Saturday's News: It's happy time for anyone not named Raja Bell

[SwingMan]

December is jolly for Suns (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1221suns1222.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/pics/1221suns.jpg
Steve Nash (from left), Brin Skinner, Amaré Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and Leandro Barbosa have helped guide the Suns to an 18-8 start to the season.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 21, 2007 10:18 PM

So what's all the fuss?

After all the self-criticism off the court, repeated shortcomings on the court and four losses in six games, the Suns were filled with holiday spirit Friday. And that was long before they played and ate with 100 group-home children to whom they gave gifts.

The Suns already were merrier than elves, focusing on how a 1-2 road trip was skewed by bad first quarters in the New Orleans and Dallas losses. Other than that, the Suns challenged the West's best on the road and feel that will be the gift that keeps on giving.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

Phoenix coach Mike D'Antoni said the team made progress. Center Amaré Stoudemire said the team is on the right track. Guard Steve Nash, often the resident critic, said everyone needs to be realistic.

"The city's on suicide watch and we're right in the hunt," said Nash, who was at wit's end over a lack of early effort Wednesday and last Saturday. "That's OK. Luckily, I just hear about it secondhand. I'm in my foxhole all day. I'm just happy we've got a great group of guys and a lot of potential.

"That's OK if everyone wants to have these huge expectations every single night through November, December and January. We're the ones who expect the most from ourselves, and we know when it counts the most."

Maybe home is where the heart is. The Suns get to play at home tonight after eight of 10 on the road. The Suns' 10 home games this season is an NBA low but the Suns (18-8) are tied for the most wins in the West entering Friday's games.

Suns forward Grant Hill is in a self-described heaven, making this widespread displeasure feel foreign. His teams have been above .500 only three times in the previous 10 seasons.

"If we were 18-8, we were doing cartwheels," Hill said. "We were throwing parties and the whole bit. That's part of having high expectations. It's not just about your record or your place in terms of everything else. It's not even just about winning. We've had games we won but we didn't play well. It's about to playing to our capabilities."

As for the issues, they still exist:

• Guard Raja Bell sat out practice Friday because of the left ankle sprain he suffered late in Wednesday's game. During Friday's practice, he went to the floor with back spasms. D'Antoni said Bell's status for tonight's game against Toronto would depend on how he felt today.
Swing's note: Get the fucking hint, Mike - you're destroying him by not letting him heal.....

• D'Antoni on the Suns' offensive woes without Nash: "Let me take the best playmaker for the last 10 years and see if you do better. Well, I don't think you do better. So now we beat that to death. Let's see if I get that worse by really being desperate. We just need to hold our own and I think we're doing it. Those guys are doing a great job. There is going to be a drop-off after Steve leaves the game. Chicago Bulls had a drop-off for 10 years after Michael Jordan left the game and that's normal."

• D'Antoni on Boris Diaw's 2-of-9 shooting Wednesday: "He's trying to be aggressive. He's trying to do what we're asking him to do. So you can't fault him just because they don't go in. Now what? Tell him not to shoot 'em? As long as he stays aggressive, we're cool."

• D'Antoni on Stoudemire saying he has to play harder all game: "People talk like that, and that's only good because we all have to learn to get better. We can all do a better job and he will. If he's like that, he will. I've never seen anything Amaré's put his mind to that he hasn't done."

Saturday's game

Raptors at Suns

When: 7 p.m.
Where: US Airways Center.
TV/radio: My 45/KTAR-AM (620).

Toronto update: The Raptors finish a four-game West swing Saturday night after playing Friday at Seattle but have the next five days off. They are without T.J. Ford, who aggravated a congenital spinal condition when he fell on Dec. 12, and he has been seeing numerous many doctors. Jose Calderon has played well for him at the point, and the Raptors again have Chris Bosh, who was hurt for Phoenix's 136-123 win in Toronto on Dec. 5.

[sunsdotcom]

wow, 10 in a row for portland.

[sunsdotcom]

i think we'll be seeing some banks and tucker vs. toronto.

[Superbone]

i think we'll be seeing some banks and tucker vs. toronto.

You saying we're going to blow them out? Must be as that's the only way Banks or Tucker ever see any time. I hope you're right. It would be fun to see another 40+ point quarter.

[Phoenix219]

I think he means, Raja better be getting some fucking rest!! Start Barbs, bring Banks and Tuck off the bench.

Of course, Mike'll probably bring in Eric P....

[ShelC]

From the Salt Lake Tribune:

If they cut ties with guard Gordan Giricek, whether through a trade or buyout, the Jazz could risk helping some of the Western Conference's top teams, league sources said Friday.

Among the teams most interested in trading for Giricek are Phoenix and Dallas. The Suns had interest in Giricek this summer as a piece in a potential Andrei Kirilenko deal and Dallas called about Giricek recently.

[Wormwood]

i think we'll be seeing some banks and tucker vs. toronto.

You saying we're going to blow them out? Must be as that's the only way Banks or Tucker ever see any time. I hope you're right. It would be fun to see another 40+ point quarter.

If we're playing Banks, Toronto is much more likely to have a 40 point 1st quarter than we are.

I would much rather give Tucker a try out playing alongside Barbosa as a SG and as a SF when Nash and Barbosa are in (i.e. to give Hill a breather).

We have no idea what Tucker would do with real minutes. Banks has almost universally pissed them away.

[Bogyo]

On a sidenote: eff Atlanta for finding their way out of the NBA toilett in the worst possible time for us. They will make the playoffs in the east this year.

[frezix]

Does it seem like Albuquerque only plays every once in a blue moon? I've been waiting to see DJ and it feels like forever.

[JediSkywalker]

On a sidenote: eff Atlanta for finding their way out of the NBA toilett in the worst possible time for us. They will make the playoffs in the east this year.

Atlanta was not doing that poorly last year either. They simply decided to sit JJ so that they could lose their remaining games and get in the lottery. Barring an injury to a key player (JJ) they will make the playoffs in the east this year. Making the playoffs last year would have been disastrous to them.

[JediSkywalker]

i think we'll be seeing some banks and tucker vs. toronto.

You saying we're going to blow them out? Must be as that's the only way Banks or Tucker ever see any time. I hope you're right. It would be fun to see another 40+ point quarter.


It's not going to happen. Toronto is a good team and they will play hard. The Suns and their fans better not take them lightly or we may see another Miami type loss at home.

Who is going to the game tonight?

[Superbone]

i think we'll be seeing some banks and tucker vs. toronto.

You saying we're going to blow them out? Must be as that's the only way Banks or Tucker ever see any time. I hope you're right. It would be fun to see another 40+ point quarter.

If we're playing Banks, Toronto is mu more likely to have a 40 point 1st quarter than we are.

I would much rather give Tucker a try out playing alongside Barbosa as a SG and as a SF wen Nash and Barbosa are in (i.e. to give Hill a breather).

We have no idea what Tucker would do with real minutes. Banks has almost universally pissed them away.

I wasn't saying he'd be playing in the 1st quarter, Worm. I'm saying it would take us having a 40+ point quarter and aquiring a large lead to enable Banks and Tucker to play in the 4th.

[Superbone]

Does it seem like Albuquerque only plays every once in a blue moon? I've been waiting to see DJ and it feels like forever.

Speaking of which, check this out:



RULES’ RULES

When we left our D-League correspondent, Jeff Ruland, emperor of the Albuquerque T-Birds, a week ago, things weren’t going so well. He had been smacked in back-to-back games, been tossed out of one game for saying something about how the referee’s aunt would be his uncle if … something…

Well, the T-Birds were flying to Ontario and taking vans to Bakersfield and Ruland had never, ever heard of an airport in Ontario, Calif. That’s in Canada, right? Anyway, the good news was that he had a first-round draft pick riding with him.

The T-Birds have a partnership with the Phoenix Suns, so when Suns GM Steve Kerr wants minutes for his two rookies, Alando Tucker and D.J. Strawberry, he’ll send them one at a time down to Ruland.

So Tucker banged Bakersfield for 40 points – hitting for a 36-point average in two victories – and the T-Birds are back to .500 for Christmas. Now, Tucker has gone back to the Suns and Strawberry’s come down.

This has Rules’ thinking, of course. He’s always thinking about these things. Maybe Kerr will send him Shawn Marion this year?

“Just at the end to make a playoff run,” he pleaded.


:lol:

[Superbone]

Who is going to the game tonight?

Hopefully, Boris. ;)

[Bogyo]

Yeah, Toronto has a bunch of guards who could be problematic for us with the Nash injuries and (maybe) without Bell.

But Amare will have a big game, and will win! :)

[darrkin]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

[Superbone]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.

[JediSkywalker]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.


These kinds of comments really bother me. These are NBA teams and anyone can beat any team on a given day. Have you not learned anything from the Minnesota and Miami games? I hope the Suns have even though their fans have not. If the Suns play the way they did in the 1st Q against Dallas and NOH, they will be in trouble even against the Raptors, and most certainly against the Lakers who are playing great this year (more as a team than ever before). The Suns better take both these games seriously.

[JediSkywalker]

How could they print a pic of the team without one of their starters- Raja Bell? He is injured but he has contributed in many games that the Suns won. I hope he won't let his ego get in the way. They really needed to have a picture with Bell in it- may be they did not have one where everyone was smiling.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

We are on the right track work the ball inside out

[SwingMan]

From the Salt Lake Tribune:

If they cut ties with guard Gordan Giricek, whether through a trade or buyout, the Jazz could risk helping some of the Western Conference's top teams, league sources said Friday.

Among the teams most interested in trading for Giricek are Phoenix and Dallas. The Suns had interest in Giricek this summer as a piece in a potential Andrei Kirilenko deal and Dallas called about Giricek recently.

We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Shooting. Guard.

If they take Banks, fine. If not, fuck 'em.....

[misteradiant]

but swing, you can't have too many shooters, remember?

- jackoffasaurus rex

[SwingMan]

but swing, you can't have too many shooters, remember?

- jackoffasaurus rex

If Kerr gets Gircek before addressing back-up 4/5, there's gonna be another shooter with the team - me, with a 12 gauge.....

[Nodack]

"The city is on suicide watch and we are right in the hunt."- Steve Nash

Somebody must be reading this site from the Suns organization. Nash's comment and some of D'Antoni's comments make them seem on the defensive with the fans.

Hey Suns, only some here are on suicide watch. There are plenty of people that are enjoying the Suns season. Don't let a bunch of armchair coaches deter you from what you need to do. If you listen and did what half those guys said you would have traded everybody on the team by now, we would have a new coach, a new style and a new owner. When that team didn't meet expectations, they would be traded too. This cycle would repeat about every week until we set a new NBA record for the most players to play on one team in one season.

In conclusion, just ignore us, we don't know what the hell we are talking about.

[sehan]

How could they print a pic of the team without one of their starters- Raja Bell? He is injured but he has contributed in many games that the Suns won. I hope he won't let his ego get in the way. They really needed to have a picture with Bell in it- may be they did not have one where everyone was smiling.

For god sakes - on any other team, Bell is a role player that comes off the bench. This team and the fans are so focused on making everyone "happy". Is players like Bell allowed to have egos?

What happened to good old days when we just worry about egos of super stars and damn the rest.

Having said all that (is MR around?), Bell is a character guy with good head on his shoulder. I am sure his perspective is well rounded enough that his poor feelings are not hurt. Despite how we all get worked up about it, there are more important things in life, especially this time of the year, than showing up on some poster.

Merry x-mas.

[ShelC]

We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Shooting. Guard.

If they take Banks, fine. If not, fuck 'em.....

I think we could use one. You guys can cry about Tucker and Straw day and night but those guys arent going to contribute the way we need them to this year and MikeD isnt going to rely on them. Giricek is a known NBA shooter who can help a veteran team. With Rajas health up in the air more often than not this year, we need that extra body/shooter at the 2spot.

The question is how we cut that deal. They probably wont take banks unless we throw in the ATL pick. The ATL pick isnt what we thought it would be, but do we really want to trade it to a WC rival to rent a guy for 1/2 a season, even if it does rid us of Banks?

Again, we have money from our trade exceptions, but we'd be adding twice the salary without giving any up and Sarver aint about to do that.

[AZSportsFan]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.

It is a game after a two-day break. The Suns can and should win, but if they do it will NOT be a blowout.

[Superbone]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.


These kinds of comments really bother me. These are NBA teams and anyone can beat any team on a given day. Have you not learned anything from the Minnesota and Miami games? I hope the Suns have even though their fans have not. If the Suns play the way they did in the 1st Q against Dallas and NOH, they will be in trouble even against the Raptors, and most certainly against the Lakers who are playing great this year (more as a team than ever before). The Suns better take both these games seriously.

Wow, if that bothers you...

Have I not learned anything? You're just not paying attention, Vash. The first "bust their ass" comment is D'Antoni's in regards to the Lakers after they tried to embarrass the Suns in our house. D'Antoni and the Suns will be out for revenge on Xmas day.

As far as the Raptors are concerned, yeah, I think we beat them in convincing fashion tonight just as we did on the road last time. They are coming off a back to back whereas we are well rested and starting to pick it up defensively. Also, I think our guys are pumped to be playing at home. Of course any team can win on any night. I'm not talking about any night. I'm talking about tonight, baby! Get off your high horse, Vash.

[Superbone]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.

It is a game after a two-day break. The Suns can and should win, but if they do it will NOT be a blowout.

We'll see...

I think we win by 10+ at least.

[tomk]

Someone said the Suns must be reading this board. NO WAY, are you kidding. Sometimes I have a hard time reading the posts. Most of the high volume posters, remember I said most, are ready to trade a player after one or two bad games. Then they want to blow up the whole organization if they aren't willing to get a particular player. Then others complain that Sarver is cheap and at the same time say ticket prices are too high.

This is the last place I would go for advice if I was part of the Suns organization. The main reason, no coherent thought process.

I know, I am missing commas above. Use some of these ", , , , , , , , ," and insert enough until you feel comfortable.

[Catharsis]

Who is going to the game tonight?

Hopefully, Boris. ;)

LOL!! :razz:

[Phoenix219]

We might jump the gun a bit, but there is usually some kind of thought process that led us to that place, and we are definately able to think outside the box and outside the norm for the team, so honestly, if someone in the org is reading this site, kudos, good shit - maybe they'll see something useful. They are smart enough to ignore the bullshit.

[misteradiant]

Someone said the Suns must be reading this board. NO WAY, are you kidding. Sometimes I have a hard time reading the posts. Most of the high volume posters, remember I said most, are ready to trade a player after one or two bad games. Then they want to blow up the whole organization if they aren't willing to get a particular player. Then others complain that Sarver is cheap and at the same time say ticket prices are too high.

This is the last place I would go for advice if I was part of the Suns organization. The main reason, no coherent thought process.

but it's the first place you go to get a sense of what suns fans in general are feeling. you want coherent from a hundred regular posters? half of us are drunk when we post here. that used to be a prerequisite for journalists everywhere. we are home of tradition!

seriously though, when a tv network gets an email, they consider it the opinion of no less than 1,000 of their viewers. you can disagree with the trade speculation that permeates this site all you want (god knows i do), but it's endemic of the town's opinions in general. if anything, we are more intelligent and thoughtful than the garbage that gets posted on azcentral.

and what about this "planet orange" deal the suns have set up? anybody go there? what do those people say?

my bet is we are the most coherent suns-related message board in the world and a few suns writers come here periodically to see what's up.

- jackoffasaurus rex

[BigLewy]

So I was perusing RealGM and came across this trade rumor supposedly from someone with a "source." (Yes, I know, it is total BS, but trade scenarios are so much fun!!)

Anyways, it was Dalembert/Iggy for Diaw/Barbs and either the Atl pick or Tucker and a future 1st.

This was all supposedly based on the assumption Marion opts out.

So, who wants to discuss more trade rumors that will never pan out? With that being said (that was for you, mr), it is an interesting deal. Too bad we didnt just draft him in the first place.

Now go ahead and throw stones at me for bringing up trade rumors.

[misteradiant]

oh yeah. that'll happen. and here's your poem, lewy. from my unpublished book "how to cry and still kick their ass:"

i can tell you one thing that is true now
losing your freedom is worse than never having it
i have seen soulless bodies
and smelled what death does to the flesh of our bones of clay
from atoms of forces that are like magic to us
i know something of the man who more changed the world than any
it all goes on forever
and because we can find no rule to answer what the universe does
it does everything
everything is possible
especially the impossible

[misteradiant]

Having said all that (is MR around)...

no i am not around. i'm asquare.

liar:

encircle the earth with metamaterial and pull your coup d'état
yank it from your pocket mister rocket
bloody from your wars
murderer
just because you think nobody sees it
like a tree falls silent in the forest
we all know what a scholar you are
i will stand and yell and point my finger at you
liar!
hypocrite!
you will one day be jailed for what you are doing
one day the people will be free again
we will punish you using your own law
and banish you with it afterward
invisible like your new prisons
filled with tortured people
oil looks like blood in black and white
it covers you entirely
one day it will make you slip and fall

[Mori_Chu]

I'd love to have Giricek. Every time I watch the Jazz I find myself thinking, "That guy looks like he belongs on the Suns." I am sure he'd be in the rotation right away if we got him.

And YES, I do think we actually need another guard. We have a frighteningly thin 3-guard rotation right now between Nash, Barbs, and Raja. We need a 4th guy to be our backup 2, assuming Nash/Raja start and LB/Giricek come off the bench. We also need 3pt shooting, and whaddakaknow, Giricek is a great 3pt shooter.

Get 'er done, Kerr!!

[AlanS]

Yesterday or Thursday, NBA-TV re-played the Albuquerque Thunderbirds versus Bakersfield Jam D-League game where Alando Tucker (of the T-birds) scored 40 pts. I missed most of the 1st half and was channel-flipping thru a lot of the 2nd, but here are some comments from what I saw. (The T-birds won, 109-102.)

First off, I was struck by how short the players were. If these two teams are representative, then the D-League is basically a small-ball league. The center for the T-birds was NBA vet Darvin Ham, who is an under-sized PF in he NBA. The center for the Jam seemed to be around 6'9", but he was slow (the announcers said he was playing thru an injury).

So basically, there was no shot blocking or interior defense to worry about. As such, a player with the ability to get in the lane and finish was gonna have a field day - and such was the case with Tucker.

Tucker played most of the game (that i saw) at SF. I tried to compare him to somebody... he seems to me like a poor-man's Jerry Stackhouse. He showed the ability to put the ball on the floor, get to the basket, and either finish or draw a foul. As a change of pace, he was able to get in or near the lane and make short/short mid-range jumpers. But put the emphasis on poor man's Jerry Stackhouse: Stack is faster, bigger, stronger, and a better shooter - or at least, that was my feel from this one game.

It's obvious Tucker has a scorer's mentality. He went to the hoop, almost always from the left side of the court, time and time again. At the D-League level, or at least in this game, there was nobody who could stop him. (On one of the few times he set up from the right side of the court, he turned his back to the basket and ran a set play, where he passed to a teammate cutting going to the hoop. The play worked, and I think the teammate drew a shooting foul.)

The announcers made the point several times that Tucker is not flashy. The thing about Tucker, he's not an explosive athlete who beats you with pure speed and quickness. He's what I call a skilled, body control athlete. This type of athlete is exemplified by Larry Bird. Bird was not explosive or blessed with great foot speed. But he was highly skilled, had great hand-eye coordination, and was very agile, although that was hard to appreciate because he wasn't very fast.

Tucker is not very fast to the hoop, but he handles well enough to get there without being stopped. He has a good vertical and body control/hang time when getting his shot off, and he's skillful enough to make the shot. He's not afraid to get hit, and often will play for the foul.

He ran the break OK, and can finish. He's not super-fast though; several times he ran down court, and guys on the other team caught up with him to challenge his shot. A couple of times, Tucker tried to pass off to teammates, but made bad passes... at least, bad passes for guys with D-League hands and jumping ability.

He was 2/4 from the arc, but his 3PT shot still seems suspect. One of his 2 treys was a lucky shot (hit the back-board and went in). But I see he shot 40% from the arc while with the T-birds, so who knows. In his senior year, Tucker was streaky from the arc: one game, he'd go 3/5 on 3s; the next two games, he'd go 1/4 and 2/6. If he can become consistent, he'd be OK. It's not out the question he can become a decent shooter, but he needs more work.

But the thing Tucker should work on right now is the range on his mid-range shot. It was clear from this game, and from his play in college, you don't want him near the basket. People will play off him on the outside, all the time. If he could make outside jumpers with consistency, he could really cause problems on the offensive end.

I can't talk at all about his defense. There was not much 'D' being played, and nobody really challenged him on the defensive end. Tucker was able to use all of his energy on offense.

He didn't really look like a good defensive rebounder. I wasn't impressed with the way he went after the ball. In fact, it seemed like he had a guard's mentality with rebounds: he seemed reflexively not hit the boards, so as to position himself to watch the backcourt. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. But he's not a guy who's going consistently pull down a lot of misses. However, he does go after offensive rebounds very well, especially his own misses.

And now, the mega-question: is he ready for the NBA? Answer: I don't know. It's OBVIOUS he's too good for D-League competition. But while his 6/5 - 6/6 height is no problem as a D-League SF, he's too short to play SF in the NBA, IMO. He would have a MUCH harder time finishing against NBA PFs and Cs.

Tucker would be good on a team that ran plays to free him along the baseline so he can attack the basket. The "problem" for Tucker is, the "Suns system" pretty much requires SGs who can make 3s, to enable floor-spacing. Tucker is not your guy for that, unless his 3PT shooting really has gotten better.

I think he'd also be good to pair with a good-passing low post player. If Amare really was a "point-center", i could see Amare drawing double-teams, and then passing to a moving-without-the-ball Tucker for shots around the rim area. Ah, IF only... Now, Boris Diaw is a good low-post passer, but it seems like he goes to the low-post once in a blue moon.

Games like this enabled Tucker to get D-League Player of the Week honors. The announcers made the point that, Tucker should be given some credit. Rather than pout about being sent to the D-League, he came out to prove he was too good to play in the minor leagues - and he did prove his point. It remains to be seen if he can make the same point in the pros.

[misteradiant]

that was darned coherent of you, alan.

[AlanS]

D'Antoni on Boris Diaw's 2-of-9 shooting Wednesday: "He's trying to be aggressive. He's trying to do what we're asking him to do. So you can't fault him just because they don't go in. Now what? Tell him not to shoot 'em? As long as he stays aggressive, we're cool."

A couple of people on this board have said the same thing as D'Antoni. But I'm not feeling it.

To me, this is confusing activity with achievement. I can't give Boris credit for missing 7 of 9 relatively uncontested mid-range jump shots. Heck, I could do what Boris did... and not cost $9M per year.

We need activity AND productivity. Unless there's something good to be said about guys who shoot their team out of games.

Now, here's some aggressiveness I want to see. My two most memorable moments from the 05/06 playoffs versus the Mavs were:
• Boris wins Game 1 on a last second post-up shot over Jerry Stackhouse.
• Boris gets mad when he doesn't get a foul call on a rebound attempt. He responds by taking the ball to the hoop and dunking on Nowitzki's head.

I say, enough of shooting blanks frm the outside. How about getting high percentage shots or fouls by posting up or driving to the hoop? If he starts doing that, then I will give him credit for being aggressive.

[AlanS]

that was darned coherent of you, alan.

I'm trying to be coherent NOW, before we start hitting the spiked egg nog...

[AlanS]

Does it seem like Albuquerque only plays every once in a blue moon? I've been waiting to see DJ and it feels like forever.

You're right. The D-league plays nowhere near as many games per week as the NBA. This is the Thunderbird's December schedule:

Sat, 12/1
Fri, 12/7
Sat, 12/8
Fri, 12/14
Sat, 12/15
Sun, 12/23
Fri, 12/28
Sat, 12/29

So basically, Albuquerque is playing 1-2 games a weekend, and that's it. For those who want to see the full schedule, it's here:

http://www.nba.com/dleague/albuquerque/schedule/index.html

[ShelC]

Thanks for the recap on Tucker. Basically, that recap validates my fears about sending Tucker to the DLeague. Its not that hes not playing well, but hes not really working to adjust his game to make it more Suns-friendly. I dont doubt that the Big10 Player of the Year could kill in the DLeague. But hes not doing us or himself any good if hes just continuing to play his game. It wont help him when he gets up here and is asked to run and shoot and handle the ball a bit.

[AlanS]

Thanks for the recap on Tucker. Basically, that recap validates my fears about sending Tucker to the DLeague. Its not that hes not playing well, but hes not really working to adjust his game to make it more Suns-friendly. I dont doubt that the Big10 Player of the Year could kill in the DLeague. But hes not doing us or himself any good if hes just continuing to play his game. It wont help him when he gets up here and is asked to run and shoot and handle the ball a bit.

I share your concerns, ShelC. I wanted Tucker to go to the D-League, but for the expressed-purpose of working on his ball-handling and shooting, so he'd be better able to play guard. But instead of playing to Tuck's weaknesses, they've played to his strengths, which hasn't helped him.

But then, sitting on the bench and just watching isn't helping him either. This is a case where being drafted by a good team works to a rookie's detriment. If Tucker was on a re-building team, he'd certainly get some minutes. But on a team that wants to win it all, it can be tough to play a rookie and deal with his NBA learning curve. (Of course, if he had the talent of lottery pick, he might get a chance - but his talent level is not in that league.)

[BobbyDogg]

Someone said the Suns must be reading this board. NO WAY, are you kidding. Sometimes I have a hard time reading the posts. Most of the high volume posters, remember I said most, are ready to trade a player after one or two bad games. Then they want to blow up the whole organization if they aren't willing to get a particular player. Then others complain that Sarver is cheap and at the same time say ticket prices are too high.

This is the last place I would go for advice if I was part of the Suns organization. The main reason, no coherent thought process.

but it's the first place you go to get a sense of what suns fans in general are feeling. you want coherent from a hundred regular posters? half of us are drunk when we post here. that used to be a prerequisite for journalists everywhere. we are home of tradition!

seriously though, when a tv network gets an email, they consider it the opinion of no less than 1,000 of their viewers. you can disagree with the trade speculation that permeates this site all you want (god knows i do), but it's endemic of the town's opinions in general. if anything, we are more intelligent and thoughtful than the garbage that gets posted on azcentral.

and what about this "planet orange" deal the suns have set up? anybody go there? what do those people say?

my bet is we are the most coherent suns-related message board in the world and a few suns writers come here periodically to see what's up.

- jackoffasaurus rex


Right on the money, MR!

Some take EVERYTHING too seriously, including criticism of our favorite team. It's a Suns FORUM where fans come to discuss their team, good AND bad.

I think there is a lot of good thoughts that come out of this site. What I wish is that there be less bitching about other people bitching and more construtive criticims about the Suns organization.

And quite a bit more delusional ramblings caused by heavy drinking and lot's of emotion. Can't have enough of that...

[JediSkywalker]

D'Antoni on Boris Diaw's 2-of-9 shooting Wednesday: "He's trying to be aggressive. He's trying to do what we're asking him to do. So you can't fault him just because they don't go in. Now what? Tell him not to shoot 'em? As long as he stays aggressive, we're cool."

A couple of people on this board have said the same thing as D'Antoni. But I'm not feeling it.

To me, this is confusing activity with achievement. I can't give Boris credit for missing 7 of 9 relatively uncontested mid-range jump shots. Heck, I could do what Boris did... and not cost $9M per year.

We need activity AND productivity. Unless there's something good to be said about guys who shoot their team out of games.

Now, here's some aggressiveness I want to see. My two most memorable moments from the 05/06 playoffs versus the Mavs were:
• Boris wins Game 1 on a last second post-up shot over Jerry Stackhouse.
• Boris gets mad when he doesn't get a foul call on a rebound attempt. He responds by taking the ball to the hoop and dunking on Nowitzki's head.

I say, enough of shooting blanks frm the outside. How about getting high percentage shots or fouls by posting up or driving to the hoop? If he starts doing that, then I will give him credit for being aggressive.


I think what Dantoni is trying to say - if you keep trying, you eventually get there. Earlier Boris was not even trying to be aggressive. In the last 3 games he was definitely being aggressive. He had some success against Spurs (he stole the ball at the end, which was really big for the team), but he is going to have some up and downs until it becomes second nature to him. Now if you tell him not to be aggressive because he is missing the shots, it will be a total waste.

Although I am very disappointed in Boris, after watching 18 months of nonachievement, I do see a change in his approach. So I would give him a little more time. We may never see the Boris of 2005-2006 playoffs, but if he gets half way there, the Suns will be in a reasonably good shape

[ShelC]

You still have to take shots to be a threat. Hes being more aggressive philosophically on offense by taking the shots, but he could be more aggressive in the literal sense by taking the ball to the basket as he did against the Jazz. But as long as hes looking for his offense, its a start. If hes getting the ball and not even looking at the basket, youre basically playing 4on5 offensively and making it easier on the defense.

[sunsdotcom]

i wish dantoni would teach the suns to play better zone defense against san antonio or golden state.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-427/The-Playbook--Portland-Assistant-Coach-Dean-Demopoulos.html

it's solve our "amare can't play d" problem.

[Superbone]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.


These kinds of comments really bother me. These are NBA teams and anyone can beat any team on a given day. Have you not learned anything from the Minnesota and Miami games? I hope the Suns have even though their fans have not. If the Suns play the way they did in the 1st Q against Dallas and NOH, they will be in trouble even against the Raptors, and most certainly against the Lakers who are playing great this year (more as a team than ever before). The Suns better take both these games seriously.

Wow, if that bothers you...

Have I not learned anything? You're just not paying attention, Vash. The first "bust their ass" comment is D'Antoni's in regards to the Lakers after they tried to embarrass the Suns in our house. D'Antoni and the Suns will be out for revenge on Xmas day.

As far as the Raptors are concerned, yeah, I think we beat them in convincing fashion tonight just as we did on the road last time. They are coming off a back to back whereas we are well rested and starting to pick it up defensively. Also, I think our guys are pumped to be playing at home. Of course any team can win on any night. I'm not talking about any night. I'm talking about tonight, baby! Get off your high horse, Vash.

I hope you learned something tonight, Vash.

[Superbone]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.

It is a game after a two-day break. The Suns can and should win, but if they do it will NOT be a blowout.

We'll see...

I think we win by 10+ at least.

And X gets the square. Tell him what he's won, Johnny.

[darrkin]

All I want for Christmas is......

[TexSUN]

And X gets the square. Tell him what he's won, Johnny.

This one was pretty dead-on too:


i think we'll be seeing some banks and tucker vs. toronto.

Nice prediction, sdc!

[JediSkywalker]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.


These kinds of comments really bother me. These are NBA teams and anyone can beat any team on a given day. Have you not learned anything from the Minnesota and Miami games? I hope the Suns have even though their fans have not. If the Suns play the way they did in the 1st Q against Dallas and NOH, they will be in trouble even against the Raptors, and most certainly against the Lakers who are playing great this year (more as a team than ever before). The Suns better take both these games seriously.

Wow, if that bothers you...

Have I not learned anything? You're just not paying attention, Vash. The first "bust their ass" comment is D'Antoni's in regards to the Lakers after they tried to embarrass the Suns in our house. D'Antoni and the Suns will be out for revenge on Xmas day.

As far as the Raptors are concerned, yeah, I think we beat them in convincing fashion tonight just as we did on the road last time. They are coming off a back to back whereas we are well rested and starting to pick it up defensively. Also, I think our guys are pumped to be playing at home. Of course any team can win on any night. I'm not talking about any night. I'm talking about tonight, baby! Get off your high horse, Vash.

I hope you learned something tonight, Vash.

Same was true of the Miami team. They actually had a 6-game road trip and it was the last game for them. The Suns were playing at home, after resting for one day. It was expected to be an easy win, right? Never underestimate your opponent.

I still get the feeling that the Dallas game may have lifted their spirits overall, even though it was a loss. A comeback like that should build confidence.

Against the LAL the Suns will have the energy, no doubt. What worries me is the officiating and the crowd influencing the refs and the outcome. Plus the Lakers have most of their players healthy- unlike last year when they played many games without Walton, Odom- (not sure about Kobe being 100% but he will play hard) and that could pose a challenge. In a close game the refs and the crowd can change the outcome.

[JediSkywalker]

i wish dantoni would teach the suns to play better zone defense against san antonio or golden state.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-427/The-Playbook--Portland-Assistant-Coach-Dean-Demopoulos.html

it's solve our "amare can't play d" problem.

Portland has been unbelievable this season. After Oden went down to microfracture surgery, nobody expected them to do this well. They might make the playoffs and leave Utah in the dust. The western conference has been just crazy.

[AZSportsFan]

We are kicking ass in this one, need to get ready for Lakers on Christmas, thats gonna be playoff intense.

We're gonna "bust their ass". The Lakers, that is. I think we win tonight in convincing fashion.

It is a game after a two-day break. The Suns can and should win, but if they do it will NOT be a blowout.

We'll see...

I think we win by 10+ at least.

And X gets the square. Tell him what he's won, Johnny.

This was said about the Lakers game, not the Toronto game. But I did not make that clear after re-reading it. You win the "Poster of the Night" award. Your prize pack includes a CD full of Leanderisms and a D'Antoni scowl Halloween mask.... :)

[Nodack]

Diaw has been much more aggressive the last few games and I hope he continues with it. The boy has a lot of talent and we are paying him a lot of money. I think they are on the right track with him right now regardless of what his numbers say. I know many here think he is a worthless piece of crap that should never be allowed on the court again, but I think that is very short sighted. We are probably going to need Diaw to win a championship and it's up to the Diaw and the Suns to figure out the best way to utilize him. People can complain about him if they wish, but how many different ways can you say "you suck" before it becomes redundant.

[ShelC]

People can complain about him if they wish, but how many different ways can you say "you suck" before it becomes redundant.

Ask JWB...hes been on a roll lately.

[Mori_Chu]

Some interesting news around the league today. Speedy Claxton of the Hawks, Tim Thomas, and Manu Ginobili all sustained injuries in last night's games. Also, Kobe just became the youngest ballhog-- er, rapist-- er, player in NBA history to score 20,000 points, surpassing Wilt's record pace. Pretty crazy.

Is it me, or do both Kobe and KG look kind of old this season? I don't mean that their games are worse; just that their facial features have a more weary, wrinkled appearance to them.

[misteradiant]

Thanks for the recap on Tucker. Basically, that recap validates my fears about sending Tucker to the DLeague. Its not that hes not playing well, but hes not really working to adjust his game to make it more Suns-friendly. I dont doubt that the Big10 Player of the Year could kill in the DLeague. But hes not doing us or himself any good if hes just continuing to play his game. It wont help him when he gets up here and is asked to run and shoot and handle the ball a bit.


trade him now. he sucks. shelc says so. he was right about renaldo balkman, you know. those 3 points and 3 rebounds a game he gets makes me think of shawn marion. how about you?

[misteradiant]

Diaw has been much more aggressive the last few games and I hope he continues with it. The boy has a lot of talent and we are paying him a lot of money. I think they are on the right track with him right now regardless of what his numbers say. I know many here think he is a worthless piece of crap that should never be allowed on the court again, but I think that is very short sighted. We are probably going to need Diaw to win a championship and it's up to the Diaw and the Suns to figure out the best way to utilize him. People can complain about him if they wish, but how many different ways can you say "you suck" before it becomes redundant.

i can say the same thing in infinite ways, so there. hoping for diaw to be more than excuses, which is what the coaching staff seems to offer instead of tangible points, assists and rebounds, is like watching a dog humping a leg. it's funny, and in the end just annoying and sometimes downright embarassing.

nine milllion a year. 110,000 per game. don't know about you, but i'm embarassed.

see? infinite ways!

:-P

[ShelC]

trade him now. he sucks. shelc says so. he was right about renaldo balkman, you know. those 3 points and 3 rebounds a game he gets makes me think of shawn marion. how about you?

Yea...if Isiah the Great cant get anything out of Balkman, im sure hes useless.

And again, youre putting words in my mouth. I never said Tucker sucks. I was just stating that if hes going to the DLeague and continuing to play his game (ie. the game that doesnt translate to the pros), then whats the point of sending him down there? Might as well keep him up here and have him work with Weber on his shot and run in practice to unlearn everything hes used to doing.

The DLeague is a good idea in theory. But it needs polish in the worst way. The NBA has basically thrown a league together, gotten some decent players to play in it, and thats it. Theres no real affiliation to the NBA teams as far as coaches, front office personnel. Look at the NBDL front offices....all ticket sales reps and marketing people. No scouts, no player personnel guys, not even a real coaching staff most of the time. The Dleague is all about generating revenue.

The DLeague affiliates should be, in some way, affiliated with the pro teams. If you have 1 Dleague team for every 2 NBA teams, why not have similar NBA teams share a DLeague team. That way, you can incorporate a style and system similar to that of the NBA teams, such as the Mavs and Warriors. Have the NBA teams hire coaches to work for the DLeague team so theres some similiarity, continuity, and understanding of what needs to be accomplished with players that are sent there.

[misteradiant]

;) shel. you took that better than i thought you would.

i know. i said you said he sucks. you mentioned "fears" and that "hes not really working to adjust his game to make it more Suns-friendly." what then, do you think, would make his game more suns-friendly?

if anybody reminds me of shawn, it's tucker.

[ShelC]

what then, do you think, would make his game more suns-friendly?

Learning how to shoot, for one. His shot is just too flat to be effective from deep i think. I know he soht well in the DLeague, but hes going to have to get more arc and lift to get it over bigger, longer defenders he'll be seeing.

To be honest, im not sure Tucker even fits in here. I didnt like his game in college and still dont like it. He seems like much more of a halfcourt, set-it-up type of player working off of screens or posting up when he has a mismatch. I think he'd be a better fit for a team like SA, Detroit, maybe even Houston.

Tucker can score. Hes a gamer who needs minutes and the chance to really get into the game to get going. Im not sure thats what we like/need with this system. You need to be able to score quickly or shoot it well. We're not going to let a guy pound away looking for a crease in the defense to get into to get his shot off. i think thats more of tuckers style.

[misteradiant]

His shot is just too flat to be effective from deep i think. I know he soht well in the DLeague, but hes going to have to get more arc and lift to get it over bigger, longer defenders he'll be seeing.

sounds like shawn marion. are you sure you meant balkman and not tucker? 'cause everything you're saying was said about shawn. most of it can still be said and he seems to work well here. why not tucker?

sometimes shelc, i think you're just posting the first thing that comes to you, not what you've thought out.

[ShelC]

Whats the point of thinking....when you think, you stink. Right, Pitino?

Shawns shot isnt flat at all. His form is just terrible and doesnt allow him to be consistent. But getting arc on his shot has never been the issue. Nor has been shooting over bigger players been an issue because hes got good size and length for the 3spot and can get around and over most 4s.

But we've also never asked Shawn to be a jumpshooter. Hes more or less a garbage guy or relies on others to be set up. Occasionally he can work inside for that lil babyhook/flip shot thats pretty effective.

Tuckers problem is that hes probaby a 2guard here. Hes a bit on the small side, isnt all that quick laterally, his handles arent up to par and again, hes not a great shooter, especially from deep which is what we need to spread the floor.

Its just the feel. We can get away with Shawn at the 4 and deal with his shooting because he does so many other things, from guarding PGs to Cs, grabbing double-digit rebounds, blocking shots, getting deflections and steals. Tucker hasnt shown the ability to really guard his position(s) in the SLs and hasnt shown to be even an average rebounder. If he could do other things, you let the lack of shooting slide a bit. If he played bigger than he is, as shawn does everynight, then i'd say he could play here. But i think hes a college power player trapped in a 6-5 body.

[misteradiant]

Shawns shot isnt flat at all...

maybe i was not clear enough. i am comnparing shawn and tucker at the beginning of their nba careers, not shawn now. when he started, his shot was flat. even now, unless he's shooting a 3, it's flat. you can say it isn't all you want. doesn't make your skewed view of reality correct. my skewed view of reality is better.

:lol:

and are we asking tucker to be a jumpshooter? i know you are, but what about the suns? maybe he's just an athletic player around the hoop. that's what he's always been. i'm sure the men that work for the suns knew this when they drafted him.


Tucker hasnt shown the ability to really guard his position(s) in the SLs and hasnt shown to be even an average rebounder.

yeah. with all those minutes and opportunities he gets to show what he can do. good call, man. you know all about him.

[ShelC]

and are we asking tucker to be a jumpshooter? i know you are, but what about the suns? maybe he's just an athletic player around the hoop. that's what he's always been. i'm sure the men that work for the suns knew this when they drafted him.

These same men that have traded draft picks that were better than Tucker in previous years and even this year? The Suns drafted Tucker for the same reason they drafted Casey Jacobsen. Its politics. They took a good, young, hardworking, mature, successful college player even tho there were/are doubt about his transition to the league. It makes the Suns and the league look good when 4yr college players with prestigious honors are taken in the 1st round. Believe me, these things do happen.

and are we asking tucker to be a jumpshooter?...maybe he's just an athletic player around the hoop.

If youre a swing player on this team and youre not a reliable shooter, what are the odds you fit in? Its not Tuckers fault hes not a jumpshooter. We shouldnt be asking him to be a jumpshooter, so youre correct in that regard. But i have to question why we draft a guy that seemingly doesnt fit in. Its all opinion-based. With draft picks and most players in the league, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Barbs gets a free pass from MikeD everynight, but Banks is locked to the bench.

There are a ton of bigger, stronger, faster athletic players who play around the hoop. What makes Tucker stand out?

yeah. with all those minutes and opportunities he gets to show what he can do. good call, man. you know all about him.

The SLs arent an end-all be-all, but are a pretty good litmus test for younger players. Again, he couldnt rebound well in the SLs or the Dleague. What would make him a better rebounder in the NBA? He couldnt really lock down on lower-tier players this summer, could handle guarding a Kobe, Manu, Rip, or Crawford, Roy, KevMartin?

[Superbone]

I still get the feeling that the Dallas game may have lifted their spirits overall, even though it was a loss. A comeback like that should build confidence.

Against the LAL the Suns will have the energy, no doubt. What worries me is the officiating and the crowd influencing the refs and the outcome. Plus the Lakers have most of their players healthy- unlike last year when they played many games without Walton, Odom- (not sure about Kobe being 100% but he will play hard) and that could pose a challenge. In a close game the refs and the crowd can change the outcome.

I agree. I actually think the Lakers are tougher with a non-100% Kobe as he's more likely to be a team player.

[Superbone]

This was said about the Lakers game, not the Toronto game. But I did not make that clear after re-reading it. You win the "Poster of the Night" award. Your prize pack includes a CD full of Leanderisms and a D'Antoni scowl Halloween mask.... :)

D'oh!

[AlanS]

[1] A point of information: many (all?) D-League teams are affiliated with pro teams. The Albuquerque Thunderbirds are affiliated with the Suns and the 76ers - any guys sent to the D-Leagues from those 2 teams will go to the T-Birds.

[2] Regarding Tucker: I think the main reason he went so late in the 1st round was the concern that he is an NBA tweener - too small to be effective as an NBA SF, but not skilled enough (with his shooting and handling) to be an NBA SG. I have his entire pre-draft profile from NBADraft.net below. Having seen Tucker play, I think that is a legit concern. To really be effective as a pro, I think Tucker needs to work on his shooting and ball-handling. Better shooting is especially vital if he is to play SG with Suns, where guards are just about required to be able to hit the long ball.

[3] Myself, I don't have a problem with drafting Tucker even though it might take a year or so before he's ready to contribute. One guy I point to a lot in this regard is JJ. His first two years, he was consistently bad or just plain inconsistent. Now he's an All-Star. More relevant examples might be Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen, who developed a 3PT shot along with good defensive reputations as a ticket to the NBA.

A question I've asked several times with respect to the Suns' rookies is, will the fans be patient? Will they realize Tuck and Straw need to spend a year or two or three to get their games together (like JJ, LB, Bell, Bowen) or will they incessantly complain about the rooks not getting minutes right now? I just think people need to manage their expectations.

[AlanS]

Alando Tucker's pre-draft profile from NBADraft.net:

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/alandotucker.html

NBA Comparison: Josh Howard

Strengths: Possesses an NBA ready body that is strong enough to absorb contact in the lane and finish … Has (college) three point range on his jump shot … Back to the basket skills are highly developed … Owns a nice turnaround jumper … Excellent finisher who is blessed with cat like body control to get off even the most difficult shots in traffic … Tough minded player who enjoys physical play and will not back down from a challenge … Unselfish player with the willingness to set-up open teammates … Physically he has all the tools needed to be a quality defender: quickness, good hands, long arms and intelligence … Crafty scorer who uses a number of fakes and his leaping ability to create scoring opportunities for himself … Solid rebounder due to his athleticism and body strength … Smooth player on the floor who lets the game come to him rarely forcing things … Coachable player with a great work ethic to improve … Does a great job of creating contact to draw fouls … Excellent finisher in transition where he will finish with flair … Emerging as a player who understands how to effectively move without the ball …

Weaknesses: Defensively Tucker could stand to improve on his intensity … Doesn’t seem to possess great anticipation skills nor the awareness to play the passing lanes … Ball handling, while improved, still isn’t great … Perimeter shooting remains prone to streakiness … Not a great shooter coming off screens … Solid three point shooter when his feet are set but struggles to hit with regularity due in part to his slow release … Despite being a great athlete, Tucker rarely explodes off the dribble due to his average first step … Doesn’t always use the mid-range jumper to his advantage, often he’ll slash to the basket or shoot the three … From a position standpoint there is concern about what position he will play in the NBA … While blessed with athleticism, he may struggle to shoot consistently enough to play shooting guard and his height might be a detriment at small forward … While his game has progressed considerably over the past 5 years, one has to wonder how much more he can improve … Below average free throw shooting limits his ability to take full advantage of the contact he creates …

> PS: The comparison with Josh Howard is suspect, to me. Howard is much quicker/faster than Tucker.

> If you follow the above link, there is additional text on Tucker's scouting report that I didn't post here.

[Shabazz]

[1] A point of information: many (all?) D-League teams are affiliated with pro teams. The Albuquerque Thunderbirds are affiliated with the Suns and the 76ers - any guys sent to the D-Leagues from those 2 teams will go to the T-Birds.

[2] Regarding Tucker: I think the main reason he went so late in the 1st round was the concern that he is an NBA tweener - too small to be effective as an NBA SF, but not skilled enough (with his shooting and handling) to be an NBA SG. I have his entire pre-draft profile from NBADraft.net below. Having seen Tucker play, I think that is a legit concern. To really be effective as a pro, I think Tucker needs to work on his shooting and ball-handling. Better shooting is especially vital if he is to play SG with Suns, where guards are just about required to be able to hit the long ball.

[3] Myself, I don't have a problem with drafting Tucker even though it might take a year or so before he's ready to contribute. One guy I point to a lot in this regard is JJ. His first two years, he was consistently bad or just plain inconsistent. Now he's an All-Star. More relevant examples might be Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen, who developed a 3PT shot along with good defensive reputations as a ticket to the NBA.

A question I've asked several times with respect to the Suns' rookies is, will the fans be patient? Will they realize Tuck and Straw need to spend a year or two or three to get their games together (like JJ, LB, Bell, Bowen) or will they incessantly complain about the rooks not getting minutes right now? I just think people need to manage their expectations.

Amen. There are plenty of Rookies out there picked before Tucker and Straw who are barely getting off the bench for bad to mediocre teams. Guys like Conley, Brandan and Julian Wright, Thaddeus Young, Belinelli, Crittenton, Dudley, Chandler and Almond were all picked ahead of Tucker and have barely sniffed the court. Most of the guys picked ahead of Straw in the 2nd round are already out of the league.

In fact the list of rookies contributing to teams in the playoff picture right now is a short one: Glen Davis, Sean Williams, Al Horford and Jamario Moon (who was undrafted).

I do agree that Tucker and Straw and talented and should get a shot in the rotation and a chance to show if they belong. But for all the proclamations that these guys will be big contributors, I think a little perspective is needed.

[SwingMan]

No lie about Conley. What the hell's his story anyways?

[JustWinBaby]

No lie about Conley. What the hell's his story anyways?

He has been hurt, I believe. At one point early on he was doing pretty well.

Trying to run "speed ball" in memphis with stoudamire at the controls has to be tough for Ivaroni.

Talk about bad contracts Stoudamires is near the top IMO.

[INFORMER]

A question I've asked several times with respect to the Suns' rookies is, will the fans be patient? Will they realize Tuck and Straw need to spend a year or two or three to get their games together (like JJ, LB, Bell, Bowen) or will they incessantly complain about the rooks not getting minutes right now? I just think people need to manage their expectations.

Uh, actually the Suns (Kerr) said they would be contributors.

[Mori_Chu]

In fact the list of rookies contributing to teams in the playoff picture right now is a short one: Glen Davis, Sean Williams, Al Horford and Jamario Moon (who was undrafted).

What about that Brandon Rush guy on Dallas? Luis Scola on the Rockets? That Azueubuke guy on the Warriors?

[sunsdotcom]

Brandon bass.

our old boy james jones is leading the league in 3pt field goal percentage at 53.1%. overall, his shooting is 52.3%.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3752

[Phoenix219]

If we'd kept him, would we ahve had room for him in rotation with Grant?

Heres one: James Jones or Boris Diaw?

[Phoenix219]

I hope James Jones doesn't end up being one of those huge regrets we seem to like collecting.

There was NOTHING to show that James Jones was going to show any more signs of consistancy or improvement with us....

[SwingMan]

Jesus, it's like talking to a damn rock.

Folks, once AGAIN, wait 'till Jones performs like this past one month in a row before marking him the 2nd coming of Dale Davis gone through the cracks. He did this twice for both seasons he was here - how did that turn out, hmm?

Got tweak? :roll:

[AlanS]

A question I've asked several times with respect to the Suns' rookies is, will the fans be patient?

Uh, actually the Suns (Kerr) said they would be contributors.

Well, who are you gonna believe... me or him? :wink:



In fact the list of rookies contributing to teams in the playoff picture right now is a short one: Glen Davis, Sean Williams, Al Horford and Jamario Moon (who was undrafted).

What about that Brandon Rush guy on Dallas? Luis Scola on the Rockets? That Azueubuke guy on the Warriors?

It's wrong to just to just make a blanket statement that rookies should or should not be playing. Each player is different, each team is different.

For example, Al Horford was a #3 pick. If the Suns had drafted him, I have no doubt he'd be in the rotation. But Tucker and Strawberry are not in the same class talent-wise as Horord.

And it's not like all of those guys just started playing from day 1 after they were drafted. Jam Moon is a rookie, but he's 27, and has had stints in the minor leagues to work on his game. Brandon Bass is actually a 3rd-year NBA player; he was a second-round pick of New Orleans in 2005. Scola is a high quality Euro vet.

Bottom line, it's not about "rookies can and do contribute" in a general sense. It's about, what can this rookie do for this team at this point in time?

[JediSkywalker]

A question I've asked several times with respect to the Suns' rookies is, will the fans be patient? Will they realize Tuck and Straw need to spend a year or two or three to get their games together (like JJ, LB, Bell, Bowen) or will they incessantly complain about the rooks not getting minutes right now? I just think people need to manage their expectations.

Uh, actually the Suns (Kerr) said they would be contributors.

Didn't Kerr say something like that about Sean Marks too?:wink:

[Shabazz]

In fact the list of rookies contributing to teams in the playoff picture right now is a short one: Glen Davis, Sean Williams, Al Horford and Jamario Moon (who was undrafted).

What about that Brandon Rush guy on Dallas? Luis Scola on the Rockets? That Azueubuke guy on the Warriors?

Rockets aren't in the playoff picture right now.

Azubuike (2nd year) and Bass (3rd) aren't rookies.


It's wrong to just to just make a blanket statement that rookies should or should not be playing. Each player is different, each team is different.

For example, Al Horford was a #3 pick. If the Suns had drafted him, I have no doubt he'd be in the rotation. But Tucker and Strawberry are not in the same class talent-wise as Horord.

And it's not like all of those guys just started playing from day 1 after they were drafted. Jam Moon is a rookie, but he's 27, and has had stints in the minor leagues to work on his game. Brandon Bass is actually a 3rd-year NBA player; he was a second-round pick of New Orleans in 2005. Scola is a high quality Euro vet.

Bottom line, it's not about "rookies can and do contribute" in a general sense. It's about, what can this rookie do for this team at this point in time?

Agree with everything you say. I really do think both Tucker and DJ could be assets on the court at some point this season, I'm just preaching a little perspective to everyone yelling at coach that these guys should be getting 10-15 minutes a game. Neither of these guys is the same caliber as Horford. They're in the same boat as nearly every rookie playing on a playoff team in the L.

Both rookies showed flashes in the summer league. But take a look at Belinelli on GS if you want to see how much summer league actually means. People were calling him the second coming of Drazen Petrovic this summer and he's currently shooting 23% in garbage time.

I also think that the coaches have a better idea of what our rooks can contribute to the team than we do. We don't see these guys in practice every day. If they were tearing it up in practice (how Jamario Moon got his PT), I'm pretty sure they'd have gotten at least a shot in the rotation by now. My impression of both guys from the limited time they've had is that they're both still pretty green.

Bottom line: I have no issues with how much PT the rookies have had so far, provided that if they are earning their shot in practice, they get it at some point. I'd much rather we try to work Banks into the rotation before Tucker or Straw. At the very least so we can generate ANY sort of trade value for him.

[INFORMER]

I hope James Jones doesn't end up being one of those huge regrets we seem to like collecting.

How so? He wasn't producing, and was given every chance to. If the Suns kept him, he'd still be giving them nothing.

[ShelC]

James Jones isnt a catch and shoot player. Hes better shooting on the move or off screens I think. I have to watch a blazers game to see how theyre using him, but he never seemed comfortable spotting up and waiting for a pass and then shooting. But when he would dribble in and shoot off balance, he looked more confident IMO.

[AlanS]

I don't think this has been posted. Since we've been talking about the rooks, here are some brief words from Tucker on his D-League experience:

http://browniebytes.freedomblogging.com/2007/12/18/tucker-returns-more-confident/

Tucker returns more confident
December 18th, 2007 | posted by Jerry Brown (East Valley Tribune)

Monday was a good day for Alando Tucker. As he was being named D-League Performer of the Week after averaging 36.5 points in two games with the Albuquerque Thunderbirds, he was recalled by the Suns just in time for the big matchup with the Spurs. (Alan's Edit: Tucker played 5 D-league games. In those games, he averaged 28.2 pts and 7.0 rebs.)

With Tucker back, the Suns sent guard DJ Strawberry to replace Tucker in Albuquerque, where he will play the point and get plenty of playing time – which Tucker thoroughly enjoyed during his stint.

“It was great to get a chance to play and show I can do some positive things,” said Tucker, who had 40 points and eight rebounds on Friday against Bakersfield and came back with 32 points and five boards Saturday against Anaheim. Tucker shot 52 percent from the field and made six of his 10 3-pointers.

“We don’t have intense practices here, trying to save guys’ legs, so it was good for me to get back in game situations and work on my game. I played the wing and I was really trying to handle the ball more, getting other guys involved.”

Tucker said it was tough “to break in my lungs” at Albuquerque’s altitude, but said he enjoyed his time rooming with 33-year-old Darvin Ham, who won a ring with the Detroit Pistons in 2004. - (Hmmm... they have roommates in the D-League?)

“But I was watching (the Suns) all the time and part of me wanted to be here supporting the guys. They really welcomed me back, which was nice.”

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/e8/fullj.51452cb33b6fdd3a473cc9a58dd3c9e8/51452cb33b6fdd3a473cc9a58dd3c9e8-getty-78107663lm009_14ers_tbirds.jpg

[ShelC]

Glad to hear he knows what he needs to work on. I never doubted that we went him down there just to play. Let him stay sharp, work on his skills in games, etc.

[JackArse]

are they using that shitty ball in the d league?

[scosuns]

Yeah. Its the one that didn't quite work out in the NBA. No wonder Alando looks like hes in pain. And that stupid blue trim. It looks ugly.