Game Day: SUNS @ Clippers...

[MTSunsFan]

Beat (the other) L.A.!!!

Dis∙cuss

[MTSunsFan]

Preview:


Phoenix (19-9) at LA Clippers (9-17)

Preview - Box Score - Recap

Game Info: 10:30 pm EST Thu Dec 27, 2007
TV: My45, FSPT Add to Calendar
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By ANTHONY GIORNALISTA, STATS Senior Writer

Poor interior defense is partly to blame for the Phoenix Suns' recent struggles. A matchup with Chris Kaman isn't likely to help.

The Suns seek to bounce back from yet another road loss when they return to Staples Center to face the last-place Los Angeles Clippers on Thursday night, when they'll have to contend with Kaman in the paint.

Phoenix's lead in the Pacific Division was cut to one game after a 122-115 loss to the second-place Los Angeles Lakers at Staples Center on Tuesday. It was the Suns' fourth loss in their last five games on the road, and they have dropped five of eight overall.

"We haven't played that great and we are still right there," Phoenix swingman Grant Hill said. "We are due for a little run."

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The Suns (19-9), though, need to do a better job of battling in the paint. Lakers center Andrew Bynum had 28 points and 12 rebounds Tuesday in the latest outstanding performance by a big man against Phoenix.

Last Saturday, Phoenix beat Toronto 122-103, but allowed forward Chris Bosh to score 42 points and grab 13 rebounds. The Suns also let Tim Duncan get 36 points and 17 boards in Phoenix's 100-95 win at San Antonio on Dec. 17.

Next up for the Suns is Kaman, the Clippers' emerging center. Kaman had 17 points, 14 rebounds and four blocks against Phoenix on Nov. 23 in the teams' first meeting this season, but the Suns won 113-94.

Kaman has flourished in developing into one of the NBA's top centers, averaging 18.6 points, 10.7 rebounds and 2.8 blocks per game. Injury-riddled Los Angeles (9-17) has leaned heavily on Kaman, who has had 12 straight double-doubles.

The Clippers don't have much else going for them.

Starting forward Corey Maggette (knee) sat out Saturday's 99-90 loss to San Antonio, and his status for Thursday is uncertain. He is averaging 20.3 points and 6.4 rebounds per game.

Rookie Al Thornton stepped in for Maggette, finishing with 25 points in his second career start.

Already thin at forward, Tim Thomas sprained his left knee in the first quarter against the Spurs and is listed as day-to-day for Thursday's contest. Thomas is averaging 12.6 points and 5.2 rebounds per game.

Even before those injuries, the Clippers were already without guard Shaun Livingston and forward Elton Brand. Paul Davis, meanwhile, is out indefinitely after hurting his right knee in a loss to Dallas on Friday night.

Los Angeles, however, did have Sam Cassell back Saturday for the first time since Nov. 26. The veteran guard, who had sat out with a strained left calf, had six points in nine minutes, with Brevin Knight starting at point guard again.

Knight and Cassell will have the daunting task of guarding Phoenix's Steve Nash, who had 20 points and 10 assists versus Los Angeles in the teams' November matchup. Nash bounced back from a seven-point effort in a win over Toronto on Saturday night by finishing with 24 points and 14 assists against the Lakers.

Six of Nash's teammates scored in double figures, including Hill (14). Hill, who has been hampered by injuries throughout his career, started his 27th consecutive game to open the season for his longest such streak since playing the first 39 games for Detroit eight years ago.

Hill is averaging 17.5 points while shooting 59.1 percent (26-for-44) from the floor in his last four games.


Updated on Wednesday, Dec 26, 2007 6:15 pm, EST

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Team Comparison
Team Record Standings PF PA Road/Home Streak L10
Phoenix 19-9 1st Pacific / 2nd West 109.7 104.9 Road 11-6 Lost 1 5-5
LA Clippers 9-17 5th Pacific / 12th West 93.3 98.2 Home 4-8 Lost 4 3-7

Phoenix Notes
Dec 25 Phoenix had won 10 of the last 13 regular-season meetings against the Lakers before dropping Tuesday's game. ... Tuesday marked the 16th time in franchise history that the Suns played on Christmas day, just the fourth time since the 1993-94 season. ... With 14 assists against the Lakers, Steve Nash sits one assist shy of passing former Laker Jerry West for 23rd on the NBA's all-time assist list.

LA Clippers Notes
Dec 23 3 Next Game: vs. Phoenix, December 27
F Tim Thomas fell awkwardly with 6:38 left in the first quarter. He could not put any pressure on his left ankle and had to be helped off the court by teammates. ... F Corey Magette also missed the game with a sore right knee. ... The Clippers have lost 10 straight games in San Antonio.

st 12-23-07 1:55 et

[Shabazz]

What's the over/under on how many rebounds Kaman gets tonight? I'll put it at 18.5 and take the over.

[SwingMan]

30,000.....

[Bogyo]

I hope MT is better in creating gameday threads than I was last time...

Suns respond, blow out the Clips 109 - 98.

[Xcon]

Bets on the caveman having a career night anyone?

[Superbone]

Bets on the caveman having a career night anyone?

I say he gets winded and craps out in the 4th.

[MTSunsFan]

You driving up for the game tonight, sup? Or taking in the Holiday Bowl perhaps?

[cap]

I’m having a hard time getting excited about this game.

We’ve had a very good record so far against lottery teams and the East.

But when it comes to playoff-caliber Western Conference teams that aren’t missing an All-Star to injury, we have won only one such game all season (and I’m being generous to Utah, considering that it was their fifth of six straight losses).

A win tonight is nice, but it’s a game we should win. It does nothing to convince me that we can actually play with the big boys.

[ShelC]

A win tonight is nice, but it’s a game we should win.

Thats exactly how we need to approach these games. Anything can happen on any given night. Upsets occur. But these are the games we need to win convincingly; that doesnt necessarily mean winning by 25 in a blowout, but having control of the game throughout and winning by 100-14pts.

[Superbone]

You driving up for the game tonight, sup? Or taking in the Holiday Bowl perhaps?

Nah, I wish. I've got to work.

I'll just be enjoying from the comfort of my couch tonight.

[MTSunsFan]

You driving up for the game tonight, sup? Or taking in the Holiday Bowl perhaps?

Nah, I wish. I've got to work.

I'll just be enjoying from the comfort of my couch tonight.

I hear ya. So will you be watching the Suns or the Scum Devils???

[Superbone]

You driving up for the game tonight, sup? Or taking in the Holiday Bowl perhaps?

Nah, I wish. I've got to work.

I'll just be enjoying from the comfort of my couch tonight.

I hear ya. So will you be watching the Suns or the Scum Devils???

Definitely the Suns. I may check out the Devils with a passing interest (no pun intended.)

[BobbyDogg]

A win tonight is nice, but it’s a game we should win.

Thats exactly how we need to approach these games. Anything can happen on any given night. Upsets occur. But these are the games we need to win convincingly; that doesnt necessarily mean winning by 25 in a blowout, but having control of the game throughout and winning by 100-14pts.


Exactly.

Control the game and take this opportunity to work on deficiencies, like rebounding and defense.

GET AMARE THE BALL

[sehan]

I’m having a hard time getting excited about this game.

I agree CAP, just another game in the 82. Play-offs can't get here fast enough. We feel like this as a fan, its got to be 10 times worse for the players.

Can we really blame them for taking nights off?

I know I sure have off days on the job.

[ShelC]

Thats part of the mental make-up of a champion. How do the Spurs feel? They do it every year just the same. They know theyre the ones to beat, they have the banners, theyre making the playoffs. Yet, they still approach the regular season with a workman-like, machine-like regularity and consistancy. Why cant we just put our heads down and go to work? Why do we have to live and die with each regular season game? Why do we feel like we've earned the right to skip the regular season and just get to the playoffs to claim what we think should be ours?

[Superbone]

I don't know what everybody's problems is. I'm looking forward to watching the game. It's all a part of the process. It's a journey, fellas. It doesn't happen over night. We're not 15-13, we're 19-9. Buck up!

[cap]

We're not 15-13, we're 19-9.

Indeed. We’re a good team, a lock to make the playoffs, and probably a top-4 seed. For fans of a lot of teams in this league, that would be enough to have them dancing in the streets.

But we were sold a different bill of goods coming into the season. We were promised a championship contender. The product we’ve been given is, realistically speaking, not in the championship hunt. So it’s a bit of a disappointment.

[jkalldaway]

WOOOOOOW. Getting Amare the ball, going inside out and he has 11, 3, and 3; 5 minutes in.

[SunsFan4Life]

Looks like the Suns acually meant what they said this time.

Amare got the first like 6 or 7 shots of the game. And becaose of that His D against Kaman has been great early

[gladiator]

Looks like the Suns acually meant what they said this time.

Amare got the first like 6 or 7 shots of the game. And becaose of that His D against Kaman has been great early

And then gets subbed out. Wouldn't you keep going to him while he's hot and hasn't picked up a foul yet??

[Wormwood]

We're not 15-13, we're 19-9.

Indeed. We’re a good team, a lock to make the playoffs, and probably a top-4 seed. For fans of a lot of teams in this league, that would be enough to have them dancing in the streets.

But we were sold a different bill of goods coming into the season. We were promised a championship contender. The product we’ve been given is, realistically speaking, not in the championship hunt. So it’s a bit of a disappointment.

We've mortgaged our entire future for one more run. We've coughed up more draft picks than Minny did for the Joe Smith fiasco. Of course we're demanding success.

This is it. No mas. We're looking at an extended period of extreme suckage if there's no championship this year.

[illmatic]

Go Amare! Carry this team on your back.

[bobster]

We've mortgaged our entire future for one more run. We've coughed up more draft picks than Minny did for the Joe Smith fiasco. Of course we're demanding success.

probably a bit of an overstatement. they still have young talent and future picks. i just don't think the pieces they have right now are fitting together to well. there's just been to much emphasis on small ball and not enough on being able to defend inside.

[Wormwood]

With the way Skinner is playing, someone remind me why Diaw is getting 25-30 mpg?

[Phoenix219]

Going inside out might actually get our perimeter and running game going. Whatever it takes to get pressure off the 3 point shooters so we can hit 3 point shots is going to make all the difference for us, even if it means running the offense thru Diaw/Hill and using Nash as a 3 point shooter at times.

[bobster]

amare - 20 pts, 9 reb, 4 blk with 2:49 left until halftime.

[Phoenix219]

Why, what is Skinner doing? Game updates for the less fortunate please :)

[illmatic]

Bobster those stats are good enough to finish a game up with, let alone the 1st half.

[Wormwood]

Skinner's just really active, going after every loose ball, setting HARD picks, keeping Kaman off the boards, altering shots, got a brutal dunk off a Nash pick and roll. In 13 minutes of play he's a +15. The guy's definitely earning more burn.

Diaw, however, is the only one with a negative +/- right now. He's doing nothing for us right now, particularly in the areas where we need the most help (defense, rebounding).

[bobster]

Bobster those stats are good enough to finish a game up with, let alone the 1st half.

well he finished the half with 20 pts on 6/9 shooting with 11 rebounds and 4 blocks, so no complaints here.

skinner and amare did a great job of defending the basket, and the suns already have 8 blocks.

also, the suns have done a decent job on the boards [24-22, but the clips have 11 offensive boards], and caveman has been pretty much invisible - 1/11 from the field, 2 pts, 5 reb, 4 turnovers.

[Phoenix219]

In general, things are looking good tonight? Whats the score? How are the 3 point shooters? Any bench players show up? How's Steve and Raja doing considering the injuries? Any energy from Shawn tonight?

[bobster]

In general, things are looking good tonight?

things are looking really good at halftime. the clippers were held to 40 points and 31% shooting

Whats the score?

59-40.

How are the 3 point shooters?

barbosa has shot them well - and the suns are 3/9 over all.

Any bench players show up?

barbosa [10 points] and skinner.

How's Steve and Raja doing considering the injuries?

fair game from nash - 3 pts, 7 ast; bell struggling a bit - 2 pts, 1/4 shooting, 3 fouls.

Any energy from Shawn tonight?

yes, but one memorable bonehead play - he missed a wide open layup and then fouled a clipper while the suns were in the penalty - a four-point turnaround. he has 9 pts, but only 2 rebs.

[bobster]

great start to the 2nd half.

[ethan_cohen]

Diaw played 4 minutes. I'm not a Diaw fan, but hard to fault a guy for not making an impact in 4 minutes.

Having said that, Amare certainly did just that (6 actually). Nice to see him back his talk up with real action.

I feel pretty much like Cap does. The games aren't fun. I always feel like we're toying with a loss. There's no swagger. It feels frantic and we're surviving on talent , not cohesion.

And as far as enjoying the ride or feeling fortunate to have this record, I'm calling ass. I've supported this team since Jeff Cook rocked the short shorts. We've suffered enough. They have the talent, they just need the heart and the unity. Anyone who thinks I'm being unreasonable to EXPECT a championship hasn't whethered the storm as long.

[bobster]

amare must have eaten some nails for breakfast today.

[bobster]

god, you have to feel sorry for kaman tonight. he's just looking horrible.

[Phoenix219]

Completely off topic, but over the holidays I was at my grandparents and spent a lot of time doing nothign but watching tv (they have cable; i don't..)... monday they were playing a Suns/Lakers Game 5 from 1990 on one of the classic broadcasts. I didn't start watching until the '93 squad, and honestly had no idea how we fared that year in the playoffs; I watched that whole game convinced that it was being shown out of Lakers love, and although i knew the outcome was 17 years in the past, spent the whole 4th quarter frantically watching some of my favorite players of all time, and a few i had no idea about. It was definately an experience. Great game! Then the current squad gets beat by the Lakers the next day. hah.

[bobster]

15-1 run to start the third quarter.

the clippers are resorting to one-on-one basketball, while the suns are running the court for some easy baskets and moving the ball really well.

the clippers are down to 27% shooting, kaman is 1 for 12.

[RDM2]

Did Leander just say 'fucker' coming back from commercial? Did anyone else hear that?

[bobster]

79-43.

[bobster]

Did Leander just say 'fucker' coming back from commercial? Did anyone else hear that?

i heard somebody say it.

[Wormwood]

It's great to see us massacring an inferior team the way we're supposed to. We're up by 36 mi-way through the 3rd.

[Phoenix219]

Holy shit. :D nice to hear. HAHA if Leander did.... :D key components of the 15-1 run?

Better see Tucker out there soon. preferably with nash or hill.

[Phoenix219]

What was the context of the word "fucker" hahahaha

[RDM2]

All that happened was, Jack in the Box commercial ending. Shot of the Clippers Home Court, Leander: Fucker. .... *dead silence for 5 seconds* Then Leander and Dan welcoming viewers back to the show.

[bobster]

well, the 36 point lead is down to 29 as they're starting to lose interest on defense.

[desertcoast]

amare must have eaten some nails for breakfast today.

or worse, he read this board :wink:

[Phoenix219]

Wouldn't that be great though? To take credit, by our own comments and hate / advice on Amare, for him stepping up for whaetver reason, whether it be wounded pride, or whatever? Hehe.

[Phoenix219]

Wow for a blowout i was hoping for more people posting.

[Wormwood]

WTF? We put Pike in the game before Tucker, and he ends up guarding Magette. Result? Pike dribbled it out of bounds, and then fouls Magette for the "and one." Aren't we supposed to use garbage minutes like this to develop Tucker and DJ?

[Wormwood]

Marks, Diaw, Banks, Pike, and Barbs playing with 3:30 left.

[bobster]

WTF? We put Pike in the game before Tucker, and he ends up guarding Magette. Result? Pike dribbled it out of bounds, and then fouls Magette for the "and one." Aren't we supposed to use garbage minutes like this to develop Tucker and DJ?

pike probably deserves some playing time since he spent the majority of his career with the clips.

[RDM2]

Always enjoy seeing Pike get out there. Glad hes getting a good solid quarter rather than a few garbage minutes.

[bobster]

amare's final numbers -

26:30 minutes played, 11/14 fg, 8/10 ft, 30 points, 15 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 blocks

[Wormwood]

Sorry, I just can't enjoy seeing Pike get minutes. He just doesn't have the speed to defend anyone, and gets killed out there. It's like watching an armadillo wander onto I-10. You only enjoy watching the result if you're sick.

As for the rest of the team, great to see us destroy the Clippers the way a good team should. We'll have plenty left in the tank for tomorrow night. Amare was a freaking beast out there. Why can't he do that almost every night?

[frezix]

Wow for a blowout i was hoping for more people posting.

why? most are just waiting to bash this team and call for the coaches head. They'll bide their time until our next loss, and come up with multiple retarded trade scenarios trying to bring in has-beens and players that aren't as talented as the ones we already have.

[k_kwan]

Sorry, I just can't enjoy seeing Pike get minutes. He just doesn't have the speed to defend anyone, and gets killed out there. It's like watching an armadillo wander onto I-10. You only enjoy watching the result if you're sick.

As for the rest of the team, great to see us destroy the Clippers the way a good team should. We'll have plenty left in the tank for tomorrow night. Amare was a freaking beast out there. Why can't he do that almost every night?

Regarding your question as to why cant Amare play like this every night, I fully believe ties into why the Suns are in the rut that they are in. If the coaches and the team figure that out, which I believe they will this will be the team we expected a chip from.

[k_kwan]

Wow for a blowout i was hoping for more people posting.

why? most are just waiting to bash this team and call for the coaches head. They'll bide their time until our next loss, and come up with multiple retarded trade scenarios trying to bring in has-beens and players that aren't as talented as the ones we already have.

I couldnt agree with this comment more.....

[bobster]

i don't really think +/- stats are always that telling [a great deal depends on the other 9 players on the floor] but here are a few impressive ones from tonight -

grant hill +37 [24:28 minutes played]
amare stoudemire +32 [26:30 minutes played]

hill had another workman-like night - 7/10 fg, 16 pts, 3 reb, 3 ast, 3 blk.

you just have to love the way the guy plays - he doesn't have to dominate the ball to contribute, he plays hard, is still a good defensive player and is the consummate professional.

[bobster]

Amare was a freaking beast out there. Why can't he do that almost every night?

half of it is because the coaches don't look to establish him at the beginning of every game. the other half is because amare doesn't demand the ball.

tonight he wanted the ball from the start, was aggressive, had his shot going and didn't let up.

[sunsdotcom]

nice game. but the other team's frontline is decimated.

i would still like to see dantoni start diaw. doesn't mean he deserves it. just want to shake things up and see if playing with nash could improve his shooting. his aggressiveness is already there. and let diaw take the tougher assignment of guarding bigs.

besides, grant hill will get his minutes even if he is relegated to sub, and will be part of the 4th qtr five.

[cap]

We've mortgaged our entire future for one more run. We've coughed up more draft picks than Minny did for the Joe Smith fiasco. Of course we're demanding success.

probably a bit of an overstatement. they still have young talent and future picks.

When you’re talking about being prepared for the future, you’re talking for the most part about three things:

1. young talent (preferably under long-term contract)
2. draft picks
3. salary cap flexibility

With regard to #1, young talent: We have Amare Stoudemire, who is a perennial All-Star, but is not becoming the dominant force we used to expect, and his future is in question because of his knees. We have Leandro Barbosa, who is a nice young player under a reasonable contract. We have a couple of rookies who won’t be making any impact in the NBA any time in the forseeable future. And that’s about it.

With regard to #2, draft picks: We have Atlanta’s pick this year (looks to be mid-teens), and one of our own next three.

With regard to #3, salary cap flexibility: We have $49.4M over the next four years tied up in the contracts of Boris Diaw and Marcus Banks.

When you look at the sum total of the three factors, how many of the NBA’s 30 teams do you think are doing worse than we are?

[bobster]

When you look at the sum total of the three factors, how many of the NBA’s 30 teams do you think are doing worse than we are?

well, for one, the knicks. :)

the only thing that really worries me is the bad contracts - especially banks' deal.

a lot depends on what they do when marion's contract runs out. do they extend him for big bucks? do they let him walk? that would certainly help them out cap wise.

teams can't afford a lot of bad deals, and will marion's play really justify big money 3 or 4 years from now?

[sunsdotcom]

We're not 15-13, we're 19-9.

Indeed. We’re a good team, a lock to make the playoffs, and probably a top-4 seed. For fans of a lot of teams in this league, that would be enough to have them dancing in the streets.

But we were sold a different bill of goods coming into the season. We were promised a championship contender. The product we’ve been given is, realistically speaking, not in the championship hunt. So it’s a bit of a disappointment.

it's all about expectations. if fans here realize that we are not as good as we think we are, then maybe we'll be able to relax more and enjoy the games. ;)

btw, i don't think it's a good idea to fire dantoni unless we have somebody better to replace him. i don't see anybody out there right now.

[bobster]

as for future picks [a few of these are conditional, but these are the most likely picks] -

2008 suns #1 - traded to seattle [kurt thomas trade]
2008 hawks #1 - acquired from atlanta [joe johnson trade]
2008 suns #2 - traded to indiana [james jones trade]
2008 magic #2 - acquired from seattle [kurt thomas trade, conditional]
2008 cavaliers #2 - acquired from cleveland [milt palacio trade]

2009 suns #1
2009 suns #2
2009 warriors #2 - acquired from golden state [zarko cabarkapa trade]

2010 suns #1 - traded to seattle [kurt thomas trade]
2010 suns #2

2011 - suns #1
2011 - suns #2

[cap]

well, for one, the knicks. :)
I knew you were going to say that.


it's all about expectations. if fans here realize that we are not as good as we think we are, then maybe we'll be able to relax more and enjoy the games. ;)
True. In terms of regular season success and championship prospects, this team is about on a par with the 1988-89 team, and I had a great time that season!

Two major factors that team had going for it that this team doesn’t: Surprise. We came out of nowhere that season to join the NBA’s elite. This season, we were expected to contend for a championship.

Youth. KJ, Hornacek, and Thunder Dan were all in their first three seasons. We could only expect greater things from them in the future. By contrast, with the current team, we cannot say that tomorrow looks brighter than today.

[bobster]

well, for one, the knicks. :)
I knew you were going to say that.

well, that's a certainty if they keep isiah, right?

using 20/20 hindsight the money on barbosa was well-spent, the money on diaw should have gone to joe johnson and the money to banks should have stayed in their wallet.

realistically, the immediate future of this franchise depends on the health of steve nash's back and amare stoudemire's knees. if those two guys stay healthy you build around them and are a contender. if one or the other breaks down, then there's some serious issues.

[BobbyDogg]

Amare was a freaking beast out there. Why can't he do that almost every night?

half of it is because the coaches don't look to establish him at the beginning of every game. the other half is because amare doesn't demand the ball.

tonight he wanted the ball from the start, was aggressive, had his shot going and didn't let up.

Yep.

Establish Amare on offense and defense early to get him going and let the others feed off of him. Then, let Nash do his thing when the defense is occupied by Amare and get the perimeter players going.

I was very happy to see the aggressive way the team played with, especially Amare but also Hill and Skinner.

The Clips are screwed due to their injuries and the Suns should beat them no matter what but the came out and controled the game from start to finish which is all we can ask of them.

Well done. Now, can we do it again?

[BobbyDogg]

Wow for a blowout i was hoping for more people posting.

why? most are just waiting to bash this team and call for the coaches head. They'll bide their time until our next loss, and come up with multiple retarded trade scenarios trying to bring in has-beens and players that aren't as talented as the ones we already have.

Alrighty then.

[JustWinBaby]

Another poor performance by Boris.

He looks like the kid whose mama is trying to make him eat Spinach for the first time.

This offensive and agressive thing is something Boris is having trouble with.

He is much more comfortable being his passive self.

[OE]

Wow for a blowout i was hoping for more people posting.

why? most are just waiting to bash this team and call for the coaches head. They'll bide their time until our next loss, and come up with multiple retarded trade scenarios trying to bring in has-beens and players that aren't as talented as the ones we already have.

We played great tonight. Good to see that we got Amare involved early and often. Pleasure to watch. Would have been nice to see Tucker get some minutes, but I really can't complain about this game.

But make no mistake: this does not make up for going 3-5 in the previous 8. We still need to make a move. Before you bash on those of us suggesting a trade, realize that half the Suns' front office wants to make a move as well. I think it ought to be Marion because he's the least useful with respect to his trade value - specifically, he can't hit the long-ball, and he plays out of position, which is no longer to our advantage, and Hill does the same slashing bit that he does with a developed offensive reertoire to boot.

If you think we should stay put on the basis of a victory over the Clippers, you're nuts.

You know, people post a lot when we play big games - win or lose. This doesn't qualify. I don't understand how there has developed this extraordinary sentiment against trade discussion when we're obviously underperforming in a year that many expected would yield a championship - or at least put us right at the doorstep for a fourth consecutive year. We have the talent, but it's not the right talent. Or haven't you been watching?

[sunsdotcom]

well, for one, the knicks. :)
I knew you were going to say that.


it's all about expectations. if fans here realize that we are not as good as we think we are, then maybe we'll be able to relax more and enjoy the games. ;)
True. In terms of regular season success and championship prospects, this team is about on a par with the 1988-89 team, and I had a great time that season![/list]

89-90 was better. i didn't expect that team to trounce the lakers in the WCSF after getting swept the prior year. our starting frontline was chambers, rambis (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CEFDD1F38F934A25756C0A9669582 60), west. their's was worthy, green, mychal thompson. we probably pounded them in the boards. maybe the loss of jabbar (to retirement) was a factor. they lost their best low post player, their sky hook. all they had left was run and gun, the best regular season record, the MVP, and coach of the year.

[SwingMan]

So the game was good, no?

Had to miss it due to work this evening.....

[sunsdotcom]

were the lakers soft inside then like we are now?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE5DB103DF933A25756C0A9669582 60

[Superbone]

And as far as enjoying the ride or feeling fortunate to have this record, I'm calling ass. I've supported this team since Jeff Cook rocked the short shorts. We've suffered enough. They have the talent, they just need the heart and the unity. Anyone who thinks I'm being unreasonable to EXPECT a championship hasn't whethered the storm as long.

I've supported the team quite a while longer yet I still don't EXPECT a championship. Do I want one? Of course. But there are a handful of teams that have a chance at it as well. Nothing is guaranteed. Now, do I EXPECT the team to give everything they've got, going after a championship? Yep.

[Phoenix219]

sdc, thats funny because i was just talking abuot game 5 of the playoffs that year earlier. God, I'd have loved to have seen KJ running Mike D's offense...!!!

[OE]

So the game was good, no?

Had to miss it due to work this evening.....

Yep. With the Clippers being so poor at sharing the ball, we were able to demonstrate some strong man defense. We played with energy on both ends. Grant went to the basket in the open floor and in the half-court, Amare dominated. We could do it every night if we had the shooters to spread the floor, and we could man up every night on D every night if every team was as bad at the Clippers on the offensive end. Fun to watch.

My favorite play was when Nash bounced ball off Amare's face. Very Cousy-esque.

[Superbone]

WTF? We put Pike in the game before Tucker, and he ends up guarding Magette. Result? Pike dribbled it out of bounds, and then fouls Magette for the "and one."

Don't forget the beautiful assist, falling out of bounds, to...

Richie Framm.

[Superbone]

Wow for a blowout i was hoping for more people posting.

why? most are just waiting to bash this team and call for the coaches head. They'll bide their time until our next loss, and come up with multiple retarded trade scenarios trying to bring in has-beens and players that aren't as talented as the ones we already have.

Bingo!

[Phoenix219]

well, for one, the knicks. :)
I knew you were going to say that.

well, that's a certainty if they keep isiah, right?

using 20/20 hindsight the money on barbosa was well-spent, the money on diaw should have gone to joe johnson and the money to banks should have stayed in their wallet.

realistically, the immediate future of this franchise depends on the health of steve nash's back and amare stoudemire's knees. if those two guys stay healthy you build around them and are a contender. if one or the other breaks down, then there's some serious issues.

God, I know we keep rehashing it to death, but the thought of JJ in place of Diaw with everything else the same gives me shivers. Nash/JJ/Hill/Marion/Amare with Bell/Barbs/Skinner... whewwww....

And the money to Banks, Pike and Marks could have been Tim Thomas, Diaw and Eddie House, ya know... since Diaw could have been had on the cheap.....

so imagine this one, for just about the same cap amount as we have now, with the same draft dumps for money and the KT trade and what not...

Nash/House/Straw
JJ/Bell/Barbs
Hill/Diaw/Tucker
Marion/Thomas
Amare/Skinner

damn...

[Phoenix219]

Quiet game from Shawn tonight, by his standards. Still, 5 boards, 4 assists, a steal, a block and 9 points on 4-6 shooting. Can't complain. Raja was off again, the man needs a break. Marcus Banks had 2 turnovers, but was a very solid 4-8 shooting (2-3 from 3 point) for 11 points and a steal in only 12 minutes.. He had 4 fouls and 2 turnovers, but they would go down with more playing time, and it looks like he could step up for Raja right now and let Barbs shine. Skinner was 3-4 with 7 points and 8 boards in 22 minutes.

We still lack the 3 point shooting we really need but if we keep going inside out they might start falling. Marion hit his ony 3 point attempt, Steve was 1-3, Raja was 0-3, Barbs was 2-5, and Banks was 2-3, making him our best 3 point shooter for the day.

Banks is looking more productive than Diaw (2-8, 4 boards, 1 steal, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, 6 points in 24 minutes). Contrasting, Barbs had 4 boards and 6 assists

Anyways, just some interesting stats to throw out there....

[cap]

You know, people post a lot when we play big games - win or lose.

Right, and we’ve been losing most of the big games this season, hence the “people only post when we lose” observation that some people use as an indictment of our posting habits.

Let’s define “Big Games” as games against playoff-caliber Western Conference teams. For purposes of this discussion, I’ll treat Boston and Detroit as Western Conference teams, because they’re really, really, good, and some Western Conference team will probably have to face one of them in the playoffs.

Big Games so far:



date opp note
------ ---- ---------------------------------------------
Nov 2 LAL L blowout on national TV
Nov 17 @HOU W Tracy McGrady out with injury
Nov 26 @GSW L ugly
Nov 28 HOU L I hate losing to these guys
Dec 12 UTA W 5th of 6 straight losses for Jazz; Okur out
Dec 15 @NOH L MVP pwn3d by CP3
Dec 17 @SAS W Tony Parker out with injury
Dec 19 @DAL L we looked pretty good for three quarters...
Dec 25 @LAL L Bynum deserves serious All-Star consideration


3-6, with the wins coming when we caught our opponents either missing an All-Star or in the midst of a sickening slump. This unimpressive record is what has inspired so much “negativity” on the board this season.


Big Games coming up:

Jan 5, vs NOH
Jan 10, @ UTA
Jan 17, @ LAL
Jan 31, vs SAS

Feb 6, vs NOH
Feb 13, @ GSW
Feb 14, vs DAL
Feb 20, vs LAL
Feb 22, vs BOS
Feb 24, vs DET
Feb 27, @ NOH

Mar 5, @ DEN
Mar 7, vs UTA
Mar 9, vs SAS
Mar 13, @ GSW
Mar 22, vs HOU
Mar 24, @ DET
Mar 26, @ BOS
Mar 31, vs DEN

Apr 1, @ DEN
Apr 6, vs DAL
Apr 9, @ SAS
Apr 11, @ HOU
Apr 14, vs GSW


Our schedule has been pretty light so far, with only nine Big Games played, and will continue to be light for a while, with only three more Big Games in the next 30 days. Then, starting on Jan 31, things get serious, and we average a couple of Big Games a week from then on. If our Big Game performance then matches our Big Game performance so far, things are going to get very, very ugly.

[OE]

Thank you, cap. As far as this season is concerned, calmness is symptomatic of denial. We're in trouble. It's not the fans going insane, it's the team going south. But it's good to see Amare go off. It gives me hope. I just hope we make what adjustment is necessary sooner rather than later so that we're in good form by the time playoffs roll around.

[Bogyo]

OE, couldn't agree more with everything you said in your 2 previuos posts!!!

Read them, breate in, breathe out, count to ten and let reality sink in people...

[frezix]

Wow for a blowout i was hoping for more people posting.

why? most are just waiting to bash this team and call for the coaches head. They'll bide their time until our next loss, and come up with multiple retarded trade scenarios trying to bring in has-beens and players that aren't as talented as the ones we already have.

We played great tonight. Good to see that we got Amare involved early and often. Pleasure to watch. Would have been nice to see Tucker get some minutes, but I really can't complain about this game.

But make no mistake: this does not make up for going 3-5 in the previous 8. We still need to make a move. Before you bash on those of us suggesting a trade, realize that half the Suns' front office wants to make a move as well. I think it ought to be Marion because he's the least useful with respect to his trade value - specifically, he can't hit the long-ball, and he plays out of position, which is no longer to our advantage, and Hill does the same slashing bit that he does with a developed offensive reertoire to boot.

If you think we should stay put on the basis of a victory over the Clippers, you're nuts.

You know, people post a lot when we play big games - win or lose. This doesn't qualify. I don't understand how there has developed this extraordinary sentiment against trade discussion when we're obviously underperforming in a year that many expected would yield a championship - or at least put us right at the doorstep for a fourth consecutive year. We have the talent, but it's not the right talent. Or haven't you been watching?

First and foremost this isn't about a just a win against the Clippers, we've had good wins the focus just tends to be on the losses. It almost lunacy to think that we need a trade because we've gone 3-5 in a span of eight games, its extremely short sighted. I'm trying to understand how we've underperformed this year since the playoffs haven't begun yet. That's what this season is about! it doesn't matter if we've established dominance now, that needs to happen months from now. I reiterate patience because there's not a lot of it going around. For all these trade scenarios, like getting Pau Gasol, don't work for this team. This is the same team that we had last year except without kurt thomas, and james jones. Kurt never played because Coach didn't give him the minutes, and James was in a year-long shooting slump. Our talent isn't different its the same from about 5 months removed from the playoffs. I think you need to watch closer, there are games where we don't try as hard and lose games that way, and others that we lose. Realize this team has matured into one that knows its playing for June. Where are your sources from the front office? They told you that they want to make a trade with our core players? Its one thing to say that we need another shooter, but its also something else to say this team needs to be scrapped into a roster that hasn't proved itself either. No player is perfect, you're going to find their deficiencies and complain about them too. The only players that would be good besides Mike Miller, are not players that teams are willing to trade. Lastly, big games aren't the only ones with long threads, any game we lose is a long thread, The only game we win that will be a long thread is one against the Spurs, Mavs, or maybe even Boston. We take for granted everything that these players can do by saying what they can't. The majority of the teams in the league would want our roster for a championship run, because they watch the troubles that this team gives them. All I suggest is that instead of scrapping a team because of some turbulence, give them a chance to put it together when it really matters.

[ShelC]

When u lose, obviously the weaknesses and deficiencies are that much more visible, so theres a lot more to talk about. Tonight, we played about well as we could have. The ball movement was great, we knocked down just about every shot we looked at, we got Stat the ball early and often...literally everything clicked. But, and not to take anything away from our performance, as well as we played the Clips played just as poorly. It was one of those games for the clips, who have been ravaged by injuries.

I thought that getting Skinner and Amare PT together for an extended period worked out very well. It helped that the Clips were weak in the frontcourt so those two could get some confidence playing together. More like a dry-run so to speak against the clips frotnline rather that experimenting against a frontline like the Spurs or Jazz. But i thought Skinner helped free up amare and had him thinking a lot less on defense. Even when he got beat by his man, Skinner was there for help and Amare was able to recover in time because of it. Skinner was great on the boards and really knows how to snap the ball out quickly for the outlet pass. And a little confidence goes a long way on offense.

[Maldonado316]

Great win, liked they we went to Stat early on. Let's build off of this.

[scosuns]

Beautiful post cap. Its kind of ugly to see how we've done, and how lucky we were due to certain circumstances. We need to be consistent. I'm tired of W, L, W, L, etc. This team needs a consistency. Not an inconsistent consistency. So far, this team has not impressed me. Have we even gotten one big win with everyone healthy? Answer, NO. That needs to change, or as you said cap, this Suns team will be in for a rude awakening.

Hopefully, they do what they did early in the game, and feed STAT the ball a lot more. DOM-I-NA-TION.

[AZSportsFan]

Every game in the regular season is going to "lose-lose", it seems....

Why get worked up? You are not going to change anything, nor am I. I really don't understand the mentality of souring on anything and everything the team does. Let's take this game, for instance. Some of the sentiments before the game: "Could be a let-down game." "Kaman will have a career night." None of those things happen, the Suns play 3 quarters of decent basketball (Because that fourth just sucked. Cmon, Pike? Tucker has twice the desire at the moment, and probably twice the talent.), and the boo-birds STILL come out! Like I said, it seems that EVERY game will be a "lose-lose". Nevermind that several key players have been playing injured or out of shape for the Suns. No, the Championship is won here and now, folks. This team is doomed. Turn off your sets. Shun the sports page.

Oh, well. Nevermind. As you were, and have fun.

[EDC]

I thought that getting Skinner and Amare PT together for an extended period worked out very well. It helped that the Clips were weak in the frontcourt so those two could get some confidence playing together. More like a dry-run so to speak against the clips frotnline rather that experimenting against a frontline like the Spurs or Jazz. But i thought Skinner helped free up amare and had him thinking a lot less on defense. Even when he got beat by his man, Skinner was there for help and Amare was able to recover in time because of it. Skinner was great on the boards and really knows how to snap the ball out quickly for the outlet pass. And a little confidence goes a long way on offense.

That play where Amare went for the ball fake and recovered to meet Magette? at the basket with Skinner was just plain sick. I agree that Skinner in there helps the team defense so much. When both are in almost every shot near the basket is being contested. Hopefully Coach D has seen the light.

[ShelC]

Thats exactly the play i had in mind. Skinner was there in time to slow Maggette down just enough for Amare to coem from behind and meet Skinner for the combo block. Its one thing to see Skinner standing in the paint waiting for u, its another to not even realize u have Amare trailing the play, timing your shot as well. Those 2 could end up forming a hell of a duo.

[JustWinBaby]

{Thats exactly the play i had in mind. Skinner was there in time to slow Maggette down just enough for Amare to coem from behind and meet Skinner for the combo block. Its one thing to see Skinner standing in the paint waiting for u, its another to not even realize u have Amare trailing the play, timing your shot as well. Those 2 could end up forming a hell of a duo.}

Surely Amare should body up his opponent better but that is not and for the forseeable future will not be his strength. Amare can be a superb shot blocker and is very quick to the ball. Skinner allows Amare to be Amare not unlike what KT did while here. In many ways he is a bigger Marion on defense just with a higher propensity to get fouls. We have always been better when Amare has had a legitimate sidekick by his side going back to Steven Hunter. It is so obvious it is stupid.

[ShelC]

Ill cut amare some slack on that play cuz i dont expect him to stay in front of Maggette on hte perimeter. But it only strengthens my fears about him guarding anyone on the perimeter that can put the ball on the floor and be a threat offensively. We know his lateral quickness just isnt what it was prior to the surgeries, so the thought of him moving to his natural 4position and guarding Dirk, Bosh, KG, Odom, even an AlHarrington or Antawn Jamison on perimeter facing up doesnt exactly give me warm feelings. Unless, of course, the plan would be to let those guys beat him and have him funnel them to the help/shotblocker at the 5.

[wpmiller42]

Ill cut amare some slack on that play cuz i dont expect him to stay in front of Maggette on hte perimeter. But it only strengthens my fears about him guarding anyone on the perimeter that can put the ball on the floor and be a threat offensively. We know his lateral quickness just isnt what it was prior to the surgeries, so the thought of him moving to his natural 4position and guarding Dirk, Bosh, KG, Odom, even an AlHarrington or Antawn Jamison on perimeter facing up doesnt exactly give me warm feelings. Unless, of course, the plan would be to let those guys beat him and have him funnel them to the help/shotblocker at the 5.

True, and depending on the situation, maybe Amare wouldn't have to guard those guys straight up. We could have Marion come off his man and help Amare, forcing the ball out of the PF's hands. Shawn is really good at getting those kinds of steals and deflections.

[cap]

I'm trying to understand how we've underperformed this year since the playoffs haven't begun yet. That's what this season is about!

It’s tough to be one of the so-called “downers” around here.

There are the gimme-games, when we don’t post a lot, and we usually win, prompting comments along the lines of “You don’t post when we win! You only post when we lose! You should post more about the wins!”

Then there are the big games, when we do post a lot, and we usually lose, so the observations are usually negative, prompting comments along the lines of, “Shut up! It’s only a regular season game and the regular season doesn’t mean squat, so just shut up!”

So, when we beat up on the Brandless, Livingstonless, Thomasless, hopeless Clippers, we need more gushing about the win; and when we play the Lakers or Mavs we need to reserve comment, because the games are meaningless.

*Sigh.*

I know some of the anti-downers have fled the site, but it seems we still get a lot of this nonsense. Still enough to keep me on the defensive about it, at any rate.

[Shabazz]

One thing I did notice about Amare's defense is that when he has a string of a few blocked shots in a row, he gets a little over-aggresive going for the block and is easy to get in the air to draw fouls against. His defense was solid last night, but against a more clever front line that's going to get exploited.

[INFORMER]

I'm trying to understand how we've underperformed this year since the playoffs haven't begun yet. That's what this season is about!

It’s tough to be one of the so-called “downers” around here.

There are the gimme-games, when we don’t post a lot, and we usually win, prompting comments along the lines of “You don’t post when we win! You only post when we lose! You should post more about the wins!”

Then there are the big games, when we do post a lot, and we usually lose, so the observations are usually negative, prompting comments along the lines of, “Shut up! It’s only a regular season game and the regular season doesn’t mean squat, so just shut up!”

So, when we beat up on the Brandless, Livingstonless, Thomasless, hopeless Clippers, we need more gushing about the win; and when we play the Lakers or Mavs we need to reserve comment, because the games are meaningless.

*Sigh.*

I know some of the anti-downers have fled the site, but it seems we still get a lot of this nonsense. Still enough to keep me on the defensive about it, at any rate.

Good post, cap.

[Superbone]

I'm trying to understand how we've underperformed this year since the playoffs haven't begun yet. That's what this season is about!

It’s tough to be one of the so-called “downers” around here.

I don't know. I think you're doing a pretty good job of it.

[Billyjoejimbob]

I'm trying to understand how we've underperformed this year since the playoffs haven't begun yet. That's what this season is about!

It’s tough to be one of the so-called “downers” around here.

I don't know. I think you're doing a pretty good job of it.

He didn't say he wasn't good at it, he said it was tough.

[Superbone]

I'm trying to understand how we've underperformed this year since the playoffs haven't begun yet. That's what this season is about!

It’s tough to be one of the so-called “downers” around here.

I don't know. I think you're doing a pretty good job of it.

He didn't say he wasn't good at it, he said it was tough.

Right you are. As tough as it must be (I can only imagine), you've got to admit he's doing an admirable job though. ;)

[SpecialSauce]

Wow for a blowout i was hoping for more people posting.

why? most are just waiting to bash this team and call for the coaches head. They'll bide their time until our next loss, and come up with multiple retarded trade scenarios trying to bring in has-beens and players that aren't as talented as the ones we already have.

Wow. Why did you join this board again? To come in here and bash everyone? Keeep walkin

[misteradiant]

half the Suns' front office wants to make a move as well.

and your indisputable evidence for us to consider that makes this statement a fact?

[misteradiant]

DOM-I-NA-TION.

i read that and it made me hum "celebration" by kool and the gang. CEL-I-BRA-TION! come on! everybody sing it! up with people!

you're distinguished, too. good for you but i have a question. how is it that a guy with 75 posts is distiguished and the dude with over 10,000 isn't? hall of famers aren't but rookies and sophomores are? and you can be a sophomore after only 75 posts? how easy is that to do in your first week or two? i must remember to bring these issues up with sose when we go motorbike riding and beer drinking sunday afternoon.

[misteradiant]

It’s tough to be one of the so-called “downers” around here.

There are the gimme-games, when we don’t post a lot, and we usually win, prompting comments along the lines of “You don’t post when we win! You only post when we lose! You should post more about the wins!”

Then there are the big games, when we do post a lot, and we usually lose, so the observations are usually negative, prompting comments along the lines of, “Shut up! It’s only a regular season game and the regular season doesn’t mean squat, so just shut up!”

So, when we beat up on the Brandless, Livingstonless, Thomasless, hopeless Clippers, we need more gushing about the win; and when we play the Lakers or Mavs we need to reserve comment, because the games are meaningless.

*Sigh.*

I know some of the anti-downers have fled the site, but it seems we still get a lot of this nonsense. Still enough to keep me on the defensive about it, at any rate.

here. it's my hyperbole award. you deserve it after that post.