Game Day: Suns v OKC..NO..OKC..NO. meh. hornets

[JackArse]

i just realized that a thread hadn't been created yet..

damn, it's a slow day i guess.

its the start of a 3 game road trip. i won't say it's a 'telling' road trip since it's only december, but hopefully some wins here will appease the natives.

dis·cuss

[SwingMan]

It's a big road trip, Jack - all 3 against teams well over .500. And NO's been playing well late.

'Course, Paul or no, all of our games vs. the Hornets lately have been as boring as whale shit, but still.....

[JackArse]

well yeah, i understand that. i just say for me.. it's not a telling series.. since it's still early in the season, but that's not to say that to others it doesnt' mean anything. hehe.

[pagielak]

I'm ok with Amare shooting jumpers but I don't like when he comes off the screen and shoots a'la shooting guard. It just never falls in

[SpecialSauce]

wrong it goes in a lot actually

[pagielak]

When he is closer to the rim, yes but when he's just inside the three point line, rarely

[pagielak]

yay Boris with a layup

[SwingMan]

1st channel 45 game I get to see in HD and it shows in agonizing detail exactly how Amare's slogging tonight. Is it his fucking knees? WTF is going on with the guy? Ever since Minnesota, he's been running in fucking molasses.....

[Sunny_Kid]

Boris make 2 assists in a row. He can play very good, he just needs to pass the ball when others have good position OR SHOOT IT WHEN NOT.

[pagielak]

Damn...NOH hit 7/10 3pt, MoPete can't miss

[SpecialSauce]

When he is closer to the rim, yes but when he's just inside the three point line, rarely

nope

[Sunny_Kid]

Coach sucks. Start Amare Skinner Matrix Raja Nash and Bench Diaw Hill Barbs. This works.

[y2jjedipimp]

wow Skinner 3 mins in the first half...he must have been exhausted after that...DA get it fixed !!!

[Spanky]

Where the hell is Shawn? Where is Steve? Where is Amare? Wake the fuck up guys... Damn.

[JediSkywalker]

I am livid as I am watching this game. The 2nd Qtr absolutely killed the Suns. They cannot stop the Hornets; they cannot make a basket, esp. for 3 points. They look like they are fast asleep. NOH is running all over them. It is sickening. Why do we have to put up with this on today, off tomorrow type play? I wish Dantoni would give the bench a chance; the starters cannot get it done. STAT looks very average. Nash has just 2 assists in the first half and he has made just one basket.

[SwingMan]

When Boris fucking Diaw is more active and into it than Amare is, folks, there's trouble.

Enough said about the shit effort tonight.....

[Nashfan]

This guys are playing lazy again to start the game and it is bitting them in the butt. When will they every learn they have to come out with energy?? What is with only letting Amare take four shots? Get him the ball and get him involved on the offense. We are rebounding well for our team but we aren't playing a lick of defense!!

[Spanky]

Dog shit effort so far, that's for sure.

[Spanky]

Here is a theory. Do you think the team is being affected by the french cologne that Boris might be wearing into the locker room? Kind of like a dirty bomb?

[bobster]

there comes a point when you look at a team's effort and decide that they've reached the point where they've tuned the coach out. have the suns reached that point? why is there such a struggle to get consistent effort from this team?

[Dustbuster]

While I was listening to this game tonight, the thought hit me: after 3 1/2 seasons of this, I am really, really sick of getting dominated in the paint and on the offensive glass. I don't know if there is anything more frustrating to me about this version of the Suns. I am sick of Amare getting dominated down low every night by inferior players. It seems that all of that ego only manifests itself when he gets in front a mic, and not down in the paint where I want to see it come out. Where's "Black Jesus" when Chandler has got 4 offensive rebounds and 10 overall in the FIRST HALF???

Another rant: why in the world did D'Antoni sub back in the ineffective starters so quick when the reserves were actually playing much better and had gained back the ground on the Hornets? Most of the starters are a -13 for the game so far. Hill is the only starter that has played reasonably well. Skinner was playing well, Diaw was playing well, and Barbosa was really putting the ball in the hole. Why sub them out when they are playing well, particularly when your starters haven't?

The stubbornness with the short rotation and playing favorites is also grating on me.

BTW, David West was the runner up to Boris a few years ago for MIP. Sadly enough, ever since he has certainly been the superior player. I would certainly trade Boris for West, but somehow I don't think that NO would be so quick to pull the trigger.

[Sunny_Kid]

Wow. What an opening in the 3rd q. But this is Hornets' 2 TOs. After they shoot well, we may trail again. What we have to do better is defense. Not beg on their misses.

[Dustbuster]

Well, at least the third quarter is starting better. When the Suns make shots it covers up all of their flaws.

Only one problem...throughout the whole D'Antoni era there has absolutely been no plan B for when the shots aren't falling.

[Spanky]

D'Anotni is just fishing with the same bait he caught a few on before. Well, the weather has changed and the fish went deeper. It's time to pull out the tackle box and try something new.

[Dustbuster]

How things have changed: this season Amare has been dunked on far more often than he has dunked on others.

Remember when Amare used to own Chandler...

[Spanky]

Remember when Amare used to own Chandler...

I was thinking the same thing earlier, when Chandler was dominating his ass in the block.

[SwingMan]

.....and there goes Amare.

4 fouls and now he's Mr. Transparent - count on it.

How embarassing is this bullshit.....

[JediSkywalker]

Amare cannot make any shots and he has picked up his 4th foul. This game is very similar to the Miami game. The Suns were ice cold in the first half, dug themselves a deep hole. They tried to climb out of it in the 3rd but got burried again because NOH keeps making the baskets, esp. their 3 point shooting has been ridiculous. Suns starters are not getting it done, except Grant and Raja. They kept the Suns in the game, but the Suns seem to be looking past the Hornets, and looking forward to the Spurs. They need to take care of business here first.

OTOH I wonder if Nash should take a week off? He looks to banged up to get anything done. Amare's knees seem to be affecting his game. If only we had signed Garnett through a trade (I was OK with trading either Amare or Shawn)....the Suns would have been unbeatable. Just look at what a lousy team like the Celtics are doing. They are doing an impersonation of the NE Patriots right now.

[JediSkywalker]

As I was typing my previous post, Dantoni read our minds and let the bench play. The bench tied the game 80-80, with Nash, Amare on the bench. The coach has to go with whoever has more energy.

[Sunny_Kid]

Good qtr. Nash shine in the 4th we win , or we lose. Go Suns

[pagielak]

Amare can't get a rebound

[pagielak]

Ok he got 3 in a row against Chandler...GO SUNS

[bobster]

jesus. what the hell were they thinking there?

[pagielak]

What the F was that?

[Immortal]

.2 seconds left, why are we even calling timeout?

[Spanky]

I just have to laugh at that last play.... Why didn't coach call a time out? WTF? Way to go... Way to go. :roll:

[cap]

I predict a 4-1 record.

Put it in your sig. [Note: Spanky was referring to the Miami-Utah-NO-SA-Dal stretch we have coming up.

Well, so much for that.

[JediSkywalker]

I am so sick that I turned the TV off with 0.2 sec left, and NOH with the ball. The Suns had a golden opportunity to win, with 14.1 sec left. They got all the stops they needed. Marion's last second shot was not even close. Why did Dantoni not call a time out to set up the play, may be insert LB who was playing well tonight? It makes me SICK! This one hurts even more than the Miami game because the Suns could have actually won this one. Now they have to play SA and Mavs. They are in danger of losing 3 in a row.

[bobster]

in the last minute on offense -

- bell misses a wide open 3 to tie the game
- marion airballs a driving layup for the win
- on the final shot they can't even inbound the ball

nice execution at the end there.

[Spanky]

Well, so much for that.

Well, all you can do is hope.

[pagielak]

I don't understand why there was no foul after Shawn's miss. It took them a few seconds to finally foul somebody

[FrontRowSun]

We are not winning a title with this type of team.

[y2jjedipimp]

wow...what a waste....games like this give the NBA a bad name...a bunch of lazy overpaid athletes is what they played like. the defense is way better with Skinner in. but you keep using that same gameplan mike...shoot shoot shoot theyll snap out of it. theyll get better. well guess what? they arent snapping out of it. they arent getting better.

[Spanky]

in the last minute on offense -

- bell misses a wide open 3 to tie the game
- marion airballs a driving layup for the win
- on the final shot they can't even inbound the ball

nice execution at the end there.

I wouldn't really call it a layup. I would say more of wannabe Magic Johnson hook.

[desertcoast]

.2 seconds left, why are we even calling timeout?


yeah, yet he wouldn't call a time before that last trainwreck of a possession.......

nice coaching, coach...

[JediSkywalker]

.2 seconds left, why are we even calling timeout?

It's because Dantoni forgot to call it when he should have- to set up the play, with 14.1 sec remaining. It might have paid off. It seems the coach was as off as the players tonight.:evil:

[Mori_Chu]

Ugh. If we could shoot 3s like we used to, or if we could defend, or if we could run like we used to, ... this might have been a win. And Shawn Marion, what was with that airball runner? TERRIBLE!

The guys look tired, slow, injured, and old. Mike D is pushing the starters too hard and playing injured players too much. Widen the damn rotation.

[Nashfan]

This team isn't winning anything with this kind of play and attitude. We need another rebounding big man and we need to run, run, run!! Would also have been nice to hire a defensive coach instead of another point guard coach. This team is either lazy or has no clue on defense. Take your pick.

[JediSkywalker]

Amare can't get a rebound


Is something wrong with Amare- physically? He could not finish layups, could not rebound. He did not seem aggressive at all. He is not the player we watched last year (or in a few games this year). Or is it mental? He is uncomfortable playing that position and it has caught up with him?

[bobster]

We are not winning a title with this type of team.

it's becoming quite obvious isn't it?

[Nashfan]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about mentioning that stupid shot Marion took with about 14 seconds left. What in the hell was that?? Amare must have caught what Diaw had since he looked lost and showed no energy on either end of the court. This is with two days off so no one should be that tired. I am frustrated all to hell with this teams two personalities.

[Dustbuster]

This is not a knee-jerk reaction to this loss, but just a general observation overall. I have enjoyed this particular team less than any other in the D'Antoni era. Typically, even in the losses I can grasp onto some player that is growing or progressing or at least something that the team is doing better. I just can't seem to get a hook with this one. Even with what is still one of the top records in the league, I have not really enjoyed this season of basketball all that much. Maybe that makes me a Debbie Downer...but I am just responding as a longtime fan of this team.

[BobbyDogg]

While I was listening to this game tonight, the thought hit me: after 3 1/2 seasons of this, I am really, really sick of getting dominated in the paint and on the offensive glass. I don't know if there is anything more frustrating to me about this version of the Suns. I am sick of Amare getting dominated down low every night by inferior players. It seems that all of that ego only manifests itself when he gets in front a mic, and not down in the paint where I want to see it come out. Where's "Black Jesus" when Chandler has got 4 offensive rebounds and 10 overall in the FIRST HALF???

Another rant: why in the world did D'Antoni sub back in the ineffective starters so quick when the reserves were actually playing much better and had gained back the ground on the Hornets? Most of the starters are a -13 for the game so far. Hill is the only starter that has played reasonably well. Skinner was playing well, Diaw was playing well, and Barbosa was really putting the ball in the hole. Why sub them out when they are playing well, particularly when your starters haven't?

The stubbornness with the short rotation and playing favorites is also grating on me.

BTW, David West was the runner up to Boris a few years ago for MIP. Sadly enough, ever since he has certainly been the superior player. I would certainly trade Boris for West, but somehow I don't think that NO would be so quick to pull the trigger.



Right on the money with this, DB.

I think the "D'Antoni run & gun" has been figured out.
The Suns have no plan B; it's just shoot, shoot and shoot again. Look what happens when the shooting goes south: NOTHING.

If Amare isn't going to be a consistent low-post threat, then he's just another jump shooter on this team. Boris has one good game every four games. Nash is obviously hurting and yet Coach will play him 38 mins a game until his back breaks in half. Grant Hill was signed to play 20-25 mins and he's up over 30 + a night and it's only a matter of time before he destroys his ankles.
The Suns might as well send everyone on the bench home because they absolutely will not play no matter how sluggish the starter are.

Yes, I realize the Suns have a nice little record so far. But everyone has to see that they are not the same as they have been and that other teams, after three plus years MAY have figured the system out.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: No rebound, no defense, no energy means no championship. It's just the same shit Suns fans have seen for 40 + years; lots of scoring and no rings.

[Spanky]

This team has cerebral palsy... It's time for a cure.

[bobster]

the two biggest problems on defense are -

1. amare is guarding the other team's best interior player and frequently finds himself in foul trouble.

2. nash can't guard the opposing point guards effectively and the suns have to either put marion or hill on them or help on defense and leave shooters open.

when you throw in the general defensive malaise and some poor offensive execution, and you're not a contender for the title.

[JediSkywalker]

This team isn't winning anything with this kind of play and attitude. We need another rebounding big man and we need to run, run, run!! Would also have been nice to hire a defensive coach instead of another point guard coach. This team is either lazy or has no clue on defense. Take your pick.

I think they are either lazy or they could be overworked/burned out. If they are burned out in December there is reason to worry. If they are just being lazy, they can make a change of attitude. I don't want to hear any excuses from the team or their coach. They just played a horrible game. When their shots are not falling, they have nothing to fall back on. I was tired of watching the Hornets make 3 point plays one after another. No defense at all from the Suns, and this time no offense either. I don't mind it if they lose after putting in the effort. They probably put in 15 minutes worth of effort in this game. That is not going to get it done, even against Minnesota. Other teams are more than ready to play the Suns. The Suns seem to be ready once in 4-5 games.

[AlanS]

Wow, sorry ending to a competitive game. As long as these guys have been together, and with all the pressure situations they've been in, that was an unacceptable way to close it out.

PS: Is it just me, or does Amare seem less explosive than we expect? Several plays where he'd just dunk over people in the past, he came up with soft finger rolls or such. I give him credit for his hard work this game, but he sure doesn't seem to be 100%.

[JediSkywalker]

the two biggest problems on defense are -

1. amare is guarding the other team's best interior player and frequently finds himself in foul trouble.

2. nash can't guard the opposing point guards effectively and the suns have to either put marion or hill on them or help on defense and leave shooters open.

when you throw in the general defensive malaise and some poor offensive execution, and you're not a contender for the title.


I am wondering if they should try putting in Banks or DJ (not at the same time, obviously) when they need more defense, like tonight? I recall Nash saying at the start of the season that DJ is already playing NBA level defense. Why not at least try that out for a couple of minutes?

It is becoming clearer with every game that the Suns need a true center. Amare is not going to get it done. It's not his fault. He needs to be used where he is strong. I wonder if Kerr may make a move this season to give this team a chance or wait until next year? If it's the latter, they might as well write off this season.

[JediSkywalker]

Dantoni needs to go 10 deep to rest his starters. So what if the Suns lose the game? It's the same result, no matter who plays. The starters will at least have more energy in April-May. At his rate they will be too tired to play in March.

[BigLewy]

There is no next year with this current team. This is the final run, I believe, with the current structure of the team. As someone stated earlier, I too have much less of an emotional connection with this team for some reason. I loved the 04-05 for the raw athleticism and explosiveness. The 05-06 team was all heart and last years team was right on the cusp. This year for some reason, it seems like something is missing. I really hope they are just pacing themselves and going through the motions like the Spurs. If they truly are trying, we are screwed.

[Spanky]

You can see it in their faces... The passion isn't there. Where are the animalistic screams, chest bumping and stuff? I haven't seen that stuff at all this year.

[BobbyDogg]

the two biggest problems on defense are -

1. amare is guarding the other team's best interior player and frequently finds himself in foul trouble.

2. nash can't guard the opposing point guards effectively and the suns have to either put marion or hill on them or help on defense and leave shooters open.

when you throw in the general defensive malaise and some poor offensive execution, and you're not a contender for the title.



Exactly.

And who's fault is it that Amare and Marion are playing out of position?
After all this time, we can't play defense any better then we could three years ago. Thankfully, B. Skinner has been phenomenal so far. However, despite the fact that everybody on this board can see that Skinner should be getting major minutes (instead of Diaw) D'Antoni gives him spot minutes.
We need a more balanced team; one that runs and shoots but also is scrappy on defense and knows when to use the half court game.
Amare should be DEMANDING ball, and yet many times just seems to be floating around with everybody else. Get him the ball and get the F out of the way. When that closes up, then kick it out for the trey or the slasher. Don't just take endless threes and jumpshots over and over again.
Something is just not right with the general feel of this team right now and I hope they get it figured out before it becomes a lost cause.

[JediSkywalker]

This is not a knee-jerk reaction to this loss, but just a general observation overall. I have enjoyed this particular team less than any other in the D'Antoni era. Typically, even in the losses I can grasp onto some player that is growing or progressing or at least something that the team is doing better. I just can't seem to get a hook with this one. Even with what is still one of the top records in the league, I have not really enjoyed this season of basketball all that much. Maybe that makes me a Debbie Downer...but I am just responding as a longtime fan of this team.


I enjoyed watching the Suns play against Utah couple days back, and not just because they won the game. They were playing with their heart in the game. They are not doing that very often this season. They did have injury problems early in the season, but that does not justify the lackdaisical attitude against (perceived) weaker teams. NOH was clearly the better team tonight, and the Susn could have still pulled off the win, had they played like the Suns of last few years. I actually enjoyed watching the depleted 2005-2006 Suns because they played hard, and never gave up. This year has not been fun, so far.

[Shabazz]

The "no timeout" strategy has actually worked for us in the past, but it usually involved Nash taking or setting up the last shot .

Thank you Shawn Marion for reminding us all why we cringe a little every time you shoot.

I think Mike D's biggest mistake tonight was not giving Barbosa more time. I know Hill and Bell were the only two starters playing up to par, but Babs was having a great game. Should have found him more minutes. Maybe even a few more of Nash's.

I thought Diaw played pretty well tonight too. He was agressive and 8 assists in 19 minutes is solid.

The Utah game notwithstanding, something is clearly up with Nash's shot. Might have something to do with the fact that he has back, shoulder AND elbow problems. Maybe we should rest him for a couple of games .

[AlanS]

A few comments:

[1] Why are people so unhappy with this year's team?It's all about expectations.

Nobody really expected the Suns to win so much and go so far in 04/05, or 05/06. It was a joy to see those teams win like they did and go as far as they did.

The 06/07 team, i think it lived up to expectations. The had the 2nd most regular seasons, and they fell to the ventual NBA champs in a controversy filled series. Anyone could "understand" how things went down.

But this team, it's NOT living up to expectations. People are expecting SO much. People want double digit wins where the Suns pound everybody, and it's not happening. And until the suns play up to those expectations, there will continue to be a disconnect.

[2] I don't buy this idea that the players are lazy or don't care. To me, saying a team is lazy or uncaring, is just rationalizing away or simply ignoring the fact that a team is just not as good as you thought they were. In this NOH game, I don't think the Hornets cared more than the Suns; to me, it was a matter of the Hornets just being better. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

[3] Here's what worries me about the losses to Minny, Miama, and NO: the offensive execution in the 4th qtr. It's been terrible. All of those games winnable, but the Suns couldn't get good shots or make shots. Vs NO, Suns only scored 18 pts in the 4th; vs Minny, they only scored 13 4th qtr pts. The Suns did score 33 vs Miami in the 4th, but that was after a 17 pt 3rd qtr.

For various reasons, the high octane offense gets stuck in first gear too too often. This is putting enormous pressure on the defense, which simply isn't good enough to survive the problems the offense is having.

[4] Steve Nash is a god, but in this game, he was 4/12 from the field, and the Suns lost by 3 pts. He was 5/14 vs Minnesota, a 7 pt loss that was closer than the score indicates. In the 4pt loss to Miami, he was 4/13 from the field.

Isn't it time to ask, what's wrong with Steve? If not, why not? If he was shooting 45-50% from the field like he was at the start of the season, all of those games would probably have been victories.

[Spanky]

A few comments:

[1] Why are people so unhappy with this year's team?It's all about expectations.

Nobody really expected the Suns to win so much and go so far in 04/05, or 05/06. It was a joy to see those teams win like they did and go as far as they did.


I can explain my position, but I am only one. I am a fan, I always expect my team to win. When you say nobody, are you referring to national media? If so, Phoenix has always been a dumped on franchise from that respect. If that team could have that much success in earlier seasons, there is no reason why this current team can't. We have many of the same pieces, so it is natural to expect more. Sure a few personnel have been changed, maybe that factored a bit more than I thought it would. Either way, I expect my team to win.



But this team, it's NOT living up to expectations. People are expecting SO much. People want double digit wins where the Suns pound everybody, and it's not happening. And until the suns play up to those expectations, there will continue to be a disconnect. With so much success, with so many of the same pieces in place, why would the fan expect any less? Being a fan is all about expectations.

...and yes I'm on the sauce, so I may seem incoherent (as usual)

[desertcoast]

The organization flaunted that expectation overtly with the "Eyes On The Prize" marketing campaign.
I won't throw any stones at the fans for having high expectations at this point.

There's no division on what the overall goal is for this team.

People are expecting a championship drive.

Nothing about *this * year feels like a championship drive.

[Spanky]

I think it's time for some Judas Priest... Yeah, I like that shit, good night. :)

[RDM2]

Honestly I think this team just hates each others guts and doesn't wanna be out on the court with each other anymore after 4 years.

The fact D'Antoni has totally destroyed ALL of their roles has really thrown all chemistry for a loop, and I think its beginning to cause problems amongst the players.

[JackArse]

well shit.. the suns should just pack it in. they should just forfeit the rest of the season. sell off everyone on the team and start over.

i mean, they're not goig to win a championship, so they should just give up now.
/sets mode sarcasm to off

this is a team that is tired of playing regular season games, they just want to get back to the playoffs. things will be turned on by then. everybody (not everybody, but generally) bitches about people not getting playing time off the bench, then bitch when they get time and don't produce. then of course, if they lose by playing those extra players, then they bitch about losing because those players were on the floor in the first place.

as far as i'm concerned, which really means nothing anyways, thsi team is jsut ready for the postseason and doesnt' really care much for the regular season at this point. They'll pick it up against certain teams because they are some of the teams that they'll play in the playoffs, but other games they'll pretty much take off. tonight was just an all around bad game, but oh well, there's still like 50 games left..

grabs his beer and goes home.

[Mori_Chu]

If Amare isn't going to be a consistent low-post threat, then he's just another jump shooter on this team. Boris has one good game every four games. Nash is obviously hurting and yet Coach will play him 38 mins a game until his back breaks in half. Grant Hill was signed to play 20-25 mins and he's up over 30 + a night and it's only a matter of time before he destroys his ankles.
The Suns might as well send everyone on the bench home because they absolutely will not play no matter how sluggish the starter are.

WORD.

I also don't agree with everyone who says our effort or heart is the problem. I think the Suns are playing hard. But they aren't playing smart enough; they don't have the right direction; they aren't in the right places in the right times; they don't always even have the right group of guys out on the floor. I think a lack of depth, lack of shooters, and poor coaching are our main problems right now.

[JediSkywalker]

The "no timeout" strategy has actually worked for us in the past, but it usually involved Nash taking or setting up the last shot .

Thank you Shawn Marion for reminding us all why we cringe a little every time you shoot.

I think Mike D's biggest mistake tonight was not giving Barbosa more time. I know Hill and Bell were the only two starters playing up to par, but Babs was having a great game. Should have found him more minutes. Maybe even a few more of Nash's.
I thought Diaw played pretty well tonight too. He was agressive and 8 assists in 19 minutes is solid.
The Utah game notwithstanding, something is clearly up with Nash's shot. Might have something to do with the fact that he has back, shoulder AND elbow problems. Maybe we should rest him for a couple of games .

I agree on both counts- LB and Diaw. They just seemed to be on tonight, and should have been used more. That's where Dantoni drives me crazy. It is obvious what is working and what is not, but he does not make any changes to his plans during the game.

A scary thought entered my mind earlier. The Suns have lost 3 out of their last 4 games, and they have to play two of the toughest teams in the league on the road next. It could mean the Suns losing 5 out of 6 games. They absolutely need to beat the teams that are beatable (Minn, Miami, and possibly NOH).

[Phoenix219]

that would be the worst stretch we've had in like 4 years (losing 5 of 6)

[JediSkywalker]

well shit.. the suns should just pack it in. they should just forfeit the rest of the season. sell off everyone on the team and start over.

i mean, they're not goig to win a championship, so they should just give up now.
/sets mode sarcasm to off

this is a team that is tired of playing regular season games, they just want to get back to the playoffs. things will be turned on by then. everybody (not everybody, but generally) bitches about people not getting playing time off the bench, then bitch when they get time and don't produce. then of course, if they lose by playing those extra players, then they bitch about losing because those players were on the floor in the first place.

as far as i'm concerned, which really means nothing anyways, thsi team is jsut ready for the postseason and doesnt' really care much for the regular season at this point. They'll pick it up against certain teams because they are some of the teams that they'll play in the playoffs, but other games they'll pretty much take off. tonight was just an all around bad game, but oh well, there's still like 50 games left.. grabs his beer and goes home.

I don't think the team is ready for the post season or that it wants to be in the post season right now. It's the fans that want it to play like they are in the playoffs (intensity wise). I am contradicting myself here, putting some blame on the fans for expecting too much too soon. The flip side is that the team is not even playing like an above average team at this point, and that is a cause for concern. It is not just about the losses; it is the way they are losing. The loss to Miami was inexcusable, and so was the loss tonight to NOH. I am being lenient with them re: the Twolves game, but just about every team is beating Minn. That makes me think that even a tired Suns team on the road should have beaten them. It won't bother me too much if they played close games against Spurs, Mavs, Lakers, Denver, Celtics, Detroit and lost to all of them -OK, I am exaggerating here; it WILL bother me, but not as much as the stupid losses to below average teams, because I know they can win those games if they played their average games.

Given the injuries to key players (Nash clearly looks like he cannot get it done anymore and needs rest to heal; STAT seems to have lost a lot of his ability), this team could be in serious trouble. I get the feeling that this team is not going to rebound from the disasters of the last 3 losses in 4 games. I think Kerr will have to clean house during the off season, and Dantoni might be gone after this season. I just don't see how he can stick around after making such poor decisions time and time again.

[AZSportsFan]

Two days between games - holds true again. Another poor shooting night. That seals it. Oh well.

[desertcoast]

It might still be possible that they find themselves down the line, but they sure don't look ready for their next 2 ( hell, 4) opponents....:?

[Xcon]

I have a bad feeling about Stat. I think his best days are behind him, especially considering he's getting owned by Tyson Chandler. I'm about ready to give up and say we should trade him while his stock is still high. All this talk about working on defense, I just don't see it. He never keeps his guy from getting super low position on the block. And I don't want to hear the excuse that he's still recovering from the scope. That was was like 2 months ago. How long will that excuse fly. Just doesnt seem like he'll be close to the same player he was physically. The knees just scare me so much. I don't want to be stuck with him for the rest of his contract if he's going to become Weber II.

[JediSkywalker]

A few (more) thoughts:

This was a bad day for the Suns from all angles. SAS and Mavs won. Even Utah won, snapping their losing streak. Atlanta also won.

Looking back, last year at this time SAS did not look like a championship caliber team either. Is there hope for the Suns? Can they peak at the end of the season?SAS performance was planned to peak at the right time. I don't believe there were any plans involved in the Suns' poor performances.


Nash sounds very frustrated in his post game comments about the lack of defensive intensity by the team. I think he is getting dangerously close to blaming his teammates and it could create chemistry problems, particularly since Nash himself has not shot well recently (exception: Utah game) and he was not able to guard the NOH players. It does not sound like he is enjoying the game anymore. How long will he want to play? I think he might eventually retire ringless.

[JediSkywalker]

I have a bad feeling about Stat. I think his best days are behind him, especially considering he's getting owned by Tyson Chandler. I'm about ready to give up and say we should trade him while his stock is still high. All this talk about working on defense, I just don't see it. He never keeps his guy from getting super low position on the block. And I don't want to hear the excuse that he's still recovering from the scope. That was was like 2 months ago. How long will that excuse fly. Just doesnt seem like he'll be close to the same player he was physically. The knees just scare me so much. I don't want to be stuck with him for the rest of his contract if he's going to become Weber II.


His stock is no longer high. The time to trade him was during the last off season when other teams were interested in him. His weaknesses have been exposed too much now, to demand top price for him.

[JackArse]

here is one thing i've wondered though. they say that his knee has been feeling a little stiff lately, which is probably to do with the cold somewhat.. but why doesn't he wear a sleeve on this knees? to at least keep them warm?

is it an ego thing or what?

[JediSkywalker]

Those knees worry me a lot. I said that long before he had the arthrosopic surgery during this preseason.

Here is a crazy thought- what if the Suns were to trade the Atlanta pick and Banks for a quality center right now? It's not a knee jerk reaction. I believe the Suns need a true center and it was a horrible mistake to trade KT. I am just trying to see how Amare could return to his natural position (PF) and Shawn to his natural position (SF). I think Skinner has been a great addition but I don't see him as a starter.

[scosuns]

Watching this team half awake moving through the regular season and then waking up during parts of it just to go back to sleep is painful. I don't understand it. They even said they know waht they're doing wrong but yet they don't correct the problem. Rebound the basketball, be smart with your possessions, and most importantly, call a timeout with 14.1 seconds to go.


Now, to the timeout. D'Antoni is usually good about this. But for some odd reason, he was too lazy or high or something to call a TO. Why? We saw that Nash wasn't himself tonight. This was just painful. And then Marion's 16 million dollar arm can't even force a ball five feet to go in the hoop, or just even touch it.

Sorry, but this was just a painful game. This team has shown me no passion or fire.

[JackArse]

he think he tried to surprise them by not doing so, it works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't. it's a chance. i have no problem with it.

[Shabazz]

Not to harp on past losses, but it's interesting to point out that since the Wolves beat the suns their next 4 games went like this:

at Washington L 88-102
at Philadelphia L 94-98
Seattle L 88-99
at Milwaukee L 92-95

The Heat have also lost their 2 games since "turning the corner" against the Suns.

I'm generally an optimist, but it seems like we're missing a killer instict that we had last year. I can remember quite a few games last season where we were struggling against bad teams and Nash just wouldn't let us lose in the 4th quarter. It's sad that no one has asserted themselves more and taken that "closer" role with Nash hurting.

[scosuns]

Ahh!! I figured out the solution. The Suns should do what they did a few years ago and they should all grow facial hair. You know, maybe that will help.....

[JackArse]

i'm working on the skinner beard, should only take another 4 yrs or so

[ShelC]

It seems like we go thru this sort of thing every year. Nash is hurting, the team doesnt look right, nothing is in sync, some games theyre flat....Im not sying we'll be fine in the long run, but we shouldnt forget that these are issues we've dealt with the past 2-3 seasons so we shoulnt get too worked up. Again, its hard to play consistent basketball with our style. We hgave to take the good with the bad and not get too high or too low with wins or losses.

That said, i think given the personnel on this team, we'd be more suited for "traditional" NBA basketball moreso than any of the past 3 suns teams. We could be operating much more efficiently night in and night out by getting the most out of our possessions rather than the quick shots we're used to seeing this team take. It seems like the quick hit shots in transition arent there as much and we're just running the ball up court to get into the halfcourt set (since teams are getting back on D more and more against us). Then, we end up settling for long jumpers off the pick and roll too often in the halfcourt rather than executing and getting better shots from our guys.

[Dustbuster]

Is it just me or does it seem that D'Antoni's substitutions and rotations run pretty much always on schedule regardless of what is happening on the court? I don't know how many times I've seen a guy on a hot streak get yanked right in the middle of his flurry. And, no matter how poorly the starters or general rotation guys are playing on a particular night, no one new will be introduced.

Why not give Banks a few minutes as a heat check? I think that he could pull an Eddie House-score-in-buckets role every few games, which we actually seem to need this year.

Marion is particularly clueless offensively this year. I would like to see his shooting percentage sans dunks and layups. Last night was just unbelievably pathetic. Oh, and he really shouldn't be allowed to shoot threes...at all, anymore. I don't think there is a person on the team (including Skinner), who wouldn't have a similar or better percentage with the same number of shots he takes from out there. The funky shot that he's refused to work on his whole career, well, I think it is catching up with him.

[JediSkywalker]

Is it just me or does it seem that D'Antoni's substitutions and rotations run pretty much always on schedule regardless of what is happening on the court? I don't know how many times I've seen a guy on a hot streak get yanked right in the middle of his flurry. And, no matter how poorly the starters or general rotation guys are playing on a particular night, no one new will be introduced.

Why not give Banks a few minutes as a heat check? I think that he could pull an Eddie House-score-in-buckets role every few games, which we actually seem to need this year.

Marion is particularly clueless offensively this year. I would like to see his shooting percentage sans dunks and layups. Last night was just unbelievably pathetic. Oh, and he really shouldn't be allowed to shoot threes...at all, anymore. I don't think there is a person on the team (including Skinner), who wouldn't have a similar or better percentage with the same number of shots he takes from out there. The funky shot that he's refused to work on his whole career, well, I think it is catching up with him.

WORD. Dantoni is clueless about what is working/not working during the game. He cannot make decisions on the fly. That is why we see these 'scheduled' rotations. LB should have been in the game longer, particularly toward the end last night. Marion has never been a player who created a shot for himself. He occasionally makes a 3, but he is not a clutch shooter. I was screaming at the TV when he was taking shots instead of passing the ball to someone that can shoot better. He is the complete opposite of Diaw.

[Uncle_Gene]

Like I said, the jig IS up !

Teams know how to play the Suns. D'Antoni needs to play a traditional lineup more and have Skinner with Amare more. Teams aren't going to just roll over and let the Suns dominate anymore.

WAKEUP BOYS !!!!!!

[desertcoast]

On a lighter note, did anyone catch that "Frank TV" show on TBS last week where Frank Calieno sat in on the TNT set and did his Charles Barkley impersonation?

He has Chuck down...

I'll see if I can find a clip

[Spanky]

On a lighter note, did anyone catch that "Frank TV" show on TBS last week where Frank Calieno sat in on the TNT set and did his Charles Barkley impersonation?

He has Chuck down...

I'll see if I can find a clip

I didn't see that particular show, but I did see his impression during another episode. That guy is good.

[INFORMER]

I have a bad feeling about Stat. I think his best days are behind him . . . I'm about ready to give up and say we should trade him while his stock is still high.


His stock is no longer high. The time to trade him was during the last off season when other teams were interested in him. His weaknesses have been exposed too much now, to demand top price for him.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Look, I was really encouraged by the Utah game, then they lose to the Hornets and now there's no hope in sight?

These comments about Amare are shocking. But I didn't see the game, so I won't try to dispute them. I just can't believe things are this bad, the way they are portrayed in this thread.

[Mori_Chu]

We didn't lose because of Amare. He was not great, but as usual, nobody was getting him the ball. The only way he was getting shots was to come out for 20-footers. We did not use the big fella effectively at all.

[BobbyDogg]

We didn't lose because of Amare. He was not great, but as usual, nobody was getting him the ball. The only way he was getting shots was to come out for 20-footers. We did not use the big fella effectively at all.


D'Antoni needs to focus on running the offense through Amare more often. Right now, Amare just kind of watches and sets screens for Nash. He needs to get position down low and make plays.

[darrkin]

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Look, I was really encouraged by the Utah game, then they lose to the Hornets and now there's no hope in sight?

These comments about Amare are shocking. But I didn't see the game, so I won't try to dispute them. I just can't believe things are this bad, the way they are portrayed in this thread.


Over-reacting....just a little there guy!! Amare is obviously not all there yet, but Ive watched every game, and even in the NO game he had some very explosive plays. He just isnt quite as consistent yet due to his rehabbing still, it will probably be another month or so until he feels clsoer to normal. Anyone here who actually has played sports knows that knee injuries take a long time to get better. Even a simple scope can take a few months to feel completely normal.
Also I agree that we are not feeding him enough to get him involved more on the inside

[JediSkywalker]

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Look, I was really encouraged by the Utah game, then they lose to the Hornets and now there's no hope in sight?

These comments about Amare are shocking. But I didn't see the game, so I won't try to dispute them. I just can't believe things are this bad, the way they are portrayed in this thread.


On several occasions he was given the ball and he was near the basket but he just could not finish. He was not the only one. Marion missed baskets too, and Nash has not been shooting well, but Nash has well known injury issues right now. IMO he should rest for a week.

[sehan]

Over-reacting....just a little there guy!! Amare is obviously not all there yet, but Ive watched every game, and even in the NO game he had some very explosive plays. He just isnt quite as consistent yet due to his rehabbing still, it will probably be another month or so until he feels clsoer to normal. Anyone here who actually has played sports knows that knee injuries take a long time to get better. Even a simple scope can take a few months to feel completely normal.
Also I agree that we are not feeding him enough to get him involved more on the inside

My mom just had a "simple" scope done couple of months ago. She couldn't walk for a week and she limped on that knee for about a month. Granted she is 63 and doesn't have a team of her own doctors, but it is really amazing what these athletes do right after these surgeries.

Amare especially is amazing in how fast he comes back from those.... probably too fast for his own good. In hindsight, it probably would have done him and the team good to maybe seat for first couple of weeks.

[jed]

I'm with INF. I can't believe that anyone would float that Amare is the problem here. What a joke.

[desertcoast]

Yeah, Amare may have some glaring elements to his game that need work.

But it's nuts to seriously think of bailing on him before you've ever really experimented with building the offense around him.
I'm not sure how many years we've really got in this guy. I hope we try that approach before his abilities decline too much.

[JackArse]

one other thing, that i didn't think about til.. now.. a couple of days later.

amare didn't have his normal outside shots available to him, which is where he gets a normal 8-10 pts a night. kind of an interesting strategy, if that was done on purpose.

[INFORMER]

Over-reacting....just a little there guy!! Amare is obviously not all there yet, but Ive watched every game, and even in the NO game he had some very explosive plays. He just isnt quite as consistent yet due to his rehabbing still, it will probably be another month or so until he feels clsoer to normal. Anyone here who actually has played sports knows that knee injuries take a long time to get better. Even a simple scope can take a few months to feel completely normal.
Also I agree that we are not feeding him enough to get him involved more on the inside


Over-reacting? I think you missed the entire point of my post, darrkin.

[darrkin]

Over-reacting? I think you missed the entire point of my post, darrkin.

I meant the guy you quoted was overreacting INF...my mistake, I usually type while doing 42 other things so always very accuarte with my ramblings...sorry...I think you and I agreed in principal.

[INFORMER]

No problem. :wink: