Wednesday's News: Grant ain't no Hill of beans..... [Archive]

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SwingMan

12-19-2007, 12:39 AM

Hill of an investment for Suns (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1219suns.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/pics/1219sunscov.jpg
Grant Hill: 15.9 points, 4.7 rebounds and 3.6 assists.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 19, 2007 12:24 AM

DALLAS - Grant Hill endured surgeries, visited the brink of death, substituted rehabilitations for vacations and overcame it all, only to be cast as an overpaid villain for missing most of the games while playing out a seven-year, $93 million contract in Orlando.

In that respect, being the NBA's best bargain of this season is a nice change.

"I've gone from one extreme to another," Hill said.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

At a $1.83 million salary this season, Hill brings more bang for the buck than any player not on a rookie contract. The Suns forward is at his healthiest in 10 years. Coach Mike D'Antoni has labeled his play as "All-Star level." And he is winning games for Phoenix.

Who can say if the Suns beat San Antonio on Monday if not for Hill in the final 2:43. He blocked a Tim Duncan shot. He hit a go-ahead jumper with 40 seconds to go and clutch free throws with 10 seconds to go.

"I don't think you can measure how important it is," D'Antoni said of Hill's play.

The salary can't. The stats try. He is averaging 15.9 points, 4.7 rebounds and 3.6 assists. He is shooting 49.7 percent from the field and career-best percentages on three-pointers (35.6) and free throws (87.3).

"The thing people don't realize is he played at that level for about five or six years in this league," said Suns assistant coach Alvin Gentry, who coached Hill while he was in his prime with Detroit in the late 1990s. "It's not anything new.

"You see what he adds to our team and everything he does. I don't see how anybody could possibly be even close (to a better bargain).

"It's great, because as good of a player as he is, he's the most professional human being. He's solid character-wise. I was hurting for him (in the Orlando years). To see him where he is now is extremely satisfying."

The clutch, 17-foot jumper he made Monday to finish a 22-point game was the kind of shot that used to be drawn up for him. Now, with Phoenix, such plays find him wide open, and he shoots them without hesitation late in games.

Moments later, Hill waited until he was out of Duncan's sight and Duncan was into his shot to time a weak-side block.

"I've watched Shawn (Marion) and how he swarms guys going to the hoop," Hill said. "He does a great job on making reads. He's the best at it. In the past five games, I've started to get better at it."

Nobody looked more into Monday's big-game atmosphere than Hill, who has never won a playoff series. He gets to experience it again tonight, when Phoenix closes its first San Antonio-Dallas road trip in 10 seasons. These games with lofty stakes rejuvenate the 35-year-old.

"He's still got about four years left," Dallas' Eddie Jones said of Hill.

Notes

There was a bounce to the Suns' practice Tuesday after beating the Spurs. "It's just a better feeling," D'Antoni said. "We just grinded it out. We're not real sharp sharp offensively, but you've still got to win. You still have to get better. We got better defensively. Our sprit is better."

• D'Antoni, on guard Leandro Barbosa's 19 shots Monday: "He can get a shot anytime he wants. They just can't guard him. He's unbelievable. . . . When he makes those shots, which he will, more times than he misses, we're going to beat them. I'm not touching it."

Tonight's game

Suns at Mavericks

When: 7:30 p.m.
Where: American Airlines Center, Dallas.
TV/radio: My.45, ESPN/KTAR-AM (620).

Mavericks update: The Mavericks (17-9) went through a 3-6 stretch to drop to 12-8 but have come on of late, including three consecutive wins. Josh Howard is putting up career-best stats, and Brandon Bass has come out of nowhere for a major role. Dirk Nowitzki played like a MVP in Monday's victory over Orlando with 31 points4 and 11 rebounds.

Dustbuster

12-19-2007, 07:44 AM

I never have seen this article posted. I think I agree with his assumption regarding who is ticking Nash off.

NBA questions: Who is angering Steve Nash?
By Stan McNeal - SportingNews

Stan McNeal
SportingNews.com

Questions to ponder why wondering if the world has gone all a flitter over the Charlotte (don't call them Hornets) Bobcats after their all-access run on the World Wide Leader:

The Suns lose to the Hornets and Steve Nash is not happy. After the game, he tells reporters, "We're so consistently inconsistent that I'm not surprised. It's very, very disappointing. I wish I could come up with a way to make sure each guy is ready to play. What do you do? Have an interview with each guy before each game to make sure he understands?" OK, so here's the question: At whom is Nash directing his frustration?

My hunch: Amare Stoudemire. Watching Stoudemire play these days is like driving on cruise control. He has too many stretches when he just seems to be coasting. And that's on offense. His main goal on defense is to avoid fouls.

Who's the second-best player on the Lakers?

For my money, Andrew Bynum and this is about right now, not the future. The 20-year-old 7-footer is averaging a double-double (11.1/10.0) and ranks among league leaders in shooting percentage (59.6) and blocked shots (2.05). Kobe Bryant, at least publicly, says he is impressed, and not so much with Bynum's play as the fact that when Kobe shows up in the weight room, Bynum often already is there.

What's the latest on the trade front?

While the league waits for that big Smush Parker deal, the Pistons and Bobcats made a trade of former starting centers that won't do much to affect the balance of power in the East. The Pistons sent C Nazr Mohammed and the three-plus years left on his contract for the expiring contracts of C Primoz Brezec and F Walter Hermann. Mohammed, signed to be the starter when Ben Wallace left for the Bulls in 2006, had fallen behind Jason Maxiell to fourth big man on the roster. Mohammed will get a chance to start for the Bobcats, who have been looking for a better defender and rebounder than Brezec. Neither Brezec nor Hermann are expected to bring much more than salary relief to the Pistons.

What's a must-see game this week?

There's a bunch, four of them coming on Wednesday.

Pistons at Celtics (ESPN). The Pistons get their first opportunity this season to show who is the real beast in the East (check my take Wednesday on why I believe the Pistons have the edge).

Suns at Mavericks (ESPN). Even when the Mavs are struggling, it's always fun to watch Steve Nash show up Mark Cuban.

Magic at Rockets. The league's top two big men square off for the first time this season.

Raptors at Blazers. You read that right. The Blazers are the hottest team west of Boston and the Raptors have become one of the more fun teams to watch with their hustling defense and open-court offense.

Dustbuster

12-19-2007, 07:54 AM

Another trade rumor, although I honestly don't place a lot of stock in it.

Soar spot
After months of turmoil, Kobe Bryant is happy and the Lakers are flying high
Sam Smith
On Pro Basketball

December 18, 2007

Finally, Kobe Bryant playing on the United Center floor.

Not, though, as many here had hoped and many in the media had forecast. Bryant, in Chicago to play the Bulls on Tuesday night, remains in the Lakers' purple and gold. And while almost everybody was figuring out trade scenarios for Bryant and the Bulls, the Lakers have quietly started to become one of the Western Conference's better teams.

Look, no one among the Bulls ever said they didn't want Bryant. There was a distinction: It became clear they couldn't get him.

It was never about not trading Luol Deng. It was about not trading Deng, Kirk Hinrich, Ben Wallace, Joakim Noah and draft picks, or trading Ben Gordon and Tyrus Thomas to get an All-Star once the Lakers started telling teams they'd need at least one All-Star in any deal. And the receiving team would have to take back some bad contracts, like Vladimir Radmanovic's.

And then, assuming Bryant would have dropped his no-trade and opt-out clauses, which was doubtful, the Bulls would have offered him a two-year, $55 million extension that kicked in when he was 33. And then Bryant would have to be satisfied playing with Aaron Gray, Viktor Khryapa, Chris Duhon and Thabo Sefolosha?

The Lakers are 14-9 and 2 ½ games out of first place in the Pacific Division. They seem to have stumbled into being a team that can finish in the top four in the Western Conference and perhaps make a run at a championship.

One could argue the Bulls don't have two players to rival 20-year-old Lakers center Andrew Bynum, averaging a double-double with 11.1 points adn 10.0 rebounds, plus 2.1 blocks per game, and Lamar Odom, averaging a double-double this month. There's also coaching stability with Phil Jackson agreeing to a two-year extension.

Suddenly it's the Lakers who seem to be the well-grounded team. The Bulls are among the early disappointments, joining the Cavs, Heat, Nets and Rockets. Each of those teams is either overrated, enmeshed in internal difficulties that will be revealed later or just off to a slow start and will recover.

What's intriguing is that can also be said of the Mavericks and Suns, who have good records but don't seem to be championship contenders, perhaps because of internal issues. The window of opportunity seems to have closed on them.

No team in the West other than the Spurs appears strong and certain. The Jazz and the Nuggets, both with major defensive deficiencies, are also sliding.

One of the supposed reasons for a Bryant trade to the Bulls was the state of the East. After the Cavaliers reached the Finals last season, there was widespread belief that Bryant and any four men under 50 and not in wheelchairs could get there.

Now that has changed as well.

With off-season deals bringing players like Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Zach Randolph to the East, the margin between East and West is just 69-65 for Western Conference teams this season after being nearly 2-1 for the previous few years.

And the balance of power could rest with Jason Kidd.

Though both teams continue to deny it vehemently, a rival general manager said last week he's still hearing talk of a Nets-Mavs deal involving Kidd.

It's not hard to believe, with the Nets an ongoing mess. They had the most pathetic excuse of the year Saturday, complaining about fatigue after a loss to the Knicks in the second game of a back-to-back. They played Friday night at home, about 8 miles from Madison Square Garden. The Knicks had played in Chicago.

Kidd is said to be upset that Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson have better contracts than he does.

Dallas remains Kidd's most likely destination, but the Lakers are frequently mentioned. The Lakers' refusal to give up Bynum for Kidd last winter now looks awfully smart. The Lakers have Kwame Brown's $9 million expiring contract and some young pieces and draft picks that might make sense for the Nets. And, the Mavs have plenty in reserve to make a deal as well.

Dallas certainly is not the same team despite a little surge recently, and Dirk Nowitzki is at eight-year lows in scoring and rebounding. He could use some help. It seems he and the team need a shakeup after consecutive playoff shockers. Same goes for the Suns after getting close for three playoffs. Steve Nash was uncharacteristically upset after a loss in New Orleans on Saturday.

"I wish I could come up with a way to make sure each guy is ready to play," Nash said. "What do you do? Have an interview with each guy before each game to make sure he understands?

"When we play with energy defensively, we're one of the best defensive teams. When we don't, which is quite frequently, we're one of the worst."

The Suns have been arguing on the court and on the bench, and there has been outspoken criticism of Boris Diaw, who seems a likely trade possibility. Ron Artest remains with a Sacramento team going nowhere and with an opt-out. He has long been on the Lakers' radar. Maybe somebody latches onto Andre Miller for young players and cap relief from the rebuilding 76ers.

And so coming east again are the Lakers: harmonious, confident, controversy-free, playing well and with possibilities.

Just Kobe and his happy band of brothers. Ain't NBA life grand?

I think this writer is selling both the Suns and Mavs short, and I am don't really know what to think about the Diaw rumor. Would something like that motivate Boris? He seems to be more focused the last few games. Perhaps there was a player meeting of some kind.

Regarding the Lakers: I have thought for a while that they were a better team than what their record has indicated the past few years. They are a very BIG team, but still fairly athletic. I don't know what went wrong with the Bulls, but the NBA can be an unpredictable place at times. I thought the Bulls would be one of the stronger teams this year in East. I also didn't think the Celtics would be as good as what they have been. I look forward to the Suns playing them just to see what happens.

Dustbuster

12-19-2007, 08:03 AM

Suns notebook: Suns pull off balancing act (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/104769)

Jerry Brown, Tribune
DALLAS - Coach Mike D’Antoni not only got the big win he wanted Monday, he struck the kind of balance with playing time he’s been looking for all season.

Leandro Barbosa (30), Raja Bell (35), Boris Diaw (30), Grant Hill (32) Shawn Marion (34), Steve Nash (33) and Amaré Stoudemire (32) all played between 30 and 35 minutes and all scored between nine and 22 points in the 100-95 win over the Spurs.

Six of the players took between seven and 12 shots — the exception was Barbosa, who needed 19 shots to get his 18 points. He continues to monopolize the ball — with D’Antoni’s blessing — when Nash sits, despite making Phoenix more predictable in those stretches.

The game showed what D’Antoni feels is the team’s greatest strength against top-flight teams: scoring depth. The rotation stops dead at eight players — with Brian Skinner logging 12-15 minutes — but no one is being overtaxed.

“I didn’t do it by calculator,” he said. “I want everyone between 30 and 35 minutes and it just worked out, and the results were better. I got Steve down to 33, I had Grant on the bench for the last five minutes (of the first half) and that’s because the second group is playing. They lengthened the lead (against the Spurs).”

With Nash, Bell and Stoudemire on the bench, the Suns outscored the Spurs 9-2 over the final three minutes of the third quarter – although that lead evaporated when Barbosa missed three straight shots to open the fourth.

“If we can get the minutes right … we’ll be at the point where if a couple of people are off we’ll be OK, but if everyone is on we’ll blow people out. If we keep Boris and L.B. and Skinny playing well, that will be beneficial.”

Back in the league

After five years as head coach at Pepperdine University and a year as a studio analyst for Fox Sports West doing both Los Angeles Clippers and Lakers games, Suns Ring of Honor member Paul Westphal is back in the NBA as an assistant for the Mavericks, lending a hand — and an ear — to head coach Avery Johnson.

“Unless you’ve been a head coach in this league, you don’t understand how isolating it can be,” said Westphal, who led the Suns to their two NBA Finals appearances as a player (1975-76) and coach (1992-93). “More than anything, that’s a big part of my role.”

Ironically, Suns-killer Mario Elie — who ended another Phoenix playoff run with his “Kiss of Death” 3-pointer for Houston in Game 7 of the 1995 Western Conference semifinals — is also on Johnson’s coaching staff. Elie made his game-winning shot with 7.1 second left, before blowing a kiss in the direction of Westphal and the Phoenix bench.

“The first thing I said to him was 'You shouldn’t have taken that shot from the corner. It was a bad shot,’” Westphal said. “What can I say? That one hurt.”

BONUS SHOTS

While picking up his team-leading 18th double-double Monday (10 points, 10 assists), Steve Nash also led the team in rebounds with eight. …

ESPN has added Phoenix’s March 26 game with the Celtics in Boston to their broadcast schedule.

The game has been moved up 30 minutes and now will tip off at 4 p.m. (Arizona time). ESPN will also televise Boston’s visit to Phoenix on Feb. 22 (8:30 p.m.).

Suns at Mavericks
When: 7:30 p.m. today
Where: AmericanAirlines Center
TV: KUTP (Channel 45), ESPN
Radio: KTAR (620 AM)
Records: Suns 18-7; Mavericks 17-9
Series history: The Suns lead the overall series 68-47, but Dallas has won 13 of the last 23 meetings. The teams split four regular-season games last year for the second straight season.
Scouting report:
Suns – Phoenix closes out a four-game stretch against stiff competition with a chance to go 3-1 and continue a trend that has seen it post a winning record on every road trip this year (11-4 overall). Raja Bell hit only one of six 3-pointers Monday, but it was the 600th trey of his career and left him as one of only 16 players in NBA history to make that many while shooting at least 40 percent. Shawn Marion has played 24,169 minutes as a Sun and is on pace to pass Dick Van Arsdale (24,262) for second place on the all-time Phoenix list on Christmas Day in Los Angeles.

Mavericks – After a very shaky 14-9 start, the Mavericks have won three straight and got 31 points from Dirk Nowitzki in Monday’s win over slumping Orlando. The Mavs are 11-2 at home and 15-0 when shooting a higher percentage than their opponent.

I think it is much easier to get everyone in "acceptable" ranges minute-wise when everyone is producing. Players like Diaw need to demand minutes by their play and energy. We all have agreed that the one guy that should have gotten some more minutes in that game was Skinner, but we did win, so I won't criticize too much.

Wormwood

12-19-2007, 08:17 AM

#7 Tarence Kinsey | GF
Born: March 21, 1984
Tampa, FL
Height: 6-6
Weight: 189 lbs. Age: 23
Pos: GF
College: South Carolina
2008 Salary: $687,456

2006-07 season: Who dat? An undrafted rookie out of South Carolina, Kinsey appeared from the ether to take over a starting job late in the season, and played well enough that it seems he'll be here for some time. The 6-6 wing averaged 18.8 points per game in eight April contests, and his overall numbers weren't too shabby either. Most notably, Kinsey had the second-highest rate of steals among small forwards.

The one red flag is that Kinsey shot amazingly well on long 2-pointers -- some would say flukishly well. He hit 48.6 percent from that distance, an area most players make around 40 percent from, and what makes it more interesting is that he's not regarded as much of a shooter. By comparison, he shot virtually the same percentage -- 48.7 percent -- on close-in shots. Maybe he's just a really good midrange shooter, but color me dubious that he can repeat that effort.

Scouting report: Kinsey can get out in transition for easy buckets and, last year at least, knocked down midrange jumpers repeatedly. He's also a quality athlete who isn't going to need to score a ton to keep his spot on the roster, because he has the agility to defend NBA wing players. Surprisingly, he did very little on the boards -- he ranked 57th among small forwards in rebound rate.

An even bigger shock is his paltry blocked shot total -- one all season. Kinsey had the lowest blocked-shot rate of any NBA small forward, which is jaw-dropping news considering the athleticism he showed.

2007-08 outlook: Kinsey should have more opportunity to make a name for himself, as he should one of the Grizzlies' top wing reserves. How bright his future is depends in large part on his ability to make shots. He doesn't have much of a 3-point stroke (28.3 percent), and I suspect the long 2s will prove more troublesome for him this year than they were a year ago. So he might have to develop his game in other areas to make up for it.

I'd be interested in signing this guy to a minimum contract, and sending both Tucker and Strawberry to the D-league together to build chemistry and get minutes in case anyone really does go down. Kinsey is the kind of high energy shooter we could use. Gets out on the break well, produces steals, shoots the mid range shot very well.

Dustbuster

12-19-2007, 08:22 AM

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/images/photos/2007/12/18/eax5rjw.jpg

Suns’ defense not always a punch line for opponents (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/104772)

Jerry Brown, Tribune
DALLAS - Mike D’Antoni knows he’s as guilty as anybody. The Suns have been so panned for their aversion to defense, even efforts worthy of recognition get lost in a flurry of tongue-in-cheek comments.

And after the Suns closed out San Antonio with mixture of timely blocked shots, steals and chest-to-chest defense Monday, D’Antoni started off his comments with a few one-liners before stopping himself.

“You know, I joke around a little bit, but we’re better. We’re not bad,” D’Antoni said, preaching to several national writers in town to cover the showdown. “Our offense has sputtered the last two weeks, but in the games that we’ve won in the fourth quarter, we’ve shut some people down.”

The consistency is still maddeningly absent. The commitment is still iffy at best. But the Suns have shown some late-game grit in several games and have even leaned on it at times. They could use more of the same tonight as they close out a tough four-game stretch in Dallas against the surging Mavericks, who have steadied the ship with three straight wins after an ugly run that saw them lose seven out of 12.

The same Suns team that allowed New Orleans to run through them like water in the first half of Saturday’s loss held the Hornets to 41 points in the second half and gave the offense a chance to steal the game. In last week’s win over Utah, the Suns blocked 13 shots.

And against the Spurs, the Suns had three steals and a block in the final three minutes and didn’t allow a Tim Duncan field goal for the final 7:21. San Antonio missed 18 of 23 3-pointers, often with a Suns player rotating and hustling to get a hand in their face.

“They deserve some credit for that,” Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. “They closed out well. They contested our threes very, very well. They did a good job.”

Funny – but there was no punch line afterward.

Grant Hill, who added a new wrinkle to the Suns-Spurs rivalry with 22 points, seven rebounds and three assists, gets his first taste of Phoenix-Dallas tonight. The Suns, meanwhile, see Dallas for the first time with their new pieces – guard Eddie Jones and forward Brandon Bass.

“(The additions) changes things up,” D’Antoni said. “We have new faces, they have new faces and you have to account for that. The Dallas team we see now and the one we see in (February) and then at the end of the season will be different teams, they will stress different things and do different things.

jed

12-19-2007, 08:56 AM

It's obvious that Steve is talking about Amare in his recent quotes. That and coach's ire toward Stat is what makes me think he's the odd man out.

Amare wants to be the focal point of the offense and probably should. Steve is trying to make everyone happy, which me maybe should become less concerned about. Coach is all about trying to get Diaw jump-started and letting Barbosa shoot all day long.

It just seems like it's souring.

wpmiller42

12-19-2007, 09:30 AM

MTSunsFan

12-19-2007, 09:37 AM

That is what I just don't get. Coach will coddle Diaw & Barbs in the media until the cows come home -- and often times undeserving just to "protect" them -- and he won't do the same w/ the franchise big man? And Nash has been knocked his entire career for his porous defense, and now all of sudden he's calling out Amare for his lack of D? And why isn't anyone calling out Nash for his horrible shooting % as of late? The team has known all along that Amare's strength is his offensive game. It makes more sense to me to play to this strength and to put an athletic defensive minded big man next him to pick up his slack on D and free him up to put the ball in the hoop. Worm mentioned trading Amare for Camby. Imagine the offensive damage Amare could do WITH Camby -- just an example...

Wormwood

12-19-2007, 09:42 AM

Part of the problem is that teams are keying defensively on Amare. That's part of the reason Leandro can get open so easily. Teams are consistently double-teaming Amare even before he has the ball. It just seems like teams are more willing to let Leandro try to beat them than Amare.

That being said, I don't think it would be the worse thing in the world to "force" it every now and then to Amare. And this isn't something that Coach D'Antoni has to do, it's something that maybe Leandro has to do. Plus, it develops his distribution skills.

I love Leandro and I don't think anyone should "limit" his shooting, but I think if he consciously looks for Amare it's going to make the game easier for both of them, and build our future dynamic.

Good point wp. Most teams are basically daring us to shoot by packing the paint and immediately doubling Amare when he gets it on the block. I'd rather us take the open shot, though, than have Amare forcing things and drawing offensive fouls and making turnovers.

Also of note, check out these stats for two man units from 82games.com.

http://82games.com/0708/0708PHOP.HTM

Note that the best pairing per 48 minutes is.... (drumroll please) Skinner and Amare!

Someone should show that tpo D'Antoni to show that slowing down a little so we can defend and get rebounds doesn't wreck the team.

wpmiller42

12-19-2007, 10:56 AM

Good point wp. Most teams are basically daring us to shoot by packing the paint and immediately doubling Amare when he gets it on the block. I'd rather us take the open shot, though, than have Amare forcing things and drawing offensive fouls and making turnovers.

Also of note, check out these stats for two man units from 82games.com.

http://82games.com/0708/0708PHOP.HTM

Note that the best pairing per 48 minutes is.... (drumroll please) Skinner and Amare!

Someone should show that tpo D'Antoni to show that slowing down a little so we can defend and get rebounds doesn't wreck the team.

I agree that, more often than not, we should take the open shot. And when Leandro is on, he's going to drop 30+ on people and we'll probably win easily.

Honestly, the play I miss from the Suns the most is when Boris would be in the high post, and Shawn Marion would fake a back pick, but then slip under. Boris would lob it up to Marion for the backdoor dunk. Seemingly, this play should also work with Amare, and more easily too! Amare is already setting screens trying to get the pick and roll going with Steve. Get Amare on the low post, have him set a false pick for Boris and go up for the alley oop. This should be easier for Boris because he just has to throw it up there and Amare is going to get it.

And I love the idea of playing Amare and Skinner more. Skinner does not slow down the break; in fact, it increases because we get the rebound and quick outlet.

Wormwood

12-19-2007, 11:06 AM

I'd noticed this about Skinner too wp. He is actually good at making the quick outlet pass after the rebound, and displays pretty good court awareness. I'd say he'd facilitate more breaks than the number his size costs us.

Shabazz

12-19-2007, 12:27 PM

-I actually think Nash was talking about Diaw with that quote. He's been the inconsistent one, and Nash has basically said that the team called him out on his passive play recently. Plus, Nash didn't say anything about defense; he was really talking about effort.

-I'm a Kinsey fan too. I'd love for us to get him for a minimum deal, of course there are a few problems: 1 - As we all know his contract is doubled because of the tax. It'll probably take a player of LeBron's caliber to make Sarver pony up for a minimum contract. 2 - We're pretty deep at the swingman position. 3 - He couldn't get time on a pretty bad Memphis team. 4 - D'Antoni is too in love with his 8 man rotation, and if he would open it up to 9, I'd rather see guys like Banks, Tucker or DJ get a crack at spot #9 first.

-One thing that's impresses me about Skinner is the fact that he doesn't seem to need time to adjust or warm up when he gets in the game. Coach seems to like putting him in halfway through the 2nd quarter, and Skinny comes in with energy right off the bat and usually sticks his 1st jumper.

Xcon

12-19-2007, 12:30 PM

Also, I friggin love Brian Skinner guarding the basket. He's really a pretty good shot blocker. I've seen him alter people's plans to take it to the hole on numerous occassions. With him and Amare out there and Marion at the same time, people arent able to do the layup drills like they normally do on us.

EDC

12-19-2007, 12:32 PM

Amare up to 56.8% from the field. I'm sure glad that Coach D is fine with Barbs jackin the shots. It seems that Amare gets complacent out there on offense when they are passing it around the top of the key or just dribbling it around. He then starts to drift away from the basket. I'm not sure if I would call Amare complacent compared to the other players on the court. The other 3 that are standing on the 3 point line watching Nash dribble the ball around. :)

I'd love to have a coach that knows how to use a big man. Good win either way though.

Nate

12-19-2007, 12:58 PM

scosuns

12-19-2007, 01:10 PM

Well, at least since Monday night, it hasn't been that bad. I mean, whenever you win its fine, and when you lose its like the sky is falling. Anyways, tonights game should be a good one. Don't know if we will win because the Mavs have been better of late, but, it still should be entertaining.

darrkin

12-19-2007, 01:11 PM

Wormwood

12-19-2007, 01:29 PM

One other though on Kinsey. Does he remind anyone else of Kerry Kittles before his knees went out on him?

Superbone

12-19-2007, 02:28 PM

-I'm a Kinsey fan too.

Yep, he really changed the way we think about sex.

misteradiant

12-19-2007, 02:30 PM

That being said...

god wants more:

giving way to the dream of war
of murder
of subjugation for an enemy
that becomes ourselves
why the lies
why the greed and destruction
i see the earth being hollowed out
i see her trying to shake us off
katrina
the synonym for hate
when a country is judged by its deeds
judged by how it cares for its least
judged by the world
we won't be forgotten
but we cannot go on this way
dug from a mass grave
a thousand years from now
wonder how they survived so long
they never took the word of their prophet and lived it
dead neighbor
killing strangers
george bush is the greatest surrealist ever

SpecialSauce

12-19-2007, 02:31 PM

I love the Suns.

with that being said.........with that being said.......with that being said...........with that being said................with that being said..................with that being said......................with that being said..............with that being said...................................

misteradiant

12-19-2007, 02:34 PM

Also of note, check out these stats for two man units from 82games.com.

http://82games.com/0708/0708PHOP.HTM

Note that the best pairing per 48 minutes is.... (drumroll please) Skinner and Amare!

should we start brian? if so, who do we bench? raja? grant? or should brian be the 6th man rather than leandro and come in at the 6 minute mark of the first? anybody have other ideas?

darrkin

12-19-2007, 02:37 PM

I have ideas, but none of them are very good.....

misteradiant

12-19-2007, 02:38 PM

with that being said.........with that being said.......with that being said...........with that being said................with that being said..................with that being said......................with that being said..............with that being said...................................

pulling you out:

i pick at my moustache
pulling the hairs out
the roots are white
i could care less
it feels interesting
to feel the skin coil tighter around the hole i make in my face each time

_________

darrkin, all ideas are good. except trade scenario ideas. they suck.

;)

SpecialSauce

12-19-2007, 02:42 PM

woo!!

FrontRowSun

12-19-2007, 02:49 PM

should we start brian? if so, who do we bench? raja? grant? or should brian be the 6th man rather than leandro and come in at the 6 minute mark of the first? anybody have other ideas?

This seems easy to me. We bench Grant to save the minutes.

Nash
Raja
Marion
Amare
Skinner

If the lineup loses punch with Marion at the three, then swap Raja for LB. Grant, Boris, & either Raja or LB would look pretty nice to me.

Also, we should be focusing on Amare on the offensive end. Everyone knows that superstars need to be fed the ball on offense if you want to keep them interested on defense.

The problem is that Dantoni doesn't prefer players like Amare. He loves the Diaw's, Barbosa's, & Hill's, but doesn't know exactly what to do with the traditional low post players.

It's freaking maddening to watch the substitution patterns of our coach.

jed

12-19-2007, 03:00 PM

Coach is saving Amare the wear and tear of post play for the post season. Its just a way of preserving Amares health and having him play out his contract instead of watching the last two years from the Platinum Club.

Yes, much in the same way that the Lakers are saving Kobe, Cleveland is saving LeBron, and San Antone is saving Duncan.

Wait...

misteradiant

12-19-2007, 03:02 PM

This seems easy to me. We bench Grant to save the minutes.

Nash
Raja
Marion
Amare
Skinner

If the lineup loses punch with Marion at the three, then swap Raja for LB. Grant, Boris, & either Raja or LB would look pretty nice to me.

Also, we should be focusing on Amare on the offensive end. Everyone knows that superstars need to be fed the ball on offense if you want to keep them interested on defense.

The problem is that Dantoni doesn't prefer players like Amare. He loves the Diaw's, Barbosa's, & Hill's, but doesn't know exactly what to do with the traditional low post players.

It's freaking maddening to watch the substitution patterns of our coach.

that was my initial thought, benching grant and saving him so he can play 30 a game instead of 35. i think skinner ought to get at least 20 , if not 25, minutes a game.

i doubt coach would put raja on the bench, even though i've suggested benching raja before. if the lineup didn't work, it would go back to how it was and skinner would come off the bench.

a lot of folks here have been upset that amare is not being utilized in the best way. i have to agree. that leads to wondering why. many ideas have been floated but it seems that he has done it to himself, fearing those offensive fouls. hopefully amare can overcome this obstacle and figure out a way to get those momentum-changing dunks more frequently.

Velo

12-19-2007, 03:10 PM

i think that grant hill was given a promise to start before he signed. hill is going to start at our 3 spot for the whole year.

skinner is not starting unless you bench raja or marion.

misteradiant

12-19-2007, 03:20 PM

so you think it's not going to happen, huh?

sniff.... it would be so cool.... snif...

INFORMER

12-19-2007, 03:34 PM

Nate

12-19-2007, 03:58 PM

Yes, much in the same way that the Lakers are saving Kobe, Cleveland is saving LeBron, and San Antone is saving Duncan.

Wait...

Wait...,Jed, me thinks you missed the sarcasm.

Most of the board is crying that our coach is burning our players out by playing them too many minutes. Still, for a myriad of reasons, Amare is averaging a career low in minutes played average. Accordingly, his average production is going down. Additionally, he is not used as a primary scoring option. That means less wear and tear. We should we happy at that meaningless time of the season, shouldnt we. Championchips are won in May and June and not in..
Or so we have read time and time again around here.
In that respect, I would say: Mission accomplished.

In earnest: There are times where we should look more for Amare. On the other hand, games are won more often than not with balanced scoring instead of an all dominating scoring option. If Kobe or Duncan score in bunches, their respective teams loose more often than when their teams scoring is more balanced. The same was true for Jordans Bulls and lots of other teams in the past.

Its true for us, too. If Nash has his great scoring nights, we loose more than usual. When Amare scored at will against Duncan, we were out quicker than any other year. Im all for trying to go to Amare a little bit more, especially early in the game and after halftime, but not more. Its just too risky that he picks up offensive fouls, and often he is just as valuable as a threat on the field who is keeping the D honest. When the D is respecting this threat and commiting bodies to keep him off the ball, he already is helping the team a big deal.

jed

12-19-2007, 04:14 PM

It's very simple, Nate. This team does very well when Amare is allowed to dominate. We falter when we choose other routes.

People can say all they want about his defense -- which needs to be addressed -- but this has been the fact of things for us for quite awhile now. Nothing's changed that.

Superbone

12-19-2007, 04:46 PM

i think that grant hill was given a promise to start before he signed. hill is going to start at our 3 spot for the whole year.

skinner is not starting unless you bench raja or marion.

Can you imagine Marion's reaction if he was removed from the starting lineup? Woo...

Superbone

12-19-2007, 04:48 PM

Wormwood

12-19-2007, 04:49 PM

I think Hill is enough of a verteran to be able to do what's right for the team. If we asked him to come off the bench so Skinner could guard TD, I have a hard time believing he'd get pissy. Nothing in his career suggests it. In fact, but taking the SUns very low offer of 1.8 million per, it shows he's willing to do what it takes to win, even at his own expense.

Shabazz

12-19-2007, 05:19 PM

I like the starting lineup as is.

Skinner has been a revelation and is obviously a huge bargain, but he's better suited as a backup. If we insterted him into the starting linup in favor of Grant it would negatively impact our offense in a few ways. For starters, Skinner is a very sizeable downgrade offensively from Hill. Beyond that we'd have only two guys capable of hitting the 3 consistently and Marion's effectiveness on offense would be lessened by matching up against 3s.

IMO the negative impact on the offense would be greater than the positive one on defense.

In a seven game series against the Spurs it wouldn't be a bad option, but not for the regular season.

If we were to make a starting lineup change, I like the Barbosa-Bell switch a lot better, but no way D'antoni considers that one.

AlanS

12-19-2007, 06:10 PM

D'Antoni: I didn’t do it by calculator,” he said. “I want everyone between 30 and 35 minutes and it just worked out, and the results were better.

WTF? I thought D'Antoni didn't care about minutes? But the key for Coach Mike isn't minutes, it's productivity. For example, Boris would get a lot more minutes - and other players less - if Boris would stop playing like a girl. If we can stop blowing leads when Steve or Stat go to the bench, we'd be ok.

Sam Smith: Diaw seems a likely trade possibility.

Reality check: Right now, Diaw is untrade-able. No GM in his right mind would want an underachieving tweener who's getting $9M a year. The only way to get rid of Boris is to give up Amare and the ATL pick... which basically means giving up, and blowing up this team.

MTSunsFan: That is what I just don't get. Coach will coddle Diaw & Barbs in the media until the cows come home -- and often times undeserving just to "protect" them

Just to be clear: D'Antoni has recently called Diaw out, in articles that have been posted on this forum. He hasn't "called out" LB, but, LB has been inconsistent, not consistently bad. There's really no need to castigate LB in the media, yet... if you assume that it is necessary for coaches to call out players in the media in the first place. (PS: I don't.)

MTSunsFan: And why isn't anyone calling out Nash for his horrible shooting % as of late?

Ha, I've made mention of that a couple of times. You are right though, it seems like people go ballistic on everybody who plays poorly except Nash.

Wormwood: Note that the best pairing per 48 minutes is.... (drumroll please) Skinner and Amare! Someone should show that tpo D'Antoni to show that slowing down a little so we can defend and get rebounds doesn't wreck the team.

Hey, what makes you think D'Antoni isn't aware of that stat? Here's the problem: Skinner is the only real big man on this team behind Amare. That requires them to play on a platoon basis, so it's hard to have them playing together. If Amare plays 35 minutes, and Skinner 20, then they'll only have 7 minutes a game play at the same time (assuming one guy is subbing for the other). So, minutes wise, the two of them playing together is difficult, even though it does seem to be a winning combination.

wpmiller42: Honestly, the play I miss from the Suns the most is when Boris would be in the high post, and Shawn Marion would fake a back pick, but then slip under. Boris would lob it up to Marion for the backdoor dunk. Seemingly, this play should also work with Amare, and more easily too!

The problem is, everybody in the world is hip to that play. I've watched two Suns' games where Marion got an alley-oop dunk in the halfcourt, and the announcer said, "Somebody isn't reading the scouting report. Everybody knows that Marion is going to slip a pick and go for an alley-oop. Whoever blew that defensive assignment needs to sit with an asst coach and get the riot act read to him." It's just hard to pull that particular play off because everybody knows it's coming.

jed: It's obvious that Steve is talking about Amare in his recent quotes. That and coach's ire toward Stat is what makes me think he's the odd man out.

See, it just don't get that Steve is obviously talking about Amare. What makes it so obvious?

FrontRowSun: The problem is that Dantoni doesn't prefer players like Amare. He loves the Diaw's, Barbosa's, & Hill's, but doesn't know exactly what to do with the traditional low post players.

??? Amare led the Suns in scoring by a large margin in 04/05, and he was 2nd team All-NBA. Amare also led the Suns in scoring last season, despite averaging just 32 minutes, and he also made 1st Team All-NBA. By any measure, Amare has been one of the top big men in the league, and flourishing under D'Antoni. He wouldn't be leading the Suns in scoring if he wasn't getting a lot of shots. I think D'Antoni loves and prefers Amare a lot.

misteradiant: a lot of folks here have been upset that amare is not being utilized in the best way. i have to agree. that leads to wondering why. many ideas have been floated but it seems that he has done it to himself, fearing those offensive fouls. hopefully amare can overcome this obstacle and figure out a way to get those momentum-changing dunks more frequently.

Hmmm... was anybody worried about the way Amare was being used when he scored 42 points a few weeks ago?

My own view is: it's obvious to me Amare that is sub-par physically, the same way Nash is. I saw the Suns live a few weeks ago. Compared to that, he lacks the explosiveness and height on his finishes he had back then. I don't know if he's just physically impaired, or if he's impaired and hurting, but he's not the same player.

As such, I give Amare kudos for playing through this. But I acknowledge and agree, his loss of productivity is a problem. This is a case where other things, such as the Suns' defense and other players' productivity, have to be stepped-up.

JediSkywalker

12-21-2007, 10:09 PM