Game Day: Hornets @ Suns

[AlanS]

Dis•cuss

Phoenix vs. New Orleans
AP NEWS | The Associated Press News Service

Led by two-time league MVP Steve Nash, the three-time defending Pacific Division champion Phoenix Suns were once again expected to be one of the best teams in the league.

The New Orleans Hornets, meanwhile, were not predicted to one of the NBA's top teams after three straight losing seasons, but are right with Phoenix near the top of the highly competitive Western Conference.

The veteran Suns look to win their fifth straight game and slow down the surprising Hornets as two of the West's top teams square off in Phoenix on Saturday.

The Pacific Division-leading Suns (23-9) have moved ahead of San Antonio atop the West thanks to their winning streak. Phoenix is just a half-game ahead of the second-place Spurs, who are only one game in front of Dallas and New Orleans (22-11) in the Southwest Division.

The Hornets have won seven of their last eight games to climb the standings.
"We're under the radar. Not too many people are talking about us nationally," New Orleans center Tyson Chandler said. "I hope they don't. It allows us to come in and sneak up on guys. A lot of times when teams get up for you, that's when you have letdowns. Right now we're sneaking in under the radar."

The Hornets beat the Suns 101-98 at home on Dec. 15, snapping a six-game losing streak to Phoenix. The Suns have still won 11 of their last 13 games over New Orleans.

Phoenix is coming off a 104-96 win over Seattle on Thursday, as the league's highest-scoring team tallied 91 points in the final three quarters. The Suns, who average 109.2 points, trailed 33-13 after the first period on just 4-for-20 shooting.

Amare Stoudemire had another outstanding performance on Thursday, scoring 34 points on 11-of-19 shooting while grabbing 11 rebounds. The two-time All-Star is averaging 30.8 points on 67.1 percent shooting and 13.3 boards in his last four games, and the Suns are 12-0 when Stoudemire has at least 20 points and 10 rebounds.

"Personally, I just want to get better and grow as a player and I want to get to my full potential," said Stoudemire, who had 16 points and eight rebounds in last month's loss to the Hornets. "Due to the injuries and minor set backs, at the start of the season I started off a little slow. But now I'm starting to feel better, my legs are back, my conditioning level is where it should be, and it should go higher from there."

Nash had 17 points and 10 assists on Thursday, but had just 12 points and seven assists in the loss to New Orleans.

Phoenix has won four straight home games, and is 10-3 at the US Airways Center.
New Orleans, which is a conference-leading 13-5 on the road, won 116-104 at Golden State on Friday, its season-high fifth straight road win. The Hornets have not won six consecutive road games since reeling off a franchise-record seven from Feb. 21-March 24, 1998, when the team was in Charlotte.

"We've been a great road team since the start of the season," Chris Paul said. "I think it's just us being focused. I've always loved playing on the road. You're always an underdog, the crowd is against you. It really shows your will. Our team really has a strong willpower."

Paul had 24 points and 13 assists against the Warriors, and had 21 and 10, respectively, against the Suns last month.

Chandler had a season-high 22 points and matched a season best with 22 rebounds on Friday. He is averaging 16.2 points and 16.8 boards during the road winning streak, and had 14 points and 18 rebounds against Phoenix.

[SwingMan]

Peja's gonna give us a mess of problems.

Could go either way, but I'm leaning towards a loss tonight.....

[misteradiant]

and that's why you're gonna fall on your ass, swing!

:lol:

[Wormwood]

The Hornets have all the right ingredients to give us fits. Their shooting will give our rotating defensive scheme problems, and Chandler man- handled Amare last time. Amare has been letting opposing bigs go off on him all season, both in terms of points and rebounds.

Suns drop this one 106-102 and lose the battle on the boards by at least 12.

[SwingMan]

and that's why you're gonna fall on your ass, swing!

:lol:

Hey - I'd be willing to trade a couple of busted ass pimples for a win.

It's more than Sarver would give for some big help.....

[LazarusLong]

Sure, it's still early in the season, but it would be nice for a "statement game" of sorts against a solid WC opponent.

[ethan_cohen]

Agreed Laz. I see us taking this one at home. Last game was a close one and we weren't sharp. I feel good about tonight's match.

[SwingMan]

Last game NO didn't have Stojakovic either. I hope Hill's up to the task.....

[JustWinBaby]

The Hornets have all the right ingredients to give us fits. Their shooting will give our rotating defensive scheme problems, and Chandler man- handled Amare last time. Amare has been letting opposing bigs go off on him all season, both in terms of points and rebounds.

Suns drop this one 106-102 and lose the battle on the boards by at least 12.

If we get outrebounded by 12 I guarantee a loss.

If we out rebound them we win by double digits.

If we stay within 4 rebounds it will be a close game and we have a chance.

[Mori_Chu]

Chris Paul has been just insane lately. I was watching him in the NO-GSW game the other night, and he absolutely shredded their defense. Got in the lane, made great passes for dunks and layups, hit dagger jumpers, made free throws ... the guy is just crazy right now. He scares the hell out of me.

New Orleans has a formidable team. I think we can beat them tonight if we play well, but if we pull a Seattle and get down early, NO won't be as kind about letting us back in it. Here's hoping the boys show up and avenge their previous loss. If not, we'll have to read about how both the Lakers and the Hornets own us this year.

[Dammit]

We just need to get off to a solid start and box out every once in a while. Drives me nuts to watch these guys not boxing out when the opposing team puts up a shot. Rebounding is more about battling for position than simply being about size. There's no reason we should get killed on the boards like we do.

[Dustbuster]

Neither of NBA.coms audio feeds seem to be working for the game. KTAR's seems to be blacked out. Anyone got any advice for me on the audio?

[desertcoast]

who's that guy out there hitting 3/3 from outside?

Looks like Marcus Banks, but I must be mistaken....

[FurlanFufi]

Should I hope to Raja get a flu every game till they realize Barbs should start?

[Sunny_Kid]

What a half. Matrix and Bell got 0 pt, but we lead by double digits

[LazarusLong]

Great first half, offensively.

Barbosa, who should have started anyway, comes into the game early for an ill Bell and shreds NO's guards. Banks then is free to launch mortar rounds from behind the arc. Ball movement is superb. Topped off with an Amare trey.

Only complaint was poor defensive rotations in the first quarter, but that seems to be solved, more or less. Note that Hill, Marion and STAT are taking turns on Chandler to frustrate him, since there is no other inside threat from NO.

[darrkin]

Should I hope to Raja get a flu every game till they realize Barbs should start?

Start Barbs already!! I agree, also play Banks more...Rest Raja...If Banks can start being great we are gonna be tough to handle. Glad to see Banks start to play well, he deserves it

[LazarusLong]

Nash is winning PG battle, 21 pts and 6 dimes in 16 minutes, to Chris Paul's 12 pts and 5 dimes in 24 minutes. NO starters logging a lot of minutes in first half and could be toast in fourth quarter.

[SwingMan]

Damn - Matrix ain't even in the game and we're up by 11.

Not a damn person here can say I won't give props where they're due: Banks has had an outstanding floor game so far tonight. He's not forcing the issue, he's kept Paul in solid check and he's taking open shots while playing heads up. And, most importantly, he's not grinding the offense to a screeching halt. Being 3-3 from the arc certainly helps, but I could give a shit if he was 0-3 - the rest of his game tonight has been stellar.

Same for Diaw (!!!!!), who's picked his spots nicely and looks to have found a happy medium on when to score and when to pass. Maybe there's a bit of a pulse there after all..... :lol:

Amare? When D'Antoni hasn't had his ass scrambling out on the perimeter, he's been playing Chandler like a madman. Can't say enough about his D tonight - and he hit his third 3 of the season. :lol: :cool:

Great flow to this game as well - haven't been able to say that a lot recently. I knew Peterson would peter out (pun intended) eventually, as he's as streaky a jump shooter as they come, but otherwise, the overall D has been decent.

Uh, Mike? Time to take the fucking hardline with Raja - sit his ass until he's healed and in one frigging piece again.

68-57 Suns going nucking futs, shooting 59% (7-12 for 58% from 3) and 22 boards to NO's 16. Here's to more in the 2nd half.....

[LazarusLong]

Marion might just bust it out in the second half.
Need to keep Mo Pete and Peja in check, still.

[LazarusLong]

I don't understand why they have Barbosa guarding Peja.
Nonsense ...

[LazarusLong]

Missed rotation by Diaw. Peja for three.
Shit! Move your ass, Boris!

[AlanS]

Missed rotation by Diaw. Peja for three.
Shit! Move your as, Boris!

Agreed. That was HORRIBLE defense. If he played for other teams - the Jazz come immediately to mind - he would have been benched immediately.

[LazarusLong]

Questionable lineup: Barbosa, Nash and Banks, together with Diaw and Marion. That works if Diaw is rebounding and playing D. He didn't in the third quarter. Marion played some D, but was MIA mostly on offense, with the random misfiring trey attempt.

[desertcoast]

Missed rotation by Diaw. Peja for three.
Shit! Move your as, Boris!

Agreed. That was HORRIBLE defense. If he played for other teams - the Jazz come immediately to mind - he would have been benched immediately.

yeah, Boris just gave up on even trying..not even a half hearted wave of the arms.
Diaw has patches where he looks good, then he's totally checked out.

[Sunny_Kid]

Missed rotation by Diaw. Peja for three.
Shit! Move your as, Boris!

Agreed. That was HORRIBLE defense. If he played for other teams - the Jazz come immediately to mind - he would have been benched immediately.



Yeaa, maybe this is why so many players want to play for the Suns

[ShelC]

Banks took an elbow to the mouth from Paul on that last drive....probably due to frustration. Hes really giving Paul all he can handle, which is what we need. Banks should be playing against those smaller quicker guards. Not only is he as quick, or quicker, but hes stronger than guys like Parker and Paul and can really hold them off. Glad to see him gaining some confidence.

[RFID]

offensive rebound is killing us.
105-107. Suns down by 2. Amare needs to play more aggressive.

[Spanky]

Out coached by Byron? Out played by NO? Yeppers.

[SwingMan]

Someone wanna explain what just happened? Is it fucking midnight already? :roll:

[LazarusLong]

Lost this game in the third quarter, with that inexplicable lineup of three small guards, Boris and Shawn. That allowed Peja, in particular, to get hot.

This was in contrast to the last portion of the second quarter, when they had Hill at guard, and went with a taller lineup that helped shut NO down.

I was most impressed by Chris Paul, who had a great second half. Props to NO.

Shit.

[bobster]

two things really killed the suns tonight -

1 - when they had a lead in the third, marion shot the hornets back into the game tonight. he was just horrible tonight.

2 - they just couldn't stop the hornets when they needed to down the stretch. chris paul just killed them.

also, nash had a great first half, but was pretty much non-existent in the second, and they just didn't get amare enough shots.

[SwingMan]

I'm about ready to take a ball pean hammer to the side of D'Antoni's head - Why the fuck did Skinner get ZERO run in the 2nd half?

[Uncle_Gene]

No surprise with this loss. I expected the Hornets to win and they turned it up a notch in the 2nd half. What happened to Matrix ? Suns got killed on the offensive boards. That 's what killed it.

Where was that article about standing pat ? Suns >>NEED<< more muscle inside. Another "aggressive" rebounder is needed.

[LazarusLong]

Defensive rotations again killed them.
Too many wide open, uncontested threes.
That, and mismatches ... Peja twice hitting over Barbosa, who's about six inches shorter.

[LazarusLong]

Why didn't Skinner play any minutes in the second half?

[SwingMan]

Why didn't Skinner play any minutes in the second half?

Good minds - see above..... :cool:

[Uncle_Gene]

He didn't play in the 2nd half ?

Well, there you have it !!!!!!!!

Hey D'Antoni, just cause David West didn't play doesn't mean you weren't gonna get crushed on the boards.

[darrkin]

They need to play bigger, I like Amare to stay on his man..dont switch he always picks up stupid fouls and his man scores anyway.....Caoch D cant seem to coach, we cant rebound we are not winning anything without the ball......I would like to see more of a lineup of Skinner and Amare when we are getting outboarded. Also, Nash sat way too long when game was in balance, duhh...everyone that was watching game with me was saying why is Nash on bench so long. Coach has done this before..oh and Diaw sucks...he can make some good plays as any NBA player can, but is too soft for a championship level team. We could really use a guy like Turiaf. Think we are missing a hustle rebound type. Also, this was the first game in awhile where we kinda went away from Amare and an inside out type of game...and guess what...we lost!! That trend will continue as long as we play like this, thought we were over that, guess not..another lesson learned. Maybe its good as I bet next game we play more of an inside out game with Amare. Also, NO is not that great, they will be one and done in playoffs.

[bobster]

Why didn't Skinner play any minutes in the second half?

chandler was killing them when they had marion on him - it would have been nice to at least *try* skinner at that point in the second half.

[LazarusLong]

Oops, my bad Quisty. Didn't read your entire post.

This was a disappointing loss. Suns seem to be content to win the first half.

The only positive takeaway was Banks play, which was solid.
He was the only guard able to be semi-effective against Chris Paul.

[LazarusLong]

Bobster ... they had a rotation of Amare, Marion and Hill in the first half that was somewhat effective on Chandler. But they went away from that in the second half, and it cost the Suns. They could have worked Skinner in on that rotation.

Matrix had his moments on D, but his offense was MIA. WTF is up with free throws? He was, what, 2-5 or something like that?

[ShelC]

NO is a dangerous team but isnt better than us. Theyre definitely hungrier at this point and we got outcoached in the 2nd half which kills me cuz ByronScott isnt that great a coach. Skinner shouldve been glued to Chandler. I thought Stevie passed up some shots he shouldve stepped up and taken during crunch time. Pargo and MoPete hit some bullshit shots down the stretch. Marion was garbage tonight. The 3 guard lineup probably wasnt the best idea.

In a 7 game series they dont beat us, but it would be a tough 6, maybe 7 games.

[Andy_S]

Ouch. I feel like someone just punched me in the crotch.

[SwingMan]

Oops, my bad Quisty. Didn't read your entire post.

This was a disappointing loss. Suns seem to be content to win the first half.

The only positive takeaway was Banks play, which was solid.
He was the only guard able to be semi-effective against Chris Paul.

It's cool - like I said, good minds. ;)

Banks, for all intents and purposes, totally disappeared in the 2nd half. No D on Paul, even in the 3rd Q.

C-O-M-P-L-A-C-E-N-C-Y

The players ought to wear 2 pairs of skivvies from here on out, from seeing how often they get bit in the ass..... :roll:

[darrkin]

Oops, my bad Quisty. Didn't read your entire post.

This was a disappointing loss. Suns seem to be content to win the first half.

The only positive takeaway was Banks play, which was solid.
He was the only guard able to be semi-effective against Chris Paul.

Heres what I cant figure out, we can see its obvious what would probably work, how come our million dollar genius coaches cant?? Hmm...getting killed on boards by bigger guys..I have an idea, call me crazy..lets go with a bigger lineup for a bit.....Nobody but Banks can seem to harass and slow Paul down..hmm maybe keep him there a little longer....Oh and when game is in balance with us clinging to a five point lead, lets not play the MVP point guard, he needs to rest longer, we will bring him in when we are behind by five. To me the simple solution is to get rid of the weak link.....Diaw! Give Banks and Skinner most of his minutes, they deserve it

[LazarusLong]

Skinner had five boards in seven minutes.
Boris had three in 32. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Peja and Mo Pete were 17-30 from the field.
We're not talking about two behemoths crashing the paint.
These guys did their damage from outside.

[LazarusLong]

"how come our million dollar genius coaches cant??"

It's easier for D'Antoni to stand there in his nice suit, arms crossed, with a peeved look ... sorta a like a maitre 'd who's pissed at his wait staff, but can't fire anyone because they are related to the owner.

[darrkin]

Skinner had five boards in seven minutes.
Boris had three in 32. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Peja and Mo Pete were 17-30 from the field.
We're not talking about two behemoths crashing the paint.
These guys did their damage from outside.


Shit I could score 20 on Phoenix and the defense that was played tonight. It doesnt take a genius to figure out, you dont switch off of Mo Pete and Peja....Im so sick of gimicky switching defense and three guard lineups....Also I know Kerr is, Coach D better get the title this year or I think we are gonna have some changes. I love exciting basketball, but at some point this three guard small ball has got to go away. Its way too easy for teams to get momentum and start feeling great about themselves against the shitty schemes we run

[duck44]

Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!

[bobster]

Skinner had five boards in seven minutes.
Boris had three in 32. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Peja and Mo Pete were 17-30 from the field.
We're not talking about two behemoths crashing the paint.
These guys did their damage from outside.

actually, they did a nice job on the boards overall for once, but they should could have used skinner defense at the basket and on the hornets' big men.

and they have to get amare more than 11 shots.

anyway, the hornets did some things really well tonight -

1 - they took care of the ball [only 7 turnovers]
2 - they crashed the offensive boards [15]
3 - they shot the 3-pointer well [11/27, 41%]
4 - they got a lot more shots at the basket than the suns did [95 to 77]

you have to give paul, peterson, pargo, chandler and stojakovic credit - they just played well tonight. they didn't get anything from their bench, but the suns didn't really shut down any of these guys.

[Uncle_Gene]

NO is a dangerous team but isnt better than us.

In a 7 game series they dont beat us, but it would be a tough 6, maybe 7 games.

In a playoff series, Hornets WIN ! (to my bitter dismay)

Why ?? D'Antoni would play small and that would cost them on the boards.

[SwingMan]

Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!

Couple weeks late, 'eh bright boy? :lol:

[Uncle_Gene]

Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!

Tough to say, Duck. Suns had a 4 game win streak against "cellar dwellars" then played a real team, and LOST !

[bobster]

Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!

duck - your sentence structure is very confusing.

i know you're calling us fucking whiners, but please try to be a little more eloquent when you do.

[Uncle_Gene]

Ouch. I feel like someone just punched me in the crotch.


LOL !

[darrkin]

Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!


Huh?? Your right , Duck, ever actually play sports, do you feel good when you lose? Im sure the team is just as pissed as we are and they should be. You go right ahead and keep thinking how great it is to lose with your buddy Doris. BTW, and I hope Im wrong, but if we dont start playing much better we are one and done in playoffs. Right now we are not better than Lakers, SA or Dallas. Hell, I'm not sure who we could beat in a series.

[Spanky]

I still hate Boris.... lol. The guy is such a pansy. (yes I felt like throwing that random thought in) :D

[LazarusLong]

"Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!"

Eloquent. Incisive.
You'll have a great future painting address numbers on a sidewalk, or similar skilled profession ...

[Spanky]

Eloquent. Incisive.
You'll have a great future painting address numbers on a sidewalk, or similar skilled profession ...

Hey there are big bucks in Boy Scout scams... :mrgreen:

[duck44]

Yes I have! The Suns are bored with the regular season. The same as the Spurs. Last time I checked we have the same record. And the years we had the better one they won the Championship.

It`s all about the post season and our team has finally figured this out!

[Xcon]

No surprise with this loss. I expected the Hornets to win and they turned it up a notch in the 2nd half. What happened to Matrix ? Suns got killed on the offensive boards. That 's what killed it.

Where was that article about standing pat ? Suns >>NEED<< more muscle inside. Another "aggressive" rebounder is needed.

Why, D'Antoni wouldn't play him anyway. We need another guard for a 4 guard line-up. Yeah, that's the trick.

[ShelC]

So the sky is falling again and Boris is the scapegoat? Not Shawns bad game or Raja being out or Skinner not playing in the 2nd half? If we won, i doubt thered be this many responses. Lets get real fellas, honestly. It was a tough battle that couldve gone either way. We're still fine.

[bobster]

in this case -

'standing pat' = 'committed, but only to a certain point'

[Spanky]

So the sky is falling again and Boris is the scapegoat? Not Shawns bad game or Raja being out or Skinner not playing in the 2nd half? If we won, i doubt thered be this many responses. Lets get real fellas, honestly. It was a tough battle that couldve gone either way. We're still fine.

If you were referring to my post, I never mentioned Boris as being the reason. Simply, I don't like him. :D I think we lost because of poor coaching, poor effort and lack of focus, if anything.

[LazarusLong]

Boris isn't the only one. Marion was MIA much of the game. The small lineup in the third quarter wasn't effective, except for Mo Pete and particularly Peja.

Give NO and especially Chris Paul their due.

[bobster]

So the sky is falling again and Boris is the scapegoat? Not Shawns bad game or Raja being out or Skinner not playing in the 2nd half? If we won, i doubt thered be this many responses. Lets get real fellas, honestly. It was a tough battle that couldve gone either way. We're still fine.

i agree - boris was much better than marion tonight. marion's night - 34 minutes, 2 of 9 fg, 0 of 4 3's, 2 of 5 ft, 7 reb, 6 pts.

[Spanky]

Give NO and especially Chris Paul their due.

Thumbs up. NO outplayed 'em.

[duck44]

Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!

Couple weeks late, 'eh bright boy? :lol:

Pick a new team then. You are the worst hater on this board. I`m a bigger Suns fan than you could ever imagine. We beat a bad team we suck. We beat a good team barely we suck. We don`t play you`re scheduled roster compared to coach D we suck. Give it a break. This team is built for the playoffs and the last time I looked we have played the fewest hamoe games than any team in the league and played some pretty good teams and still have one of the top records in the entire NBA. so chill the fuck out before continually putting this team in the realm of the Sonics or T-Wolves!

[Xcon]

So when we're one and done in the playoffs, will we still be whiners or will they simply be saving it for next year's playoffs. There needs to be changes, whether it personnel or game plan, the current status quo is not working that well.

[LazarusLong]

No, Xcon, Suns need to play some more "hamoe" games ... Then they'll kick booty ...

[LazarusLong]

All is not lost. ASU won today ... they are 2-0 in the PAC 10 ... w00t!

[darrkin]

I'm officially a whiner, until I see us play smart and manhandle a quality opponent. I love the team, and most of the players, but just dont agree with some of these horrible lineups. Also, it seem like our Coach still cant make in game adjustments. Three guard lineup is fine to tinker with, but if we start to fall apart make a change and go bigger....he seems very stubborn. How many teams have there highest offensive outputs against us, its getting embarrassing, some kinda change has got to be made.

[SwingMan]

Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!

Couple weeks late, 'eh bright boy? :lol:

Pick a new team then. You are the worst hater on this board. I`m a bigger Suns fan than you could ever imagine. We beat a bad team we suck. We beat a good team barely we suck. We don`t play you`re scheduled roster compared to coach D we suck. Give it a break. This team is built for the playoffs and the last time I looked we have played the fewest hamoe games than any team in the league and played some pretty good teams and still have one of the top records in the entire NBA. so chill the fuck out before continually putting this team in the realm of the Sonics or T-Wolves!

Whatever - Suns fan since 1980 here, duck. Don't wear the microscope out or break it off in someone's ass..... :lol:

[JediSkywalker]

Some thoughts on tonight's game: (I am still MAD)

Boris actually played quite well- making progress ("baby steps" as per Tom C.), but I hated it when he stopped in the middle of the play when Mo Pete went down. MP had a foul called against him, and Boris could have had a 3-point play. It will be an insult to the female basketball players to call him Doris; I know the Mercury players would have completed the play with a basket, before trying to help the fallen opponent.

Banks had the hot hand, and he played pretty good defense against Chris Paul. Why was he not used more? Dantoni is so stubborn that he will allow his team to lose, but he won't utilize a player who is actually playing well.

Marion played horrible and missed FTs. Why was he not benched? If he continues to have such up and down performances, the Suns should consider trading him for a real big man who can play defense. Too bad KG is not available anymore.

The Hornets played great, but the Suns allowed them to. No defense. Where was skinner when the Suns needed blocks? Ya, I forgot- Dantoni benched him. Why?

Dantoni is solely responsible for this loss. If he continues to make these kinds of coaching decisions, I hope this will be his last season as the Suns headcoach.

BTW why is Paul Westphal helping the Mavs win? How about helping his old team? Dantoni could use a little brain.

Suns could not make key baskets. They could not stop the Hornets from making key baskets. After a 10 point lead in the 3rd Q, the Suns went to sleep. They allowed the Hornets back in the game when they were in a position to bury them. Typical Suns attitude.

If the Suns lose to Denver on Monday- a very real possibility- they might be in a tie with NOH, with the Hornets holding the tie breaker advantage.

Am I now allowed to call this Suns team just an above average team? They cannot beat a playoff contender. Their wins against SA and Orlando were flukes.

[frezix]

You're all wrong, this loss doesn't count because raja didn't play:wink:

either way, Dj is looking real good http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20080105/FWNABQ/boxscore.html
39 points 7 rebs, 6 ast, 2 stl a block and 5 TO.

[JediSkywalker]

So when we're one and done in the playoffs, will we still be whiners or will they simply be saving it for next year's playoffs. There needs to be changes, whether it personnel or game plan, the current status quo is not working that well.


I would like to see a change right now. Mid season changes have worked for other teams (e.g. GS last year's big trade, Denver acquiring Iverson last year, Bulls firing Scott and then winning some games). Is Kerr going to wait until the season goes down the tube? I am not saying fire Dantoni NOW, but I want the Suns to do something- make a trade/get a big player/add an assistant who can actually teach defense/someone that can give sound advice to the stubborn coach, etc. I am just throwing some ideas out. This is getting unbearable. At this rate the Suns could be the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs. If they cannot win home games may be that's what they deserve. I am still holding the coach responsible for this debacle. The players have talent; Dantoni just does not know how to use it.

[Phoenix219]

At this rate the Suns could be the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs.

Where the HELL do you get this crap from? Be worried all you want, but we have one of the best records in the LEAGUE not to mention the overly talked about road record - there is NO validation for this comment *whatsoever*.

[v9]

Dantoni is solely responsible for this loss. If he continues to make these kinds of coaching decisions, I hope this will be his last season as the Suns headcoach.

Several questionable coaching decisions tonight.

(1) Agree that Skinner should have been used more. Too many times, Amare would get a nice block on the initial drive. Because the Suns didn't have a secondary shotblocker or rebounder on the floor, they ended up giving up an offensive rebound for an easy dunk. How demoralizing must that be to Amare? I counted at least 10 pts that the Hornets picked up in this manner.

(2) Why bench Amare after he got into Tyson Chicken's head? The Suns should have kept on feeding him, frustrating Chandler - and making him a non-factor in the game. Instead, Amare gets benched, the Suns go outside-in with their offense, Chandler gets back on track, and Amare loses much of the intensity he started with. WTF?

(3) Agree with previous posters - why not keep Banks on CP3?

(4) WTF were the Suns doing against the pick-and-roll? For a while, I thought that Amare was INTENTIONALLY guarding Chris Paul...it wasn't the standard "getting switched out" theme I've seen time and time again. I don't have enough of a basketball mind to understand, but there was something wierd going on.

(5) Grant Hill is obviously hurting, and should be sitting out a game or two.

(6) Why the hell were all of the 3-pt shooters open all the time? What the hell was up with Amare being used to trap CP3 so often? All I know is that whatever the Suns were doing defensively, that they were giving up open 3 after open 3.

On the flip side:

(1) Except one or two plays, I thought that Diaw played exceptionally well (except for the MoPete play). Sure, he didn't put up flashy stats, but I thought that he did a very good job being aggressive off the bench.

(2) Give the Hornets a lot of credit. In more ways than one, they reminded me of the Suns in 2004-2005 - a young team in breakout mode.

[JediSkywalker]

At this rate the Suns could be the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs.

Where the HELL do you get this crap from? Be worried all you want, but we have one of the best records in the LEAGUE not to mention the overly talked about road record - there is NO validation for this comment *whatsoever*.

No validation? How about this?

The Suns against the current top teams in the west are:

Dallas (0-1)
SA (1-0)
Lakers (0-2)
NOH (0-2)
GS (0-1)
Utah (1-0)
Houston (0-1)
Portland (0-0)
Denver (0-0)

Right now the Suns don't rank very well in this group in head to head contests (6th, if all had the same number of wins). They have not played against Denver and Portland yet. If the Suns lose to either one, they drop to 7; lose 2 and they drop to 8. In the end everyone will have a chance to beat the weak eastern teams, and the W/L records will not be that different. It means the tie breaker will be very important.

The positive road record means nothing if the Suns continue to lose at home, especially to teams they should beat. The way they are losing is not pretty either. The same old lackadaisical attitude- we will take it easy if we have a lead. Bad habits are tough to break. They cannot just flip the switch toward the end of the season and become a championship caliber team.

I will believe the Suns to be one of the top teams if they prove that they can beat other top teams- at home and on the road. Theoretically they have 3 months to do it, but can they really do it? They will have to change the way they are playing if they want to beat the contenders, and so far they have not convinced me. It's always one step forward, one step back.

[Spanky]

BTW why is Paul Westphal helping the Mavs win? How about helping his old team? Dantoni could use a little brain.


Eh? Maybe because, he was FIRED? lol... Not only that, Westphal is alot like D'Antoni. Too much of a players coach at times, not enough x's and o's.

[Spanky]

I think Phoenix should of made a move on Korver. This team needs more outside threats.

[AZSportsFan]

This loss was on Nash, IMO. His defense is atrocious. At least 4 or 5 times he completely gave up on defense, each time resulting in a made 3. Sends a great signal to your teamates when your 2-time MVP dogs it on defense. Just one game. But I am ready for a major change, just so the team starts caring again. Otherwise, it is pointless to watch because it is losing it's entertainment value. The Suns need to be careful, because the fans can sense it as well, and soon the cash will begin to not flow as freely through the turnstiles. Who will continue to pay big money to watch disinterested athletes?

[INFORMER]

Theyre definitely hungrier at this point and we got outcoached in the 2nd half which kills me cuz ByronScott isnt that great a coach.

I never have held Byron Scott in high regard either. But as great as Chris Paul and with how well David West is developing, I think credit still has to be given to Scott, who, along with Nate McMillan, are the early frontrunners for COY.


The Suns are bored with the regular season. The same as the Spurs.

Well 1) the Spurs are injured 2) they've always been a 2nd half team. I wouldn't worry about them. I'd worry about my own team.


It`s all about the post season and our team has finally figured this out!

That's a dangerous and flawed mentality. True, the regular season isn't everything, and post season is what is the real prize for this team. But just as the regular season can be overvalued, I think you can undervalue it as well. To say after every loss, "who cares, it is just the regular season" is silly at best.


Give NO and especially Chris Paul their due.

WORD.


Banks had the hot hand, and he played pretty good defense against Chris Paul. Why was he not used more?

Here's where I get mad at D'Antoni. Boris played like butt the entire season and repeatedly is run back out there for major minutes. If Banks even got half of that latitude, both he and the team would be better for it, IMHO. Banks deserves more of a chance because he actually worked on his shot in the offseason. He put in the time. Give him a chance. A REAL CHANCE.

Why Brian Skinner didn't play more is beyond me. That was a mistake that I hope coach learns from. Another lesson: Don't play a lineup that includes Nash-Banks-Barbosa. No matter what you think, that isn't exactly KJ-Nash-Kidd.


BTW why is Paul Westphal helping the Mavs win? How about helping his old team? Dantoni could use a little brain.

The defense is questionable at best and you want to bring in Westphal? Wow.

FINAL POINT (a slight rant):


Bunch of f------ whiners win we lose or win.

You want to talk about whining? How about all the whining that was going on about the unfair schedule whith the thousands of road games? :roll: WAH WAH WAH WAH David Stern hates us WAH WAH WAH! First the Suns played some pretty bad teams on the road. Secondly, why not get the bulk of the road games over now, and have more home games down the stretch? THIRD, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT PLAYING AT HOME WHEN THE SUNS DROP ONE TO THE ROCKETS, GET ANNIHILATED BY THE LAKERS, get blown out in the 1st quarter by the SONICS, and drop one tonight against the Hornets. Geez.

The Suns have work to do, the sky isn't falling, the team isn't doomed, but it is OK to point out areas where they need to improve. Those that don't care about the regular season should just leave and come back for the playoffs. If the regular season is so irrelevant, why even talk about it?

That is all.

[INFORMER]

The Suns against the current top teams in the west are:

Dallas (0-1)
SA (1-0)
Lakers (0-2)
NOH (0-2)
GS (0-1)
Utah (1-0)
Houston (0-1)
Portland (0-0)
Denver (0-0)


That's not too good.


At this rate the Suns could be the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs.

That's a little much.


I think Phoenix should of made a move on Korver.

With what? The Suns don't have an expiring contract, and $aver isn't going to just absorb Korver's contract with the trade exception. And no, the Sixers would not have wanted Marcus Banks for him.

[JediSkywalker]

This loss was on Nash, IMO. His defense is atrocious. At least 4 or 5 times he completely gave up on defense, each time resulting in a made 3. Sends a great signal to your teamates when your 2-time MVP dogs it on defense. Just one game. But I am ready for a major change, just so the team starts caring again. Otherwise, it is pointless to watch because it is losing it's entertainment value. The Suns need to be careful, because the fans can sense it as well, and soon the cash will begin to not flow as freely through the turnstiles. Who will continue to pay big money to watch disinterested athletes?

Let the Nash bashing begin. Whenever the Suns lose, it is Nash's fault, even if he scores the most points. Did Nash appear disinterested to you? You have quite an imagination. He is one of the three players on the team that always give their all (Hill and Bell being the other two- and Skinner too, if he is being used).

Nash does some things well defensively. His main role is as a distributor/ feeding the ball to open teammates, and take more shots if they are not getting it done. He scored many points. None of the Suns could stop the Hornets from scoring, so it is unfair to put the blame for this loss on Nash.

The player you need to blame is Marion. He did not defend and did not score (6 points total). A player that wants to be Defensive player of the year needs to play effective defense in every game (or at least try his best).

The person most responsible for this loss is Dantoni for making terrible decisions about the rotation. He was mainly responsible for not putting in the right players on the floor, and not finding a way to stop those open 3's NOH was getting all night. In th e4th Q, Nash was not even on the floor until less than 6 minutes were left, and NOH already had great momentum.

[INFORMER]

Let the Nash bashing begin. Whenever the Suns lose, it is Nash's fault, even if he scores the most points.

Really?! I haven't noticed too many posters pointing the finger at him after losses.

QUESTION: What happened to feeding the beast? Amare only gets 11 shots and the Suns lose. Coincidence? Was he not aggressive? Or did the Suns not look for him?

[AZSportsFan]

Nash does almost NOTHING well defensively, expect perhaps take charges, which he hasn't done as much this year. Nash is the heart of this team, I do agree. He perhaps tries his hardest, but he is a terrible defender. You cannot make up for poor defense on the offensive side of the ball. Usually, a team has a player where Nash can hide on defense. Pargo LIT HIM UP! Nowhere to hide tonight. But it is not ALL Nash's fault. Like I said, the TEAM is pretty disinterested in even trying hard right now. Tomorrow's papers will write it off, the team will write it iff, and there will be another sellout game on Monday. Too bad, actually.

[JediSkywalker]

[quote]
[quote]


[quote]BTW why is Paul Westphal helping the Mavs win? How about helping his old team? Dantoni could use a little brain.

The defense is questionable at best and you want to bring in Westphal? Wow.
FINAL POINT (a slight rant):


[


.

Read my words carefully, I did not say bring him in for defense. Dantoni needs another BRAIN. The flaws are not just defensive. The offense is not doing well either (regardless of the 109 pts per game average)- it does not get it done when it counts. Dantoni is so stubborn that he cannot think logically. It's all about the rotation he is locked into, regardless of what happens in the game. He needs someone to provide him with different ideas (if he is willing to listen, of course). Obviously Westphal is doing a good job of advising Avery in Dallas. The Mavs are on a roll.

[JediSkywalker]

Let the Nash bashing begin. Whenever the Suns lose, it is Nash's fault, even if he scores the most points.

Really?! I haven't noticed too many posters pointing the finger at him after losses.



I was specifically responsing to the comment by AZSportsfan who sounds like a Nash hater.

[Spanky]

With what? The Suns don't have an expiring contract, and $aver isn't going to just absorb Korver's contract with the trade exception. And no, the Sixers would not have wanted Marcus Banks for him.

Barbosa and Pike. Banks could slide in and take some of Babs minutes (and DJ too) :).

[AZSportsFan]

Let the Nash bashing begin. Whenever the Suns lose, it is Nash's fault, even if he scores the most points.

Really?! I haven't noticed too many posters pointing the finger at him after losses.



I was specifically responsing to the comment by AZSportsfan who sounds like a Nash hater.

Sounds like a Nash hater? Wow. Ask Steve about his game tonight and I would guarantee that he would be critical of his performance... Nash is awesome, but that does not mean he is infallible.

I know you are upset about the game, and I was upset as well. I was relating what I saw. If you saw great defense, then fine. The numbers will not support your view, though.

[INFORMER]

With what? The Suns don't have an expiring contract, and $aver isn't going to just absorb Korver's contract with the trade exception. And no, the Sixers would not have wanted Marcus Banks for him.

Barbosa and Pike. Banks could slide in and take some of Babs minutes.

:shock:

[phnart]

another disappointing game...especially since the suns seemed to be in control in the middle quarters.

[JediSkywalker]

Nash does almost NOTHING well defensively, expect perhaps take charges, which he hasn't done as much this year. Nash is the heart of this team, I do agree. He perhaps tries his hardest, but he is a terrible defender. You cannot make up for poor defense on the offensive side of the ball. Usually, a team has a player where Nash can hide on defense. Pargo LIT HIM UP! Nowhere to hide tonight. But it is not ALL Nash's fault. Like I said, the TEAM is pretty disinterested in even trying hard right now. Tomorrow's papers will write it off, the team will write it iff, and there will be another sellout game on Monday. Too bad, actually.

Nash does whatever the team needs at a given point- it could be an assist or a basket or a charge or a key rebound. He is not the defensive guy you are looking for. It is just like LB has his strengths, and Marion has his. No player is going to have absolutely all skills at the top level. Your post did not sound like it was about the team; it specifically said that Nash was responsible for this loss, and that is grossly unfair.

I did not feel that the team was not trying hard. Except for Marion (he seems to lose focus from time to time; may be he really wants to play for that team on the west coast), everyone was at least trying hard. Amare's shots were not falling, for some reason. Skinner, Banks were not given the minutes, or they could have helped. Hill seemed to be bothered by injury, but he played hard and contributed something like 15 points. This loss was not due to players being disinterested. It was because of several coaching errors throughout the game.

Do you really believe people would just stop going to the Suns games because they lost some home games? They would have to be a lottery team for that to happen and it's not going to happen this year.

[Spanky]

With what? The Suns don't have an expiring contract, and $aver isn't going to just absorb Korver's contract with the trade exception. And no, the Sixers would not have wanted Marcus Banks for him.

Barbosa and Pike. Banks could slide in and take some of Babs minutes.

:shock:

:mrgreen:

[JackArse]

they got lazy and unfocused after the 2nd quarter it seemed.
i like the fact that d'antoni hasn't panicked when they lose the lead and doesn't put nash back in.. and gives him his normal sub times.
but i don't know why he plays skinner in the first half, but not the second.

[JediSkywalker]

Let the Nash bashing begin. Whenever the Suns lose, it is Nash's fault, even if he scores the most points.

Really?! I haven't noticed too many posters pointing the finger at him after losses.



I was specifically responsing to the comment by AZSportsfan who sounds like a Nash hater.

Sounds like a Nash hater? Wow. Ask Steve about his game tonight and I would guarantee that he would be critical of his performance... Nash is awesome, but that does not mean he is infallible.

I know you are upset about the game, and I was upset as well. I was relating what I saw. If you saw great defense, then fine. The numbers will not support your view, though.

Where did I mention great defense by the Suns? You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and read my posts before you start accusing me.

As far as Nash being critical, yes he is critical of the lack of effort, and lack of success. He takes the responsibility for a loss but that does not mean you should start holding him solely responsible for it. Without his shooting, the Suns would have been in a deep hole. How about Amare not playing defense? You don't see anything wrong with him. If he played defense the way he is supposed to (as a center) the Suns may have much better defense. Tonight though, not having Raja and Marion having an off night (his heart was probably in LA) made the Suns short handed on defense. Skinner is a defensive player but the coach did not even use him in the second half. Put the blame where it should be.

[JediSkywalker]

From the Suns official site

Suns forward Amare Stoudemire (this had Marion's picture next to it)
(On slow second half): “I don’t think we necessarily dominated them [in the first half], I think we had a good lock on what we were doing defensively as far as the high pick-and-roll. At first it was causing us problems but then we got a lock on it and were switching it and were able to contain it. They had to go somewhere else, which they were able to. But at the same time you have to give them credit, they have a good team.”

(On upcoming game against Denver): “We got to get ready for it, it is what it is.”

Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suns center Shawn Marion (This had Amare's picture next to it)- when did Shawn start playing center? (I know it was an editorial mistake, but they really need to check the accuracy of what they are displaying on the Suns official website).

(On slow second half): “We’re a team that scores the ball and that’s what we have to do down the stretch. We played great defense, I think our defense was pretty solid, but we just couldn’t pull it out down the stretch.”

“I’m disappointed in the way we played. We could have won, and this is a game that we definitely should have won. We got to take it amongst ourselves to get better and give all our effort. We have to do it, there’s no excuses, there’s nothing left to say and we just have to give it all we got. So, we’ll see how it goes.”

[JustWinBaby]

The Hornets have all the right ingredients to give us fits. Their shooting will give our rotating defensive scheme problems, and Chandler man- handled Amare last time. Amare has been letting opposing bigs go off on him all season, both in terms of points and rebounds.

Suns drop this one 106-102 and lose the battle on the boards by at least 12.

If we get outrebounded by 12 I guarantee a loss.

If we out rebound them we win by double digits.

If we stay within 4 rebounds it will be a close game and we have a chance.

Well we outrebounded them by two and we lost for the 2nd time this year after getting the rebounding edge, the other one was against the Warriors.

We also shot a better percentage from the filed although they made more three pointers.

We should not have lost while outrebounding a team but we lost the biggest STAT, other than the final score, they got up 18 more shots.

This is what is hard to figure in that we outrebounded them by 2 and had only 6 more turnovers.

That should only provide them 4 more shots.

We also out Blocked them 12 to 2, which obviously helped us win the shooting percentage. However I think they must have recovered the ball on 10 of those blocks and got another shot, while not counting as an offensive rebound. That is the only way they could have got close to putting up the 18 more shots.

I was jumping back and forth between the football game, great game by the way, and missed portions but saw most of the game. It seemed to me that in the first half we were staying home under the basket and secured the rebound. Midway thru the 3rd quarter we got back into that leave early crap and left Amare to block the shot and recover the ball. Several times he blocked shots with no one to help and the New Orleans player picked up the garbage and put it in.

Marion stunk it up and Boris while having a few nice moments still is not getting done what needs to get done. Until Kerr kicks D'Antoni in the nuts and plays Skinner more with Amare we will continue this struggle. We did not lose this game becuase Raja was not there, they didn't have David West.

This is not going to favorable to many of you but Nash's defense was just horrible on whoever he guarded and they worked him all night. If he comes out and trashes Amare about his defense he needs to look in the mirror. Even though he had a good scoring night, not a good one overall for the MVP either.

Marion is really starting to concern me. He just does not seem to be himself. I don't know if he is hurt or just doesn't give a shit. He half asses free throws and except for dunks and couple of good games shooting the 3 his shot has been horrible all year. It really doesn't make sense for a guy potentially trying to get a new contract this off season.

Something is just not right.

[JediSkywalker]

The Hornets have all the right ingredients to give us fits. Their shooting will give our rotating defensive scheme problems, and Chandler man- handled Amare last time. Amare has been letting opposing bigs go off on him all season, both in terms of points and rebounds.

Suns drop this one 106-102 and lose the battle on the boards by at least 12.

If we get outrebounded by 12 I guarantee a loss.

If we out rebound them we win by double digits.

If we stay within 4 rebounds it will be a close game and we have a chance.

Well we outrebounded them by two and we lost for the 2nd time this year after getting the rebounding edge, the other one was against the Warriors.

We also shot a better percentage from the filed although they made more three pointers.

We should not have lost while outrebounding a team but we lost the biggest STAT, other than the final score, they got up 18 more shots.

This is what is hard to figure in that we outrebounded them by 2 and had only 6 more turnovers.

That should only provide them 4 more shots.

We also out Blocked them 12 to 2, which obviously helped us win the shooting percentage. However I think they must have recovered the ball on 10 of those blocks and got another shot, while not counting as an offensive rebound. That is the only way they could have got close to putting up the 18 more shots.

I was jumping back and forth between the football game, great game by the way, and missed portions but saw most of the game. It seemed to me that in the first half we were staying home under the basket and secured the rebound. Midway thru the 3rd quarter we got back into that leave early crap and left Amare to block the shot and recover the ball. Several times he blocked shots with no one to help and the New Orleans player picked up the garbage and put it in.
Marion stunk it up and Boris while having a few nice moments still is not getting done what needs to get done. Until Kerr kicks D'Antoni in the nuts and plays Skinner more with Amare we will continue this struggle. We did not lose this game becuase Raja was not there, they didn't have David West.

This is not going to favorable to many of you but Nash's defense was just horrible on whoever he guarded and they worked him all night. If he comes out and trashes Amare about his defense he needs to look in the mirror. Even though he had a good scoring night, not a good one overall for the MVP either.

Marion is really starting to concern me. He just does not seem to be himself. I don't know if he is hurt or just doesn't give a shit. He half asses free throws and except for dunks and couple of good games shooting the 3 his shot has been horrible all year. It really doesn't make sense for a guy potentially trying to get a new contract this off season.

Something is just not right.

Nice analysis. Agree about why Amare could not get the stops (there was nobody around to help him).

Agree about Marion too. Sometimes he almost plays like he does not care. If he really wants to be traded, I wish Kerr would do it ASAP and get someone who really wants to play hard consistently.

Disagree about Nash. He was never a top defensive player, nor was he signed to play defense. Everyone had difficulty (impossibility?) stopping the Hornets, so you cannot single Nash out. I would, however, single Marion out for his lack of contribution tonight. When Nash calls on his team mates for their lack of effort, I think they know who he is talking about (and it's not always Amare). Nash is never without effort. It works sometimes and not at other times, but the effort is always there.

[RDM2]

Let the Nash bashing begin. Whenever the Suns lose, it is Nash's fault, even if he scores the most points.

Really?! I haven't noticed too many posters pointing the finger at him after losses.



I was specifically responsing to the comment by AZSportsfan who sounds like a Nash hater.

And your posts continue to reek of heavy Nash bias no matter what use of words you try to use to sidestep it from seeming that way.

[JackArse]

amare was doing what he was supposed to, but the rotation didn't go around when the ball went, which this was mainly barbosa, since they kept pulling marion and diaw away from middle.

[JediSkywalker]

they got lazy and unfocused after the 2nd quarter it seemed.
i like the fact that d'antoni hasn't panicked when they lose the lead and doesn't put nash back in.. and gives him his normal sub times.
but i don't know why he plays skinner in the first half, but not the second.


I wish he would panic. May be that will help him make the right change during the game. He is stubbornly locked into his rotation.

Everyone is wondering about Skinner not playing in the second half. I don't recall him falling down or anything that could cause an injury. I hope he is not injured, or we will be in trouble.

[JustWinBaby]

The Hornets have all the right ingredients to give us fits. Their shooting will give our rotating defensive scheme problems, and Chandler man- handled Amare last time. Amare has been letting opposing bigs go off on him all season, both in terms of points and rebounds.

Suns drop this one 106-102 and lose the battle on the boards by at least 12.

If we get outrebounded by 12 I guarantee a loss.

If we out rebound them we win by double digits.

If we stay within 4 rebounds it will be a close game and we have a chance.

Well we outrebounded them by two and we lost for the 2nd time this year after getting the rebounding edge, the other one was against the Warriors.

We also shot a better percentage from the filed although they made more three pointers.

We should not have lost while outrebounding a team but we lost the biggest STAT, other than the final score, they got up 18 more shots.

This is what is hard to figure in that we outrebounded them by 2 and had only 6 more turnovers.

That should only provide them 4 more shots.

We also out Blocked them 12 to 2, which obviously helped us win the shooting percentage. However I think they must have recovered the ball on 10 of those blocks and got another shot, while not counting as an offensive rebound. That is the only way they could have got close to putting up the 18 more shots.

I was jumping back and forth between the football game, great game by the way, and missed portions but saw most of the game. It seemed to me that in the first half we were staying home under the basket and secured the rebound. Midway thru the 3rd quarter we got back into that leave early crap and left Amare to block the shot and recover the ball. Several times he blocked shots with no one to help and the New Orleans player picked up the garbage and put it in.
Marion stunk it up and Boris while having a few nice moments still is not getting done what needs to get done. Until Kerr kicks D'Antoni in the nuts and plays Skinner more with Amare we will continue this struggle. We did not lose this game becuase Raja was not there, they didn't have David West.

This is not going to favorable to many of you but Nash's defense was just horrible on whoever he guarded and they worked him all night. If he comes out and trashes Amare about his defense he needs to look in the mirror. Even though he had a good scoring night, not a good one overall for the MVP either.

Marion is really starting to concern me. He just does not seem to be himself. I don't know if he is hurt or just doesn't give a shit. He half asses free throws and except for dunks and couple of good games shooting the 3 his shot has been horrible all year. It really doesn't make sense for a guy potentially trying to get a new contract this off season.

Something is just not right.

Nice analysis. Agree about why Amare could not get the stops (there was nobody around to help him).

Agree about Marion too. Sometimes he almost plays like he does not care. If he really wants to be traded, I wish Kerr would do it ASAP and get someone who really wants to play hard consistently.

Disagree about Nash. He was never a top defensive player, nor was he signed to play defense. Everyone had difficulty (impossibility?) stopping the Hornets, so you cannot single Nash out. I would, however, single Marion out for his lack of contribution tonight. When Nash calls on his team mates for their lack of effort, I think they know who he is talking about (and it's not always Amare). Nash is never without effort. It works sometimes and not at other times, but the effort is always there.

I love Nash as much as anyone and he is gamer, but he is human, and never a very good defender. He got worked tonight in a big way. Hell he made Pargo look like Michael Jordan for awhile. The Hornets went at Nash repeatedly, with very little resistance. He just seemed a step slow on the defensive end all night. Not bagging on the MVP just calling it like I saw it.

[scosuns]

Tough game. We had it. We lost it. Although, they did kind of win it. We just got to coasting. This is a loss that burns a lot. We have to win these games.

On a side note, happy to see Banks get time once again due to Bell not playing. Banks played ok and hopefully sees minutes like he did tonight, or at least close to.

[JackArse]

they got lazy and unfocused after the 2nd quarter it seemed.
i like the fact that d'antoni hasn't panicked when they lose the lead and doesn't put nash back in.. and gives him his normal sub times.
but i don't know why he plays skinner in the first half, but not the second.


I wish he would panic. May be that will help him make the right change during the game. He is stubbornly locked into his rotation.

Everyone is wondering about Skinner not playing in the second half. I don't recall him falling down or anything that could cause an injury. I hope he is not injured, or we will be in trouble.



he shouldn't be, he did this same thing last game , just didn't play him in the second half for some reason.

banks didn't do anything the 2nd half. marion had a bad game offensively. i think that nash gave up on the rest of the team a little early though, he just started shooting rather than letting amare do his thing.

amare looks to be getting a bit of the 04 look back. had a couple of nice moves driving in, and seems to be finishing more often now when fouled.

[JediSkywalker]

Tom Chambers said in the post game show that Banks deserves to play more minutes, or something of that sort. I was one of his biggest critics but he has really improved this season. I wish Dantoni was watching. I am afraid that when Raja returns, Banks will be sent back to the bench until someone else gets injured. The Suns could easily use a 9-man rotation.

[JackArse]

i liked what banks did in the first half.. based on that.. i'd agree..

but the 2nd half.. he did nothing. cept have a couple of fouls.. one of the fouls was a stupid call, but it is what it is..

[BobbyDogg]

Theyre definitely hungrier at this point and we got outcoached in the 2nd half which kills me cuz ByronScott isnt that great a coach.

I never have held Byron Scott in high regard either. But as great as Chris Paul and with how well David West is developing, I think credit still has to be given to Scott, who, along with Nate McMillan, are the early frontrunners for COY.


The Suns are bored with the regular season. The same as the Spurs.

Well 1) the Spurs are injured 2) they've always been a 2nd half team. I wouldn't worry about them. I'd worry about my own team.


It`s all about the post season and our team has finally figured this out!

That's a dangerous and flawed mentality. True, the regular season isn't everything, and post season is what is the real prize for this team. But just as the regular season can be overvalued, I think you can undervalue it as well. To say after every loss, "who cares, it is just the regular season" is silly at best.


Give NO and especially Chris Paul their due.

WORD.


Banks had the hot hand, and he played pretty good defense against Chris Paul. Why was he not used more?

Here's where I get mad at D'Antoni. Boris played like butt the entire season and repeatedly is run back out there for major minutes. If Banks even got half of that latitude, both he and the team would be better for it, IMHO. Banks deserves more of a chance because he actually worked on his shot in the offseason. He put in the time. Give him a chance. A REAL CHANCE.

Why Brian Skinner didn't play more is beyond me. That was a mistake that I hope coach learns from. Another lesson: Don't play a lineup that includes Nash-Banks-Barbosa. No matter what you think, that isn't exactly KJ-Nash-Kidd.


BTW why is Paul Westphal helping the Mavs win? How about helping his old team? Dantoni could use a little brain.

The defense is questionable at best and you want to bring in Westphal? Wow.

FINAL POINT (a slight rant):


Bunch of f------ whiners win we lose or win.

You want to talk about whining? How about all the whining that was going on about the unfair schedule whith the thousands of road games? :roll: WAH WAH WAH WAH David Stern hates us WAH WAH WAH! First the Suns played some pretty bad teams on the road. Secondly, why not get the bulk of the road games over now, and have more home games down the stretch? THIRD, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT PLAYING AT HOME WHEN THE SUNS DROP ONE TO THE ROCKETS, GET ANNIHILATED BY THE LAKERS, get blown out in the 1st quarter by the SONICS, and drop one tonight against the Hornets. Geez.

The Suns have work to do, the sky isn't falling, the team isn't doomed, but it is OK to point out areas where they need to improve. Those that don't care about the regular season should just leave and come back for the playoffs. If the regular season is so irrelevant, why even talk about it?

That is all.

Well said, INF.

I guess as far as some are concerned, NOTHING that the Suns do is wrong, it's that they just don't care. Their SO good that they can afford to be out-rebounded and out hustled in 90 percent of their games, even though, of course, these same things have been the achilles heel for this team for about 40 years and never seems to get fixed.

May the lord have mercy on your soul if you point out the flaws. That means your not a fan.
Tsk Tsk.

Suns were out played and out coached tonight, plain and simple.

[JackArse]

btw, espn has this loss as one of their top stories again, whereas if we won, it'd be hidden in the corner. hehe.

[Superbone]

Ouch. I feel like someone just punched me in the crotch.

You and me both. It's tough when it felt like we were in control for most of the game and then to lose it at the end. It seems like things went downhill starting with Diaw not finishing the 3 point play when Peterson went down on the court. Hey, there's nothing you can immediately do for him. Just make the layup for the and one and then check on the player.

[Antares]

I had not posted here in a while, mostly because I was frustrated with last year's loss to SA.

Anyways, I decided to post after seeing so many people freaking out over the Suns. Did it occur to anyone that its possible the Suns are merely trying different strategies? Amare only had 10 shots tonight, meaning they were probably trying to rotate other players into the offense.

The regular season is a time to tweak the lineup, experiment with good strategies etc. while trying to maintain a good record and I believe the Suns have done that so far. I think that its not necessary to freak out over their poor (albeit disappointing) performance right now. Just that the Suns are learning how to deal with different opponents. Obviously their strategy failed and they'll have to work on a different one. So far the Suns seem to only have one reliable strategy - feed the beast. But come playoffs time, wouldn't it be great if the Suns had an arsenal of reliable strategies?

[Mori_Chu]

I'm disappointed but not that mad about this loss. I am happy with the distribution of minutes, in the sense that nobody really played above 34. This is good. I am also very happy that Banks played, and played WELL! The guy deserves to be a permanent part of the rotation. Listen to my avatar.

We have 3 major needs on this team: a big, a backup PG, and another 3pt shooter. IMO Skinner and Banks ARE these players; we just need to use them. Banks has the potential to be the backup PG we need, as well as the missing 3pt threat we need just as much. Skinner is the big we need. In both of these guys' cases, the only thing missing is to put them on the court more and let them make an impact. I put the responsibility on Coach; he needs to work on things and figure this out.

The main thing I got mad about when watching this game was our terrible perimeter defense. How many wide-open 3s did we give them, where the player had time to literally look down at the ball, line it up in his hand, and take a full, relaxed jumpshot 3? Which of course often went in. I lost count of how many times we let them do this. Mo Pete, Peja, and Pargo got a ton of easy open 3s. Not acceptable.

But I am very concerned about the team for another reason: Health. Raja is really banged up. Grant Hill is not himself, either. Nash has a ton of nagging injuries that he is hiding the best he can. But Nash is out there at maybe 75%, and I feel bad watching him lumber around when he is obviously not fully healthy. I'm worried that our short rotation will add up to injured and tired players at the end of the year. Coach is keeping guys' minutes down, but he is not finding ways to rest players who have nagging injuries. He's playing them an amount of minutes that would be entirely reasonable if they were healthy... but they aren't. Something must change.

[OE]

As well as Banks played, I really wish we'd commit to having one of either Amare or Nash on the court at all times. Let Banks replace Nash for 15 minutes a game, take it up the court, and run an inside-out offense with Banks, Bell/Barbs, and Hill as your shooters.

Offensively, it must be noted that Shawn's strength (slashing, getting at the rim) is replicated by Grant, who does a number of other things in addition on the offensive end. Marion really is absolutely useless to us on that side unless his outside J is falling (which can be taken away because of the awkward form) or until the ball goes up for the rebound.

If we continue to lose to top teams like this, there's no reason we shouldn't be considering a Marion for Dalembert trade. They'd have to throw in a contract, Kevin Ollie for instance (expiring). Honestly, I think it would make us tougher, fix a lot of problems, and perhaps improve chemistry (with scoring roles being more defined). I know it's blasphemous to suggest trades around here, but I bet Kerr's thinking along similar lines.

Other than the dissolution from 3Q on, I was encouraged by tonight's game. In the second quarter, we were really flowing. Banks got into it and deserves more time. He's earned it. Period. Diaw played harder and well at the same time, though he faltered again with his characteristic lack of toughness in the second half. We didn't look too bad. We simply needed to give Amare the ball. Give Amare the ball. Give Amare the ball. Give him the ball. I don't care if Tyson Chandler gets one solid block on him, keep giving him the ball. When he so chooses, let him hold the ball so he can consider the defense - this would keep him from making some of those impulse decisions that often result in him getting charges or getting trapped. I feel this happens because, in D'Antoni's system, Amare knows that if he does not score immediately, the ball will stop going to him. I have a solution to this: give Amare the ball.

Anyways, don't get so down guys, we showed some pretty good signs tonight, despite the troubling trend. Buck up.

[Andy_S]

Ouch. I feel like someone just punched me in the crotch.

You and me both. It's tough when it felt like we were in control for most of the game and then to lose it at the end. It seems like things went downhill starting with Diaw not finishing the 3 point play when Peterson went down on the court. Hey, there's nothing you can immediately do for him. Just make the layup for the and one and then check on the player.

Yeah, that play both made me love and hate Diaw at the same time. I like that our guys aren't Artests or Fortsons, who would see a man laying on the ground and take the easy dunk in such a way as to land on his neck. But come on, just toss the ball in the basket on your way over to help him out. Don't NOT help him, just put the ball in on the way. Nobody in history has had an easier shot. It'll take an extra tenth of a second, which the guy on the floor won't even notice.

Argh.

[Andy_S]

Mori, I'll give you Skinner -- but this?


Banks has the potential to be the backup PG we need, as well as the missing 3pt threat we need just as much.

Banks is better than most everyone in the world thought last year, but don't you think it's a bit early to go quite this far? The best I see coming from Banks is raising his stock enough to make someone else consider him in a trade next offseason. Until then, he can play when needed, but I will never expect anything great from him.

[OE]

Anyways, I decided to post after seeing so many people freaking out over the Suns. Did it occur to anyone that its possible the Suns are merely trying different strategies? Amare only had 10 shots tonight, meaning they were probably trying to rotate other players into the offense.

I think it obvious that this is not what is happening. We play the same players every night the same number of minutes. We give the ball to Nash or to Barbs, never to Marion; we sometimes try going to Diaw and it doesn't work; we sometimes go to Amare and it does. Occasionally, we let Grant handle the ball. We haven't seen Marks or Tucker attempt a meaningful shot and it seems that Banks and Pike have been paraded only occasionally to pacify their frustration. Most importantly, we always always run the high pick and roll, and it's become less effective over the years, perhaps because it's our only play. That's the system. No big secret.

To say we're experimenting on offense is like saying the Roman Catholic Church is considering alternative theories of metaphysics. We have D'Antoni; they have the Pope. Same business. Except that the Roman Catholic Church doesn't engage in an annual competition which decides if there is, in fact, a God.

[sunsdotcom]

Yes I have! The Suns are bored with the regular season. The same as the Spurs. Last time I checked we have the same record. And the years we had the better one they won the Championship.

It`s all about the post season and our team has finally figured this out!

yes, that is a possibility. players find themselves getting bored playing against minnesota or miami. the solution to that is simple: play banks, tucker and marks more against inferior opponents. it's the regular season folks, it's an 82 game marathon. after 4 games in 5 nights, players sometimes lose interest and focus when playing teams below their level. at least with marks, tucker, and especially banks, they're hungrier and eager to play when given the opportunity. i don't worry about them commiting mistakes on the court, i want their energy (vs. "weak teams".)

AND i don't mind if we never see banks again in the playoffs, but at least play him in the regular season. who knows, he might surprise you this time around with a more competent play.

[Nate]

First, after just watching the game, I agree that especially the third quarter lineups didnt make any sense. The Suns/D'Antoni got away from what worked for them in the first half and got punished.

Second, a major reason for losing could very well be our minute distribution in contrast to the minutes played by the Hornets starters. Paul played the full 48 min, Stojakovic 43, Peterson 39 and Chandler 38. Even if the Suns would have won, I dont know what would have happened here with Nash playing a full game on the second leg of a back to back.

Third, where was Shawn tonight. Very disappointing performance.

Fourth, Diaw and Banks played well, but Skinner needs to see more minutes.

Fifth, since some wondered about the disparity in field goals attempted, the Suns had 12 more free throws and 10 more blocked shots than the Hornets, most of whom went right back to the Hornets.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

D'A is a complete asshat...Skinner, 7 minutes...and we got killed on the offensive glass...wow, that's a surprise...frack...

[Vladimir_Taltos]

"how come our million dollar genius coaches cant??"

It's easier for D'Antoni to stand there in his nice suit, arms crossed, with a peeved look ... sorta a like a maitre 'd who's pissed at his wait staff, but can't fire anyone because they are related to the owner.

Quote of the month! Fire his arse...its time...

VT

[Vladimir_Taltos]

"Bunch of fucking whiners win we lose or win. This team is waiting for the playoffs so STFU and get ready when they roll around!"

Eloquent. Incisive.
You'll have a great future painting address numbers on a sidewalk, or similar skilled profession ...

Laz gets the runner up for Quote of the Month with this beaut! ROFLMFAO!

[Vladimir_Taltos]

I'm about ready to take a ball pean hammer to the side of D'Antoni's head - Why the fuck did Skinner get ZERO run in the 2nd half?

And the Answer is...Because D'A is an asshat? :)

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Out coached by Byron? Out played by NO? Yeppers.

Yep...see, coach is also a VERB, not just a title Mikie...as in "...to coach..."...as in to frakking do something with thought while being a 'coach.'

D'A = ASSHAT

[Wormwood]

I'm about a disgusted as I ever have been with the Suns after last night.

1. Blowing big leads

2. Falling once again to a playoff team. Right now, based on our performance against the top 8 teams in the west, there's no way we make it out of the 1st round.

3. No effort. We didn't even attempt to interfere with their three point shooting. The Hornets got wide open looks at threes all night while Suns players stood around immobile as statues 10 feet away, not even lunging at them or trying to waive a hand in their faces.

4. Bad coaching. WTF was Amare doing showing on all the high pick and rolls? He can't cover guys out there, he only sets himself up to pick up fouls, and it left the interior wide open. We also played our usual switching college style defense, which led to all those open threes the way I knew it would. Nash sat way too long, even as the lead was slipping away. Brian Skinner was also our top +/- guy last night... and he saw only 7 minutes. There's no flexibility in our rotation, and it's killing us because we don't try to work match ups.

5. If we're as done as we look at the moment, it'll be a 5 year rebuilding process to rid ourselves of bad contracts and build up young guys via the draft, since we have no draft picks and tons of bloated contracts.

[wpmiller42]

I actually thought the effort was there last night, though I thought we got a little bit out-sized on the boards. I completely agree that Skinner should have been given much more minutes last night.

[CharlesV]

You'll have a great future painting address numbers on a sidewalk, or similar skilled profession ...

Weird, I got the same exact thing from a fortune cookie at Pei Wei the other night. I just figured there was something lost in the translation. I am hoping that sidewalk painting is a very honorable job in China.

.

It used to be that the Suns style was built for the regular season, but the defensive ineptness caught up with them in the playoffs. Now, it seems that the Suns aren't even built for the regular season. I know we have been flirting on and off with the best record in the West, but we are only 2 up on the Lakers and 4 up on GS in the Pac West.

At some point, the Suns have got to figure out how to play defense for the entire game. Whether it be a total philosophy change on the coaches part or personnel changes, it has to be done.

So far, nothing this team has done has given me any indication that they can even win a playoff round, much less a title. I still think that as the season goes along, they will somehow get right. But for now I am totally underwhelmed with their performance.

[JustWinBaby]

{So far, nothing this team has done has given me any indication that they can even win a playoff round, much less a title. I still think that as the season goes along, they will somehow get right. But for now I am totally underwhelmed with their performance.}

Word

I think all of us are in the same boat. Hopefully they figure it out.

Go Suns

[desertcoast]

4. Bad coaching. WTF was Amare doing showing on all the high pick and rolls? He can't cover guys out there, he only sets himself up to pick up fouls, and it left the interior wide open.

Directly after one of these instances, I noticed Grant Hill pulled Amare aside and gave him some pointers on how to use his arms on those high picks ( he and Hill were getting all tied up with each other while working those).
It was a real clusterf*ck, and I was happy to see Hill take time in the middle of the game to coach Amare on how to handle that.

But....
why the hell is Hill having to coach this kind of defensive 101 stuff midgame?

One plus i noticed on a related note: I saw more on-court communication between our players on defensive rotations last night. It didn't work :wink:....but it's a positive development.

[CharlesV]

But....
why the hell is Hill having to coach this kind of defensive 101 stuff midgame?

Because, again, if we just made some of our shots, we would have won.

Best Regards,

Mike D'Antoni

[ShelC]

I like that Amare steps out on the pick and rolls. Thats the true sign of whether a team is well coached defensively. For a big, pick and roll defense is all about effort. The lazy ones dotn want to step out to 25 feet because it means hustling back to the paint to defend the bigs thats rolled to the basket. If they flash out, getting the right angle with their arms out denying passing lanes or blocking the offensive guards vision (or even better, turning them back from where they came from), then the guard cant make the pass or cant see his teammate rolling ot hte basket. Theres also the chance the guard is now 26-28ft from the basket and has to reset the offense. But if Amare is going to step out half assed just because the coaches want him to, and then jog back to the paint with no urgency, then we get burned on the pick and roll, especially if the help isnt in position to take a charge. This happened last night late in the game, with amare getting caught too long on the perimeter, Chandler rolling and getting the 2hand thunder dunk. Barbosa wasnt there in time and amare looked at him like, "Why arent you there?" ITs a team concept tho.

[JediSkywalker]

Another of DA's trite remarks after a loss:

Suns Head Coach Mike D'Antoni

(On the end of the game): “They made nice shots. They made big plays. We didn’t make the big plays. Chris Paul was good tonight. He was really good. We out shoot them, we out shoot them from the foul line, we did a lot of things it just wasn’t enough. Mo Peterson seemed to hit about everything. When he had an opportunity he took advantage of it. You have to give them credit.”

(On the Hornets performance): “We ran into a nice team tonight. They played well. They just kept doing it and doing it and doing it until somebody got a little tired of running around. Give them credit they did a heck of a job. They did a good job. They won the game. They came out and made the big plays, big shots and big passes. They came up with big stops and big steals and you have to give them credit they came in here and won the game.”

The Suns got their as^es handed on a platter in the 4th Q. Dantoni is as complacent as ever. I am sick and tired of his nonchalance. He needs to publicly accept his mistakes that cost the Suns the game, after leading going into the 4th Q.

Every time the Suns lose a game they should have won, I expect them to make a turn around and get back on track to win. I am not seeing it this year.

[Mori_Chu]

Banks is better than most everyone in the world thought last year, but don't you think it's a bit early to go quite this far? The best I see coming from Banks is raising his stock enough to make someone else consider him in a trade next offseason. Until then, he can play when needed, but I will never expect anything great from him.

Banks has been a completely different player this year. If you haven't seen it, you haven't been paying attention. He is a legitimate contributor, and if we aren't playing him, we are wasting him.

I will even go so far as to say that I wouldn't want to unload Banks for essentially nada even if we could trade him. I think we should play the guy and make him a permanent part of our rotation. He is white hot from 3 and his D is great. This guy is exactly what we need. Coach just needs to see past his biases and what he saw last season. Banks is ready to play.

[JediSkywalker]

Dantoni's biases are costing the Suns wins. He keeps banging his head on the same wall, thinking that it would crack if he keeps doing it.

About trading Bank, I actually fear that the Suns may give up the Atlanta pick just to get rid of him. Instead, he needs to be utilized. I don't see why he has to wait until Raja is injured or sick. Banks is ready to play. He has worked very hard, from what I hear. He deserves to be a part of the permanent rotation.

[SunsDevils]

I am really mad about the game last night. Marion was off, Skinner did not play enough, Amare did not get enough touches. Peja was open on half of his 3 pointers. There is absolutely no excuse for that.

Just one more point. I love Amare, but please somebody teach him how to box out. It is so annoying to watch him getting abused inside even by players like Collison. We give up too many offensive rebound, Amare can help to fix this problem.

[Antares]

Anyways, I decided to post after seeing so many people freaking out over the Suns. Did it occur to anyone that its possible the Suns are merely trying different strategies? Amare only had 10 shots tonight, meaning they were probably trying to rotate other players into the offense.

I think it obvious that this is not what is happening. We play the same players every night the same number of minutes. We give the ball to Nash or to Barbs, never to Marion; we sometimes try going to Diaw and it doesn't work; we sometimes go to Amare and it does. Occasionally, we let Grant handle the ball. We haven't seen Marks or Tucker attempt a meaningful shot and it seems that Banks and Pike have been paraded only occasionally to pacify their frustration. Most importantly, we always always run the high pick and roll, and it's become less effective over the years, perhaps because it's our only play. That's the system. No big secret.

To say we're experimenting on offense is like saying the Roman Catholic Church is considering alternative theories of metaphysics. We have D'Antoni; they have the Pope. Same business. Except that the Roman Catholic Church doesn't engage in an annual competition which decides if there is, in fact, a God.
But isn't what you describing exactly what I was saying? That they were trying different strategies that didn't work. They gave the ball to Amare a few times, but also had situations where the ball was given (as you pointed out) Diaw, Marion etc. that failed, so they'll have to regroup. My point is that perhaps this was an experimental game, and that there's no reason for the fans to be worried.... yet.

[v9]

Just one more point. I love Amare, but please somebody teach him how to box out. It is so annoying to watch him getting abused inside even by players like Collison. We give up too many offensive rebound, Amare can help to fix this problem.

He's a lot better than he used to be...boxed out KT nearly every time I saw.

[Uncle_Gene]

You're all wrong, this loss doesn't count because raja didn't play.

Peja didn't play in the 1st meeting and David West (a guy who could win Most Improved Player) didn't play lastnight.

The loss COUNTS !!!!!!!!!!

[BobbyDogg]

They were getting the ball to Amare early and it was frustrating the hell out of Chandler. Then, Amare picked up a foul and was taken out of the game for what seemed like forever and that allowed Chandler to get going.

Mike D thought a smaller lineup would really do the trick and continued to use Marion even though he was almost totally ineffective in the game.

Kerr needs to realize that this lineup needs to be tweaked and get some help in toughness.

[FrontRowSun]

Our coach is not as good as advertised.

If we go out in the first or second round this year expect Kerr to purge the roster. Not all, but it might not be pretty. We know that this is not his type of basketball, and Sarver will back up his boy.

[JediSkywalker]

Our coach is not as good as advertised.

If we go out in the first or second round this year expect Kerr to purge the roster. Not all, but it might not be pretty. We know that this is not his type of basketball, and Sarver will back up his boy.

Dantoni will be the first to be purged. The Suns will still be stuck with Diaw and Banks, unless they can be sold as a package, with a high draft pick or a top player.

[AlanS]

I'm late to the party on discussing the game, but I do have some comments to offer below. They might add a different light on things, i don't know. Like everyone, I am unhappy with this game.

[1] This game was both disappointing and disgusting.

I was disappointed because i thought the Suns would do better. After playing a number of good teams on the road, and losing by close margins, I thought the Suns would come out of this game making a statement. But the statement they made is not what any Suns fan would want to hear.

The Hornets have now beaten the Suns without Peja in one game, and West in another. Both games were close, but the Hornets won both. I can only come to one conclusion: right now, the Hornets are the better team. That doesn't make it fun looking forward to the playoffs.

[2] The thing that had me disgusted was the horrid, awful, sloppy, lousy perimeter defense, especially in the second half. I can't think of a more sorry display of perimeter 'D' this season, or anytime. Among the low-lights:

• Opposing teams continue to take advantage of Nash's defense, or lack thereof. Jannero Pargo is an NBA journeyman, but he fired Nash up on outside jumpers several times during the game, and Nash seemed defenseless to stop it. Pargo wound up 8/12 from the field, with 2/4 from the arc, and 19 pts. That hurt bad.

• After the half, one of the announcers said that D'Antoni feft that neither team played the pick and roll well. But the Suns took their lack of defense against the two-man game to a whole new level of futility.

Constantly, Chris Paul ran his man off a pick, and the result was that a Hornet would get set-up for a wide-open jumper... and I mean wide-open. Several times, Hornet players would get the ball and hesitate, waiting to see if a Suns player was going to run at them... and nothing happened. Invariably, the NO player wound making the shot, often a 3PTer.

Against lesser teams that lack NO's shooting game, the Suns could get away with this kind of careless defense. But that won't do against a good team like NO.

• The Hornets also took good advantage of defensive mis-matches. The worst case was Barbosa on Peja. The two were matched up several times in the second half, and as with Nash, Leandro was defenseless against the much taller Hornet.

ALL TOLD, the Hornets just rocked the Suns from the outside in, not the inside out, as most teams do. It was a sorry sorry sight.

> This game illustrated why Raja Bell is such an important guy on this team. I myself think Bell's defense is over-rated, and I don't see how he made first-team All NBA Defensive team. But no doubt, he would have been a lot of help last night. He certainly could not have done any worse than the rest of the team.

[3] I don't know what it is about Marion and the Hornets, but this is the second game against them where he has been poor offensively. As has been the case this season, he blew one or two lay-ups, and then, went 1 for 2 in several FT situations. For the season, Shawn is shooting just 66% from the line - and this is a guy with a career 80% FT average. If the Suns are going to beat this team, ever, Shawn needs to get good and busy. And he needs to start really really practicing his foul shooting.

[4] I noticed that again, D'Antoni went to a relatively recent rotation strategy: Grant Hill is playing the start of the 4th qtr with the subs, and then rests in the mid/late 4th qtr, while Diaw plays with the starters. I don't know if I like this strategy, but in this game, I didn't think it worked to the Suns' benefit.

I think the Suns really missed having another scorer in the game at the end. Diaw did make a couple of scores in the latter part of the 4th qtr, true. But the offense seemed stagnant at the end.

Part of this was the way that Diaw is used. You could see in the 4th qtr that the Hornets were basically playing a zone-type defense, where they were clogging guys around the lane to prevent Nash from penetrating to the basket and setting up Amare. This left Boris open for jump shots - but Boris' outside shot has been way off this season. One time Boris took a 3pter from the corner and missed badly; it played right into the Hornets' hands. Another time, he had a wide open look from the arc, hesitated, and passed-off - which resulted in a 3-second call on Amare. This was Boris at his worst, and highlights his problems meshing with the starting unit.

The thing is, this was one of Boris' best offensive nights overall. He was 4/6 from the field, 3/3 from the line, and had 3 rebs and 4 assists in 32 minutes. He was very effective against the Hornets' small-ball rotation. I would rather have seen Boris post-up every time down court near the end, and force the Hornets' players to adjust. But the Suns' main play in crunch time is the Nash and Amare two-man game, and when that didn't work, the Suns seemed to get discombobulated. That's where having Hill available to break down defenses would have helped while the Suns' lead was slipping away.

[5] There are other comments I could make, but I've rambled enough. My main thing here is to say that I hope D'Antoni, the coaches, and the players look at this game and again, and take their defensive deficiencies to heart. This game was winnable, and poor defense caused it to be a loss.

I know D'Antoni likes to go light on practice, but from what I see, this teams needs a LOT of time in the gym to work on the 'D'. If D'Antoni doesn't suggest that, then one of the players - or a lot of the players - should do so. If this sh*t doesn't start getting fixed, more disappointment is sure to follow.

[INFORMER]

We did not lose this game becuase Raja was not there, they didn't have David West.

I'm glad someone pointed this out. We cry an awful lot about not being healthy and/or missing key players to excuse par/subpar performances. The Hornets were missing their second best player and still got a road victory versus (what the Suns media was touting as) the best team in the west.

Give credit when credit is due . . .


I guess as far as some are concerned, NOTHING that the Suns do is wrong, it's that they just don't care.

Well Bobbydogg, I think we just have a problem with finding the right balance. Some people are too critical of the Suns, while others are not critical enough.


Amare only had 10 shots tonight, meaning they were probably trying to rotate other players into the offense.

WHAT?! Antares, the Suns have gone the whole season getting everyone involved and limiting Amare's touches. It has only been in the last 4-5 games that they hvae finally started to FEED THE BEAST. And it worked. Now, for some reason, they reverted back.

[Shabazz]

A few late thoughts:

- I thought we lost this game when we made a concerted effort to get Marion involved offensively in the 3rd quarter and he didn't deliver. I originally thought the whole "the ball finds energy" mantra was BS, but that really seemed to be the case in the 1st half. Unfortunately, it seems that at halftime the coaches noticed that Shawn was invisible from the stat-sheet and we went away from the "energy" in an effort to spark Marion's game. I'm not blaming Marion, just saying that if he wasn't having a good game, so be it, let's just stick with what's working.

- Nobody has brought this up yet, but did anyone else notice Amare covering MoPete for most of the 2nd half. WTF was that? Amare wasn't really even in foul trouble, why couldn't he continue covering chandler?

- To all those saying to relax because we're 2nd in the west, it should be noted that we're only 2.5 games up from being 7th in the west. We're one 3-game losing streak away from being overtaken in the standings by LA, NO, DAL and DEN. Is it OK to be worried when we're in 7th place?

[AlanS]

WHAT?! Antares, the Suns have gone the whole season getting everyone involved and limiting Amare's touches. It has only been in the last 4-5 games that they hvae finally started to FEED THE BEAST. And it worked. Now, for some reason, they reverted back.


A few late thoughts:

- I thought we lost this game when we made a concerted effort to get Marion involved offensively in the 3rd quarter and he didn't deliver. I originally thought the whole "the ball finds energy" mantra was BS, but that really seemed to be the case in the 1st half. Unfortunately, it seems that at halftime the coaches noticed that Shawn was invisible from the stat-sheet and we went away from the "energy" in an effort to spark Marion's game. I'm not blaming Marion, just saying that if he wasn't having a good game, so be it, let's just stick with what's working.

I agree that the (failed) attempts to create scoring opportunities for Shawn cost the Suns some momentum, but let's be sure we understand how the Suns lost this game.

They scored 113 pts, and shot 53.2% from the field. That should be enough to beat anybody. Amare didn't get a lot of shot attempts, but Steve was 9/14 from the field, Barbosa was 11/19, Banks was 4/6. The Suns were winning the game based on the play of the guards.

They lost the game based on their horrible defense of the Hornets' shooters.

It seems to me that going to Amare at the end was part of the problem. The Hornets basically zoned up around the lane, making it hard for the Nash/Amare two-man game to get going. Meanwhile, the Hornets repeatedly went to perimeter pick-and-rolls that freed their shooters for wide-open shots... if only the Suns had that kind of attack in their arsenal when opponents clog up the middle. Or... how about using Grant Hill to go one-on-one? Isn't that one of the things the Suns hoped he could do?

[Shabazz]

They lost the game based on their horrible defense of the Hornets' shooters.

Fair enough. I'll rephrase and say that our botched attempts at getting Marion involved were more of a turning point as opposed to the reason we lost. Our perimeter defense was awful. Maybe it had something to do with Amare covering MoPete.


It seems to me that going to Amare at the end was part of the problem. The Hornets basically zoned up around the lane, making it hard for the Nash/Amare two-man game to get going. Meanwhile, the Hornets repeatedly went to perimeter pick-and-rolls that freed their shooters for wide-open shots... if only the Suns had that kind of attack in their arsenal when opponents clog up the middle. Or... how about using Grant Hill to go one-on-one? Isn't that one of the things the Suns hoped he could do?

Going to Amare couldn't have been the problem because we didn't go to Amare.

And not only do we have that play in our arsenal, that play IS our arsenal. High screen roll with Amare, good spacing on the wings, if Amare is open get it to him, otherwise pass to a 3-point shooter either before or after penetration. Problem is 2/3 of our wings in that scenario are usually represented by Marion, Diaw or Hill, guys who can't be counted on to consistently hit 3s.

[Antares]

Amare only had 10 shots tonight, meaning they were probably trying to rotate other players into the offense.

WHAT?! Antares, the Suns have gone the whole season getting everyone involved and limiting Amare's touches. It has only been in the last 4-5 games that they hvae finally started to FEED THE BEAST. And it worked. Now, for some reason, they reverted back.

Exactly, that's why it seemed to me that the Suns were trying alternatives to the Feed the Beast strategy. Sadly they didn't work. They'll have to work out something else. Or just continue to feed the beast.

[AlanS]

It seems to me that going to Amare at the end was part of the problem. The Hornets basically zoned up around the lane, making it hard for the Nash/Amare two-man game to get going. Meanwhile, the Hornets repeatedly went to perimeter pick-and-rolls that freed their shooters for wide-open shots... if only the Suns had that kind of attack in their arsenal when opponents clog up the middle. Or... how about using Grant Hill to go one-on-one? Isn't that one of the things the Suns hoped he could do?

Going to Amare couldn't have been the problem because we didn't go to Amare.

And not only do we have that play in our arsenal, that play IS our arsenal. High screen roll with Amare, good spacing on the wings, if Amare is open get it to him, otherwise pass to a 3-point shooter either before or after penetration. Problem is 2/3 of our wings in that scenario are usually represented by Marion, Diaw or Hill, guys who can't be counted on to consistently hit 3s.

Actually Shabazz, you and I are saying the same thing, albiet in different words. The Nash/Amare two-man game IS the Suns' bread and butter crunch time play, but it's less effective when the other guys can't space the floor. In my post above, I specifically mentioned Boris' inability to hit outside shots, and of course that goes for Marion as well.

I think the Suns need more options for instances where opponents clog the lane to prevent Nash and Amare from getting to the basket, and the outside shooting is suspect. Grant Hill is the best one-on-one option the Suns have, and I'd like to see the Suns exploit that.

One key to the Suns' growth in 04/05 was that late in the season, JJ emerged as an offensive threat who could create his own shot at crunch time. I think this year's team could benefit from that same kind of growth on the part of Hill.

[ShelC]

The Nash/Amare two-man game IS the Suns' bread and butter crunch time play

And teams know it and know how to defend against it. Thats why Paul was able to steal away the bounce pass and go the other way with it in one of our final possessions. This isnt spring of 2005.

[jed]

They were getting the ball to Amare early and it was frustrating the hell out of Chandler. Then, Amare picked up a foul and was taken out of the game for what seemed like forever and that allowed Chandler to get going.

Mike D thought a smaller lineup would really do the trick and continued to use Marion even though he was almost totally ineffective in the game.

Kerr needs to realize that this lineup needs to be tweaked and get some help in toughness.

Thank you -- I'm glad someone else saw it.

After the succes we've had the last couple weeks with going to Amare early and often, I don't know why you'd stray from that gameplan. It's inane.

[Billyjoejimbob]

They were getting the ball to Amare early and it was frustrating the hell out of Chandler. Then, Amare picked up a foul and was taken out of the game for what seemed like forever and that allowed Chandler to get going.

Mike D thought a smaller lineup would really do the trick and continued to use Marion even though he was almost totally ineffective in the game.

Kerr needs to realize that this lineup needs to be tweaked and get some help in toughness.

Thank you -- I'm glad someone else saw it.

After the succes we've had the last couple weeks with going to Amare early and often, I don't know why you'd stray from that gameplan. It's inane.


I think the other part of the game plan that bothered me was that Skinner didn't get off the bench in the second half. That seems to be a trend lately. We're getting beaten badly on the boards, so let's take out Amare or Diaw and put in Raja, or Banks. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[jed]

I agree. There's no reason Skinner shouldn't be getting more run.

He'd help with a lot of our deficiencies and he's athletic enough that the KT "slows down the offense" excuse doesn't really hold up.