Game Day: Suns @ Mavs

[Superbone]

If the Suns can't get up for this one...

Dis∙cuss

[sose]

Gotta find a sports bar near downtown la that doesn't suck.. Go Suns! Don't let us down.. This is a big game, lets get another big win!

[MTSunsFan]

Preview:


Phoenix (18-7) at Dallas (17-9)

Preview - Box Score - Recap

Game Info: 9:30 pm EST Wed Dec 19, 2007
TV: ESPN, My45 Add to Calendar
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By BRETT HUSTON, STATS Writer

The Phoenix Suns have been comfortable on the road all season. After one big win in Texas, they're primed to do something they haven't done in nearly a decade.

Phoenix looks to complete a road sweep of the NBA's two Texas teams Wednesday night when it visits the Dallas Mavericks.

The Suns (18-7), who defeated the Spurs 100-95 at San Antonio on Monday, haven't beaten both Texas teams on the same road trip since Feb. 14 and 17, 1998.

They could also enter this game on a high, after handing San Antonio its first loss in 14 home games this season before a charged crowd.

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"It definitely was fun to play the last few minutes. High intensity. The fans were up and at it," said Amare Stoudemire, who had 17 points for Phoenix. "A playoff atmosphere. If you get a playoff atmosphere game in December, you know it's fun to play."

Although the Suns improved to a conference-best 11-4 on the road and defeated the team which eliminated them from last postseason, they also treated it as just one game.

"This game is a good building block for us and all that's left is to complete our trip with a win in Dallas," said forward Grant Hill, who scored a team-high 22 points against the Spurs while adding seven rebounds.

Phoenix's last visit to Dallas was one of the most memorable games of the 2006-07 season. The Suns came from 15 down at the start of the fourth quarter to force overtime, and eventually won 129-127 in double overtime thanks to Stoudemire's 41 points and Steve Nash's 32 points and 16 assists.

Phoenix has won its last two meetings with Dallas, but the series has been very even since the start of 2003-04, with the Mavericks holding an 8-7 advantage.

Overall, Dallas (17-9) has won three in a row and five of six, and is coming off a 111-108 win on Monday against Orlando which improved the Mavs to 11-2 at home.

"I think we're taking a step in the right direction," said Dirk Nowitzki, who scored 31 points - his third 30-point game in the last seven. He also had 11 rebounds and four assists, and hit his first 3-pointer in four games late in the fourth quarter.

Nowitzki is a career 38 percent shooter from beyond the arc, but is hitting just 20.6 percent of his long-distance attempts this season.

"I don't know why my 3 ball is not going in," Nowitzki said. "That's something I'll continue to shoot when it's there. Hopefully as the season progresses I can make enough at a higher percentage."

While Nowitzki's scoring average is down to 21.2 this season from 24.6 when he was the NBA's MVP in 2006-07, Josh Howard has elevated his game. He's averaging 21.8 points and 7.1 rebounds - both career bests - in his fifth pro season.


Updated on Tuesday, Dec 18, 2007 10:42 pm, EST

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Team Comparison
Team Record Standings PF PA Road/Home Streak L10
Phoenix 18-7 1st Pacific / 2nd West 109.2 104.2 Road 11-4 Won 1 7-3
Dallas 17-9 2nd Southwest / 4th West 101.8 98.2 Home 11-2 Won 3 6-4

Phoenix Notes
Dec 18 The Suns already accomplished something they didn't last year. They beat the Spurs in San Antonio. Last year, the home team won all three meetings. ... It was the Suns' first win in San Antonio since March 4, 2003. ... Phoenix is 18-2 when scoring at least 100 points. ... Raja Bell hit one 3-pointer in the game, but it was the 600th of his career. st 12-18-07 1:16 et
Dallas Notes
Dec 18 Dallas made 52.5 percent of its shots compared to 52.4 percent for Orlando. ... The Mavericks are 15-0 when shooting a higher field-goal percentage than their opponent. They are 2-8 when they fail to shoot better than their opponent. ... F Brandon Bass, who is averaging 8.5 points per game for the season, is averaging just 2.8 points per game in his last five games. ... F Jerry Stackhouse, who is averaging 10.4 points for the season, is averaging 14.8 points per game over his last seven games.
st 12-18-07 0:48 et

[darrkin]

Gotta find a sports bar near downtown la that doesn't suck.. Go Suns! Don't let us down.. This is a big game, lets get another big win!

You should be able to find many in LA area, but if not theres always Hooters!

[Mori_Chu]

The Mavs are a snake in the grass. Everyone has written them off this year because of their somewhat "slow" start and their collapses in the playoffs. All the writers said they should have made bigger changes this offseason.

In my mind Dallas is doing everything right. You win championships by keeping everything together, by going through hell and losing out in the playoffs in the most heartbreaking way possible, over and over. It fuels you to victory. Even MJ's Bulls in the late 80s had many defeats at the hands of tougher East teams like the Pistons before they broke through.

IMO the Mavs did exactly the right thing, keeping everyone together and even adding a few new pieces around the edges such as their rookie Bass. Why the Mavs and Spurs can work in new players but we can't remains a mystery to me.

I picked the Mavs to win the title this year in the Predictions thread, and I stand by it. I think they are built better than we are to beat the Spurs, and I think they are deep and talented enough to hang with the Pistons or Celtics when they come out of the East. The Mavs are deadly.

This should be a great game. Suns are playing fairly well with some big wins lately, and the Mavs seem to be playing better after their slow start. I can't wait to watch this one.

[Nodack]

If the Suns can't get up for this one...

Dis∙cuss

Consistency is a good thing.

Go Suns!

[Wormwood]

Consistency is a good thing.

Go Suns!

I'll drink to that. Back to back road wins against our two biggest rivals would go a long ways towards allaying my worries about what we should do.

That said, we need Boris to score. A lot. Dampier, Diop, and Dirk can't guard him when he takes it strong to the hole.

Amare needs to keep Dampier off the boards. Anyone else remember Dampier's 11 offensive rebound game last year against us. Ugh. Note: Amare's averaging a career low in rebounds right now (excluding his 3 game microfracture season).

Barbosa needs to knuckle down on defense and lock down on Devin Harris. They're very similar players, but Barbs length and speed should allow him to guard any PG effectively. He's gotten much better at playing with his feet than with his hands (like he used to).

Nash just needs to get healthy. His shooting has been woefull.

Skinner vs. Dirk? The Principal just might be quick enough to guard him.

Marion or Bell needs to be locked on Josh Howard all night. He's the biggest threat on that team now.

[Superbone]

I can't wait to watch this one.

That's too bad. You'll have to wait just like the rest of us! ;)

[Superbone]

Consistency is a good thing.

Go Suns!

Heh. You noticed, eh? I didn't want to change a thing after the results last time.

[Xcon]

I'll drink to that. Back to back road wins against our two biggest rivals would go a long ways towards allaying my worries about what we should do.

That said, we need Boris to score. A lot. Dampier, Diop, and Dirk can't guard him when he takes it strong to the hole.

Amare needs to keep Dampier off the boards. Anyone else remember Dampier's 11 offensive rebound game last year against us. Ugh. Note: Amare's averaging a career low in rebounds right now (excluding his 3 game microfracture season).

Barbosa needs to knuckle down on defense and lock down on Devin Harris. They're very similar players, but Barbs length and speed should allow him to guard any PG effectively. He's gotten much better at playing with his feet than with his hands (like he used to).

Nash just needs to get healthy. His shooting has been woefull.

Skinner vs. Dirk? The Principal just might be quick enough to guard him.

Marion or Bell needs to be locked on Josh Howard all night. He's the biggest threat on that team now.


Must be because Barbosa is taking too many shots or something like that. :-)

[SpecialSauce]

Must be because Barbosa is taking too many shots or something like that. :-)

Maybe I'm different, but when I play basketball and I feel like I'm not getting my share of the ball on offense, subconsciously my all around game suffers. You just don't get pumped up the same as when you "feel" it, you feel the flow of the game and you feel like you're important. So, yes I would say that Amare not getting enough shots factors in. We've all seen how much better and more active Amare is when he gets the ball early in the game.

[Bogyo]

Yes, Sauce you are different than the most of us (but at least you stopped with the Hoff pictures).
That being said, /MR poem?/ I agree with the rest of your post as well. :)

suns win. if we can contain Howard. Wassup with Dirk this season?

[misteradiant]

That said...


manic mind
it makes a creator
it makes things uncomfortable
sometimes
it makes dreams come true when i think i've spoken to god
and god has heard me with a yes
hours passing waiting
thoughts wander to the devil left in me
this place where god rises above
still leaves me standing with evil
earth and dirt and lies of past lives
dusty resurrection
as the moon grows brighter with sunray reflection
with lines other lies have etched in my face
the night grows longer
and i can't let the promise of the day go

......

go suns!

[misteradiant]

That being said, /MR poem?

of course.


working
notes from a guitar string falling bling bling invisibility
'cause nobody hears it
curses
people and towns and if i could figure out how to lay them out
you know i would
but i'd be a killer
and god and television and referee preferences
this is how we're gonna call this one
instead of straight and even
like a carpenter would
to do his job right
ironic that jesus was a carpenter and was nailed to a post
root for the underdog and be with god
or laugh with the winners
it's payday

[SpecialSauce]

Yes, Sauce you are different than the most of us (but at least you stopped with the Hoff pictures).
That being said, /MR poem?/ I agree with the rest of your post as well. :)

suns win. if we can contain Howard. Wassup with Dirk this season?

You want a Hoff picture?!?!?!?!?! You got it!!

http://www.curlymcdimple.com/images/dh/hoff_soap.jpg

[SunsFan4Life]

Suns Drop this one 109-99.

Hope I'm Wrong, But It's pretty tough to win in Dallas and SA in a 3 day span.

GO SUNS!!!!!!!!!

[sose]

Why the Mavs and Spurs can work in new players but we can't remains a mystery to me.

Mori, you'll have to explain that to me.. How about Tim Thomas? Jim Jackson? Raja Bell? Grant Hill?

None of those new players were worked into the system?

[AlanS]

Phoenix's last visit to Dallas was one of the most memorable games of the 2006-07 season. The Suns came from 15 down at the start of the fourth quarter to force overtime, and eventually won 129-127 in double overtime thanks to Stoudemire's 41 points and Steve Nash's 32 points and 16 assists.

A big problem for the Suns going into this game is, Nash is in a shooting slump, probably due to injury. And Amare's game has also been below standards - for him- recently, also probably due to injury.

But against the Spurs, other guys stepped up. Hill led the team in scoring, Diaw played well, LB was ineffiecient but he did score a lot of points, abd Skinner provided some defense. We will need similar efforts from our supporting cast to win. We'll see.

Ah, memories... A couple of seasons ago, vs the Mavs in the WCF, Boris average something like 25 pts, 6-7 rebs, 5-6 assts, and shot 52%. That's what got him his $9M per year contract, which he is not living up to right now. I hope Diaw gets a flashback tonight.

[SwingMan]

Why the Mavs and Spurs can work in new players but we can't remains a mystery to me.

Mori, you'll have to explain that to me.. How about Tim Thomas? Jim Jackson? Raja Bell? Grant Hill?

None of those new players were worked into the system?

I think he means beyond D'Antoni's chosen "big 8" - in which case, there's definite cause for concern, and a shitload of ire.....

[singh]

May I add

hot the road rick damp pants

[Spanky]

Gah.. Can Amare look any worse? Lookin' like shit right now.

[DrSublime]

i agree
Amare looks like crap
on both offense and defense...

gesus...

[DrSublime]

who else likes Skinner/Diaw better then amare this game...

[RDM2]

This is stupid. Our defense is horrible. Seriously my grandpa could go out there and school these buncha clowns right now.

[Spanky]

Like has been said before, Skinner needs to start at the 5 and Amare at the 4.

[AlanS]

i agree
Amare looks like crap
on both offense and defense...

You're speaking the truth, and it's hard to handle.

I do like how nash has come out. He seems practically rejuvanated.

Question: why isn't Boris trying to go to the low post, where he's had some success, instead of shooting jumpers... which he keeps missing...

EDIT: The worst Suns 1st qtr of the season? And it seems like Amare's play started it all cascading downward.

[DrSublime]

how about this lineup..

Nash
Hill
Marion
Stoudemire
Skinner....

huh ? huh? !

[DrSublime]

the whole team, minus Nash and Marion look out of it tonight...

[Catharsis]

Amare needs to pull his head out of his ass and play defense. It is inexcusable for Dampier to have 8 points in the first quarter when he averages under 5 a game. Amare is getting horrible inside position and bouncing around the key. Plant your damn feet and play defense!

[SwingMan]

Dallas has played a perfect 1st Q while the Suns are waltzing.

Can you tell who Nash is calling out now?

FUCKING EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(with the possible exception of Hill)

Diaw needs to be drop kicked.....

[Suns_Dave]

Our defense... is not very good. And what's with Amare looking so useless out there? It's weird seeing Westy on the Dallas bench.

[Spanky]

how about this lineup..

Nash
Hill
Marion
Stoudemire
Skinner....

huh ? huh? !

I think you need someone other than hill, to stretch the defense. Maybe toss LB in instead of Hill..

[desertcoast]

wow..did the wheels come off in that quarter....:shock:

[Phoenix219]

how about this lineup..

Nash
Hill
Marion
Stoudemire
Skinner....

huh ? huh? !

Only if Hill and Marion were great 3 point shooters.

[DrSublime]

yea but could you imagine the size! HAHAHAHA

did everyone catch the between qtr interview of coach D

he looks PISSSSSED

[Suns_Dave]

Finally Raja hits something.

[DrSublime]

Brian Skinner for MVP!!!!!!!

[DrSublime]

scratch that
GRANT HILL FOR MVP!!!!

[SwingMan]

Skinner. Is. A. Revelation.

See that Amare?

[Phoenix219]

whats the score now?

i hate not having cable and living on the east coast.

[SwingMan]

43-30 Dallas.....

[DrSublime]

espn360. com man its streaming

[SunsFan4Life]

Grant Fucking Hill Ladies and Gents. Diop got posterized.

Amare looks like shit tonight Dampier is owning him...I hate it when Stat looks disinterested.

[BigLewy]

So the Hawks win in OT vs Miami and Memphis manages to score 9 pts in the 4th q and will lose to the Spurs more than likely....nice little night of bball we have going on here.

[Spanky]

BigLewy, not to mention the way Boston lost tonight... That was a terrible way to go out.

[DrSublime]

i duno if amare looks disinterested
but he looks a step or 2 slow.

[BigLewy]

Well I take that back, Memphis canned a game saving 3. Now if the Suns would get their asses in gear. That Atl pick sure looks like crap now though, unfortunately.

[Spanky]

i duno if amare looks disinterested
but he looks a step or 2 slow.

No lift, not explosiveness, no brain power = the suck. I hope he can turn it around..

[DrSublime]

finally
a dominate move by Amare

[SunsFan4Life]

We so need another big body...Boris is playing very girly again tonight...I don't get it he kills the Mavs usually...

[DrSublime]

gosh damn
dampier is a prick

cant believe thats not a flagrant.

[BigLewy]

I have a feeling that PJ Brown will be on his way soon. Marks as the last big just isnt gonna cut it. Sarver is over the tax already, what is another 2 mill, just dont buy your 5th house.

[DrSublime]

nevermind they changed it :)

[DrSublime]

does Devin Harris remind anyone esle of old school KJ?

[SunsFan4Life]

God I can't believe we're making Dampier look relavent out there

[SwingMan]

Love the job Eddie F. Rush is doing tonight.

Does that fucker have serious man love for Texas or what? :roll:

[Phoenix219]

espn360. com man its streaming

doesn't help on a dial up modem.

[Immortal]

Nice run to end the half.

[SunsFan4Life]

Good close to the quarter...jeeze Suns/Mavs u just know it's always gonna come down to the last 2mins espcially in Dallas

[SwingMan]

Holy shit!

For once, Martix didn't miss a chippie - and it was at the buzzer to bring the Suns within 4, 58-54, at the half.

Keep the fucking hammer down. These guys (Dallas) by-and-large are a band of cream puffs.

[RDM2]

Thank god. They picked up the intensity. Im in awe, but jesus this team really is determined to give us all heart attacks with this roller coaster stuff.

[sehan]

our second unit sucks - that is the one consistent fact

[jkalldaway]

If Amare keeps this up I really wonder if he will be dealt.

[AlanS]

At the half:

[1] I think I've seen this before: Haven't there been other games in Dallas where the Mavs have come out with a lot of energy, built a huge early lead, and couldn't hold it. I don't know why this keeps happening, but it does. I think part of it the "punch yourself out syndrome" - the Mavs used so much energy to build a lead, it's just impossible to sustain it. Meanwhile, the Suns just keep on coming.

[2] Just imagine where the Suns would be if Amare wasn't shooting just 1/8, with 3 rebs? I have never seen him play so poorly.

[3] Amazingly the Suns are shooting 53.3% from the field, despite Amare at 1/8 in 15 minutes, Diaw at 1/5 in 11 minutes. But Marion has been El Salvador for the 1st half.

[4] The game is up for grabs, but with Amare and Boris both stinking up the joint, it seems like the Dallas adjustment is easier: contain Nash and/or Marion. Meanwhile, even with their running out of gas, Dallas is more diverse in their scoring, and they are getting 2nd chance points. This is going to be very tough for PHX. But huge props for not being blown out at the half.

[AlanS]

If Amare keeps this up I really wonder if he will be dealt.

If Amare plays like this, who would want him?

At least, I think a lot of this is due to Amare having problems with knee. You could argue that he's just hurting the team with his diminished game, but would the Suns have any chance with Skinner as the lone big man?

Still, he's got to play smarter, if he can't play with the same athleticism he's depended on throughout his career.

[Suns_Dave]

LOL, how the tables have turned. Never thought I'd see the day when Dampier looked like the more dominant player than Amare.

Scratch that. Nice dunk by Stoudemire on Damp's head.

[sose]

I told those shitbag lakers fans that we'd have it down to single digits by then end of the half, and tied by the middle of the 3rd.. Fuck LA basketball teams.. Fuck Texas basketball teams..

GO SUNS!

[sose]

that was a fucking goaltend.. Raja's shot was on the way down!

[Xcon]

How long before we can say there's something definitely wrong with Amare. He used to own guys like Dampier. Damn, it's depressing to think about the athleticism he used to have. SIgh

[sose]

Then they get the goaltend right, and fuck up the offensive foul on Amare.. Nash for 3!

[sose]

And the thunderous slam by Amare.. Or should I say, the POWER and FURY of Amare Stoudemire!

[sose]

Ticky tack foul on Marion, then Diaw gets hammered, and nothing... Fuck these refs.. Fuck them in their goat asses..

[AlanS]

Key part of the game - Hill, LB, Diaw, Skinner, Bell are in, Nash, Stats, Shawn are sitting... can they score and defend well enough to make a difference?

[sose]

www.GET-A-FUCKING-REBOUND.com

[SunsFan4Life]

Bad play by Barbosa even if he gets that over bass it has like a 15% chance of going in

[AlanS]

After 3 qtrs:

Suns: 12 TOs, leading to 17 Mav pts
Mavs: 7 TOs, leading to 12 Suns pts

Suns: 5 off reb
Mavs: 13 off reb

Suns: 3 treys (3/6 3FG)
Mavs: 4 treys (4/12 3FG)

It is amazing Suns are just down by 6. I don't know if the energy will be there to win the game.

[sose]

You didn't include fast break points..

[Catharsis]

Ticky tack foul on Marion, then Diaw gets hammered, and nothing... Fuck these refs.. Fuck them in their goat asses..

Ed F Rush (the F stands for fucking incompetent) of game 3 against the Spurs fame. People want to blame Donaghy for that game. Rush was the one who made insane calls and then a bunch of no whistles.

[AlanS]

Wow, a bunch of bad plays, bad passes... 89 Mavs, 77 Suns.

I'm trying to figure out... did Boris sell his soul to the devil, when he was so good vs Dallas in the WCF a while back? It looks like the devil is getting payback.

I wish Nash could have gone in sooner. But at least nobody will say he played too many minutes.

[desertcoast]

Multiple Personality Disorder Symptoms:



Multiple personalities, on average 10 though there can be as few as two and as many as 100
Exhibits different personalities, behavior and even physical characteristics
SEE: SUNS, PHOENIX

[Xcon]

How are we supposed to get a rebound when the coach refuses to play a line up with any kind of size. Please give SKinner some fucking time.

[Catharsis]

How are we supposed to get a rebound when the coach refuses to play a line up with any kind of size. Please give SKinner some fucking time.

Allow Amare, Shawn or Boris to push in the back like Dick and Dampier and maybe you'll see more improvement on the boards.

[AlanS]

How are we supposed to get a rebound when the coach refuses to play a line up with any kind of size. Please give SKinner some fucking time.

Who would you sit?

[sehan]

We can't get a fucking rebound cause our guards are busy running down trying to cherry pick while the other whole team is swarming the glass. Fucking pussies - sickens me.

[bobster]

19 offensive rebounds for dallas.

[BobbyDogg]

I'll tell you what.

The Phoenix Suns should be ashamed of the number of offensive rebounds they have given up to Dallas in this game.

Josh Howard is outplaying the Suns by himself.

[SunsFan4Life]

Not that it matters but...Mark Wonderlich is an AWFUL OFFICIAL. Dirk losses it out of bonus...Devin Harris flops(love how JVG was mocking it for it) and Marion gets racked on the arm on the alley opp...

But yea we definitly deserve to lose this game Get a rebound Phoenix...for the love of god...

Diaw needs to be traded we don't have the pieces to take it this yr hopefully we can get a Big and Another shooter for him but he just isn't doing anything out there

[sose]

Oh shit.. Amare threw down!

[sose]

Then Amare gets the block, and gets the outbound pass to Nash.. Some life has shown up on Planet Orange!

[SunsFan4Life]

Clean foul by Howard I thought....

Pick and roll why don't we do that all night against these guys? I means eriously have they stopped it in the 4yrs we've had Stat and Nash?

[sose]

Down to 4.. lets get 'er done!

[bobster]

sloppy execution killing them again.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Amare takes a charge on Damp and Nash comes down and turns it over!!!

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Amare taking this game over!

[BobbyDogg]

It seems every time the Suns get a chance to close the score they turn it over.

They're playing hard though. I love to see STAT throw down like that! I wish he'd do it more often.

[sose]

Here we go!

[Xcon]

Who would you sit?

I just think a front line of Amare, Hill and Marion or Amare, Diaw, and Marion is just to small. And I think the fact that we're the worst rebounding team in the league might back my argument. You think we shouldn't play Skinner more? Damn this team to hell. Jekyll and Hyde they are

[SwingMan]

I think these mutherfuckers ought to get docked for this one. You don't feel like playing the whole game? Fine, we won't pay you for one.

Lord knows Sarver'd back that fucker to the HILT.....

[Suns_Dave]

Not exactly the clutch shot we were looking for there, but nice dribble move against Howard to get a clean look.

[SunsFan4Life]

Well solid effort at the end but you can't just decide to play D in the 4th quarter and expect to win it's not gonna happen.

Amare looked great in the 4th but where is that Energy all game?

Hope Raja is alright but if he misses a few games can we atleast give Tucker or D.J. a sniff? We know what Pike,Banks and Marks r gonna give us which is nothing. Put the others in with Nash and see what happens!

[JackArse]

no comment

[BobbyDogg]

I know this will sound wacky but the Suns didn't really deserve to win this game. They played focused and physical in spurts and turned the ball over way too much.

When you see them playing hard like they were the last 7 minutes, it frustrates me because I know if they played like that for the majority of the game, they'd crush anybody.

Kudos to the Mavs. They were aggressive didn't fold when the Suns came back on them.

[Spanky]

Good effort in the fourth. If they played with that energy every game, it would be no contest (the 4th). Anyway, to the victor go the spoils.

[SunsFan4Life]

I Agree BDogg. I give kudos to the Mavs for finding a Steal Like Brandon Bass. Jeeze if we signed him he prob would sit on the bench and we would think he was another Pike.

We can't play D in spurts and Why we don't run pick and roll with Stat and Nash all night is beyond me against this team. Dirk is an AWFUL DEFENDER his Help D was pathetic and Damp isn't quick enough to defend those Pick and Rolls.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Nash with the airball...Amare needs to leave Phoenix so he can reach is full potential..This guy should be our #1 and 2 option on offense..He made big defensive plays down the stretch..If we trade Amare we will regret it, but I hope he goes to a team that is smart enough to realize that he is a PF

[darrkin]

I think one of the announcers said it best, if Suns play the way they did most of thesecond half the entire game they would be ahead. Positives though are that Amare finally looked like Amare....Also I know they beat us, but im still not impressed by Mavs...thats as good as they can play and they barely beat us after we half assed it for a 1/2. Its gonna be Suns, Spurs, Golden State, and Lakers in West that are the biggest threats. Lakers could be scary if a rumored trade goes through to give them Kidd. I thought we found some of our pop in second half, just a little too late. Also Coach went with Barbs wayyyyyyy toooooo lonngggg, Saucy is haveing a field day right now im sure as Barbs did pretty much kill us. Also it would be nice if Raja could actually shoot the ball when open and make a few easy shots. We need another shooter, period. Isnt there a Euro out there that can hit threes automatically. BTW, Everyone still want to get rid of Stat?? To me, I'll get rid of Nash before Stat.

[AlanS]

You know what, I'm sorry Amare Stoudemire, but YOU take a lot of the blame for this loss.

Yes, you were very very good in the 4th. But if you could do that in the 4th, why couldn't you do that in the 1st? Your poor play at the start of the game put us in the hole. You had lots of energy to close the game - no wonder, since you did hardly anything to start it.

Thank your teammates for keeping it close, and so avoid you having to look like a total goat. Props to the team for not folding after being down by 17 in the first quarter.

But you came out the gate in slow motion. WTF man, WTF?

PS: Boris, please go to rehab. Now.

[sehan]

We lost, but good game (despite the laps by the second unit).

Some points from the game and season so far.

1. As is shown in today's game, we are only good as the big 3 take us. Shawn with this energetic defense, Nash, and Amare with his ability to rise for the big game.

2. No one better bitch about Amare's effor tonight - down the stretch he was about the only useful player out there.

3. Barbosa is not a point guard period. For second unit, we need Grant handling the ball. Jeff Vangundy knows it, thunder Dan knows it, half of this board knows it, fuck my dog said it the other day. Only if Mike will just get over his favoritism and admit it. (Although it was nice to see Mike yell at him for a change during the game)

4. While I believed, and hoped, and hoped, and prayed, Doris is done!!! He just doesn't care. He fucks up and gets pulled, and he has this smirk on his face. No emotion what so fucking ever.

5. Second point about Amare. Someone mentioned on another thread that they think Amare plays tentatively in the first half worried about his foul issues. I didn't believe it, but it looks like it may be true. Complete different player in the second half. Maybe he is saving his knees or his worried about the fouls, but definitely he has shown a different side on the second half. Either way, definitely not 100% yet. Even when he is hustling, he has no hops.

6. Bell had ankle injury in the last minutes of the game. Hope he sits out for a long time and comeback when he is completely healed. Mike get it through your head - regular seasons games are practice.

7. Second unit is useless. Especially when Barbosa is not shooting well.

8. One of these nights I am just liable to go and kick Mike D'Antoni in the face. Anyone else's solution to Diaw not playing well and us getting man handled on the boards - put in Skinner. Mike D's solution: go smaller and put in Grant Hill. UGH!!!


But overall satisfied with the ball game. We'll get it right eventually. This game proved it to me. I know when it matters, the key players will bring it. And those are the only players Coach will ever ever play anyways.

In Amare we trust.

[INFORMER]

1. I really like JVG as a commentator. His rant about Devin Harris flopping was simply hilarious.

2. Look, I wanted to trade Shawn Marion this past offseason, so it is not like I am a Shawn Marion homer. But I don't have a single problem with how he's played this season. He is not the problem. Yeah, his 3 point shooting sucks, but besides that, he's been very good.

3. What on earth took Amare so long to get it going tonight? I mean he looked absolutely horrible in the first quarter.

4. Barbosa is really going through a bad stretch.

[Catharsis]

My thoughts:

Amare played MUCH better in the 2nd half defensively. He needs to be that committed the whole time.

Dirk is a pussy and anyone who thinks he should repeat as MVP should be taken out back and bludgeoned with a shovel.

The officiating was HORRID. You can't chalk a loss like this on officiating, but it is inexcusable for the league to continue like this. There were so many bad calls, non-calls and complete incompetence that the NBA has to be ashamed. Stern needs to get off his ass and start instituting flop review. Players need to be fined for trying to deceive the officials (and with the caliber of officials in existence, they are already too confused most of the time).

There is only one chance to trade Diaw. That will be in January/February and it will be to Memphis. It will have to include the Atlanta pick and it may have to include another pick on top of that. Iavaroni might be interested in Boris enough to let it happen. And Memphis would be looking at two lottery picks in the upcoming draft.

[AlanS]

I just think a front line of Amare, Hill and Marion or Amare, Diaw, and Marion is just to small. And I think the fact that we're the worst rebounding team in the league might back my argument. You think we shouldn't play Skinner more? Damn this team to hell. Jekyll and Hyde they are

Actually, I wasn't really arguing against Skinner getting more time. I was just wondering, who do send to the bench. Grant? Bell? That's the question D'Antoni has to answer.

[INFORMER]

While I believed, and hoped, and hoped, and prayed, Doris is done!!! He just doesn't care.

Actually, I didn't mind how he played tonight. He just wasn't shooting well. But he was trying.

[cap]

Several irritating parts of the game:

The first quarter when, due to our own lack of energy, we got pasted by 17 points. This is when we lost the game. We have to play for 48 minutes, and tonight, we didn’t.

A stretch in the third quarter when Dallas went on a big run courtesy of several blown calls by the officials. I don’t want to blame the officials for the loss, but this didn’t help.

Early in the fourth quarter, when Dallas went on a big run with Nash and Hill both sitting on the bench. One of the major selling points of the Hill acquisition was that he was supposed to help us through those times when Nash is on the bench. So why were they both on the bench at the same time?

The whole game, when we gave up 19 offensive rebounds. Familiar story. We have got to get a handle on this problem. No boards, no rings.


Despite all that, we had a chance to win this game down the stretch, and just couldn’t get over the hump. Extremely frustrating. We lost a very winnable game. Just a little more attention on the defensive boards, or a little more energy in the first quarter, or a little sharper execution to start the fourth, and we would have won. A frustrating loss, but not a completely discouraging one. These should be correctable problems.

Unfortunately, “should be” doesn’t always translate to “are.”

[JediSkywalker]

I feel better about this team now. It could be a good learning experience (if Dantoni can use that knowledge). The Suns missed at least 3 FTs (LB,Marion, Nash), turned the ball over more than the Mavs, were outrebounded, suffered from some questionable ref calls, and they were still in a position to tie the game at the end.

The first quarter absolutely killed them. They had to play catch up the whole game- sounds familiar? I liked the intensity in Q2,3,4. If they keep trying, they could become very good. Now the Suns, Spurs and Mavs all have 18 wins each, but the Lakers are not far behind (just 2 GB now). They could be dangerous. It will be tougher to beat them in LA than to beat the Mavs in Dallas. I thought Shawn was great, and Nash was unbelievable, except for his final shot which was nowhere near the basket- very unlike him- and the missed FT. Raja did not shoot well- no 3's. Grant and Brian were both great, but the little things cost the Suns the game. Their defense was nonexistent in the first Q and they eventually paid for it. I hope they can learn from this experience. Boris was awful in his shooting percentage, but the good thing is he was taking the shots. Sooner or later they will start falling.

The Suns are capable of beating the Mavs, who played extremely well tonight, and they have beaten the Spurs in SA. So I feel better about this team, regardless of their 1-2 record on this road trip.

[INFORMER]

With the Suns' brass carefully looking at how the team plays during this stretch, doesn't it seem like the guys (maybe just certain guys) are playing just well enough to keep everyone together for the remainder of the season? I'm not saying anyone is doing this deliberately, though.

[scosuns]

We played well at the end. Some minor good flashes during the game, but then we fucked it up. Amare played very well at the end. There was much more effort these past two games, so that's a GREAT SIGN!(Yes, something positive!) Marion was awesome on defense. Very active, and we know that if you pressure DIrk and be aggressive with him, then he gets scared and messes up.

Now, on to two seperate points. First off, we know Mike will never play his bench. I hope Bell rests a few games. Maybe we can see a guy like Alando get some playing time. Or maybe Barbosa will get 48 minutes a game.(Mike wouldn't take any time away from poor Barbs.) But, a game against the Raptors at home, good time to give some other guys some playing time.

Second point. This team is lacking a good post guy. Although we had some decent post possessions, almost all our points were from slashing to the rim, jumpshots, foul shots, or dunks. We need a guy that is a solid post player. Pair that with Nash, and that's a mean combo because we also have the shooters on the outside thus giving us control over all three areas.

[darrkin]

How many Dunks did Doris have, the guy is a straight ass puss....We need another player that is at least 6'8 that will take it hard to the hole. We dont need him. Tucker or pretty much anyone on our bench would have been better than Doris. Also, I love Barbs as a slasher and shooting guard but we need a point guard, play Banks or Straw anyone that can make decisive fast passes. Amare is on his way back people, can ya feel it. Knees must be starting to feel better.

[JediSkywalker]

My thoughts:

Amare played MUCH better in the 2nd half defensively. He needs to be that committed the whole time.

Dirk is a pussy and anyone who thinks he should repeat as MVP should be taken out back and bludgeoned with a shovel.

The officiating was HORRID. You can't chalk a loss like this on officiating, but it is inexcusable for the league to continue like this. There were so many bad calls, non-calls and complete incompetence that the NBA has to be ashamed. Stern needs to get off his ass and start instituting flop review. Players need to be fined for trying to deceive the officials (and with the caliber of officials in existence, they are already too confused most of the time).
There is only one chance to trade Diaw. That will be in January/February and it will be to Memphis. It will have to include the Atlanta pick and it may have to include another pick on top of that. Iavaroni might be interested in Boris enough to let it happen. And Memphis would be looking at two lottery picks in the upcoming draft.

Expecting something sensible from Stern is unrealistic. Haven't we learned enough about his incompetence as the head of the NBA?

Who do you think we would get for Diaw if we traded him to Memphis?

I thought Amare played poorly in the first half but he picked up in the second.

[INFORMER]

We need a guy that is a solid post player.

The Suns have not been willing to put players in the post in a long time. Not with Penny, Q, (JJ got a few touches there), or Amare. Over the years, they've had Amare working on his jump shot, not his post game. I don't think DA believes post offense. But Amare is more than capable of scoring in the post, those his moves are not as refined as an Al Jefferson or Tim Duncan.

[Catharsis]

Sheesh! The Suns 16 road games are tied with Utah for the most in the WC. 4 teams have 14. San Antonio and the Lakers have only 11. Denver has only played 10.

[sehan]

The whole game, when we gave up 19 offensive rebounds. Familiar story. We have got to get a handle on this problem.


1. Play the players you have - Skinner. Hack I might even settle for occasional Mark showing. We should really call and ask Kerr, "has Mark surprised you yet"?

2. Trade Doris for someone who cares.

3. Team rebound. You know why Barbosa gets down the court the fastest, cause the fucker cherry picks. 04 - 05 season we had our guards, Q and JJ crashing the boards to help out with the small team concept. Ever since then, its like "Amare go get the board and throw it so I can score". If you guys recall, a lot of 04 - 05 fast breaks came from secondary breaks with the big man running and guards setting up on the 3s. I am of the opinion, we'll score a lot easier if we team rebound with guards and have Amare and Marion running out on the breaks, with guards trailing with for 3 point lines.

[JediSkywalker]

We played well at the end. Some minor good flashes during the game, but then we fucked it up. Amare played very well at the end. There was much more effort these past two games, so that's a GREAT SIGN!(Yes, something positive!) Marion was awesome on defense. Very active, and we know that if you pressure DIrk and be aggressive with him, then he gets scared and messes up.

Now, on to two seperate points. First off, we know Mike will never play his bench. I hope Bell rests a few games. Maybe we can see a guy like Alando get some playing time. Or maybe Barbosa will get 48 minutes a game.(Mike wouldn't take any time away from poor Barbs.) But, a game against the Raptors at home, good time to give some other guys some playing time.

Second point. This team is lacking a good post guy. Although we had some decent post possessions, almost all our points were from slashing to the rim, jumpshots, foul shots, or dunks. We need a guy that is a solid post player. Pair that with Nash, and that's a mean combo because we also have the shooters on the outside thus giving us control over all three areas.

That guy was supposed to be Amare. It works sometimes and not at other times. The hope was that Nash to Amare would be our trump card. It is not happening because Amare keeps getting in foul trouble. If we could get a solid post player, as you suggested, the Suns would be tough to beat. They have the talent and the energy. Just a little is missing. I hope Kerr realizes that and takes action this season.

[scosuns]

How many Dunks did Doris have, the guy is a straight ass puss....We need another player that is at least 6'8 that will take it hard to the hole. We dont need him. Tucker or pretty much anyone on our bench would have been better than Doris. Also, I love Barbs as a slasher and shooting guard but we need a point guard, play Banks or Straw anyone that can make decisive fast passes. Amare is on his way back people, can ya feel it. Knees must be starting to feel better.

I admit before this game I focused on Diaw only on the offensive end. After watching this game and also focusing on his defense, I only get more and more angry at him. Maybe its because he doesn't have the same role as he used to, but for the money he is making, changes somewhere need to be made. Whether its trading Diaw or whatever. But, this guy is like some nice person out there with no mean or caring bone in his body.

I would love to see Banks, DJ, or Tucker get some time. Especially now that Bell might have hurt his ankle(Although we know that Mike will play him because playing anyone else is wrong). So, maybe we do see an end-of-the-bench guy get some playing time in an upcoming game.

[Catharsis]

Expecting something sensible from Stern is unrealistic. Haven't we learned enough about his incompetence as the head of the NBA?

Who do you think we would get for Diaw if we traded him to Memphis?

I thought Amare played poorly in the first half but he picked up in the second.

I know, I know...and Stern probably thinks the talk of flopping is all palaver.

There's only one person you try to acquire from Memphis: PAU!

[JediSkywalker]

I think one of the announcers said it best, if Suns play the way they did most of thesecond half the entire game they would be ahead. Positives though are that Amare finally looked like Amare....Also I know they beat us, but im still not impressed by Mavs...thats as good as they can play and they barely beat us after we half assed it for a 1/2. Its gonna be Suns, Spurs, Golden State, and Lakers in West that are the biggest threats. Lakers could be scary if a rumored trade goes through to give them Kidd. I thought we found some of our pop in second half, just a little too late. Also Coach went with Barbs wayyyyyyy toooooo lonngggg, Saucy is haveing a field day right now im sure as Barbs did pretty much kill us. Also it would be nice if Raja could actually shoot the ball when open and make a few easy shots. We need another shooter, period. Isnt there a Euro out there that can hit threes automatically. BTW, Everyone still want to get rid of Stat?? To me, I'll get rid of Nash before Stat.

Good luck. Let us see how many games this team can win without Nash.

I agree about Barbs. I would have liked to see more of Hill.

[INFORMER]

Sheesh! The Suns 16 road games are tied with Utah for the most in the WC. 4 teams have 14. San Antonio and the Lakers have only 11. Denver has only played 10.

Do you think David Stern tweaked the schedule so that the Suns play more road games than home games? I bet if checked it really closely, probably 70% of the Suns games are on the road this season. DIABOLICAL! :roll:

[JediSkywalker]

After watching the last few games (actually even before that) I am happy that Marion was not traded. I don't know what this team would have done without his defense.

[AlanS]

FYI, Alonzo Mourning tore a leg ligament, they say he'll be out for several months. The NY Knix now have a better record than the Heat. Miami was beaten tonight by ATL, who may well replace the Heat as a playoff team this season.

[scosuns]

[/B]

That guy was supposed to be Amare. It works sometimes and not at other times. The hope was that Nash to Amare would be our trump card. It is not happening because Amare keeps getting in foul trouble. If we could get a solid post player, as you suggested, the Suns would be tough to beat. They have the talent and the energy. Just a little is missing. I hope Kerr realizes that and takes action this season.

Yeah. And why is that the Spurs have won their titles? Besides the defense. They have a post presence their. Look how many easy points Duncan got on Monday. He wasn't a freak of nature during the game. But he was there in the post, just sitting there putting them off the glass and such. I'm not saying thats solely why they have won their titles, but, they have good defense and have had that good post player. The Suns need that.

[sehan]

Do you think David Stern tweaked the schedule so that the Suns play more road games than home games? I bet if checked it really closely, probably 70% of the Suns games are on the road this season. DIABOLICAL! :roll:

hehehehehe - you sound like reasoning is standard prerequisite for the board or something.

[INFORMER]

Also, the Jazz lost AGAIN tonight. They're one game over .500. I have no idea what's going on with that team. Coversely, the Blazers won AGAIN. And they had been winning without LaMarcus Aldridge. Remember when alot of us were applauding how they were building their team, then some got their panties all twisted up saying the Blazers would be a lotto team for years to come? Oden goes down, and they STILL might make the playoffs, or at least come close. I like their team, I like what they're doing, and I hope they do continue to improve.

[JediSkywalker]

Yeah. And why is that the Spurs have won their titles? Besides the defense. They have a post presence their. Look how many easy points Duncan got on Monday. He wasn't a freak of nature during the game. But he was there in the post, just sitting there putting them off the glass and such. I'm not saying thats solely why they have won their titles, but, they have good defense and have had that good post player. The Suns need that.

Another thing the Suns are missing is 3-point shooting. Both the Spurs and Mavs are excellent 3-point shooting teams. The Suns used to be, until last year. They are going to need both- a post presence and 3-point shooters (like Terry, Nowitzki, and many of the Spurs).

[INFORMER]

hehehehehe - you sound like reasoning is standard prerequisite for the board or something.

:wink: Just teasing. Honestly, I prefer having a lot of road games early in the season, and load up on home games to finish out the season.

[Catharsis]

Do you think David Stern tweaked the schedule so that the Suns play more road games than home games? I bet if checked it really closely, probably 70% of the Suns games are on the road this season. DIABOLICAL! :roll:

I think it gives a false representation of a team when their schedule is front loaded so heavy on the road. I mean look at Boston. Not only have they only played 10 road games (btw, when the Celtics play their 11th road game, the Suns will have played #17 and #18 on the road), but they've only played I think 7 teams with a record over .500. The Suns month of December has 4 games at home and 11 games on the road. They won't get to really make it up until February.

[JediSkywalker]

Also, the Jazz lost AGAIN tonight. They're one game over .500. I have no idea what's going on with that team. Coversely, the Blazers won AGAIN. And they had been winning without LaMarcus Aldridge. Remember when alot of us were applauding how they were building their team, then some got their panties all twisted up saying the Blazers would be a lotto team for years to come? Oden goes down, and they STILL might make the playoffs, or at least come close. I like their team, I like what they're doing, and I hope they do continue to improve.


The Suns contributed to their success by donating 1st round draft picks 2 year in a row, but it seems they are using their talent wisely, unlike the Suns where the bench is merely to satisfy the 13 player requirement.

The Jazz has injuries to Okur and one more player (I forgot the name), but they are definitely having some internal problems. That makes the Suns win over them much less impressive.

[Catharsis]

FYI, Alonzo Mourning tore a leg ligament, they say he'll be out for several months. The NY Knix now have a better record than the Heat. Miami was beaten tonight by ATL, who may well replace the Heat as a playoff team this season.

There we go. Trade Diaw and the Atlanta pick for Shaq. :-o:oops:

[scosuns]

Another thing the Suns are missing is 3-point shooting. Both the Spurs and Mavs are excellent 3-point shooting teams. The Suns used to be, until last year. They are going to need both- a post presence and 3-point shooters (like Terry, Nowitzki, and many of the Spurs).

I would say our bigger concern right now is a post presence. We still have guys who can jack up the three and make it. Guys like Bell, Nash, Barbosa, and occasionally Hill, can all make the 3.

We don't have a solid or even decent post presence. But yes, our 3 point shooting is not what it has been in the past.

[misteradiant]

i thought the refs did everything they could most of the game to give the mavs points.

there was a series of plays around the 7-9 minute mark that made me yell that the suns were making it look like the mavs were dancing all around them like they were a slug and the mavs were butterflies. i switched the channel and proclaimed the game over. i watched a ghost hunters rerun for a few minutes. when i came back out of some perverse pleasure only another suns fan can understand, i caught amare making offensive and defensive play after play for some of the most spectacular basketball i had ever seen performed in my life. he is so immensely talented. it's too bad he didn't bring that kind of hustle all game. but did you notice something? didn't his start when steve began to feed him? or did steve start to feed him when he made a great defensive play? anybody want to watch their dvr/tivo for the final few minutes and tell us how that worked? i bet everybody here would be interested to see how it went down. i'm to jacked up on adrenalin to recall and i didn't record the game.

with complaints about the numerous points the refs gave the mavs notwithstanding, this game was lost at the end of the first quarter. when the suns start out like that, the end is nigh. they will have to turn it up so high to even get close when they realize that if they had at least a little madness about them to start, they wouldn't have to over-exert at the end. the spectacular moments we witness when the suns finally get aggressive will be great, but still too late. when the suns start out hot and grab a first quarter lead, they seem to win. when they do the opposite, they lose. anybody else notice that? can i get an amen?

speaking of magic, i'd like to punch boris diaw in the mouth and say he cheated me. 20 minutes for 4 rebounds, 3 turnovers, 4 fouls, 4 points and a blocked shot for a -17 rating of diminished returns for the $110,000 he was paid for this game tonight.

skinner had an abysmal game but with no lack of trying. he was all hustle and was maybe a little out of synch. in 11 minutes he managed 2 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 points and a turnover. his +/- was -11. grant had a rough night. we didn't take nearly as many 3's as we should have, hitting 43% at 3 and 7. we attempt 23 a game right now? what gives with 7? they didn't chase us off that much.

back to amare. he was 3 of 12 at one point and still managed to be 50% at only 9 of 18 by making six incredible shots and dunks in a row. he missed that one that went to dallas and went on a tear. i just don't see us trading that. nobody comes close and no set of players come close. if we could only get him to do it every game like garnett, we wouldn't give a stain on a pig's snout about boris.

i feel bad that steve threw an air ball up at the end. guess he can't do it every time. even jordan missed his share of those type of shots. steve had a +10 with 18 assists, 5 turnovers and 21 points on 9 of 15 shooting. he had a good game. it started good with his shooting but the team just didn't start with the effort needed to beat dallas. it look too long to turn it on. it was greater than dallas' effort, but again, it came too late.

too late....

please guys and gals, i'm asking nicely, let us not turn the board into relentless discussions of trade scenarios for the next two days. they never happen. they are a waste of time. we aren't trading anyone, no matter what stress you or a sports writer put the team under. please. it is our only hope of survival. if you agree, then just ignore the trade scenarios that will happen anyway because if history proves anything, it's that people are stupid. don't invite discussion with something you deem unworthy. that's what i try to do. it keeps me here having fun. hopefully there are others here having fun, knowing that this is just a game, however important we try to make it.

[Uncle_Gene]

Rebounds Dal 49 (19 Offensive) PHO 35 (7 Offensive)

Turnovers Dal 16 PHO 18

3 Ptr's Dal 6-16 PHO 3-7

Pho - Skinner: 12 min - 2 pt, 3 rebs, 2 stl, 1 foul

Too, too many 2nd chance point opportunities for Dallas. D'Antoni should've put Skinner in the game earlier to stop Dampier from getting all those boards.

Way too many turnovers, no further comment on that.

Dallas did a good job of stopping the Suns from getting mutiple three point tries. If the Suns don't get 3's they don't win.

Like I've said before, Coach D needs to play a traditional lineup. I don't care if it's Sean Marks at starting center and Skinner backing him up. Let Hill backup Nash and Barbosa play backup shooting guard. Teams know how to play the Suns. Bottomline !

[Catharsis]

Another thing the Suns are missing is 3-point shooting. Both the Spurs and Mavs are excellent 3-point shooting teams. The Suns used to be, until last year. They are going to need both- a post presence and 3-point shooters (like Terry, Nowitzki, and many of the Spurs).

Actually, the Suns are #7 in 3pt percentage and #3 in attempts per game. The are also #3 in makes per game. Dallas just did a good job of keeping them off the line. That's part of why Amare was able to do what he did...and why the Suns had over 50% of their points from inside the paint tonight.

[sehan]

I would say our bigger concern right now is a post presence. We still have guys who can jack up the three and make it. Guys like Bell, Nash, Barbosa, and occasionally Hill, can all make the 3.

Have you seen the last 5 games? Granted Nash will get his eventually. Not sure if Bell will come back to it though. Something about him physically is not right and not sure if he will be right this year.



