug kiss all is well. I still feel D'Asshat's butt is on the line...and this needs to translate to modifications to in game management in some future big games...or again...flush him.

VT

[AmareIsGod]

"It takes a lot for opinions to change too. It's not like the first day I saw him. Every move, there's a counter move. Raja Bell has 24 minutes (of playing time Monday). Go see if he's OK with that. It's just not as easy as you play and you don't. You can't just come in and do that to people. I do want to keep playing him. It might be five minutes here, 10 minutes here, depending on how the game goes. But I have to be able to count on him no matter what and I think right now I can."

Yeah coach? You're a fucking tool...

[Vladimir_Taltos]

"We don't collectively believe enough," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said, noting the lack of an "aura."

"We can't seem to get on the same page to correct stuff."

A day after contemplating changes, D'Antoni said Phoenix has to press on with the league's top offense and an improved defense. He and Kerr acknowledged that is fair to question whether Stoudemire should be a greater focus in the offense. But just as D'Antoni noted they could have found Stoudemire more down the stretch Saturday, he points out that Stoudemire's shots and points are up from last year and the team is atop its division.

"The reality is the way we play, the ball will find the right guys," Kerr said, echoing D'Antoni's and Steve Nash's frequent sentiment. "There's a reason just about every year guys seem to have career years when they come here . . . It's because the ball moves, we space the floor and we play the right way."


Case in point...it has nothing to do with playing too thin off the bench, to having set plays to inject at critical moments, to being able to execute a practiced half court game, to not playing a Center WITH Amare at PF and Shawn at SF at times, etc. etc. etc. No, it couldn't be his fault...its all aura and prayer beads and magic crystals. For cryin' out loud...is he EVER going to learn?????

VT

[Phoenix219]

Raja getting 24 mins is a good thing - rest him, get him healthy....24 minutes is still enough to stay in game shape and keep the rust off..

[Vladimir_Taltos]

...not if he's hurt to the point where he should be taking a week off so the rest of the season he's not dragging around some issue that becomes chronic...because the coach is again too stubborn to play other players, etc.

VT

[Xcon]

Looks just because a guy shoots 7/8 for 3's or whatever, plays good d, hustles, etc doesn't mean he should play. Especially when all those factors are things we've been lacking. No instead we need to worry about getting D'Antoni's favs enough minutes even if they're not producing because he "trusts" them more. Makes perfect sense. By the way, great game but I'm not ready to switch to optimism mode yet. Let's see them do this a few more times, then maybe.

[Phoenix219]

We signed him to play, knowing he'd be 8th or 9th in rotation. We gave him the money, hoping he'd produce. Now he produced in the slot we've given him doing exactly what we need and it might not be enough??

[DrSublime]

i was at the game (lower bowl section 207)
and wow.. what a game that was, my first game in 10 years and i sure picked a good one!

Marcus Banks played exceptional last night.

the entire crowd was yelling at Boris to shoot when he was open, it was a little dishearting

Amare is a beast, and Nash is just beautiful and barbosa is lightning quick, Bell is solid all together.
Marks and Pike are horrible and Tucker may be decent someday.

but wow at Banks, great D on Iverson and his shot was on fire, the whole arena was cheering for him the whole game after that 1st defensive play on AI

[ShelC]

I agree that we really havent solved anything per se. We've been consistantly inconsistent, so we need more games like last night. Not necessarily 20 3s, 78 first-half points, etc., but the energy, the focus, the shooting, the fun. We were just sharp last night, for the entire game.

"Every move, there's a counter move. Raja Bell has 24 minutes (of playing time Monday). Go see if he's OK with that. "

Hey, how about youre the coach and you make the decisions. You dont have to placate everyone. Raja hasnt been shooting well and Banks was locking down on the guards while shooting well. Its for the benefit of the team, just like playing Skinner more minutes and getting Amare the ball more often on offense. Do you work for Raja? Are u scared of him?

I understand we need to play our starters along with Barbs and even Boris. But look at some other teams and their bench minutes. They consistently get their 9th and 10th guys in the game for 8-15mpg. I really think MikeD doesnt know how to do this everynight. Thats why Skinners minutes arent where they should be either and hes our 8th guy.

Let's not forget that D'Antoni's system is based on trust, effort and chemistry.

Those are philosophical and not things you can really guage or control every night, which is why we're not on our game everynight. How about defense, passing and shot selection?

In general, i have to say ive been thoroughly impressed with Amares shotblocking. Maybe hes understanding defense better, maybe his timing is back coupled with his athleticm, maybe the game is slowing down a bit, maybe Skinners been helpin him...i dont know. But i love it.

The nuggets are crying? Theyre frustrated? Get over it. They want a rivalry, fine. I just dont want to see it escalate into anything dirty, which is something Karl might resort to. They played the game poorly and didnt show up. And IIRC, they got the lead down to about 11 at the end of the 3rd. They were making their push, he's probably just pissed we really ended the game and didnt allow them to make a push, or at least take our starters out so they could get closer and make the score a bit more acceptable. It was a statement game for us and we wanted the blowout. Maybe its an unspoken rule to let the blownout team get closer in the final minutes.

[SpecialSauce]

I fucking hate D'Antoni. He's the main reason we have cliques in the locker room. It's so obvious who his boytoys are (Nash, Boris, LB, Bell), and who are definitely NOT his favorites (Shawn, Amare, Banks, Skinner). He plays favorites and plays and praises guys based on how much he likes them, not their performance. Any other coach in the league would shrink Bell's minutes down to 10, while boosting Banks'. But no, D'Antoni has to worry about Bell's sudden ego. Fuck yourself you soft ass piece of shit.

[ShelC]

Rajas shot just isnt right. He can hit the midrange shot, but his 3pt shots are coming up way short. Hes line-driving them. It doesnt seem to be a lack of lift from his legs, but rather shortarming the shot and not getting enough arc on it. He doesnt need to be benched or have his minutes dropped to 24, but you can drop him down to 30 and work Banks in. Raja wont go King Kong if his minutes drop by 4 or 5.

[Mori_Chu]

Argh. I hate the backhanded compliments Coach is giving Marcus Banks. What a dick. How can you say something like this after Banks goes crazy with 7/8 3s and Raja has been injured and rusty as hell for weeks?


Every move, there's a counter move. Raja Bell has 24 minutes (of playing time Monday). Go see if he's OK with that.

WTF? Does Raja have pics of Coach getting it on with one of the ballboys or something, that he's using as blackmail? Hey coach, how about being the freaking COACH, and telling the players what you want from them. You don't even have to "go see if (they're) OK with that."

[ShelC]

Its clearly a case of MikeD still holding a grudge against Banks for his attitude last year and maybe even over the summer. I dont know if he still has an attitude or if he and MikeD just dont get along at this point. But Banks seems to be working on his jumpshot and conforming to the system. Hes doing what coach wants, his attitude seems improved and hes saying all the right things. Give credit where credit is due and play the guys that give you the best chance to win games.

"It takes a lot for opinions to change too."

Thats the most telling statement about how he views Marcus.

[desertcoast]

Why can't coach just say "he did a great job tonight; he's showing me what he can do for this team...he'll see some more time"
He has to psychobabble the compliment to death until it's no longer a prop.

I agree it's too early to celebrate Banks, but Mike seems to expect starter-type numbers out of a 9th man... who is given anything from 6th man to 12th man minutes.
How does a guy find any consistant rhythm in that?

[Billyjoejimbob]

The only ones displeased with Phoenix's deluge was Denver, irked by Phoenix piling on two more 3-pointers in the game's final 40 seconds.

"They got happy and cocky and they rubbed our faces in the game a little bit," said Denver coach George Karl, whose team played its fourth game in five nights. "It'll be fun the next time we play them."

Is he serious? IIRC, isn't Karl the one who got accused of this last season and he said it wasn't showing up the other team because his team had been inconsistent and he wanted them to continue what they were doing to try and get some consistency in their play. Now, it is the same scenario of another team who has been playing inconsistent and they happen to go off on his team so he's going to cry like a little girl in a school yard? C'mon George.

[Nodack]

You guys are more pissed off after this blowout win than the last lost.

Banks HAS been getting more PT and Banks played 20 minutes last night. What do you freaking want?

You definitely DON'T speak for me.

<sigh>

:roll:

[Jinx]

You guys are more pissed off after this blowout win than the last lost.

Banks HAS been getting more PT and Banks played 20 minutes last night. What do you freaking want?

You definitely DON'T speak for me.

<sigh>

:roll:

I was about to say the same thing...couldnt have said it any better Nodak. :wink:

[Billyjoejimbob]

Yeah, I agree Nodack. I think last night we saw what this team is capable of when they play together with a common focus and high energy. No, their shots aren't always going to fall like they did last night, but if they are playing the same way they will still be in the game. I think Nash had it right when he said that they all have to pull for each other in the game. When everybody on the team wants the team to do well and pulls for the other players the chemistry problems aren't as evident. Communication is very important in the way they play, especially on defense and if they are all on the same page as a team the defense we saw last night is what is possible.

[desertcoast]

You guys are more pissed off after this blowout win than the last lost.

Banks HAS been getting more PT and Banks played 20 minutes last night. What do you freaking want?

You definitely DON'T speak for me.

<sigh>

:roll:

I was about to say the same thing...couldnt have said it any better Nodak. :wink:

maybe you guys need to go back and read the posts.....
conversation was mostly about D'Antoni's post game comments about Banks, and how that translates to future playing time.
Well, maybe now you don't have to, as I just explained it for you :mrgreen:

[Billyjoejimbob]

You know dc, I think sometimes everybody just over analyzes everything. D'Antoni said Banks had earned playing time and he was going to continue to play him. Everything he said after that was trying to cover his ass so that if Banks starts to suck again after playing for a few months and he has to bench him again, he won't have to answer a bunch of questions about Banks being in the dog house. Although it probably won't work, that's what it seemed like to me. It's just like when Amare didn't come to practice and everybody was going off on what D'Antoni and Kerr said in the media which was basically nothing, but there was a lot of reading between the lines and speculation. Take it for what it is. D'Antoni said he was happy with the way Banks played and he was going to continue to play him.

[ShelC]

Banks only got playing time against NO because Raja was out and Barbs got into foul trouble in the 1st half. Otherwise, he wouldn have gotten off the bench and shown his ability to defend and knock down the 3. If that doesnt happen, he doesnt play last night and go on a scoring tear and lock down AI. And if he didnt play last night, AI wouldve gone for at least 45 on us, guaranteed. He had Barbosa on skates whenever Barbs was guarding him. MikeD is begrudgingly using him.

[Phoenix219]

I've never been on the "its Coach's fault" wagon, but seeing what integrating the 2 rooks, Banks and Skinner can do for this squad, i'm definately wobbling on the fence there... If we were Dallas or SA, we'd even have Marks in there for 5 minutes to hack someone, or Pike in there for 5 minutes just to launch a couple 3s when no one was paying attention, and we'd have a couple plays set up to get Tucker a couple easy buckets.

Our top 9 definately needs to play consistantly, and an alternating 10th woudln't be a bad idea, not one to save for just blowouts. Both DJ and Tucker tore up the D League.

[desertcoast]

I also think D'antoni ( and the players) are just sick to death of answering the media right now. There's a distinct burn-out factor with that relationship, and it shows in the terse comments. Every quote comes out a bit worse than perhaps intended.

But... it's part of what you sign up for when you go into that profession.

[zara_drummer]

Didnt Banks have a stretch of games last year where it looked like he was getting it together?? Then when he got more time he went back to sucking eggs again??

I'm pretty sure Mike D is happy with Banks play of late, but is not ready to proclaim him the missing piece or anything like that...He's made some progress, and he'll have to continue to make progress...

Obviously he needs to get consistent minutes to show that he can produce...I hope he does...i still hold out hope that he can be a good player in our system here.

[Xcon]

How come Raja gets a pass? His play has been horrid, yet he continues to get minutes. And since when did he become a star that deserves minutes regardless of his production. If Raja can't hit shots, give Marcus a chance. He's been a whole lot more accurate from outside than Raja. That really opens things up.

[jed]

To the whole Raja vs. Banks point, Coach certainly has his favorites.

I also loved how Diaw was allowed to stay on the court with 5 fouls last night, when Amare was immediately sent to the bench for getting his.

[ShelC]

How come Raja gets a pass? His play has been horrid, yet he continues to get minutes. And since when did he become a star that deserves minutes regardless of his production. If Raja can't hit shots, give Marcus a chance. He's been a whole lot more accurate from outside than Raja. That really opens things up.

Raja is a coach's wet dream because of how hard he plays and the kind of gritty defense hes known for. Hes a warrior and hustle player, so a coach will always give those guys passes even if theyre struggling. Marcus isnt that kind of player, or at least didnt come to the team as that type of player, so MikeD doesnt hold him in any kind of regard. Even in his quotes, MikeD said opinions (of guys) dont change easily. It will take some doing for Marcus to really prove himself in MikeDs eyes. I just hope he gets a legit chance to play thru any rough spots that may pop up, rather than getting the hook and being tied to the bench the rest of the way.

I also loved how Diaw was allowed to stay on the court with 5 fouls last night, when Amare was immediately sent to the bench for getting his.

I dont think that had much to do with anything about favorites. I think it had to do more with Diaw being more expendable than Stouds with regards to fouls. IIRC, it was in the middle of the 3rd or a little later. You dont want Stouds fouling out at that point in the game, whereas Boris can and you still have Stouds to go with rather than vice versa. And being up 20 or so, you can let Boris play it out and maybe try to get into more of a rhythm offensively. He needs the minutes, Amare doesnt.

[Billyjoejimbob]

I also think D'antoni ( and the players) are just sick to death of answering the media right now. There's a distinct burn-out factor with that relationship, and it shows in the terse comments. Every quote comes out a bit worse than perhaps intended.

But... it's part of what you sign up for when you go into that profession.

I know it's part of the landscape to have to deal with the media in their profession. All I am saying is to keep it in mind when dissecting their comments that they are trying to quell the concerns of everybody and still heal what is wrong with their team at the same time. It's not an easy job and I would prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and not read too much into what they say.

[sehan]

Jinx and Billy, I got to disagree.

Its a simple question: how do you feel about Banks tonight and will he get more playing time in the future."

He should have just answered it plane and simple like he usually does. Something in the lines of

He played great. I really like what he did out there tonight. If he continues to excel, you bet I am going play him more. Period

Instead he has to go into this whole soliloquy about how he has not foul in critical times and to give him minutes he has to take minutes off of Raja and he doesn't want hurt his feelings blah....

It is almost as if he is already setting up his defense for when the press comes back a week later and asks him, so how come you are not playing Banks after that great game against the Nuggets.

I was hesitant at the beginning of the season, but now I am definitely with the crew that saying Mike has his favorite boys club. To get him to say nice things about anyone else on the team is like pulling teeth.

[Nodack]

Raja gets a pass because he has proven himself over the past few years. Raja has run into a lot of bad luck with several twisted ankles and a new back spasm problem this year. The ankle's have healed and the back spasm thing looks like it might stay around. He also just had the flu. It's not that Rajas has started sucking this year. Many have said bench him until he heals. His ankles have healed and everybody gets the flu. He has used up all of his bad luck tokens for the year and he should hopefully stay healthy.

I also get tired of this coach D favorites list talk. Coach D plays his short rotation since the beginning of time. That's the way he plays it. You can agree or disagree, but harping on it every day, year after year gets a little annoying. Fine, some of you hate coach D's substitution patterns. We get it. We have been told several thousand times. If you are on the 8-9 man list you are in good shape. If you aren't on the list then you aren't going to see a lot of PT.

Banks played well last night and I am pulling for him to do well. He still isn't going to take Raja's job away from him any time soon.

[Xcon]

I know Raja is a tough guy and hustles and tries hard. But if his shot isn't falling, then he's hindering the team I think. We need shooters to stretch the defense. When Raja is hitting, I'm fine with having him out there. But if he's throwing up 1/7 from 3, I think it's time to bring in Banks to see if he still has a hot hand.

[duck44]

You guys are more pissed off after this blowout win than the last lost.

Banks HAS been getting more PT and Banks played 20 minutes last night. What do you freaking want?

You definitely DON'T speak for me.

<sigh>

:roll:

Me either. This shit gets old.

[sehan]

ShelC,

Agreed why Raja is the coaches wet dream, but when we always insist that all the players be and act like professionals shouldn't we expect the same from the coach and expect that he is not swayed by his emotions or favorites?

The question should be simple in their respective current state who helps us win, period.

Not only that, how about the spurs philosophy of lets assume our starters are professionals and they will get their grove on by April. Lets use the fist half of the season (till all stars) to get minutes to the bench players and developing players to see what we have in them and get them ready to play in-case one of our starters are not able to go in the post season.

I wouldn't mind even if we had double the losses that we had so far, if those losses came with decent minutes to our bench players. Who care what our record is at this point as long as we are developing players (for insurance) and getting ready for the big dance.

We all scream and panic when we loose, cause we are loosing while going 100% with our starters and loosing while we are sacrificing health of our key players. This probably contributes to our supposed chemistry issues as well.

[INFORMER]

Banks played well last night and I am pulling for him to do well. He still isn't going to take Raja's job away from him any time soon.

WHO HERE WANTS THAT? Who is advocating that Banks replaces Raja? Please. The point is, take some minutes away from Nash, Raja, and Barbosa and give them to Banks. 10-20 minutes a night. Let's not blow this out of proportion and act like we're all asking for Banks to play 40 minutes and for the offense to be run through him. It would just be nice to keep the team a little bit fresher (especially Raja, who has been banged up from the very beginning of the season). Banks has imrpoved upon his 3 point shot, and he has great physical tools on D. Some of the fans just want to see those things get a chance to be displayed.

BTW: How about Banks getting at least HALF of the latitude Boris Diaw has gotten? Boris has stunk for a year and a half now, and still gets consistent playing time. I'm not saying Boris should be benched (I agree with D'Antoni playing him) but let's give Banks a little more slack. If Boris was on the same leash as Banks, he'd be racking up DNPs as well.

[INFORMER]

I wouldn't mind even if we had double the losses that we had so far, if those losses came with decent minutes to our bench players.

:-?


We all scream and panic when we loose, cause we are loosing while going 100% with our starters and loosing while we are sacrificing health of our key players. This probably contributes to our supposed chemistry issues as well.

Food for thought.

[Nodack]

Western Conference Standings

1. Phoenix Suns

You would think we were in last place from reading this board.



We all scream and panic when we loose, cause we are loosing while going 100% with our starters and loosing while we are sacrificing health of our key players.


We won, we are in first place. 100% with our starters? There are 5 starters. 12 players on the Suns played against Denver. NOBODY played over 32 minutes. Our bench that supposedly doesn't play I guess, played over 100 minutes last night.

Did I watch a different game than you did?

[Split_T's]

I wouldn't mind even if we had double the losses that we had so far, if those losses came with decent minutes to our bench players. Who care what our record is at this point as long as we are developing players (for insurance) and getting ready for the big dance.




You realize we would be 14-20, down there with the clippers, kings, and sonics. Well out of the playoff picture in the west. We wouldn't be going to the big dance.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Nodack...you know darn well its not the place we're in right now causing all the concern, its the fact that our schedule has favored us dramatically to date and the real challenge games that have come our way have either been one's where the opposing team didn't look up to snuff or one's we flat out lost. The Laker's 2 losses, etc. have left a lot of us questioning things. Last night's game, if we hadn't been setting a record for 3 pointers, would have given use more fuel for analysis...but we did, so it doesn't. Given the schedule with the Lakers and Utah coming up, we'll see if Coach is getting his head out...read, for one, does Skinner get at least 15 minutes a game as an example with Shawn and Amare in the game at the same time!...and some wins of course...and we'll see. I don't have a lot of hope, cause D'A has shown he's more than a bit inflexible.

VT

[Nodack]

BTW: How about Banks getting at least HALF of the latitude Boris Diaw has gotten? Boris has stunk for a year and a half now, and still gets consistent playing time. I'm not saying Boris should be benched (I agree with D'Antoni playing him) but let's give Banks a little more slack. If Boris was on the same leash as Banks, he'd be racking up DNPs as well.

Boris does get a lot of slack and PT. His shot hasn't been on and he hasn't played near as well as he did when Amare was gone. He does play a spot that is a weak link for the Suns. If Boris doesn't play then it's all Skinner. Diaw has to play or you start bringing in the Flying Kiwi.

I wouldn't mind seeing Banks get some more PT and maybe coach D has a thing against Banks, I don't know. Coach D doesn't trust Banks very much as far as I can tell, but slowly but surely Banks is climbing out of the dog house.

[sehan]

I wouldn't mind even if we had double the losses that we had so far, if those losses came with decent minutes to our bench players. Who care what our record is at this point as long as we are developing players (for insurance) and getting ready for the big dance.




You realize we would be 14-20, down there with the clippers, kings, and sonics. Well out of the playoff picture in the west. We wouldn't be going to the big dance.

Ok perhaps I spoke in haste, but I hope you get the jest of my thought. I rather concede the 1st place ranking, if that meant we can go in the playoffs with more weapons and a healthier team.

[Nodack]

I don't have a lot of hope, cause D'A has shown he's more than a bit inflexible.

Coach D is inflexible in playing the way you want him to coach, but you are assuming he cares how you want him to coach?

Our schedule is fine. We lost to a few good teams, but we have a better record than everybody else does. Those teams we lost to haven't been playing the top five teams in the NBA every night, they play some crappy teams too and they all have lost to some of those crappy teams too. What does that prove... not much, but this "We haven't played anybody yet so our record doesn't count" crap gets old every single year.

[sehan]

Western Conference Standings

1. Phoenix Suns

You would think we were in last place from reading this board.



We all scream and panic when we loose, cause we are loosing while going 100% with our starters and loosing while we are sacrificing health of our key players.


We won, we are in first place. 100% with our starters? There are 5 starters. 12 players on the Suns played against Denver. NOBODY played over 32 minutes. Our bench that supposedly doesn't play I guess, played over 100 minutes last night.

Did I watch a different game than you did?

Nodack, not sure if there is true miscommunication here or if you are just tired of all the complaints. My comments are directed at Mike's comments regarding Banks and his lack of willingness to play Banks in the future and not against last nights game. Additionally, one game does not make a trend (the said trend being Mike willing to play the bench more, specifically Banks).

Discussion at point is not last nights game, but the fact that Mike plays favorites and is not willing to give a capable bench players a chance. In the process risking chemistry issues as well as health of the team.

[SwingMan]

The nuggets are crying? Theyre frustrated? Get over it. They want a rivalry, fine. I just dont want to see it escalate into anything dirty, which is something Karl might resort to. They played the game poorly and didnt show up. And IIRC, they got the lead down to about 11 at the end of the 3rd. They were making their push, he's probably just pissed we really ended the game and didnt allow them to make a push, or at least take our starters out so they could get closer and make the score a bit more acceptable. It was a statement game for us and we wanted the blowout. Maybe its an unspoken rule to let the blownout team get closer in the final minutes.

You know what? Fuck those little punk bitches - didn't see any whining from 'em when Karl ran Iverson to the tune of 43 minutes with 44/15 against us in a 131-107 Nuggets blowout win against us last year.

Sack up and play or get the fuck out of the way.

[zara_drummer]

Raja's gotta play and he's gotta keep taking his shots...Teams expect him to make them and even if he misses, he still stretches the defense because he has a reputation for making those shots.

I do agree that he should sit if he's hurt, but it looks like that decision is up to Raja and Raja alone. Is that right or wrong?? If the coach asks his guy if he's good to go and the player says yes, than all coach can do is trust his player.

All this favorite talk is bullshit IMO. Mike plays his best players...the players that produce and contribute the team concept...The ones that dont or cant dont play or arent ready to play.

As much as we all like Tucker and DJ, they are obviously not ready to run full time with this team. Hence their split duty in the D-league. I'm ok with that too...It does take time for players to adjust to this system of trust and reactionary play. Later this season and next season will be the time we see the rooks contributing.

[ShelC]

Is that right or wrong?? If the coach asks his guy if he's good to go and the player says yes, than all coach can do is trust his player.

Whats a competitive athlete going to say, 9/10 times? Of course hes going to want to play.

All this favorite talk is bullshit IMO. Mike plays his best players...the players that produce and contribute the team concept...The ones that dont or cant dont play or arent ready to play.

Yea but you have to bend a little bit too. You cant expect perfection, especially from your 9th and 10th guys. Thats why theyre 9th and 10th guys. Most of those guys are role players who specialize in certain areas anyways, so you try and find a common ground where theyre successful at what theyre doing while not hurting the team with their weaknesses.

[v9]

"It takes a lot for opinions to change too. It's not like the first day I saw him. Every move, there's a counter move. Raja Bell has 24 minutes (of playing time Monday). Go see if he's OK with that. It's just not as easy as you play and you don't. You can't just come in and do that to people. I do want to keep playing him. It might be five minutes here, 10 minutes here, depending on how the game goes. But I have to be able to count on him no matter what and I think right now I can."

Yeah coach? You're a fucking tool...

This is getting ridiculous. To the point that there needs to be a change.

If this keeps up, it will be Mike D's time to go.

[zara_drummer]

I dont think he expects perfection...but he does expect them to play within the system...like last year when Burke used to come in a jack up 3's then complain about PT...

Its pretty easy to tell who's out there for themselves...I dont think its so bad this year, bu last year JuJo was like that and Burke obviously...

This year, this team is unselfish almost to a fault...I think they pass TOO much sometimes and it causes spacing and flow to go out the window.

We've all gotta understand that these coaches see these guys everyday for practice and shoot around and whatever else...They know the tendencies of players, if they are selfish or undisciplined etc..

[ShelC]

The coaches are human too. MikeD said opinions are hard to change. He may have pigeon-holed Banks or plain didnt/doesnt like his attitude. Maybe banks isnt a real team guy, outgoing or being the ra-ra type. Maybe hes just coming in, doing his job and trying to do what it takes to get PT. I can live with that so long as hes contributing and not hurting the team. Hopefully MikeD can as well. Not everyone has to be as loveable as Barbosa, which seems to be part of the criteria when it comes to getting cut some slack.

It does seem like Banks' spirit has been broken a bit. He may really be miserable on this team and just working out on his own, doing his own thing to try and make it thru another tough season of not playing. Maybe hes biding his time and waiting to be traded. That could show thru to the coaching staff and weigh on their decision.

[SunsRIt]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but here goes:

I have always thought Melo was a tool, but he is all over the court and very aggressive around and getting to the basket. He demands the ball and is relentless when he gets it.

I wish Amare was still like that.

That being said the game last night was unbelievable to watch.

[misteradiant]

i think phoenix suns fans are a little hard on the team. what the team needs to do is play like they did last night against the lakers in 9 days. that will get them the love they deserve.

it's interesting that paola boivin wrote that suns fans are calling amare a cancer. i wonder where those fans are, because nobody here said that. you all better be happy to belong to this little club, because out there, the fans are idiots. no matter how insulting i can be over posts that rub me the wrong way, at least nobody here said amare was a cancer. sheesh. imagine being on that message board. god bless phxsuns.net.


A few players talked about how Steve Kerr's lecture at the morning shootaround fired them up. It sounded like accountability and trust were major themes in what Kerr and D'Antoni spoke about. Kerr was surprised, even embarrassed, that the players were talking about it, saying, "They're the ones who made 20 threes."

i read this after giving props to kerr for what he said to the team in another thread. nice to see the team not only responding on the court, but to the press. i have been unsure about steve kerr as our gm and have stated reasons why but right now, i couldn't be happier with how he is managing this team. it is nice also to see him and coach mike on the same page. i'd like to buy steve kerr a turbodog at voodoo daddy's (near cactus and tatum - sose and misteradiant recommended).


raja bell has 24 minutes. go see if he's okay with that."

my guess is if you ask raja, he's okay with that. you guys are over-reacting to this quote. he is being sarcastic. i saw him say it in the after-game show during his press conference. you're jumping down his throat like he's saying he's worried about giving guys minutes and that couldn't be farther from the truth. the point of the sarcasm is that raja doesn't care, so mike doesn't care. there are other reasons for his short bench, which of late, isn't so short at all. if 9 guys get solid minutes and nobody is over 32 minutes, why are you accusing him of worrying about the "7 starters" getting theirs? they got theirs at 22 minutes or more. which is actually what grant hill played. everybody played 24 minutes or more in a blowout. so much for over-playing grant. giving skinner and banks 18 and 20 minutes each produced a very satisfying win.


Those are philosophical and not things you can really guage or control every night, which is why we're not on our game everynight. How about defense, passing and shot selection?

you are such a party pooper sometimes. you want fratello coaching the suns. it's obvious. i like mike's philosophy. always have. what i've been bummed about is how the team is communicating. recent play was passionless. the teamwork, methodical. last night we saw some business, but you know winning kills all ills. that's what the k is for. the k is for "hurt you too." that's from a poem of mine. hope you liked it. anyway, mike's philosophy is more fun to watch than any other, and as a fan i demand the most entertainment i can get for my time and money. i want to be the fans of the team that is most fun to watch again. fuck boston. i still want to see them in the finals this year where we can have a shot at avenging 1976. what fun that would be. fuck them then, too.

:cool:


I fucking hate D'Antoni. He's the main reason we have cliques in the locker room. It's so obvious who his boytoys are (Nash, Boris, LB, Bell), and who are definitely NOT his favorites (Shawn, Amare, Banks, Skinner). He plays favorites and plays and praises guys based on how much he likes them, not their performance. Any other coach in the league would shrink Bell's minutes down to 10, while boosting Banks'. But no, D'Antoni has to worry about Bell's sudden ego. Fuck yourself you soft ass piece of shit.

somebody was asking for my hyperbole trophy a little while ago. i have to tell you it was stolen by stids. ever seen a simpsons episode where homer has a trophy or certificate made out to someone else with their name scratched out and his name written instead? it's like that. give it back, special thousand island dressing sauce.

speaking of special sauces, i just had the best sandwich made for me. it was toasted on 12-grain bread, and was a maple and honey roasted breast of turkey sandwich with melted muenster cheese and avocado, with grey poupon and mayonnaise with lettuce. yum. i've also got that sam adams 12-pack sampler. opening beer four right now. yum squared.

why can't the suns win it all.

nodak said it all when he said "You guys are more pissed off after this blowout win than the last lost. Banks HAS been getting more PT and Banks played 20 minutes last night. What do you freaking want?" exactly. what more do we want? we want to beat the lakers in 9 days and we want to win a championship. we want to win 80% of our games until then. that is what we want. do i think we need to win 80% in the regular season to win a championship? no. do we need to beat the lakers in 9 days? probably. i don't want the suns taking this one game at a time. i want them to see each game as a must win so we can face the lakers with a 5-game winning streak. the lakers schedule looks easy but for their new orleans game. if they lose that, we'll have a better streak when we meet and it sets us up nicely to extend to ten or more games, if you check our schedule. yeah, there's utah coming sooner, but i think we have their number this year. it will still be an exciting game.


I also think D'antoni (and the players) are just sick to death of answering the media right now.

i have thought the same thing. right on, 'coast.


I also loved how Diaw was allowed to stay on the court with 5 fouls last night, when Amare was immediately sent to the bench for getting his.

my guess is that he was going to play him until he wanted to, not because of fouls. in the end, with all the fouls on our guys, did you feel any stress that we were in trouble as you watched the game? i give coach thumbs up for his work last night. we kicked ass from beginning to end. kerr might deflect responsibility for the win, but he was involved, too. as was every player who took the floor except boris. boris gasps for anus-flavored fart cologne. it is what he craves. "mmm," says boris, "i don't fart, i am the fart and the puckering trumpet tube. i am everything."

david carradine has already been paid, and he leaves waving and smiling. he enjoyed playing boris diaw at sixty. the movie is called, "i have them," and is a fictional documentary directed by robert rodriguez. look for it this summer.

[SpecialSauce]

I'm not talking about last night, I'm talking about his quotes. He's saying that Banks' performances have done absolutely nothing to earn him a permanent spot in the rotation. Banks should play at least 10 minutes, EVERY GAME. I guarantee he's out of the rotation when the Lakers game comes around, if not sooner.

[Doctor_G]

Good posts Mr and Nodack. Nice to see a a cpl of guys able to enjoy a win without searching for something to bitch about. Quite refreshing. Count me in.

Here's hoping to carrying over last nights emotion, intensity, chemistry, our play on defense, and last but not least...the genuine fun the team seemed to have together all game long. Just think, we blew Denver out of the water with little help from Doris, and limited mins from Amare. We've all been hard on Boris (and rightfully so), but he does wear a Phoenix Suns Uniform...let's not forget. Until he no longer wears a Suns uniform, I'm going to pull for him. We're stronger with Doris becoming Boris again, ala "most improved Boris" of not so long ago.

[desertcoast]

ya know..
D'Antoni had one comment in his post game interview that really did resonate with me...he mentioned how last year at this time, we were having exactly the same conversations about what was wrong with the Suns..
and how they weren't beating the better teams.

And that is absolutely true. Even when we had the gaudy streaks going, much of the talk was denying the substance behind those streaks ( bad teams, the East, etc..)

As fans, we are ( if anything)..predictable :wink:

[AlanS]

D.J. Strawberry: D-League Performer of the Week, January 7, 2008

D.J. Strawberry of the Albuquerque Thunderbirds, on assignment from the Phoenix Suns, is the seventh D-League Performer of the Week for the 2007-08 season.

Strawberry averaged 34.0 points in two games last week, posting scoring totals of 39 and 29 points. He closed out the week with a line of 39 points, seven rebounds, six assists, and two steals in an 89-87 win over Fort Wayne. For the week Strawberry also averaged 6.5 rebounds and 5.5 assists while shooting .585 (24-41) from the field. He also connected on .571 (8-14) of his attempts from three-point range.

A 6-5 guard from Maryland, Strawberry was the 59th overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft. He is averaging 31.6 points, 3.8 rebounds, and 3.2 assists in five games since being assigned to the D-League on December 18. Prior to his assignment, Strawberry appeared in six NBA games for the Suns, averaging 2.0 points. (PS: DJ is also averaging a very worrisome 4.8 TOs per game.)

Honorable Mention:

Morris Almond, Utah: Almond averaged 29.5 points and 4.0 rebounds in two games for the Flash.

Randy Livingston, Idaho: Livingston averaged 16.0 points, 13.5 assists, and 5.5 rebounds in two games.

Sammy Mejia, Fort Wayne: Mejia averaged 24.0 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists, and 2.5 steals in two games for the Mad Ants.

C.J. Watson, Rio Grande Valley: Watson averaged 33.5 points, 6.5 rebounds, and 5.5 assists in two games for the Vipers.

Marcus Williams, Austin: Williams averaged 23.5 points, 13.0 rebounds, and 5.5 assists in two games for the Toros.

>The fact that Randy Livingston is a top performer in the D-League says a lot about the quality of that league's talent level.

[AlanS]

To the whole Raja vs. Banks point, Coach certainly has his favorites.

I also loved how Diaw was allowed to stay on the court with 5 fouls last night, when Amare was immediately sent to the bench for getting his.

[1] Yes, Raja is a favorite compared to Banks. But that's the way it should be. Raja has EARNED that. Look at last season: Bell was on the All-Defensive team, and I think he led the NBA in 3PTers made. Bell SHOULD be a favorite.

Raja has had problems with his health, and these probably explain some of his shooting struggles. But all shooters go thru slumps, even Reggie Miller had shooting slumps. But guys who have proven themselves deserve some time to get their game together. I think Raja has earned that.

[2] Meanwhile, let's give D'Antoni some credit. Banks played 19 minutes vs NOH, and Mike gave him 20 minutes vs the Nuggets despite Raja being back in the line-up. In fact, Banks got some PT in the 4th qtr that Raja would usually get. Isn't that a good thing?

But let's be for real: the reason Banks has been sitting is because he has stunk up the court. It's hard for me to understand... Banks has been villified mercilessly here and elsewhere, since he came here. But now, guys can't understand why coach is hesistant to give him more PT just because of 1 or 2 good games? I don't get it.

[3] RE: Boris not being taken out... what is the issue? Amare was sent on the bench because, if Boris fouls out, who cares... but if Amare fouls out, the Suns are losing their top scorer and only inside threat. A smart coach does what D'Antoni did, which is to make sure his best player is available later in the game.

[AlanS]

You know what? Fuck those little punk bitches - didn't see any whining from 'em when Karl ran Iverson to the tune of 43 minutes with 44/15 against us in a 131-107 Nuggets blowout win against us last year.

Sack up and play or get the fuck out of the way.

I can't understand these controversies over teams supposedly running up the score.

If a team is winning a blow-out, but the starters are left in the game to pad their stats while the other team has put their subs in the game, I could see complaining about running up the score.

But if it's garbage time, and the players at the end of the bench for both teams are getting time to play they usually don't, I say anything goes. I expect the players to put out a full effort and impress the coaches. If Karl's theory, or any other coach's theory, is that players should stand around and do nothing nothing for several minutes, that's his problem.

[AlanS]

I'm not talking about last night, I'm talking about his quotes. He's saying that Banks' performances have done absolutely nothing to earn him a permanent spot in the rotation. Banks should play at least 10 minutes, EVERY GAME. I guarantee he's out of the rotation when the Lakers game comes around, if not sooner.

Sauce, your statement is absolutely incorrect. This is what D'Antoni said:

"What he needs to do and, he's doing it, is learn how not to foul in crucial times (see end of third quarter), how not turn it over (only two in the past two games' 39 minutes), how not to jack one up, how to be a real good team guy," D'Antoni said. "He's trying.

"It takes a lot for opinions to change too. It's not like the first day I saw him. Every move, there's a counter move. Raja Bell has 24 minutes (of playing time Monday). Go see if he's OK with that. It's just not as easy as you play and you don't. You can't just come in and do that to people. I do want to keep playing him. It might be five minutes here, 10 minutes here, depending on how the game goes. But I have to be able to count on him no matter what and I think right now I can."

The gist of it is: if Banks stops f***ing up on the court, he can get more PT.

The things that D'Antoni says Banks needs to do are reasonable to demand. That's what got Banks 20 minutes of PT in last night's game. We'll see if Banks can keep this up.

Meanwhile, the comment about Banks "being a real good team guy" is key. I read at least one article, maybe two, about last season which said that Banks was a negative factor in the locker room last season. I can sympathize with Banks being unhappy about his minutes, but it's intolerable that a guy becomes a locker room cancer. I don't think it got THAT bad, but there were problems. It does seem that Banks is now doing his best to stay in D'Antoni's good graces... again, we'll see if this can be maintained over an extended period of time.

One other thing: I think some people are taking it too lightly that it's important to maintain a fixed rotation. This is a quote from Joe Smith, in an article in today's USAToday:

"I think that's the key to any team's success, having a rotation and knowing when you're going to go in, when you're coming out of the game, how many minutes you're going to play," Smith says

NOW WAIT! I'm not saying that if a guy shows he can contribute, he should be stuck on the bench just to maintain the current rotation. The point is that, it's reasonable for a coach to worry out loud if a change in PT patterns is going to negatively affect the team... it's not something that D'Antoni should be beaten over the head for saying.

[desertcoast]

Speaking to the off-court factors: Gambo characterized Banks as being a "last to arrive,1st to leave" guy for practice/shootarounds. He implied that Mike and the staff had really given up on Bank's empty "I'll do whatever it takes" rhetoric without any real work to back it up.

Yet today when Banks characterized himself as the opposite ( arrive first, leave last), Gambo called him on it...and Banks insisted he has changed.

So..maybe the behind scenes rift between Coach and Banks has been eased by a change in his work ethic. Maybe that's the only reason we've even seen the guy in the last few games.

We just see the court time....Dantoni has to make those decisions based on all of it.

[sunsdotcom]

Charley Rosen on Marcus Banks:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7633536


Now that the trade winds are blowing, here's a list of those players most likely to be dealt in the upcoming weeks, along with their market value.

Shawn Marion (9 out of 10 on the value scale): The Suns need to make a major adjustment if they hope to seriously challenge the Spurs. Other than scraping their entire run-and-gun game plan, trading Marion is their most viable option.

Marcus Banks (5): Always had All-Star talents, and somebody just might gamble that he now has the mind-set to match.


Vox Populi

Hey Charley, I agree with you that competitive sports can reveal a lot about a player's moral fiber (or lack thereof). Can you put together a squad of NBA All-Star knuckleheads? To qualify, the guy has to be very talented but also such a knucklehead that his behavior ultimately screwed up his career. — Jeff, Singapore

Here's the current lineup:

Ron Artest: Frittering away his immense talents with his out-of-control behavior and his out-of-control verbiage.

Marcus Banks: Has as much sheer talent as any point guard in the league, but can't get along with anybody. Should be a perennial All-Star.

[AlanS]

Just a few other comments:

[1] Obviously, Suns fans are jaded and spoiled over the positive characteristics of this team... we just plain take them for granted.

Case in point: nobody's mentioned that the Suns shot 53% from the field in 2 straight games. Folks, this is freakin' REMARKABLE. As I mentioned in another thread, only 4 NBA teams even average over 47% shooting for the season. Shooting 53% for just one game is huge, shooting 53% for 2 games in a row is outstanding.

Now, this is where somebody says, "who cares if they don't win, or they don't enough rebounds." Well, the answer is, we DO care, or we should care. The Suns are first and foremeost an offensive team. But they have had some offensive issues this season. If the Suns can work those kinks out, their weaknesses in other parts of the game won't be so difficult to overcome.

But anyway... I find it a joy to behold. The Suns are playing offensive basketball at an outstanding level right now, and I find it a thing of beauty.

DAMMIT guys, enjoy this! OK?

[2] One point that has been made, is that some guys get criticism while other guys don't. I don't get a lot of this, but one thing for sure: Steve Nash is not getting some criticism he does deserve.

Specifically: his one-on-one defense has been bad, and it's a factor in the Suns' losing games. Versus the Hornets, Nash allowed Jannero Pargo - Jannero Pargo, folks - to go off for 19 pts on 8/12 FG shooting. In the last Seattle game, Earl Watson had 20 pts, on 8/18 FGs. Stat wise, Watson outplayed Nash for the game, getting more points and rebounds, and he had 8 assists to Nash's 10.

It's quite obvious that teams are using a strategy of going at Nash. One game where this really hurt was in the Suns' loss to the Warriors. Nelson had his players attack Steve at every opportunity. If I recall, Monta Ellis scored 15 straight points in the 4th qtr, and I think a lot of that was with Nash guarding him.

This is not to say that Nash sucks, or needs to be benched, or whatever. But it just seems to me that his lousy defense is getting the teflon treatment from the fans and press.

[3] For all of those who jumped the gun and said Amare's no-show at practice was the sign of locker room dissension: now that you know Amare was home to help take care of sick kids... isn't it fair for you to say, "my bad?"

[4] It's surprising to me - well, maybe it shouldn't be - that we really haven't said much about Steve Kerr's speech to the troops. If Kerr was quoted as saying that he was angry, that the team sucked, that changes needed to be made, etc, these pages would be full of that and a lot more from the fans.

But the fact that he made a positive speech that showed his support for the team - well, that seems not to register with or move the fans at all. It seems like angst rules Planet Oh No.

[Nodack]

Alan, you are going to have to stop posting because your posts have been making WAY too much sense and that's just not going to get it done around here. :)

Seriously, glad to have you aboard.

[Mori_Chu]

I'm sorry, AlanS; I respect you a lot as an insightful veteran poster here on the board, but I totally disagree with your post. I do realize that we have a good team and that we should enjoy the highs as much as (or more than) we bemoan the lows. For my part, I was totally fired up after the trampling of the Nugs the other night, much more emotional than I get when they lose.

But that doesn't mean I have no right as a fan to call out the team when they are half-assing it and not playing up to their potential. That doesn't mean I give the coach a free pass when he uses lineups I think make no sense, or openly discriminates against a talented player (or players) on our bench who could otherwise be helping the team. That doesn't mean I give our very talented big men a pass to take plays off and play only on one end of the court.

This team is very talented, and we should enjoy that while it lasts. But I get no enjoyment out of watching talent squandered. Imagine that you buy a ticket to see your favorite rock band, a bunch of extremely talented musicians. But then they show up after a night of partying and play an out-of-sync concert where the timing is way off, and the lead singer's voice is raspy and off-key. How would you feel as a fan?

You can't fully appreciate all the talent you're watching unless they use it to their potential and play as well as we all know they can play. The Suns, I mean.

[sunsdotcom]

marcus banks on gambo and ash

http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhoenixSunsPodcast/~5/213553088/ktar_banks_080108.mp3

[sunsdotcom]

One point that has been made, is that some guys get criticism while other guys don't. I don't get a lot of this, but one thing for sure: Steve Nash is not getting some criticism he does deserve.

Specifically: his one-on-one defense has been bad, and it's a factor in the Suns' losing games.

i'm not gonna criticize nash on defense because i don't he can do better than what he is showing right now because he's slow and not physically gifted, unlike amare.

[AlanS]

I'm sorry, AlanS; I respect you a lot as an insightful veteran poster here on the board, but I totally disagree with your post. I do realize that we have a good team and that we should enjoy the highs as much as (or more than) we bemoan the lows. For my part, I was totally fired up after the trampling of the Nugs the other night, much more emotional than I get when they lose.

But that doesn't mean I have no right as a fan to call out the team when they are half-assing it and not playing up to their potential.

You can't fully appreciate all the talent you're watching unless they use it to their potential and play as well as we all know they can play. The Suns, I mean.

Mori, I understand your frustration. If you're a Suns fan, then ultimately, all you care about is did the Suns win or lose? And if they lose when you think they have the talent to win, you get upset, and rightly so. It's fair to highlight the the things that the Suns are doing wrong.

The thing I'm saying is, the Suns are not a dysfunctional band. As a basketball fan, not a Suns fan, I look at this team and I say wow, offensive basketball doesn't get any better than this. It's something that can be appreciated regardless of whether some aspects of their game aren't great, such as their rebounding.

I just think it's also fair to highlight the things the Suns are doing right. I think a lot of fans lose sight of that, and I think it takes away from the enjoyment and appreciation of this team. But if all that a guy wants is wins... I can see why the enthusiam might be curbed about now.

[Xcon]

One point that has been made, is that some guys get criticism while other guys don't. I don't get a lot of this, but one thing for sure: Steve Nash is not getting some criticism he does deserve.

Specifically: his one-on-one defense has been bad, and it's a factor in the Suns' losing games.

i'm not gonna criticize nash on defense because i don't he can do better than what he is showing right now because he's slow and not physically gifted, unlike amare.

Exactly. It's not like Nash is getting burned on defense for lack of trying. Rather, I think it's a lack of physical gifts. And I think when we hold say Amare to higher standards on defense, it's because we (the "whiners") believe he has the physical gifts to play better defense it's just a lack of hustle or not playing smart. But even then I won't lay it all at Amare's feet for his problems on defense, he shouldn't be guarding big centers imo. But then you'll need to talk to the coach about that.

[jed]

One point that has been made, is that some guys get criticism while other guys don't. I don't get a lot of this, but one thing for sure: Steve Nash is not getting some criticism he does deserve.

Specifically: his one-on-one defense has been bad, and it's a factor in the Suns' losing games.

i'm not gonna criticize nash on defense because i don't he can do better than what he is showing right now because he's slow and not physically gifted, unlike amare.

I can't get behind that one.

Either Nash is doing everything he can to help us win or he's not. Since a lot of his decision-making has been spotty this year -- as evidenced by his characteristic turnover numbers -- then I'm going to go ahead and say that he needs to button up as much as anyone else on the team.

I don't care what he's overcome. He's been called to play a certain role with us, and I expect him to fulfill that.

[EDC]

Was a great game against Denver the other night. Was a lot of fun to watch. I just wanted to clarify why I get down on the Suns. It has nothing to do with regular season wins or losses. I know we will make the playoffs. I think a lot of people, myself included, see a copy of previous years. We haven't added anything new to the mix in the offseason. We added Grant Hill but that doesn't alter our team that much. The goal is a championship. I figured after all the time Coach D has had to work with this team we would look much better in certain situations.

Those situations being half court offense, last minute shots, and team defense. It is honestly like no work has been put in on the Coaches part in these categories. The goal is to beat the Spurs and in order to do that we need to be good at those three things. Instead we never improve on them. We haven't in the past 3 years. Individually players have improved but where is the overall improvement to the team game. I honestly believe the coach has failed us.

Can we win it all this year? Yes. If the Spurs are playing like they did last year in the playoffs it will take great shooting for us to get by them. The problem is I think we could beat em with mediocre shooting from the outside if we had a better offensive set. The talent is there it just isn't being taken advantage of fully.

So when complaining for the most part it isn't that we just lost a game it is more about seeing the lack of teamwork and game plan. These great regular season runs just aren't cutting it for most fans these days. We know Coach D won't change. He has been coach long enough to prove that. If we win the championship(I hope to God we do) it will be because our superior talent overcomes our lack of coaching.

This is of course just my 2 cents.

[Coop]

I honestly only think the reason Banks is being played is to be showcased for the trade dead line. Plain and simple I dont think he will be here after the deadline.

[Nodack]

Your right, the coach should be putting our big center on their big centers instead of Amare. I'm having a brain fart though. Which player on the Suns is our big center instead of Amare?

[Wormwood]

Skinner's 6-9, 260 lbs, but he jumps like a small forward. He's more capable of holding his position on the low block than Amare though. Against San Antonio, SKinner needs at least 20 mpg beating the hell out of Duncan. No cheap shots, just solid, physical defense to wear him down and make it harder for him to make shots late in the 4th when Amare is stuck guarding him again.

[jed]

I honestly only think the reason Banks is being played is to be showcased for the trade dead line. Plain and simple I dont think he will be here after the deadline.

I think you're dead-on. Wait and watch.

[sehan]

Skinner's 6-9, 260 lbs, but he jumps like a small forward. He's more capable of holding his position on the low block than Amare though. Against San Antonio, SKinner needs at least 20 mpg beating the hell out of Duncan. No cheap shots, just solid, physical defense to wear him down and make it harder for him to make shots late in the 4th when Amare is stuck guarding him again.

What do you mean, I want all the cheap shots. :)

[desertcoast]

I honestly only think the reason Banks is being played is to be showcased for the trade dead line. Plain and simple I dont think he will be here after the deadline.

I think you're dead-on. Wait and watch.

Agree......

[Xcon]

Your right, the coach should be putting our big center on their big centers instead of Amare. I'm having a brain fart though. Which player on the Suns is our big center instead of Amare?

Oops, my bad. I thought we had brought in this guy named Brian Skinner. Guess I'm wrong.

[misteradiant]

you guys are wrong about a banks trade. kerr has said we are sticking with what we've got and i bet he had a hand in getting banks more playing time. it is obvious that the coaches - humphries specifically - have been working with marcus to rid him of some of his bad habits. now that he is looking better on the floor, he's getting minutes. i wouldn't trade him with the way he's been playing lately and i don't think it will happen regardless. we're sticking with our crew. watch.

[JustWinBaby]

you guys are wrong about a banks trade. kerr has said we are sticking with what we've got and i bet he had a hand in getting banks more playing time. it is obvious that the coaches - humphries specifically - have been working with marcus to rid him of some of his bad habits. now that he is looking better on the floor, he's getting minutes. i wouldn't trade him with the way he's been playing lately and i don't think it will happen regardless. we're sticking with our crew. watch.


I hope you are correct.

However, D'Antoni brought up the issue of size in his post game interview Monday night. I really think that could be an issue with Banks, he just is not very tall and we already lack size. That said I would still like to see him get playing time against bigger opposing guards. His real value if he cannot run the point though is to pester the smaller guards. When we really gave him no chance to play last year that was really discouraging for a lot of reasons, but the main thing that discouraged me was that I thought he could have given Tony Parker fits. That could have let Marion do his thing thus helping the overall team. The next couple of Months just became more interesting. I hope he continues to get a shot a PT and performs well.

[jed]

you guys are wrong about a banks trade. kerr has said we are sticking with what we've got and i bet he had a hand in getting banks more playing time. it is obvious that the coaches - humphries specifically - have been working with marcus to rid him of some of his bad habits. now that he is looking better on the floor, he's getting minutes. i wouldn't trade him with the way he's been playing lately and i don't think it will happen regardless. we're sticking with our crew. watch.

I don't buy it. How many teams claim they are not trading or making a coaching change right up to the point where they do?

I think the only thing it says it that the Suns won't make a trade for trading's sake. If they feel like they're better off making a move -- chemistry- or roster-wise -- you better believe it will happen.

[misteradiant]

guess we'll see who's got the true read on what's going on, jed. until then, i'll tolerate your differing point of view.

resisting the winky face.

[misteradiant]

That said...

sometimes there is nothing to say a beer at noon and a dream gone soon
a smile a voice a giggle a time
gone
and whats to come?
a place to be alone.

[SwingMan]

That said...

sometimes there is nothing to say a beer at noon and a dream gone soon
a smile a voice a giggle a time
gone
and whats to come?
a place to be alone.

Story of my life.

Suddenly, I'm craving a double bourbon.....

[sunsdotcom]

One point that has been made, is that some guys get criticism while other guys don't. I don't get a lot of this, but one thing for sure: Steve Nash is not getting some criticism he does deserve.

Specifically: his one-on-one defense has been bad, and it's a factor in the Suns' losing games.

i'm not gonna criticize nash on defense because i don't he can do better than what he is showing right now because he's slow and not physically gifted, unlike amare.

I can't get behind that one.

Either Nash is doing everything he can to help us win or he's not. Since a lot of his decision-making has been spotty this year -- as evidenced by his characteristic turnover numbers -- then I'm going to go ahead and say that he needs to button up as much as anyone else on the team.

I don't care what he's overcome. He's been called to play a certain role with us, and I expect him to fulfill that.

sure, criticize him on his "decision making", but not his defense. i don't see nash's defense as an issue, just like i'd never see it as one for Larry bird.

[Ring_Wanted]

Does anyone really think that if Kerr has the chance to get rid of banks' contract, without totally allowing the other GM rip him, he won't do it?

I wonder how people would react if, given the Hawks' record, Kerr gave up their pick to unload Banks while getting back close to nothing..

[desertcoast]

Does anyone really think that if Kerr has the chance to get rid of banks' contract, without totally allowing the other GM rip him, he won't do it?
I wonder how people would react if, given the Hawks' record, Kerr gave up their pick to unload Banks while getting back close to nothing..

I doesn't have to be either/or.

I'm sure Kerr and D'Antoni are happy that Banks is contributing.
But looking at the roster, that doesn't change the fact that he is the most likely to be traded if a deal were possible ( Diaw's right there, but that salary :cry: )

Like most here, I think the coaching staff is cautiously optimistic about Banks' recent spike. What will come first: A long enough stretch of meaningful contribution to accurately asses his worth, or a trade that we can't pass up while his stock is reasonably high?

[ShelC]

I honestly only think the reason Banks is being played is to be showcased for the trade dead line. Plain and simple I dont think he will be here after the deadline.

That had occurred to me as well. But at the same time, if he has turned the corner and is cutting down on pounding the ball, improved his shotmaking, defense and decision making, would we really want to get rid of him? Especially if we might be seeing a TP, BDavis, Paul, Terry in the playoffs where he could come in handy?

What will come first: A long enough stretch of meaningful contribution to accurately asses his worth, or a trade that we can't pass up while his stock is reasonably high?

That is the trick...if we were to trade him, wouldnt we almost have to look to get back a PG that we realyl think could contribute? You cant really trade him for an expiring contract that wont play cuz youre just losing guard depth, which isnt that great to begin with. The best trade for us (if we are intent on taking advantage of Banks' recent good play) might indeed be Cassell for Banks, Pike and Tucker, or something to that effect. We get a veteran playmaker able to knock down a shot, and scratch his 6.7 off the books at the end of the year.

[jed]

guess we'll see who's got the true read on what's going on, jed. until then, i'll tolerate your differing point of view.

resisting the winky face.

Chances are, nothing will happen. I firmly believe that. But I don't think there's any way we're avoiding calls from other teams. In fact, we may even be placing a few.