Monday's News: Don't pass the f*cking salt [Archive]

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SwingMan

12-16-2007, 09:55 PM

(The latest from Bob Young's blog)

No love lost (http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/BobYoung/12801)

For years, the Lakers have been the focus of almost every Suns fan's angst.

It seemed like every time the Suns had a team that was capable of doing something big, the Lakers came up with something bigger.

Like Wilt. Or Kareem. Or Shaq.
When second names aren't necessary, you know they're big.

Anyway, other than maybe being a little annoyed by Phil Jackson, there really is no particular reason for Suns fans to despise the Lakers.

Now the San Antonio Spurs, that's another story.

The Suns and Spurs were becoming an honest-to-goodness rivalry even before last season's Western Conference semifinals series. But that 4-2 Spurs series victory has taken the rivalry - at least from the Suns' end - to a whole different level.

It had a little bit of everything:

• Blood - From Steve Nash's obliterated nose that kept him off the floor in the crucial final moments of Game 1, which the Suns lost at US Airways Center.

• Sweat - Which was all the Suns could do before learning that Amaré Stoudemire and Boris Diaw would be suspended from Game 5 for "leaving the immediate vicinity of the bench during an altercation," even though Tim Duncan appeared to do the same thing earlier in the game.

• Tears - Which is all the Suns had to show for their effort after the Spurs won Game 5 in Phoenix, then closed the Suns out in Game 6 back in San Antonio and went on to another NBA championship.

Tonight, the Suns visit the Spurs in the first meeting of the two clubs since that controversial matchup.

To stoke your fires for such a big game, The Heat Index takes you through the history of the Suns-Spurs rivalry by the numbers:

1 A hip check from Robert Horry in a Spurs loss on their home court in Game 4 last spring altered the series and will never be forgotten by Phoenix fans.

1.8 Seconds on the clock when Charles Barkley drilled a 20-foot jump shot over David Robinson as the Suns closed the old HemisFair Arena by eliminating the Spurs from the 1993 playoffs.

2 Victories. The Suns are ahead in the regular-season series with the Spurs (65-63).

4 Larry O'Brien Trophies on Tim Duncan's mantle.

6 Stitches needed to close the gash on Steve Nash's schnoz after Tony Parker collided with him in Game 1 of last season's playoff series.

8 Playoff meetings with the Spurs have yielded only three series victories for the Suns.

21 Uniform number of the guy possibly most responsible for the Spurs' victory in Game 3 of last season's playoff series. No, not Duncan. We mean referee Tim Donaghy.

23 Points for Penny Hardaway in Game 4 of the 2000 playoff series that eliminated the defending-champion Spurs 3-1. It was the highlight of Hardaway's injury-plagued stay in Phoenix.

25 Feet Stephon Marbury's game-winning bank shot traveled as the buzzer sounded in overtime of Game 1 in the teams' 2003 playoff series. However, the Spurs rallied to win the series.

48 Points from Manu Ginobili in a memorable January 2005 regular-season San Antonio overtime victory in Phoenix, the all-time series high in scoring.

62 Number of regular-season victories by the surprising Suns in 2004-05. It led the NBA but did not impress the Spurs, who eliminated Phoenix 4-1 in the Western Conference final that season.

1,000 Years before Suns fans forgive, or at least forget, David Stern's ruling on the Stoudemire and Diaw suspensions in Game 5 of last season's Western Conference semifinals.

SwingMan

12-16-2007, 11:42 PM

Suns to face Spurs, Horry (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1216suns1217.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/pics/1216horry.jpg
Robert Horry hip-checks Steve Nash into the scorer's table during the Western Conference finals in San Antonio last season.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 16, 2007 11:15 PM

SAN ANTONIO - Robert Horry was on an elevator with a married couple in San Diego this summer when the woman said, "Uh, you look familiar."

The couple, who Horry said own a share of the Suns, might have recognized him better if the San Antonio forward had turned to the side and lowered a shoulder as if to give one of them a body check into the elevator's button panel.

The image of Horry slamming Steve Nash into the scorer's table is burned into the minds of Suns fans, many of whom blame the suspensions it caused for Phoenix's second-round ouster by the Spurs.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

As the Suns return to the scene of the incident tonight for the first Suns-Spurs game of this season, you might be surprised by who feels wronged by an ordeal that got Phoenix's Boris Diaw and Amaré Stoudemire suspended for Game 5 for leaving the bench after Horry's Game 4 hit.

"Last time I played the Phoenix Suns, I got bamboozled," Horry said, "because I got a two-game suspension and I only deserved a one-game suspension.

"I'm from the old school. When I came in the league, during the playoffs, foul hard; no blood, no flagrant foul. It was just a hard foul. My intention was to take a charge, but I got there too late. Of course, when you've got 150 (pounds) meets 250, 150 is going to go flying. It's all good. You learn from it and move on."

Easy for the man with seven championship rings to say. Phoenix is pining for one, and the Spurs are in the way.

"It changes everything in the sense that we didn't get a definite answer," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said of the suspensions. "We might not have liked the answer anyway."

Over the past three seasons and playoffs, the Suns are 6-15 against the Spurs. That makes for a tough assumption that Phoenix would have prevailed if not for the suspensions.

"I'm tired of these people who don't play basketball or don't play sports saying if that wouldn't have happened, guys wouldn't have got suspended and the outcome would've been different," Horry said. "If they were that smart and knew the outcome, they'd be in Vegas, betting and gambling and be millionaires."

Nash said he has "nothing against Robert at all." The hit is on a list of irksome events for Nash from that series with Spurs that included guard Bruce Bowen's Game 3 knee to his groin and an untimely Game 1 gash on his nose.

"We probably didn't play well enough," Nash said. "I don't know if it's psychological or physical, mental or emotional, but we haven't beat them. In some ways, it (a psychological hold) is there, but that should make it all the sweeter and more enticing to do what it takes to win."

Nash is more infuriated with how his team has been playing of late - lacking consistent energy and focus.

"It drives me nuts to not have the foresight to realize what you're doing to yourself when you come out and just punch the clock," Nash said.

Tonight, he faces the team model for unity and defense. The Spurs (18-5) are 13-0 at home despite injuries that had Tim Duncan out and likely will keep Tony Parker out tonight. Usually slow to warm up, the Spurs are in form now.

"We're a team, like a lot of teams out there, that is trying to figure out what makes them successful," Suns forward Grant Hill said. "We play to our level of competition. I'm not saying that's a good thing. It's something we need to fix. With the level of competition in these next two games, we should be ready to come out and battle. I can't make promises in terms of wins, but I think the energy level will be at an all-time high."

Monday's game

Suns at Spurs

When: 6:30 p.m.
Where: AT&T Center.
TV/radio: My 45/KTAR-AM (620).

Spurs update: Center Francisco Elson (ankle) is out. Guard Tony Parker (ankle) is doubtful.

SwingMan

12-17-2007, 12:10 AM

Riverwalk ramblings (http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/12809)

In honor of a Suns team that rarely gives you anything consistent, here's a hodgepodge of a blog post ...

* Trivia so enticing that you just might read to the bottom to get the answer: Steve Nash has one blocked shot this season. Do you remember who he rejected like an overdrawn credit card?

* Mike D'Antoni on Saturday's final play: "He (Steve Nash) just through that he was making the right play. I told him that I probably should have called time out. Then he goes, 'What, to call the same play?' I go, 'Probably.' It was just one of those deals. It always will come to that. We don't lose it there. You either win it there but you don't lose it there. You lose it on the other stops. Somehow, we just have to try to find some grit that we don't have right now. Hopefully, we can find it."

* Shawn Marion said he didn't have a feel for the game after he airballed a potential game-winner, implying that he's not part of the offense enough. You wonder about how everyone feels their piece of the pie but look at field goal attempts and it's really remarkable how balanced Nash keeps it. Amare Stoudemire (285 FGAs), Steve Nash (292), Grant Hill (298), Shawn Marion (318) and Leandro Barbosa (338) are pretty close and that's with Stoudemire missing three games. If Marion is trying to make the case, he could point to shots per minute because he has played more than anyone -- 180 minutes more than Barbosa and 215 more than Stoudemire.

* More trivia, but without a question: Suns Pharaoh of Media Factoids, Vince Kozar, tells us that Raja Bell is one three-pointer away from his 600th career three-pointer and that it would make him the 16th player to do so while shooting at least 40 percent from beyond the arc. The others include a familiar Suns GM (Steve Kerr), some snaggle-toothed guy (Steve Nash), another couple of ex-Suns (Wesley Person, Pat Garrity and Jeff Hornacek) and the nephew of a Suns Ring of Honor member (Hubert Davis). The others are Dana Barros, Kyle Korver, Brent Barry, Mark Price, Allan Houston, Dell Curry, Peja Stojakovic, Glen Rice and Dale Ellis (whose name is one word, according to my friend Rojo Grande).

* Saturday's lost stat: Boris Diaw's eight assists in 20 minutes. I know that's not what you want but that's being involved. Someone has to pass the ball to make all the shooters happy.

* A Hornets' postgame sheet identified the Suns coach as Mark D'Antoni. Isn't he the Michigan State football coach?

* Best NBA dance team name: Luvabulls (Chicago) or Honeybees (New Orleans)?

* Trivia answer: Sacramento's Francisco Garcia. See if he comes in the lane again on Nash.

* Lastly, this is a big enough game by December standards to get some score predictions from y'all. San Antonio ___, Phoenix ____. Or for you optimists: Phoenix ____, San Antonio _____. Hey, Grant Hill is talking about the team bringing an all-time energy high tonight. There's probably no Tony Parker. But there's that nasty little lost 15 of the last 21 meetings thing.

y2jjedipimp

12-17-2007, 02:04 AM

Horry you are such a piece of shit it's not even funny. trying to draw a charge my ass. Yeah Horry you were "bamboozled"the last time you were here. You are lucky that you didnt leave with broken bones. You're lucky it wasn't in Phoenix. Had it been It may have been a reinactment of the Pacers Pistons brawl (or atleast that is what I want to picture it in my mind. I'd settle for the fans just dousing you with luke warm beers flying from the crowd). Someday that play will come back to haunt you. Whether it be in this league or further down the road it will come back to you and then you will hopefully sday, "Damn. I wish I wasnt such a piece of shit."

This game will jumpstart the Suns. Until now they havent had a reason to get up for a game. They will be ready. They will remember. Somebody tell Skinner to put Horry on his ass.

Message to the Spurs:

No Parker, No Donaghy. The Suns are coming. Who will save you now?

Bogyo

12-17-2007, 03:42 AM

12-17-2007, 04:14 AM

What bothers me is that we have so much more talent than the Spurs, and yet, they win.

triplethreat06

12-17-2007, 04:30 AM

What bothers me is that we have so much more talent than the Spurs, and yet, they win.

Yeah and the fact that they don't take a single play off while we waltz through our games like we've won something.

triplethreat06

12-17-2007, 04:51 AM

Man, that Game 4 was SUPPOSED to be our exorcism of all the demons our critics and foes had piled on us, and BAM Robert Horry does his hitjob. I swear other basketball fans will NEVER EVER understand the feeling we all felt that night as that collective monkey began to slide off our backs only to stomp on our ass. He better have security detail when they come to Phoenix.

No game of ours in SA has been anything less than a knock-down drag-out affair. It'll be scrappy but our guys are full of rage and ready to bust some ass. Amare holds his own against Duncan, Raja's shots will fall, and Diaw might surprise us tonight...

...scratch that last one actually. 8 assists and a decent effort last game, expecting Doris Dolittle in action tonight.

frezix

12-17-2007, 09:00 AM

the main difference is that the spurs play smart. When the bench was in, they executed an offense, and a crap player like Matt Bonner came in and have 25 and 17. If any of you watched that game against the lakers the other night, you know that its still a drive and kick game, and when their shooters were open, they made shots. They have guile, and wit. Something we seem to lack.

Dustbuster

12-17-2007, 10:12 AM

What's up with JR Jones this year? He's averaging almost 10 per game and over 3 rebounds in only 21 minutes. Furthermore, he's shooting over 56% from the field and over 61% from deep. He also still shooting 100% from the line. What's even more amazing is that Portland is actually winning a lot of games (six in a row right now). Did anyone expect them to be playing .500 ball at this point in the season without having Oden and Miles?

Remember the good old days when guys had career years when they came to Phoenix? JR was basically in a shooting funk the whole last season, but he is doing perfectly in Portland what we wanted him to do here. Portland says, "thanks, Sarver, for the draft picks and players on isle 2 at such a great discount!"

What's up with Utah? They really, really can't play on the road. Hard to believe they are only a game and a half AHEAD of Portland in their division right now.

It's sad when you look at the standings and realize that the Suns lost back to back against the worst team in each conference.

TheHawk

12-17-2007, 10:55 AM

Sorry for being a stick in the mud, but any chance we could get thread titles that aren't riddled with f*ck, sh*t, and the like? Swingy, I really do appreciate the work you put in to get all of the news in one place for us, but the title commentary has gotten a little over the top lately... not to mention quite negative. If I'm alone in this thought, forgive me, I will just ignore them in the future.

Shabazz

12-17-2007, 10:55 AM

Didn't see this posted:

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/104663

Suns at early crossroads — make changes or stand pat?

Jerry Brown, Tribune
SAN ANTONIO - On the surface, the offseason changes the Suns have made appear to be for the better.
Grant Hill is in the midst of a renaissance season and gives the Suns another shooting, slashing weapon. Brian Skinner has produced off the bench, offering a reasonably priced facsimile to Kurt Thomas.

But is this Suns team any better equipped to win a championship? Can they really get their hooks into a top-flight team when games and titles are won and lost?

And when you ask that, you’re really saying, “Do they have any better chance of getting past those darn Spurs?”

This season’s first meeting with San Antonio since that exciting, controversial and gut-wrenching playoff loss last May comes at an interesting time for the Suns. They have lost three of their past four games after a 16-4 start and the same old problems are at the root.

Management held an extended postgame huddle after Monday’s loss to Miami, and it wasn’t to talk about the rainy weather outside US Airways Center.

Has a core that has reached two Western Conference finals and won almost 200 regular season games in 3 1/3 seasons run its course? With eight players soaking up most of the payroll that is already over the luxury tax, cosmetic changes aren’t likely — which leaves only the option of a full-fledged makeover involving one or more of the top eight players.

NBA sources say the Suns brain trust is split between those who want to give this team another shot at success, those who think it’s now time for a major move and those who are on the fence after only 24 games.

“If we’re ever going to be a championship team, we have to improve defensively,” is as far as Suns general manager Steve Kerr would go Sunday. “We’re watching this run of games against top competition (Utah, New Orleans, San Antonio and Dallas) very carefully. We’ve been talking about it but we talk all the time. Are there are concerns? Sure. I’d say we’re definitely in evaluation mode,” Kerr said.

And if the team’s final grade reflects Saturday’s 101-98 loss to New Orleans — where the Suns let a Hornets team that had been struggling and should have been tired run wild in the first 24 minutes of what was supposed to be a statement road trip — changes might be quick to follow.

The Suns are still scoring 110 points a game this year (a league-best 109.5), they still lead the league in field-goal percentage (.492). But if anything, Phoenix’s weak spots have taken a step farther backward this year.

It’s not just the 105 points the Suns are allowing a game, it’s the ease with which they are coming. After finishing near the middle of the pack in field-goal defense over the past three years, the Suns are currently tied with Minnesota and Cleveland for 25th in the league, allowing teams to shoot .463 from the field.

Only Charlotte, Memphis and New York are worse. And that’s not a company Phoenix wants to keep — hence the idea that something big might be on the horizon if current trends continue on this temperature-check.

The record isn’t bad (17-7), but some of the losses have been ugly and even many of the wins haven’t come with a sweet taste. And not being able to count on a consistent level of effort has become a tired subject.

“It’s very, very disappointing,” guard Steve Nash said. “I wish I could find a way to make sure each guy is ready to play. But what do you do, interview each guy before a game?”

Or maybe, you change things up?

Kerr expected a better team chemistry after clearing out the end of his bench and replacing it with a combination of youth and veteran role players. But Boris Diaw has struggled, Leandro Barbosa has been inconsistent and the back of the bench hasn’t been used — putting even more pressure on the starters to produce.

Suns coach Mike D’Antoni has settled on his eight-man rotation and thinks this team could be his best, despite the early-season hiccups. He likes what Skinner has brought to the team, sees Hill as another player who can create offense when the Spurs look to shut down Nash and Barbosa and is looking forward to seeing how those changes play out on the court.

“We’re a better team, better than last year,” D’Antoni said. “They are still really good, but I don’t know if they’ve gotten better. So when you consider how close we were last year … we feel good.

“We’ll see how different matchups might be created. We don’t know how that’s going to work out yet. But Brian has given us toughness and with Grant … as many weapons as we had to choose from last year, now I feel we have more and more guys who can break down their defense and help Steve out when things get a little sloggy.”

Suns at Spurs
When: 6:30 p.m. today
Where: AT&T Center
Radio: KTAR (620 AM)
TV: KUTP (Channel 45)
Records: Suns 17-7; Spurs 18-5
Series history: The Suns lead the overall series 65-63, but the Spurs have won 14 of the past 20 regular-season meetings and have eliminated Phoenix from the playoffs in two of the past three years — including last year’s controversial six-game Western Conference semifinals. The home team won each of the three regular-season meetings last year.

Scouting report: Suns — The first-half defense was horrible again Saturday and the Suns couldn’t quite overcome it in a 101-98 loss at New Orleans. The Suns allowed 12 3-pointers to the Hornets and are facing a team that hit 11-of-22 in their last outing. Can they rebound here in their own personal house of horrors? They will get their first look at how their new acquisitions (Grant Hill and Brian Skinner) change the dynamics of this rivalry but the key is to free up Steve Nash and Leandro Barbosa more on offense — they were both hounded and taken out of their games in the postseason.

Spurs — They got Tim Duncan (sprained ankle) back on Saturday when they beat the Nuggets 102-91 in San Antonio, adding to their home-perfect 12-0 start. But Tony Parker (ankle) missed his second straight game and could miss a few more. Their supporting cast has stepped up in the absence of stars — Michael Finley and Fabricio Oberto both put up a season-high 21 points in the Denver win. Oberto added 13 rebounds and gives them another offensive front-line worry. The Spurs are a pedestrian 6-5 on the road.

SwingMan

12-17-2007, 10:57 AM

Give him a bit, Dust.

Remember that he had a good start here as well in 2005-2006 - after which he dropped right off the face of the earth.

In 2006-2007 - the infamous "ballgate" - he performed well for approximately one month (January), then did a rinse and repeat of the previous season.

Let's see how JR's performing this time next month.....

SwingMan

12-17-2007, 11:00 AM

darrkin

12-17-2007, 11:02 AM

INFORMER

12-17-2007, 11:10 AM

NBA sources say the Suns brain trust is split between those who want to give this team another shot at success, those who think it’s now time for a major move and those who are on the fence after only 24 games.

Well here's the rub: Chicago. They have a boat load of talent and are willing to deal (generally spekaing). They have some studs (and I'm not even referring to any of hte big 3) that could really help facilitate D'Antoni's game plan. Nevertheless, I don't see it as a move that will move the Suns closer to a title this year. And putting myself in management's position, I'd be inclined to stay the course for the rest of this season, even though that might mean the Suns would be passing on good trade opportunities that might not be there later.

Shabazz

12-17-2007, 11:11 AM

I wonder which members of our "brain trust" are in favor of scrapping this team. I hope to God not Sarver. Not after he mortgaged our future to save some money so we can keep our core together for one more year.

I really hope they keep this team together and give it an opportunity to work out its issues. There really isn't a roster in the league I would swap ours for. I know there are issues, but I think that Nash and Amare's nagging injuries are causing more problems than people are willing to recognize.

The team itself is in a tough place right now. It could win out the rest of the regular season and people would (correctly) write it off as meaningless unless they do something in the playoffs. At the same time everyone is expecting them to have it figured out 20 games into the season when clearly now is not the right time to peak. This impossibility of having playoff pressure without being able to play playoff games is, IMO, creating a weird dynamic on the team and messing with everyone's heads a little.

I know the defense has been awful lately, but I hope management shows some restraint, waits until Feb. and re-evaluates then.

INFORMER

12-17-2007, 11:13 AM

and the back of the bench hasn’t been used — putting even more pressure on the starters to produce.

This is a very good point. I think short, playoff-like rotation does create more pressure. I've thought on many occassions that while using the bench may cost us a few games, the SUns will reap the benefits in the long-run.

Billyjoejimbob

12-17-2007, 11:24 AM

I think the key to our losses lately, is wide open shooters....Barbs and Bell missing easy shots. We are always outrebounded, had we made just a few of those great shots we win almost all our recent losses. I think if we are to keep playing this style, which ya know we are, we need to find another gunner, just in case Barbs or Raja is struggling. We all seem to forget how many games, a guy like Q or House helped us win by spreading the floor. I love Hill, but hes more of a slasher than a consistent outside three point threat so he doesnt really help with spreading us out. I think he will be invaluable though in playoffs when halfcourt game increases. If we continue to struggle with our shot making ability I bet we make a move for someone that can fill it up from outside.

Another shooter might help occasionally to open up a lead, but personally I think a lot of what has gone wrong so far depends on Amare. When he hustles on defense and gets over 10 rebounds, the offense seems to flow better. When he stands around on the defensive end with his thumb up his butt and watches the other team get rebounds, things don't seem to flow so well. So, I think either they need to find a way to get that out of Amare every game or get somebody to play next to him that can do that every game.

Billyjoejimbob

12-17-2007, 11:33 AM

Guard Tony Parker (ankle) is doubtful.

I hate it when they do that. It's been a pattern for a while now that they take out 1 or 2 key players against the Suns in the reg. season with some bogus injury. If they lose they can say oohh we didnt have soandso, if they win they are like we can beat them without him as well...

Actually, Tony Parker has been out for a few games now. He isn't just out against the Suns. I wish our team was willing to rest players when they were hurt and hold them out until they were ready to come back instead of them playing hurt all the time. I am soooooo tired of a player having a horrible game and then the excuse of oh well he's not 100% right now. Well, if he isn't well enough to help the team then put his hind end on the pine until he is well enough.
Nope, can't do that, he's one of the starting 8, he has to play. The Spurs know it's the regular season and they don't panic when guys get injuries early on, they actually rest them and give them time to get over their injuries.

darrkin

12-17-2007, 11:40 AM

jed

12-17-2007, 11:45 AM

Another shooter might help occasionally to open up a lead, but personally I think a lot of what has gone wrong so far depends on Amare. When he hustles on defense and gets over 10 rebounds, the offense seems to flow better. When he stands around on the defensive end with his thumb up his butt and watches the other team get rebounds, things don't seem to flow so well. So, I think either they need to find a way to get that out of Amare every game or get somebody to play next to him that can do that every game.

I'm having a big problem with anyone saying Amare's not doing his part right now. In the NO/OK game, he had 11 shots. That was less than Nash, Bell, Hill and Barbosa.

This guy is supposed to be our big gun -- and yet we're not riding his ability down low. Guess what -- the other guys' FG percentages might not be so freakin' low if we actually made sure he got 15-20 shots a game so that the defenses would collapse.

darrkin

12-17-2007, 11:51 AM

I'm having a big problem with anyone saying Amare's not doing his part right now. In the NO/OK game, he had 11 shots. That was less than Nash, Bell, Hill and Barbosa.

This guy is supposed to be our big gun -- and yet we're not riding his ability down low. Guess what -- the other guys' FG percentages might not be so freakin' low if we actually made sure he got 15-20 shots a game so that the defenses would collapse.

yup!! Amen...I still think the answer is to move Marion and Banks for a bigger guy and someone that can contribute. I really like Marion, but he is too small to guard his man usually. We need two big guys, If we had a taller version of Marion I think we would be much better. Also Marion cant seem handle ball very well anymore or create his own shot. Hes a great player just not for our system anymore-he or Amare may have to go soon, and I hope its not Amare-he dogs it sometimes, but his upside is still too much to give up on now. It would help if Doris would actually take it strong also, but not gonna happen enough to matter anyway

jed

12-17-2007, 11:59 AM

tbrkingofthesouth

12-17-2007, 11:59 AM

I'm having a big problem with anyone saying Amare's not doing his part right now. In the NO/OK game, he had 11 shots. That was less than Nash, Bell, Hill and Barbosa.

This guy is supposed to be our big gun -- and yet we're not riding his ability down low. Guess what -- the other guys' FG percentages might not be so freakin' low if we actually made sure he got 15-20 shots a game so that the defenses would collapse.

I am tired of that crap too...Amare our best scorer only gets 11 shots..We need a coach like Larry Brown..D'Antoni Nash the Jig is up the NBA has caught on...I hate to say it, but we will never win a ring playing this style of ball..The braintrust is smart enough not to trade Amare..He is the future..We need a coach that will play to Amare's strengths instead of forcing him to play as an undersized Center next to a small forward posing as a 4...D'Antoni get over yourself when we first started this run you weren't even sure if we could win playing this way..He Started Vroman at Center for the first games in 04-05...Sarver and Kerr will watch these next games closely..I will be happy to see a change

INFORMER

12-17-2007, 12:16 PM

I could see us trying to do an Amare for Gasol type of thing

Boy, that would be a horrendous trade, worse than Kidd-for-Marbury.

INFORMER

12-17-2007, 12:22 PM

Disgruntled forward Malik Rose was a no-show at yesterday's practice. A team spokesman said Rose's vehicle was blocked in by the snow. The rest of the team, however, all made it to the practice facility in Greenburgh.
Rose is seeking a trade and Thomas is trying to accommodate him. There is a possibility that the Knicks will negotiate a buyout with Rose, a tactic Thomas has used with veterans in the past, including Shandon Anderson, Maurice Taylor, Jalen Rose and Jerome Williams.

It may not be sexy, but I would try to get Rose for Diaw. Rose may or may not be able to help the Suns, but his contract has only one year left. I would hate trade away such a talented player, but Boris's lack of production is killing me.

wpmiller42

12-17-2007, 12:32 PM

It may not be sexy, but I would try to get Rose for Diaw. Rose may or may not be able to help the Suns, but his contract has only one year left. I would hate trade away such a talented player, but Boris's lack of production is killing me.

Heck, we should see if the knicks would take banks for Rose. Their management doesn't care about salaries, and they aren't the brightest bunch. If we were to trade Boris, I'd want David Lee at the very least.

Or just wait until he is bought out and sign him up then. Though considering our unwillingness to go over the luxury tax, that probably won't happen.

Shabazz

12-17-2007, 12:40 PM

I'm starting to get a little worried that by major changes to the Suns they are meaning moving Amare. I could see us trying to do an Amare for Gasol type of thing, not sure if we would be any better or not. I really dont think its fair right now to judge Amare, as hes still kinda injured. In a couple months if hes still kinda dogging it then move him if we have to. I kinda could see the Suns moving Amare and packaging Banks, kinda like we moved Marbs to unload Penny.

Amare for Gasol would be a terrible trade. It wouldn't help our play or our salary situation. I could see management pulling some sort of Amare/Banks for Pau/Mike Miller deal.

I hope we keep Amare. He's working his way back into game shape and we're quick to forget that he went through a similar process last year, but by March he was dominating again (I think he averaged 28 and 13 that month).

As much as I want management to be patient I could warm to the idea of a deal with Marion and Gasol as the centerpieces. It's a good time to buy low on Pau right now. The problem is Memphis already has a few players in that Marion mold like Gay and Warrick so they may not want another.

I wonder what sort of trading partner Memphis would be considering Iavaroni knows this roster like the back of his hand, warts and all.

INFORMER

12-17-2007, 12:42 PM

If we were to trade Boris, I'd want David Lee at the very least.

How on earth could you justify that? David Lee is young, is actually good, and he actually produces.

As much as I want management to be patient I could warm to the idea of a deal with Marion and Gasol as the centerpieces.

Not as bad as Amare-for-Gasol, but close.

JackArse

12-17-2007, 12:50 PM

I'm not even going to speculate on trades any more. The few things I've heard about "chemistry issues" in the locker room have had a few names attached to them, snd I don't think anyone outside of the Suns has the whole truth.

If the rumors are true and we continue to falter, I'd bet a big name gets shipped out. I just think it could be any number of guys.

aye, and marion STILL complaining in that previous article about not being in the flow of the game and that's why he didn't make that shot. and complaining about not being in the offense in general. he has 3rd most shots of everyone on the team.

i still think he's an issue. but oh well..
even if we do win, it'll be without tony parker, and that's all we'll hear.
and if they were full strength, all we'd hear is. yeah, but it's the first regular season game.. and it's not the playoffs.. and then it's.. so and so on.

oh well, go suns!

EDC

12-17-2007, 12:50 PM

* Mike D'Antoni on Saturday's final play: "He (Steve Nash) just through that he was making the right play. I told him that I probably should have called time out. Then he goes, 'What, to call the same play?' I go, 'Probably.' It was just one of those deals. It always will come to that. We don't lose it there. You either win it there but you don't lose it there. You lose it on the other stops. Somehow, we just have to try to find some grit that we don't have right now. Hopefully, we can find it."

This just gives me all sorts of confidence in Coach D. Sounds like Nash doesn't have much faith in him either. We are just plain bad at the end of games trying to get a good shot. I really just wish we could work on some good solid half court offense. Practice the inside out game and we might just be ready come playoff time. Otherwise its a crap shoot. We might have the good shooting run that could win us the title but we have to get lucky.

MTSunsFan

12-17-2007, 12:56 PM

SwingMan

12-17-2007, 12:57 PM

aye, and marion STILL complaining in that previous article about not being in the flow of the game and that's why he didn't make that shot. and complaining about not being in the offense in general. he has 3rd most shots of everyone on the team.

i still think he's an issue. but oh well..
even if we do win, it'll be without tony parker, and that's all we'll hear.
and if they were full strength, all we'd hear is. yeah, but it's the first regular season game.. and it's not the playoffs.. and then it's.. so and so on.

oh well, go suns!

Fuck you, Spurs.

No Amare and Diaw for game 5 didn't "taint" your victory - suck it up or go hunker.....

EDC

12-17-2007, 12:58 PM

56.5% from the field this year for Amare. Thats just plain slacking. Can we ship him out yet? :P

Billyjoejimbob

12-17-2007, 01:04 PM

I'm having a big problem with anyone saying Amare's not doing his part right now. In the NO/OK game, he had 11 shots. That was less than Nash, Bell, Hill and Barbosa.

This guy is supposed to be our big gun -- and yet we're not riding his ability down low. Guess what -- the other guys' FG percentages might not be so freakin' low if we actually made sure he got 15-20 shots a game so that the defenses would collapse.

If you'll notice, I didn't say anything about Amare's offense. I agree that when the team is in a slump they need to get the ball inside to Amare instead of playing hot potato with it, but I also think that most of the team's defensive woes are a lack of hustle and they start with Amare IMO. He should be getting double digit rebounds every game and he isn't. Most of his stupid fouls come from being out of position and not making the effort to play good defense before the guy he's guarding gets the ball.

tbrkingofthesouth

12-17-2007, 01:17 PM

Nash is always out of position on D..He needs to place blame upon himself or maybe his teammates will start calling him out on his shit

Billyjoejimbob

12-17-2007, 01:22 PM

Nash is always out of position on D..He needs to place blame upon himself or maybe his teammates will start calling him out on his shit

The times I've noticed Nash out of position is because he is double teaming Amare's man. When he plays defense on his man, he is able to move his feet and play respectable defense. Amare either needs to learn how to be an anchor on defense and play fundamentally or somebody else that can do that needs to play along side him. Then there is the rebounding, Amare is normally out of position to get rebounds as well. I really am not trying to pick on him and say he is terrible and we should trade him because I don't think we should, but I think he needs help. I don't think he is the type of player that is ever going to have the mindset to go out and dominate somebody on both ends of the floor even though he has the ability to do so.

Wormwood

12-17-2007, 01:25 PM

Our best defense seems to come when everybody just stays home on their man. Amare's lack of post defense prevents this. When we had KT, we were actually a very respectable team defensively...

jed

12-17-2007, 01:32 PM

If you'll notice, I didn't say anything about Amare's offense. I agree that when the team is in a slump they need to get the ball inside to Amare instead of playing hot potato with it, but I also think that most of the team's defensive woes are a lack of hustle and they start with Amare IMO. He should be getting double digit rebounds every game and he isn't. Most of his stupid fouls come from being out of position and not making the effort to play good defense before the guy he's guarding gets the ball.

Just so you know, I wsn't picking on your points per say. Your post was just the easiest quote in that region.

Still, I have to say that -- even with a grain of truth to what you're saying about his defense -- the situation isn't going to get better by his hunkering down and making sure he hits his marks. We need to get him to ball, period. When he gets into rhythm, his defense seems to follow.

JackArse

12-17-2007, 01:59 PM

Our best defense seems to come when everybody just stays home on their man. Amare's lack of post defense prevents this. When we had KT, we were actually a very respectable team defensively...

I would agree with this. I'd say, if amare starts getting beat, let him get beat. Let whoever is there get their points, just make sure no one else gets theirs.

amare also catches a lot of flak for defense, alot is deserved, in either being out of position or otherwise (sometimes because of trying to double team too high, and letting his player get low), but i also see times wehre he will do the same thing that skinner or even last year that KT would do, in the same game where, he'll get called for the foul, and skinner/kt wouldn't. some of it is technique, some of it is just reputation. as is with the rest of the team. we're a finesse team, therefore we cannot be physical/defend. teams like the pistons or spurs are a physical team, so they get held to a different standard when it comes to what they get away with. it's ridiculous, but it won't change.

Wormwood

12-17-2007, 02:12 PM

Amare is absolutely awful at holding his position, guys just shove him back and back until they find their spot. He's also miserable at beating his man to a spot. He has no feel for which way his man will turn, and consequently never draws a charge and rarely is in a good position to really contest a shot by other centers.

Wormwood

12-17-2007, 02:14 PM

Tucker Named D-League Player Of Week
December 17, 2007 - 3:58 pm
RealGM Staff Report -
Alando Tucker of the Albuquerque Thunderbirds today was named D-League.com Performer of the Week for games played during the week of Dec. 10. In two games, Tucker averaged 36.0 points, 6.5 rebounds while shooting 27-of-52 (.519) from the field.

Tucker, a Thunderbird by way of assignment from the Phoenix Suns , scored 40 points and grabbed eight rebounds during a Dec. 14 victory over the Bakersfield Jam. His 40-point performance tied the D-League best for the season. Tucker came out the next night, Dec. 15, to score 32 points and pull down five rebounds in a win over the Anaheim Arsenal.

A 6-6 forward from Wisconsin, Tucker was selected 29th overall by the Suns in the 2007 NBA Draft. In five games since being assigned on Nov. 29, he is averaging 28.2 points (tied for second in the D-League) and 7.0 rebounds. A first-team All-America and the 2006-07 Big Ten Player of the Year, Tucker averaged 6.0 points in two games with the Suns before his assignment to the Thunderbirds. [READ]

Finally, a little good new. Tucker must be looking really good in those games.

Shabazz

12-17-2007, 02:15 PM

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but I'd love to see us give Rod Benson a shot. They guy is 6'10, very athletic and has been dominating on the boards in the D-League including a game where he had 28 rebounds. If D'Antoni ever decides it's possible to play more than 8 players a game this guy would be a good fit.

Bogyo

12-17-2007, 02:21 PM

So Tucker is a 2 with no range, or a really really small 3 with no range? If he can fix it in a year, he could be useful.

jkalldaway

12-17-2007, 02:46 PM

They are clearly talking about moving Amare when they say we need to improve defensively.

scosuns

12-17-2007, 02:47 PM

darrkin

12-17-2007, 02:58 PM

If this chemistry thing keeps up I think we need to move Marion and try to get bigger, and also maybe get another gunner/shooter type. I like Marion/Gasol and maybe some other stuff like dumping Banks and or Diaw for Miller and maybe we could get a Malik Rose...hell while we are at it let EJ coach the team.....Im starting to get real sick of Marion, he is obviously not real happy here anymore. He always complains, and his skills are diminishing fast. He can still jump good and rebound like a madman, and play defense in spurts, but cant really shoot at all anymore has no touch or handles. Also lets never ever ever give him the game winning shot, I would rather have Nash throw up an off balance J from half court

darrkin

12-17-2007, 03:00 PM

This would be such a nice win that would make up for the 7 losses. However, I don't think we're going to win, especially with our lack of size. I don't see us banging the boards, but I don't ever expect us to.

On another note, how about Alando? Maybe time to bring him back up and give him a few minutes.

Yeah we wish, Alando and Straw would be awesome for a few minutes each game...but our coach would rather die than play a young gun

Billyjoejimbob

12-17-2007, 03:15 PM

Just so you know, I wsn't picking on your points per say. Your post was just the easiest quote in that region.

Still, I have to say that -- even with a grain of truth to what you're saying about his defense -- the situation isn't going to get better by his hunkering down and making sure he hits his marks. We need to get him to ball, period. When he gets into rhythm, his defense seems to follow.

I don't disagree with him getting into rhythm, but I have seen his defense feed his offense also when he feels like putting in the effort, he just doesn't seem to want to every game.

jed

12-17-2007, 03:20 PM

They are clearly talking about moving Amare when they say we need to improve defensively.

Okay -- so who would be someone we'd be interested in getting back for such a deal? And please, don't say Pau Gasol.

singh

12-17-2007, 03:39 PM

I just keep seeing Garnett in boston and keep wondering..."if"...only if

...sigh.....

anywhoo

If we get creamed tonight or look anything less than on, I predict a trade will happen..not sure who, I would hate for it to be Amare, but lets see

BigLewy

12-17-2007, 03:47 PM

12-17-2007, 03:48 PM

Don't move Amare. If we can, move Marion.

It must be noted that Marion's been playing wonderfully this season. He's been a godsend on D. But an actual center would be even more of a godsend. I realize, however, how difficult it would be to make a move for a center at this point. There really isn't a plausible trade to be made.

We'll have to overcome this on our own.

IMO, we need Boris to grow a pair. Otherwise, we may one day have to * out his name a la (he who cannot be named).

BigLewy

12-17-2007, 03:55 PM

The only centers I would trade for are Dwight, Okafor and Chandler. Dwight is obviously untouchable. I wonder if there is a possible package that could be done involving Marion and Chandler? I highly doubt it, but it is fun to speculate.

Phoenix219

12-17-2007, 04:06 PM

It looks like Elson is doubtful tonight with a sprained ankle as well. Let's put a whoopin on these asshats.

As much as I love Shawn for what he does on the court, deep down I will never forgive him for basically costing us KG. I am so greedy !! :lol:

I honestly think this team and our run and gun would be 10x sicker and more versatile with Marion/Garnett then Amare/Garnett. I think Amare/Garnett would get in each others way more so, and that the Marion/Garnett pairing would be much more fluid and energetic.

Superbone

12-17-2007, 04:23 PM

Shabazz

12-17-2007, 04:40 PM

I honestly think this team and our run and gun would be 10x sicker and more versatile with Marion/Garnett then Amare/Garnett. I think Amare/Garnett would get in each others way more so, and that the Marion/Garnett pairing would be much more fluid and energetic.

I've gotta disagree with this one. I think Garnett's intensity would have done wonders for Amare. They guy never takes a play off and demands the same from his teammates. Beyond that, he would have given us a legitimate lockdown defender in the post that could guard Duncan et al and allow us to do a better job of hiding Amare on defense. Marion can guard all 5 positions pretty well, but KG can be great against 4s and 5s. I've even seen him guard PGs.

On the offensive end KG would have gladly given Amare alpha-dog status without making a peep about how he's disrespected. He's one of the most unselfish guys in the league and unlike Diaw, would figure out quickly how to play with Stat. I could see those guys playing some beautiful high-low bball in the post.

Phoenix219

12-17-2007, 04:48 PM

Considering we still play nothing but run and gun, I'd argue that the last 4 years, Shawn was one of the ultimate keys to our running game, had his hands in more huge plays (whether it be a tip out, a pass or a board) and fits the style Coach D plays to a T. Amare and Garnett might have been better paired in a traditional environment but on this Suns team I think Marion/Garnett would have been unbelievable. Marion and Diaw, while not unstoppable a la Amare, run this system and this offense with the ball movement and spacing much better then Amare. Marion/Diaw/Garnett would have an unbelievable amount of basketball IQ.

Shabazz

12-17-2007, 05:01 PM

Good point. Within the same system, we'd lose a lot of speed with the KG/Amare combo. I'd like to think though, that an acquisition of KGs magnitude would be enough of a prompt for D'Antoni to tweak his system towards a more traditional one. Probably wishful thinking.

I'm just saying, in terms of sheer basketball talent I'd rather have the Amare/KG combo. I think Nash, KG and Amare would've been one of the best "big threes" in NBA history. I also think Babs, Bell, Hill and Diaw would have meshed really well with that group.

Not so sold on Marion being a "High Bball IQ" guy. I'm not saying Amare is a Bball Einstein, but Marion gets most of his stuff off of hustle and energy plays, not smarts.

Shabazz

12-17-2007, 05:13 PM

Completely unrelated, but this Isiah Thomas video that Truehoop linked to today is classic:

http://thebiglead.com/?p=3925

One of the most uncomfortable speeches I've ever seen. By the end he may as well have told the audience that he skins housepets for fun. To think that this guy is allowed to run the league's trophy franchise is mind boggling. I also love the look on Booby Knight's face. Priceless.

Uncle_Gene

12-17-2007, 05:24 PM

Grant Hill said. "We can't wait to turn it up just because we're a good team. We have to be ready to go. We are going to learn from this and get better and just realize that we are marked and people are going to come at us.''

WORD.

DrSublime

12-17-2007, 05:29 PM

Grant Hill for COACH! lol

JackArse

12-17-2007, 05:51 PM

I've gotta disagree with this one. I think Garnett's intensity would have done wonders for Amare. They guy never takes a play off and demands the same from his teammates. Beyond that, he would have given us a legitimate lockdown defender in the post that could guard Duncan et al and allow us to do a better job of hiding Amare on defense. Marion can guard all 5 positions pretty well, but KG can be great against 4s and 5s. I've even seen him guard PGs.

On the offensive end KG would have gladly given Amare alpha-dog status without making a peep about how he's disrespected. He's one of the most unselfish guys in the league and unlike Diaw, would figure out quickly how to play with Stat. I could see those guys playing some beautiful high-low bball in the post.

also, KG said he wanted to play with amare, not that he wanted to play with marion.

i'm sur ehe'd take either one.. but damn. oh well.

RDM2

12-17-2007, 05:57 PM

Seriously having major problems with Barbosa jacking up more shots than our starting All-Star center who is shooting 60% fgs.

I also agree I hate when I see Amare come jump out on a guy at the 3 point line. Really needs to stick to his man like flies on ****. Probably why he loses position SO much.