Monday's News: Coach can't point, chemistry sucks while team is book illiterate

[SwingMan]

Suns searching for chemistry (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0106suns.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/pics/0106sunscov.jpg
Amaré Stoudemire was visibly frustrated after Saturday's loss and missed Sunday's practice. GM Steve Kerr says they'll talk about it.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 6, 2008 09:43 PM

It is alarming when Suns center Amaré Stoudemire sends a morning text message that he will not be coming to practice a day after showing frustration in a loss in which he did not shoot in the third quarter and nearly went the final six minutes without a shot until a last-second 3-point try.

It is more alarming that Stoudemire's absence is not even the biggest issue for a 23-10 team enjoying itself about as much as the New York Knicks are these days.

The Suns are 1-6 against the West's current playoff seeds, with another one, Denver, visiting tonight. Stoudemire is expected back Monday from what the team called an absence for "personal reasons." Word around practice was that he could not make it to the 45-minute practice because his two kids were sick.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

He was sick about Saturday's 118-113 loss to New Orleans. After the game, he paused for words, rubbed his head, punched his palm and said, "We've got to all get on the same page."

Suns General Manager Steve Kerr said Stoudemire had an excuse for Sunday's absence. Kerr did not go into more detail, saying, "We're going to handle it internally."

Guard Raja Bell also missed Sunday's practice but was asked to do so to recuperate from the flu that sent him home after playing 2:36 on Saturday.

What ails Phoenix is harder to pinpoint.

"I can't put my finger on it right now but, for whatever reason we aren't as good as we were the last couple, three years," said Suns coach Mike D'Antoni, who met with Stoudemire's fellow co-captains, Steve Nash and Shawn Marion, individually on Sunday. "We're kind of wobbling. We've got to find some answers."

The Suns have had defensive and rebounding issues in this era. A lack of chemistry seems to be at the heart of this team's issues. It has never been "peaches and cream," as ex-Suns guard Joe Johnson once put it, but it rarely looks like they enjoy each other's triumphs.

On Saturday, guard Leandro Barbosa played volleyball with a loose ball the length of the floor, hustling to keep it alive until it went out of bounds off New Orleans. Barbosa's momentum carried him off the court with only Marion near him. The crowd roared with approval. Marion turned and walked away.

At another point, Marion posted up a guard when Barbosa waved him out of the area in a move you could not fathom him doing two years ago. Barbosa drove and missed.

The Suns are also quick to look disgruntled with each other when things go amiss. That includes Nash, who may be tired of juggling agendas.

Nash said he may be oblivious to the finger-pointing to a fault but called it a "losing fallacy."

"If that stuff is going on, it needs to be stopped or else we can kiss it goodbye, because you can't win at this level if you don't have great chemistry and you don't pull for each other," Nash said. "If you're worried about your shots or about yourself or making excuses and pointing fingers at other players, that's for losers. We've been a winning ball club here, and if we want to take that next step, that's going to be a big part of our character."

As for Saturday, D'Antoni said Phoenix "probably should've tried" going to Stoudemire more in crunch time and that he would have played Brian Skinner more. Phoenix is 14-2 when Stoudemire takes at least 14 shots and 12-0 when he has 20 points and 10 rebounds.
Swing's Note: Hindsight doesn't help, dummy. Still wonder why chemistry's in the shitter????? Can you "put your finger" on it NOW????? :roll:

D'Antoni did not rule out a starting lineup change but will go "soul-searching" first.

"There's a sense of urgency to get this win," forward Grant Hill said of Monday night's game.

Monday's game

Nuggets at Suns

When: 7 p.m.
Where: US Airways Center.
TV/radio: FSNAZ/KTAR-AM (620).

Denver update: The Nuggets (21-12) won their third game in a row Sunday at home with Allen Iverson's big night against his former team, Philadelphia. Iverson and Carmelo Anthony form the NBA's highest-scoring duo. This is Denver's first game against the Suns after going 1-2 in last season's series.

[ShelC]

Word around practice was that he could not make it to the 45-minute practice because his two kids were sick.

5 minutes stretching, 5 minutes getting warmed up with some shots, 15 minutes going over what went wrong in the NO game, 15 minutes preparing for the Nuggets, 5 minutes of some more shooting....

Maybe thats why we cant get a stop to save our lives. I dont think we need a 3hr practice like Larry Brown and Riles like to run, but 45 minutes? What are u really doing in 45 minutes. By the time they break a sweat, practice is over. We should spend 90 minutes going over 4on4 shell, help and recover, pick and roll defense, blocking out, and fronting the cutter. Christ almighty....


At another point, Marion posted up a guard when Barbosa waved him out of the area in a move you could not fathom him doing two years ago. Barbosa drove and missed.

Talk about the lesser of two evils. If its one thing worse than an out of control Barbs barreling down the lane and missing a layup, its Shawn posting up.

And "losing fallacy"? Thats why i get when i see Amare relegated to setting screens down the stretch.

[SpecialSauce]

I still think our best move at this point is to trade rather Boris + LB in a package, or trade Marion. We're not going anywhere with this current lineup.

[JustWinBaby]

LB is fun to watch and can score points in bunches.

However, other than the shot he made against the Bulls last season to win a game, I really have seen him as more of a liability going down the stretch than a strength. Amare not getting a shot in the 3rd and basically only one in his scoring zone going down the stretch is just absurd.

With Raja not available I would rather see Grant at the two at winning time. I have said this before, LB really cannot be on the court at winning time.

If I am correct that was the our first loss while leading at the beginning of the
4th quarter.

Even tho LB takes poor shots he seems like he is well liked by everyone. I can't see him being the chemistry problem, shot selection at times problem, yes. I can see Shawn, Bell or Boris being the problem. Shawn and Raja to appear to be easily upset. Boris just need a heart beat.

If it happens to be Amare, trade everyone that has a problem with him immediately.

Man I wish I were a fly on the wall.

[Shabazz]

I'm a big Barbosa fan, but I think he needs to exhibit a little more patience on the wing. I've noticed a lot of plays this year where the ball is swung around the perimeter to Barbs and Amare moves from the weak side to the strong side to post up, but before he ever gets a chance to establish position Barbosa has swung it back to the top of the key. D'Antoni obviously stresses ball movement and players are concerned with being "ball stoppers," but if you see your big man coming to post up, wait a freakin extra second or two until he gets position and if he gets it, make the GD entry pass.

[desertcoast]

"I can't put my finger on it right now but, for whatever reason we aren't as good as we were the last couple, three years," said Suns coach Mike D'Antoni,

That's a troubling quote from D'Antoni.

It's not the fact that he's confirming this.
It's the fact that he's the coach...and he can't put a finger on it....


( never mind the wording that implies as much urgency as me saying
"this season of Lost just isn't as good as last season..and I just can't put my finger on it :? )

[JustWinBaby]

I still think our best move at this point is to trade rather Boris + LB in a package, or trade Marion. We're not going anywhere with this current lineup.

I have been saying that for Months but everyone has man love for LB. They really have convinced themselves that we were good when Boris replaced Amare in 05/06. They also think Marion is necessary for this team to play the way we play.

Unfortunately we are stuck with Boris and his $45 MIL.

However Marion and LB could bring something back real nice.

I wish we could stand pat because I really don't dislike any of our players. However it is obvious something is wrong and the only fix could be a change of personell. It sucks but it happens.

[EDC]

I'm a big Barbosa fan, but I think he needs to exhibit a little more patience on the wing. I've noticed a lot of plays this year where the ball is swung around the perimeter to Barbs and Amare moves from the weak side to the strong side to post up, but before he ever gets a chance to establish position Barbosa has swung it back to the top of the key. D'Antoni obviously stresses ball movement and players are concerned with being "ball stoppers," but if you see your big man coming to post up, wait a freakin extra second or two until he gets position and if he gets it, make the GD entry pass.

Yeah, I see this happen a lot. I've seen most of our guards actually pass it around the top before Amare gets there. I still can't get over the 45 minute practice. There is definitely a reason why our defense never seems to improve from game to game :) Does anyone know how long other teams practice on off days? Guess the really short practices could be a norm. I'm not sure.

[AlanS]

On Saturday, guard Leandro Barbosa played volleyball with a loose ball the length of the floor, hustling to keep it alive until it went out of bounds off New Orleans. Barbosa's momentum carried him off the court with only Marion near him. The crowd roared with approval. Marion turned and walked away.

At another point, Marion posted up a guard when Barbosa waved him out of the area in a move you could not fathom him doing two years ago. Barbosa drove and missed.

Hah, Barbosa was right to wave Shawn off. Shawn has NO post-up game, period, it would have resulted in a missed shot for sure.

But here's something I recall, I don't know if it was this game or not, but it happened this week. LB and Shawn had a two-on-one break going. Shawn was at the left of the lane, Barbosa was coming up the right side, and a defender was trying to stop LB from getting to the hoop.

Instead of passing the ball to Shawn, Barbosa attacked the basket, almost drawing a charge, or, getting his shot blocked by the taller defender. A foul call on the defensive player bailed Barbosa out.

As the team lined up for the foul shots, it just seemed to me that Shawn had a... well... unexcited, resigned look on his face. If Shawn was indeed 'angered' about that play, I really can't say I blame him. Guys should share the ball in a way that plays to there fellow players' strengths... Barbosa does not always do that.

[AlanS]

I still can't get over the 45 minute practice. There is definitely a reason why our defense never seems to improve from game to game :) Does anyone know how long other teams practice on off days? Guess the really short practices could be a norm. I'm not sure.

From all indications, the Suns brief practices are unusual by league standards. Lots of Suns players have said it, including Grant Hill. The stated reason for the brief practices is that it means less wear and tear on the players, enabling them to do more minutes in real games.

And yeah - I mentioned in another post, i think the brief practices ARE a problem when it comes to working on team defense. Maybe the coaches will do something about that, but I doubt it.

[muchmirth]

i remember that play clearly, barbosa should have passed it. it was a no brainer.

[FurlanFufi]

My 2 cents on post game notes:

1 - Marion is OBVIOUSLY the problem. Al the talk of "my trade request is gone, and I'm a team player" vanished when his numbers started to drop (and with that, a chance for a monster contract next year). And they didn't drop just because he's not giving 100%, it's because we now have another smilar threat from inside- Grant Hill. It's no coincidence that we're shooting and making less 3 pointers.
I love Marion but he rarely puts himself in a good position (his post up try was laughable) and do not move on offense like past years.

2 - I love Barbs, and I don't blame him for doing what he is doing. Because you have to TELL HIM to do what you want. If they want him to pass back down low to Amare, they have to ask him, and I would bet a month's salary that the told him to swing the ball to the top again when the post up play don't work.

3- We need shooters. 35% will not work for a team that wants to play a fast paced game.
We have the mid range game right now, can't we find ANYBODY who could shoot and get some minutes, and defend a little?

4 D'antoni strategy to put the best guys on the court and let them figure it out will not work with this year team. More guys that does the same thing (Marion, Diaw, Hill), our shooters are not shooting well, they don't love each other anymore, and the championship is not their main focus ( and if they wait to turn on the motors on the playoffs, could be very late).

[Superbone]

i remember that play clearly, barbosa should have passed it. it was a no brainer.

Wasn't it the same play Reggie Miller made a big deal about the missing assist on TNT?

Some have said he didn't have a proper passing angle but I disagree. He could have and should have made that pass. And I have noticed that about Barbosa in the past. He is reluctant to give up the ball on a 2 on 1.

[INFORMER]

I found D'Antoni's comments in the above article slightly disturbing. He seems unconfident, somewhat pressing, and almost clueless. It is fine to acknowledge the team needs work, but his statements seem a little over the top.

The best thing D'Antoni can do right now is take his team back to the basics: not the basics of his system, but the basics of basketball--- period. We know the Suns need to win it all. The players do, the media does, the city does, etc. It is cliched, but it is time to take one game at a time, or maybe, more accurately, one problem at a time.

D'Antoni needs to loosen up. His rhetoric needs to change. The suns aren't where they need to be? Fine. Concede that fact and start talking about spending the rest of the season working to get there. Put Banks and Skinner in the rotation permanently. Start Barbosa. I truly think this will put the players at ease.

It feels like all D'Antoni is saying is, "Hey guys, this is the level we need to be at, rise up to it," instead of saying "Hey guys, this is the level we need to be at, and here's how we're going to get there." COACH. Work with the players, with a more hands-on approach. D'Antoni's laissez-faire approach was what the doctor ordered for awhile, but now we need to see some versatility on his part.

[phnart]

as someone who has watched Shawn his entire career, I definitely feel like he is not in the same type of mindset this year as in previous years. It is my gut feeling that he mailing it in this season and only waiting for opportunities to make himself look like a max player. Unfortunately, he is not smart enough to realize that his success is predicated on him going 100% all the time and not just when he feels like it.

This is Amare's team. They need to realize that and let him create opportunities for other guys on the team.

And Diaw.....he may be a smart basketball player, but his "hustle when I feel like it" approach makes me want to puke. The Suns could give me half of his 9 mil a season and I would play harder than he would...hell, I'd even take the occasional charge.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

As for Saturday, D'Antoni said Phoenix "probably should've tried" going to Stoudemire more in crunch time and that he would have played Brian Skinner more. Phoenix is 14-2 when Stoudemire takes at least 14 shots and 12-0 when he has 20 points and 10 rebounds.[/B]
Swing's Note: Hindsight doesn't help, dummy. Still wonder why chemistry's in the shitter????? Can you "put your finger" on it NOW????? :roll:

D'Antoni did not rule out a starting lineup change but will go "soul-searching" first.

Translation: I've lost the belief of the team and I don't know wtf to do...meaning...fire me please, before I flick this up more! Time to flush...bring on Jeff...maybe a little arrogant, but I'd take somebody that will try some different tactics right now vs. sitting here with our thumb up our asses...hmmm, maybe he should play the big boys some more...didn't he fraggin' say he was going to try that a fraggin' week ago...and then we get 7 minutes out of Skinner. He's lost the team and he's scared...meaning he can't do the job anymore. Its time...flush.

VT

[desertcoast]

Instead of passing the ball to Shawn, Barbosa attacked the basket, almost drawing a charge, or, getting his shot blocked by the taller defender. A foul call on the defensive player bailed Barbosa out.

As the team lined up for the foul shots, it just seemed to me that Shawn had a... well... unexcited, resigned look on his face. If Shawn was indeed 'angered' about that play,

i rewound that play about 3 times watching Marions reaction, and he was clearly pissed...
pounded his fists and shoulders as he watched Barbs botch the lay-in. Those kinds of reactions were once kept inside, but now they are wearing them pretty outwardly.

[Ring_Wanted]

Whatever are Mike D's faults or shortcomings, who is out there to take his job? Firing a coach in the middle of a season can work for some teams, but not for those who are competing for a title, specially seeing the lack of quality replacements currently available.

Mike D has to adapt his style to the new personnel, taking advantage of their strenghts. Give a week off to Bell, play Banks, Tucker or DJ. More minutes to Skinner, a couple of DNP coach decision in a row for Diaw when his focus and agressiveness are not there.. There are things he can do. Hoping everything will work out by itself is not an option, but firing the coach, I think it basically gets us done for the season, and probably for the Nash era.


Now, call me names and crucify me, but do you know what trade would I do right now? Sheed for Marion.

[JustWinBaby]

{Now, call me names and crucify me, but do you know what trade would I do right now? Sheed for Marion.}

I have no idea why the Pistons would do that.

I have another idea on who the problem is, a combination of Nash/D'Antoni.

It seems to me that the only player Coach D converses with in a civil manner during a game is Nash. If he has a turnover or misses a defensive assignment it appears that Coach D and Nash talk it over and Nash is told to keep doing what he is doing, after all you are the MVP. When STAT makes a mistake no guidance seems to be given, rather his name comes out in the press the next day that he needs to play harder and he is a horrible defender, same with Shawn. At the same time Nash never calls out his buddies in the backcourt, ever.

I really don't see the Amare/Marion duo as having chemistry prolbems. Neither are or have been great passers, they both are great finishers. However this year they have passed the ball to each other far more than in years past. In addition Raja can get beat and miss shots but he always is left off the hook becuase he is injured and we need him becuase he is our heart and soul. I think that really grates on Shawn, after all he is our longest tenured player and we have all watched him play as hard as any player to ever play this game, albeit not this year.

Really if you think of it other than Boris, Amare and Shawn have taken the brunt of the criticism for this clubs failures while others (Nash, LB, Raja and Hill) are generally left off the hook becuase they carry the titles of MVP, 6th man of the year, 1st team all defense and former 7 time all star). They carry those titles while Amare and Shawn are playing out of position and generally undersized against their opponents and left to clean up their mess.

On a positive note it is still early and the trade deadline has not passed. We still have a lot of talent and have the time to get it working together or make a move to change the mix.

[Mori_Chu]

What depresses me is that I'm reading this board and 10 different people have 10 different reasons for why we're losing. And they're all true.

We need some work. (More than 45 minutes' worth...)

[JustWinBaby]

Another Question:

Why did Coach D sit with Nash and Shawn and Kerr is going to sit down with Amare?

[Ring_Wanted]

It's true Bell gets some kind of pass because his injuries, despite his poor shooting and the fact that his defense is not the same.

Hill, on the other hand, has been given critics here for all the 3s he was shooting in the first games.

Barbosa's shooting selection and 3pt slump have been plenty pointed too.

Nash, you can say he's the darling here, but after all he has done, and his injuries, I'd give him that pass if his production wasn't the same. Wait. It is.

This board can be a lot of things, but not a place where blid homers pat themselves in the back and are unaware of the problems the team has.

If Marion, Amare, Diaw, Banks or Mike D get more fire than others, I think it's because they deserve it more. Every player has flaws in his game, but lack of energy is one of the things I can't forgive, be it reg season against Minnesotta or a playoff game. We all know Nash is a bad defensive player, or that Hill is not a 3pt shooter. The reason we don't kill them is because they do the things they are supposed to do.

When Amare or Marion play without focus, what do they bring to the table? In my opinion, that's the key difference between a polished bball player and an athlete who plays hoops and is still learning the game. Then, you have Diaw, who has so little passion most of the times, that offsets all his talent and bball IQ.

To me, those conducts are the most frustating ones, specially when this year we are not beating teams by just steping on the court, whatever is the reason. Hence, the numerous critics those guys get, obviously making other guys look very favored in that regard. At least, that's my opinion.

[jed]

Who knows who really is the chemistry issue. There is certainly evidence for it being Amare, Shawn or some combination thereof.

At this point, though, I don't care. I'd move them both for young talents at the two spots with great attitudes. Iguodala and Horford would do just fine by me, thank you.

Then, I'd start thinking about a coaching change.

[CharlesV]

Maybe thats why we cant get a stop to save our lives. I dont think we need a 3hr practice like Larry Brown and Riles like to run, but 45 minutes?

Why not? Both those coaches have taken their teams on title runs.

[ShelC]

Great post Ring. Very well illustrated.

Why did Coach D sit with Nash and Shawn and Kerr is going to sit down with Amare?

Because theyre team captains who showed up for practice. Amare skipped practice, thats something management deals with. It cant be glossed over. Im sure MikeD will meet with Amare at some point, maybe with Kerr there as well.

Sheed for Marion? We tried it over the summer. The suns, MikeD probably, really likes Sheed and his skillset on both ends. The pistons wont do it tho.

The one deal i would look at is Shawn for TayPrince and change. I dont know why the Pistons would do any kind of deal givne the role theyre on and the chemistry theyve built up, but thats one i'd inquire about for us and they may listen. Tay, for whatever reason, has struggled this year shooting the ball. I've always loved Tays game (not that i dislike Shawns) and think he'd be the ideal 3 in this system given his offensive and defensive capabilities. The problem is what we do at the 4 spot. Do we start Boris? Do we start Skinner and slide Amare back to the 4, start Tay and bring Grant off the bench with Boris and Barbs? IIRC, the pistons spoke with us about a possible deal after last season, but we made such a ridiculous offer they had no choice but to say "no thanks".

Regarding Nash, ive said it before and ill say it again. He and MikeD want to play the team game in a superstar league. MikeD was a great PG, Stevies a 2time MVP and they share the same vision and mindset. Stevies given everything to this franchise, but he may have to take a step back and look at things from a different perspective. At this point, its probably in his best interest, and MikeDs, to get Amare the ball and truly make him the focal point of the offense. We need to make the transition. Its not about catering to a selfish player. Its not about caving into Amares demands. ITs about whats best for the team and whats going to make us the most successful and dangerous team.

[jed]

I don't know, Shel. I don't think we can sugarcoat Nash's role in all this anymore, either.

He's the one making the decisions on the floor, and when the ball isn't going inside to Amare regularly, then he's making bad ones. It's not about team game vs. superstar game. It's about smart vs. stupid.

One way yields wins. The other yields disappointment. Steve needs to start choosing the right one consistently.

[INFORMER]

Whatever are Mike D's faults or shortcomings, who is out there to take his job? Firing a coach in the middle of a season can work for some teams, but not for those who are competing for a title, specially seeing the lack of quality replacements currently available.

Agreed.

[INFORMER]

Who knows who really is the chemistry issue. There is certainly evidence for it being Amare, Shawn or some combination thereof.

At this point, though, I don't care. I'd move them both for young talents at the two spots with great attitudes. Iguodala and Horford would do just fine by me, thank you.

Then, I'd start thinking about a coaching change.

:shock:

BTW: The Pistons aren't dealing anyone in their starting line-up. Let us proceed...

[ShelC]

It's not about team game vs. superstar game. It's about smart vs. stupid.

For Stevie it is about that tho, It comes from his mindset of being the ultimate team guy and wanting to be the best teammate to everyone. He needs to get over that, cuz if hes stubborn enough to look amare off to play his team game then hes being the selfish one anf not putting the team first. Ironic huh?

[jed]

Who knows who really is the chemistry issue. There is certainly evidence for it being Amare, Shawn or some combination thereof.

At this point, though, I don't care. I'd move them both for young talents at the two spots with great attitudes. Iguodala and Horford would do just fine by me, thank you.

Then, I'd start thinking about a coaching change.

:shock:

BTW: The Pistons aren't dealing anyone in their starting line-up. Let us proceed...

Yeah -- maybe a bit much. But I guess I don't care. My attitude is that if it doesn't work anymore or we're going to tweak the life out of the roster/system, then blow the whole damn thing up.

[JustWinBaby]

Nash is an amazing basketball player but he ain't perfect.

He has the same number of NBA Titles as do Amare - Shawn and D'Antoni.

As far as Amare not showing up for practice, for whatever reason, and D'Antoni not the one to meet with him is extremely lame. Amare is one of the 3 Captains on this team. I hope Amare requested the meeting with Kerr. I hope he asks some pretty tough questions like:

1. What color dress should I buy Doris For the next Game.
2. Is Nash and everyone else in this to make everyone happy or Win a Championship.
3. Would you please get Shawn and I some fucking help in the Paint.
4. Would you please have Coach D sit LB for god's sake in the last 3 minutes even if we are down to Piatkowski.
5. Do you really think it helps when I score 20 pts, grab 10 rebounds, get 5 blocked shots and get the opposing big men in foul trouble. If you don't trade my ass immediately.
6. If Doris's dress does not get in the way would you please ask her to pass to me and Shawn in the paint rather than making every pass for a 3 point opportunity.
7. If you haven't noticed me, The Matrix and Skinner work pretty well together - will you talk to that thick headed Italian and try to get us on the court more together.

[EDC]

Really if you think of it other than Boris, Amare and Shawn have taken the brunt of the criticism for this clubs failures while others (Nash, LB, Raja and Hill) are generally left off the hook becuase they carry the titles of MVP, 6th man of the year, 1st team all defense and former 7 time all star). They carry those titles while Amare and Shawn are playing out of position and generally undersized against their opponents and left to clean up their mess.


That is a good take on the situation. We never hear the coach or media call out the guards for letting their guys blow right by them. Then when the big man moves over a pass is made to his man and he scores. The next day we hear how bad the big mans defense was. Our perimeter defense is pretty bad. Guards go right around us all the time.

Everyone on the team can play better defense. It is just odd that we blame only one group of players for this. It really is like this team just does not have a coach. We just have someone that spews out catch phrases during and after the game.

Another instance where the bigs are solely blamed is rebounding. The guards just leak and don't try for the boards most of the time. Once again at times the bigs do need to do a better job at boxing out. The guards also have to help specially against those good rebounding teams.

Bell has just been plain horrible. Anytime he is we just hear the "heart and soul" comment. Apparently he isn't too injured to play. We also do not call out Nash. The reason is there is this perception that they always gives 100% so regardless of how they play they tried. I think that is a bit simplified. Bell doesn't have to do anything on the offensive end. He basically stands at the 3 point line waiting for a pass. Hard to tell if he is giving 100% while doing that.

Now for Nash it is easy to tell when he isn't giving it 100%. The pick and roll offense becomes easy to guard when one of the 2 players isn't being aggressive. Sometimes this is definitely Amare but sometimes it is also Nash. When Nash does not attack off of those screens it is much easier for the defense to sag back and prevent the pass. There have been plenty of times when Nash comes off of the screen without thinking to attack to basket.

I really like Nash and I'm a big Amare fan. If everyone gives Nash all the credit when we win then he should also get some of the blame when we lose.

[jed]

It's not about team game vs. superstar game. It's about smart vs. stupid.

For Stevie it is about that tho, It comes from his mindset of being the ultimate team guy and wanting to be the best teammate to everyone. He needs to get over that, cuz if hes stubborn enough to look amare off to play his team game then hes being the selfish one anf not putting the team first. Ironic huh?

You're right. And truth be known, it's admirable in a lot of ways -- all, except, the way that leads to harmony and wins.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Regarding Nash, ive said it before and ill say it again. He and MikeD want to play the team game in a superstar league. MikeD was a great PG, Stevies a 2time MVP and they share the same vision and mindset. Stevies given everything to this franchise, but he may have to take a step back and look at things from a different perspective. At this point, its probably in his best interest, and MikeDs, to get Amare the ball and truly make him the focal point of the offense. We need to make the transition. Its not about catering to a selfish player. Its not about caving into Amares demands. ITs about whats best for the team and whats going to make us the most successful and dangerous team.

Nash and Coach D have big egos...We are losing to good teams playing this perimeter ball...We are a better team when Amare is the 1 option on offense...I thought it was about winning...There is a power struggle going on and I'm pulling for the #1 option that makes the Suns the best team...I hope Kerr makes D'Antoni and Nash change so that we can make a real run at a ring.

[Dammit]

I don't blame Amare for getting pissed. He's our best and most consitently effective scoring weapon. Not going to him for that long of a stretch is ridiculous. Could any of you imagine not going to Barkley for that period of time in 1993? Of course not.

I'm a little disappointed in Nash right now. He should know to get Amare involved. Really makes me wonder if there's a rift there. Especially now with his comments about people complaining about their shot attempts. Normally I would agree and I hate hearing players complain about not getting touches but... in this case Amare is right. When he gets touches he delivers. Give him the god damn ball already.

I lose more faith in our coaching staff daily. This article isn't helping any.

Edit: I'll add one more thing. Amare needs to do a better job of establishing position and DEMANDING the ball during the game instead of complaining about it afterwards. He gets a little lacksidasical out there sometimes when things aren't going his way.

[EDC]

What is interesting is I have never seen Amare actually be quoted saying anything about needing more touches. He always has comments about how the team as a whole needs to play better or that he himself needs to step it up. Amare actually seems to stay completely out of the drama in the media. Where Nash rises up to these loaded questions about the internal problems of the team. Honestly who else comments on these things to the public besides Coach D and Nash. They are the only ones that I can remember addressing the idea of internal drama.

[jed]

Y'know -- I think you guys are onto something with the team ball in a superstar league take. But I have to wonder. Are Nash and Coach too dense to realize that some of our players just arent as good as others?

I like it just as much as anyone else when Bell is hitting his shots or Barbosa is running the other team ragged. But neither one hits as regularly -- often with a foul shot to follow -- as Amare.

Everyone can still be involved, but the ball needs to go inside first. Then the open outside shots will come. Maybe some don't get that -- Nash included. Maybe we are just failing to execute. Either way, the fact that it is still a glaring problem doesn't reflect well on coach.

[Mori_Chu]

You know we've hit dark times when people start semi-calling-out Nash. Steve Nash is not even close to being the problem with this team. He is the only reason we are even a playoff team. Look, when Amare is open, Nash will give him the ball. I trust in Nash to do this, and from the games I have watched, he has done this.

The problem comes when Amare is on the floor without Nash. LB and the other ballhandlers don't look for Amare nearly as much; he's next to useless out there with them. To me that is why his FGA are not what they should be.

Get LB, Diaw, Hill to look for Amare and we will have solved a lot of our offensive problems.

[jed]

You know we've hit dark times when people start semi-calling-out Nash. Steve Nash is not even close to being the problem with this team. He is the only reason we are even a playoff team. Look, when Amare is open, Nash will give him the ball. I trust in Nash to do this, and from the games I have watched, he has done this.

The problem comes when Amare is on the floor without Nash. LB and the other ballhandlers don't look for Amare nearly as much; he's next to useless out there with them. To me that is why his FGA are not what they should be.

Get LB, Diaw, Hill to look for Amare and we will have solved a lot of our offensive problems.

I'm calling out everyone. It's time to do so.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

You know we've hit dark times when people start semi-calling-out Nash. Steve Nash is not even close to being the problem with this team. He is the only reason we are even a playoff team. Look, when Amare is open, Nash will give him the ball. I trust in Nash to do this, and from the games I have watched, he has done this.

The problem comes when Amare is on the floor without Nash. LB and the other ballhandlers don't look for Amare nearly as much; he's next to useless out there with them. To me that is why his FGA are not what they should be.

Get LB, Diaw, Hill to look for Amare and we will have solved a lot of our offensive problems.

I'm calling out everyone. It's time to do so.


ME 2

[JustWinBaby]

Really if you think of it other than Boris, Amare and Shawn have taken the brunt of the criticism for this clubs failures while others (Nash, LB, Raja and Hill) are generally left off the hook becuase they carry the titles of MVP, 6th man of the year, 1st team all defense and former 7 time all star). They carry those titles while Amare and Shawn are playing out of position and generally undersized against their opponents and left to clean up their mess.


That is a good take on the situation. We never hear the coach or media call out the guards for letting their guys blow right by them. Then when the big man moves over a pass is made to his man and he scores. The next day we hear how bad the big mans defense was. Our perimeter defense is pretty bad. Guards go right around us all the time.

Everyone on the team can play better defense. It is just odd that we blame only one group of players for this. It really is like this team just does not have a coach. We just have someone that spews out catch phrases during and after the game.

Another instance where the bigs are solely blamed is rebounding. The guards just leak and don't try for the boards most of the time. Once again at times the bigs do need to do a better job at boxing out. The guards also have to help specially against those good rebounding teams.

Bell has just been plain horrible. Anytime he is we just hear the "heart and soul" comment. Apparently he isn't too injured to play. We also do not call out Nash. The reason is there is this perception that they always gives 100% so regardless of how they play they tried. I think that is a bit simplified. Bell doesn't have to do anything on the offensive end. He basically stands at the 3 point line waiting for a pass. Hard to tell if he is giving 100% while doing that.

Now for Nash it is easy to tell when he isn't giving it 100%. The pick and roll offense becomes easy to guard when one of the 2 players isn't being aggressive. Sometimes this is definitely Amare but sometimes it is also Nash. When Nash does not attack off of those screens it is much easier for the defense to sag back and prevent the pass. There have been plenty of times when Nash comes off of the screen without thinking to attack to basket.

I really like Nash and I'm a big Amare fan. If everyone gives Nash all the credit when we win then he should also get some of the blame when we lose.

EDC

I think we are seeing it the same way. It is supposed to be a team game.

I think Amare sees it the same way unlike popular opinion.

[AmareIsGod]

Amaré rejoins Suns, to start tonight (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0107amare.html)
Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 7, 2008 12:14 PM

Suns center Amaré Stoudemire returned to his team today and the Suns tried to return to normalcy.

Stoudemire, who will start tonight's home game against Denver, maintained that his absence from Sunday's practice was because his son was ill. He had sent a text message to Suns head athletic trainer Aaron Nelson that he would not be coming, setting off speculation that Stoudemire was displeased with not getting shots in the third quarter and final six minutes of Saturday's loss.

"It's pretty simple," Stoudemire said. "My son caught a high temperature - a 103 temperature - and I wasn't able to make practice," said Stoudemire, who added that Amaré Jr.'s temperature was normal today.


"I hadn't talked to anybody about me not getting shots. I wasn't frustrated about shots. I was just more upset about the loss. That's about it."

Stoudemire had expressed general frustration after Saturday's loss about the Suns getting "on the same page" and D'Antoni acknowledged that Phoenix should have gone to Stoudemire more down the stretch. But Stoudemire said that was not an issue for being absent Sunday.

"There was nothing basketball there at all," said Stoudemire, breaking into an incredulous smile. "I don't know how it became basketball-related, probably because of the loss and guys were frustrated. It was strictly for the health of my son. That was the only reason. I could see why you may think it's basketball-related because it's a loss (and) we should have won and guys were upset about the loss."

Stoudemire met with the Suns brass before today's shootaround, which was business as usual in getting ready for tonight's game against Denver.

"We talked, just to make that he's cool and his kids were sick," D'Antoni said.

"Obviously, he probably should have made it (to practice) . . . . But he's fine. It's your kids. He's fine. Took care of it and it's not an issue. Whether he made a mistake or not, you can talk to him about it. He was genuinely concerned."

Suns General Manager Steve Kerr said how Stoudemire's absence was handled would be kept private.

"It's kind of the team's business and our business," Kerr said. "So we dealt with it this morning and we move forward now. I'm happy with the way we handled and the way Amaré responded and now we move on."

A day after pondering changes with his team, D'Antoni said Monday that there would be no moves.

Suns guard Raja Bell, who was asked to stay home Sunday after leaving Saturday's game early with the flu, was also at shootaround and was expected to start Monday night.

A four-win streak was wiped out with one loss and one practice absence, prompting discussion of chemistry concerns again.

"I don't really see a difference between this year and last year or the year before that," Stoudemire said. "We have good guys on the team so nobody's upset or complaining too much."

[Billyjoejimbob]

You know we've hit dark times when people start semi-calling-out Nash. Steve Nash is not even close to being the problem with this team. He is the only reason we are even a playoff team. Look, when Amare is open, Nash will give him the ball. I trust in Nash to do this, and from the games I have watched, he has done this.

The problem comes when Amare is on the floor without Nash. LB and the other ballhandlers don't look for Amare nearly as much; he's next to useless out there with them. To me that is why his FGA are not what they should be.

Get LB, Diaw, Hill to look for Amare and we will have solved a lot of our offensive problems.


I agree with this for the most part. I have seen Nash attempt to get Amare the ball a number of times and Amare is not in a good position to get the ball so Nash will go around again and set it back up to try and make a play. What I see most of the time with the other guys, LB especially, is Amare getting into position and them telegraphing what they are going to do and then waiting too long so the guy guarding them has time to keep them from making the pass. Then, if they do finally get him the ball there is like 5 seconds left on the shot clock. People have been saying this for a while, but I think there needs to be a couple of set plays that are run when Nash is not in the game. It seems that they run more of an offensive game plan when he's in there as opposed to set plays, and the other guys don't really know how to run it. So, when he comes out of the game, there should be some simple plays that they can run to get Amare the ball and play inside out basketball.

[EDC]

I am just really glad Amare isn't thin skinned. I wonder if he even reads the quotes that are said about him. His son was sick and he stayed home. Yet the coach and GM feel they need to make these weird comments to the press that make it sound like he did something wrong.

Kerr saying how we handled it will be kept private. Coach saying obviously he should have made it to practice. I think Amare can stay home a day to take care of his son if he thinks that is what he needs to do. We are talking about a 45 minute practice. Amare has been playing amazingly this past month.

It just really seems that the organization has a problem with Amare. No one else hints at these things besides the Coach, Nash, and Kerr. Amare always says the right things in his interviews. I just find it hard to believe that they can have a big problem with this situation.
The only thing that makes sense is that they do not believe Amare's kid was sick. It just seems really odd that they reacted the way they did.

[zara_drummer]

I think its more of a formality issue with HOW he went about letting the team know why he was staying home...

I'd probably get in trouble too if I texted a co-worker of mine that I wasn't coming into the office today...See what I mean?? A Nelson is the trainer...Amare doesnt answer to the trainer...he answers to Kerr and Mike D etc...

[Billyjoejimbob]

You know what? If Amare's kid really was sick, then good for him. His family should be more important than basketball practice. Maybe he should have sent a message to somebody other than the trainer, which is what I think Kerr might be implying when he was talking about the way he handled it, but other than that it doesn't sound like it was that big of a deal.

[EDC]

It shouldn't have been a big deal. I don't understand why the Coach and Kerr did not just say that it wasn't a big deal. Instead they kinda built it up. Even if he didn't have an excuse. It is one of those things that should be completely handled in house. Not bandied about in the media.

[Billyjoejimbob]

I don't think it was bandied about in the media. The media knew Amare wasn't at practice and when they asked Kerr about it he said it would be handled internally. When they asked Amare about it later he said his kid was sick and it wasn't because he was mad at the team. Afterwards Kerr still said he didn't want to talk about it and it was already dealt with. I think maybe because of the problems they are having right now many things are being read in to what is actually going on.

[Shabazz]

I am just really glad Amare isn't thin skinned. I wonder if he even reads the quotes that are said about him. His son was sick and he stayed home. Yet the coach and GM feel they need to make these weird comments to the press that make it sound like he did something wrong.

Kerr saying how we handled it will be kept private. Coach saying obviously he should have made it to practice. I think Amare can stay home a day to take care of his son if he thinks that is what he needs to do. We are talking about a 45 minute practice. Amare has been playing amazingly this past month.

It just really seems that the organization has a problem with Amare. No one else hints at these things besides the Coach, Nash, and Kerr. Amare always says the right things in his interviews. I just find it hard to believe that they can have a big problem with this situation.
The only thing that makes sense is that they do not believe Amare's kid was sick. It just seems really odd that they reacted the way they did.

Good post.

I think it was a matter of misinformation yesterday because Amare didn't get in touch with upper management directly and that led to speculation, which as we all know, tends to snowball around these parts.

Kerr's comments weren't that bad, but they should have been more along the lines of "His kid was sick, done and done. No biggie. Any one of us would have done the same thing." It would take a pretty twisted person to use an ill son as an excuse to miss work/practice if it wasn't really true.

Beyond that, I think Amare's got a great attitude. He's been taking a bit of a beating in the media over his defense, but instead of saying "I'm 6'10 250 guarding guys 40 pounds heavier, you do the math" a la Marion, he actually addresses his need to improve on that end. And even though he clearly didn't get enough shots against NO, his comments were more team oriented, as opposed to "we lost because I'm not involved enough." He may be thinking that, but he's got more tact than he's given credit for.

Bottom line: I think Amare wants to win and wants to put the team on his shoulders, unfortunately this approach is counterintuitive to the Suns' team-first philosophy, so he's stuck biting his lip a lot. Which to his credit, he's done.

[EDC]

Yeah, you are probably right BJB. I'm just in anti Coach D mode atm. Any quote I read from him just annoys me.

[SwingMan]

I think maybe because of the problems they are having right now many things are being read in to what is actually going on.

Word - by folks here as well as the media.

Calm down, people - Amare said it's cool, Kerr's happy, move on.....

[Billyjoejimbob]

Yeah, you are probably right. I'm just in anti Coach D mode atm. Any quote I read from him just annoys me.

I'm not real happy with him right now either. At least we can agree on that.

[misteradiant]

I don't think we can sugarcoat Nash's role in all this anymore...

He's the one making the decisions on the floor, and when the ball isn't going inside to Amare regularly, then he's making bad ones. It's not about team game vs. superstar game. It's about smart vs. stupid.

to quote me, "double you-oh-are-dee." i blame the loss to new orleans on nash.

besides this, he let two 3's be taken without even running at the shooter. he just stood there, let them spot up, count to five and shoot. i could have punched him both times.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

I don't think we can sugarcoat Nash's role in all this anymore...

He's the one making the decisions on the floor, and when the ball isn't going inside to Amare regularly, then he's making bad ones. It's not about team game vs. superstar game. It's about smart vs. stupid.

to quote me, "double you-oh-are-dee." i blame the loss to new orleans on nash.

besides this, he let two 3's be taken without even running at the shooter. he just stood there, let them spot up, count to five and shoot. i could have punched him both times.

True
and coach D well Nash is the coach

[misteradiant]

For Stevie it is about that tho, It comes from his mindset of being the ultimate team guy and wanting to be the best teammate to everyone. He needs to get over that, cuz if hes stubborn enough to look amare off to play his team game then hes being the selfish one anf not putting the team first. Ironic huh?

top 10 post from you, man.

spellcheck more often, though.

still no winky face.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

For Stevie it is about that tho, It comes from his mindset of being the ultimate team guy and wanting to be the best teammate to everyone. He needs to get over that, cuz if hes stubborn enough to look amare off to play his team game then hes being the selfish one anf not putting the team first. Ironic huh?

top 10 post from you, man.

spellcheck more often, though.

still no winky face.

Is this English 101? IT IS SHORTHAND

[Nodack]

I think maybe because of the problems they are having right now many things are being read in to what is actually going on.

Word - by folks here as well as the media.

Calm down, people - Amare said it's cool, Kerr's happy, move on.....

No kidding Swing. It wasn't cool losing to NO, but they are a good team and it was close. I don't doubt the Suns have their issues, but man reading this thread I have a hard time not filling a whole page of rolling eyes.

Do I have this correct?

LB sucks
Bell sucks
Marion sucks
Diaw sucks
Coach sucks
Nash is selfish
Amare went from trade him asap two weeks ago to being "The Guy".
Blowup the team?

A wise man in the entertainment business told me a long time ago that "You're only as good as your last performance".

:roll:

[OE]

This has been the best thread we've had in a while. It's been a pleasure to read.

I think some people just won't acknowledge that there are problems until someone in the organization says it's so. They've said it. Now we're all on the same page. We have problems.

I don't like that we're not considering a trade. To me it may indicate that we've tried to make a move but that no one wants our pieces. If we did trade Barbs, what would we need to get in return? A scorer and three-point shooter. So it's silly. He just needs to be coached. Marion, on the other hand, doesn't have the skills this team needs and is valuable in trade. Of course, he may opt out next season, and God knows Sarver loves pocket change.

I am pro-trade. We have way too much talent, but it's mismatched.

Also, has D'Antoni considered that perhaps it's his system that's destroyed chemistry? Superstars don't want to share the ball. Bench players want to play. Success has made these problems disappear to an extent, but, obviously, players have become less happy and that has a lot to do with both the system and the roster.

KG, Eddie House, a couple vets, and a lot of youngsters. How pumped that Celtics locker room must be in comparison.

[AlanS]

besides this, he (Nash) let two 3's be taken without even running at the shooter. he just stood there, let them spot up, count to five and shoot. i could have punched him both times.

Very good point, MR.

It just seems to me, a lot of people (maybe including the Suns players and coaches) are missing the point about why the Suns lost to NOH. The Suns scored 113 pts, and shot 53% from the field. Maybe Amare didn't get a lot of touches, but Nash was 9/14 from the field, LB was 11/19, Banks was 4/6. THIS WAS ONE OF THE SUNS' BEST SHOOTING GAMES OF THE SEASON!

The reason they lost this game was horrible defense. Jannero Pargo WENT OFF in this game, he shot 8/12 (66.6%) and scored 19 pts. Is Pargo that good? Yes... when he's being guarded by Steve Nash! And the Suns defense on the NOH high pick and roll wasn't just bad, it was shameful... the Hornets were able to get wide open looks for their shooters anytime they wanted.

The Suns are under-sized, so I can understand the rebounding problems. But the perimeter D was atrocious, and size was not the problem. It won't matter how many shots Amare gets if the Suns are going to be defenseless to stop the other team.

End of rant...

[EDC]

I've always thought Amare was "the guy" :)

I've also disliked Coach D for a long while. I felt like we succeeded in spite of him last season.

As for the others I really haven't commented too much.

[RDM2]

{Now, call me names and crucify me, but do you know what trade would I do right now? Sheed for Marion.}

I have no idea why the Pistons would do that.

I have another idea on who the problem is, a combination of Nash/D'Antoni.

It seems to me that the only player Coach D converses with in a civil manner during a game is Nash. If he has a turnover or misses a defensive assignment it appears that Coach D and Nash talk it over and Nash is told to keep doing what he is doing, after all you are the MVP. When STAT makes a mistake no guidance seems to be given, rather his name comes out in the press the next day that he needs to play harder and he is a horrible defender, same with Shawn. At the same time Nash never calls out his buddies in the backcourt, ever.

I really don't see the Amare/Marion duo as having chemistry prolbems. Neither are or have been great passers, they both are great finishers. However this year they have passed the ball to each other far more than in years past. In addition Raja can get beat and miss shots but he always is left off the hook becuase he is injured and we need him becuase he is our heart and soul. I think that really grates on Shawn, after all he is our longest tenured player and we have all watched him play as hard as any player to ever play this game, albeit not this year.

Really if you think of it other than Boris, Amare and Shawn have taken the brunt of the criticism for this clubs failures while others (Nash, LB, Raja and Hill) are generally left off the hook becuase they carry the titles of MVP, 6th man of the year, 1st team all defense and former 7 time all star). They carry those titles while Amare and Shawn are playing out of position and generally undersized against their opponents and left to clean up their mess.

On a positive note it is still early and the trade deadline has not passed. We still have a lot of talent and have the time to get it working together or make a move to change the mix.

About fucking time someone shares my sentiment on this issue. IMO you have nailed it right on the head. This system is so favored to our perimeter players that they are treated like absolute Saints, and our inside players are treated like the fucking plague.

My desire to like this "system" has been growing thin ever since the 05-06 season where D'Antoni got it in his noggin somewhere that midget ball is the only way to run a system, and when Barbosa decided that hes playing 1 on 5 and the goal of the game is to try to make the most ridiculous circus shots go in the hoop every time you drive.

[AlanS]

I don't think it was bandied about in the media. The media knew Amare wasn't at practice and when they asked Kerr about it he said it would be handled internally. When they asked Amare about it later he said his kid was sick and it wasn't because he was mad at the team. Afterwards Kerr still said he didn't want to talk about it and it was already dealt with. I think maybe because of the problems they are having right now many things are being read in to what is actually going on.

I totally agree. From all appearances, a lot of people have made a mountain out of molehill over this... people are seeing the worst case scenaio in everything.

[misteradiant]

I don't blame Amare for getting pissed. He's our best and most consitently effective scoring weapon. Not going to him for that long of a stretch is ridiculous. Could any of you imagine not going to Barkley for that period of time in 1993? Of course not.

I'm a little disappointed in Nash right now. He should know to get Amare involved. Really makes me wonder if there's a rift there. Especially now with his comments about people complaining about their shot attempts. Normally I would agree and I hate hearing players complain about not getting touches but... in this case Amare is right. When he gets touches he delivers. Give him the god damn ball already.

I lose more faith in our coaching staff daily. This article isn't helping any.

Edit: I'll add one more thing. Amare needs to do a better job of establishing position and DEMANDING the ball during the game instead of complaining about it afterwards. He gets a little lacksidasical out there sometimes when things aren't going his way.

excellent is what mister burns would say of your post.

amare delivers wins when he scores 20 and rebounds 10.


20 and 10

that should be tattooed backwards on mike d'antoni's head so he can see it every time he shaves or combs his hair or brushes his teeth in the mirror. we are mike d. we are brushing our teeth. we remember to ask steve to get it to amare 20 times a game. brush up 20 times. brush down 20 times. i'm thinking, "he'll convert that to at least 20 points. it also energizes him for great defense. do you notice how his d drops when he isn't involved offensively?" good. brush sideways 10 times. i'm mike d'antoni. i must get the ball to amare 20 times a game.


Are Nash and Coach too dense to realize that some of our players just arent as good as others?

I like it just as much as anyone else when Bell is hitting his shots or Barbosa is running the other team ragged. But neither one hits as regularly -- often with a foul shot to follow -- as Amare.

Everyone can still be involved, but the ball needs to go inside first. Then the open outside shots will come. Maybe some don't get that -- Nash included. Maybe we are just failing to execute. Either way, the fact that it is still a glaring problem doesn't reflect well on coach.

i think we are coming to a realization here and it's gonna put some pressure on steve nash. he needs to hit it like a businessman who doesn't like to see others benefit. he needs to hit it like the win is all that matters and egos will be munched on as fuel. maybe in the happy ending department, he finds that everybody is happier winning, even if amare averages 30 and 13 and everybody averages less.

this just in! good news costs less than 53 bucks! now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

an issue seems also to be shawn marion. my opinion on trade scenarios is well known. does that mean i won't offer my own? the answer is no. i do not know if this is by design by the front office. i offer a trade scenario i believe is worthy because it is not this year. this year i still believe the team stays the same.

shawn wants a fat extension. the suns won't give it to him. they know they have to do something to keep him or they have to trade him. steve kerr wants shawn less productive so he can re-sign him for much less with the news to shawn that it's the amare show and you're not worth 60 million to us. shawn will be a restricted free agent that other teams will covet, even if he's 15 and 9. what team in the league wouldn't trade for that kind of guarantee to go along with a history of playing 80 games a season? he could get 13 mil for 4 years from someone then. the suns might match that or work a sign-and-trade off that. there are a bunch of nifty players in a year or two for that kind of booty who will be younger than shawn. my proposal is not mine as much as steve kerr's. it is what i think kerr is doing. he is thinking about the future of the team. he is lowering shawn's value for a sign-and-trade to another team for a younger star we want. i think it happens this summer through february 2009. we'll see, because it's only a guess. if shawn is truly disgruntled and affecting chemistry, then it could be a good thing. if it will be a bad thing, i think we'll find out. my hope is that it is good for us and for shawn.

as for the other players responsible for the chemistry issue, it isn't raja, i guarantee it. i doubt leandro has a problem. i doubt grant hill has one, nor skinner. if banks does, nobody cares. the white guys at the end are happy just to get paid to work 45 minutes a day a few days a week. the rookies are wise to just smile. so i'm left with shawn is dissatisfied with everything from the top to the towel boy and steve must not like amare. shawn didn't get a ton of touches against nola, either. he just sucked frog farts with what he got. steve didn't hit amare, and nobody else did much, either.

boris looked good for three minutes. banks and skinner should have both played more. what's it with skinner anyway, this is today's news, and that was yesterday. sorry. i was busy. gotta let it out somewhere, even if it's a day late. you know how it is.

i could go on, but i won't. stupid phoenix, be more funny or i'll force it down your throats like a watertube in a hurricane.

[misteradiant]

You know we've hit dark times when people start semi-calling-out Nash. Steve Nash is not even close to being the problem with this team. He is the only reason we are even a playoff team. Look, when Amare is open, Nash will give him the ball. I trust in Nash to do this, and from the games I have watched, he has done this.

The problem comes when Amare is on the floor without Nash. LB and the other ballhandlers don't look for Amare nearly as much; he's next to useless out there with them. To me that is why his FGA are not what they should be.

Get LB, Diaw, Hill to look for Amare and we will have solved a lot of our offensive problems.

i like this too. a lot. so that'll learn ya for taking anything i say seriously. but seriously, i don't think steve works with amare enough. i don't think he passes to him enough. amare gets open more than you think. i'll pay special attention tonight, but my guess is that you'll see steve pass up an open amare or not work a pick-n-roll when the opportunity for one presented itself.

[misteradiant]

A wise man in the entertainment business told me a long time ago that "You're only as good as your last performance".

dang. i must be over-reacting. happens sometimes. but i can't get rid of the feeling of maliase. like a pink floyd song from animals. something isn't right now and if we lose tonight, then i still might be right or wrong. regardless of quantum probability experiments, i've got a feeling and i'm getting bugged. bugged like some bad sci fi channel bug movie starring lou diamond phillips or that guy from hercules. but in 3d with electric shocks in my seat.

i've been wrong before, and i will be wrong again. i guess tonight's game will go some ways into proving we're ready for the schedule we've gotcoming up or if we fall to #4 in the west.

[AlanS]

It seems to me that the only player Coach D converses with in a civil manner during a game is Nash. If he has a turnover or misses a defensive assignment it appears that Coach D and Nash talk it over and Nash is told to keep doing what he is doing, after all you are the MVP. When STAT makes a mistake no guidance seems to be given, rather his name comes out in the press the next day that he needs to play harder and he is a horrible defender, same with Shawn. At the same time Nash never calls out his buddies in the backcourt, ever.

Question: Exactly how many times has Nash come out and specifically said that Amare is the problem? He has said the team needs to play harder... why can't we assume that Nash is talking about everybody, not just Amare? I assume Nash is calling out the entire team (and I do hope he's looking in a mirror when he's finished talking). Plus, Nash's comments on how Stat "might be feeling" seemed to me to be very sympathetic toward Amare.

Question RE: "When STAT makes a mistake no guidance seems to be given"... how do you know that? The players and coaches talk in time-outs, between qtrs and between halves. Often, the Suns have dynamite 3rd qtrs - I would guess it's their best qtr - and that's a sign the team is doing a decent job of assessing its 1st half mistakes and making adjustments. It is unbelievable to me that an entire game/any game can go by and the coaches and Amare have no substantive discussions at all regarding plays or adjustments.

[misteradiant]

It just seems to me, a lot of people (maybe including the Suns players and coaches) are missing the point about why the Suns lost to NOH. The Suns scored 113 pts, and shot 53% from the field. Maybe Amare didn't get a lot of touches, but Nash was 9/14 from the field, LB was 11/19, Banks was 4/6. THIS WAS ONE OF THE SUNS' BEST SHOOTING GAMES OF THE SEASON!

The reason they lost this game was horrible defense...

The perimeter D was atrocious, and size was not the problem. It won't matter how many shots Amare gets if the Suns are going to be defenseless to stop the other team.

End of rant...

i hope you felt better. i often do. i also often just get more ranty and then, well.... you know. a fried peanut butter and banana sandwich.

amare did not get the shots. what if amare got those shots? how many more and-ones or just plain free throws? two, three? what if steve just once ran at a guy those two times and the guy missed like he did when steve finally ran at him the 3rd time? that's 5 or 6 points. that makes it anybody's game. amare needed more touches and steve needed to exert himself. i blame steve for both failures to execute a winning game.

[Xcon]

Trade Steve Nash!!! ;-)

[Xcon]

Look how much better we've played in the last 3.5 years when Nash isn't on the floor. It's time to cut the dead weight loose!! ;-P

[AlanS]

amare did not get the shots. what if amare got those shots? how many more and-ones or just plain free throws? two, three? what if steve just once ran at a guy those two times and the guy missed like he did when steve finally ran at him the 3rd time? that's 5 or 6 points. that makes it anybody's game. amare needed more touches and steve needed to exert himself. i blame steve for both failures to execute a winning game.

We'll have to agree to disagree MR, and that's cool.

The thing is, 53% FG shooting in an NBA game is REMARKABLE. If you look at the stats, no NBA team averages 50% FG shooting for the season. In fact, only 4 teams even shoot over 47% from the field. So a 52% shooting game is outstanding. To complain about Amare not getting shots when Nash, LB, and Banks are a combined 24/39 (61%), including 5 treys, is focusing on the wrong thing.

That's why I keep saying: offense was NOT the problem. 53% shooting and 113 pts should be enough to beat anybody. But some pretty horrible defense let this game fall into the L column. At least, that's how I see it.

[Nodack]

no worries mr.

I read the whole thread at one sitting and wrote that afterwards. As usual I go into my spiel. Things aren't all rosy in Suns land and there appears to be some ruffles getting a little ruffled on the Suns and here too. It's all good. Some of the best friendships have come out of disagreements. Look at Rocky and Apollo Creed.

i
don't think he passes to him enough. amare gets open more than you think. i'll pay special attention tonight, but my guess is that you'll see steve pass up an open amare or not work a pick-n-roll when the opportunity for one presented itself.


I think with all the hype after the loss and the meetings and missed practice that maybe they will sit down in a room and let everything out in the open and discuss ways to compromise and come together as a team. The team not going to Amare in the second half was pretty widely talked about in the press and by the coach, so I'm thinking you just might see a lot of Amare tonight if the opportunity arises. Amare might be hungry for the ball too.

Of course Shawn hasn't been scoring much and you have to make him happy too.


Question: Exactly how many times has Nash come out and specifically said that Amare is the problem? He has said the team needs to play harder... why can't we assume that Nash is talking about everybody, not just Amare? I assume Nash is calling out the entire team (and I do hope he's looking in a mirror when he's finished talking). Plus, Nash's comments on how Stat "might be feeling" seemed to me to be very sympathetic toward Amare.

Question RE: "When STAT makes a mistake no guidance seems to be given"... how do you know that? The players and coaches talk in time-outs, between qtrs and between halves. Often, the Suns have dynamite 3rd qtrs - I would guess it's their best qtr - and that's a sign the team is doing a decent job of assessing its 1st half mistakes and making adjustments. It is unbelievable to me that an entire game/any game can go by and the coaches and Amare have no substantive discussions at all regarding plays or adjustments.


WORD

[Velo]

FurlanFufi said:

"My 2 cents on post game notes:

1 - Marion is OBVIOUSLY the problem. Al the talk of "my trade request is gone, and I'm a team player" vanished when his numbers started to drop (and with that, a chance for a monster contract next year). And they didn't drop just because he's not giving 100%, it's because we now have another smilar threat from inside- Grant Hill. It's no coincidence that we're shooting and making less 3 pointers.
I love Marion but he rarely puts himself in a good position (his post up try was laughable) and do not move on offense like past years.

2 - I love Barbs, and I don't blame him for doing what he is doing. Because you have to TELL HIM to do what you want. If they want him to pass back down low to Amare, they have to ask him, and I would bet a month's salary that the told him to swing the ball to the top again when the post up play don't work.

3- We need shooters. 35% will not work for a team that wants to play a fast paced game.
We have the mid range game right now, can't we find ANYBODY who could shoot and get some minutes, and defend a little?

4 D'antoni strategy to put the best guys on the court and let them figure it out will not work with this year team. More guys that does the same thing (Marion, Diaw, Hill), our shooters are not shooting well, they don't love each other anymore, and the championship is not their main focus ( and if they wait to turn on the motors on the playoffs, could be very late)."



i agree with you 100% marion's nubers are down and its a shame he wouldn't accept the boston deal. barbosa is doing a great job, imo.

i agree on the 3-pt shooting problem too. i remember JJ and Q.. .the were big guards and could put up the 3 and rebound. with raja, hill, and barbosa, we no longer have that. we have some rebounding (hill) and some 3 point shooting (raja, barbosa) but not both from the 2-3.

[Velo]

The problem with "trade marion" threads now is that he has so little value because he's overpaid and under productive. he doesn't even have a post up game...

[misteradiant]

so cool to be wrong. we looked great. even amare in limited foul-plagued minutes. what about marion and his 3's? how about 12 blocks? what about marcus banks? and the way assists were spread around? the bad wasa only really the rebounding. we were out-offensive-rebounded 12 to 23. ouch. guess it doesn't matter when you go 20 of 31 from 3 point land.

now for the warriors to beat san antonio...

[Nodack]

Yea, the Suns came out firing on all cylinders and played inspired ball. Damn, we won't have anything to talk about tomorrow. :)


The problem with "trade marion" threads now is that he has so little value because he's overpaid and under productive. he doesn't even have a post up game...

He really is terrible. 27 PTS, 5-9 3PT, 6 BS, 14 RB, 4 Assists, 0 TO

[darrkin]

Stupid Suns go and win big just to make all us experts look ridiculous...Holy Banks Batman!!

[BobbyDogg]

A wise man in the entertainment business told me a long time ago that "You're only as good as your last performance".

dang. i must be over-reacting. happens sometimes. but i can't get rid of the feeling of maliase. like a pink floyd song from animals. something isn't right now and if we lose tonight, then i still might be right or wrong. regardless of quantum probability experiments, i've got a feeling and i'm getting bugged. bugged like some bad sci fi channel bug movie starring lou diamond phillips or that guy from hercules. but in 3d with electric shocks in my seat.

i've been wrong before, and i will be wrong again. i guess tonight's game will go some ways into proving we're ready for the schedule we've gotcoming up or if we fall to #4 in the west.

...you better watch out. There may be dogs about....

-Pink Floyd
Animals 1977

[Velo]

The problem with "trade marion" threads now is that he has so little value because he's overpaid and under productive. he doesn't even have a post up game...

He really is terrible. 27 PTS, 5-9 3PT, 6 BS, 14 RB, 4 Assists, 0 TO

i'm not saying that he isn't a streaky player and wont go on his runs (12 over his scoring average tonight) ... i just think the dude wants to be traded but has an untradeable contract.

[INFORMER]

Yea, the Suns came out firing on all cylinders and played inspired ball. Damn, we won't have anything to talk about tomorrow. :)


The problem with "trade marion" threads now is that he has so little value because he's overpaid and under productive. he doesn't even have a post up game...

He really is terrible. 27 PTS, 5-9 3PT, 6 BS, 14 RB, 4 Assists, 0 TO

That's a very opportunistic post.

[INFORMER]

i just think the dude wants to be traded but has an untradeable contract.

Untradeable? That's a bit of an overstatement.

[ShelC]

Shawn always plays better pissed off. He can be a monster with a chip on his shoulder. But he also coasts and can get content more often than not, which is probably what happened prior to the Nuggets game. Last night he got up and the results were there. We talk about amare coasting, but shawn is just as guilty.

[INFORMER]

We talk about amare coasting, but shawn is just as guilty.

I don't know about that.

[Wormwood]

D-League Performer of the Week, January 7, 2008

D.J. Strawberry, Albuquerque Thunderbirds



D.J Strawberry, Albuquerque Thunderbirds
Barry Gossage/Getty Images/NBAE

D.J. Strawberry of the Albuquerque Thunderbirds, on assignment from the Phoenix Suns, is the seventh D-League Performer of the Week for the 2007-08 season.

Strawberry averaged 34.0 points in two games last week, posting scoring totals of 39 and 29 points. He closed out the week with a line of 39 points, seven rebounds, six assists, and two steals in an 89-87 win over Fort Wayne. For the week Strawberry also averaged 6.5 rebounds and 5.5 assists while shooting .585 (24-41) from the field. He also connected on .571 (8-14) of his attempts from three-point range.

A 6-5 guard from Maryland, Strawberry was the 59th overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft. He is averaging 31.6 points, 3.8 rebounds, and 3.2 assists in five games since being assigned to the D-League on December 18. Prior to his assignment, Strawberry appeared in six NBA games for the Suns, averaging 2.0 points.

In all the Banks love going on around here, we've sort of forgotten about the rookies.

As for Banks, Diaw has earned some leash with his play in 2005-2006. Banks never did. He came in stinking the joint up playing as a one man show.... and this is one of only a handful of times he's played well in close to 70 games for us. Banks at his worst killed this team harder and faster than Diaw did. Seriously. Let's see if Banks can string a couple of weeks of this together where he's playing well overall. After that, I'll concede he's probably turned the corner.

As it is, though, I will admit he's done better this year than last, even if that isn't saying much.

[ShelC]

I don't know about that.

Shawn coasts. Its subtle, but when hes really on and bouncing around, we're a completely different team. But hes so consistent most of the time with his athleticsm and his stats that it doesnt look like he coasts.

In all the Banks love going on around here, we've sort of forgotten about the rookies.

Because theyre rookies who arent expected to play. Just because we drafted them, doesnt mean we're going to play them, especially with 4 mil a year guard on the bench. Thats the way it is. And let me tell you about the DLeague....for Straw and Tucker, its a big step down competition wise from where they came from in the NCAA. We'd be better off loaning them to a top euro club for a year or 2. Send them to CSKA, FC Barcelona, Maccabi, Panathianakoas. Theyd get some real run and experience there.

[misteradiant]

wow. i sure got off easy here. hooray for misteradiant!

[Mori_Chu]

I have given up any expectation that the rookies will play this year at all. Even if we lose a guard or SF from our rotation, Coach seems to put Pike earlier in the rotation before the rooks.

Long-term, I still think that Tucker has more chance of sticking on the roster than DJ because of his strength and scoring ability. We shall see.

[sunsdotcom]

Yea, the Suns came out firing on all cylinders and played inspired ball. Damn, we won't have anything to talk about tomorrow. :)


The problem with "trade marion" threads now is that he has so little value because he's overpaid and under productive. he doesn't even have a post up game...

He really is terrible. 27 PTS, 5-9 3PT, 6 BS, 14 RB, 4 Assists, 0 TO

That's a very opportunistic post.

:lol: