A Championship Is Ours - If We Rebound

[JustWinBaby]

I have thought for three years, now 4, that all we really need to do to win a Championship is to become better on the boards. It appears we have regressed rather than progressed. I offer that if we do not fix it, we are in trouble come April. I have done some in depth research on our rebounding numbers thus far into the season and there is a direct correlation IMO.

In our 9 losses how did we rebound:

1. We were outrebounded by an average of 12.3 in all of our losses. ( 49.1 vs 36.8)
2. We only outrebounded one team that we lost to, Golden State on 11/26 by 9 Boards.
3. When we have won the rebound battle we have lost only once, to Golden State.
4. In all of our losses except GS we were outrebounded between 8 for a low against NO and a high of 22 by Minnesota.

In our 22 Wins how did we rebound:

1. We were still outrebounded, but by an average of only 3.0 (45.8 vs 42.8)
2. We only outrebounded 6 Teams in our 22 wins but still got beat by double digits in 4 of our wins.
3. When we dominate the boards, which is seldom, our opponents generally, have no chance.
4. In those games where we out rebounded the opponent it generally was a blow out.
5. We can win sometimes when we are dominated (double digit deficit), 4 times it happened (Cle 11/4,SAC 11/21 & SAS 12/17 & LAC 12/28) by not very often. This is really amazing, go figure.

If I were the owner, Coach, GM Assistant Coach whatever - my priotity would be rebounding plain and simple. If we rebound we absolutely cannot be beat. If we win the rebound battle come playoff time we win a Championship plain and simple.

You can talk about chemistry, give the ball to Amare more, Raja needs to make more shots, LB needs to be a better point guard, Boris doesn't shoot enough etc etc etc, non of that crap really matters. Whatever we are doing we are doing very well except rebounding.

We score more points with less rebounds than our opponents on a regular basis. We still win a majoirty of games when we get outrebounded by small numbers. When we outrebound the opponent they have no chance, NADA.

The lack of energy issue, that is a constant complaint from Coach D and Nash, I hope is directed at our Rebounding woes. Generally rebounds are not necessarily because you are bigger, it surely helps, but because you are more agressive in going after the Ball. We have proven that we can be good on the boards but we need to be better and be pissed when we are out rebounded.

IMO that should be our goal and all players should be held accontable. That is why I have been so hard on Boris and would replace him in a heartbeat for a more reliable rebounder. I would play Skinner more minutes and I would put the forward press on PJ Brown. Someone would sit and either Skinner or PJ would be on the court for most of the 48 minutes.

This is not to put all the blame on Boris, but the position he plays should get rebounds. If he can accomplish that goal he stays, if not adios. However every position needs to rebound no one is off the hook they each have to pull down their fair share. Hell Nash has had some very good rebounding nights latley, why not LB and Raja. Everyone needs to contribute not just Amare and Shawn.

There would be a permanent Billboard placed on both sides of the door to and from the locker room "REBOUNDS EQUAL A CHAMPIONSHIP".

We are the best shooting team in the league and recently became the best shot blocking team in the league.

Why can't we be the best rebounding team in the league?

If we fix this probelm, we are your 2008 NBA CHAMPIONS, no question in my mine. It can be done with the people on board. Just do it.

Happy New Year

Go Suns

[Phoenix219]

Even if we could get a Dennis Rodman style rebounder a la the 2nd set of Bulls titles, Mike wouldn't play him anyways, because of no offense. (Hmm. I wonder how Rodman would have scored with Nash delivering the ball... goofy mother fucker.) The only hope is that Amare turns into a rebounding beast while Skinner maintains and Diaw steps up. Marion is Marion. So...its basically up to Diaw and Amare. (The two we didn't have for Game 5.... go figure...)....Diaw is improving but he needs to concentrate on rebounding, which means getting down and dirty, physical in the post, something Boris does not like to do. He MUST find a way to step up his rebounding and Amare must make it a goal of his to be league leader in rebounds. Chuck did it and was smaller than Amare. He wants to prove he's the man, well start rebounding like a madman....

[Andy_S]

While I agree that we need to rebound better, I think that your statistical analysis of our rebounding, outside of the context of anything else that we do, is highly flawed. I'd guess that we also win most games when we out-assist the other team, out-block the other team, or even out-score the other team. And you need to consider that we can't simply add rebounding to our arsenal without probably taking something else away. So, what do you want to take away?

Rebounds are important. However, they are not the holy grail. Winning a championship is not as simple as crunching some numbers and saying, "OK guys, do this!"

[OE]

I would like to see Boris concentrate on rebounding. If his shot's off, whatever. He's 6-8, quick, and he has the best vert on the team (with the possible exception of the rooks). When he's out there, tell him to chase boards. At this point, it might be his most effective utility.

[sunsdotcom]

HAHAHA... funny thread title.

[JediSkywalker]

Amare needs to consistently rebound better. He is capable of it.

Boris needs to rebound better, but he really needs to improve his shooting percentage, especially near the basket.

Rebounding has to be combined with shooting, for the Suns to win.

When they play with intensity, they have a decent percentage of rebounds.

[Ring_Wanted]

Didn't Pat Riley said it? You can't win a title without defense and rebounding. One can be lacking, but not them both.

Rebounding seems a lost cause for us, mostly due to our lack of size, and sometimes lack of effort.

Our defense, unless we play really focused, is nothing to be proud of. We need that effort Nash is demanding, but also that Bell is allowed to get healthy by D'Antoni. A week of rest for Bell could do wonders, not only for Raja, but also for Banks or whoever takes his minutes.

Of course, all that is almost useless if we can't make our 3pt shots, given how our system is currently designed.

[JustWinBaby]

While I agree that we need to rebound better, I think that your statistical analysis of our rebounding, outside of the context of anything else that we do, is highly flawed. I'd guess that we also win most games when we out-assist the other team, out-block the other team, or even out-score the other team. And you need to consider that we can't simply add rebounding to our arsenal without probably taking something else away. So, what do you want to take away?

Rebounds are important. However, they are not the holy grail. Winning a championship is not as simple as crunching some numbers and saying, "OK guys, do this!"

Alan

In all due respect I think it is that simple. Everyone seems to complicate things for this team.

A lot of folks have suggested that we made the wrong decision this summer in not trading Amare for Garnett. They suggest that Garnett is far better than Amare. That is just about the most flawed conversation on the planet. In Boston Garnett has a big playing along his side for most of the game in Perkins or Pollard. This gives Garnett a chance to roam and cause problems. Amare has Marion and Hill, while good players not the bigs that currently support both KG and Duncan in San Antonio. Boston and the Spurs are the odds on favorites to win the Larry Obrien come June. Why? Because they can rebound and defend the paint.

You mention that maybe it is because we out assist or outscore the other team is the reason why we win. How in the world would getting more rebounds than our opponents thus creating more possessions limit our number of assists and scoring. In my book they should both increase.

It really is that simplistic. We get better on the boards - we win a Championship. The best solution is with the current crew.

How many playoff games do you think we will win if our opponent gets 12 more rebounds than we do?

[JediSkywalker]

JWB is right. As it is, the Suns fast pace allows the other team to take more shots. When they have lots more offensive rebounds, they have even more shots. The Suns have just one shot (when they don't grab an offensive rebound) to score, and they don't get that many opportunities when the other team has the ball major part of the game. Based on numbers alone, it is easy to see that the Suns can be outscored easily when there is a lopsided advantage in rebounding for the other team.

When they play against average teams who can't shoot consistently and make mistakes, the Suns get away with poor rebounding. However, in the playoffs they cannot afford to. That is why it is important for them to improve their rebounding throughout the season. It has to become a part of their game.

I still maintain that rebounding alone won't get it done. They still need to shoot better, from inside and outside.

Not having a big guy at center is a major disadvantage, but it does not look like that will be corrected in Dantoni's tenure. May be after this season some changes will be made, but right now we are stuck with a small lineup. Steve Nash had said couple years ago that we have to play harder because we are smaller. Unfortunately playing harder and longer (no bench utilization) tires the team, and they are likely to rebound less when they are tired.

[ShelC]

Lets trade for Reggie Evans and see if this theory hold true....

[sehan]

JWB, agree with need for rebounds, but I don't think it is an isolated lever that we can tweak. To get more rebounds we probably have to give up something to get those rebounds. For example, if Amare wants to rebound better, he should stop helping out on penetrations and stay on his men to block out. Or on the offense forget this point center concept and stay near to basket to get position for a rebound.

I personally think more responsibility should be placed on our guards and SFs to increase the team rebound. When you are small that is - whole team swarming the board - about the only way you can effectively rebound.

In the 04-05 season, we had Q and Joe who were both great rebounder for their positions and size.

This year only way for us to get more rebounds with out loosing too much on the other facets of the game would be to play Skinner more. No way around it.

[JustWinBaby]

Lets trade for Reggie Evans and see if this theory hold true....

What a brilliant idea

A have a better one, get a heart transplant for your boy Boris.

If Boris would just rebound we a passion a lot of things would change for the better.

We have very good rebounders at our disposal.

Marion - arguably the best at his size in the history of the league
Amare - Has the tools to lead the league
Skinner - Has been very good all season
Hill - extremely capable and willing -
Nash - Not bad based on size and puts in the effort.

We need more from

LB - has quickness to get to a lot of balls - need consistent effort when not leaking ahead on break
Raja - Should be much better IMO - rarely gets many rebounds.
Boris - the most dissppointing of all - has the tools - does he really have the want?

Major changes to personell could change the other things we do well. All we really need is a change in attitude IMO. Everyone needs to rebound.

[CharlesV]

Boris - the most dissppointing of all - has the tools - does he really have the want?

Huh?

Boris Diaw is usually the best player on the court. Just ask Phil Weber, he will tell you so.

[ShelC]

Boris can definitely rebound better. I cant really expect the guards to rebound with our system. They have to leak out. Ideally, Shawn would also get more opportunities to get down court instead of having to crash the boards.

But i was being serious kinda. I really wish we could try that out. We have the TEs and could basically buy Evans' contract. If he got 15mpg a game, with his per minute rebound rate, he could be a huge help. Rebounds lead to outlet passes which lead to fast break opportunities.

[JediSkywalker]

Boris can definitely rebound better. I cant really expect the guards to rebound with our system. They have to leak out. Ideally, Shawn would also get more opportunities to get down court instead of having to crash the boards.

But i was being serious kinda. I really wish we could try that out. We have the TEs and could basically buy Evans' contract. If he got 15mpg a game, with his per minute rebound rate, he could be a huge help. Rebounds lead to outlet passes which lead to fast break opportunities.

Who will you trade for Evans?

[JustWinBaby]

Boris can definitely rebound better. I cant really expect the guards to rebound with our system. They have to leak out. Ideally, Shawn would also get more opportunities to get down court instead of having to crash the boards.

But i was being serious kinda. I really wish we could try that out. We have the TEs and could basically buy Evans' contract. If he got 15mpg a game, with his per minute rebound rate, he could be a huge help. Rebounds lead to outlet passes which lead to fast break opportunities.

Seriously if we get Evans we change a whole lot of things that we do really well. Like passing and shooting. Our offense would bog down, so even though we get more rebounds we lose too much of our strength, which is scoring.

I have great confidence that Boris will start making some of those shots if he gets his ass in gear and plays hard and gets on the boards. He probably will stop being beaten up in the press, on virtually every message board (doubt he cares) and by his teammates. The first thing Boris really needs to do is stand in front of a mirror and tell himself, there is more I can do, much more, I ain't pulling my weight.

When you say we can't expect our guards to rebound any better, I don't buy it. If Nash can rebound so can Raja and LB, especially Raja. While LB is out on the break a lot, Raja rarely is and rarely makes a pass. Quite frankly he is somewhat the invisible man once the shot goes up by our opponents. Raja is a tough cookie and has the fire to be a decent rebounder. I don't expect much from Nash, Raja and LB just a little more 1 per game would work for me. If our guards can do that, Amare continues on his mission, Boris gets his head out of his ass, things will be just fine.

[fixxxer]

Rebounding might not be the be singular factor that determines whether or not we eventually win the championship, but at this point, it is our team's biggest weakness.

Considering our rotation and style of play, the Suns will always be a poor rebounding team without completely losing identity. The idea here is to mitigate just how poor a rebounding team they shape up to be: 'quite' over 'piss' would be a huge victory.

It's unlikely that Amare, Marion, Hill or Skinner improve their respective rebounding rates drastically. Similarly Bell, Barbosa and Nash are far too perimeter oriented to be factors on the boards. When it comes to the guys mentioned, I think this has less to do with "can they rebound more?" (sure, they can) as "do they project to be significantly better rebounders as the year progresses?" (nope, I don't see it).

Sadly, the biggest varible that *could possibly* lead to improvements on the rebounding front is Boris Diaw. Almost all of Diaw's minutes comes at 4/5, and quite simply NEEDS to rebound the ball in order for the Suns not to get slaughtered on the boards in every single game. The differential between the average NBA big man's rebounding rate and Diaw's guard-like rebounding rate is the biggest factor in our rebounding woes thus far.

Diaw's passive offensive play isn't what is getting to me the most thus far this season. It's him not going hard after every rebound that has me tearing my hair out in clumps. Diaw needs to rebound.

[ShelC]

Seriously if we get Evans we change a whole lot of things that we do really well. Like passing and shooting. Our offense would bog down, so even though we get more rebounds we lose too much of our strength, which is scoring.

FWIW, i dont think evans is nearly as offensively inept as his reputation states. He cant shoot, but ive seen him make some pretty good passes from the high post. He seems to have a high bball IQ and is a damn good athlete. If we bag Boris for not doing anything at all, why wouldnt we try an Evans-type at the 4 next to Amare for a few minutes where we at least know we're getting rebounds?

For our guards, we need them to leak out. Stevie has to stay back to get the outlet pass from our big, so hes around the FT/paint area anyways. If he has a shot at the rebound he can go for it. But while hes doing that, you have to have guys down court cuz Stevies gonna run with the ball instinctively. If Raja is crashing and doesnt get the board, hes behind the play and might not get that open look from 3 or at least help spread the floor for Stevie to get into the lane. You cant have it both ways. Thats our system. If we had a slow-down, walk it up offense, you could send all 5 guys crashing.

And i crunched some numbers last night and Boris is really only about 1 rebound off his pace from 05-06 in relation to his mpg. And thats including the terrible start. I have faith.

[jed]

I don't know that we can trade for Reggie Evans or any other minor player and expect results. We'd still have a minutes issue, and guys like Amare, Skinner and Diaw (I know people are suggesting that he ride the pine full time, but I don't see it happening with all his proponents on the coaching staff) are still going to get theirs. I think we'd have to shake the rotation up a lot more to see any real results.

[ShelC]

It was really just a hypothetical. We're not trading for Evans and MikeD wouldnt play him. The perfect 5 in this system would be Camby, bar none. And that aint happenin.

[LazarusLong]

I've mentioned it before -- I think Troy Murphy would be solid with the Suns. Too bad he has a stinko contract.

[sehan]

ShelC,

I don't know if we need the guards to leak out per say. I really like our 04-05 season' s fast breaks a lot better, where the big man leak out and guards follow on the secondary break for a 3.

Yeah it is not fast LB running down the side all along, but the thing with big guys running is that it is still effective with 2 or 3 guys back defending. Plus the collapse in defense opens up the guards 3 points shots on the secondary break. I remember Joe and Q living off these secondary break 3s

Good old days.....

[scosuns]

I agree rebounding needs to go up. But, it has to be the guards rebounding. As others have said, we need Bell and Barbosa and others to at least try more. But, I don't see that happening. We have to be careful not to change our style. Although, I'm starting to believe that this team doesn't always have to run n gun. Of course it should be the main way.

[Ring_Wanted]

I also miss that dagger 3pt Q, JJ, House or TT would score for our previous teams. Those shots could really take rythm out of the opposite team, specially when we were letting them come back.

[Phoenix219]

House and TT signed for the same money and instead of Banks and Pike gives me a headache....

[SpecialSauce]

I've mentioned it before -- I think Troy Murphy would be solid with the Suns. Too bad he has a stinko contract.

I heard he got traded from the Warriors cause he couldn't run the floor well

[AlanS]

It was really just a hypothetical. We're not trading for Evans and MikeD wouldnt play him. The perfect 5 in this system would be Camby, bar none. And that aint happenin.

This is why I'm one of those guys who gets frustrated by the trade talk. 99% of these suggested trades/acquisitons will never happen, so I don't see the value in discussing them.

BUT... lots of fans like to go thru these trade scenerio discussions, so... I now go back to biting my lip whenever I see trade or acquisition talk come up.

[Wormwood]

AlanS,

Trade talk is a form of mental masturbation. You do it to kill time and fantasize. It doesn't change the fact that it can be fun for a lot of people, myself included, to imagine the what ifs, even if it's jsut stupid, as long as you realize that for the most part it's dumb.

Sort of like watching anything ever made by Michael Bay.

[Nate]

Good thing about Micheal Bay films is that you view them in a room where nobody goes to if he doesnt want to see one (who wants to see Bad Boys with his girlfriend). Thats why I advocate to have a permanent trade speculation thread on the site, it would help us out.

Heres my suggestion for the permanent-thread title about everyones trade ideas:



"My shit always works sometimes!"
Will Smith character; Bad Boys

[jed]

I don't mind trade scenarios. But it does become unproductive when it's clear the Suns aren't going to make a move or someone is suggesting a move that the team simply wouldn't make.

[JustWinBaby]

Do you really think they would not trade anyone of these three if the right deal came around to not deimate the team and get them under the salary cap?

Marion
Boris
Banks

When management has think tank sessions after losses they add fuel to the fire.

[JustWinBaby]

To Steve Kerr:

If you really want to bring a Chamionship to Phoenix you must get the personell in place to make us a better rebounding team.

Otherwise this team is one and done come playoff time.

[JediSkywalker]

It seems the Suns FO is going to have a couple of townhall meetings in the near future. They should be interesting. I think the fans are at the end of their wit at this point, with the inconsistencies of this team.

[sunsdotcom]

HAHAHA... funny thread title.

[Billyjoejimbob]

I think rebounding is something that is lacking compared to last season. If you compare last season to this season the defensive statistices are almost the same, however if you play defense the same but get less rebounds you won't be as good. That is definitely an area we miss Kurt Thomas. After a defensive stop he was sure to screen out the biggest guy to keep him from getting the rebound even if KT didn't get it himself. It doesn't matter if you are able to make defensive stops if you just give the ball right back to the other team to keep trying until they make it. I think that playing defense the way they do now and focusing on getting the rebound to try and keep teams one and done would definitely make this team scary.

[JustWinBaby]

HAHAHA... funny thread title.

You can call it funny - I don't

I have basically kept quiet and supported Coach D's rotations, however the itty bitty ball with Raja, LB and Nash on the court together may appear to work, I hate it. Not because of the players, I like them all. It just weakens us so much on rebounding and defense it is stupid.

We basically have promoted and given contracts to people in our top 7, Boris, LB and Hill that allow Nash to get more assists and us to score more. We have basically not provided any help to Amare and Shawn on the boards. Skinner is a nice player but he just isn't enough and is limited in size and ability. Boris is a 1 or a 2 trying to play a 4 or 5 role. Our crutch is always just play harder with more energy. I partially buy into that theory but we constantly get beat up on the boards by virtually everyone we play. We win becuase we shoot the ball better than anyone else. Far too many of our wins are when we shoot out of our minds. That is not always going to happen and especially come playoff time.

If we do not rebound better - there will be no Championship in PHoenix - ever.

How do we get better on the boards? Great question.

Marion's inconsistent play has been a constant since the beginning of the season. When Shawn plays with a passion, plays defense and rebounds, this team is very difficult to beat. His performances may in fact be more important to victory than either Amare or Nash, or at the very least equal.

I and others have suggested trading Marion for a lot of reasons. However, if we are a poor rebounding team whom could we get in return, to offset the loss of Shawn, probably no one.

Amare is the popular fall guy for our rebounding woes but generally does an OK job IMO, After last nights loss he made mention of everyone needs to block out on the boards. I buy into that theory and have for a very long time. The team has to rebound as a team and not just rely on Amare and Shawn to get every rebound.

Fixes

Coach D change your rotations - no more Raja, LB and Nash together

Shawn - you really need to play every night

Boris - you need to play hard more than one game a week.

Skinner - if you want another contract get your ass in gear.

Team - Block out and help the team get the rebound.

Steve Kerr - We really really need another rebounder, a back up PG would be nice, but another rebounder is the priority.

[EDC]

Does anyone have any statistics on fastbreak points this season? How do we rank compared to other teams in the NBA and our past years? It seems to me that we aren't getting as many of those easy shots as we use to. I have no basis for this though thats why I would be interested in the stats if anyone has them. I tried searching for them but couldn't find a site with them.

[Billyjoejimbob]

Does anyone have any statistics on fastbreak points this season? How do we rank compared to other teams in the NBA and our past years? It seems to me that we aren't getting as many of those easy shots as we use to. I have no basis for this though thats why I would be interested in the stats if anyone has them. I tried searching for them but couldn't find a site with them.

I don't know where to find them, but I do remember hearing or seeing that the fast break numbers are down this season. That could also be related to rebounding. If you don't get the rebound, you can't run the other way and score.

[JediSkywalker]

Every player is not strong at everything. That is why there have to be some strong defensive players who are also strong rebounders. Amare is clearly not a strong defensive player. Raja is, and Marion is when he wants to play. Trading KT was one of the worst decisions made by the Suns. The Suns don't have strong and consistent rebounders- that's where the problem is.

I heard something interesting on Doug & Wolf this morning. In spite of Amare's popularity on this board, D&W seemed to think that he is not being tough this season, compared to his rookie season and even last season. As soon as the other guy starts being tough, Amare backs out. I don't know if they are correct, but that seemed to be the case against AJ and Bynum. I do agree on one thing they said (or may be it was one of them)- Amare needs to get more rebounds, even at the cost of his points. Against Minn he had 33 points and only 6 rebounds. If he could trade in some points, the extra rebounds could result in points for the team because one of his teammates could score. I tend to agree with that theory. Of course it did not help that Marion had just 3 rebounds last night, but someone needs to step up and it has to be one of the defensive specialists; you can't expect that from little guys. If Amare is playing the center or forward, he has to be tough near the basket. I don't know if he is afraid of picking up fouls, and that's why he did not get those rebounds. It's easy to point fingers at his teammates, but he did not play strong defense, and the fouls absolutely killed any chance of the Suns winning.

The Suns are in deep trouble this year. They not only lose games, but they start pointing fingers at their teammates when they do. I am still puzzled by Marion. One night he looks fantastic, and next night it's like he is not even on the court. He did pick up some early fouls last night, but still a 3-rebound performance by him is unacceptable.

[tankosky]

rebounding IS that important.

our defense looks worse than it actually is because we never rebound. our defense-style (let teams take bad shots) would work very well IF we rebounded.

but instead we give up second opportunities like its nothing. i can't even count the times i've seen amare box out just to see the ball drop RIGHT IN FRONT of him, only for a quick guard to run by and snatch it up..

clearly, it's a lack of rebounding practice. amare is still young and clearly no one ever taught him how to be a rebounder. we have no rebounders on this team, except marion, and he's too short to get them all. the guards don't help out with the long rebounds either..

the thing is, if we're in a tough game, those are things they have to work hard on. if we're down ten, instead of running down the court when the other team puts a shot up, EVERYBODY should be looking for the rebound. THEN you run. but instead, because half our team is running down the court, the other team is looking for the offensive board, they get it and they get a very easy bucket.

they just need to rebound. its the easiest play in basketball, and probably the most valuable after scoring and there's just no excuse to be so bad at it like we are.

[JustWinBaby]

rebounding IS that important.

our defense looks worse than it actually is because we never rebound. our defense-style (let teams take bad shots) would work very well IF we rebounded.

but instead we give up second opportunities like its nothing. i can't even count the times i've seen amare box out just to see the ball drop RIGHT IN FRONT of him, only for a quick guard to run by and snatch it up..

clearly, it's a lack of rebounding practice. amare is still young and clearly no one ever taught him how to be a rebounder. we have no rebounders on this team, except marion, and he's too short to get them all. the guards don't help out with the long rebounds either..

the thing is, if we're in a tough game, those are things they have to work hard on. if we're down ten, instead of running down the court when the other team puts a shot up, EVERYBODY should be looking for the rebound. THEN you run. but instead, because half our team is running down the court, the other team is looking for the offensive board, they get it and they get a very easy bucket.

they just need to rebound. its the easiest play in basketball, and probably the most valuable after scoring and there's just no excuse to be so bad at it like we are.

EVERYBODY - is the key phrase in any discussion regarding our rebounding woes.

EVERYBODY - does not just include the players - it also includes Coach D insuring that - EVERYONE - is on a fast break with only Amare left to get the rebound.

Until this issue is fixed we will be a very nice club, but never great.

[Uncle_Gene]

This title is right up my alley.

What's freakin' new JustWinBaby ?

Another big is needed to win it all. It cracks me up how D'Antoni thinks it's always an energy issue. Focus has been an issue sometimes, other times you just need the SIZE to compete with other teams.

[JustWinBaby]

This title is right up my alley.

What's freakin' new JustWinBaby ?

Another big is needed to win it all. It cracks me up how D'Antoni thinks it's always an energy issue. Focus has been an issue sometimes, other times you just need the SIZE to compete with other teams.

Another big is needed for sure but everyone needs to rebound.

The popular guy to blame is Amare, I really don't get it. I guess we should, after all if he would have got 32 rebounds rather than 6 we would have out rebounded the Wolves. He should be expected to do that. What do ya think?

I got it. If Amare can average 30 rebounds while watching all the guards jack upt 3 pointers all night, without passing him the ball, everything wil be OK. That is if Boris is also allowed to get off the hook with only getting 4 rebounds playing the 5. Amare should never ever question any teammates energy level. They all play 110% every night.

[ShelC]

With all due respect, should we really expect Boris to rebound? We didnt sign him to do that. We're an offensive driven ballclub. If we wanted a rebounder, we'd have one. If we wanted a shotblocker, we'd have one. If we wanted a big, hulking, plodding center to take up space, we'd have one.

[JustWinBaby]

With all due respect, should we really expect Boris to rebound? We didnt sign him to do that. We're an offensive driven ballclub. If we wanted a rebounder, we'd have one. If we wanted a shotblocker, we'd have one. If we wanted a big, hulking, plodding center to take up space, we'd have one.

Shell

I hear you on Boris, he actually wants to be a point guard, I think.

However he is a 4/5 in our system and those guys have to rebound.

He cannot be left off the hook, if Amare and Shawn continue to get beat up, after all they are playing out of position as well, right?

A partial fix should be when and if Hill gets healthy enough to contribute going forward. While not a dominant rebounder he has always got his share.

What big we could possibly get that would actually play, is a great question.

[jed]

Man, I still find myself wondering what happened to that rumored deal -- Barbs/Boris/ATL pick? for Iggy/Dalembert.

That would solve a lot right now -- both for this season and beyond.

[tankosky]

Man, I still find myself wondering what happened to that rumored deal -- Barbs/Boris/ATL pick? for Iggy/Dalembert.

That would solve a lot right now -- both for this season and beyond.

hmm.

philly probably rejected it

[AlanS]

Man, I still find myself wondering what happened to that rumored deal -- Barbs/Boris/ATL pick? for Iggy/Dalembert.

That would solve a lot right now -- both for this season and beyond.

hmm.

philly probably rejected it

With the Hawks poised to make the playoffs, the ATL pick just doesn't have a lot of appeal on the trade market. The Sixers are not going to trade a potential future All-Star like Iggy for Boris, LB, and maybe the 16th or 17th pick in the draft.

[jed]

Man, I still find myself wondering what happened to that rumored deal -- Barbs/Boris/ATL pick? for Iggy/Dalembert.

That would solve a lot right now -- both for this season and beyond.

hmm.

philly probably rejected it

With the Hawks poised to make the playoffs, the ATL pick just doesn't have a lot of appeal on the trade market. The Sixers are not going to trade a potential future All-Star like Iggy for Boris, LB, and maybe the 16th or 17th pick in the draft.

True -- there is some doubt there with the pick. I still think ATL ends up in the lottery, but I'm sure some GMs are doubtful of that.

Still, I think the most attractive part of that deal for Philly is Barbs' contract. It's great when you consider his output. A lot better to them than what they'll have to pay Iggy or what they already are paying Sammy.

[JustWinBaby]

I guess the FO saw our weakness the same way as many/most of us. My bet is that our rebounding improves.

This has been our major weakness by far.

If Shaq does in fact help us improve this area, IMO there is every reason to believe we will have a long playoff run.

What do you think?

Probably just as big an issue is if Boris remains Boris and does not revert to Doris type play. His rebounding numbers and activity have been much much better as of late and this needs to continue with or without SHAQ. Boris also needs to score not just pass all night.

I also wager that STAT's numbers are going to go through the roof as well, I have plenty of company.

My only concern is that of Nash. I hope he stays agressive with his shot and does not defer to Amare and SHAQ too much. We need his points along with his assists.

[JediSkywalker]

My only concern is that of Nash. I hope he stays agressive with his shot and does not defer to Amare and SHAQ too much. We need his points along with his assists.

Nash only does what the team needs. If the team does not NEED the points it is not going to get it. If it does, he will make the shot.

[JediSkywalker]

Man, I still find myself wondering what happened to that rumored deal -- Barbs/Boris/ATL pick? for Iggy/Dalembert.

That would solve a lot right now -- both for this season and beyond.

hmm.

philly probably rejected it

With the Hawks poised to make the playoffs, the ATL pick just doesn't have a lot of appeal on the trade market. The Sixers are not going to trade a potential future All-Star like Iggy for Boris, LB, and maybe the 16th or 17th pick in the draft.

True -- there is some doubt there with the pick. I still think ATL ends up in the lottery, but I'm sure some GMs are doubtful of that.

Still, I think the most attractive part of that deal for Philly is Barbs' contract. It's great when you consider his output. A lot better to them than what they'll have to pay Iggy or what they already are paying Sammy.


I don't think the Hawks are poised to make the playoffs. They could start dropping, and other teams that are not far behind can start winning. Philadelphia, NJ, Indiana and even Chicago could push them down. The eastern conference is so pathetic that only 5 teams have winning records. That makes it a bit harder, but it is not impossible to see the Hawks in the lottery. If they make it, hopefully they will draw #1 this time.

The guaranteed lottery teams are- Miami, Minnesota, Memphis and NY. Seattle is improving and hopefully Milwaukee will too (although the latter seems tough). Three spots are still open. There is hope.

[BlaCkAdDa]

iggy trades make me sick, we could have DRAFTED him ... ARGHHHHHHHHHH!

[JediSkywalker]

We could have drafted Rajon Rondo for ourselves instead of for the Celtics. He would have been a great understudy for Steve Nash, and ready to fill in whenever needed. He is just 21, so he has plenty of years left, and he is playing great.

[JustWinBaby]

My only concern is that of Nash. I hope he stays agressive with his shot and does not defer to Amare and SHAQ too much. We need his points along with his assists.

Nash only does what the team needs. If the team does not NEED the points it is not going to get it. If it does, he will make the shot.

Nashfan

If Nash were perfect he would be wearing a couple or three rings by now. He has to step it up just like everyone else does. I would bet he would say the same thing.

Anytime anyone even suggests that Nash can improve his play you act like he is the 2nd coming and he never ever does anything wrong. That is just not true.

He is very very good, but he ain't perfect, just a whole lot better than most.

Why in the world would you not want the best percentage jump shooter in the league to take a few more shots?

Even the new guy in town has said the same thing and he has not played a minute with us yet.

If you haven't noticed we generally struggle when he doesn't look for his shot, unless Bell and LB are on fire.

[v9]

I don't think the Hawks are poised to make the playoffs. They could start dropping, and other teams that are not far behind can start winning. Philadelphia, NJ, Indiana and even Chicago could push them down. The eastern conference is so pathetic that only 5 teams have winning records. That makes it a bit harder, but it is not impossible to see the Hawks in the lottery. If they make it, hopefully they will draw #1 this time.

Hawks have a serious streak of road games coming up. Time for them to fall apart again?

[Superbone]

I don't think the Hawks are poised to make the playoffs. They could start dropping, and other teams that are not far behind can start winning. Philadelphia, NJ, Indiana and even Chicago could push them down. The eastern conference is so pathetic that only 5 teams have winning records. That makes it a bit harder, but it is not impossible to see the Hawks in the lottery. If they make it, hopefully they will draw #1 this time.

Hawks have a serious streak of road games coming up. Time for them to fall apart again?

Seems like JJ has already started to. I haven't looked recently but his stats were really on the decline last I checked.

[JediSkywalker]

My only concern is that of Nash. I hope he stays agressive with his shot and does not defer to Amare and SHAQ too much. We need his points along with his assists.

Nash only does what the team needs. If the team does not NEED the points it is not going to get it. If it does, he will make the shot.

Nashfan

If Nash were perfect he would be wearing a couple or three rings by now. He has to step it up just like everyone else does. I would bet he would say the same thing.

Anytime anyone even suggests that Nash can improve his play you act like he is the 2nd coming and he never ever does anything wrong. That is just not true.

He is very very good, but he ain't perfect, just a whole lot better than most.

Why in the world would you not want the best percentage jump shooter in the league to take a few more shots?

Even the new guy in town has said the same thing and he has not played a minute with us yet.

If you haven't noticed we generally struggle when he doesn't look for his shot, unless Bell and LB are on fire.


Where did I say he was perfect? He has missed many shots, particularly this year he has really struggled with his shots, but he makes key shots more often than not. He prefers passing the ball, that's just his style, but if he feels that the team needs points, or if it is impossible to pass, he takes a shot. I don't see that changing significantly. Passing the ball/spreading the floor is the Suns' strength. Why should we go away from it? The Suns should do what has worked for them. Having more shooters on the team will certainly help. Having a half court offense, with our new center, will help add another dimension (if it works) but trying to become a completely different team will not help.

BTW, why does the new guy in town who has not taken a shot for us become like God, - one who knows everything?

[Billyjoejimbob]

BTW, why does the new guy in town who has not taken a shot for us become like God, - one who knows everything?

He doesn't know everything, but he probably knows more than you.

[darrkin]

Because he is Shaq and has 4 rings. We are in good, very big hands with Shaq. He's got weaknesses like everyone else, but hes the type of dominating presence you want on your side.

[ShelC]

He doesn't know everything, but he probably knows more than you.

He knows how to win championships. And this isnt Mark Madsen or Travis Knight we're talkin about either.

[misteradiant]

or sean marks.

[JustWinBaby]

Yep

I think SHaq see Nash passing him the ball in the low post. Shaq gets double teamed and he tosses it back out to Nash for a wide open 2 or 3.

Shaq will not get pissed that he doesn't get credit for the points. He just wants wins. Just like Nash.

Surely Nash has had his off nights this season, however there is NO ONE on this team or in this league I would rather have shooting a jump shot. He is just the best in the business IMO.

[JustWinBaby]

Well the Big Diesel, Cactus, Aristotle, Igniter has played two games and our rebounding woes seem to be a thing of the past.

Seriously with the increased rebounding and some more time together to settle in our defensive rotations and where to get the ball on the offensive end.............

We have a potentially very scary team on our hands.

Fuck the Lakers.

Can't wait until Sunday

[Xylus]

02/20/08
Suns - 46 (16 Off)
Lakers - 33 (7 Off)

02/22/08
Suns - 50 (12 Off)
Celts - 32 (8 Off)


Suns are averaging 48 rpg, their opponents are averaging 32.5 rbg, with Shaq playing. We'll see if this trend continues...

[otis999]

Well the Big Diesel, Cactus, Aristotle, Igniter has played two games and our rebounding woes seem to be a thing of the past.

Seriously with the increased rebounding and some more time together to settle in our defensive rotations and where to get the ball on the offensive end.............

We have a potentially very scary team on our hands.

Fuck the Lakers.

Can't wait until Sunday

I am with you. For all the Stats the Matrix picked up, we always got outrebounded during his era. This domination on the boards is just what we wanted. How many times prior to Shaq coming did we play great D in stretches, only to give up 2nd chance points? That demoralized the team time in, time out. Tonight we had stops and got the boards and Boston was never really able to make a true run, even in the 2nd quarter. You can see Nash, Grant, Boris even figuring out the half court as the games wear on. And just wait when LB is playing again - missed him all night and who would have known?

I'm with you shit on the Lakers they were lucky to win on Wed. when it came down to it and the whole nation is annoiting them like they blew us out or something. I have full faith that we won't have those careless turnovers come the playoffs. Even those three intercepted outlets that Shaq tried too hard in that game - he didn't come close to that kind of error tonight. Give us those back and we could have won Wed.

Things are looking very encouraging I predict will run Detroit out of the stadium by 20 on Sunday

[JustWinBaby]

B4 Shaq we were -6 or so on the season.

wow

Every time Tom Chambers talks about going into the lane on SHAQ I get excited.
Tom says he will hurt you it just ain't any fun going in there, I have been there and it ain't any fun.

A dull season all of a sudden has gotten very exciting.

Thank You Shaq

Nice truck by the way

I guess Amare got Shaq's Lamborghini

[JustWinBaby]

{Things are looking very encouraging I predict will run Detroit out of the stadium by 20 on Sunday}

While that would be very nice, I doubt it, the point margin that is.

I will take a win by any margin at this point.

However when we really get this thing tuned up it could get real scary.

Damn it is nice to see a dominant big man in a Suns uniform!

[ShelC]

Its really crazy how much more improved we are on the boards. During games i find myself saying, "Wow, that wouldve been an offensive rebound for the other team before the trade".

[otis999]

{Things are looking very encouraging I predict will run Detroit out of the stadium by 20 on Sunday}

While that would be very nice, I doubt it, the point margin that is.

I will take a win by any margin at this point.

However when we really get this thing tuned up it could get real scary.

Damn it is nice to see a dominant big man in a Suns uniform!

You are right Just, a win by any we'll take right now against another top caliber team. And it is truly amazing to see a big man like Shaq playing for the Suns you just can't get enough:grin::grin:

I just think those guys are intimidated by Shaq if you watch the last few years in particular of course the out in the playoffs. No Ben Wallace either. Forget Billups' dribble penetration now. Their only hope is Rip Hamilton going crazy from the perimiter and that won't be enough. I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ out there in spot time again playing shut down D to really give us a pull away edge.

Any of you guys think that Boris started to feel real good in the 2nd half? Kind of like Shaq's second half in the Laker's game? He had a few nice jumpers, under-control drives, and boards. The team is just looking spry. And Steve Nash's jumper is looking about as confident as you could hope he swished some really tough ones last night.

...and all this under the watchful eye of Steve Kerr. You ever notice how attentive he is when they show him during the games. All business, all thinking, all analyzing. We are in good hands and I believe sincerely they are going to get this figured out to the max come the playoffs and we will get it done. Can you imagine the satisfaction if this is the year, as competitive as it is out there?

[SwingMan]

Its really crazy how much more improved we are on the boards. During games i find myself saying, "Wow, that wouldve been an offensive rebound for the other team before the trade".

The team, as a whole, seems to have been galvanized - and united - since the trade for Shaq. Hell, Amare's been straight-up beasting since the news early this month - 2 full weeks before Shaq even set foot on the floor.

Even the flu and a softball-sized knot on the head can't squelch it - like Raja and Amare are saying "Fuck you, I ain't missing ANY of this!!!!!"

[JustWinBaby]

We have improved our rebounding to the point we are almost dominant, we are working out the kinks in our offense so we don't turn the ball over 25 times a game and we are playing better perimeter defense......

Anyone like our Championship Chances?

Rebounding has been and really is the key to this teams Championship Dreams.

We always have been able to play good/ not great defense and have not turned it over very much.

Now we can rebound....

I really doubt anyone will want a part of this team come playoff time.

Go Suns

[sunsdotcom]

HAHAHA... funny thread title.

with shaq's addition, it's now a possibility.

[Uncle_Gene]

JustWinBaby - A Championship Is Ours - If We Rebound


.......& quit turning the ball over.

[JustWinBaby]

JustWinBaby - A Championship Is Ours - If We Rebound


.......& quit turning the ball over.

Yep

However if the rest of the team think that SHAQ and Amare are going to outrebound the other team by themselves, they are wrong.

If the rest of the team cannot make shots other than Amare, SHAQ and Nash we ain't going anywhere either.

I am all for SHAQ and Amare to get more shots, but we are forcing it a bit too much.

Why does the slow white guy Giricek seem to be able to be able to dribble into open spots to take good shots and are fast Brazilian seem to shoot nothing but 3 pointers or dribble into a traffic jam time after time?

Is it time to move GORDAN into the 6th man role?

[phnart]

um...no.

GG is playing fairly well, but he's not the 6th man yet.