Saturday's News: Building with blocks while Diaw's messes with puzzles

[SwingMan]

Suns turn back Clippers again (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1228suns1229.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/pics/1228sunslive.jpg
Steve Nash makes a pass under the net against the Clippers during first-half action Friday in Phoenix.

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 28, 2007 11:30 PM

It was a good day for Steve Nash.

The Suns won a game the way he sort of likes to play once in a while - grinding out a 94-88 victory over the Los Angeles Clippers at US Airways Center on Friday night.

He learned earlier in the day that he has been awarded the Order of Canada, the highest honor in his country and on the level of being knighted in England.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

"None of my friends won it when I was growing up, so I didn't know anything about it," Nash cracked before getting serious. "It's incredible. It puts me in some incredibly admirable company. I just feel blown away and extremely honored to be recognized that way by my country."

Oh, and his 10 assists moved him into third on the Suns' career list.

The Clippers, however, tried to blow the whole thing for him, rallying from a double-digit deficit to take the lead in the fourth quarter.

But Amaré Stoudemire hit a 19-foot jumper for two of his 28 points with 39.6 seconds to play for a 91-86 Phoenix lead, and Nash iced it with a jumper from the same distance with 14.7 seconds to go.

As a result, the Suns won for the first time this season without scoring 100 points. They were 0-5 when failing to reach the century mark coming into the game. And Suns coach Mike D'Antoni couldn't resist playfully pointing out that the Suns are within a game of the San Antonio Spurs, just in case nobody had noticed.

But Nash was just happy to get a victory on a night that the Suns scored just 15 third-quarter points and had a difficult time getting into an offensive rhythm.

"I always love it when we grind games out," Nash said. "I love it when we win ugly. Because in the playoffs you've got to win some games like that. These games mean a lot to me. You have to fight through some adversity, and it's not pretty."

Having blown out the Clippers by 20 points the night before, the Suns figured to have a letdown.

"Psychologically, it's very difficult," Nash said. "They got blown out last night, and they're embarrassed and have nothing to lose. We get up 14 early, and it's tough to stay with it. We're all human beings out there, and human nature takes over a little bit. And strategy takes over a little bit. They're not dumb. They're not going to let you keep doing what you're doing, and they're not going to try to keep doing what they were doing."

What the Clippers never seemed to be able to do is hit shots. They shot just 34.7 percent.

"Our 16 blocks might have had something to do with that," Stoudemire said.

It was the most blocked shots by an NBA team in a game this season. Go figure that it would be the Suns.

Everybody got involved. Grant Hill and Raja Bell even blocked back-to-back shots by Clippers center Chris Kaman.

Suns report

Cheers

The Suns blocked 16 shots, the high in the NBA this season, and they came from everywhere. Reserve Brian Skinner had four to lead the way, but Grant Hill and Amaré Stoudemire each had three.

Jeers

The Suns scored only 15 points in the third quarter. The previous low for a third quarter was 17 against Miami. And they had a 13-point fourth quarter in Minnesota. Unlike those games, though, the Suns found a way to win.

Player of the game

Stoudemire backed up some tough words - and a 30-point effort Thursday night - in Los Angeles with a 28-point, 10-rebound effort in the second of the back-to-back meetings.

View from press row

If you don't think the Suns are pushing the ball as quickly this season as they have in the past, you're not alone. Coach Mike D'Antoni agreed before Friday night's game that the Suns aren't playing at the same pace that they have in the past three seasons. He said the "newness" has worn off, and other teams are better prepared for the Phoenix up-tempo attack, so they do a better job of getting back defensively in transition. But he said it isn't necessarily a bad thing, because the Suns often are playing at a pace that they'll have to play at when the playoffs arrive. And though the Clippers are not going to be around by that time in the season, they managed to force a slow pace on the Suns on Friday night with 38-year-old point guard Sam Cassell controlling the tempo while making his first start of the season. The Suns still found a way to win.

- Bob Young

[SwingMan]

Diaw's struggles puzzle D'Antoni (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1228sunsnb1229.html)

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 28, 2007 10:53 PM

Suns coach Mike D'Antoni has at least one thing in common with a lot of Suns followers:

He can't quite figure out why Boris Diaw has struggled to find his niche while playing with a healthy Amaré Stoudemire, either.

"They should be really good together," D'Antoni said. "Boris facilitates the ball, and Amaré is one of the best finishers in the business. It's a little bit of a mystery."
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The potential was evident during Friday night's second quarter, when Diaw found Stoudemire with a soft, two-handed lob at the rim.

However, with the two on the court, the Suns also saw an 11-point lead dwindle to a point in a span of about 5 minutes, 30 seconds.

But D'Antoni remains confident that Diaw will figure it out.

"There's really no good reason for it," he said, adding that most of whatever problems the Suns have had are related to effort and focus throughout the lineup.

"That's kind of the story of our team right now," he said. "It just comes down to heart and soul - play hard, and let's go."

Just what doc ordered

The back-to-back set against the Clippers that concluded Friday night starts a stretch that could allow the Suns to work through whatever issues they have.

From Friday's game to Jan. 12, the Suns play eight of 12 games at home, and only five of those are against winning teams.

"It'd be nice to go on a long winning streak, but we've still got one of the better records in the league," Suns guard Steve Nash said while the Suns were in Los Angeles.

"As long as we keep winning at a similar clip to the other top teams and keep improving and learning our lessons, I'll feel really good about our team.

"I feel like we can beat anybody, so there's no reason we can't run off a bunch of wins," he added.

Sam I am

Clippers guard Sam Cassell, who spent part of one season with the Suns during Nash's rookie season, said he could see then that Nash had one thing that would take him a long way in the NBA.

"He was competitive," Cassell said. "Every day in practice, Steve would compete. That was my fourth year in the league, and he was my rookie. He would battle with me, and some days he did really well against me.

"Then KJ (Kevin Johnson) came back, and he battled him. He was always working to get better, and once he came back here to Phoenix they opened up the floor for him."

Not by design

D'Antoni said there was no intent in Stoudemire winding up with the ball at the end of the Suns' first five possessions Thursday night against the Clippers in Los Angeles.

"We don't do that," he said. "The ball finds energy, and the ball finds the guy who's rolling, and he was rolling."

Republic writer Paul Coro contributed to this article.

[JediSkywalker]

"He learned earlier in the day that he has been awarded the Order of Canada, the highest honor in his country and on the level of being knighted in England."

That's awesome. Congrats to Nash. He deserves it.

[Phoenix219]

Diaw's struggles puzzle D'Antoni (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1228sunsnb1229.html)

Not by design

D'Antoni said there was no intent in Stoudemire winding up with the ball at the end of the Suns' first five possessions Thursday night against the Clippers in Los Angeles.

"We don't do that," he said. "The ball finds energy, and the ball finds the guy who's rolling, and he was rolling."

Republic writer Paul Coro contributed to this article.

Damn... so it wasn't on purpose, Coach hasn't learned *anything*... he just got lucky....

At the same time, Coach is still high in his praise on Amare for the most part....

[sehan]

Order of Canada? Is that like being knighted in England or like becoming a Texas ranger?

[sehan]

Diaw's struggles puzzle D'Antoni (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1228sunsnb1229.html)

Not by design

D'Antoni said there was no intent in Stoudemire winding up with the ball at the end of the Suns' first five possessions Thursday night against the Clippers in Los Angeles.

"We don't do that," he said. "The ball finds energy, and the ball finds the guy who's rolling, and he was rolling."

Republic writer Paul Coro contributed to this article.

Damn... so it wasn't on purpose, Coach hasn't learned *anything*... he just got lucky....

At the same time, Coach is still high in his praise on Amare for the most part....

I think its more like the Coach never wants to admit that he has to run plays. That his system is so fluid and perfect that the ball "finds" energy. I am sure that fact that Nash passing to Amare has nothing to do with it.

I beginning to see that maybe this Coach has too much ego for his own good. Remember the good old days 04 -05 season when he use to be humble and bend over backwards to accommodate his key players and their ego?

[Mori_Chu]

I just have one thing to say: Steve Nash and Raja Bell are going to keel over dead on the court if Coach isn't careful.

Nash is nursing all kinds of nagging injuries. He can't get enough lift and push out of his arms to make his shots. He even missed half his free throws.

Raja can't hit the broad side of a barn. His back locks up in practice.

Coach should just accept the situation, put Banks (who is playing *just fine* for Christ's sake) in the rotation, and let these guys have some more breathing room. Rest Raja for a week, please.

Unlike the others, I don't think we need a big trade. Banks is the piece we need to work in if we want to improve our team. He's ready to contribute. Give him a chance.

[OE]

Unlike the others, I don't think we need a big trade. Banks is the piece we need to work in if we want to improve our team. He's ready to contribute. Give him a chance.

Is Banks a center? Uncle Gene says Fix the Paint!

But yeah, Banks should be out there. And Coach does need to realize that his system needs specific personnel (which he doesn't have) for it to work. I agree with everyone. Everyone here is very smart, just like MR.

That said, I could use a poem about the experience of postmodernity.

[Nate]

I just have one thing to say: Steve Nash and Raja Bell are going to keel over dead on the court if Coach isn't careful.(...)

Raja can't hit the broad side of a barn. His back locks up in practice.(...)

Rest Raja for a week, please.


Agreed. While rest is often the worst thing for a bad back, 35 minutes of NBA action coupled with extended travelling cant really be the cure.



Unlike the others, I don't think we need a big trade. Banks is the piece we need to work in if we want to improve our team. He's ready to contribute. Give him a chance.


This is really a good situation to give Banks some playing time. Lets see what he does with it. Perhaps Banks wont be so overmotivated if he is going into the game with the mindset of longer minutes, resulting in him playing less aggressive D. That could actually be a blessing for Banks and his D, since in his few minutes he usually defends his opponent far to close and overaggressive, resulting in too many fouls and too many players just blowing by him(for more, check any of Wormwoods posts).

Regarding the big trade: I would do any trade that improves the Suns. Unfortunately, these are the ones the other NBA teams dont like to do. Almost all of the proposed and somewhat realistic Marion trades this season would make the Suns worse, not better. Diaw and Banks are pretty much untradeable thanks to their contracts and finding better value for LBs money could prove difficult. Any player I would trade Amare for is untradeable. So stay with what we have and make a final push for PJ.

[Nate]

Everyone here is very smart, just like MR.


If only the Suns coaching and managing staff were that smart, we would have multiple championchips by now.:wink:

[ShelC]

Diaw was awesome last night, the numbers dont do him justice. He was totally into the game from a mental aspect and it resulted in a number of great plays, from dunks for himself, to ally-oops, to blocks, to assists. I noticed that he was really playing well with Hill on the court. Those two seemed to be working on the same wavelength and Hill was really setting up Boris for some of his easier scores. Both those guys were working with the 2nd unit along with Barbs, Skinner and Stouds at the start of the 4th, the lead went from 68-67 to 79-69 with about 7 minutes left. Then MikeD brought back Nash and shawn, took out Hill and the clips slowly worked their way back. Boris actually didnt play too well with the starters and Hill was subbed back in for him with about 5 left to play.

But the Hill-Diaw combo last night was very encouraging to watch. Barbs and Hill were the primary ball handlers and Diaw was the go-to guy more or less with the 2nd unit. Skinner and Amare were on the floor for defense and rebounds.

[Wormwood]

BTW - For those pining for Marcus Banks..... take note of what DJ did last night.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20071228/UTAABQ/boxscore.html

DJ now leads the D-league in scoring per game....

http://www.nba.com/dleague/statistics/player/Scoring.jsp

Banks has had so many chances, it's not funny. He's a black hole on offense, and a fouling sieve on defense. His individual numbers might look ok, but when he's on the court the team inevitably takes a collective dump.

[ShelC]

I think if you put Banks in the DLeague hed league the league in scoring.

[Dustbuster]

Is the Millsap on the Utah D-League team a brother of Paul? Nice game by Strawberry, although you have to shudder at the 8 TOs. Still, I do think that both of our rookies are worth developing. Tucker may be a tweener, but he's got some serious athleticism and an ability to step up in real games and find ways to score.

It was encouraging that on the Clips real final possession that coach put Diaw in and once again (like the SA game), he got the key steal. He did seem to make a difference on defense last night, and that block seemed to really ignite the crowd.

Amare was solid last night, although Kaman seriously owned the glass. My bigger question is: what has happened to Shawn's rebounding? He has only been averaging around 7 boards per game over the last five. For November, he averaged 11.4 rpg, but for December he was only at 8.8, which is really low for him. He only hit double figures rebounding 6 out of 14 games in December, which is really, really odd for him. He also shot under 29% from three for the month. It seems like he never makes anything outside of 10 feet anymore. Is something wrong?

I like attitude I read from Hill and Nash about taking these few months to deal with the issues on the team while taking advantage of the lighter part of their schedule. I really think that D'Antoni should expand the rotation for a while while the schedule is easier and get Raja and Nash more rest. Raja should really be sat until he is 100%. He really isn't giving the team much of anything right now, and I don't really think it is his fault. He's just not physically there.

[Dustbuster]

I think if you put Banks in the DLeague hed league the league in scoring.

Definitely. I still think that D'Antoni should give Banks a few minutes every game as a heat check (a la' Eddie House), because if he could run off a quick ten points it certainly wouldn't hurt. I also think that his play deserves a few more minutes. No, he will probably never be a perfect fit for D'Antoni's system, but D'Antoni bought him, and he should play him. If nothing else it might give him a little value for trade.

[England_Sun]

I fear he is too stuck in his ways to budge on anything we think the team needs.
i hate to say it but if D'Antoni carries on as he is then we wont have much of a star point guard left by playoff time.

[JediSkywalker]

I think if you put Banks in the DLeague hed league the league in scoring.

Definitely. I still think that D'Antoni should give Banks a few minutes every game as a heat check (a la' Eddie House), because if he could run off a quick ten points it certainly wouldn't hurt. I also think that his play deserves a few more minutes. No, he will probably never be a perfect fit for D'Antoni's system, but D'Antoni bought him, and he should play him. If nothing else it might give him a little value for trade.


WORD. After watching Banks play some good games this season, my opinion of him has mellowed quite a lot. I do believe he can contribute to this team, given a chance. He has shown it in whatever little opportunity came his way. Dantoni stubbornly refuses to give him a chance, and refuses to give Raja Bell a much needed rest. Nash could do with some rest also. Coach, please use the talent that is sitting on your bench.

Right now the best thing to do will be to give Bell rest until he has healed. Start LB, and use Banks as a backup to LB or Nash. Also use Tucker/DJ in limited capacity.

[Wormwood]

I think we're mixing up the fact that Banks can score with his true effect on the court. I don't give a rat's keister if Banks drops 42 on another team.... if they score 62 points while he's in it still means everyone else on the team has to dig us out of a 20 point hole. Most of the time when Banks goes in, we end up in said hole. Banks is the anti-KT. I used to remark that a lot of KT's effect didn't end up in any box score, but when he was on the court good things always seemed to happen. When Banks is on the court, only bad things seem to happen. The offense stagnates, and our opponent ends up getting a lot of easy looks at the hoop.

It's not so much that DJ and Tucker have earned time on the court, it's that Banks has earned bench time.

[JustWinBaby]

{Diaw was awesome last night, the numbers dont do him justice. He was totally into the game from a mental aspect and it resulted in a number of great plays, from dunks for himself, to ally-oops, to blocks, to assists. I noticed that he was really playing well with Hill on the court. Those two seemed to be working on the same wavelength and Hill was really setting up Boris for some of his easier scores. Both those guys were working with the 2nd unit along with Barbs, Skinner and Stouds at the start of the 4th, the lead went from 68-67 to 79-69 with about 7 minutes left. Then MikeD brought back Nash and shawn, took out Hill and the clips slowly worked their way back. Boris actually didnt play too well with the starters and Hill was subbed back in for him with about 5 left to play.}

Shell

I can understand your excitement about Boris's play last night, it was refreshing. We need more of it, much more of it.

Above all we need rebounds from his position while he got five we need more.

Surely it was nice to see him go to the hole with authority a couple of times, make a few nice passes and get a couple of steals, all good.

We expect and should expect him to dominate when entering with the 2nd unit. IMO Skinner still provides more of the things that are required for this team to win than Boris. However that was Boris's best performance since I can't remember when.

[AZSportsFan]

Just saw that the Jazz traded Giricek and a first-round draft pick for Korver from Philly. Interesting. Makes the Jazz a better 3-pt shooting team, but the defense goes down a bit as well.

[Nate]

I think we're mixing up the fact that Banks can score with his true effect on the court. I don't give a rat's keister if Banks drops 42 on another team.... if they score 62 points while he's in it still means everyone else on the team has to dig us out of a 20 point hole. Most of the time when Banks goes in, we end up in said hole. Banks is the anti-KT. I used to remark that a lot of KT's effect didn't end up in any box score, but when he was on the court good things always seemed to happen. When Banks is on the court, only bad things seem to happen. The offense stagnates, and our opponent ends up getting a lot of easy looks at the hoop.

It's not so much that DJ and Tucker have earned time on the court, it's that Banks has earned bench time.

I only want to see Banks for a few games right now in Raja's role so that we can rest Raja for a week or two, but I am definitely not a fan of Banks as Nash's backup. I like the KT comparison, but with Marks alongside Nash in Rajas role or as a backup for Barbosa in Rajas role, he couldnt possible bog down the offense too much and we should still be able to win a few games with the relatively weak upcoming schedule. Banks could even help us out with a few threes which Raja wouldnt hit right now...

[AlanS]

If you don't think the Suns are pushing the ball as quickly this season as they have in the past, you're not alone. Coach Mike D'Antoni agreed before Friday night's game that the Suns aren't playing at the same pace that they have in the past three seasons. He said the "newness" has worn off, and other teams are better prepared for the Phoenix up-tempo attack, so they do a better job of getting back defensively in transition.

[1] Actually, the problem is not that their pace has slipped, as much as the Suns' 3PT shooting has slipped.

Here are the Suns' scoring averages from the past 4 seasons:
07/08: 109.1
06/07: 110.2
05/06: 108.4
04/05: 110.4

These are the 3PT Shooting numbers for those seasons
07/08: 36.8% / 8.2 3PTpg
06/07: 39.9% / 9.5 3PTpg
05/06: 39.9% / 10.2 3PTpg
04/05: 39.3% / 9.7 3PTpg

[2] So what do all these numbers mean? Well, the Suns are scoring just 1.3 less points per game than in 04/05, which was their best scoring season in the Nash era. But they're also making 1.5 less 3PT shots now than they did in 04/05; that translates to a loss of 4.5 points per game from the longball.

In short: the 1.3 point drop in scoring versus the 04/05 season's is clearly due to a drop in 3PT scoring. In fact, by my calculation, if the Suns were shooting at 39% on 3s like they did in the prior 3 seasons, they would be averaging slightly over 110.5 ppg - which would their highest scoring average in 4 years

[3] Here is some good news: the drop in 3PT shooting has been somewhat offset by better 2PT shooting. These are the Suns 2PT shooting percentages in the Nash era:
07/08: 53.8%
06/07: 53.2%
05/06: 51.1%
04/05: 51.2%

The Suns now have 5 players who are shooting over 50% on 2PT shots and average at least 30 minutes per game. I just don't have the time to look at the numbers for other teams, but I don't think anybody even comes close. I don't think people realize how hard it is to shoot over 50% for long stretches of game. These are the numbers:
• Amare 59.4%
• Nash 53.0%
• Barbosa 54.7%
• Hill 55.0%
• Marion 59.5%

[4] And just for those who are interested, these are the Suns FGA and FTA numbers for the past few seasons:
07/08: 85.1 FGA / 21.7 FTA
06/07: 83.6 FGA / 22.3 FTA
05/06: 87.4 FGA / 18.0 FTA
04/05: 85.6 FGA / 25.4 FTA

The Suns attempts are slightly higher than last season's, slightly lower than the 04/05 season.

[ShelC]

Well keep in mind tho that he was on the floor a lot of the time with Skinner and/or Stouds. He could definitely get in there more and mix it up. There were a few times when i saw him floating around kind of watching. But baby steps...

For the record, im not an all-out Boris defender. I think some of the crap hes gotten on the board has been ridiculous, starting with the pics online that have been circulating. He defintiely hasnt been playing well, and while its a matter of opinion, i just dont believe hes been dogging it and getting fat off his checks. I dont believe he was simply playing well in 05-06 because it was a contract year. The guy is a basketball player. I just really think getting all the guys adjusted and used to playing with each other has been rough, especially for someone as laid back and unselfish as Boris seems to be.

If you think about it, its not really surprising that Boris has struggled. I mean, we score 110ppg, have the league leader in assists, a dominant paint player in Amare, a rebounder in Shawn, a scorer/slasher in Hill and straight scorer in Barbs. We added Skinner to give us a defensive presence, rebounder and shotblocker. You cant look at Boris and say, he should be giving us 15-6-6 if he gets his minutes. It just might not be possible cuz there are only so many minutes in a game and so much he can do given the talent on the team. So if he can "only" get 8-4-4 playing the way he did last night, does it mean he sucks or isnt trying? You need roleplayers to fill the gaps which is why Skinner looks so good for us right now. Boris' contract makes him a target obviously, so you hope he at least plays well and helps us in games even if the numbers arent gaudy and eyepopping.

But when hes playing like he did last night, hes honestly one of my favorite players to watch. He's smooth, makes great passes, and just seems to know what the play is. I really hope we've sort of figured it out a bit. Again, i think he and Hill could be a fearsome tandem in the 2nd unit. They played off each other so well and ive seen it before earlier in the season but in bits and pieces. Last night was one of the few times ive seen them play off each other for an extended period of time. We need to build off it.

[JediSkywalker]

Good post ShelC.

[wpmiller42]

Honestly, I think if Amare plays consistently with high intensity and focus, and Boris plays consistently well (doesn't have to have great numbers, just has to be a positive factor on the floor), then you can give us the championship trophy right now. Barring any injuries, I just think those two are the biggest factors as the season plays out.

[Mori_Chu]

I can't believe the Jazz were able to steal Kyle Korver for their garbage Giricek. I mean, Giricek was publicly feuding with the coach, wasn't at the games or practices ... his trade value should have been zero or even negative. But somehow they turn him into a legit, dead-eye shooter. I'm insanely jealous. This is like if Banks started publicly dissing Coach D and then we were able to trade him for Andre Miller straight up or something.

How did Utah pull off this heist?

[jkalldaway]

DJ dropped 41 points last night topping Alando Tucker's 40-point effort earlier in the D League season.. DJ shot 15-of-25 and 4-of-6 from behind the three-point line in 38 minutes of action.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20071228/UTAABQ/boxscore.html

[jkalldaway]

It was a bad contract for Philly, so I think they were hoping someone would take him and they got a pick to boot.

[ShelC]

Yea, youre talknig about swapping similar players so it was probably pretty easy. Korver is a lights out 3pt shooter which the jazz can use. The Sixers GM stefanski made a great move short term. He got out of Korvers contract, got Giriceks expiring 4mil deal and a pick. Also, its not like Giricek has a rep for being a lockerroom cancer. He just wanted out of Utah cuz he felt like he could be contributing more. And even if he were a cancer, hes in a contract year so he still had a lot of value in that regard. But hes a solid vet, he can probably do a bit more with the ball than Korver which may help philly a bit, not to mention that he is playing for a contract. Both sides win, really.

Korver on the jazz could hurt us down the line tho.

[Wormwood]

How come we can't convert Banks into a warm carcass that can contribute? We all know he's been shopped around....

[ShelC]

If banks were a FA at the end of the year, im sure thered be more interest.

[SunsFan4Life]

A) Banks still has 3yrs left on his deal after this year.

B) We traded the Sonics 2 1st rd picks along with KT

C) I see Korver play alot down here...Great shooter AWFUL DEFENDER. He would instantly become the worst defender on the team.

[sunshoopjunky]

Marcus Williams?

[JackArse]

Well keep in mind tho that he was on the floor a lot of the time with Skinner and/or Stouds. He could definitely get in there more and mix it up. There were a few times when i saw him floating around kind of watching. But baby steps...

For the record, im not an all-out Boris defender. I think some of the crap hes gotten on the board has been ridiculous, starting with the pics online that have been circulating. He defintiely hasnt been playing well, and while its a matter of opinion, i just dont believe hes been dogging it and getting fat off his checks. I dont believe he was simply playing well in 05-06 because it was a contract year. The guy is a basketball player. I just really think getting all the guys adjusted and used to playing with each other has been rough, especially for someone as laid back and unselfish as Boris seems to be.

If you think about it, its not really surprising that Boris has struggled. I mean, we score 110ppg, have the league leader in assists, a dominant paint player in Amare, a rebounder in Shawn, a scorer/slasher in Hill and straight scorer in Barbs. We added Skinner to give us a defensive presence, rebounder and shotblocker. You cant look at Boris and say, he should be giving us 15-6-6 if he gets his minutes. It just might not be possible cuz there are only so many minutes in a game and so much he can do given the talent on the team. So if he can "only" get 8-4-4 playing the way he did last night, does it mean he sucks or isnt trying? You need roleplayers to fill the gaps which is why Skinner looks so good for us right now. Boris' contract makes him a target obviously, so you hope he at least plays well and helps us in games even if the numbers arent gaudy and eyepopping.

But when hes playing like he did last night, hes honestly one of my favorite players to watch. He's smooth, makes great passes, and just seems to know what the play is. I really hope we've sort of figured it out a bit. Again, i think he and Hill could be a fearsome tandem in the 2nd unit. They played off each other so well and ive seen it before earlier in the season but in bits and pieces. Last night was one of the few times ive seen them play off each other for an extended period of time. We need to build off it.

also, i know i saw it posted in the game thread i think, but it seemed like boris was getting a bit iced out at the beginning, nash would kinda look him off, even near the end, nash told him to clear out which was really odd.
if you noticed that diaw was really quiet and just standing out there until hill got him that alleyoop i think it was for his first points, then he just kinda clicked it on. it almost seemed as if hill was making a conscious effort to get diaw the ball and make him feel like he's part of the team again

[ShelC]

Yea, thats about right Jack. I can remember clearly at least 2 plays where Boris got looked off. One time he was cutting across the lane on a designed play and was wide open but the ball got swung...maybe that was by design; then there was a post up when he had the mismatch and they passed the ball away from him. Like u said, Hill got him that ally-oop and it really got him into the game.

[misteradiant]

Is Banks a center? Uncle Gene says Fix the Paint!

But yeah, Banks should be out there. And Coach does need to realize that his system needs specific personnel (which he doesn't have) for it to work. I agree with everyone. Everyone here is very smart, just like MR.

That said, I could use a poem about the experience of postmodernity.

that's nice to say about everybody being smart, oe. even if some might take it that you just called everyone something else.

first, the poem. you guys are boring me with the obvious. if you do it on purpose, i will no longer reply. oe gets the last one. it's an old one i wrote years ago and which appears on the poetry page of nachosrule.com. it's a haiku called "vegetarian hell for drooling puppies:"

nacho cheese like lust
dripping slowly burning now
the napkin useless
_________

i agree with mori. i think we ought to give banks 10 or 15 minutes a game. i also think we ought to start leandro. not that any of these things will happen, but a guy can dream.

we do not need more bigs. brian skinner is easily comparable to kurt thomas and last year few said we needed more bigs. everybody just wanted to play thomas more. this year skinner gets more blocks and steals and is more exciting, which means the team is more fun to watch than with thomas. besides, there is not one decent big out there. name one better than we've got that is remotely available. actually, don't. it won't happen and is a wasted venture both emotionally and temporally. this is the team we've got and as i've said before, you all ought to get used to it. it would be nice to see amare and skinner play together more. they didn't do that nearly enough last night.

some folks think the game was fugly. well, it's hard to get up for the clippers after a week of lakers and mavericks and spurs, so take that into consideration when razzing the fans in the stadium. how excited were you for last night's game? i thought with that kind of energy the suns did a great job and at no point did i think they were going to lose.

good news:
when the suns hustle, they get 16 blocks! we might not get a ton of rebounds, but all those blocks mean more than a rebound. a block means -2 points against us. a block is intimidation. a rebound, not so much. a block we recover is a block and a rebound. i did not count the times we got the ball off a block last night, but out of 16 blocks, i'm going to guess we obtained at least half of them. that's -2 points, a rebound, and a chance to score 2 more. who needs 3-pointers when that's a 4-point spread we get with our blocking. 16 blocks and some of them ended in fast-break points. wow. how fun is that?

a rebound only means we get a chance to score and nothing is guaranteed. as i said a week ago, if we blocked 9 or 10 times a game, it negates the need to be a 3-point team. we are still frighteningly athletic, even with raja a little slower. shawn has not lost a step. amare has gained one from last year. leandro and boris are better. lb just because and boris because he came into camp fit. skinner is twice as athletic as thomas was and grant hill looks like he's drinking the water nash has since '05. if we played dj or marcus, we're even more athletic. we aren't slower.

"really, misteradiant," you say. yes. this is why:

i love when i'm watching a game and they show how many points there are in the paint, and the suns are +10 or more in the first half. who needs 3s then? when we made 3s, we were not the #1 shot blocking team in the league, like we are today, or anywhere close, and we never led in points in the paint. if any of you geeks want to stat the points in the paint ratio to wins and losses, that would be cool. until then, it is my guess that we beat san antonio in the paint and we didn't beat the lakers there. the point is that we are big enough to win the paint against big guys like duncan, so we should be able to against bynum and chandler.

so keep crying about the phantom big we will never get, and that we are not hitting from outside like we're used to oe, i reply that we still lead the league in scoring like we're used to. we are just getting the points in other ways. you and a few others cannot accept the new ways and want to make the team something else. i see that they are what they are, a smarter team with more slashing to the basket for dunks and lay-ups. i see a shot-blocking team who alters shots in the paint. i see four more months of basketball to build on these things. if the suns do, and if they recognize the change in our team and not force issues like threes, but on blocks and fast breaks from those, then this is a team that can win the championship.

it's funny, because people are saying we should just admit we can't win the championship this year. they are also the same people saying we need to hit our threes and it's a problem that we aren't. they say we need yet another big/center. not a point guard. not a power forward. a center. they say we can't win without one. but they don't notice we have averaged 9.4 blocks a game for the past 10 games. they haven't noticed that exactly what i said the suns should do over a week ago is happening. they don't think blocks and a slashing game in the paint will do with isolations for grant and pick-n-rolls for amare. they think we can't win it all.

i disagree. i vote for the team to figure it out by april.

we are not slower. it takes longer to score in the paint. that makes the suns seem slower. we are actually getting more shot attempts this year than last (85.1 this year from 83.6 last year).

on that note, that our shooting sucks, we are shooting 49.3%. last year we shot 49.4%. if you're going to bitch about one tenth of one percent, then just pay for a blowjob if you can't get one free and relax. things are not so astray, we are not slower, and we have as good a chance to win it all this year as we've had since steve came back.

as for the killer instinct that the team seems to be missing, that's a valid observation. in 4 months, i'm guessing they'll have it. i am going to even say that the suns will beat the lakers when we meet them next, which is january 17th in l.a. i put all of this on amare's shoulders. i believe he can do that "team on my shoulders" thing and will us to victory by being a dominating force on both ends of the floor. he has to do things like that to be an all star this year.

regarding coach's remarks about those first 6 plays for amare on the clippers' court, well, it seems he's either being coy or he's a dumbass. i think it's neither. if we could see a vid of the question asked and how mike answers, with inflections and body gestures, we might deduce the nature of the statement. my guess is that mike is straight-forward and the quote means exactly what it says. that does not mean he didn't learn from that game. it means that maybe he hasn't understood that we are no longer run and gun. we're slash and burn. i like that better. it goes well with the whole fire/phoenix thing the team promotes.

slash and burn. yeah. it doesn't rhyme with fun, but it doesn't have to. there is nothing fun about this any more, is there people? now it's just war.

i wish steve would invite amare over for dinner. i think their relationship is strained. when steve was signed, amare was part of the party that went to dallas to ask him to come to the suns. amare told steve he wanted to play with him. steve is the wise vet who should just walk up to amare now and invite him over to dinner. they ought to talk about basketball and how they can team up to make their team better. steve could tell amare he'd like him to be engaged all the time and amare can say okay, then look for me twenty times a game. not that it would ever happen, but a guy can dream.

the game i'm most looking forward to coming up is denver on monday the 7th. they're the #2 shot blocking team and #3 in points-per-game.

slash and burn. recognize our components' obvious fit and play them accordingly with a violent slogan the pundits can repeat on national tv. we don't gun, we slash. we don't run, we burn everything in our wake. it all starts with a blocked shot. the opponent can't score on us and they can't stop us from scoring inside on them, all in two plays. slash (block) and burn (rebound and lay-up or dunk). how's that for smart?

motherfuckers.

see angie for that twenty bucks, mister gentry.

[misteradiant]

I think if you put Banks in the DLeague hed league the league in scoring.

that's a lot of leagues. you must be under the sea or you're happy to see me. oh. it's a snorkel. okay.


what has happened to Shawn's rebounding? He has only been averaging around 7 boards per game over the last five. For November, he averaged 11.4 rpg, but for December he was only at 8.8, which is really low for him. He only hit double figures rebounding 6 out of 14 games in December, which is really, really odd for him. He also shot under 29% from three for the month. It seems like he never makes anything outside of 10 feet anymore. Is something wrong?

he is expending a lot of energy defensively, where i think he's doing an outstanding job. he is also missing a ton of lay-ups and put-backs. it isn't that he's lost his jump or anything. i see him in guy's faces with his hands and bodying up to try to steal the ball. he's only 1.5 points off last year and there is still almost four more months to the playoffs. he averaged 9.8 rebounds last year. he's above that at 10.2 this year. i'm not worried about him making one less point a game. i am more concerned with raja.

welcome back, england sun. it's been a while. hope you are well.


Just saw that the Jazz traded Giricek and a first-round draft pick for Korver from Philly. Interesting. Makes the Jazz a better 3-pt shooting team, but the defense goes down a bit as well.

of course they got a white guy.


(that whole post)

sweet. it's like you slept at an holiday inn last night.


For the record, im not an all-out Boris defender. I think some of the crap hes gotten on the board has been ridiculous, starting with the pics online that have been circulating. He defintiely hasnt been playing well, and while its a matter of opinion, i just dont believe hes been dogging it and getting fat off his checks. I dont believe he was simply playing well in 05-06 because it was a contract year. The guy is a basketball player. I just really think getting all the guys adjusted and used to playing with each other has been rough, especially for someone as laid back and unselfish as Boris seems to be...

i couldn't read on.

first, it's lazy and unselfish. why should he be selfish? he's a lazy man and he's set for life.

even the notorious diaw knob-jobber bill walton (remember him comparing boris to beethoven?) said on abc on christmas that boris got his contract and retired. yes. you missed that? even bill walton has stated that, in effect, he thinks boris has been "dogging it and getting fat off his checks." to state otherwise at this point, especially over his performance last night, is making excuses for a man who was paid to do now what he did two years ago.

in 05-06 he averaged 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 block, 1 steal and 13 points.
last night he averaged 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals and 8 points.
his averages for the year are even worse than last night but where's my 2 rebounds, 2 assists and 5 points? keep the block and the steal. they don't account for more than 9 points (2 assists + 5 points = 9). if they did, that's only equal to his average stat line two years ago. coming within 10 points of them in one game today is no cause for celebration and certainly needs no post in his defense. in fact, it only illustrates how far our expectations have dropped for him. so fuck boris. he got paid and he quit. the only fire that can be lit under his ass will come from the fried jalapeño's at a kegger. we'll win a championship in spite of his sorry easter island face and dirty scottsdale smirk.

ring ring.
hello. no thanks, kool and the gang. i appreciate it but i've got this covered.
click.


also, i know i saw it posted in the game thread i think, but it seemed like boris was getting a bit iced out at the beginning, nash would kinda look him off, even near the end, nash told him to clear out which was really odd.
if you noticed that diaw was really quiet and just standing out there until hill got him that alleyoop i think it was for his first points, then he just kinda clicked it on. it almost seemed as if hill was making a conscious effort to get diaw the ball and make him feel like he's part of the team again

poor boris. "if you're gonna suck for two months, i'm gonna freeze you out," steve seems to say. good for steve. he thinks "fuck boris," too.

yeah. fuck boris. go suns.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Good post ShelC.

I agree

[ShelC]

So i guess Bill Walton is Yoda now? Knows all, does he?

2 assists + 5 points = 9)

Not if those assists are setting up 3pt shots. He made a great cross court pass out of the post to Barbs on the wing for a 3 last night. We were able to work inside-out from the post, it opened up a shooter and we got a 3 in the halfcourt set. Funny how that works huh? Much better than penetrate-kick, penetrate-kick, penetrate-kick and then Grant Hill is bricking a 25ft 3 from the wing.

in 05-06 he averaged 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 block, 1 steal and 13 points.
last night he averaged 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals and 8 points.

Well, in 05-06 he averaged about 36mpg. Last night he played 29, so id say he was right in line to make that average from 2 years ago had he played a few more minutes.

i couldn't read on.

Too bad...if u did, you wouldve seen this and been enlightened:


we score 110ppg, have the league leader in assists, a dominant paint player in Amare, a rebounder in Shawn, a scorer/slasher in Hill and straight scorer in Barbs. We added Skinner to give us a defensive presence, rebounder and shotblocker. You cant look at Boris and say, he should be giving us 15-6-6 if he gets his minutes. It just might not be possible cuz there are only so many minutes in a game and so much he can do given the talent on the team. So if he can "only" get 8-4-4 playing the way he did last night, does it mean he sucks or isnt trying? You need roleplayers to fill the gaps which is why Skinner looks so good for us right now. Boris' contract makes him a target obviously, so you hope he at least plays well and helps us in games even if the numbers arent gaudy and eyepopping.

poor boris. "if you're gonna suck for two months, i'm gonna freeze you out," steve seems to say. good for steve. he thinks "fuck boris," too.

When i saw his teammates looking him off, i actually was thinking the same thing. I dont doubt his teammates are pissed, feel let down, are annoyed, or just frustrated with Boris. When Stevie makes those comments about guys not coming to play or trying hard, yea, hes probably talking about Boris. But i never thought id see a guy like Stevie deliberately looking off an open teammate just to teach them a lesson. I sincerely hope thats not the case. But if it is, thank god for Grant Hill. Hes worth his weight in gold this year and having a vet like him to kind of look past all that other stuff and try to work with a teammate rather than work against him is huge. I did get the feeling last night like Hill was seeking Boris out and bringing the best out in him. Hopefully Hill has Boris' ear and can maybe bring him along a bit, take him under his wing so to speak.

[misteradiant]

shelc, no, i actually read your post. i just didn't want to admit to it. thanks for exposing me as a liar. talk to my attorneys from now on.

as i wrote above, he is not living up to the expectations granted him when we gave him his contract. dispute that fact all you want and make excuses for boris, it won't go away. we would not have paid $110,000 a game for 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 7 points.

now, if you think 9 million a year for 7 and 4 + 3 assists is cool then hey, it's no skin off my back. i'll just be glad you don't have anything to do with the suns.

as for assists as if they were all 3-pointers; then it's him missing more than 9 points in production every game from two years ago. it's 10 or 11. i don't see how that helps you. it only shows that he is doing even less now.

2 less assists this year = -4 points (maybe 5 or 6 if 3's)
5 points less this year = -5 points
boris points production = -9 to -11 points less than 05-06. you understand that, right?

as for walton. i said no such thing about him being yoda and knowing all. didn't i say he was notorious? that's because he loved boris so much we'd all laugh at what he said and now he says boris "retired after getting his contract." you really hate refuting evidence, don't you, man? it's okay. in 10,457 posts there's bound to be a dud.

find me an nba writer that isn't saying the same thing as walton about boris. it doesn't make walton a yoda know-it-all and anyone a jedi as much as it makes him a populist pundit to us simple nba fans. he's not the end-all, be-all but he might as well be for what people think about boris. you find a national nba writer or broadcast personality who says anything near what you say about boris.

clock's ticking...

:cool:

[jkalldaway]

Here is a video of the team's comments after the Clippers game two night ago. I know that some here were upset/concerned about coach and Nash's comments but in the video it is clear that the comments were taken somewhat out of context. Enjoy.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=78OXSjJh_rE

[illmatic]

as for walton. i said no such thing about him being yoda and knowing all. didn't i say he was notorious? that's because he loved boris so much we'd all laugh at what he said and now he says boris "retired after getting his contract." you really hate refuting evidence, don't you, man? it's okay. in 10,457 posts there's bound to be a dud.


Wow..MisterRadiant 1, ShelC 0.

[ShelC]

i said no such thing about him being yoda and knowing all.

Walton=Yoda


You cant change the fact that Boris makes 9 mil. We gave him the deal, he didnt hold a gun to our head. But again, i dont mind the contract so long as hes contributing in a positive way and making us that much tougher to beat. To expect 05-06 numbers now, just because hes making 9 mil, is unreasonable. We have a healthy Amare and a healthy Grant Hill added to the roster so thats going to take away from his stats. I dont know what else to say. You want 15-7-7 cuz of his contract? Not gonna happen with this roster. Maybe down the line if there are roster changes and hes starting and getting his 35mpg, then he'll fill up the stat sheet. But right now, theres only so much he can do off the bench and us being as loaded as we are. The key is him making positive plays and making himself a factor rather than coasting thru cuz we're winning.

Wow..MisterRadiant 1, ShelC 0.

Actually, MR 1, ShelC 10458!!!!

Beat that! And Illmatic, when i want your opinion ill give it to ya.

[illmatic]

You're on a message board you dope, giving your opinion to the public. Be prepared to have your opinion criticized. Just because MR had the upper-hand on ya doesn't mean you have to get 'up in arms' about it.

[v9]

You're on a message board you dope, giving your opinion to the public. Be prepared to have your opinion criticized. Just because MR had the upper-hand on ya doesn't mean you have to get 'up in arms' about it.

wtf?

[ShelC]

I was kidding....and he doesnt have the upper hand. Im always right.

[BobbyDogg]

I was kidding....and he doesnt have the upper hand. Im always right.


lmao!

You gotta love these exciting exchanges between members of this fan forum!

Opinions are like A holes.....you know the rest.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

shelc, no, i actually read your post. i just didn't want to admit to it. thanks for exposing me as a liar. talk to my attorneys from now on.

as i wrote above, he is not living up to the expectations granted him when we gave him his contract. dispute that fact all you want and make excuses for boris, it won't go away. we would not have paid $110,000 a game for 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 7 points.

now, if you think 9 million a year for 7 and 4 + 3 assists is cool then hey, it's no skin off my back. i'll just be glad you don't have anything to do with the suns.

as for assists as if they were all 3-pointers; then it's him missing more than 9 points in production every game from two years ago. it's 10 or 11. i don't see how that helps you. it only shows that he is doing even less now.

2 less assists this year = -4 points (maybe 5 or 6 if 3's)
5 points less this year = -5 points
boris points production = -9 to -11 points less than 05-06. you understand that, right?

as for walton. i said no such thing about him being yoda and knowing all. didn't i say he was notorious? that's because he loved boris so much we'd all laugh at what he said and now he says boris "retired after getting his contract." you really hate refuting evidence, don't you, man? it's okay. in 10,457 posts there's bound to be a dud.

find me an nba writer that isn't saying the same thing as walton about boris. it doesn't make walton a yoda know-it-all and anyone a jedi as much as it makes him a populist pundit to us simple nba fans. he's not the end-all, be-all but he might as well be for what people think about boris. you find a national nba writer or broadcast personality who says anything near what you say about boris.

clock's ticking...

:cool:


MOVE ON FOLKS NOTHING TO SEE HERE!

[AlanS]

FYI, these are Minutes Per Game for the last 2 seasons:

06/07
Marion 37.6
Bell 37.4
Nash 35.3
LB 32.7
Stat 32.8
Diaw 31.2
JR 18.1
KT 18.1
Banks 11.1 (only appeared in 45 of 82 games)

07/08
Marion 36.9
Nash 34.4
Hill 34.3
Bell 34.0
Stat 31.3
LB 30.2
Diaw 25.5
Skinner 13.7 (16.8 minutes per game in last 10 games)
Banks 11.9 (only appeared in 12 of 30 games)

> The minutes for LB are down some, but Diaw's minutes are down A LOT. Obviously, it's not just fans who are down on Diaw's productivity. D'Antoni rewards players who do well with lots of minutes, and Diaw is clearly not earning them. If Diaw can show thru his on-court productivity that he deserves more PT, it would give coach a chance to lessen the minutes of the other front-court players.

[misteradiant]

MOVE ON FOLKS NOTHING TO SEE HERE!

tbr, maybe you can find an nba writer that isn't saying the same thing as walton about boris. find a national nba writer or broadcast personality who says anything near what you say about boris. find them saying what you said weeks earlier, or find them saying nice things about boris in the future. i've got time.

tick tock.

[ShelC]

What am i supposedly looking for?

[misteradiant]

Walton=Yoda

"ohhhkaaay.... whatever you say." he turns and makes a circular motion with his index finger pointed at the side of his head.


You cant change the fact that Boris makes 9 mil. We gave him the deal, he didnt hold a gun to our head. But again, i dont mind the contract so long as hes contributing in a positive way and making us that much tougher to beat. To expect 05-06 numbers now, just because hes making 9 mil, is unreasonable. We have a healthy Amare and a healthy Grant Hill added to the roster so thats going to take away from his stats. I dont know what else to say. You want 15-7-7 cuz of his contract? Not gonna happen with this roster. Maybe down the line if there are roster changes and hes starting and getting his 35mpg, then he'll fill up the stat sheet. But right now, theres only so much he can do off the bench and us being as loaded as we are. The key is him making positive plays and making himself a factor rather than coasting thru cuz we're winning.

excuses. boris should be paying you money you make so many excuses for him. it's amazing how many you can come up with. i have a challenger to be master of the realm of bullshit.


Wow..MisterRadiant 1, ShelC 0.

Actually, MR 1, ShelC 10458!!!!

Beat that! And Illmatic, when i want your opinion ill give it to ya.

proof that shelc doesn't know anything about stats. no wonder he thinks boris' current output is reasonable. i actually have 2,471 posts. i'm a hall of famer. like a few guys that have been here for six years or more. but nobody posts more than shelc. it makes me think he's a shut-in or he works for family. anyway, it will take me 12 years to get as many posts as he has now. it makes him happy. good for him. we all need something, you know.

:cool:

[misteradiant]

What am i supposedly looking for?

the golden rod. you know, the one azimuth presented to heretices of the noble boobie tree. i always loved that myth. all those boobies and trees. what?

[ethan_cohen]

I think we have to look at Boris as the one that didn't get away. We dodged lots of bullets on marginal bigs with "upside" that we didn't throw big contracts at. Big Jake. Little Jake. Tim Thomas. Lampe. Hunter. Those are just the recent ones.

Signing on the dotted line is AWLAYS a gamble. We've made our share of goofs and Boris is one. But we've dodged just as many or gotten bargains galore. Marion was a 9th pick. So was Stat. Nash is CHEAP. So's Barbs.

You can't cherry pick. Actually, you can, it just kind of negates your point.

I said it before. He's French. What did we expect?

[AlanS]

But when Boris is playing like he did last night, hes honestly one of my favorite players to watch. He's smooth, makes great passes, and just seems to know what the play is. I really hope we've sort of figured it out a bit. Again, i think he and Hill could be a fearsome tandem in the 2nd unit. They played off each other so well and ive seen it before earlier in the season but in bits and pieces. Last night was one of the few times ive seen them play off each other for an extended period of time. We need to build off it.

One line-up that worked well in a previous game was Skinner, Diaw, Marion, Hill, and Barbosa, where Hill played SG. I'd like to see that combo more. According to 82games.com, that unit is a -14 in 41 minutes of play. When you consider that Nash isn't on that unit - he's the Suns leading +/- guy - and that Stat is not there to provide an inside scorer, -14 is almost respectable. Perhaps they are capable of more.

The Suns struggle when Nash and Amare are out. Job one for the rest of the season is finding a way for the team to score points when the 2-man game that is the key to the set offense is out. If that means Hill and Diaw together, I'm down with that.

I want to believe...

[misteradiant]

that's a great avatar ethan. so much better than bill murray. that avatar reminded me of scarlett johansson but instead of her it was him from their movie. if you were indy you'd put scarlett there, but no. it was bill. so seriously, that's actually a killer avatar you've got now. it makes me smile widely.

[misteradiant]

Job one for the rest of the season is finding a way for the team to score points when the 2-man game that is the key to the set offense is out. If that means Hill and Diaw together, I'm down with that.

I want to believe...

so do i, man. i'm more than willing to give that a try. maybe it is as some have said and hill was working with boris well last night. i did not notice that, but i don't refute it. so let them play a lot together for a while and see if something tight develops. maybe steve has had it with boris. if so, maybe hill can communicate with him and raise his level of play.

what about also giving ten minutes to banks with them instead of all leandro?

[ShelC]

excuses. boris should be paying you money you make so many excuses for him. it's amazing how many you can come up with.

You call them excuses. I call them reasons.

So Boris is only earning his money if he averages 15-7-7 like he did 2 years ago? What if he plays as well as he did last night but only averages 8-4-4 in about 28mpg? Is he still a bust whos dogging it?

[SunsFan4Life]

Damn. This Thread has turned into a snooze fest.

Radiant, Please stop making posts that take up nearly a whole page of a thread. YIKES!

[Mori_Chu]

I am not panicked about Diaw as some others are here. I think we can still work with him to try to integrate him better with the team. I would probably be happy with 12pt / 6reb / 4ast from him.


it's funny, because people are saying we should just admit we can't win the championship this year. they are also the same people saying we need to hit our threes and it's a problem that we aren't. they say we need yet another big/center. not a point guard. not a power forward. a center. they say we can't win without one. but they don't notice we have averaged 9.4 blocks a game for the past 10 games. they haven't noticed that exactly what i said the suns should do over a week ago is happening. they don't think blocks and a slashing game in the paint will do with isolations for grant and pick-n-rolls for amare. they think we can't win it all.

i disagree. i vote for the team to figure it out by april.

I agree that we still have a great chance to win the title and have many months to figure these things out. I agree that we shouldn't make a panic trade or abandon this season. But these things are still problems. Better outside shooting would help a ton on the nights when our inside game is being jammed by interior D. Better D would help us start the fastbreaks that we need more than ever to score. And so on.

Start Barbosa; rest Raja; play Banks; tell Marion never to shoot outside shots ever again. That is all.

[SpecialSauce]

excuses. boris should be paying you money you make so many excuses for him. it's amazing how many you can come up with.

You call them excuses. I call them reasons.

So Boris is only earning his money if he averages 15-7-7 like he did 2 years ago? What if he plays as well as he did last night but only averages 8-4-4 in about 28mpg? Is he still a bust whos dogging it?

Word Shel. Don't worry about Jackoffasauras Rex, he's just mad cause Boris won't date him, he'll only have him. The same guy that will bend over backwards for LB...:roll: Chamon Jackoffasauras Rex, just stop with the Boris Bias

[Phoenix219]

Is Banks a center? Uncle Gene says Fix the Paint!

But yeah, Banks should be out there. And Coach does need to realize that his system needs specific personnel (which he doesn't have) for it to work. I agree with everyone. Everyone here is very smart, just like MR.

That said, I could use a poem about the experience of postmodernity.

that's nice to say about everybody being smart, oe. even if some might take it that you just called everyone something else.

first, the poem. you guys are boring me with the obvious. if you do it on purpose, i will no longer reply. oe gets the last one. it's an old one i wrote years ago and which appears on the poetry page of nachosrule.com. it's a haiku called "vegetarian hell for drooling puppies:"

nacho cheese like lust
dripping slowly burning now
the napkin useless
_________

i agree with mori. i think we ought to give banks 10 or 15 minutes a game. i also think we ought to start leandro. not that any of these things will happen, but a guy can dream.

we do not need more bigs. brian skinner is easily comparable to kurt thomas and last year few said we needed more bigs. everybody just wanted to play thomas more. this year skinner gets more blocks and steals and is more exciting, which means the team is more fun to watch than with thomas. besides, there is not one decent big out there. name one better than we've got that is remotely available. actually, don't. it won't happen and is a wasted venture both emotionally and temporally. this is the team we've got and as i've said before, you all ought to get used to it. it would be nice to see amare and skinner play together more. they didn't do that nearly enough last night.

some folks think the game was fugly. well, it's hard to get up for the clippers after a week of lakers and mavericks and spurs, so take that into consideration when razzing the fans in the stadium. how excited were you for last night's game? i thought with that kind of energy the suns did a great job and at no point did i think they were going to lose.

good news:
when the suns hustle, they get 16 blocks! we might not get a ton of rebounds, but all those blocks mean more than a rebound. a block means -2 points against us. a block is intimidation. a rebound, not so much. a block we recover is a block and a rebound. i did not count the times we got the ball off a block last night, but out of 16 blocks, i'm going to guess we obtained at least half of them. that's -2 points, a rebound, and a chance to score 2 more. who needs 3-pointers when that's a 4-point spread we get with our blocking. 16 blocks and some of them ended in fast-break points. wow. how fun is that?

a rebound only means we get a chance to score and nothing is guaranteed. as i said a week ago, if we blocked 9 or 10 times a game, it negates the need to be a 3-point team. we are still frighteningly athletic, even with raja a little slower. shawn has not lost a step. amare has gained one from last year. leandro and boris are better. lb just because and boris because he came into camp fit. skinner is twice as athletic as thomas was and grant hill looks like he's drinking the water nash has since '05. if we played dj or marcus, we're even more athletic. we aren't slower.

"really, misteradiant," you say. yes. this is why:

i love when i'm watching a game and they show how many points there are in the paint, and the suns are +10 or more in the first half. who needs 3s then? when we made 3s, we were not the #1 shot blocking team in the league, like we are today, or anywhere close, and we never led in points in the paint. if any of you geeks want to stat the points in the paint ratio to wins and losses, that would be cool. until then, it is my guess that we beat san antonio in the paint and we didn't beat the lakers there. the point is that we are big enough to win the paint against big guys like duncan, so we should be able to against bynum and chandler.

so keep crying about the phantom big we will never get, and that we are not hitting from outside like we're used to oe, i reply that we still lead the league in scoring like we're used to. we are just getting the points in other ways. you and a few others cannot accept the new ways and want to make the team something else. i see that they are what they are, a smarter team with more slashing to the basket for dunks and lay-ups. i see a shot-blocking team who alters shots in the paint. i see four more months of basketball to build on these things. if the suns do, and if they recognize the change in our team and not force issues like threes, but on blocks and fast breaks from those, then this is a team that can win the championship.

it's funny, because people are saying we should just admit we can't win the championship this year. they are also the same people saying we need to hit our threes and it's a problem that we aren't. they say we need yet another big/center. not a point guard. not a power forward. a center. they say we can't win without one. but they don't notice we have averaged 9.4 blocks a game for the past 10 games. they haven't noticed that exactly what i said the suns should do over a week ago is happening. they don't think blocks and a slashing game in the paint will do with isolations for grant and pick-n-rolls for amare. they think we can't win it all.

i disagree. i vote for the team to figure it out by april.

we are not slower. it takes longer to score in the paint. that makes the suns seem slower. we are actually getting more shot attempts this year than last (85.1 this year from 83.6 last year).

on that note, that our shooting sucks, we are shooting 49.3%. last year we shot 49.4%. if you're going to bitch about one tenth of one percent, then just pay for a blowjob if you can't get one free and relax. things are not so astray, we are not slower, and we have as good a chance to win it all this year as we've had since steve came back.

as for the killer instinct that the team seems to be missing, that's a valid observation. in 4 months, i'm guessing they'll have it. i am going to even say that the suns will beat the lakers when we meet them next, which is january 17th in l.a. i put all of this on amare's shoulders. i believe he can do that "team on my shoulders" thing and will us to victory by being a dominating force on both ends of the floor. he has to do things like that to be an all star this year.

regarding coach's remarks about those first 6 plays for amare on the clippers' court, well, it seems he's either being coy or he's a dumbass. i think it's neither. if we could see a vid of the question asked and how mike answers, with inflections and body gestures, we might deduce the nature of the statement. my guess is that mike is straight-forward and the quote means exactly what it says. that does not mean he didn't learn from that game. it means that maybe he hasn't understood that we are no longer run and gun. we're slash and burn. i like that better. it goes well with the whole fire/phoenix thing the team promotes.

slash and burn. yeah. it doesn't rhyme with fun, but it doesn't have to. there is nothing fun about this any more, is there people? now it's just war.

i wish steve would invite amare over for dinner. i think their relationship is strained. when steve was signed, amare was part of the party that went to dallas to ask him to come to the suns. amare told steve he wanted to play with him. steve is the wise vet who should just walk up to amare now and invite him over to dinner. they ought to talk about basketball and how they can team up to make their team better. steve could tell amare he'd like him to be engaged all the time and amare can say okay, then look for me twenty times a game. not that it would ever happen, but a guy can dream.

the game i'm most looking forward to coming up is denver on monday the 7th. they're the #2 shot blocking team and #3 in points-per-game.

slash and burn. recognize our components' obvious fit and play them accordingly with a violent slogan the pundits can repeat on national tv. we don't gun, we slash. we don't run, we burn everything in our wake. it all starts with a blocked shot. the opponent can't score on us and they can't stop us from scoring inside on them, all in two plays. slash (block) and burn (rebound and lay-up or dunk). how's that for smart?

motherfuckers.

see angie for that twenty bucks, mister gentry.


This is the greatest MR post ever. Can i get this in platinum?

You just got me pumped for the Suns all over again.

Slash and Burn, motherfuckers.

[Spanky]

I'm just going to piss over here behind this dumpster, ok? Piss flying everywhere. :D

[Phoenix219]

So i guess Bill Walton is Yoda now? Knows all, does he?

2 assists + 5 points = 9)

Not if those assists are setting up 3pt shots. He made a great cross court pass out of the post to Barbs on the wing for a 3 last night. We were able to work inside-out from the post, it opened up a shooter and we got a 3 in the halfcourt set. Funny how that works huh? Much better than penetrate-kick, penetrate-kick, penetrate-kick and then Grant Hill is bricking a 25ft 3 from the wing.

in 05-06 he averaged 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 block, 1 steal and 13 points.
last night he averaged 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals and 8 points.

Well, in 05-06 he averaged about 36mpg. Last night he played 29, so id say he was right in line to make that average from 2 years ago had he played a few more minutes.

i couldn't read on.

Too bad...if u did, you wouldve seen this and been enlightened:


we score 110ppg, have the league leader in assists, a dominant paint player in Amare, a rebounder in Shawn, a scorer/slasher in Hill and straight scorer in Barbs. We added Skinner to give us a defensive presence, rebounder and shotblocker. You cant look at Boris and say, he should be giving us 15-6-6 if he gets his minutes. It just might not be possible cuz there are only so many minutes in a game and so much he can do given the talent on the team. So if he can "only" get 8-4-4 playing the way he did last night, does it mean he sucks or isnt trying? You need roleplayers to fill the gaps which is why Skinner looks so good for us right now. Boris' contract makes him a target obviously, so you hope he at least plays well and helps us in games even if the numbers arent gaudy and eyepopping.

poor boris. "if you're gonna suck for two months, i'm gonna freeze you out," steve seems to say. good for steve. he thinks "fuck boris," too.

When i saw his teammates looking him off, i actually was thinking the same thing. I dont doubt his teammates are pissed, feel let down, are annoyed, or just frustrated with Boris. When Stevie makes those comments about guys not coming to play or trying hard, yea, hes probably talking about Boris. But i never thought id see a guy like Stevie deliberately looking off an open teammate just to teach them a lesson. I sincerely hope thats not the case. But if it is, thank god for Grant Hill. Hes worth his weight in gold this year and having a vet like him to kind of look past all that other stuff and try to work with a teammate rather than work against him is huge. I did get the feeling last night like Hill was seeking Boris out and bringing the best out in him. Hopefully Hill has Boris' ear and can maybe bring him along a bit, take him under his wing so to speak.

That would be twice now that Hill has played mediator - once with Shawn at the beginning of the year, now with Diaw.

Go Hill.

Anyways, on the whole Boris deal, wasn't part of the reason we gave him the big contract INJURY INSURANCE in case Amare couldn't come back? And with Amare here, we can't expect him to average what he was? But if Amare goes down, we still have Boris to stick in there and return to '05 form? Isn't that the point? We're getting less production, yes, but if you subtract (whatever million dollar amount you think is worth the INJURY INSURANCE ON AMARE which was the POINT), i bet it all rounds out about right...

so how about a lineup of: Nash/Barbs/Marion/Amare/Skinner - using Barbs offense to offset Skinner, letting us go to Amare and get the block party going early in the game, and get Barbs heated up nicely.... then bringing Raja, Hill and Boris in together, Hill playing point forward, opening up things plying the two man game with Boris, with Raja for defense, and possibly Banks getting some burn, in a probable more half-court style offense for Boris (footwork/postwork) and Hill (midrange/slashing) Banks (penetrate and get fouled type of marbury plays) Raja (3 point shooting but lock down defender) - really get the other team on the ropes defensively after the starters (barbs/Shawn/Amare/nash) tore it up offensively with pick and rolls, fast breaks, 3's, typical suns ball.....

sounds too good to be true don't it?

[ShelC]

Anyways, on the whole Boris deal, wasn't part of the reason we gave him the big contract INJURY INSURANCE in case Amare couldn't come back? And with Amare here, we can't expect him to average what he was? But if Amare goes down, we still have Boris to stick in there and return to '05 form? Isn't that the point? We're getting less production, yes, but if you subtract (whatever million dollar amount you think is worth the INJURY INSURANCE ON AMARE which was the POINT), i bet it all rounds out about right...

That wasnt part of my original post....

[ethan_cohen]

Thanks for the avatar love Mr. That's my son. His name is Charlie.

The Bill pic was not from Lost in Translation though. It was from Rushmore, a much better movie than Translation.

[Phoenix219]

I think we're mixing up the fact that Banks can score with his true effect on the court. I don't give a rat's keister if Banks drops 42 on another team.... if they score 62 points while he's in it still means everyone else on the team has to dig us out of a 20 point hole. Most of the time when Banks goes in, we end up in said hole. Banks is the anti-KT. I used to remark that a lot of KT's effect didn't end up in any box score, but when he was on the court good things always seemed to happen. When Banks is on the court, only bad things seem to happen. The offense stagnates, and our opponent ends up getting a lot of easy looks at the hoop.

It's not so much that DJ and Tucker have earned time on the court, it's that Banks has earned bench time.

I only want to see Banks for a few games right now in Raja's role so that we can rest Raja for a week or two, but I am definitely not a fan of Banks as Nash's backup. I like the KT comparison, but with Marks alongside Nash in Rajas role or as a backup for Barbosa in Rajas role, he couldnt possible bog down the offense too much and we should still be able to win a few games with the relatively weak upcoming schedule. Banks could even help us out with a few threes which Raja wouldnt hit right now...

Haha. marks playing 2 guard. This i'd LOVE to see.

(i know u meant banks, its just funny)

[Phoenix219]

Shel - that was one of MY posts - i'm trying to figure out how the hell it ended up in the middle of yours. Weeeeeeeeeeird.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Damn. This Thread has turned into a snooze fest.

Radiant, Please stop making posts that take up nearly a whole page of a thread. YIKES!

That's why I said move on nothing to see here folks..They killed this thread

[misteradiant]

slash and burn.

This is the greatest MR post ever. Can i get this in platinum?

You just got me pumped for the Suns all over again.

Slash and Burn, motherfuckers.

aw shucks, 219. you went and made me blush and then gush to my family about how cool i am. seems amare and coach aren't the only ones with egos. glad you dig my stuff, dude. i'm thankful to get someone excited about the suns. it's fun.

bartendender, 219's next round is on me.

:cool:

[misteradiant]

Thanks for the avatar love Mr. That's my son. His name is Charlie.

The Bill pic was not from Lost in Translation though. It was from Rushmore, a much better movie than Translation.

charlie looks like a happy boy.

that'll learn me. i swore it was from translation. and how can rushmore be better? scarlett johansson wasn't in it.

;)

[misteradiant]

Damn. This Thread has turned into a snooze fest.

Radiant, Please stop making posts that take up nearly a whole page of a thread. YIKES!

That's why I said move on nothing to see here folks..They killed this thread

tbr, why don't you come up with a trade scenario for this 2-day old news thread and keep it alive man!

and sf4l, i can't help if you you read my posts and don't like what you see. i am not here to plase you, but am to please myself. i don't come here with some grand notion that everybody has to like what i lay down. if some don't, what do i care? i probably don't care for their incessant trade scenario mongering. i'd call it even. and hey, if you don't like my stuff but still read it all, you are either too medicated or not medicated enough. that, or you like being spanked. the message boards for submissives on bondage.com might be more to your liking.

:lol:

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Mister I don't know if I can...I hope we get another Big Mccoy just got released, but i'm with you on feeding Amare..I hope Nash will play smarter like stockton...Feed the beast!

[misteradiant]

slash and burn, tbr. i don't like mccoy and don't think we need him. why in hell would coach give a guy like that minutes? and what makes you think he would? we've got who we've got. slash and burn means nash gets the ball to amare a lot. see what i post later in today's news thread about what i read in today's paper.

[Nate]

I only want to see Banks for a few games right now in Raja's role so that we can rest Raja for a week or two, but I am definitely not a fan of Banks as Nash's backup. I like the KT comparison, but with Marks alongside Nash in Rajas role or as a backup for Barbosa in Rajas role, he couldnt possible bog down the offense too much and we should still be able to win a few games with the relatively weak upcoming schedule. Banks could even help us out with a few threes which Raja wouldnt hit right now...

Haha. marks playing 2 guard. This i'd LOVE to see.

(i know u meant banks, its just funny)


Didnt D'Antoni say sth about changing strategies and trying sth new? :wink:

[Superbone]

Didnt D'Antoni say sth about changing strategies and trying sth new? :wink:

Nate, I keep seeing sth in your post. What is it?

[misteradiant]

exactly what i was wondering, what's a sth? my guess was that it was an abbreviation for the word something. if that was the case, i was disgusted by the laziness and couldn't bring myself to ask, superbone. but since you did....

[Nate]

Sth is indeed meaning something and partly lazyness and partly just a habit. A few years ago I assisted in reviewing lots and lots of English, German and French language elementary school books in how they presented different aspects of language to school children. A common feature in most of the English Course Books for German children was the constant use of the abbreviation sth or similar ones like sb(somebody), ab(anybody) and others in order to save space. Since then I often use sth and sb without thinking too much about it.

[Superbone]

Sth is indeed meaning something and partly lazyness and partly just a habit. A few years ago I assisted in reviewing lots and lots of English, German and French language elementary school books in how they presented different aspects of language to school children. A common feature in most of the English Course Books for German children was the constant use of the abbreviation sth or similar ones like sb(somebody), ab(anybody) and others in order to save space. Since then I often use sth and sb without thinking too much about it.

Heh. That was a new one for this English speaker. Wow, that course book paper must have cost a small fortune!

[misteradiant]

velly intelesting. so much makes more sense now. :)

[Nate]

Ich hab Euch auch lieb!:mrgreen:

[SwingMan]

Huh?

[LazarusLong]

Malachi 1:2

[SwingMan]

Huh?

[Superbone]

I've learned in post making never to alienate the audience. Otherwise, I would be like Dimitri in La Condition Humaine...

[LazarusLong]

literally translated, it means : "I love you also."

Malachi 1:2 refers to a similarly worded Bible passage, in German.

[SwingMan]

I guess the backwoods ain't all it's cracked up to be.....

Thanks for enlightening us peasants, fellas.

Now, back to "jackass 2.5" .....

[misteradiant]

as a talk show host from the 70's might say, smiling:
right back atcha!

:cool: