Game Day: Suns @ Lakers

[Bogyo]

Let's see a win!

Dis∙cuss

[Velo]

The only person who could have posted this earlier would be SK, i think ;-D

[Bogyo]

The only person who could have posted this earlier would be SK, i think ;-D

Yeah, too bad I get kinda left out of the general conversation most of the times becouse of this time difference
:)

[darrkin]

we need justice and revenge!

[JackArse]

this can't be good. i think every time we've posted the day prior, we've lost. but my memory isn't that great. unless it's some obscure stupid shit that i shouldn't remember for any reason.

[Velo]

it was only posted the day prior to you and i, jack. bogyo did us the service of getting it up there quicker and by the book.

[JackArse]

ahh.. gotcha. i see what you mean. it still worries me though. =\

[scosuns]

We're going to win. Ok? You gotta be hopeful. I hope we do....

[Amarvelous]

Big game. At least we know Mike should be pushing these guys hard for this one.

[Velo]

___ the lakers.

[JediSkywalker]

I hope Bell can play. We will need all of our starters to beat this Lakers team. They are playing much better than last two years and they are behind by just 2 games.

[Sunny_Kid]

Oh the games' time always at bad time. I have to get up at 4 in the midnight tomorrow to watch the LIVE and then go to my course at 7...

[JackArse]

4 in the midnight..

i think you broked the clock.

[Mori_Chu]

Lakers are much better this year, but if there was ever a game we should "get up" for, this is it. I think we should be able to pull it out.

[MEE]

http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage13/7.gifBEAT L.A.http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage13/7.gif
http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage13/7.gifBEAT L.A.http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage13/7.gif

[ShelC]

Saw the lakers agains the knicks on Sunday....they didnt really impress me all that much. Odom had a poor game, Bynum was OK, Fisher and Radman didnt impress at all. Besides Kobe, who had 39 (and was playing to the crowd taking 28ft 3pt shots in front of Spike Lee and Chris Rock), Farmar probably was the 2nd best laker. His defense is very good. Mihm had a sick dunk on Curry but didnt do much else.

All in all, the lakers probably had an off day but theyre still the same team theyve always been. Bynum could be a difference maker because hes a legit center. Hes gotten better very quickly and we need to make sure we're making him run and defend, rather than just stand around grabbing boards and getting putbacks. With Kobe, the more defenders the better. If we have Raja, fine. If not, throw Barbs on him, then Shawn, then Hill.

[SwingMan]

.....

[SwingMan]

http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage13/7.gifBEAT L.A.http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage13/7.gif
http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage13/7.gifBEAT L.A.http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage13/7.gif

Beat Louisiana?

[Bogyo]

Beat Louisiana?

I have faint memories of this being quite effective... :)

[SwingMan]

;) :cool:

[k_kwan]

Merry Christmas to all and F*!K the lakers!!!

[Xcon]

Don't we usually lose the afternoon games?? Seems like we do. This will be a test for Amare as the Lakers will throw a lot of big men at him. Hopefully Bynum doesn't have a career tonight. I predict a win if Barbosa is in the starting line-up, as he's usually burned the Lakers in the past.

[desertcoast]

For all who have followed the Gambo and Ash spoofs and parodies my company does, here's a link to the page that has them all.

Of particular interest is the holiday "Orange Christmas".
It's a spoof of the syrupy slow, dramatic renditions of "White Christmas" but with a Suns theme.

Wait for it. Verse 2 is appropriate today!!

http://www.desertcoast.com/GamboandAshBudlightParodies.htm

btw: for those who haven't heard it, the "Guy Who Has A Mancrush on Al McCoy" is there too.

Enjoy..and Happy Holidays to everyone!!

[jkalldaway]

Walton just said the lakers are the second best team in the Weat behind san antonio.

[AlanS]

Walton just said the lakers are the second best team in the Weat behind san antonio.

According to the Hollinger rankings, the Lakers are the best Western team, followed by the Suns and Spurs. See: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerranking

A win by one of these teams will be decisive, at least for a day.

To all: Happy holidays!!

[BobbyDogg]

Thanks MEE!

I needed that...

[desertcoast]

Walton is very much off the Suns bandwagon this year.

Which is fine. :wink:

[AlanS]

Walton is very much off the Suns bandwagon this year.

To be fair to Bill , a LOT of people are off the Suns' bandwagon this season. I mean, just look at phxsuns.net...

[cap]

Bynum could be a difference maker because hes a legit center.

Understatement. Bynum is having an All-Star season.



Walton just said the lakers are the second best team in the Weat behind san antonio.

According to the Hollinger rankings, the Lakers are the best Western team, followed by the Suns and Spurs. See: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerranking

Interesting. The cap ratings have them as the second-highest rated team behind the Spurs, but third in projected record behind the Spurs and Suns. Sagarin (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nba0708.htm)’s PREDICTOR ratings have the Lakers third in the West.

[JediSkywalker]

Walton just said the lakers are the second best team in the Weat behind san antonio.

According to the Hollinger rankings, the Lakers are the best Western team, followed by the Suns and Spurs. See: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerranking

A win by one of these teams will be decisive, at least for a day.

To all: Happy holidays!!


Only the NCAA Football programs care about rankings. In most other sports 'best' depends on what happens in the playoffs. Let the Lakers think they are the best; it may make it easier to beat them. Hopefully it will fire up the Suns.

Let us hope they teach Walton (and the Lakers) a lesson today, lest they forget who won the Pacific division last 3 years and is still leading the division.

Is anyone bothered by the hype on espn about only LeBron and Kobe for today's games? What about the two time MVP Nash? We don't even hear his name. I hope he teaches them a lesson today.

[JediSkywalker]

Merry Christmas to everyone!

[cap]

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a Suns rout.

[Superbone]

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a Suns rout.

Many Lakers are stirring, but hopefully Boris doesn't pout.

[DrSublime]

Grant Hill looking solid so far.

[JediSkywalker]

Suns are not shooting well. Marion just missed an easy layup. Suns already missed two FTs. Marion also missed two 3 point shots. I am not sure why he even takes those shots. He is not even an average 3 point shooter.

[JediSkywalker]

Bynum is killing the Suns, so is Fisher. The Suns have to make some adjustments during the half time or I don't see them winning this one.

Marion has done nothing so far. He missed one of two FTs which is typical. Suns are playing horrible. They need to raise the level of their game.

[cap]

Bynum could be a difference maker because hes a legit center.

Understatement. Bynum is having an All-Star season.

At halftime, 16 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 77% FG.

[SwingMan]

"Hckanging around - kid's got alleegator blood"

No way Fisher keeps it up, yet Bryant has been half-assing it all game.

I must've missed it - what happened to Luke Walton anyways?

Matrix's jumper -or extreme lack thereof - has made him absolutely useless outside of lobs and back door cuts.

Just one other note: Tucker had better be preparing himself, as D'Antoni's gonna drive Raja into a long-term injury for damn sure.

62-up at the half.

[Shabazz]

Looks like we're getting a "Good Boris" game tonight. He's a -8, but I think it has more to do with the fact that he was out there a lot with that no-Nash-Amare-Marion lineup.

I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few of Raja's minutes in the 2nd half.

[Bogyo]

Someone PLEASE get a body on Bynum. He is not that good!

[JediSkywalker]

What is Bill Walton smoking? He just said the Suns are going to pay a huge price for Grant Hill because they are playing him like a franchise player. Is he talking about a definite injury or his next year's salary? (I think he has an option his second year- correct me if I am wrong).

The conversation really began with the other guy saying that the Suns made two additions that did not seem that big at the time (Hill and Skinner), but if they win the title this year, they will be the reason. That's when Bill Walton came up with that remark.

[JediSkywalker]

Looks like we're getting a "Good Boris" game tonight. He's a -8, but I think it has more to do with the fact that he was out there a lot with that no-Nash-Amare-Marion lineup.

I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few of Raja's minutes in the 2nd half.

ITA. Raja does not look well. He made just one jump shot, I think. Boris even had a dunk today and a behind the back pass, plus a mid range shot. I hope he keeps it up.

[SpecialSauce]

Boris has had a string of good games lately actually. His shot hasn't been falling, but we're definitely seeing a change in mentality which is progress.

[JackArse]

the suns still seem to be a little stiff or something, not flowing smoothly. raja isn't hitting very well, but is doing ok on def, which is what we mainly want from him anyways. nash is now finding his shot, boris looks to be a bit more aggressive now, and i think that should carry on, the lakers usually piss him off for one reason or another. marion is.. looking older.

with all that, and the lakers looking solid and shooting better overall.. it's tied. i like our chances. they're already hot, we haven thit that stride yet.

[JackArse]

one thing that is surprising though is that for the most part, the refs have been pretty good, other than two blocking calls that were for sure charges, to include that one on amare right there.

is it mark jackson that is the blatant lakers fan there in booth?

and phil's bowtie has GOT to go. bidwell can pull that off.. phil cannot.

[JediSkywalker]

Suns are being sloppy again, turning the ball over right after a LAL bucket. Lakers are playing VERY well and the Suns cannot afford to slack off. They are not looking good in the 3rd Q. The score is close because of Nash's baskets. Amare needs to get in the game, but he just picked up his 4th foul. Things are not looking good. I would hate to see the Suns lose two to the Lakers. They have not beaten this Lakers team this season.

[Bogyo]

damit, get it in the hoop!

[RDM2]

Letting Kobe showboat dunks like that is just going to give them momentum.

Raja has been keeping us in this game on both ends of the floor. Hes the saving grace.

[JediSkywalker]

This is very frustrating. The Suns can't shoot and they can't stop the Lakers.

[desertcoast]

Someone PLEASE get a body on Bynum. He is not that good!

I think Bynum is good, and getting better fast.

I thought he needed 3 more years, but he'll be a real problem for us next season.

[JackArse]

amare is getting burned on rebounds, getting out jumped, he's letting his guy go on the defensive end by trying to head off pick and rolls. and we're just missing open shots.

[SpecialSauce]

Amare is just different this year. Not only is he not playing like '04-'05, he's not even playing like last year. His points come strictly off free throws and jumpers. When I see an Amare dunk or any sort of playmaking, I'm actually surprised. He has completely lost the ability to create his own shot, and is a step slow and short. I'm really, really discouraged by his play so far this season. He's just been so damn inconsistent.

[JediSkywalker]

Someone PLEASE get a body on Bynum. He is not that good!

I think Bynum is good, and getting better fast.

I thought he needed 3 more years, but he'll be a real problem for us next season.


He is already a problem for us. Amare cannot do anything. Is he just having a bad game or is he getting burned by better players? I have a bad feeling about this Lakers team. It's unbearable to watch the game right now. Suns can't do anything right. Fourth Q has been the worst!

[JediSkywalker]

I have seen enough. I turned off the TV. What's Amare taking a 3-point shot for? He needs to be close to the basket and dunk. Marion has completely disappeared, and he has no right to complain about anything after playing like this. The Lakers just scored at the other end, after Amare's 3-point miss- who else? Bynum! This is infuriating. Kerr needs to do something with this team, pretty soon, or the season is just going to float away. They are not even going to the second round this year. They were outcoached, outscored, and totally dominated by the Lakers. I am embarrassed by the way they played :evil:

[Bogyo]

Someone PLEASE get a body on Bynum. He is not that good!

I think Bynum is good, and getting better fast.

I thought he needed 3 more years, but he'll be a real problem for us next season.


He is already a problem for us. Amare cannot do anything. Is he just having a bad game or is he getting burned by better players? I have a bad feeling about this Lakers team. It's unbearable to watch the game right now. Suns can't do anything right. Fourth Q has been the worst!

Original quote: He is not that good. Emphasis on "that". Yes, he is good, but not 11/13 good. Not defi-fucking-natley 8 offensive rebounds good. Any more questions?

Getting burned on Christmas eve on national tv: priceless.

[EDC]

Wow.. some of you guys have some interesting opinions. If you watch the pick and rolls they are sagging off of Nash big time to make sure he can't feed Amare. I have yet to see a pass from Nash to Amare on a pick and roll. That leaves the only way to get Amare the ball is to throw it in to him at the post or just the jump shots at the top of the key. He has gotten a few of those jump shots but they do not feed Amare the ball underneath.

I saw great position from Amare almost right under the basket and Raja just looked him away. You really can't expect Amare to light up the lakers when he doesn't get a lot of touches in good positions. I guess there are a lot of opinions on this though.

Amare should have gotten more boards but he seemed pretty active in fighting for the boards.

What is with Coach D though? His inability to adjust to anything is just horrible. Not to mention his great coaching at the end of the game. I just feel like if we do win it all this year it will be in spite of Coach D.


Edit: As for Amare jumping out on pick and rolls that has to be a coaching thing. He would not be doing that unless he was told to. It is so obvious every game he does that. Do you honestly think the coach is saying "Amare don't do that" and he is doing it anyway? It has to be a coaching decision for him to jump out on the screens like that. It is really stupid though and I just don't get it.

[jkalldaway]

If that deal really is in place with Philly, Kerr will pull the trigger tomorrow. Get Daly in here, let him rebound and defend and bring in Iggy to inject some athleticism. Whether or not it is that deal, I have a feeling a move is on the way. Also, does it sound like Van Gundy is interviewing for D'Antoni's position everytime he is on a broadcast to anyone else?

[jkalldaway]

Question, do you fire coach and keep this roster or do you make a trade?

[Xcon]

Don't we usually lose the afternoon games?? Seems like we do. This will be a test for Amare as the Lakers will throw a lot of big men at him. Hopefully Bynum doesn't have a career tonight. I predict a win if Barbosa is in the starting line-up, as he's usually burned the Lakers in the past.


Oops, I should have known better. This is the Suns after all. Sigh. If the Lakers suck, does that mean we suck even worse.

[SwingMan]

I'll say it again: If you're gonna play like a collective bitch, expect to get treated like one - which is EXACTLY why Amare was called for that 5th foul. Once he picked up his 4th foul in the 3rd Q, he turned into Doris - and started pouting once he wasn't getting the damn ball.

Yes, I lay this loss mostly on Amare. Even Boris outhustled him today.....

[SpecialSauce]

Lets see the kool aid drinkers defend this loss. This team is not right, and it starts with the coach and his HORRIBLE starting lineup combination, and TERRIBLE rotation management, and the blame trickles all the way down to (in order):

1. Matrix's offense and refusal to work on his game,
2. Amare's knees and lack of pop and defense
3. Bell's sudden aging 10 years,
4. LB's flashback to his rookie year
5. the Boris-Doris series

No blame falls on Hill or Skinner, they have been everything we needed and more. We can't do a Bell-Hill-Marion lineup in the rotation, it just doesn't work. Marion just doesn't work in our offense. I blame Kerr and D'Antoni for failing to add any shooters or athleticism to an aging (Nash, Bell, Marion) , banged up (Amare), injury prone team (Hill, Amare).

The strength of our team is shooting. We are not hitting our shot, and Marion's offense is simply inexcusable. I blame him first and foremost for our offensive woes. Amare's suddenly turned into KT on the offensive end, but definitely not on the defensive end. This is not good. If this is the Amare we get for the rest of the season, we're finished. We need Amare to be at least as good as last year, and soon.

Bell needs to heal, and it's definitely time for him to come off the bench.

I don't know what LB's role should be on this team, but it's definitely not coming off the bench. I just hate him in the 2nd unit. He should be rather gone or starting.

Boris did just fine today, but we need to see that every game, and not for a 3-4 game stretch followed by a Doris stretch.

This team needs a trade in the worst way, we need to rather become younger and more athletic, or get a better shooter....preferably both.

[illmatic]

One thing I wanna mention off the top of my head,(I'm too pissed off right now to say anything else) is that there are only 2 players on this roster who really give a shit about winning: Raja Bell and Steve Nash. This team is awful and will not win a Championship this year with it's current attitude and potentially personnel.

On a side note, I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas, and a Happy New Year!

[jkalldaway]

Special I agree with everything you said. However, I really feel that we are not using Amare correctly. That falls on the coach, not Amare but that is the only point I disagree with. We need a trade, I want some youth, I want some athletes. Will it happen? If ever I think this is the time.

[y2jjedipimp]

WOW!!!! what a Christmas joke. here's what bothered me most about the game...the fans chanting Phoenix sucks at the end of the game. not because they were chanting it. but because they were right. Phoenix does play like they suck. Phoenix mailed this one it at the 40 second mark left in the game liek the announcers said. DA gave up and the players gave up.

The announcers commented on that the LAkers could beat the Suns in a series. I totally disagree based on the fact i know what they are capable of when they actually give a shit. The only problem is i haven tseen much of the Suns giving a shit lately.

What game were the announcers watching that Boris was having a good game? he was 3-9 at that point. the guy needs to sit a few games and mayeb it will sink in on how much of a piece of shit he really is. play guys who want to win.

The team should be prettty pissed about this losss. I dont think they are though. MArion was joking with Kobe right after the buzzer. NAsh headed straight back. he was pissed. how does it feel to have the fans chanting you suck? It enraged me sitting thousands on miles away in my recliner.

what are we doing to prevent games like this from happening?

[EDC]

I just pray that the Suns as an organization move to an inside out game starring Amare. I think if you start to move in that direction it could go really far. It wouldnt take much in the way of changes to the roster either. We have great 3pt shooters for kicking it out to. We have a good slashers in Boris/Marion/Barbosa. I just think we need to change the way we play in the half court. Stop depending on Nash to dribble around while almost everyone else just stands there waiting for him to get them a wide open shot.

It will take some time for Amare to get really good at handling the double teams and finding the right man but thats what the regular season is for. It isn't like we wouldn't run. If the shot is there right off the bat take it. If not pull it out and run an offense.

I would say fire Coach D but who would replace him? All the good coaches are taken for the most part.

[SpecialSauce]

Special I agree with everything you said. However, I really feel that we are not using Amare correctly. That falls on the coach, not Amare but that is the only point I disagree with. We need a trade, I want some youth, I want some athletes. Will it happen? If ever I think this is the time.

I agree that we aren't using Amare correctly, and I've said that from the start too. But I have to be honest and say that even when we feed it to him, I don't see any explosion. He just can't create his own shot this season. He'll rather get fouled, or he'll shoot a J. I never see him beat his man off the dribble anymore, and it's really depressing.

[AZSportsFan]

Game after a two-day layoff. Check the record. Moreover, check the scores in those games. The only one where the Suns played decent was against Toronto. If the Suns are missing jumpers, they will not win. Has nothing to do with coaching. Has everything to do with skills. Suns were poor from the line and from the field, even while limiting second-chance opportunities for LA. The Suns took one more attempt from the field.

On Amare, he is NOT an inside player unless he gets the ball in a position to do so. That is easy to stop on defense - he is only 6-10", while Odom and Bynum are at least that tall if not taller. Lakers are playing better right now. So what? Merry Christmas.

[illmatic]

Sad to say but Amare lost his hops after the surgery. He doesn't have the lateral quickness anymore to blow by his man when he has the ball at the top of the key.

I completely agree with you y2jjedipimp, the reason why it pissed me off that LA was chanting we suck wasn't because they were doing it, but because it's true. And yes, that does piss me off that Marion will go over and have some jokes with Kobe after Kobe just dropped 39 points on our ass. We have no freakin warriors on this team, save for Nash, Bell, maybe Skinner and Hill but that's it. It's truly depressing. Thanks for the Christmas gift Suns, you took a dump on national television.

[EDC]

It's amazing how easy it is to take us out of the game. When you sag a lot of the pick and roll and force Nash to take those shots we really don't look that great as a team. The thing that the Spurs do to us is sag in when we pick and roll but still make it back to the outside shooters preventing open 3 pointers. When this happens there is so much pressure on Nash to do something creative that over the course he tires out and isnt as effective.

Seriously though i think we really need to talk about clock management at the end of the game. What a complete failure. How could you as a coach not have any clue on what to do to give your team the best chance to win. What was it? Down by eight with 50 seconds on the clock. Lets just let the other team run 24 seconds off of it.

If this is any indication of how he does his job.... ah well.

[BobbyDogg]

Ok, anyone want to defend this loss?

There is something wrong and it's been here all season, even in the games they've won. No spark or fire or something. Going through the motions, in a way.

Amare Stoudemire needs to be a real leader and DEMAND THE BALL instead of floating around the top of the key and waiting to see what happens. To hell with what the coach says. GET IN POSITION AND DEMAND THE F'ING BALL!

Oh yeah, and learn how to BLOCK OUT FOR A REBOUND!

Shawn, it's called a layup. You used to do it all the time but I guess you've completely forgotten.

Can't put my finger on it but THIS paticular group looks out of sync, old and uninterested which usually won't translate into a championship.

Lakers have beaten us twice now and pretty convincingly, IMO.

[AZSportsFan]

Defend this loss? We don't work for team. We are not responsible for the team. We don't play for the team. I have never understood these kinds of posts. The loss sucked. So what? I don't think that it is possible to "defend" a loss. It wasn't an exiting game however, so perhaps that is what you are getting at.

[Shabazz]

Yup, this was a tough one. The "Phoenix sucks" chants were rough to listen to. The only thing I hate more than the Lakers are Laker fans. But they have a point; we don't match up well with LA if they're healthy. The days of Kwame (one of the softest players in the NBA) starting are over. They now have an inside presence that has to be accounted for, which makes covering Bryant a lot tougher.

Amare is in a tough spot. He's a lot slimmer than he was in 04-05 because his knees can't take the strain and he also doesn't have his springs right now. So Bynum, who is 2-3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier, is going to be a tough cover. I agree with EDC, that teams are taking Amare out of the game by crowding him inside and leaving him open to shoot jumpers. For some reason they haven't been falling like they were earlier in the season. He has to make more of a concerted effort to run the break with the rest of the team and tire out opposing centers.

It's becoming painful to watch Marion chuck threes. I can imagine every opposing scouting report says something along the lines of "leave Marion wide open from outside." Not only has his 3 point shooting been awful, but it seems he can't make the mid-range shot with any consistency anymore either. He used to have a really nice mid-range game. I know he shot 50%, but he didn't hit a shot outside of 4 feet.

Hill looked really tired at the end of the game. Did I see him limping at some point?

On the plus side - Nash's new commercial is pretty cool.

[JediSkywalker]

What was most disappointing to me was how little some of the Suns seemed to care. May be Marion was/is serious about wanting to be traded to the Lakers, based on his nonchalant attitude on the court. Amare looked like he was walking in his sleep. The only players that seemed to care were Nash, Bell, Hill and Skinner. If we did not have those two new guys where would we be? This loss was no accident. The Lakers ARE are much better team than the Suns right now. Will the Suns follow in the footsteps of the Bulls and fire the coach? This kind of performance is unacceptable.

I would prefer that we bring in some help - a strong defender, a good backup point guard (rather than fire the coach right now), but the question is- will Dantoni even use those players? I am so sick of watching the Suns play horrible every other game.

[JediSkywalker]

It's becoming painful to watch Marion chuck threes. I can imagine every opposing scouting report says something along the lines of "leave Marion wide open from outside." Not only has his 3 point shooting been awful, but it seems he can't make the mid-range shot with any consistency anymore either. He used to have a really nice mid-range game. I know he shot 50%, but he didn't hit a shot outside of 4 feet.

Hill looked really tired at the end of the game. Did I see him limping at some point?

On the plus side - Nash's new commercial is pretty cool.

Why is Marion even taking the 3-point shots? He is a poor 3-shooter. He needs to pass the ball to someone that can shoot. I am losing patience with him at this point.

BTW Dantoni needs to stop forcing Barbs be the backup point guard. He is much more effective as a shooting guard. If only Dantoni used his players' strength, the Suns would be in a much better shape.

My prediction: Suns will be a 7th or 8th seed this season and will be eliminated in the first round.

[BobbyDogg]

Defend this loss? We don't work for team. We are not responsible for the team. We don't play for the team. I have never understood these kinds of posts. The loss sucked. So what? I don't think that it is possible to "defend" a loss. It wasn't an exiting game however, so perhaps that is what you are getting at.


Come on.

Every time someone gets on here and brings up the flaws in the way the suns are playing a multitude of people jump in with "it's one loss, it's only December, their record is in the top three, just enjoy the season, injuries, schedule, everyone wants to push the panic button" etc.

I'm speaking to those people. I never said we are responsible for the team and I'm not sure what is meant by that. This team WAS EXPECTED to be in the top three at the start of the season and should be with their talent so there is no "suprise" or "kudos" that they are. They should be. This is not a team that barely made the playoffs last year and is shocking the league with their record but is supposed to be contending for a title which means they will be criticized far more then normal because more is expected of them. Thats just the way it is.

I'm saying that this team is not playing up to par and haven't been this entire year. Something just feels wrong. Fans at the games have noticed it, the media has noticed it and even Nash has noticed it and called out his team for it, which is quite rare for him. There is a fire and chemistry that is lacking and that's bad news for a team that is picked to win a championship. This game is just the most recent example.

[y2jjedipimp]

Defend this loss? We don't work for team. We are not responsible for the team. We don't play for the team. I have never understood these kinds of posts. The loss sucked. So what? I don't think that it is possible to "defend" a loss. It wasn't an exiting game however, so perhaps that is what you are getting at.



i realize u meant to put exciting game but when i thought about it. your typo might prove to be more true than what you intended for whats coming to this team. Whether it be a trade, a coaching change, a line-up change, or just as simple as a change in the way we are playing. I would have to disagree, so to speak, when you say it wasnt an "exiting game." I think it may just have been.

[JediSkywalker]

I am open to any trade right now, except for a trade involving Nash or Hill.

The Suns need a CHANGE- it may not even matter what kind. Replace the coach, bring in new players. I would hate to lose LB. I think he is still going to be great for us in the years to come. I think either Marion or STAT could give us some leverage in the negotiations. We might just forget about the Atlanta pick at this point. It is going to be so low that they will just trade in for cash on draft day. It may not be a bad idea to trade it in now to get at least one strong player we need. I would love to get Pau Gasol and at this point, quite honestly I don't mind losing Amare or Marion. No sense having a big three if only one of them (Nash) is actually contributing.

[EDC]

Trading Amare is the worst mistake this franchise could ever make.

[JediSkywalker]

Trading Amare is the worst mistake this franchise could ever make.

Not trading Amare for Garnett was the worst mistake this franchise has already made. He is not the same player we saw last year. He is nowhere as dominant as he was last year or the year before his first surgery. If trading him gets us the championship, I am all for it. Garnett would have worked. I am not sure who else would work that well, but the Suns need a strong defender because Amare is simply not a strong defensive player. Right now he is not even a strong offensive player consistently.

[SwingMan]

Hear ye, hear ye - let the scenarios begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vladimir_Taltos]

If a change is going to happen...it should start w/D'A.

VT

[sunsdotcom]

fire D'Antoni, sign Scott Skiles!

[JediSkywalker]

Can Skiles get it done for the Suns?

I wonder if a 'Fire Dantoni' chant would start at the US airways center if the Suns lose to the Clippers? The way things are going, I won't be shocked if they lose to the lowly Clippers on Thurs. in LA, and they have to play them again Fri. in Phoenix.

[JediSkywalker]

fire D'Antoni, sign Scott Skiles!

That may not work out financially. Dantoni will still have to be paid, and Skiles (or whoever the new coach would be) will have to be paid on top of that. I just don't see Sarver going for that. We may have to sit through this season, then see Dantoni gone, and the Suns revert to old fashioned, boring basketball. I won't even mind the boredom if they just win the title once.

[jkalldaway]

All I know is that something will happen. Managment did not have a closed door meeting for nothing. Kerr didn't say it was an evaluation period for nothing. The team is concerned and I think we will see just how concerned in the coming week.

[torres]

The Suns don't seem to take the Lakers seriously. I hope the Suns don't face the Lakers in the playoffs this year because I have a feeling that Phil Jackson finally figured out how to beat the Suns and the Lakers have developed a roster to compete with the Suns at their game.

[AlanS]

My thoughts on the game:

[1] The Lakers outplayed the Suns, to be sure. But those missed foul shots in the 4th... they really sucked. They would probably would have lost anyway, but there was no way they could win missing all those free throws. You hate to see a team beat itself when it's getting beat by the other team too.

[2] Now, this is what an aggressive Boris looks like. Even though he was 3/9, he drew fouls, got 4 FT attempts, and 5 defensive rebounds.

Still, Diaw and Barbosa were each 3/9 from the field - that's a combined 6/18, or 33.3%. The rest of the team was 50.7% from the field. In this offensive minded game, the Suns needed better shooting from the bench, and didn't get it.

People complain about D'Antoni's rotations. But in this game, Kobe had 41 minutes, Odom and Bynum 42 minutes. They were hugely productive. Meanwhile, LB (29 minutes) was -8 for the game, Skinner (22 minutes) was - 11, Diaw (15 minutes) was -11. (Other Suns' players: Nash & Stat, +3; Bell and Marion, -2; Hill, -7.) Would it have been better for the some of the starters to play more minutes and give the Suns a better chance to win? You decide.

[3] Shawn Marion's increasing inability to hit outside shots is definitely a problem for this team. The Lakers seemed to employ a strategy of leaving Shawn alone on the outside, while the guy guarding him would stay near the lane, making it harder for the Suns to run the Nash/Amare two man game or harder for the Suns to get offensive rebounds.

It's hard to believe there was a time when Shawn was emerging as a very good 3PT shooter; he shot 39.3% from the arc in 01-02, and 38.7% in 02-03. This year he's down to 28.6%.

I'm not saying Shawn sucks or he needs to be traded or anything. But his lack of a long ball game makes the Suns easier to defend. and that's not a good thing for a team that depends on offense.

[4] Bynum was great, no doubt. But, how many times did a Laker player (often Kobe) get into the lane, upon which Amare would provide help defense, upon which Bynum would get a good pass for a score, or an unobstructed path to a put-back score? We can't keep blaming Amare for bad 'D' when the other guys leave him in a helpless position.

[5] Nash played a very good offensive game. But he made Derek Fisher look like Kobe Bryant. Nash - 24 pts in 36 minutes; Fisher - 19 pts in 30 minutes. Not a good trade-off.

[6] Phil Jackson's decision to start Trevor Ariza was big. In 33 minutes, he was 7/12 FGs (14 pts) with 7 rebounds; vs G Hill's 6/10 FGs (14 pts) with 3 rebs in 34 minutes. Call that match-up a tie - which is all that Jackson was probably looking for.

[AlanS]

Just to underscore the point on the Suns' missed opportunities at the foul line: Suns lost by 7 pts, 122-115.

Suns and Lakers took the same number of foul shots: 32. But the Lakers made 27/32 FTs, Suns just 21/32... that's a 6 pt advantage from the line for LAL.

That's why, I'm not going as ballistic over this game like some. With a better foul shooting night, this game would have been - it should have been - a lot closer. And I think the Suns are capable of shooting better from the line. But clearly, LAL has something going on, and the Suns need to play better in a whole lot of ways to start proving it can beat this team.

[JackArse]

If that deal really is in place with Philly, Kerr will pull the trigger tomorrow. Get Daly in here, let him rebound and defend and bring in Iggy to inject some athleticism. Whether or not it is that deal, I have a feeling a move is on the way. Also, does it sound like Van Gundy is interviewing for D'Antoni's position everytime he is on a broadcast to anyone else?

van bundy sounds like he's interviewing for ANY coaching position when he's out there. it offers some good insight here and there. but for the most part, it's like hearing kornheiser on TWO sporting events now.

[JediSkywalker]

All I know is that something will happen. Managment did not have a closed door meeting for nothing. Kerr didn't say it was an evaluation period for nothing. The team is concerned and I think we will see just how concerned in the coming week.


Where was this reported? Did they have a closed door meeting right after the game? Was Dantoni included?

[JackArse]

this was like.. 3-4 games ago.. i forget which game it was.

[JediSkywalker]

Just to underscore the point on the Suns' missed opportunities at the foul line: Suns lost by 7 pts, 122-115.

Suns and Lakers took the same number of foul shots: 32. But the Lakers made 27/32 FTs, Suns just 21/32... that's a 6 pt advantage from the line for LAL.

That's why, I'm not going as ballistic over this game like some. With a better foul shooting night, this game would have been - it should have been - a lot closer. And I think the Suns are capable of shooting better from the line. But clearly, LAL has something going on, and the Suns need to play better in a whole lot of ways to start proving it can beat this team.


This season, more than any of the recent past seasons (Dantoni era) the Suns have shot poorly from the FT line, with the exception of Nash, Hill and STAT. Today even Amare missed a FT, but LB, Diaw, Marion, Skinner have been shooting one out of two FTs very frequently (LB made both of his today, but that has become a rarity). I can excuse Skinner because he is brand new on this team and he has been delivering more than anyone ever expected.

Two years ago the Suns were the best FT shooting team in the league. Last year they were not bad, but not great. This year the FT shooting has been a concern. A team that does not have a strong defense (therfore does not get that many FT opportunities) needs to make the most of the FT opportunities it gets. I am not sure why the drop off. Did they quit practising FTs? By contrast, Dallas and the Lakers have maintained their level of FT shooting. The Suns need to improve in this area (among others).

If this team is not embarrassed by its performance today, I don't know what will fire them up.

The one player that actually played better than usual was Boris Diaw- he was aggressive. I see a definite improvement. Nash did all he could but the team was not cooperating. These frustrating games are becoming more of a norm for the fans these days and the fan reaction this time is not a knee jerk reaction. I do believe this team has serious problems this year. I think a lot of it has to do with the rest of the NBA figuring out how to beat the Suns, and Dantoni's stubbornness preventing the team from making any kind of counteradjustments.

[JediSkywalker]

this was like.. 3-4 games ago.. i forget which game it was.

It may have been the New Orleans game or the Miami game. Apparently nothing came out of that closed door meeting because the team has been playing very inconsistently.

[SwingMan]

All I know is that something will happen. Managment did not have a closed door meeting for nothing. Kerr didn't say it was an evaluation period for nothing. The team is concerned and I think we will see just how concerned in the coming week.


Where was this reported? Did they have a closed door meeting right after the game? Was Dantoni included?

Right after the Miami loos at home, Vash - Kerr, Sarver and D'Antoni. Please keep current, will ya?

[JustWinBaby]

1. Boris --Those of you that thought Boris played a good game are lookin at fools gold and praying for something that will never ever come. He just absolutely does not fit this team. He must go. For a short very short spell he looked pretty good but still could only earn 15 minutes on the court.
2. LB - was scared to death again in a big game, it is all to common an experience.
3. Shawn - just as stated by many is basically worhtless on offense from more than 2 ft anymore - otherewise played his usual all around game.
4. Amare - wasn't as bad as advertised IMO - he needs help up front.
5. Raja - he is who he is - is a guy that plays hard and gets the most out of what he's got but he is limited.

I believe it was Van Gundy who stated what most of us already know - we have a flawed roster. Coach D is trying to sell it to everyone that will listen but it is flawed make no mistake about it.

1. We need another Big to protect Amare - like San Antonio protects Duncan

2. We must have someone to run the point when Nash is taking a rest or god forbid he misses any games.

3. We need another shooter - if Marion would start stroking it things could be just fine in that area - can we afford to take that chance?

Fixes - that are probably avaiable:

Bigs - Dalembert, Gooden and Gasol - I would take any of them.

Point Guards - Andre Miller - he would be ideal

Shooters - Mike Miller - I would love him

Trading pieces:

Marion - while we love him and I really do - he has that expiring contract and has been very inconsistent all season on both ends - very un Shawn like and his shot is worse than ever. Due to his threat to opt out teams may want him just for that fact - like Memphis - total rebuild mode or Phiadelphia - they both have pieces that would appear to fit nicely with out roster and are rumored to be available.

Raja or LB - may need to be in package if we are to get anything of value in return

Boris - just needs to go - he is really hard to watch.

Banks - whoever will take him I guess - however I really liked what I saw the other night - would like to see more.

I doubt we can or will do what we really need to do, add a Big a shooter and a PG - my ideal scenario would be:

Dalembert and Andre Miller from PHillie and Mike Miller from Memphis

Shawn and Banks would work financially for Dalembert and Andre Miller

Boris and the Atlanta pick would work for Mike Miller

By these we end up with

Centers: Dalembert, Skinner
Forwards:Amare, M MIller, Hill
SG: Raja and LB
PG: Nash and Andre Miller

That is a nine player rotation where everyone needs to play.

Bench fodder: Marks, Pike, Tucker and Strawberry

In the end, I would prefer to keep Shawn. As long as whatever we do we get rid of Boris I am A OK. I would take Andre Miller, Dalembert or Mike Miller for Boris and Filler in a nano second.

Kerr has some work to do - this roster is flawed.

[JediSkywalker]

All I know is that something will happen. Managment did not have a closed door meeting for nothing. Kerr didn't say it was an evaluation period for nothing. The team is concerned and I think we will see just how concerned in the coming week.


Where was this reported? Did they have a closed door meeting right after the game? Was Dantoni included?

Right after the Miami loos at home, Vash - Kerr, Sarver and D'Antoni. Please keep current, will ya?

I knew about that meeting. I thought may be there was one after that one (there needs to be one; this is getting unbearable).

The only good thing this team has done since that post-Miami meeting is that they beat the Spurs in SA (then they went to sleep)

[Xcon]

Once again, our robot of a Coach has to move LB from the starting line-up, where he's been lights out, and low and behold, his production plummets as has been the case all season. Is he really so blind to the stats regarding LB and being in the starting line-up? Jesus H what the hell is up with him. Oh well, another year and no title hopes. It's par for course with this team. Hopefully I live long enough to see them win one. Can't wait to see the spin that comes out tomorrow from our front office how there are positives in this loss, blah, blah, blah.

[JediSkywalker]

JWBaby,

You are not going to get anything of value without giving up Marion or STAT. LB may not be enough. Boris will not bring anything of value; we may have to package the Atl pick plus the 2009 pick to get rid of him, like we did with KT, who was more productive. However, in Diaw's defense I would say, he does have skills and he is playing more aggressively. I have seen steady improvement last four games. I would not just throw him away, like we did with KT.

I would like to get Pau Gasol but we will definitely need to part with Marion or STAT for that to happen. My choice would be Marion at this point because he cannot shoot anything other than alleyoops from Nash. We will still need that backup point guard (Miller- either Mike or Andre). The Atl pick plus Banks will have to go, and it may still be difficult to make that trade. We may even have to give up LB, which I really hate to do. However, the good thing about all these scenarios is that the Suns are not yet desperate, so they will have some leverage in the negotiations (unlike the KT trade where everyone knew we would give up anything to please Sarver).

[JediSkywalker]

Once again, our robot of a Coach has to move LB from the starting line-up, where he's been lights out, and low and behold, his production plummets as has been the case all season. Is he really so blind to the stats regarding LB and being in the starting line-up? Jesus H what the hell is up with him. Oh well, another year and no title hopes. It's par for course with this team. Hopefully I live long enough to see them win one. Can't wait to see the spin that comes out tomorrow from our front office how there are positives in this loss, blah, blah, blah.

I think the reason LB did not start was we needed Raja defensively against Kobe. HOwever, I would have liked to see LB longer, and sooner.

I am already tired of Dantoni saying how well the team played and how it is improving- all garbage. I prefer listening to Nash. He does not mince words.

[JackArse]

why does everyone want gasol? so we can have another soft big man tha tplays outside?

[Xcon]

Once again, our robot of a Coach has to move LB from the starting line-up, where he's been lights out, and low and behold, his production plummets as has been the case all season. Is he really so blind to the stats regarding LB and being in the starting line-up? Jesus H what the hell is up with him. Oh well, another year and no title hopes. It's par for course with this team. Hopefully I live long enough to see them win one. Can't wait to see the spin that comes out tomorrow from our front office how there are positives in this loss, blah, blah, blah.

I think the reason LB did not start was we needed Raja defensively against Kobe. HOwever, I would have liked to see LB longer, and sooner.

I am already tired of Dantoni saying how well the team played and how it is improving- all garbage. I prefer listening to Nash. He does not mince words.

I'm not so sure Raja's defense is worth it anymore. I'd be willing to see if LB could contain Kobe to 38, plus Kobe would have to guard LB at the other end too. Oh well, I've seen enough of the team this year to have no belief they'll even be around in the later rounds of the playoffs. If we go in as-is, I'm predicting a one and done.

[Xcon]

why does everyone want gasol? so we can have another soft big man tha tplays outside?

Have you seen him play, he actually has a very good back to the basket game.

[CharlesV]

Why I ever turned that game on is beyond me. The yule log channel was much better.

http://www.thealarmclock.com/mt/archives/yulelog.jpg

/ Merry Christmas

[AZSportsFan]

Even if D'Antoni were fired (why?), this team would be the same. Personnel mistakes have already been made and it is too late for a do-over. This team could in NO WAY be a half-court team. If you are blaming all of the teams problems on the coach or on a system, I think the blame is being spread too thickly. This started years ago - it will take years to fix unless THIS TEAM and THIS COACH fix it. Just my two cents.

[JediSkywalker]

Just read this on the Suns board (is anyone surprised by the answers?)

Suns Head Coach Mike D'Antoni

“Just couldn’t stop them. They played well. Bynum killed us, (and) Kobe. Got to give them credit. We didn’t come out, we didn’t stop them enough times. And there was a crucial part in the game where a couple things went against us and we didn’t hit foul shots, missed eleven fouls shots, and could’ve been a simple game, and got to do something to beat them, and we didn’t do it. They were good.”
(On Bynum as an up and coming player)
“I don’t know if he’s up and coming… he’s there. (The) guy scores eleven, twelve, thirteen rebounds, I don’t know. I hope he’s not up and coming. (Laughs). Got to give him credit. He did a good job.”

(On the difference of last season’s Lakers)
“Bynum and Derek Fisher. They’ve got two better players than they had last time. So, that’s a big huge difference.”

(On Bryant’s performance versus the Suns)
“Well, he’s going to close it out. When you give him a chance, he’s going to do that. That’s why he’s so good. But at the same time, I thought we had a chance. Especially in the middle of the end of the third, start of the fourth, we had our chances and we didn’t capitalize on some shots or foul shots or a call here and there just didn’t go our way and I have got to give them credit. They took off from there.”

(On team’s interior defense)
“That’s for you guys to figure out. (Laughs). Got to figure the pattern out. I mean, that’s where our weakness is no doubt. We didn’t do a great job. Again, Bynum is good. And then Kobe’s good. Derek Fisher. The guy that was probably the hardest was Ariza. Fourteen points is way too many and that hurt us. Again, they played well. Pick and rolls, they did a good job being patient and they’re a good team."

[desertcoast]

I must confess to feeling like the magic ride this core has been on is on the decline.
D'Antoni won't be let go this season, but he's got to know that this is the last hurrah.
He's only got about 1-2 months to build an obvious contender instead of a theoretical one.

Passion and consistency are his challenges with this squad, and I'm not sure he has any more of a strategy than any of us do.

What do you do with a team that seems to lack killer instict?

I wouldn't want his job right now..

[AZSportsFan]

I must confess to feeling like the magic ride this core has been on is on the decline.
D'Antoni won't be let go this season, but he's got to know that this is the last hurrah.
He's only got about 1-2 months to build an obvious contender instead of a theoretical one.

Passion and consistency are his challenges with this squad, and I'm not sure he has any more of a strategy than any of us do.

What do you do with a team that seems to lack killer instict?

I wouldn't want his job right now..

+1..

[JediSkywalker]

Once again, our robot of a Coach has to move LB from the starting line-up, where he's been lights out, and low and behold, his production plummets as has been the case all season. Is he really so blind to the stats regarding LB and being in the starting line-up? Jesus H what the hell is up with him. Oh well, another year and no title hopes. It's par for course with this team. Hopefully I live long enough to see them win one. Can't wait to see the spin that comes out tomorrow from our front office how there are positives in this loss, blah, blah, blah.

I think the reason LB did not start was we needed Raja defensively against Kobe. HOwever, I would have liked to see LB longer, and sooner.

I am already tired of Dantoni saying how well the team played and how it is improving- all garbage. I prefer listening to Nash. He does not mince words.

I'm not so sure Raja's defense is worth it anymore. I'd be willing to see if LB could contain Kobe to 38, plus Kobe would have to guard LB at the other end too. Oh well, I've seen enough of the team this year to have no belief they'll even be around in the later rounds of the playoffs. If we go in as-is, I'm predicting a one and done.

Even with the injury, Raja is a better defender than LB, who is not even an average defender, IMO. He can run and he can shoot, that's about it. Don't get me wrong. I love LB, but he can only be used in a certain way.


Kobe did get 38 points today, but the Suns were getting killed by just about every Laker today. If LB was guarding him, he might have scored 50 or 60.

[JediSkywalker]

I must confess to feeling like the magic ride this core has been on is on the decline.
D'Antoni won't be let go this season, but he's got to know that this is the last hurrah.
He's only got about 1-2 months to build an obvious contender instead of a theoretical one.

Passion and consistency are his challenges with this squad, and I'm not sure he has any more of a strategy than any of us do.

What do you do with a team that seems to lack killer instict?

I wouldn't want his job right now..

One thing Dantoni could do is learn to use all his resources, and make adjustments based on what is working during a game.

If some players are lackadaisical, there may be a reason for it; may be they are all being asked to do what they are not that good at.

[jkalldaway]

My point was that they had a closed door meeting for a reason. In addition, despite what some of you may think Coro has sources in the organization and if he says where there is smoke there us fire regarding the philly trade there has to be some merit. I really think there will be some sort of shake up soon.

[JediSkywalker]

My point was that they had a closed door meeting for a reason. In addition, despite what some of you may think Coro has sources in the organization and if he says where there is smoke there us fire regarding the philly trade there has to be some merit. I really think there will be some sort of shake up soon.

I hope you are right. I would hate to lose LB, however.

[Mori_Chu]

Demoralizing loss to our hated enemies. I agree with others that that Philly deal with Andre Miller and Dalembert seems intriguing. It would be easier to swing trades if we still had either of our 2008 or 2010 draft picks right now.

[sunsdotcom]

maybe dalembert + (whoever )is the only big we can get for XXXXXX. NO won't trade chandler because they're winning. lakers are winning too, so no odom. denver will be thin in their fronline if they gave up camby.

[JediSkywalker]

It was extremely short sighted to throw away BOTH 2008 and 2010 draft picks. My question is- if we get the right player, should we throw away the 2009 and/or Atlanta pick? That too would be short sighted, and the Suns would be putting all their eggs in one basket (the player we would trade for). I am not sure if it will be worth it. At this point I am willing to part with the Atlanta pick- for the right player, of course.

[CharlesV]

I must confess to feeling like the magic ride this core has been on is on the decline.

NO.

The basketball fan in me understands where this team may be headed.

The Suns fan in me knows that we are talking about December basketball. It's like Iverson talked about practice. We talking about practice. Practice. Not a game, we talking about practice.

We saw the Spurs cruise through the regular season last year and win the Finals.

OTOH, The Mavs won the regular season by a large margin, and how did that work out for them?

I put no stock in todays game...it would have been nice to win, no doubt bout it.

If it mattered, we would have won it.

/Suns fan

[sunsdotcom]

LB is almost untouchable at this point because his contract is really nice (in sarver's eyes) for the type of production he brings.

[JediSkywalker]

maybe dalembert + (whoever )is the only big we can get for XXXXXX. NO won't trade chandler because they're winning. lakers are winning too, so no odom. denver will be thin in their fronline if they gave up camby.

OTOH Denver is one team that is missing draft picks, due to the AI trade. For the Atl pick will they consider trading Camby?

[sunsdotcom]

I put no stock in todays game...it would have been nice to win, no doubt bout it.

If it mattered, we would have won it.



"I was pretty upset. I thought he disrespected our players, but he likes to play the mind game, and that’s fine. He might want to try and do it in playoff time when we bust them every time. We get them three more times. That’s fine."

[JustWinBaby]

Once again, our robot of a Coach has to move LB from the starting line-up, where he's been lights out, and low and behold, his production plummets as has been the case all season. Is he really so blind to the stats regarding LB and being in the starting line-up? Jesus H what the hell is up with him. Oh well, another year and no title hopes. It's par for course with this team. Hopefully I live long enough to see them win one. Can't wait to see the spin that comes out tomorrow from our front office how there are positives in this loss, blah, blah, blah.

I think the reason LB did not start was we needed Raja defensively against Kobe. HOwever, I would have liked to see LB longer, and sooner.

I am already tired of Dantoni saying how well the team played and how it is improving- all garbage. I prefer listening to Nash. He does not mince words.

This probably will not be favorable but I will say it anyway.

Raja may be our heart and soul but he ain't no way shape or form 1st team all defense. The have caught up to his flopping ways.

He was toasted tonight and has been many times but gets all these defensive kudos. I love the guy but his defense is way overated IMO. Surely Kobe was on tonight and would have got his against anyone and he did, be it Raja, Marion and Hill.

The fool hearty notion of Raja Stopping Kobe is the reason he started is just that. Normally Kobe feels out the game and in the beginning is not real agressive.

Forget all that - we are undefeated with LB starting - why not continue the trend?

Would you had to choose between Raja and LB - which one would you keep?

I would keep LB - if he never had to play the point.

[desertcoast]

AT this point, the current chemistry is not compelling enough to challenge the notion of gambling a bit to improve it.

Kerr is smart enough to know this group is not on a championship drive.

At the very least, it'll be tinkered with this off season, possibly rebuilt....substantially. Why not go for it now..?

But if the scenarios don't really make you better, you're just making a change for the sake of it. In that case, the best bet remains the group you've got.

D'antoni just looks pissed, stressed and annoyed.
Forget the soundbytes; he knows this squad isn't a title contender

[JediSkywalker]

Raja is one of three Suns that give it all everytime. All the other Suns have been inconsistent in their efforts. I would rather go for consistency and heart than for someone that can score points in bunches in one game, then disappears in the next (I am not pointing at any particular player; we have MANY inconsistent ones).

[CharlesV]

"I was pretty upset. I thought he disrespected our players, but he likes to play the mind game, and that’s fine. He might want to try and do it in playoff time when we bust them every time. We get them three more times. That’s fine."

(a very uncomfortable) Word.

I hear you. Todays game was not good.

"December Basketball"

Repeat, rinse, repeat, then repeat again.

[sunsdotcom]

D'antoni just looks pissed, stressed and annoyed.
Forget the soundbytes; he knows this squad isn't a title contender

the guys as KTAR always like to ask majerle and dantoni whether this team is better than last years. I notice that dantoni always reply by saying that the current suns team "has the POTENTIAL" to be as good as last years. ditto for thunder.

[FurlanFufi]

I'm watching the highlights...seems like it's not just on offense that Raja is a step slow, compared to ast year...Kobe got past him like he's wearing cement shoes...

[Superbone]

Why I ever turned that game on is beyond me. The yule log channel was much better.

http://www.thealarmclock.com/mt/archives/yulelog.jpg

/ Merry Christmas

At least we would have seen some fire.

[CharlesV]

Why I ever turned that game on is beyond me. The yule log channel was much better.

http://www.thealarmclock.com/mt/archives/yulelog.jpg

/ Merry Christmas

At least we would have seen some fire.

Thank you.

[sunsdotcom]

maybe after amare's cri de coeur, he will get some help up front.

[Shabazz]

"I was pretty upset. I thought he disrespected our players, but he likes to play the mind game, and that’s fine. He might want to try and do it in playoff time when we bust them every time. We get them three more times. That’s fine."

(a very uncomfortable) Word.

I hear you. Todays game was not good.

"December Basketball"

Repeat, rinse, repeat, then repeat again.

I'd really like to think the same thing. I have been telling myself all year that the Spurs went through this last year and toughed it out. The difference is they know how to flip the switch in March and get hot at the right time. Do we?

[SpecialSauce]

traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaade MARION! Seriously though, do it dammit. I was ready for him to be gone before the season began. And it's because his genius on the defensive end is completely cancelled out by his deficiencies on the offensive end. This team can't stop anybody anyway, so why not trade so we can get a more efficient offense?!

[sunsdotcom]

i'd like dantoni to try this lineup vs the clippers.

nash - pg
barbosa - sg
marion - sf
amare - pf/c
diaw - c/pf

coach should tell grant that he will continue to get the same number of minutes... off the bench. raja will play the role he was originally brought in for, as backup sg and defensive specialist.

experiment now while it's still early in the regular season.

[Xcon]

So shitty play in the regular season equals post season success? Does that mean Minnesota is gonig to win a ring this year?

[desertcoast]

...I have been telling myself all year that the Spurs went through this last year and toughed it out. The difference is they know how to flip the switch in March and get hot at the right time. Do we?

Agreed.
I've been selling myself on that line of reasoning as well.
But I'm starting to not buy it anymore....

Maybe I'm not a very good salesman to myself :wink:

[INFORMER]

I would like to get Pau Gasol but we will definitely need to part with Marion or STAT for that to happen. My choice would be Marion at this point because he cannot shoot anything other than alleyoops from Nash.

Pau Gasol does nothing for this team. He's a good player getting paid to be a franchise player. He's average on the boards and on D, and isn't anything special on offense. Why, WHY are people clamoring for him?


Why I ever turned that game on is beyond me. The yule log channel was much better.

I disagree. Certainly you're entitled to your opinion, but I felt it was a good game. The Lakers just outplayed the Suns, which, of course, sucks for Suns' fans.


Even if D'Antoni were fired (why?), this team would be the same.

Exactly. Firing D'Antoni would mean starting over. And I've never been a fan of dumping a coach when there isn't a clearly better option readily available. I don't see a better option for this team than DA.


Now, this is what an aggressive Boris looks like. Even though he was 3/9, he drew fouls, got 4 FT attempts, and 5 defensive rebounds.


I said Boris was done awhile ago, but his latest flashes of aggression and asseriveness has renewed a flicker of hope inside of me. Believe it or not (even though he still isn't playing that well) I would have a hard time parting with Boris, against my better judgment.


Amare is just different this year. Not only is he not playing like '04-'05

Hold on for a sec. The 04-05 Amare may have been a great scorer, but he also was inconsistent on the boards, bad on D, and took games off. Amare has lost some athleticism, but the reports of his demise are being greatly exaggerated. He needs more touches.


lakers are winning too, so no odom.

Odom is terrible. I promise, people are trying to bring every underachieving max player in the league to this team (AK47, Odom, Gasol---although in Gasol's case, he just isn't that talented, PERIOD).


OTOH, The Mavs won the regular season by a large margin, and how did that work out for them?

The Bulls won 72 and won it all. I realize regular season success isn't everything, but the Spurs don't ever look like the Suns and the Mavs got bounced because they're the Mavs, not because they put too much emphasis on the regular season.


LB is almost untouchable at this point because his contract is really nice (in sarver's eyes) for the type of production he brings.

Agreed.


Kerr is smart enough to know this group is not on a championship drive.


Is he? And is it really that certain that this team can't win it all?

[ShelC]

Is he? And is it really that certain that this team can't win it all?

I think Kerr is smart enough to see that we're not playing with championship level consistancy and definitely dont play championship level defense. The real question is whether Kerr is smart enough to make the right decisions regarding this team, be it a trade, a firing, or leaving things as they are.

I think i have to disagree with your take on Gasol Inf. I think hes simply burnt out and finished with Memphis, just going thru the motions. I dont think hes as hungry or plays with as much intensity as when he first got to Memphis cuz of the situation there. He knows theyre rebuilding and as much as he may want to, he cant change things on his own. I think bringing him here, or to any winning team, would bring out the best in him. Hes a smart basketball player, fundamental and skilled inside and out. Hes not dominant in any one area, but i think hes good enough to make a difference here depending on who would be left after any trade.

[Ring_Wanted]

Gasol is soft on D and on the boards. Sure, getting out of Memphis would make him play harder, but he isn't what we need. Also, we can't afford him unless Marion or Amare are involved, and I'd take any of them before Pau in a heartbeat.

Right now we have some problems that I don't think a trade can solve. It's not excuses, just some issues our team is going through: Injury problems, lack of effort on D and shooting consistency.

Our players have to play with more sense of urgency. Nash can't do it all every night. Bell banged up doesn't help, either.

Our coach has some blame, too. If we are not that 3pt shooting team anymore due to lack of the right players, he has to focus more on Amare and Hill.

Honestly, what can Kerr do in the middle of the season with no cap flexibility, no other pick besides Atlanta's (getting worse with the minute) and with two horrible contracts in Banks and Diaw, who on top of that is a BYC player?

We have what we have. We are still elite, and we can win the title if everything starts to work, but it's on Mike D and the players' hands to make it happen.

[jkalldaway]

Did anyone else want to inject some youth (Tucker, DJ even though he isn't with the team right now) into the game? Talk about lack of intensity, those two would have played balls to the wall in a game like that.

[AlanS]

Well, the thing that kept the team in the game was 3PT shooting, Suns were 10/24 (41.6%) from the arc. And Tuck and Straw have reputations for being poor 3 PT shooters.

And also, I don't know if I'd want either one of them to have to guard Kobe Bryant as their first significant NBA experience.

[darrkin]

I really think we need more youth and excitement. We just dont seem to have the right mix right now. I do think there is gonna be some kinda trade soon. Time to unload Diaw and Matrix for some youngs and a shooter or two. I could see us doing something with Philly or Chicago or Memphis.

[INFORMER]

Time to unload Diaw and Matrix for some youngs and a shooter or two.

Funny thing is, Diaw is young. And Marion isn't that old at all. Nevertheless, the mismanagement of the past X (I've lost count) drafts is taking its toll this season.

[ShelC]

lack of effort on D and shooting consistency.

Its not a lack of effort on D. Its a lack of knowledge of how to play D and a lack of interest. We're not disciplined defensively and we have no real defensive principles.

Shooting consistency? We lack shooters.

This team is pissing me off because we claim to be a fast break team yet i see us consistently walking the ball up and playing pick and roll, then settling for long jumpers. We're not the run and gun Suns anymore. We claim to be, and we have Nash and are scoring a ton of points. But we're not overwhelming teams anymore, not outrunning them to where theyre tired by the middle of the 4th and we're still chugging along. We're not going on 14-2 runs three and four times a game. We're much more of a traditional type of team now trying to run and gun. Sometimes our shots are falling, sometimes theyre not. But the one things thats almost always happening is teams are scoring against us. When we shoot well, we can hold them off. When we dont shoot well, we cant get stops so we trade baskets or fall behind.


Gasol is soft on D and on the boards. Sure, getting out of Memphis would make him play harder, but he isn't what we need. Also, we can't afford him unless Marion or Amare are involved, and I'd take any of them before Pau in a heartbeat.

But if Gasol fits in better offensively, does that negate the supposed (i dont think hes that soft) soft D? If Gasol plays smarter and harder on both ends than Amare, are we better even if hes nto individually better than Amare?

Playing the rooks would smack of desperation IMO. It means we cant rely on our vets, we're too old and we have no more answers. And if u guys really think tucker and/or DJ are going to be the difference in close games against WC rivals, well we're in bigger trouble than we think.

[JediSkywalker]

Just to get some energy on the field- any change is a good change right now- I think it is a good idea to put the rookies on the floor and let them play a few minutes at a time. I think they will jump start the Suns. Of course you cannot leave it up to them for very long, or the Suns could be in a hole. HOwever, if lack of energy is the root of the problem, there is plenty of energy in those young men.

[Phoenix219]

I've seen a lot of hesitation with the 3 point shooting, and a propensity for over passing lately. Marion and Raja have both been hesitant shooting, and thats when Nash started shooting 3s to try to open things up himself. We really are lacking in 3 point shooting this year and thats putting the pressure on the front court where we are weak. When we are hitting our shots, it opens things up for our small front court and thats where Marion and Amare beast on the breaks and whatnot. We'd be going on those spurts and running and energetic, but we need the crazy threes to pump us up and get us going and open up the floor. We need that shooting big, the Tim Thomas/old Shawn Marion/Q type bigger versatile player that can still pop a 3 and hit it. Right now all our 3 point shooting is coming from the backcourt. If Hill, Diaw and Marion were hitting their 3 point shots, or if Tucker had a 3, or if Pike had legs, or if Banks wasn't such a liability, we might be seeing more of what we need. Shawn and Amare both feed off emotions and intensity that comes from the crazy runs and again that is all reliant on the 3 point shooters. We somehow get our shots falling, I bet you'll see the whole team energized, particular those two.

[Mori_Chu]

On the bright side, Amare wasn't afraid to shoot a 3 in the closing moments of the Lakers game ... Oh, wait. That was bad.

[Shabazz]

To be honest, at this point I'd rather Amare shooting 3s than Shawn.

[Velo]

that flip-shot shotput thing he has going on just drives me crazy...

the reason teams can put a large 3 on nash is because the 1s can guard marion because he can't shoot for shank. his post-up game is non-existent and he has no hope of shooting over the 1s because its such a low release.

c'mon shawn, rework that shot one summer instead of catching up on scooby-do re-runs!

[Uncle_Gene]

I was at the game and was encouraged by the 3's we hit, then discouraged by Diaw (what's new). He needs to be more productive. Bynum is the future for them, he played well. M-V-Steve played great, Stat needs to be more aggressive offensively. Lakers length crushed the Suns on the boards.

Lakers turned it up in the 4th and took the win. Suns gotta get it together.

[JediSkywalker]

To be honest, at this point I'd rather Amare shooting 3s than Shawn.


The funny thing was- at the LAC game tonight, Marion took a 3-point shot and missed it. I said, why is he even trying a 3-pointer when it is obvious he cannot make one? Almost immediately after that, Marion made two 3-pointers in a row. So he has the shot, but for some reason he cannot make it consistently this season.

Amare absolutely must stay away from a 3-pointer. We need him near the basket.

[Phoenix219]

I have no problem with Marion shooting threes when he IS making them, and the last couple games he seems to be improving. Its not going to help until he becomes an actual 3 point THREAT... meaning he needs to draw defenders out to guard him - and this is a start, at least. Then he needs to know when to take the shot and when to pass it.

The fact that Shawn, Raja and Hill pass up open 3s a lot really slows the offense down. That extra pass is TOO much - [b]what happened to "if its a good shot, take it as soon as you get it, 7 seconds or less"[b] - we see to be afraid to shoot and pass up shots that TT, Q or House would have jacked up without thinking twice. We need those kind of shooting instincts for this offense, which means that Raja, Shawn, and Grant need to start jacking 3s when they're supposed to - but *make* them too....

[Wormwood]

My wife noticed how empty the lower bowl is here, and had a suggestion. Institute a "use it or lose it policy."

If no one has claimed a seat by the end 1st quarter, the seat will be available at the box office window for $10. The unused corporate ticket will be null and void, and the newly issued ticket will get a real fan's butt in a near courtside seat.

If a seat goes unused more than 20 games in a season, the owner of that season ticket will be deemed a "bad tennant" and lose said rights to purchase season tickets for that particualr seat next year. The season ticket rights to that seat will be freed up, and available for sale the next season.