We don't have a solid or even decent post presence. But yes, our 3 point shooting is not what it has been in the past.

Ok what post presence is out there that we can get, that would be even remotely good as Amare?

[JackArse]

it's a regular season game, at this point, it means nothing, just like the spurs game meant pretty much nothing. the refs bailed out the mavs when it counted, but not the reason for the loss, but sure as hell didn't help.

also, spurs lost to memphis. so..

[AlanS]

The +/- story:

Nash +10 36 mins
Marion +6 37 mins
Stoudemire +6 34 mins
Bell +2 35 mins
Hill -1 36 mins
Barbosa - 10 27 mins
Skinner -11 11 mins
Diaw -17 20 mins

I pray Raja isn't hurt too bad...

[sehan]

That being said..... there is MR sighting.

[INFORMER]

The Suns contributed to their success by donating 1st round draft picks 2 year in a row

You don't have to remind me.


i thought the refs did everything they could most of the game to give the mavs points.

Sorry MR, but :roll:

[Uncle_Gene]

the refs bailed out the mavs when it counted, but not the reason for the loss, but sure as hell didn't help.

No doubt ! They got a lot of call on flops tonight.

[cap]

Stern needs to get off his ass and start instituting flop review. Players need to be fined for trying to deceive the officials (and with the caliber of officials in existence, they are already too confused most of the time).

One of the commentators — I think it was JVG — suggested during the game that officials ought to study personnel, know who the habitual floppers are, and never give them the benefit of the doubt, even when they deserve it. I agree with this.

If you flop once in your career, and it’s down the stretch of Game 7 of the Finals, and you get away with it, well, congratulations, you’ve earned it. But if you flop routinely, you deserve to have it backfire.

[AlanS]

Nowitzki takes control to help Mavs hold of Suns' charge
Suns 105, Mavericks 108

DALLAS (AP) -- Dirk Nowitzki wasn't about to let Steve Nash and the Phoenix Suns get away with another win in Dallas.

Nowitzki scored 31 points, including the Mavericks' final eight, giving Dallas just enough to hold off the Suns 108-105 Wednesday night in yet another intense, entertaining game between the Western Conference rivals.

Dallas led by 17 at the end of the first quarter and Phoenix never recovered, but the Suns sure came close. Even after trailing by 14 with 7:10 left, they had a chance to tie it in the closing seconds but Nash shot an airball on a 3-pointer. There was no defender in his way, but he wasn't fully set after shaking Josh Howard to get open following a cross-court pass from Shawn Marion.

Nowitzki had his second straight 30-point outing and fourth in the last eight games. It's no coincidence the Mavericks have been surging since he got rolling. And this might've been their best performance all season.

The Mavs have won four straight and six of seven, enough to tighten up the top of the Western Conference standings. Dallas is 18-9, narrowly behind Phoenix (18-8) and San Antonio (18-7).

The Suns were coming off handing the Spurs their first home loss, but didn't get much carryover. They're in a 2-4 skid since a five-game winning streak.

This was the first meeting between Nowitzki and Nash since the big German was named MVP, which gave good buddies the last three awards. It also was their first meeting in Dallas since a double-overtime thriller in March, when Amare Stoudemire scored 41 and Nash scored Phoenix's final 10 points to snap the Mavericks' 23-game home winning streak.

Stoudemire started 2-of-10, but found a groove down the stretch, scoring seven of Phoenix's last nine. He was 5-of-5 from the field and 4-of-4 from the line in the fourth quarter and finished with 25 points, eight rebounds and four blocks.

Nash had 21 points, but only three in the final period. He also had 18 assists. He made both 3-pointers before the final shot. Shawn Marion had 23 points and 10 rebounds.

Grant Hill had only nine points and four assists, but they included a dunk over 7-footer DeSagana Diop and a perfect lob for a buzzer-beater by Marion at the end of the first half. Hill also defused a three-on-one fast break at the end of the first quarter.

Howard had 23 points and seven rebounds, and Devin Harris scored all 21 of his points over the first three quarters. Erick Dampier had eight points -- all in the first quarter -- plus 10 rebounds and five blocks. Nowitzki grabbed nine rebounds and Jason Terry had 13 points.

Although Dallas led 37-20 after one quarter, Phoenix didn't go away.

The Suns got within 64-63 early in the third quarter on a drive by Nash in which he spun backward and fed Marion for a dunk. Then the Mavs came back with seven straight points. Soon after, Stoudemire made consecutive baskets, the second a wide-open dunk he savored by hanging on the rim. He walked away pounding his chest, screaming, "Let's go!"

It was like that all night -- intense, exciting and even physical.

A Nash-to-Marion alley oop for Phoenix's first basket set the tone. Both teams pushed the pace early, probably tempting many East Coast television viewers to consider staying up late to keep watching.

"It's great," Mavs coach Avery Johnson said before tipoff. "You should really want to play against teams that have had a lot of success."

Dampier got a flagrant foul for clobbering Marion on a dunk attempt and Marion later shoved Nowitzki in the back as he was walking away during a dead ball.

When Phoenix's Raja Bell got his first foul midway through the second quarter, but it was announced as his second, he screamed, "Get that [expletive] right, [expletive]!" to the scorer's table. Seconds later, he came back smiling, with hands clasped as if in prayer, and apologized. Still, it was that kind of night.

The action even extended into the stands as a guy in a Phoenix jersey was dragged out by police late in the fourth quarter.

Game notes

The Suns' lowest-scoring first quarter of the season was partly because they had six turnovers and the Mavs had none. Well, Phoenix fixed that at the start of the second quarter, forcing turnovers on Dallas' first three possessions, turning the first two into fast break baskets. ... The Spurs released plans to retire Avery Johnson's jersey after their Dec. 22 game against the Clippers. Although now coaching their top rival, Johnson is the Spurs' all-time assist leader among other accolades. His No. 6 will be the sixth number to hang from the rafters. Gov. Rick Perry and David Robinson will be among the participants. ... The Mavs often have humorous homemade film clips during timeouts. Several were Nash-and-Nowitzki-themed, including a Star Wars bit in which Nowitzki's character said, "We could've ruled the NBA together."

[JediSkywalker]

It was a fun game to watch, regardless of the final outcome. First Q was not fun, but I knew the Suns will come back. Too bad Steve did not make that last 3-pointer or we could have watched more of this.

I think out of the 8 Suns that played, only Diaw had a bad game, but he was at least shooting. His turnover late in the 3rd Q was costly though. It brought the Mavs back in the game. It just went the Mavs' way tonight. Next time it could go the Suns' way.

[JustWinBaby]

The news thread yesterday was littered with trade Amare scenarios, what a bunch of fucking morons. You same idiots probably were gloating today during the first quarter when Dampier basically ran over and around him. Within the same 48 minute game he turned into superman down the stretch and almost help us pull out a win. His numbers and impact in 4th quarters has got to be off the charts. It really looks like he is playing soft in the first half due to potential foul troubles going forward. OUR PROBLEM IS NOT AMARE OR HIS DEFENSE.

Our main problems right now is that Coach D has all of the rotations screwed up and is afraid to change them because he might piss someone off.

IMO Barbosa immediately goes into the starting lineup and Bell goes to the bench. Bell does not deserve to go to the bench but it would be better for the team. Barbosa is never allowed to play if Nash is not on the court. If Nash gets hurt Barbosa is ordered to join him on the IR hurt or not, unless we somehow acquire another point guard of competence. I really would like to give Banks another chance to play the point while Nash sits or bring DJ back from the D league and give him a chance. I can't stand watching Barbosa fuck things up every night. He is scorer par excellance and that is it. Wake the fuck up D'Antoni.

Doris needs to go to the bench permanently never to return (Unfortunately he needs to play so we can trade him prior to the trade deadline). We will never win a Championship with his non passionate ass playing for this team. HE MUST GO. All of you Doris lovers are full of crap. You actually think we would be better with his lazy ass playing in place of Amare. What a Joke.

Amare, Marion, Hill, Nash, Skinner and Raja are the only ones safe in my book.

Barbosa can stay under my restrictions unless he is required in the deal to get what we need.

Kerr needs to call PJ Brown now and have him get in shape for his January 2008 return to the league with your PHoenix Suns. This would give no reason to need Boris's ass anymore and Amare can go to the 4 permanently and Hill can slide to the 2 or the bench. Bell and Barbosa can both sit unless called upon. We might even be able to give Tucker some playing time, he tore up the D league and plays with passion.

WE GOT OUTREBOUNDED AGAIN - THIS TIME - 49 TO 35. That is way about our normal deficit going in of 5.6. It we even break even on the boards, we blow these guys out of the gym.

After tonights game and the ass chewing Coach D put on LB - I question whether or not he is safe.

PS: Marion player his ass off, actually had Dirk under pretty good control until Doris guarded him for awhile and let him get his shot going.

[ShelC]

Start Boris at the 5!

[sose]

Argh!! Trade Everyone!!

[SwingMan]

The news thread yesterday was littered with trade Amare scenarios, what a bunch of fucking morons. You same idiots probably were gloating today during the first quarter when Dampier basically ran over and around him. Within the same 48 minute game he turned into superman down the stretch and almost help us pull out a win. His numbers and impact in 4th quarters has got to be off the charts. It really looks like he is playing soft in the first half due to potential foul troubles going forward. OUR PROBLEM IS NOT AMARE OR HIS DEFENSE.

Our main problems right now is that Coach D has all of the rotations screwed up and is afraid to change them because he might piss someone off.

IMO Barbosa immediately goes into the starting lineup and Bell goes to the bench. Bell does not deserve to go to the bench but it would be better for the team. Barbosa is never allowed to play if Nash is not on the court. If Nash gets hurt Barbosa is ordered to join him on the IR hurt or not, unless we somehow acquire another point guard of competence. I really would like to give Banks another chance to play the point while Nash sits or bring DJ back from the D league and give him a chance. I can't stand watching Barbosa fuck things up every night. He is scorer par excellance and that is it. Wake the fuck up D'Antoni.

Doris needs to go to the bench permanently never to return (Unfortunately he needs to play so we can trade him prior to the trade deadline). We will never win a Championship with his non passionate ass playing for this team. HE MUST GO. All of you Doris lovers are full of crap. You actually think we would be better with his lazy ass playing in place of Amare. What a Joke.

Amare, Marion, Hill, Nash, Skinner and Raja are the only ones safe in my book.

Barbosa can stay under my restrictions unless he is required in the deal to get what we need.

Kerr needs to call PJ Brown now and have him get in shape for his January 2008 return to the league with your PHoenix Suns. This would give no reason to need Boris's ass anymore and Amare can go to the 4 permanently and Hill can slide to the 2 or the bench. Bell and Barbosa can both sit unless called upon. We might even be able to give Tucker some playing time, he tore up the D league and plays with passion.

WE GOT OUTREBOUNDED AGAIN - THIS TIME - 49 TO 35. That is way about our normal deficit going in of 5.6. It we even break even on the boards, we blow these guys out of the gym.

After tonights game and the ass chewing Coach D put on LB - I question whether or not he is safe.

PS: Marion player his ass off, actually had Dirk under pretty good control until Doris guarded him for awhile and let him get his shot going.

Post. Of. The. Night.

Disagree on Babs on the non-keeper front, though. The kid hasn't been right since he's been put back into 6th man mode. As a starter to start the season while Raja was trying to heal, Babs was kicking ass and taking names - he was in one hell of a rhythm. It's beyond rational reasoning as to why D'Antoni's been so blind to that fact - by benching him, Babs was thrown totally out of whack.

Raja ain't playing on Saturday - watch & see how Babs does back in the starting 5.

[sose]

We need to establish the 12 step program for over-reactors anonymous..

[SwingMan]

Uh-oh.

Sose has got his dander up..... ;)

[JediSkywalker]

The news thread yesterday was littered with trade Amare scenarios, what a bunch of fucking morons. You same idiots probably were gloating today during the first quarter when Dampier basically ran over and around him. Within the same 48 minute game he turned into superman down the stretch and almost help us pull out a win. His numbers and impact in 4th quarters has got to be off the charts. It really looks like he is playing soft in the first half due to potential foul troubles going forward. OUR PROBLEM IS NOT AMARE OR HIS DEFENSE.

Our main problems right now is that Coach D has all of the rotations screwed up and is afraid to change them because he might piss someone off.


Amare, Marion, Hill, Nash, Skinner and Raja are the only ones safe in my book.

Barbosa can stay under my restrictions unless he is required in the deal to get what we need.

Kerr needs to call PJ Brown now and have him get in shape for his January 2008 return to the league with your PHoenix Suns. This would give no reason to need Boris's ass anymore and Amare can go to the 4 permanently and Hill can slide to the 2 or the bench. Bell and Barbosa can both sit unless called upon. We might even be able to give Tucker some playing time, he tore up the D league and plays with passion.


.

You should be ashamed of yourself for making such an accusation. Suns fans gloating because Amare was completely outplayed in the 1st Q? It cost us the game eventually. No Suns fan can take delight in the Suns falling behind. Amare needs to put full effort throughout the game, not just in the the second half. I am not saying that is the reason to trade him, but he needs to play hard in the 1st Q too.

I don't think PJ is he panacea for the Suns rebounding woes. This team can rebound effectively, if they put the effort into it. We have seen it again and again. I would rather not see PJ on this team. The guy has not played in months; we don't know what shape he is in. He is 38 years old. He will not last very long in a high speed offense. We need an active player through a trade, during this season. I don't mind losing the Atlanta pick at this point. If we could package it with Banks and Diaw, may be we could get a decent post player. Shaq is too old. I may like to get Bynum, but I doubt the Lakers will trade him.

[JustWinBaby]

Post. Of. The. Night.

Disagree on Babs on the non-keeper front, though. The kid hasn't been right since he's been put back into 6th man mode. As a starter to start the season while Raja was trying to heal, Babs was kicking ass and taking names - he was in one hell of a rhythm. It's beyond rational reasoning as to why D'Antoni's been so blind to that fact - by benching him, Babs was thrown totally out of whack.

Raja ain't playing on Saturday - watch & see how Babs does back in the starting 5.

Swing

The only reason I would have ever traded Barbosa or would trade him now would be for something very special. I think he is a hell of a value for what he does best - score the ball.

Raja needs to see this as well. He needs to take one for the team and go to the bench after he gets back healthy. We have got off to some pretty rotten starts of late and always seem to be fighting an uphill battle. I believe when Barbosa was in the starting lineup we had a series of 40 + point first quarters. I can see that happening again and what is what so wrong with having the 2nd unit be a defensive one rather than one watching Barbosa try to direct traffic like a scared little kid.

I really would like to see Banks get some minutes if Raja is gone for awhile or even if he doesn't miss a game.

I really find it hard to watch Doris anymore without getting totally pissed.

[sose]

Uh-oh.

Sose has got his dander up..... ;)

sose is 2.5 sheets to the wind, and cannot go to bed because the ghetto bird is whirling around downtown LA like a buzzard in the desert waiting for a javelina to stumble and submit to the extreme conditions of an Arizona summer..

[JustWinBaby]

You should be ashamed of yourself for making such an accusation. Suns fans gloating because Amare was completely outplayed in the 1st Q? It cost us the game eventually. No Suns fan can take delight in the Suns falling behind. Amare needs to put full effort throughout the game, not just in the the second half. I am not saying that is the reason to trade him, but he needs to play hard in the 1st Q too.

I don't think PJ is he panacea for the Suns rebounding woes. This team can rebound effectively, if they put the effort into it. We have seen it again and again. I would rather not see PJ on this team. The guy has not played in months; we don't know what shape he is in. He is 38 years old. He will not last very long in a high speed offense. We need an active player through a trade, during this season. I don't mind losing the Atlanta pick at this point. If we could package it with Banks and Diaw, may be we could get a decent post player. Shaq is too old. I may like to get Bynum, but I doubt the Lakers will trade him.

You must have been one of those wanting to trade Amare Yesterday -

If you were you should be ashamed of yourself - I ain't ashamed at all for accosting all of those idiots.

The reason - there is no way you are going to get anything in return for Amare that would even closely resemble what he provides for this team. That being a dominent scorer in the paint. Some of the trades folks were suggesting in that thread were literally idiotic.

You can question PJ all you want but..........

He is available and can be had for the right price ......

If you think you are going to get a reliable post player by trading Boris and Banks .... you are sadly mistaken. I wish we could and would support it 100000% but it ain't happening.

Unfortunately we will have to beg someone to take either one of them.

