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[SwingMan]

Mavericks too much for Suns (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1219sunsgame.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/pics/1220sunscov.jpg
Amare Stoudemire looks for room against Josh Howard on Wednesday night.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 19, 2007 10:26 PM

DALLAS - There was no pair of overtimes like the Suns' last visit here. Amaré Stoudemire could not get close to the 41 points he had last time. And Steve Nash could not correct the wrongs again, ending Wednesday's 108-105 loss to Dallas with an air-ball three-point try.

Phoenix failed to take over the Western Conference's best record Wednesday by again being porous defensively and frail offensively without Nash. A 37-point Dallas first quarter, 17-point second-quarter hole and a five-minute second-half drought with one basket made the Suns' life difficult.

The West's big three - San Antonio, Phoenix and Dallas - each have 18 victories after Phoenix's 1-2 trip.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

Phoenix trailed 98-86 before making a move in the final five minutes by scoring on every trip except for two Nash turnovers - a bad alley-oop pass and a dribble strip on Nash by Dallas' Devin Harris - and the game-ending air ball.

Stoudemire, scoring 14 in the fourth quarter, cut Dallas' lead to 106-105 with a three-point play on a follow with 8.5 seconds left. After two Dirk Nowitzki free throws, Nash pumped and moved left for a clean look at a three to tie but a clutch shot fell shy of the rim for the second time this trip. Shawn Marion air-balled a go-ahead shot late in the loss at New Orleans on Saturday.

"We can't put him in a position to save us here every time," Suns guard Raja Bell said. "These are games that if we come out and do what we're supposed to do early, we should win these games. We have to find a way to have that energy and defensive intensity from the beginning."

Dallas' Nowitzki scored a game-high 31 points, and Stoudemire led Phoenix with 25 despite going 4 for 13 in the first three quarters.

The Suns coaches preach to their players that their best defense is their offense. That came to fruition in the first half, when Phoenix had to escape from a 17-point hole with an offense that waited a long time to get going.

In the first quarter, the Suns scored in transition or seemingly not at all. They were being battered on the boards, losing on 11 of the first 15 missed-shot battles. Nash and Marion each had eight points and the rest of the team scored four with Stoudemire going 0 for 4 before he exited following his second foul after 8 1/2 minutes.

It got worse for Phoenix after Stoudemire left and with Nash and Marion exiting a minute later. Dallas closed the first quarter on an 11-0 run to lead 37-20.

Phoenix did not shoot its first free throw until Stoudemire made his first basket in the 18th minute. The Suns then began to click and cut into Dallas' biggest lead, 51-34, with a 20-7 half-closing run.

"It sets the tone," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said of the Suns' offense before the game. "It wears them down. If you've got to come down and score every time because we're scoring every time, that puts a lot of pressure on those shots and that helps defensively and the legs having to run back all the time."

Despite Grant Hill's work on Josh Howard and Marion's defense against Nowitzki, the Suns could not take the lead in the third quarter, although they did reduce the deficit to 80-77 before their offensive drought. D'Antoni still came away pleased with how his team battled.

"(The Mavericks) were the aggressors at the first of the game and then we picked it up," D'Antoni said. "This is December. It's just one game. I'm pretty pleased with the toughness we demonstrated, especially in the last three quarters."

Report

Cheers

Amaré Stoudemire took awhile to warm up, but Steve Nash and Shawn Marion had stellar double-doubles.

Jeers

You can't win a game in the first quarter but you can sure lose one by giving up 37 points and not scoring for the final 3 1/2 minutes.

Player of the game

Marion did a nice job defensively, but Dallas' Dirk Nowitzki is so good he scored 31 points anyway.

View from press row

It is amazing how Shawn Marion can have a 15-point first half with only one trip to the free-throw line and one shot that was more than 2 feet Wednesday. Between Steve Nash deftly finding him with passes and Marion proving too quick for Dallas, Marion had three dunks and four layups (he also missed two) in a first half while spending a lot of energy defending MVP Dirk Nowitzki.

- Paul Coro

[fixxxer]

Terrible first quarter. Good effort from the (non-Doris) Suns thereafter. If we meet the Mavs in the playoffs, methinks we decimate them. And not in the "shooting Dirk in the head and letting the others to live another day" sense either.

I'll take this particular loss.

Says NBA analyst and professional orphan, Oliver Twist: May we have s'more Brian Skinner please, Guv'nor?

[Spanky]

Doris is probably getting her black latex pants ready for The Pink Taco.

[Dustbuster]

Just want to add a positive I took away from last night: I though Marion did a great job on Dirk when he was on him. I felt like on every possession there was a chance of Marion poking it away from Dirk.

Boris seemed to be trying last night, but his shot was terrible. He never has really done much going hard to the hoop this season. At first it was the ankles, but what's the issue now? Are the ankles still not right, or is that not on his mind anymore?

I actually thought that the Suns might pull it off late last night, but throughout that fourth quarter we were getting HAMMERED on the offensive glass. There was on sequence when the Mavs got 4 CRACKS at it and finally got the hoop. There isn't a person on the Suns squad that seems capable of defending the defensive glass when teams are aggressive in going after the offensive board.

I have to say: I'm not confident trying to go to war in the playoffs with this squad just as it stands. What happens right now if there is an injury to one of the starters (oh, like, say, Raja?). If this was the playoffs, we might try to add another guy to rotation for one game, but he probably wouldn't look good because he hasn't played all year, so Mike would panic, and we would be playing seven guys. Except Skinner would still only get about 17 minutes, and instead we would be getting 40 minute games from Nash, Hill, and Barbosa.

They say history repeats itself - well, I can see it coming!

[Dustbuster]

BTW, I do think the Suns are the better team than the Mavs. The Mavs still seem to be a little brittle around the edges, and I think under pressure they will crack just like they did against GS. I think the Lakers could tear them up in the playoffs, as could GS.

With the parity in the West this year, I don't see the first round being particularly easy for anyone. Everyone is probably going to face a pretty good team in the first round.

[Dustbuster]

One last thing: despite the last moment miss, Nash was amazing last night. He certainly gave the Mavs fans one more reason to regret him leaving. According to Cuban, Nash should have had one foot in the grave by now, and instead, there he was roasting them for 21 and 18!!!

We have gotten spoiled. Any other PG and we would be raving over 18 assists. Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see one comment about in 12 pages of posts. He's been getting assists in that range pretty regularly, but that is still an incredible achievement. If our second unit had been able to score we could have really had a solid win there last night. We just couldn't execute without him last night.

[ShelC]

Giricek got into it with Sloan last night and was sent to the lockerroom during the game. Hes been unhappy with his role in Utah for a while and this may be the straw that breaks the camels back. I think we should definitely look into acquiring him. On paper, he seems to fit the mold of 2/3 we want. Come off the bench, shoot the 3, keep the ball moving and just play basketball. On top of that, hes 4mil off the books after this season. Could it be a JJax or TT type of acquisition? He and Banks works straight up, tho i'd bet Utah would hang up the phone as soon as they hear "Mar...". They wouldnt do it, as Banks probably doesnt fit their system and hes still got 3 1/2 more years on his deal. Then again, he seems to be more of a halfcourt guard and could be a pressing defender that Sloan could use. Even so, the contract is a killer. We have money from our trade exceptions, the JR and KT trades, but we'd be adding 4mil (8overall) to the payroll without giving up salary.

Not sure what else we would be able to do, but Giricek could help big time i think, especially with Rajas health taking a hit this year.

[Billyjoejimbob]

If our second unit had been able to score we could have really had a solid win there last night. We just couldn't execute without him last night.

I don't think this falls completely on the 2nd unit. If the first unit would have played a lick of defense in the first quarter the game would have been a lot closer when the 2nd unit came in and the problems with the 2nd unit wouldn't have been so glaring.

[Billyjoejimbob]

I think Banks would fit Utah's system. He is very similar to their starting point guard, although not as good, but his style is similar. They still probably wouldn't do it though.

[Wormwood]

Are there any pass first PG's available out there? Jared Jordan? Sergio Rodriguez? We talk about big men so much, we forget how badly the offense stumbles without Nash running the offense. I'd at least like to see what happpens using a pass fist guy, since we've never had one in the Nash era.

Giricek would be an insurance policy on Bell, but geez, isn't Tucker one already? DJ? DJ was just sent down to the D-league, so I doubt we'll bring him right back up.

On a D-league side note, there this guy Rod Benson, who's a a 6-10 225 rebounding machine. He's blowing the league away in rebounding and effeciency. Is he under contract with any NBA teams? Is anyone interested in giving him a look to help with our rebounding / Doris problems?

[ShelC]

Are there any pass first PG's available out there? Jared Jordan? Sergio Rodriguez? We talk about big men so much, we forget how badly the offense stumbles without Nash running the offense. I'd at least like to see what happpens using a pass fist guy, since we've never had one in the Nash era.

Giricek would be an insurance policy on Bell, but geez, isn't Tucker one already? DJ? DJ was just sent down to the D-league, so I doubt we'll bring him right back up.

Sergio would be truly ideal IMO. Hes still a bit raw and unpolished, but would flourish here with a longer leash then hes getting in Portland.

Tucker and DJ wont contribute much, if at all, this year im betting. And neither are the kind of shooter we need to spread the floor. That was my biggest problem with our draft this year. We targeted young professional, mature guys, but not ones that really fit our system. And while they were older with more experience, theyre still raw and need polishing for the NBA game. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but we probably wouldve been better served keeping the 24th and taking a guy like Morris Almond or keeping RudyF, who at least have reputations of being shooters.

[Wormwood]

Here's more on Rod Benson. With Doris being as bad as he is, and this 23 year old tearing it up in a huge way in the D-league, I'd say we really should take a look.

http://www.netsdaily.com/blog/?cat=28

[Superbone]

One last thing: despite the last moment miss, Nash was amazing last night. He certainly gave the Mavs fans one more reason to regret him leaving. According to Cuban, Nash should have had one foot in the grave by now, and instead, there he was roasting them for 21 and 18!!!

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that Nash was fouled on that late possession drive to the basket where the ball was "knocked" loose. The replay clearly showed Harris raking his hand across Nash's arm causing him to lose the ball.

[JustWinBaby]

Here's more on Rod Benson. With Doris being as bad as he is, and this 23 year old tearing it up in a huge way in the D-league, I'd say we really should take a look.

http://www.netsdaily.com/blog/?cat=28

He sounds real interesting.

However where does he get his minutes?

How do you play him and sit Skinner?

I think most of us would be up to trying this Skinner and Benson as a two headed monster at the 5 while moving Amare to the 4 and Shawn to the three for most of the game except maybe winning time. However D'Antoni would never allow it. He has to play Boris to justify his $45 Million contract.

Until Boris is gone, nothing much is going to change.

Unfortunately

[ShelC]

Boris is never leaving. He'll be a Sun for life and inducted into the Ring of Honor.

[JustWinBaby]

Boris is never leaving. He'll be a Sun for life and inducted into the Ring of Honor.

Or tied to a post outside of US Airways Center for a public stoning party.

[Maldonado316]

Here's more on Rod Benson. With Doris being as bad as he is, and this 23 year old tearing it up in a huge way in the D-league, I'd say we really should take a look.

http://www.netsdaily.com/blog/?cat=28

Boom Got The Tho!

Benson is real nice, remember him at Cal plus his blog is hilarious (toomuchrodbenson.com) his myspace stories are LMAO.

He was teammates with Darius Rice in the D-league last year who a few of us kicked around the idea of the Suns looking at. I think he was with the Nets and was looking like he would make the roster but it didn't work out. I second taking a flyer on Benson.

[Wormwood]

When you say taking a flyer, do you mean take a look at, or don't bother looking Maldonado?

[scosuns]

Maybe if D'Antoni tried playing Banks with Barbosa, instead of having Barbosa be a PG(Which he is not), then we might be able to see some better results. But, having Leandro run the show is just a no. We have to depend on shots and Grant Hill. There are no pick and rolls and no slashing to the room. BARBOSA IS NOT A POINT GUARD.

Thank you :]

[Dustbuster]

Maybe if D'Antoni tried playing Banks with Barbosa, instead of having Barbosa be a PG(Which he is not), then we might be able to see some better results. But, having Leandro run the show is just a no. We have to depend on shots and Grant Hill. There are no pick and rolls and no slashing to the room. BARBOSA IS NOT A POINT GUARD.

Thank you :]



The problem with that tandem is that both of them tend to be ballstoppers. They don't compliment each other, leave us very small on defense, and neither of them can feed other scorers. They might take turns putting up shots, but that is about as far as it goes.

[JustWinBaby]

Banks has the shortest leash in history.

In the short periods of playing time he has been given this year it has appeared that he in fact improved his jump shot and has kept the ball moving.

[scosuns]

Maybe Banks did something else to keep him on the bench. I don't know. But, I don't think that Barbosa should be running the show. Our second unit is usually where the other teams understandably get on runs and get back into or get ahead further in games.

I'm not saying that Banks is the answer on point guard. But, I don't think he'll put up 18 shots in a game because A)He'll be right back on the bench, and B)He wont want to screw up any chance he has been given.

[WestCoastBias]

You guys are delusional if you think our front office will make any more signings even for the minimum for a D league guy.

The only changes we will make will be via trade and I doubt that will happen. This is our team for the year.

[DrSublime]

12Bill WalkerKansas State
Birthday:10/9/1987NBA Postion:SG/SFClass:FreshmanHt:6-6Wt:220College Team:Kansas StateHometown:Huntington, WVHigh School:North College Hill
2007 Statistics
977977777977
Overall
90Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G33_XkeVS8
NBA Comparison: Vince Carter
Strengths: An absolutely jaw dropping, electrifying dunker capable of getting air like the greatest dunkers of all time, Jordan, Dominique, Vince Carter, Josh Smith etc. ... His leg strength and explosiveness is off the charts ... His skill level is still catching up, but he has shown tremendous progress over the past year ... Improvements have been seen in shooting, feel for the game, as well as creating offense off the dribble ... Over powers opponents with his body strength, and it will only get better as he's just a 18 year old pup ... Has a killer instinct, with a real nasty side to his personality. Has no problem dominating inferior competition, competes hard ... His upside is incredible, but for now he's a superstar athlete developing into a quality basketball player ...

Weaknesses: Can get away with using his athleticism to dominate on the high school level, but he's also working hard on his skill set and it's showing positive results ... A little stuck in between positions as a 6-5 small forward, but can become a shooting guard with work on his skills ... Has a bit of a temper, which can get the best of him at times ... Needs maturity and composure ... Has very thick legs, and while he is quick, he lacks some of the quickness in his first step that many thinner wing players posses ... Despite his aggressiveness and ability to tap into a nasty side, he also can coast at times ... He must learn to develop better work habits and stay focused to maximize his abilities ... His jumpshot off the dribble is a work in progress ... Has had some knee tendenitis issues over his high school career, but it doesn't appear to be a lingering problem ... Had some off court issues (fighting with a classmate) along with OJ Mayo in his junior year ...

Notes: Was a childhood friend and high school teammate of more heralded prospect OJ Mayo. Declared ineligible for the 06-07 season in Ohio high school basketball opening the door to be in the 2007 NBA draft. [Link]
Aran Smith - 7/10/2006

i REALLY want the suns to draft this kid if they dont get a top 10 pick

[Shabazz]

RE Bill Walker: Not sure if you noticed but that scouting report was written in '06. He's since suffered his second major knee injury and is working his way back this season. Nice player, but pass on the shoddy knees.

RE Rod Benson: I'm a big fan. I mentioned we should look at him about a week ago. He seems like the kind of high energy/volume rebounding guy that D'Antoni would have no choice but to play. I could see him taking some more of Boris' minutes.

[Mori_Chu]

Did they say yet how bad Raja's injury is, or how long he'll be out?

[misteradiant]

I actually thought that the Suns might pull it off late last night, but throughout that fourth quarter we were getting HAMMERED on the offensive glass. There was on sequence when the Mavs got 4 CRACKS at it and finally got the hoop. There isn't a person on the Suns squad that seems capable of defending the defensive glass when teams are aggressive in going after the offensive board.

i screamed so hard after that series that i accidentally spit all over my television. it was the worst defensive moment the suns have had all year. i was sickened. that was when i changed the channel for a few minutes.


I'm not confident trying to go to war in the playoffs with this squad just as it stands. What happens right now if there is an injury to one of the starters (oh, like, say, Raja?). If this was the playoffs, we might try to add another guy to rotation for one game, but he probably wouldn't look good because he hasn't played all year, so Mike would panic, and we would be playing seven guys. Except Skinner would still only get about 17 minutes, and instead we would be getting 40 minute games from Nash, Hill, and Barbosa.

yes, it would be nice if at least banks was getting 10 to 15 a game and nicer if coach played tucker and dj early in games we start of slow to give us youthful exuberance and athleticism.

[misteradiant]

We have gotten spoiled. Any other PG and we would be raving over 18 assists. Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see one comment about in 12 pages of posts.

i posted about his 18 like they were a good thing. so yes, you missed it.

;)

[misteradiant]

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that Nash was fouled on that late possession drive to the basket where the ball was "knocked" loose. The replay clearly showed Harris raking his hand across Nash's arm causing him to lose the ball.

yes! how could i forget that non-call! that was the worst of the night and informer, you can't roll your eyes at that. the refs gave that game to the mavs. i do not know if that crap is intentional, but we was screwed.

and amare needs to just bring it to start every game.

[misteradiant]

You guys are delusional if you think our front office will make any more signings even for the minimum for a D league guy.

The only changes we will make will be via trade and I doubt that will happen. This is our team for the year.

amen.

[scosuns]

I don't know if the refs gave that game to the Mavs. It looked like both teams were equally getting screwed. But, the officiating overall was just bad.

[Shabazz]

I think Nash plays better against Dallas than any one player in the NBA plays against a particular opponent. The guy could be playing with two dislocated shoulders and he'd still get 20/10 on them.

[INFORMER]

I don't know if the refs gave that game to the Mavs. It looked like both teams were equally getting screwed. But, the officiating overall was just bad.

The refs had their good and bad moments. There were a couple of calls that they got right that they initially got wrong.

As far as the Suns go, I think there were some missed/bad calls, but not enough to affect the outcome of the game.

BTW- When Nash lost the ball out of bounce, there was some contact, but letting it go didn't bother me.

[INFORMER]

i REALLY want the suns to draft this kid if they dont get a top 10 pick

Don't suck me into draft talk. DON'T DO IT. I've already been sneaking visits to nbadraft.net, bookmarking player pages. Why oh why am I setting myself up for heartbreak again? WHY?!?!

Don't be surprised if you see some names in my sig by the weekend. Sigh.

[DrSublime]

Bill Walker would be SO perfect on this team.... he's right now VC light... he could develope into a JJ type of player, with a little more dunks and a little less 3 pointers

[INFORMER]

Bill Walker isn't even shooting 40% from the field. Don't take that cake out of the oven until it has cooked all the way through.

[Nodack]

Nice game last night. Entertaining and we saw some good things. Amare was more aggressive than usual. Both teams shot the ball well. The refs called it about even I thought and Nash had a wide open three to tie it, so if it goes in we might be talking about what a great game it was.

I think the one thing that hurts us the most right now is rebounding.


I didn't hear anything about Raja's knee, I thought they said he twisted his ankle last night.

[JediSkywalker]

One last thing: despite the last moment miss, Nash was amazing last night. He certainly gave the Mavs fans one more reason to regret him leaving. According to Cuban, Nash should have had one foot in the grave by now, and instead, there he was roasting them for 21 and 18!!!

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that Nash was fouled on that late possession drive to the basket where the ball was "knocked" loose. The replay clearly showed Harris raking his hand across Nash's arm causing him to lose the ball.


The officiating was terrible last night, but what else do you expect when you play in Dallas? It will be worse in LA(L).

[JediSkywalker]

I think Nash plays better against Dallas than any one player in the NBA plays against a particular opponent. The guy could be playing with two dislocated shoulders and he'd still get 20/10 on them.


Agreed. Last few games he had really struggled with his shooting, but as soon as he stepped on the court in Dallas, his shots started falling. I wish that last 3-pointer had gone in the basket though.

[scosuns]

Yeah. I'm not looking forward to watching them at the Staples Center. Lets beat their asses their. Por favor.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

We will never win a Championship playing this style of basketball..Amare is not a center..Kerr get him some help in the paint..If we don't win it this year changes must be made and that we should fire D'Antoni

[Phoenix219]

I wonder how Coach D would have done with some of the older Small Ball Suns teams.

I drool at the thought of the '98 team running this teams offense. It could have been siiiiiiiick.

He would have run Dice at Center, Uncle Cliffy at PF ala Marion, Chapman as a 3, with KJ a passing 2 guard, Kidd running point (rebounding to fuel the break no less), with a true point guard at the backup. I don't hate Coach D, and can only dream...

(that was one of my favorite Suns teams of all time, so give me a moment to reflect.. hehe)

[sunsdotcom]

Bill Walker would be SO perfect on this team.... he's right now VC light... he could develope into a JJ type of player, with a little more dunks and a little less 3 pointers

beasley, beasley, BEASLEY! :mrgreen:

[JackArse]

what do you think about using hill on nowinski?

[INFORMER]

I really don't see Amare playing the 5 as such a problem as many of you are portraying.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

We are getting killed on the boards it is a problem Amare needs help in the paint

[lazyboy62]

Perhaps I have had too much to drink, but the game last night showed me a lot. We do have some drive, but it isn't enough to get us over the hump. *yes I said hump* I think that the one thing that we are missing from the past is the outside shooting. The 3 ball isn't there and isn't allowing us to spread the passing lanes. The pick and role are almost no existant but when they are there they work. Marion needs to have some plays run for him is Amare is gonna dog the first quarter. The bench seemed to bring us back into it in the second, and I liked that. Doris isn't shooting well, but he did seem to be into the game.

I am not sure how to fix this short of a trade of one of our best. I still tend to think of this as more of a coaching issue then anything. We have most of the parts, but none of the ability to break from the mold and try something new, ie: DJ or Tucker. I would love to see new blood just to spark the bench. Don't know maybe I am crazy, but Coach D should at least try the players that he has.

[sunsdotcom]

rumour de jour

http://www.protrade.com/content/DisplayArticle.html?sp=Sba38e31a-af8a-11dc-ba00-574828460f5a


Another rumor has the Suns trading away Boris Diaw, while another rumor puts Andre Miller out of Philadelphia.

The Suns would be a good fit for Miller. Phoenix needs a back-up point guard who is better than Marcus Banks if they are going to use Leandro Barbosa at shooting guard. If the Suns were able to trade Diaw and his $9 million contract to the 76ers for Miller's $9 million contract, Phoenix would have great depth which would allow Nash to rest and give them a boost all the way through July.

The 76ers would want Marcus Banks to be thrown into the deal to replace Miller. And because Phoenix doesn't have a deep big man bench and because it works money wise -- Calvin Booth (6'10") would go to the Suns.

Potential Trade:
Phoenix Gets -- Andre Miller and Calvin Booth
Philadelphia Gets -- Boris Diaw and Marcus Banks

This trade won't happen because the 76ers don't really need Diaw as much as the Suns need Miller. Plus, the Suns like Marcus Banks and I don't see them giving him up unless they receive a quality guard like Miller. Diaw has been seen yelling at his team on the bench which means that the Suns are selling him pretty low. There could be some draft picks or cash involved to sugarcoat the trade, otherwise I doubt that this will happen.

[SpecialSauce]

eh?!?! The Suns like Marcus Banks? That's when you take this rumor and flush it down the toilet.

[Shabazz]

rumour de jour

http://www.protrade.com/content/DisplayArticle.html?sp=Sba38e31a-af8a-11dc-ba00-574828460f5a


Another rumor has the Suns trading away Boris Diaw, while another rumor puts Andre Miller out of Philadelphia.

The Suns would be a good fit for Miller. Phoenix needs a back-up point guard who is better than Marcus Banks if they are going to use Leandro Barbosa at shooting guard. If the Suns were able to trade Diaw and his $9 million contract to the 76ers for Miller's $9 million contract, Phoenix would have great depth which would allow Nash to rest and give them a boost all the way through July.

The 76ers would want Marcus Banks to be thrown into the deal to replace Miller. And because Phoenix doesn't have a deep big man bench and because it works money wise -- Calvin Booth (6'10") would go to the Suns.

Potential Trade:
Phoenix Gets -- Andre Miller and Calvin Booth
Philadelphia Gets -- Boris Diaw and Marcus Banks

This trade won't happen because the 76ers don't really need Diaw as much as the Suns need Miller. Plus, the Suns like Marcus Banks and I don't see them giving him up unless they receive a quality guard like Miller. Diaw has been seen yelling at his team on the bench which means that the Suns are selling him pretty low. There could be some draft picks or cash involved to sugarcoat the trade, otherwise I doubt that this will happen.

No offense, but I think this is the most baseless, ridiculous rumour I've ever heard in the history of trade rumours. To even call it a rumour is a fallacy considering it's just some dude on a message board suggesting trades.

The Suns like Banks???? Diaw has been seen yelling at his teammates on the bench????? Who are this guy's "sources," Jamie Morris? The Gorilla?

If Ed Stefanski (who by all accounts is going to be a great GM) called and offered to trade a productive point guard with an expiring contract for the Suns' 2 worst contracts, Kerr would have an orgasm and Sarver's head would explode before they had the chance to say "YES!"

[sunsdotcom]

i noticed that against toronto, tj ford was guarding marion. marion tried to post him up and tried to do a funky turn around shot inside that failed to connect.

[OE]

I really don't see Amare playing the 5 as such a problem as many of you are portraying.

INF, you are among my favorite posters. When you post, it is as if there are pearls being cast before me and my fellow swine. You are truly wise in the ways of basketball.

But do you mean to tell me that you don't notice how weak our interior is as a result of us playing an Amare-Marion-Hill front line? Are you saying that you cannot envision a wonderous improvement to our half court sets on both ends had we a second player over 6-10 with whom to team Amare? Improved rebounding? Improved interior D? At least, you could envision the increased versatility we'd have as a club if we could match up with bigger teams if we so chose, right?

Sensei, I hate to do this, but...

:roll:

[Mori_Chu]

Bottom line, smallball works when you have things like the following:

- a 3-4-4 front line instead of a 3-4-5 front line
- good shooters at the guard spots to spread the floor
- great athleticism
- great defense, even though a bit undersized
- great ball movement

We have good ball movement when Nash plays. But we play a 3-3-4 instead of a 3-4-4 front line; that hurts. We don't have the shooters out there that we used to. We're a bit older and not quite as dominant athletically as we used to be. And our defense is pretty bad (although the shot-blocking this year by guys like Skinner, Amare, and Marion is encouraging).

[JediSkywalker]

Perhaps I have had too much to drink, but the game last night showed me a lot. We do have some drive, but it isn't enough to get us over the hump. *yes I said hump* I think that the one thing that we are missing from the past is the outside shooting. The 3 ball isn't there and isn't allowing us to spread the passing lanes. The pick and role are almost no existant but when they are there they work. Marion needs to have some plays run for him is Amare is gonna dog the first quarter. The bench seemed to bring us back into it in the second, and I liked that. Doris isn't shooting well, but he did seem to be into the game.

I am not sure how to fix this short of a trade of one of our best. I still tend to think of this as more of a coaching issue then anything. We have most of the parts, but none of the ability to break from the mold and try something new, ie: DJ or Tucker. I would love to see new blood just to spark the bench. Don't know maybe I am crazy, but Coach D should at least try the players that he has.


I totally agree- the new blood/rookies- could provide the energy that the vets are lacking. It is definitely worth trying. They cannot possibly play worse than Banks, Diaw, Marks, etc. I still think they need to use Banks in short spurts when the starters are tired, Boris is not doing anything, and defense is needed. Banks does make a 3 pointer occasionally.

[scosuns]

Haha, the Suns love Marcus Banks. So yeah, we bench the guys we love and play teh guys we hate. Boy, can't you tell that the Suns hate Nash. All those minutes he gets. I can't believe I didn't see it. And to even think of trading a guy like Marcus Banks*shudder*

[jed]

eh?!?! The Suns like Marcus Banks? That's when you take this rumor and flush it down the toilet.

Agreed. We're the point where we'll pay to get rid of him -- which worries me draft pick-wise.

[INFORMER]

I really don't see Amare playing the 5 as such a problem as many of you are portraying.

INF, you are among my favorite posters. When you post, it is as if there are pearls being cast before me and my fellow swine. You are truly wise in the ways of basketball.

But do you mean to tell me that you don't notice how weak our interior is as a result of us playing an Amare-Marion-Hill front line? Are you saying that you cannot envision a wonderous improvement to our half court sets on both ends had we a second player over 6-10 with whom to team Amare? Improved rebounding? Improved interior D? At least, you could envision the increased versatility we'd have as a club if we could match up with bigger teams if we so chose, right?

Sensei, I hate to do this, but...

:roll:

:lol: I see what you're saying OE, and I can't say that I disagree. I just think the Suns can get by if they would just get the ball more to Amare on the offensive end, and then Amare needs to make sure he isn't coasting when it comes to playing D and hitting the boards. I don't think it is a lack of size that hurts us against teams other than San Antonio. I just think it is a matter of effort and team defense.

[jed]

I really don't see Amare playing the 5 as such a problem as many of you are portraying.

INF, you are among my favorite posters. When you post, it is as if there are pearls being cast before me and my fellow swine. You are truly wise in the ways of basketball.

But do you mean to tell me that you don't notice how weak our interior is as a result of us playing an Amare-Marion-Hill front line? Are you saying that you cannot envision a wonderous improvement to our half court sets on both ends had we a second player over 6-10 with whom to team Amare? Improved rebounding? Improved interior D? At least, you could envision the increased versatility we'd have as a club if we could match up with bigger teams if we so chose, right?

Sensei, I hate to do this, but...

:roll:

:lol: I see what you're saying OE, and I can't say that I disagree. I just think the Suns can get by if they would just get the ball more to Amare on the offensive end, and then Amare needs to make sure he isn't coasting when it comes to playing D and hitting the boards. I don't think it is a lack of size that hurts us against teams other than San Antonio. I just think it is a matter of effort and team defense.

That pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter as well. Nice post.

[OE]

You know, if Boris's play does not improve, he may end up costing us somewhere between 1 and 3 titles. At some point, I'm going to have to start writing his name as B**** D*** or (the other he who cannot be named).

To think, if only he were capable of getting pissed and hitting people and grabbing boards.

[Nodack]

We don't have the shooters out there we used to have? What shooters are we missing from last year? KT and James Jones? Skinner hasn't dropped a beat from KT and are you saying Hill is a step down from James Jones?

I know we aren't dominating anybody on defense and we haven't been running and gunning as much as we have at times in the past, but that doesn't mean the team mold is broken.

Nash has been fighting several nagging injuries which has had an effect on his shooting. Maybe his age is starting to catch up to him and maybe it's just basketball and people get injured playing basketball and he will be fine.

Marion has been playing inspired ball as usual, but his shooting %, especially his three point shooting is down this year. It's nothing major and it's still early.

Amare is probably the biggest "if" on the team right now. He is capable of being a dominating inside presence. He had a relatively minor surgery this year and we are all waiting for him to be that dominating force he once was again. He has started out the season as a foul magnet and that gas slowed him down more than anything else. He has shown at times that he still has his athleticism and has exploded a few times which shows me that it isn't his knees that are slowing him down. Amare is the biggest ? on the team right now if you ask me and until he gets it together we will struggle as a team at times.

Barbosa has improved every year and is who he is and I'm glad we have him, especially at the price we got him for. Some despise his game consider him a black hole on offense. He is a lethal weapon and love him or hate him he is on the team.

Bell has been banged up this year and it hasn't been from over use or old age. It has been mostly twisted ankles which happens in the NBA.

Diaw....... He has been called a lot of things this year. I'll just say he hasn't performed up to expectations. I think he capable of a lot when he has it going on and motivated. Diaw is another big ? for the Suns and a big wild card. He could be a goat or a savior. Only time will tell.

Skinner and Hill have so far exceeded my expectations by a wide margin. Both guy were picked up for cheap so kudos to the Suns for getting these guy even though some of you will just say Sarver was cheap.

"Bottom line" I think we have the right personnel to get the job done, but we have some issues and some healing to do to get there.

[cap]

We don't have the shooters out there we used to have? What shooters are we missing from last year? KT and James Jones? Skinner hasn't dropped a beat from KT and are you saying Hill is a step down from James Jones?
Raja Bell is a step down from Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa is a step down from Leandro Barbosa.

[SwingMan]

We don't have the shooters out there we used to have? What shooters are we missing from last year? KT and James Jones? Skinner hasn't dropped a beat from KT and are you saying Hill is a step down from James Jones?
Raja Bell is a step down from Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa is a step down from Leandro Barbosa.

Well put, cap.

Babs was kicking the shit out of opponents with the rhythm he was in when starting, while Raja's waiting in D'Antoni's wings, no matter how fast his body is falling apart.

Babs needs to start and Raja needs and has needed to heal for the whole damn season thus far.

[Nodack]

Raja twisted the ankle and then recovered enough to play again only to twist it again when Shaq stepped on his foot. He twisted it again the last game, but I don't think that means his body is falling apart. It means to me that he has had some bad luck and a tender ankle at this point.

Barbosa played the same way he did when he was starting as he does now except maybe a few less shots and he is playing with the starters. The big difference is he was on a shooting streak instead of a shooting slump. When you are on a shooting streak it means you are playing great and when you are in a shooting slump it means you suck and shoot too much.

[Mori_Chu]

We don't have the shooters out there we used to have? What shooters are we missing from last year? KT and James Jones? Skinner hasn't dropped a beat from KT and are you saying Hill is a step down from James Jones?
Raja Bell is a step down from Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa is a step down from Leandro Barbosa.

WORD. And even moreso, Shawn Marion is a HUGE step down from Shawn Marion.

I would add that "the shooters we used to have" really dates back to 2 seasons ago, where in addition to the better Raja and LB, you also had Tim Thomas and Eddie House. Now THAT team could shoot the lights out, so much so that we overcame ridiculous defensive and rebounding deficiencies and went deep into the playoffs before injuries did us in.

(As an aside, 05-06 will always be my favorite team of this modern Suns era, even if this year's team wins a title. The fact that 05-06 was chronicled in the :07 Seconds or Less book still makes me smile.)

[Nodack]

WORD. And even moreso, Shawn Marion is a HUGE step down from Shawn Marion.

I would add that "the shooters we used to have" really dates back to 2 seasons ago, where in addition to the better Raja and LB, you also had Tim Thomas and Eddie House. Now THAT team could shoot the lights out, so much so that we overcame ridiculous defensive and rebounding deficiencies and went deep into the playoffs before injuries did us in.

(As an aside, 05-06 will always be my favorite team of this modern Suns era, even if this year's team wins a title. The fact that 05-06 was chronicled in the :07 Seconds or Less book still makes me smile.)


I would argue that Raja is the same and only hobbled by an ankle injury now and I would argue that LB is better now than he was then. He has just went through a shooting slump like every player on the planet goes thru at various times in their careers, but I seriously doubt he is doomed to shooting poorly for the entire season.

We got Tim Thomas on the cheap for a season and a contract year. Everybody said from the beginning that he would only be here a year and get his big contract someplace else and then his numbers would go down because he no longer has to play for a contract. His numbers this year are 13 PPG on 38% shooting. Barbosa is getting a lot of grief for his horrible shooting % sitting at 47% for the year and is tied with Tim Thomas at 3pt% at 34%. If Tim Thomas was playing for the Suns now and playing the same way he is now, heads would be rolling and a lot of people would be pissed off saying how stupid it was to sign the guy when you know he was just playing for a contract like many are now about Diaw.

If I recall House got benched in the playoffs and he had no injury. I don't think he saw any minutes in the last series at all.

Marion is struggling at the three point shot, but is shooting 51% overall which puts him in second place on the team in shooting by anybody that gets meaningful minutes.

Just looking at the Clippers they only have one guy shooting 50% or better on the whole team and he averages 2 points a game.

If I recall in that famous 05-06 season, a lot of people were complaining about that team too and especially the style the Suns were playing. "Sure they score a lot of points, but they play no defense and that style will never beat anybody in the playoffs."

[misteradiant]

When Nash lost the ball out of bounce, there was some contact, but letting it go didn't bother me.

those must be some pretty good drugs or sex you're getting, informer. that call sure bothered me. bet it bothers a lot of people.

[misteradiant]

I don't think it is a lack of size that hurts us against teams other than San Antonio. I just think it is a matter of effort and team defense.

yes. it's like that.

[misteradiant]

We don't have the shooters out there we used to have? What shooters are we missing from last year? KT and James Jones? Skinner hasn't dropped a beat from KT and are you saying Hill is a step down from James Jones?
Raja Bell is a step down from Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa is a step down from Leandro Barbosa.

zing!

so then, why do we care? we suck, won't win, why bother?

it's an incredibly dry cake, and without milk, but damned it you can't eat it to!

but yeah, i wish leandro could start. let raja finish games.

[misteradiant]

And even moreso, Shawn Marion is a HUGE step down from Shawn Marion.

i don't agree with that at all. his stats are a wash until 3-point shooting, which is down but i think his rebounds (1 more this year) and points (1 less this year) are fine so far and also a wash. that is a far cry from the "HUGE step down" you post of. it's mildly disappointing at worst.

trade marion!

[JediSkywalker]

I was thinking earlier today that last year at this time in the season, the Spurs were not playing at the championship level. The year before, Miami was not playing that great. The Suns have enough time to peak at the right time. Whether that will happen or not is questionable, but it CAN happen. The team may just be finding itself. It is not even January yet.

The Mavs seem to have found themselves. They struggled for a while but they are playing with a lot of confidence now. That is scary. Again, as long as the Suns peak at the right time, they can beat anybody.

[darrkin]

I was thinking earlier today that last year at this time in the season, the Spurs were not playing at the championship level. The year before, Miami was not playing that great. The Suns have enough time to peak at the right time. Whether that will happen or not is questionable, but it CAN happen. The team may just be finding itself. It is not even January yet.

The Mavs seem to have found themselves. They struggled for a while but they are playing with a lot of confidence now. That is scary. Again, as long as the Suns peak at the right time, they can beat anybody.

Not saying that we will win it all for sure, but the Mavs are soft. Im way more afraid of Lakers, GS and Spurs. Either of these teams would beat Mavs in a series. Maybe Lakers wouldnt, i guess. One thing thats good to know is that we are still real damn good, and we havent peaked yet. I think if Amare plays like he just did consistently we are championship contenders. I also think we need to start Barbs and let Raja take his time coming back. Trade Diaw, for anyone besides the tin man

[JediSkywalker]

We don't have the shooters out there we used to have? What shooters are we missing from last year? KT and James Jones? Skinner hasn't dropped a beat from KT and are you saying Hill is a step down from James Jones?
Raja Bell is a step down from Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa is a step down from Leandro Barbosa.

WORD. And even moreso, Shawn Marion is a HUGE step down from Shawn Marion.
I would add that "the shooters we used to have" really dates back to 2 seasons ago, where in addition to the better Raja and LB, you also had Tim Thomas and Eddie House. Now THAT team could shoot the lights out, so much so that we overcame ridiculous defensive and rebounding deficiencies and went deep into the playoffs before injuries did us in.

(As an aside, 05-06 will always be my favorite team of this modern Suns era, even if this year's team wins a title. The fact that 05-06 was chronicled in the :07 Seconds or Less book still makes me smile.)

I disagree about Marion. He actually looks improved to me. He has put behind him all the talk about trade and lack of appreciation. He is playing with great intensity and making things happen. He is #4 in steals in the NBA.

I agree about LB and Raja. Bell has been injured since the start of the season, and it is keeping him from taking a good jump shot. LB seems to have lost confidence. He was never close to being Nash and it will be wrong to expect that from him. As long as he is scoring points, we should be happy about it, but right now he is not doing that. He can't even make both FTs at any given time. He definitely needs some kind of a boost. Where is Dan Dantoni?

Amare and Nash are both a step down due to injuries, though Nash makes up for it through assists. The Suns have suffered injury problems this season. If they can return to good health by the playoffs, they will be in good shape.

I would still like to see one strong defender/post player to take the pressure off Amare. Strange (or may be not so strange) that after the Suns got rid of their best defensive player, we are lamenting the lack of defense. I don't know if Dantoni et al. are regretting that decision now (to get rid of KT).

[JediSkywalker]

When Nash lost the ball out of bounce, there was some contact, but letting it go didn't bother me.

those must be some pretty good drugs or sex you're getting, informer. that call sure bothered me. bet it bothers a lot of people.

What about the no call when Nash got mugged by a Mav (I think it was Dampier, but not sure) and had to get 8 stitches on his chin? I hate seeing him being mauled by big guys. We need someone on the Suns team that could retaliate (within the rules of course).

[JackArse]

[QUOTE]

BTW- When Nash lost the ball out of bounce, there was some contact, but letting it go didn't bother me.



i hate when my ball is out of bounce. theni have to go buy new bounce, but i can never get the right scent.

[ShelC]

BTW- When Nash lost the ball out of bounce, there was some contact, but letting it go didn't bother me.

That one bothered me then and it bothers me now. Devin Harris clearly reached in and grabbed Nash's right wrist. What bugs me most is that LeBron, Kobe, DWade will get that call without question in the closing moments like that. Nash never does.

[Sunny_Kid]

I miss James Jones very much. He is an above-50-percent outside shooter and a good defender now. We got him cheap , and give up for nothing.

This kind of franchise may not deserve a title.

[JediSkywalker]

I miss James Jones very much. He is an above-50-percent outside shooter and a good defender now. We got him cheap , and give up for nothing.

This kind of franchise may not deserve a title.


We got Kurt Thomas for a high price, we gave him up for nothing, and now he is playing great for another team.

That seems to be the pattern.

....and now we can say (at the end of this season) we lost Joe Johnson for nothing.

[cap]

I miss James Jones very much. He is an above-50-percent outside shooter and a good defender now. We got him cheap , and give up for nothing.

This kind of franchise may not deserve a title.


We got Kurt Thomas for a high price, we gave him up for nothing, and now he is playing great for another team.

That seems to be the pattern.

....and now we can say (at the end of this season) we lost Joe Johnson for nothing.

Hey, we didn’t give up James Jones and Kurt Thomas for nothing. We game them up for the privilege of divesting ourselves of three first-round draft picks. And we gave up Joe Johnson for the opportunity to invest $45M in Boris Diaw. “Nothing,” pshaw.

[Phoenix219]

Thomas seems to have another budding controversy to deal with, after getting into a heated exchange with Quentin Richardson during a timeout early in the third quarter. Thomas had to be restrained by assistant coach Herb Williams, and Richardson never returned to the game.


More Kncks drama...

Any chance we can get Q back? Possibly for Diaw or Banks + change? That could be KEY....

[SpecialSauce]

I miss James Jones very much. He is an above-50-percent outside shooter and a good defender now. We got him cheap , and give up for nothing.

This kind of franchise may not deserve a title.

I'm sorry I can't stop laughing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAH~!!!!!!!

[Mori_Chu]

And even moreso, Shawn Marion is a HUGE step down from Shawn Marion.

i don't agree with that at all. his stats are a wash until 3-point shooting, which is down but i think his rebounds (1 more this year) and points (1 less this year) are fine so far and also a wash. that is a far cry from the "HUGE step down" you post of. it's mildly disappointing at worst.

trade marion!

MR, my message was written in the context of our 3pt shooting. I agree that Marion is in general playing very well for us. But I was trying to say that Marion, and (to a lesser degree) LB and Raja, are not shooting 3s as well as they used to for us.

[SwingMan]

I miss James Jones very much. He is an above-50-percent outside shooter and a good defender now. We got him cheap , and give up for nothing.

This kind of franchise may not deserve a title.

I'm sorry I can't stop laughing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAH~!!!!!!!

Yeah Sunny, this is all part of James Jones' infamous "honeymoon" period - nothing more.

As you should know from his 2 years here in Phoenix, James Jones has had approximately 1 good month of production per season, always early in the season (November, 2005 in his first year here - then January, 2007 after "ballgate"). He didn't get any rotation time in Portland during the first month, so his first real month's worth of time has been December.

I'm laying even money that JR will be back to shooting blanks when it counts by mid-January, just like his 2 years here.....

[misteradiant]

And even moreso, Shawn Marion is a HUGE step down from Shawn Marion.

i don't agree with that at all. his stats are a wash until 3-point shooting, which is down but i think his rebounds (1 more this year) and points (1 less this year) are fine so far and also a wash. that is a far cry from the "HUGE step down" you post of. it's mildly disappointing at worst.

trade marion!

MR, my message was written in the context of our 3pt shooting. I agree that Marion is in general playing very well for us. But I was trying to say that Marion, and (to a lesser degree) LB and Raja, are not shooting 3s as well as they used to for us.

ah. that's better. sorry if i misunderstood ya, mori.

[Mori_Chu]

No worries, MR. Hard to follow the threads' context sometimes, particularly if the lazy poster (me) doesn't quote very well!


I'm laying even money that JR will be back to shooting blanks when it counts by mid-January, just like his 2 years here.....

Swing, one thing to remember is that James Jones is pretty young. I bet he becomes a more consistent in-game 3-point shooter the further he gets into his career. I know we gave him plenty of chances here, and I don't greatly regret trading him (except for the pick we had to lose to do it!). But I bet that within the next few years he becomes a valuable contributor to somebody.

[SwingMan]

After his stint here (not to mention the exact same pattern during his 2 years in Indy beforehand), call me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see it.