[jkalldaway]

The following are D'Antoni's quotes. To me it really sounds like a guy who is trying to convince some people to keep the team together:


Suns Head Coach D'Antoni

“I thought [it was] a great game. I thought our intensity – especially after the first quarter – picked up and I thought it was wild and willy out there. Bodies were flying all over the place, both teams played hard and well, and it seemed like last year or our past battles. Give it to them, they won this one, and I don’t resent to play a little bit better but I’m pretty pleased in the way we played.” (On whether the first-quarter deficit was too much to overcome)
“Well, we got into it a couple of times and you’ve got to give them credit, too. They were the aggressors at the first of the game then we picked it up and we came all the way back and couldn’t quite get over the hump and made some turnovers that were costly but they kept battling and that’s all you can ask for. This is December, this just one game and I’m pretty pleased with the toughness that demonstrated, especially in the last three quarters.”
(On the disappointing start)
“Darn, it’s hard. Y’all can write what it is you want to, but they’re battling out there. There’s grown men out there battling, and these guys are good. Obviously we didn’t quite have enough juice at first, or they had more, but then we adjusted and we battled all the way down to the end and that’s all you can ask for.”
(On a tough third-quarter stretch)
“Yeah, little bit, yeah, but we scored 105, we shoot 52% and that should be enough and we didn’t win it enough tonight. They hit the timely shots, we didn’t and they stayed on their shooters, we were dunking the ball, but just couldn’t quite get over the hump and it comes down to big plays and they made a couple of better plays than we did.”

[JustWinBaby]

Start Boris at the 5!

You have to be joking right.

That's right

You also want to trade Amare for a bag of peanuts so poor Doris can get her game back together like she had a couple of years ago before that Safari trip and his insistance on playing for the French team rather than joining Nash and Grant Hill for informal work outs this off season to make our team better. Oh and that was after she started receiving the $45 Million salary and could not afford the insurance payment herself that the Suns demanded probaly due to the Mascara Bill she ran up in some fancy Paris Department Store.

Doris is a waste of time

The only day I will be happy is the day she is traded. Unfortunately I ain't goin to be happy anytime soon.

[JustWinBaby]

The following are D'Antoni's quotes. To me it really sounds like a guy who is trying to convince some people to keep the team together:


Suns Head Coach D'Antoni

“I thought [it was] a great game. I thought our intensity – especially after the first quarter – picked up and I thought it was wild and willy out there. Bodies were flying all over the place, both teams played hard and well, and it seemed like last year or our past battles. Give it to them, they won this one, and I don’t resent to play a little bit better but I’m pretty pleased in the way we played.” (On whether the first-quarter deficit was too much to overcome)
“Well, we got into it a couple of times and you’ve got to give them credit, too. They were the aggressors at the first of the game then we picked it up and we came all the way back and couldn’t quite get over the hump and made some turnovers that were costly but they kept battling and that’s all you can ask for. This is December, this just one game and I’m pretty pleased with the toughness that demonstrated, especially in the last three quarters.”
(On the disappointing start)
“Darn, it’s hard. Y’all can write what it is you want to, but they’re battling out there. There’s grown men out there battling, and these guys are good. Obviously we didn’t quite have enough juice at first, or they had more, but then we adjusted and we battled all the way down to the end and that’s all you can ask for.”
(On a tough third-quarter stretch)
“Yeah, little bit, yeah, but we scored 105, we shoot 52% and that should be enough and we didn’t win it enough tonight. They hit the timely shots, we didn’t and they stayed on their shooters, we were dunking the ball, but just couldn’t quite get over the hump and it comes down to big plays and they made a couple of better plays than we did.”

JK

Coach D - rarely throws anyone under the bus to the press. I respect him a lot for that.

However he has spoken out about Boris recently and expect another meeting of the minds after this game about him being a non factor again , actually a minus factor.

[1tinsoldier]

the refs bailed out the mavs when it counted, but not the reason for the loss, but sure as hell didn't help.

all true.

1. The team spirit broke down after some particularly bad calls in the 1st and 3rd periods.
2. Credit the Suns for almost stealing this one.
3. The Mavs showed their weak underbelly again when the Suns turned up the heat.
4. How many more times are we going to get burned early in games by our weak interior D leaving the Suns to scramble to get back in it, before we get some real help for Amare (and how long will it be before he gets super cranky about being a power forward playing full time as a center).

[Mori_Chu]

We don't win because we are no longer trading 2 points for 3. We are almost always shooting midrange shots and the occasional fastbreak. The 3s just don't rain down like they used to; that's why we don't pull out ahead in a lot of these games.

Amare is playing just fine. We just need to start getting him the damn ball. A lot.

To be honest, I think the best thing about this game was that Raja got hurt (assuming it's not serious, under 10 games out). Why? Because Mike D has our guard rotation all messed up. Barbosa should be starting, Raja off the bench, and we should have a 4th guard in the rotation (either Banks or DJ). I honestly think Banks earned a better shot than he's gotten this year. He is getting screwed. What can the guy do?

My proposal is, you sit Banks and DJ down and you tell them, listen, if you play D and hit 3s, I *will* play you. And whoever hits their 3s better in practice or in the game gets the minutes. We need another 3 point gunner in the worst way, and we need another guard to take the pressure off the Nash/Barbs/Bell 3-headed monster, especially now that Bell is probably out.

[Mori_Chu]

BTW: Sad to see Zo Mourning go down. That's probably the end of his career, right? I mean they said he needs 6 months to heal, and there's no way the Heat are making the playoffs. And why would he come back to a team that sucks so much?

The Heat are just awful. I knew they'd miss the playoffs this year (as said in the Predictions thread), but I did not think they would be THIS bad. Shaq reminds me of Ewing that year in Seattle where he was so completely done, you could stick a fork in him.

[illmatic]

Well on a positive note, at least the Spurs have lost 2 in a row now. They lost to Memphis lastnight with a last minute shot by Rudy Gay.

[Amarvelous]

We need an active player through a trade, during this season. I don't mind losing the Atlanta pick at this point. If we could package it with Banks and Diaw, may be we could get a decent post player. Shaq is too old. I may like to get Bynum, but I doubt the Lakers will trade him.

NFV, usually I like your commentary but you can't be serious about this...

How's Steve Kerr going to sell this one?

"Hey Kup, I know you wouldn't give up Bynum to get Jason Kidd, and I know you will never make a trade that might possibly help our team, which is currently only a couple of games ahead of you in the standings, but how about you give him to us for our two worst contracts and a mid-first round draft pick?"

And it's not just LA...

Boris & Banks are untradeable unless you throw Stat or Nash in with them.

The Atl pick has plummeted in market value with their team's early success. In fact, due to the trade with Seattle it is more valuable to us than to potential trade partners who still have a first rounder next year. It may still be enough to pair with Banks in salary dumping move, but that's it for now. And that wouldn't help our team whatsoever.

I still think Doris could do well as a primary option in the post. He could thrive on a team like Chicago if Skiles would ever play him there. But, realistically, the guy is stuck here for the foreseeable future.

[ShelC]

We don't win because we are no longer trading 2 points for 3. We are almost always shooting midrange shots and the occasional fastbreak. The 3s just don't rain down like they used to; that's why we don't pull out ahead in a lot of these games.

Thank you...ive been saying that all year. Look at the stats from the game. We shot 52%!!! They shot 46%. However, we went 3-7 from 3pt while they went 6 of 16.

Amare is playing just fine. We just need to start getting him the damn ball. A lot.

Amare was vintage when i was watching the final 4 minutes. But he seems to be able to turn that on and off depending on the situation. In the big games when the score is close, he can really step up and make tough shots for us. He can get fouls, get to the line and really hurt the other team. But why cant get start the game like that? Why wont we establish that early in the game to maybe get a Damp or Dirk sent to the bnech with 2 quick fouls in the 1st or early 2nd qtr? You hate to say it, but Amare feeds off of his offense. He had that bounce in his step, he was scoring in the paint over guys, dunking the ball and getting ot the line, and that led to big rebounds and a huge block down the stretch. You never want to cater to a player to the detriment of the team, but we really need to start tweaking the offense to get Amare more consistent touches in the paint.

To be honest, I think the best thing about this game was that Raja got hurt (assuming it's not serious, under 10 games out). Why? Because Mike D has our guard rotation all messed up. Barbosa should be starting, Raja off the bench, and we should have a 4th guard in the rotation (either Banks or DJ). I honestly think Banks earned a better shot than he's gotten this year. He is getting screwed. What can the guy do?

I dont know that a player getting injured can be the best thing about a game. I understand what youre saying tho Mori. Ive been critical of Barbs in the past for sure. I dont think hes a legit starting 2guard in this league. But for this team, and this point in time, he may be best suited starting. He would give us that speed and energy we've lacked to start games. When he started early in the year, his numbers were great and we were playing well. Hes best served playing with Stevie off the ball, where he can get some easy baskets in transition, wont hog the ball or put up a ton of shots, and get the open looks from 3. That might help the starters build up the lead. Then, bell might be a great presence off the bench. A calming influence that can help maintain the lead, not get too crazy, and maybe play less minutes overall. The key tho, is that it might force MikeD to use Boris and Hill has the main offensive ballhandlers with the 2nd unit. Boris is at his best when the offense goes through him and he can set up a shooter like Raja and Hill can be used in that point-forward role setting guys up, rather than Barbs just looking for his own while everyone watches.

The problem? We're left without a legit ball handling guard with the 2nd unit, unless DJ or Banks get a chance to crack the rotation.

[Wormwood]

My 2 cents:

- Amare was at his most Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde last night. For more than half the game, Dampier outplayed Amare. The laziest contract player since Jerom James was making Amare look foolish, and STAT just didn't seem to care. Sure he was dominating in the 4th, but we never would have been scrambling to get back in the game if he'd shown any effort in the 1st quarter. I can't remember the last time I saw a player single handedly kill and nearly save his team in one game in such dramatic fashion.

- Nash couldn't give us much more than he did. That last three point miss was just exhaustion, IMHO.

- Barbosa did a decent job on Harris defensively, but man, he sure can't run an offense. Next to a big man, a back up PG should be our next highest priority.

- Which brings us to Boris Diaw and Brian Skinner. Both of them have awful +/- numbers, but at a minimum Skinner seems to be flying everywhere giving us some energy, and even a big who hustles up and down the court. Diaw was more aggressive, he shot the ball 9 times. To bad he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

- I don't care if Dirk scored 31, Shawn made him EARN it. Marion forced him into 5 turnovers, miss half his shots, and held him to a reasonable number of boards. I'd easily give him an A- for his overall defensive work. Not perfect, but you can't do much better.

- Right now, unless we can get Amare to play every quarter like it was the 4th, we're not championship caliber. Even then, Dallas was getting scads of offensive rebounds.

- Grant Hill's dunk on Diop was carrer highlight material. Not bad for a geezer of 35. Hill doesn't play like he's 35, that's for sure. The dude sure looks like he has some more good years in him. No real complaints here, other than just grabbing 4 boards. He's our best creator and distributor when Nash is out, as well.

* I have no idea what the right answer is, but something still isn't quite right up front on this team. We can't be a contender with a rebounding differential of -7 or -8, especially now that we're not a 3 point gunning team like we used to be.

[Billyjoejimbob]

Amare was vintage when i was watching the final 4 minutes. But he seems to be able to turn that on and off depending on the situation. In the big games when the score is close, he can really step up and make tough shots for us. He can get fouls, get to the line and really hurt the other team. But why cant get start the game like that? Why wont we establish that early in the game to maybe get a Damp or Dirk sent to the bnech with 2 quick fouls in the 1st or early 2nd qtr?

They tried to get Amare the ball in the first quarter. He couldn't do anything with it. He seemed like he didn't even want to be in the game. He was lazy on defense and careless on offense. If he would have played the whole game the way he did in the 4th quarter, I don't think they would have lost the game and I'm sure they wouldn't have been getting blown out in the first quarter.

[ShelC]

If thats the case then it has as much to do with focus and intensity. Amare has to learn to come out in the 1st with that kind of mentality. Its maturity and professionalism. Too bad we couldnt team him with KG. I think he could have learned a great deal from him in that respect.

[Billyjoejimbob]

No doubt about that ShelC.

[JustWinBaby]

Giricek was sent to the Locker Room last night over a spat with Coach Sloan and not travelling with the team, he could be released, soon.

If released, could he help our team?

I think I would prefer to get a look at Tucker but Giricek is a veteran and a 37% career 3 point shooter.

It is hard to figure out what is going on in Utah. They are getting beat by everyone.

I doubt my below suggestion could possibly ever happen for many reasons but ..............

A starting front court of

STAT
AK47
Marion

would be awesome IMO. Put Hill at the 2 and keep Skinner.

Would you trade Boris and LB for AK47?

Obviously I would prefer Boris and Banks but Utah would laugh at you.

Before anyone gets there panties tight, I like LB, just not as a point guard. I also know think he has great trade value around the league and could bring something very nice in return.

We need Defense and Rebounding. Amare and Shawn need some help from someone that will actually play - AK47 would be outstanding on this team.

Bring in AK47 and sign Giricek - Sorry for the trade scenario. But damn Boris has to be moved. He has been in a funk ever since Amare came back.

[MTSunsFan]

So Dirk scores 31 points w/ Shawn guarding him and we say he did an admirable defensive job on him. But when TD scores 36 w/ Amare on him, people were calling for him to be traded for a defensive-minded big man? I just don't get it...

[ShelC]

He has been in a funk ever since Amare came back.

I thought Amare had nothing to do with it.

[MTSunsFan]

He has been in a funk ever since Amare came back.

I thought Amare had nothing to do with it.

I hate to say it, but I think Diaw may be one of those contract-year type players a la Tim Thomas...

[JustWinBaby]

If thats the case then it has as much to do with focus and intensity. Amare has to learn to come out in the 1st with that kind of mentality. Its maturity and professionalism. Too bad we could team him with KG. I think he could have learned a great deal from him in that respect.

As many other have said and I agree, Amare major weakness is that his man gets position on him prior to getting the ball and he gets worked over badly. It is a catch 22 with Amare, when he does try to push and shove like others he gets called for a foul virtually everytime. He needs help to avoid foul trouble. Whether it be Skinner or someone else we could acquire he needs help. Amare when not worried about foul trouble plays pretty damn good defense IMO. He block shots gets steals and gets a hand in his mans face. Unfortunately when he starts out that way he is almost always on the bench with foul trouble for most of the first half and when he comes back in he is trying to get to the 2nd half without picking up another one.

Last night, on offense we were using Shawn as the primary scorer in the first quarter which was fine IMO and Amare was more or less a decoy. When it came to winning time Amare was the man and played extremely well on both ends. Amare and Shawn are both playing extremely well IMO.

Every evaluation comes back to Boris - most everyone remembers him when Amare was out - well Amare is out with foul trouble or rest a lot this year as well. That should be the time for Boris to shine and earn his $45 Million. Boris has just stunk it up for so long it is hard to come up with any positives about his play at all. Boris must be moved.

Could Amare have learned a lot from KG, probably. Unfortunately we don't have KG.

Go Suns

PS: Boris prove my lame ass wrong .......... please .................. You can be a beautifull player when right, unfortunately right now, you stink.

[Wormwood]

So Dirk scores 31 points w/ Shawn guarding him and we say he did an admirable defensive job on him. But when TD scores 36 w/ Amare on him, people were calling for him to be traded for a defensive-minded big man? I just don't get it...

Because virtually every shot Dirk took was contested (except one long 3 pointer), and from long range. He was turning the ball over to Marion, and completely discombobulated. He needed to hit some freaky hard shots against Marion, who stayed out of foul tropuble, BTW. Look, there's not much more Shawn could have done. He maximized the difficulty of every shot Dirk took, while avoiding fouls.

Amare was letting Dampier get uncontested lay ups, dunks, and offensive rebounds throughout the 1st half. There is a world of difference between Marion and Amare's defense last night.

BTW - If we could do a deal of Boris, LB, and Banks, and Atlanta's pick I would say hell yes. But.... we can't because of Boris' BYC clause. We're stuck with him because of that. He is immovable because everyone is over the cap, basically, and so you can't actually make slaries match up...

[JustWinBaby]

So Dirk scores 31 points w/ Shawn guarding him and we say he did an admirable defensive job on him. But when TD scores 36 w/ Amare on him, people were calling for him to be traded for a defensive-minded big man? I just don't get it...

MT - I here where you are coming from.

In Shawn defense I expect a lot of those points Dirk scored were when Boris and others were guarding Dirk. In Amares defense TD virtually nevers guards Amare he has help, Amare has no one to help him when guarding TD. Both are virtually unguardable one on one.

Amare needs to remain a Sun now and forever.

[JustWinBaby]

BTW - If we could do a deal of Boris, LB, and Banks, and Atlanta's pick I would say hell yes. But.... we can't because of Boris' BYC clause. We're stuck with him because of that. He is immovable because everyone is over the cap, basically, and so you can't actually make slaries match up...

Worm that is not entirely true. The CBA has a clause in it that our Seattle/Thomas Trade exception can be used to make up the difference.

[Superbone]

- Nash couldn't give us much more than he did. That last three point miss was just exhaustion, IMHO.

I don't think he missed because of exhaustion. I think it was short because he didn't quite have his balance after making that move and he shot it falling away.

[MTSunsFan]

Well according to the box score, Dampier wound up w/ a whopping 8 pts. Again, I think most assume that Amare is here to score the dang ball (a job that he does well mind you -- given the opportunity), and not be this all-world defensive player you wish he were. There seems to be a double standard around here when it comes to this. I say cut the guy some slack or call on management to get him some help on the court...

[Wormwood]

Dampier had 10 boards, 5 offensive, in 29 minutes. Those five offensive rebounds let to a lot of points. Also of note, Dampier was 4-4 from the field.

I know we like Amare, but I don't think many people were impressed with his play in the 1st half, and it would be fair to say Dampier outplayed him in that crucial period where the Mavs outscored us by 17.

[ShelC]

I don't think he missed because of exhaustion. I think it was short because he didn't quite have his balance after making that move and he shot it falling away.

Yea it wasnt exhaustion. The Mavs coverd the play well and had a bigger, longer player in Howard covering Nash. Nash got free from Howard with his inital shot fake, but was moving right to left after that move and had to shoot the ball moving left, across his body. There wasnt much more he could do. The shot was lined up, but he couldnt get that extra push behind it cuz he was forced to shoot it going left.

[JustWinBaby]

{I know we like Amare, but I don't think many people were impressed with his play in the 1st half, and it would be fair to say Dampier outplayed him in that crucial period where the Mavs outscored us by 17.}

I don't think anyone was impressed by his play in the first half. However we was not the only reason we were down by 17 in the first quarter. As I remember we were down for sure but only a few buckets prior to Amare, Nash and Marion going to the bench. Enter Boris, LB and Skinner and the Mavs went on a run to close out the quarter I think 11 to 2. IMO Skinner played his ass off and was not the reason in fact without him it could have been worse. Boris was a minus 17 and LB was a minus 11 last night for a reason. They never got it going. LB is off the hook as far as I am concerned in that even though he is not a PG he plays his ass off. He just sometimes makes stupid plays, but not due to lack of effort. Boris on the other hand .....................

[Billyjoejimbob]

Well according to the box score, Dampier wound up w/ a whopping 8 pts. Again, I think most assume that Amare is here to score the dang ball (a job that he does well mind you -- given the opportunity), and not be this all-world defensive player you wish he were. There seems to be a double standard around here when it comes to this. I say cut the guy some slack or call on management to get him some help on the court...

There isn't a double standard. There is a difference. Amare doesn't even try to play defense half the time and his man almost always beats him to the rebound no matter which end of the floor he is on. Yes he is an offensive player, but he can't be such a huge liability on defense. He has to at least be able to hold his own and he doesn't. I don't expect Amare to be an all world defensive player, but I do expect him to at least try and play defense and maybe box somebody out once in a while and get a friggin rebound. He had 8 rebounds last night, I think Dampier almost had that many offensive rebounds. Amare only averages 8.4 rebounds per game. For somebody his size with his physical gifts, that's not very good. If you add that to his porous defense that makes him a liability right now and he doesn't score enough to make up for that. He needs to bring the energy he showed in the 4th quarter last night for the entire game. He showed what he is capable of in the 4th, which means he just doesn't want to do it for a whole game.

[jed]

Welcome to Bizarro Earth.

Personally, I was more encouraged by this loss than I was the win -- save the first quarter. The way we opened was shameful, but a lot of good things happened as the game progressed.

First, Amare woke up and actually played some pretty great defense. The rest of the team did too. I also liked that they seemed to rediscover what he can do for this team in the second half, especially in the fourth quarter. We needed a basket -- we dished to Amare. He got fouled on strong plays to the hoop. And he finally brought some hustle.

Don't get me wrong. I hate the loss. We should have taken this game. But I guess I saw a few glimmers of hope as time went on.

[MTSunsFan]

Fine, bjjb. You and everyone else are entitled to your own opinion. I just don't feel it's fair that the defensive woes of the team are oftentimes pinned solely on Amare. I'll just leave it @ that...

[Billyjoejimbob]

Fine, bjjb. You and everyone else are entitled to your own opinion. I just don't feel it's fair that the defensive woes of the team are oftentimes pinned solely on Amare. I'll just leave it @ that...

I don't pin the defensive woes solely on Amare. However, I do think he is a big part of the problem since his main responsibility is the gaping hole in the middle. The problem I have with Amare is that he frustrates me to no end because as we saw in the second half last night, he has the ability to play good defense and bring energy to the team, but he doesn't always do that.

[scosuns]

Yeah, Amare isn't a bad defensive player. But, you can tell he has been coasting somewhat. Maybe Mike told everyone to take it easy this season, just like the Dallas situation. And then, when we started losing winnable games, then we hear it from Mike and the others saying they have to play harder. I don't remember ever hearing this much of a "sense of urgency" type posts and articles as we have been reading and hearing this season.

[Billyjoejimbob]

I also liked that they seemed to rediscover what he can do for this team in the second half, especially in the fourth quarter. We needed a basket -- we dished to Amare. He got fouled on strong plays to the hoop. And he finally brought some hustle.

I agree he looked great in the second half, especially the 4th quarter, but it bothers me that he didn't start the game with that hustle. What does it take to get him to play a whole game that way?

[JustWinBaby]

Fine, bjjb. You and everyone else are entitled to your own opinion. I just don't feel it's fair that the defensive woes of the team are oftentimes pinned solely on Amare. I'll just leave it @ that...

MT

So true

Nash is not going to make the all defensive team anytime soon either, but he plays hard and is adored, which he should be.

Amare makes plays at big moments like Nash, he is a winner.

If Raja would have made just a few of those open 3 pointers he missed, life would be good. Raja offense has been poor for most of the season but is never mentioned during the biopsy. We will struggle against anyone when Raja and LB both struggle on the same nights.

Boris on the other hand did not shoot well, play defense, rebound or pass well.

All of these problems and we were in it till the end while getting outrebounded by 14 again.

[Billyjoejimbob]

Fine, bjjb. You and everyone else are entitled to your own opinion. I just don't feel it's fair that the defensive woes of the team are oftentimes pinned solely on Amare. I'll just leave it @ that...

MT

So true

Nash is not going to make the all defensive team anytime soon either, but he plays hard and is adored, which he should be.

Amare makes plays at big moments like Nash, he is a winner.

If Raja would have made just a few of those open 3 pointers he missed, life would be good. Raja offense has been poor for most of the season but is never mentioned during the biopsy. We will struggle against anyone when Raja and LB both struggle on the same nights.

Boris on the other hand did not shoot well, play defense, rebound or pass well.

All of these problems and we were in it till the end while getting outrebounded by 14 again.


Apparently I am terrible at getting a point across. I am not trying to pick on Amare. I just think that if he brought the same amount of energy in the 1st quarter that he brought in the 4th quarter then the weaknesses of the 2nd team wouldn't have been so noticable. No he isn't the only one who played poorly in the first quarter, but when he is playing with that high energy, especially on the defensive end it does seem to energize the rest of the team to try harder on defense because they know he will be there to back them up. Please don't think that I want to trade Amare or I think he sucks, because that is not my objective. I just want him to play up to his capabilities. He has shown us what he can do and I want him to do it all the time because it makes the team better.

[Shabazz]

Stern needs to get off his ass and start instituting flop review. Players need to be fined for trying to deceive the officials (and with the caliber of officials in existence, they are already too confused most of the time).

One of the commentators — I think it was JVG — suggested during the game that officials ought to study personnel, know who the habitual floppers are, and never give them the benefit of the doubt, even when they deserve it. I agree with this.

If you flop once in your career, and it’s down the stretch of Game 7 of the Finals, and you get away with it, well, congratulations, you’ve earned it. But if you flop routinely, you deserve to have it backfire.

Not a bad idea, but we've got a guy who's one of the best floppers in the L in Raja Bell.
The guy's a dynamo defender, but he cons the refs with a flop at least once a game.

[DrSublime]

Yeah, Amare isn't a bad defensive player. But, you can tell he has been coasting somewhat. Maybe Mike told everyone to take it easy this season, just like the Dallas situation. And then, when we started losing winnable games, then we hear it from Mike and the others saying they have to play harder. I don't remember ever hearing this much of a "sense of urgency" type posts and articles as we have been reading and hearing this season.

not sure why
but when i first glanced at this post i read the words DIKEMBE MUTOMBO..
i know his name isnt in there
but i saw it, i swear!

[scosuns]

[quote] not sure why
but when i first glanced at this post i read the words DIKEMBE MUTOMBO..
i know his name isnt in there
but i saw it, i swear!

Hah, maybe you should go rest your eyes. I swear, I feel like I'm on a computer high. I can't even think straight. :wink:

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Well according to the box score, Dampier wound up w/ a whopping 8 pts. Again, I think most assume that Amare is here to score the dang ball (a job that he does well mind you -- given the opportunity), and not be this all-world defensive player you wish he were. There seems to be a double standard around here when it comes to this. I say cut the guy some slack or call on management to get him some help on the court...

There isn't a double standard. There is a difference. Amare doesn't even try to play defense half the time and his man almost always beats him to the rebound no matter which end of the floor he is on. Yes he is an offensive player, but he can't be such a huge liability on defense. He has to at least be able to hold his own and he doesn't. I don't expect Amare to be an all world defensive player, but I do expect him to at least try and play defense and maybe box somebody out once in a while and get a friggin rebound. He had 8 rebounds last night, I think Dampier almost had that many offensive rebounds. Amare only averages 9 rebounds per game. For somebody his size with his physical gifts, that's not very good. If you add that to his pouros defense that makes him a liability right now and he doesn't score enough to make up for that. He needs to bring the energy he showed in the 4th quarter last night for the entire game. He showed what he is capable of in the 4th, which means he just doesn't want to do it for a whole game.

No it means we need a good center (HELP) D'Antoni Amare is the best scoring machine in the NBA, but coach won't change his style to benefit Amare..Our offense caters to Nash and we will never win a Championship that way.

[Shabazz]

A few Amare points:

- I think last night's 4th quarter was as close to "#32 Amare" as he's been since the MF surgery.
- As shoddy as his man to man defense has been, he's really been a pretty good help defender. He's 8th in the NBA in blocks, and his blocks per minute are right up there with Dwight Howard's.
- Stoudemire is a dominant inside player, but I really wish he would have spent all that summer time he used improving his 3 point shot to work on a few extra back-to-the-basket post moves like Josh Smith did by working with Olajuwon all summer. Defense is a hard thing to improve working with someone one-on-one (much easier to work on in scrimmages and simulated game situations), but working on post moves with a good big man coach one-on-one can be very rewarding.
The farther we get into the season without him using his newfound 3, the less likely we are to see it at all. He's certainly not going to unveil it in the playoffs.

[DrSublime]

he's shot the 3 a very little bit, but i dont think he or coach want him out on the 3 point line when he CAN BE so dominate in / near the paint.

[scosuns]

I think the Suns should get Amare a big man coach. Amare doesn't play like a back to the basket guy. But, if he can get some good post moves, he will be damn near unstoppable.

[misteradiant]

"I’m pretty pleased in the way we played.”

coach didn't looked pleased with how they played when the mavs went up by 17 and he was silent in the huddle, then yelling and throwing down his clipboard at the end of the timeout. and that interview he gave at the end of the first. the look on his face could have cut glass.

informer, roll your eyes all you like, but i counted two iffy calls that went our way and stopped at six for the mavs. the refs were giving them continuations that weren't there, calling fouls that were blocks, letting dirk walk all over the place until finally stopping it. they allowed offensive goaltending for the mavs and called fouls against us that could have gone either way and would best be suited to not be called at all. when did we finally get one our way that resulted in a trip to the line? wasn't it half way through the 2nd quarter, after the mavs had been there 6 or 8 times? yeah. the suns are a foul machine and the game was called so tightly that none of us have the right to question it.

:roll:

i know you love the rolly-eye guy, man, but sometimes you must resist. :cool:

even gene said "the refs bailed out the mavs when it counted." i am not blaming the loss on the refs. i am stating that they made it more difficult for us and just two calls, the phantom continuation and the offensive goaltending, would have resulted in a 1-point win for PHX. but at least six of those kind of calls against us? that makes it easy to blame the loss on the refs. i'll stick to the lame first quarter effort as the cause, but won't disagree with anybody that blames the world-renowned accuracy of nba refereeing.


We don't win because we are no longer trading 2 points for 3.

true. with barbosa struggling, we are cold, soggy toast. raja hasn't been very reliable, either.


Amare is playing just fine. We just need to start getting him the damn ball. A lot.

yuperoony.


Mike D has our guard rotation all messed up. Barbosa should be starting, Raja off the bench, and we should have a 4th guard in the rotation (either Banks or DJ). I honestly think Banks earned a better shot than he's gotten this year. He is getting screwed. What can the guy do?

My proposal is, you sit Banks and DJ down and you tell them, listen, if you play D and hit 3s, I *will* play you. And whoever hits their 3s better in practice or in the game gets the minutes. We need another 3 point gunner in the worst way, and we need another guard to take the pressure off the Nash/Barbs/Bell 3-headed monster, especially now that Bell is probably out.

i'd like to read your thesis on this matter. our long-distance dialing has been doody this year. we're jacking up 23 a game and making 8 of them? that's crap by our standards. we should hit 9 or 10. just one more last night would have been a different game and i like the suns chances in o.t. with the way amare was dominating on both ends of the court. when he blocked that shot and yanked the rebound out of the mav's hands, i was yelling and pumping my fist. those two plays resulted in an and-one for him at the other end. if we'd have played o.t. he'd have ended with 33 points. it seems that we are passing up 3's we would have taken last year.

mori, tucker tore up the d-league and won player of the week just before we returned him to the squad. how did he do shooting from distance while he was with the thunderbirds? anybody? he isn't in the d-league stats since he came back to the suns.

i'm down on amare's first half performance, guys. very down. it's arguable that the loss could be pinned on him, regardless of his late-game heroics. he could have played like that for five minutes to start the game and we'd have won by ten points. if he could have kept dampier from just 3 of his o-bounds, and made him miss just one of his four shots, again, it's a different game. but here is the trouble, in games that end by one possession, any single play could change the outcome. the loss could easily be pinned on any player that missed or allowed a shot by that logic. does that mean i won't say it could be amare's fault we lost? nope. the jekyll and hyde in him that someone mentioned is right on. when we see him perform like he did to end the game, we have a right to expect some of it at the start of a game. if the suns would start with aggression, we'd have boston's record right now, maybe better. i yelled quite a few things at my television last night, and some them were about the weak defensive play the suns displayed. i was with coach in my anger at their effort when he yelled and threw his clipboard down, storming away. it turned around after that timeout but by then it was too late. dallas is still a top 5 team and 11-2 at home. you don't go down 17 in the 2nd period and win without earth-shattering effort. if we'd have put the clamps on early (amare, i'm looking at you - see you at home all star weekend in new orleans), we'd have entered the half up by 5 or 10. we win games when we enter halftime ahead.

anyway, i've got time to write today. hope i don't bore any of you.

and because some smartass (wasnt it sehan?) wrote "with that said," here is a poem by charles bukowski. it's called "yes yes."

when God created love He didn't help most
when God created dogs He didn't help dogs
when God created plants that was average
when God created hate we had a standard utility
when God created me He created me
when God created the monkey He was asleep
when He created the giraffe He was drunk
when He created narcotics He was high
and when He created suicide he was low

when He created you lying in bed
He knew what He was doing
He was drunk and He was high
and He created the mountains and the sea and fire
at the same time

He made some mistakes
but when He created you lying in bed
He came all over His Blessed Universe


I was more encouraged by this loss than I was the win -- save the first quarter. The way we opened was shameful, but a lot of good things happened as the game progressed.

First, Amare woke up and actually played some pretty great defense. The rest of the team did too. I also liked that they seemed to rediscover what he can do for this team in the second half, especially in the fourth quarter. We needed a basket -- we dished to Amare. He got fouled on strong plays to the hoop. And he finally brought some hustle.

yup. that one hook shot by amare near the end when he curved his whole body and it slammed into the rim and down it.... that was awesome. we demand more!

hey MT, i don't think we can pin the defensive woes solely on amare because we see others slacking. i yelled at steve during a half court set by the mavs when he moved his head to check out another player, thereby taking his eyes off the ball and the man he was guarding, and harris blew behind him for a lay-up. but when amare plays defense like we saw last night, we can beat anybody, anytime, anywhere. he has to do it all the time. otherwise, we lose and we question his heart.


I am not trying to pick on Amare. I just think that if he brought the same amount of energy in the 1st quarter that he brought in the 4th quarter then the weaknesses of the 2nd team wouldn't have been so noticable. No he isn't the only one who played poorly in the first quarter, but when he is playing with that high energy, especially on the defensive end it does seem to energize the rest of the team to try harder on defense because they know he will be there to back them up. Please don't think that I want to trade Amare or I think he sucks, because that is not my objective. I just want him to play up to his capabilities. He has shown us what he can do and I want him to do it all the time because it makes the team better.

what he said. i just like to say it longer.

[misteradiant]

I really wish he would have spent all that summer time he used improving his 3 point shot to work on a few extra back-to-the-basket post moves like Josh Smith did by working with Olajuwon all summer...

The farther we get into the season without him using his newfound 3, the less likely we are to see it at all. He's certainly not going to unveil it in the playoffs.

that is a coaching mistake and a suns front-office mistake. we hire guys like jay humphries and steve kerr that think it's cool amare is practicing 3's instead of people that might teach amare those low post moves. the lakers have kareem teaching bynum. who did we have teaching amare? iavaroni? that was not good enough and even he is gone now.

the suns ought to bring in somebody to tutor amare this year. i don't care who and i don't know who is available. i'd give charles a call if i was kerr. if magic can still comment on tnt with his relationship with the lakers, chuckles could continue his broadcast career as well and help us. i can only guess if he'd be interested, but i'd ask anyway.

maybe teach boris the same stuff. we've got to do something with that chump.

[misteradiant]

I think the Suns should get Amare a big man coach. Amare doesn't play like a back to the basket guy. But, if he can get some good post moves, he will be damn near unstoppable.


that's what i get for not reading the entire thread before i post. good idea, scosuns!

;)

[tbrkingofthesouth]

"I’m pretty pleased in the way we played.”

coach didn't looked pleased with how they played when the mavs went up by 17 and he was silent in the huddle, then yelling and throwing down his clipboard at the end of the timeout. and that interview he gave at the end of the first. the look on his face could have cut glass.

informer, roll your eyes all you like, but i counted two iffy calls that went our way and stopped at six for the mavs. the refs were giving them continuations that weren't there, calling fouls that were blocks, letting dirk walk all over the place until finally stopping it. they allowed offensive goaltending for the mavs and called fouls against us that could have gone either way and would best be suited to not be called at all. when did we finally get one our way that resulted in a trip to the line? wasn't it half way through the 2nd quarter, after the mavs had been there 6 or 8 times? yeah. the suns are a foul machine and the game was called so tightly that none of us have the right to question it.

:roll:

i know you love the rolly-eye guy, man, but sometimes you must resist. :cool:

even gene said "the refs bailed out the mavs when it counted." i am not blaming the loss on the refs. i am stating that they made it more difficult for us and just two calls, the phantom continuation and the offensive goaltending, would have resulted in a 1-point win for PHX. but at least six of those kind of calls against us? that makes it easy to blame the loss on the refs. i'll stick to the lame first quarter effort as the cause, but won't disagree with anybody that blames the world-renowned accuracy of nba refereeing.


We don't win because we are no longer trading 2 points for 3.

true. with barbosa struggling, we are cold, soggy toast. raja hasn't been very reliable, either.


Amare is playing just fine. We just need to start getting him the damn ball. A lot.

yuperoony.


Mike D has our guard rotation all messed up. Barbosa should be starting, Raja off the bench, and we should have a 4th guard in the rotation (either Banks or DJ). I honestly think Banks earned a better shot than he's gotten this year. He is getting screwed. What can the guy do?

My proposal is, you sit Banks and DJ down and you tell them, listen, if you play D and hit 3s, I *will* play you. And whoever hits their 3s better in practice or in the game gets the minutes. We need another 3 point gunner in the worst way, and we need another guard to take the pressure off the Nash/Barbs/Bell 3-headed monster, especially now that Bell is probably out.

i'd like to read your thesis on this matter. our long-distance dialing has been doody this year. we're jacking up 23 a game and making 8 of them? that's crap by our standards. we should hit 9 or 10. just one more last night would have been a different game and i like the suns chances in o.t. with the way amare was dominating on both ends of the court. when he blocked that shot and yanked the rebound out of the mav's hands, i was yelling and pumping my fist. those two plays resulted in an and-one for him at the other end. if we'd have played o.t. he'd have ended with 33 points. it seems that we are passing up 3's we would have taken last year.

mori, tucker tore up the d-league and won player of the week just before we returned him to the squad. how did he do shooting from distance while he was with the thunderbirds? anybody? he isn't in the d-league stats since he came back to the suns.

i'm down on amare's first half performance, guys. very down. it's arguable that the loss could be pinned on him, regardless of his late-game heroics. he could have played like that for five minutes to start the game and we'd have won by ten points. if he could have kept dampier from just 3 of his o-bounds, and made him miss just one of his four shots, again, it's a different game. but here is the trouble, in games that end by one possession, any single play could change the outcome. the loss could easily be pinned on any player that missed or allowed a shot by that logic. does that mean i won't say it could be amare's fault we lost? nope. the jekyll and hyde in him that someone mentioned is right on. when we see him perform like he did to end the game, we have a right to expect some of it at the start of a game. if the suns would start with aggression, we'd have boston's record right now, maybe better. i yelled quite a few things at my television last night, and some them were about the weak defensive play the suns displayed. i was with coach in my anger at their effort when he yelled and threw his clipboard down, storming away. it turned around after that timeout but by then it was too late. dallas is still a top 5 team and 11-2 at home. you don't go down 17 in the 2nd period and win without earth-shattering effort. if we'd have put the clamps on early (amare, i'm looking at you - see you at home all star weekend in new orleans), we'd have entered the half up by 5 or 10. we win games when we enter halftime ahead.

anyway, i've got time to write today. hope i don't bore any of you.

and because some smartass (wasnt it sehan?) wrote "with that said," here is a poem by charles bukowski. it's called "yes yes."

when God created love He didn't help most
when God created dogs He didn't help dogs
when God created plants that was average
when God created hate we had a standard utility
when God created me He created me
when God created the monkey He was asleep
when He created the giraffe He was drunk
when He created narcotics He was high
and when He created suicide he was low

when He created you lying in bed
He knew what He was doing
He was drunk and He was high
and He created the mountains and the sea and fire
at the same time

He made some mistakes
but when He created you lying in bed
He came all over His Blessed Universe


I was more encouraged by this loss than I was the win -- save the first quarter. The way we opened was shameful, but a lot of good things happened as the game progressed.

First, Amare woke up and actually played some pretty great defense. The rest of the team did too. I also liked that they seemed to rediscover what he can do for this team in the second half, especially in the fourth quarter. We needed a basket -- we dished to Amare. He got fouled on strong plays to the hoop. And he finally brought some hustle.

yup. that one hook shot by amare near the end when he curved his whole body and it slammed into the rim and down it.... that was awesome. we demand more!

hey MT, i don't think we can pin the defensive woes solely on amare because we see others slacking. i yelled at steve during a half court set by the mavs when he moved his head to check out another player, thereby taking his eyes off the ball and the man he was guarding, and harris blew behind him for a lay-up. but when amare plays defense like we saw last night, we can beat anybody, anytime, anywhere. he has to do it all the time. otherwise, we lose and we question his heart.


I am not trying to pick on Amare. I just think that if he brought the same amount of energy in the 1st quarter that he brought in the 4th quarter then the weaknesses of the 2nd team wouldn't have been so noticable. No he isn't the only one who played poorly in the first quarter, but when he is playing with that high energy, especially on the defensive end it does seem to energize the rest of the team to try harder on defense because they know he will be there to back them up. Please don't think that I want to trade Amare or I think he sucks, because that is not my objective. I just want him to play up to his capabilities. He has shown us what he can do and I want him to do it all the time because it makes the team better.

what he said. i just like to say it longer.

For Amare to play up to his capabilities D'Antoni has to change his style get a big man that can help on D..A championship team needs that.I want a change b/c we can't win the ring like this. If you want Amare to play like a beast all game get him some fuckin help in the paint so he won't be so worried about picking up fouls in the first half. Pop has never asked Duncan to play C. He has help in the paint. Coach can't see the forest b/c all of the trees are in his way. COTY,2MVPS for the star point guard,MIP,sixth man. He is soo stuck on his style that it is to the detriment of our title hopes.

[jed]

[quote] not sure why
but when i first glanced at this post i read the words DIKEMBE MUTOMBO..
i know his name isnt in there
but i saw it, i swear!

Hah, maybe you should go rest your eyes. I swear, I feel like I'm on a computer high. I can't even think straight. :wink:

Who wants to sex Mutumbo?!!!

[Shabazz]

I really wish he would have spent all that summer time he used improving his 3 point shot to work on a few extra back-to-the-basket post moves like Josh Smith did by working with Olajuwon all summer...

The farther we get into the season without him using his newfound 3, the less likely we are to see it at all. He's certainly not going to unveil it in the playoffs.

that is a coaching mistake and a suns front-office mistake. we hire guys like jay humphries and steve kerr that think it's cool amare is practicing 3's instead of people that might teach amare those low post moves. the lakers have kareem teaching bynum. who did we have teaching amare? iavaroni? that was not good enough and even he is gone now.

the suns ought to bring in somebody to tutor amare this year. i don't care who and i don't know who is available. i'd give charles a call if i was kerr. if magic can still comment on tnt with his relationship with the lakers, chuckles could continue his broadcast career as well and help us. i can only guess if he'd be interested, but i'd ask anyway.

maybe teach boris the same stuff. we've got to do something with that chump.

Hell, maybe we can get Boris to tutor Amare.

[misteradiant]

boris to amare:

"here's how to prance around right under the basket," boris takes the ball and does a couple of pirouettes, "and watch how i toss it out for a 19-foot jumpshot." boris stops, does a reverse pirouette and throws the ball overhead."

"now, and i want you to pay close attention, amare, because this is how you get beat for position and miss the offensive rebound..."

boris gets beat by a little girl he inlisted to help.

"and most importantly," he says, "never jump."

yeah. that's the tutoring i imagine.

[Shabazz]

boris to amare:

"here's how to prance around right under the basket," boris takes the ball and does a couple of pirouettes, "and watch how i toss it out for a 19-foot jumpshot." boris stops, does a reverse pirouette and throws the ball overhead."

"now, and i want you to pay close attention, amare, because this is how you get beat for position and miss the offensive rebound..."

boris gets beat by a little girl he inlisted to help.

"and most importantly," he says, "never jump."

yeah. that's the tutoring i imagine.

Maybe he can teach him the "Boris Diaw Face" too. You know, the one where he clearly travels or commits a foul, gets called for it then opens his mouth as wide as possible in mock horror while holding the ball in one hand for a few seconds too long, followed by him pursing his lips together, flipping the ball to the ref and prancing back to the other end of the court all the while keeping his chest out and lips pursed.

I guarantee it would lower Amare's technical total. Probably his street cred too.

[Nodack]

We don't win because we are no longer trading 2 points for 3.

Every team plays us differently. SA stopped the inside game and the Mavs tried to shut down our 3pt. shooting hence the 7 attempts if you ask me. You take what they give you.

Suns 3-7 3PT's =9 Pts
Mavs 6-16 3PTs = 18 Pts
Mavs shoot 9 more attempts at three than Suns
Suns shoot 9 more 2 pt. attempts instead of 3 pointers at 50% shooting =9 Pts

Suns=18 PTs
Mavs=18 PTs

Conclusion, 3PT shooting wasn't a factor in the game.

Amare is dormant in 1st half and comes alive in 4th quarter. We talked about this in detail yesterday and from watching this game my opinion hasn't changed. I still think Amare and possibly the team has been so concerned with fouls that Amare has been focusing on staying in the game and not getting in foul trouble and that can be construed as playing poorly, lethargic, lazy, the team ignoring their best inside presence or whatever. Ten games or so he would play hard to start and pick up early fouls and not be able to play aggressively the rest of the game because he was always in foul trouble. He stopped posting up people with his back to the basket and has gone to outside shooting and slashes to the basket off of pick and rolls exclusively. Now he does whatever it takes to stay out of foul trouble early and that usually means not so good or non aggressive defense if you will. Now entering the second half he knows he can be a little more aggressive and as last night showed just like in SA, he could turn the aggressive knob to ten knowing he has a cushion. It may not be pretty but it's progress if you ask me. Somebody suggested a personal big man coach for Amare and I think that would be a great idea. People make fun of Mike D'Antoni being Barbosa's personal coach, but even if some don't see it, I can see that that has paid off in a big way for Barbosa and the Suns. We could sit Amare for the entire first half and unleash his fury on the other teams in the second half, but that wouldn't teach Amare to play better defense.

I think Amare is having a little success with his approach even though he is a defensive and offensive weak link in the first half right now. Maybe if he has success with not picking up fouls in the first half on a consistent basis he might be able to turn the aggressive knob to 6 instead of 3 1/2 in the first half's. Since we are getting killed on the boards, maybe Amare can focus more on rebounding in the first half of games to be more productive.

I was happy with Diaw even if he shot poor last night. He was aggressive and he has started to be more aggressive lately and that's what we need from him.

A lot of nice comments here today and I read them all unless of course they mentioned the word trade in them in them. In that case I just skip to the next post as fast as I can. Zzzzzzz

[cap]

So, Amare plays poorly early in the game, but plays well later in the game? Simple solution: bring him off the bench. ;)

[scosuns]

boris to amare:

"here's how to prance around right under the basket," boris takes the ball and does a couple of pirouettes, "and watch how i toss it out for a 19-foot jumpshot." boris stops, does a reverse pirouette and throws the ball overhead."

"now, and i want you to pay close attention, amare, because this is how you get beat for position and miss the offensive rebound..."

boris gets beat by a little girl he inlisted to help.

"and most importantly," he says, "never jump."

yeah. that's the tutoring i imagine.

Haha. I have to admit, that is the funniest thing I have read today. You people are fun. Anyways, yeah. If Diaw was a teacher, he's either in it for little kids, or IDK what else. But, god forbid he EVER teaches anyone anything. I swear, if he holds a summer camp he should be arrested. He doesn't need to poison the minds of young children.

[JediSkywalker]

We need an active player through a trade, during this season. I don't mind losing the Atlanta pick at this point. If we could package it with Banks and Diaw, may be we could get a decent post player. Shaq is too old. I may like to get Bynum, but I doubt the Lakers will trade him.

NFV, usually I like your commentary but you can't be serious about this...

How's Steve Kerr going to sell this one?

"Hey Kup, I know you wouldn't give up Bynum to get Jason Kidd, and I know you will never make a trade that might possibly help our team, which is currently only a couple of games ahead of you in the standings, but how about you give him to us for our two worst contracts and a mid-first round draft pick?"

And it's not just LA...

Boris & Banks are untradeable unless you throw Stat or Nash in with them.

The Atl pick has plummeted in market value with their team's early success. In fact, due to the trade with Seattle it is more valuable to us than to potential trade partners who still have a first rounder next year. It may still be enough to pair with Banks in salary dumping move, but that's it for now. And that wouldn't help our team whatsoever.

I still think Doris could do well as a primary option in the post. He could thrive on a team like Chicago if Skiles would ever play him there. But, realistically, the guy is stuck here for the foreseeable future.

Rather WE are stuck with him! IN 2005-2006 he seemed like a steal, but last 18 months have been frustrating. He has the talent but not the heart to consistently give it his all. If there is a coach that knows how to make him productive, he could be tradeable- a near impossibility. The Suns may be better off keeping him, rather than throwing away more draft picks just to get rid of him.

I think Banks would have become tradeable if Dantoni had used him right. If he sits on the bench every game, who is going to trade for him? Of course he cannot be traded by himself. The team has a pattern in all of its losses. Dantoni could do well by doing something different, such as playing Banks instead of exhausting the starters.

[JediSkywalker]

We don't win because we are no longer trading 2 points for 3.

Every team plays us differently. SA stopped the inside game and the Mavs tried to shut down our 3pt. shooting hence the 7 attempts if you ask me. You take what they give you.

Suns 3-7 3PT's =9 Pts
Mavs 6-16 3PTs = 18 Pts
Mavs shoot 9 more attempts at three than Suns
Suns shoot 9 more 2 pt. attempts instead of 3 pointers at 50% shooting =9 Pts

Suns=18 PTs
Mavs=18 PTs

Conclusion, 3PT shooting wasn't a factor in the game.

Amare is dormant in 1st half and comes alive in 4th quarter. We talked about this in detail yesterday and from watching this game my opinion hasn't changed. I still think Amare and possibly the team has been so concerned with fouls that Amare has been focusing on staying in the game and not getting in foul trouble and that can be construed as playing poorly, lethargic, lazy, the team ignoring their best inside presence or whatever. Ten games or so he would play hard to start and pick up early fouls and not be able to play aggressively the rest of the game because he was always in foul trouble. He stopped posting up people with his back to the basket and has gone to outside shooting and slashes to the basket off of pick and rolls exclusively. Now he does whatever it takes to stay out of foul trouble early and that usually means not so good or non aggressive defense if you will. Now entering the second half he knows he can be a little more aggressive and as last night showed just like in SA, he could turn the aggressive knob to ten knowing he has a cushion. It may not be pretty but it's progress if you ask me. Somebody suggested a personal big man coach for Amare and I think that would be a great idea. People make fun of Mike D'Antoni being Barbosa's personal coach, but even if some don't see it, I can see that that has paid off in a big way for Barbosa and the Suns. We could sit Amare for the entire first half and unleash his fury on the other teams in the second half, but that wouldn't teach Amare to play better defense.

I think Amare is having a little success with his approach even though he is a defensive and offensive weak link in the first half right now. Maybe if he has success with not picking up fouls in the first half on a consistent basis he might be able to turn the aggressive knob to 6 instead of 3 1/2 in the first half's. Since we are getting killed on the boards, maybe Amare can focus more on rebounding in the first half of games to be more productive.

I was happy with Diaw even if he shot poor last night. He was aggressive and he has started to be more aggressive lately and that's what we need from him.

A lot of nice comments here today and I read them all unless of course they mentioned the word trade in them in them. In that case I just skip to the next post as fast as I can. Zzzzzzz

Yes, Diaw has been aggressive more than in the past, but it is still not enough.

I heard an interesting comment on KTAR620 this morning. One of the guys said- Amare misses Iavaroni; he used to be his defensive mentor. I think it is quite possible. I also think he misses Kurt Thomas giving him defensive tips.

[scosuns]

That's why we need to hire Amare a solid and proven big man coach. Well, he doesn't have to have coaching experience. But a big man that played in the league that gets it. Its understandable that Amare might be lacking because of that. And I know no one right now on the Suns is capable of adding some post moves to Amare's game.

[BigLewy]

I remember reading how Coach was looking at Tom Thibodeau to fill Iavroni's spot, that probably would have helped a bit seeing as how he got Boston to become pretty stout on D.

[Wormwood]

Man, Hakeem Olajuwon was the most similar player to Amare in size and skill set, wish we could bring him to teach Amare something about defense and how to play back to the basket. The dream shake was unstoppable.

[Phoenix219]

What about Mark West? Don't we still have him around somewhere?

[scosuns]

Yeah, he is involved with the Suns. I don't know how much he could do, but he would certainly help. Thats not a bad idea.

[Phoenix219]

Wonder what Pat Ewing is doing these days?

[Coop]

From watching this season here is my take on Amare.......

I dont think he fits our system, and here is why... He is not a center. That is not his position and he does not do a good job at it. As long as we are the run and gun Suns he will not become a top 5 player like he could do. I think Amare is actually more built for a half court set. Imagine Amare playing the PF position on any team that plays a half court game such as, LA next to Bynum, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. A team that has a decent big man in the middle. I am not saying a superstar big man, just someone who is actually a "center" He would be a beast in that situation.

That is also is the reason I dont want to trade him. I believe within the next 2 years we will be running ALOT more half court sets and we will desperately need him then, plus I would hate to see him go to another team and be utilized correctly.

I think when we played san Antonio the other night and it slowed down to a half court game I think we played pretty well in the haf court. I would really like to see us start doing that alot more often with Skinner at the 5. Im not sure if it is just me but it seems like this eyar especialy we have been making alot of stupid turnovers when we are trying to get out and run alot.

[ShelC]

Wonder what Pat Ewing is doing these days?

Workin with that kid in Orlando...whats his name?

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Fine, bjjb. You and everyone else are entitled to your own opinion. I just don't feel it's fair that the defensive woes of the team are oftentimes pinned solely on Amare. I'll just leave it @ that...

I don't pin the defensive woes solely on Amare. However, I do think he is a big part of the problem since his main responsibility is the gaping hole in the middle. The problem I have with Amare is that he frustrates me to no end because as we saw in the second half last night, he has the ability to play good defense and bring energy to the team, but he doesn't always do that.


Coach D'Antoni is the problem

[Phoenix219]

Yeah our timing on the "fast" plays is really off, i wonder if its just the newness wearing off. 04 with Q and JJ, 05 without Amare, and integrating Diaw/Bell, etc etc.... this is the first time we've really returned the same squad and maybe thats why the energy and timing is off - its old hat to *everyone* now.

[JediSkywalker]

With the exception of Grant Hill and Skinner it is the same old team. Other teams have figured out how to defend our top 3 and our sixth man. Unless Dantoni comes up with some new ideas. the Suns are not likely to advance very far in the playoffs.

[sunsdotcom]

From watching this season here is my take on Amare.......

I dont think he fits our system, and here is why... He is not a center.

marion for camby and najera (or stephen hunter)
marion for odom and turiaf.
marion for chandler and morris peterson.

[Phoenix219]

Sure, trade the guy that we would be absolutely *screwed* without.... the key to our switching defense our hustle energy and fast break. And not even get a shooter in return.

Pass.

[ShelC]

I just crious because of the BYC thing, but who can Boris be traded for?

[JediSkywalker]

From watching this season here is my take on Amare.......

I dont think he fits our system, and here is why... He is not a center.

marion for camby and najera (or stephen hunter)
marion for odom and turiaf.
marion for chandler and morris peterson.


Marion is too valuable defensivelly. He is like 3 different players. He and Raja are the only strong defensive guys on our team. Besides, I don't think the teams you mentioned would give up their two strong players for even Marion.

[INFORMER]

From watching this season here is my take on Amare.......

I dont think he fits our system, and here is why... He is not a center.

marion for camby and najera (or stephen hunter)
marion for odom and turiaf.
marion for chandler and morris peterson.

STOP.

[Nodack]

That's funny because we used to joke around saying Mark West got called for so many fouls that some claimed he would get called for personal fouls while he was sitting on the bench.

[Nodack]

Sorry, but I have disagree with you on that.

[Nodack]

Thank you Informer.

[OE]

Nodack, thanks for posting again. Having you around makes other more knowledgeable posters post more frequently. It's a momentum thing. When the good guys leave, someone ends up taking their place - and they're the sort that wants to trade half the roster.

That said, while I won't mention any trade scenarios, I would not be against a trade in principle. It's senseless to offer them up, though. What happens is always contrary to intuition. But we shouldn't be trading Amare or Barbs. That much should be obvious. I'm not vehemently opposed to trading Marion as some are because of his deteriorating range, expiring contract, and limited usefulness against San Antonio. That said, the only things we need are a center and a shooter, and if those things cannot be had, then we're best off hoping that this group decides to get angry in May. Realistically, I think that might eventually require benching Boris permanently. We can talk about how is effort is periodically improved, but that sort of effort from Banks gets him nailed to the bench. Unless he starts crashing the boards with some degree of ferocity, we're better off with Skinner taking his minutes.

[OE]

I just crious because of the BYC thing, but who can Boris be traded for?

Just about anyone making near or more than his salary. BYC means that half his salary is counted against us in the calculation of exchanging contracts, so usually, a BYC player can only be traded to a team with cap space who may return a lesser contract in exchange. But in our case, the exception from the KT trade covers the difference between half Boris's salary and Boris's full salary, so we're free to trade him - but only to the Knicks, because, with the departure of Billy King, no other front office his entirely bereft of reason.

... Of course, there are a few knuckleheads still out there, including one in Atlanta, one in Charlotte, one in Cleveland, and one running Clipperland. But there are no deals to make with those teams that would not have even that select crew of GMs laughing hysterically.

[Shabazz]

I just crious because of the BYC thing, but who can Boris be traded for?

Just about anyone making near or more than his salary. BYC means that half his salary is counted against us in the calculation of exchanging contracts, so usually, a BYC player can only be traded to a team with cap space who may return a lesser contract in exchange. But in our case, the exception from the KT trade covers the difference between half Boris's salary and Boris's full salary, so we're free to trade him - but only to the Knicks, because, with the departure of Billy King, no other front office his entirely bereft of reason.



I was under the impression that trade exceptions cannot be combined with outgoing players and their salaries. So any trade involving both a Suns player and the exception would have to, in essence, be two separate trades.

[OE]

I just crious because of the BYC thing, but who can Boris be traded for?

Just about anyone making near or more than his salary. BYC means that half his salary is counted against us in the calculation of exchanging contracts, so usually, a BYC player can only be traded to a team with cap space who may return a lesser contract in exchange. But in our case, the exception from the KT trade covers the difference between half Boris's salary and Boris's full salary, so we're free to trade him - but only to the Knicks, because, with the departure of Billy King, no other front office his entirely bereft of reason.



I was under the impression that trade exceptions cannot be combined with outgoing players and their salaries. So any trade involving both a Suns player and the exception would have to, in essence, be two separate trades.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. NM.

[Superbone]

From watching this season here is my take on Amare.......

I dont think he fits our system, and here is why... He is not a center.

marion for camby and najera (or stephen hunter)
marion for odom and turiaf.
marion for chandler and morris peterson.

STOP.

PLEASE.

[misteradiant]

Somebody suggested a personal big man coach for Amare and I think that would be a great idea.

i was that somebody. so was scosuns. so it's really "sombebodies."

;)

- misteradiant

[misteradiant]

boris to amare:

"here's how to prance around right under the basket," boris takes the ball and does a couple of pirouettes, "and watch how i toss it out for a 19-foot jumpshot." boris stops, does a reverse pirouette and throws the ball overhead."

"now, and i want you to pay close attention, amare, because this is how you get beat for position and miss the offensive rebound..."

boris gets beat by a little girl he inlisted to help.

"and most importantly," he says, "never jump."

yeah. that's the tutoring i imagine.

Haha. I have to admit, that is the funniest thing I have read today. You people are fun. Anyways, yeah. If Diaw was a teacher, he's either in it for little kids, or IDK what else. But, god forbid he EVER teaches anyone anything. I swear, if he holds a summer camp he should be arrested. He doesn't need to poison the minds of young children.

<mrs. lovejoy> won't somebody think of the children!</mrs. lovejoy>

poltergeists are attracted to children, not adults. who gives a flock of seagulls about adults. run. run so far away.

you don't understand what i write and what it means, scosuns. i cannot say it any other way. it's funny that i can be read and understood in ways i don't intend, which means most likely that you shouldn't take much to heart in what you perceive i mean by what i write. but yeah, i'm glad i am at least funny. i try to be.

[misteradiant]

What about Mark West? Don't we still have him around somewhere?

duh! why didn't i know that!

:-?

good idea, 219. why doesn't west tutor amare? has he already taught him all he knows? has he coached him once? who wants to write the republic to find out?

[misteradiant]

From watching this season here is my take on Amare.......

I dont think he fits our system, and here is why... He is not a center.

marion for camby and najera (or stephen hunter)
marion for odom and turiaf.
marion for chandler and morris peterson.

sunsdotcom, why is it that you have a laker as your avatar? and why should i give a shit about a poster that has a laker as an avatar? you are not a suns fan and definitely not from suns.com.

you should change your moniker to sunsdotcon.

[misteradiant]

That's funny because we used to joke around saying Mark West got called for so many fouls that some claimed he would get called for personal fouls while he was sitting on the bench.

but for some reason we still love mark west. and again, amare kicking everybody's ass for 25 is better than amare sucking ass for 30 and 5.

(30 sucking minutes plus 5 kicking ass and still losing minutes)

[misteradiant]

That said...

is god a joke
a construct of our ignorant and unimaginative nature
we must be insane
lost in concepts of time and space without the ability to fully comprehend
neither exists
time is a construct invented by mankind to keep from losing our minds
space is proof of our inability to see the connections between atom
and universes
and infinity
and nothing being everything because
desire is the path to death
where an ounce of spirit lives forever
and we all reside in the center
string theory
the butterfly
quantum fucking sex drive
love and sex and hate and DIE MOTHERFUCKER!
i could go on....
are we really in need of forgiving ourselves
out there for everyone to see like the hypocrite screaming look at me!
flailing our backsides with self-inflicted whips and needles
i did the right thing!
i have abandoned the use of gasoline!
i like god
god came down to find out why we didn't do what we were told
no matter what curse or blessing
god is love
god nailed his ass to a tree and bled impossible dreams of peace
i think god rocks
now where is that girl with my blowjob?

[LazarusLong]

Who has been a true center in this system?

Bzzzzzz, ENHH!

Nobody, really you have a high-post guy, sort of like the 70s and early 80s teams with Alvan Adams.

Amare is fine in his role in this set-up. What's needed is a post presence on D, and Skinner is solid. Maybe another body who could hit outside shots and tagteam with Skinner would help. That would require creativity from D'Antoni and therein lies the rub.

In the 04-05, sometimes that post presence was Amare, sometimes it was Hunter, and sometimes it was even Q (on Defense) because he was good at taking charges and he was a fireplug (6-5 or so and about 240). Don't get too caught up in labels ... it fogs the mind.

Perhaps the Suns have the personnel to make it work. It might take experimenting and the coach has shown a penchant for following the straight and narrow. Before we trade any players, maybe Mike D should invest in some magic mushrooms and loosen up a bit.

Play a team that focuses on defense for a stretch of a couple of minutes. He has the personnel to do so.

Loosen up Mikey. Eat lots of oat bran and unplug. I think it's backed up to your brain, sport.

[LazarusLong]

Is God a joke?

If so, he's the longest running gag in history. I'll respect that.

[misteradiant]

oh yeah. don't fuck with god. he'll kick your ass.

yes, i just laughed out loud.

[LazarusLong]

God is dead -- Nietzsche

Nietzsche is dead -- God (and Freddie got nailed by advanced syphilis ...)

[LazarusLong]

"I am Lilith: I brought life into the whirlpool of force, and compelled my enemy, Matter, to obey a living soul. But in enslaving Life's enemy I made him Life's master; for that is the end of all slavery; and now I shall see the slave set free and the enemy reconciled, the whirlpool become all life and no matter. And because these infants that call themselves ancients are reaching out towards that, I will have patience with them still; though I know well that when they attain it they shall become one with me and supersede me, and Lilith will be only a legend and a lay that has lost its meaning. Of Life only is there no end; and though of its million starry mansions many are empty and many still unbuilt, and though its vast domain is as yet unbearably desert, my seed shall one day fill it and master its matter to its uttermost confines. And for what may be beyond, the eyesight of Lilith is too short. It is enough that there is a beyond."

from Back to Methusalah. George Bernard Shaw.

[SwingMan]

Somebody suggested a personal big man coach for Amare and I think that would be a great idea.

i was that somebody. so was scosuns. so it's really "sombebodies."

;)

- misteradiant

I was thinking along those lines myself a few nights back MR - except with a twist in that it'd benefit both Amare and Matrix. Dig this:

James Worthy.

Anyone who's seen his game over the years knows what I'm talking about. What's he doing these days?

[misteradiant]

I was thinking along those lines myself a few nights back MR - except with a twist in that it'd benefit both Amare and Matrix. Dig this:

James Worthy.

Anyone who's seen his game over the years knows what I'm talking about. What's he doing these days?

appearing on sunsdotcom's avatar. jesus, man, you really know how to steal a guy's thunder. read from the bottom-up, will ya.

:cool: