Friday's News: Matrix materializes, Suns disrespected at the polls - as usual

[SwingMan]

(Sorry about the extreme lateness of the news thread, folks. I'm usually a night owl, but, for whatever reason, after work last night, I was beat out worse than an old tom head.....)

Suns again fueled by Marion's energy (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1213suns1214.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/pics/1213marion.jpg
Suns forward Shawn Marion reacts to a foul called against him during a recent game in Phoenix.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 13, 2007 10:48 PM

If there was one snapshot from the Suns' victory over Utah on Wednesday night that exemplified Shawn Marion's value, it came in the first quarter, when Jazz forward Andrei Kirilenko was alone with the ball 10 feet from the basket.

The closest three Suns were in the lane and under the hoop. Marion, behind two teammates, swatted the ball away from a driving Kirilenko, gathered it and headed upcourt for a give-and-go, alley-oop slam.

Marion could fill a highlight reel for the Web site he launched Thursday (www.matrix31.com) with the plays he made in Wednesday's game. Giving up height and weight, he did an admirable job on Jazz power forward Carlos Boozer, fronting him, stripping the ball from him, running shoulder to shoulder and making him shoot jumpers.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

Boozer did not shoot a free throw and needed 24 shots for 24 points, some of which came against Amaré Stoudemire or off loose balls.

Marion's relentless energy was evident Monday, too, when his teammates' spunk was lacking in a loss to Miami, and it was exactly what the Suns needed to outwork Utah. He made several second-effort plays. He went around a Jazz player to follow his own shot and score. He recovered his own bad pass. He tipped a rebound clear to himself.

Even an impressive stat line of 26 points, 15 rebounds and five blocks didn't quite do justice for the man whose energy can cover up Phoenix's defensive shortcomings at the post and the point.

"He was the player of the game in my eyes," Suns point guard Steve Nash said. "He was just so active and did so many things. Our defense was good primarily because of his activity and the way he covers up for people. We need that type of energy from him every night. That's really why he is the player he is. That's why his value is so big to us. Outstanding effort and performance. If he can continue to come with that type of energy, we're going to be tough to beat."

Marion has 13 blocks in the past three games and is fourth in the NBA in steals (2.3 per game).

"I'm able to read certain plays out there," Marion said. "Any kind of activity you can do to disturb the offense is good for the defense."

With an upcoming trip to New Orleans, San Antonio and Dallas, the Suns will look to carry the effort level and positive energy with them.

"We've got to play with that energy and intensity we played with against everybody," Nash said. "It made the game fun. It made us feel like a team. It made us feel like we could do some things and we have a future, so it was nice."

[SwingMan]

Suns trail in All-Star balloting (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1213sunsnb1214.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/pics/1214nashcov.jpg
Steve Nash during a game against the Orlando Magic on Nov. 30.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 13, 2007 10:47 PM

Fans love to watch the Suns, but not enough to have any of them start in the All-Star Game.

If Thursday's first vote totals of fan balloting are an indication of what starters will be announced Jan. 31, no Phoenix player will be voted in as a starter for a second consecutive year.

Suns point guard and two-time Most Valuable Player Steve Nash would be the top candidate but ranks third among Western Conference guards with 317,091 votes. He is behind Lakers star Kobe Bryant (569,302) and Houston's Tracy McGrady (388,959).
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

The fans voted Nash in as a 2006 All-Star starter when McGrady slid to forward on the ballot. Nash finished fourth last season behind Bryant, McGrady and Denver's Allen Iverson.

Phoenix's Amaré Stoudemire ranks second among West centers but faces a tall task against Houston's Yao Ming, whose lead of 2,451,718 votes to Stoudemire's 1,209,333 is a result of votes cast in China.

Phoenix's Shawn Marion (fifth) and Grant Hill (10th) also rank among West forwards.

Dental plan

Four years after Karl Malone's elbow busted Nash'sfront tooth, Nash wound up back in the dentist's chair Thursday when Carlos Boozer's arm hit the same tooth on a rebound just before halftime.

Add that to list of Nash's maladies for the season. Once again, it was revealed how much Nash has been bothered by other physical matters once he felt better. All those assists of late were by design to avoid shooting until Wednesday, when he made 10 of 12 shots.

"To be honest, I felt a little better physically," Nash said. "They were getting to the rim easily so I tried to be more aggressive once I felt my body could take it."

He said he was bothered in recent games by his usual back issues, his neck, right shoulder, right elbow and "stuff that's all spasmed up."

"It's a bit of a disaster."

Diaw more aggressive

Suns forward Boris Diaw's Wednesday stat line of eight points, six rebounds, two assists and a block in 22 minutes did not send fans scurrying to give him All-Star write-in votes, but it did bring the players on the sideline off their feet when he made two fourth-quarter three-point plays and set up another for Hill.

He hustled more for the ball and shot more when he had it (3 of 7 from the field). He was the main reason Phoenix maintained a lead until Nash returned for the stretch run.

"That's what we've got to get to - to play at the same level and same intensity," Diaw said. "When the starting five are off the court, we try to keep the same momentum."

The effort pleased Nash, who said, "We could use that aggressiveness every night. I don't care if he misses every shot he takes or he doesn't get any rebounds, as long as he . . . hustles and plays with aggression. His talent will make us a better team easily."

[SwingMan]

(The latest cheer and speculation with a flair for baggage from Dan Bickley - y'all think some of us here are Debbie Downers?)

Sizing Up the Suns (http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/12633)

So the Suns hung on to beat the Jazz. They played with enough passion and intensity to soothe the growing fears of a fractured team. And yet many people still can't grasp where these chemistry issues are coming from.

Try this: Of the starting five, one All-Star wanted to be traded in the off-season (Shawn Marion) and has shown no public signs of reconciliation. Another All-Star (Amare Stoudemire) isn't exactly thrilled with Mike D'Antoni's system, an offense based on spreading the wealth and passing the ball.

Look, it's no secret. Stoudemire wants to dominate games offensively. He doesn't want to spend the rest of his career guarding bigger centers. And on some level, I can't say I blame him. If you have a basketball team where Leandro Barbosa shoots more than a guy like Stoudemire, as was the case in 2006-07, then you're doing something wrong.

Thus, when you pair Stoudemire's outlook with Marion's outlook, on a team where the head coach has babied Boris Diaw in the past and played well-defined favorites, you've got the makings of a problem.

That's not to say such problems exist today, but chemisty is a fluid thing, with subtle changes and varying currents. Unfortunately, not as new means not as fun, and subtle changes are underway. D'Antoni has publicly addressed Diaw in a stern manner for the first time, with more reduction in minutes to come. His passivity has been placed on red alert, and I'm guessing it's something the rest of the room needed to hear.

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070517/070517_stoudemire_vmed_6p.widec.jpg

Meanwhile, Marion has scolded the media for blowing it all out proportion, meaning the win over the Jazz could be framed as a launching point for better team unity. Or maybe that won't occur until after the All-Star Break.

Even though I think the Suns have unfortunately widened the gap between themselves and San Antonio, I also choose to believe in this team, that they are ultimately bonded and steeled by the pain and heartbreak of the previous three postseasons. Getting through the holidays and into another calendar year may help them feel closer, literally and figuratively.

And I want to believe that when this group catches the scent of a title chase once again, things will get much better on Planet Orange.

[JackArse]

i'd almost rather see our guys rest anyways. it's fun to watch them, but always worried about that one freak thing.

[Wormwood]

Look, it's no secret. Stoudemire wants to dominate games offensively. He doesn't want to spend the rest of his career guarding bigger centers. And on some level, I can't say I blame him. If you have a basketball team where Leandro Barbosa shoots more than a guy like Stoudemire, as was the case in 2006-07, then you're doing something wrong.

I sort of agree with Amare about the centers thing. Why not start Skinner so Amare can concentrate on what he does well; weakside blocks on defense and scoring on offense. He plays so much better when he's not in foul trouble, and let's face it, when he's trying to avoid foul trouble he's worthless on defense in the post.

[JackArse]

if you do that, who do you sit?

[Phoenix219]

sit Hill. Hill can take control of the 2nd unit, control barbs and push diaw.

[zara_drummer]

LOL I used to own the www.matrix31.com domain!!

[Wormwood]

if you do that, who do you sit?

Hill. Slide Marion to the 3 spot, where he's happier anyway. Bring Hill, Diaw, and Barbosa off the bench at the 6 minute mark. Pick up one more big man (who isn't Marks) to continue to supply defense is Skinner gets in foul trouble. Play Amare at center only when Amare won't have to battle bigger guys (Camby, for example, or when a team tries to go small on us like Minny playing Craig Smith at C).

[tbrkingofthesouth]

I sort of agree with Amare about the centers thing. Why not start Skinner so Amare can concentrate on what he does well; weakside blocks on defense and scoring on offense. He plays so much better when he's not in foul trouble, and let's face it, when he's trying to avoid foul trouble he's worthless on defense in the post.

I agree..Malone needed Ostertag..Duncan had Robinson and Oberto..If we don't win the ring with this small ball crap this year it's time to make some changes Kerr

[DrSublime]

i think it was more..
Robinson had Duncan then Duncan had Robinson............

David Robinson was the better player back then, and honestly IMO, overall Robinson was the better player overall

[scosuns]

I agree, sit Hill. But then, if Marion moves back to his natural position at the 3, he loses that quick edge. Hmm. Coach should try it though.

[BigLewy]

The Bobcats acquired Nazr from Detroit for Hermann and Brezec. Hermann will help the Pistons I think-good deal for both teams.

[OE]

David Robinson was the better player back then, and honestly IMO, overall Robinson was the better player overall

:roll:

I said a month ago that we needed a center and that we could have a devastating half-court offense. I then changed my mind and thought that if we're going to play run-n-gun small-ball, then we should trade Amare because he doesn't fit the system. What we have now is a hybrid system. It's somewhat of a shame, too: Amare really could be one of the best PFs of all-time, but he will not be one of the greatest centers. Stick him next to a great defensive center, and that team could at least as many games as this one with less talent.

The longer D'Antoni embraces this nostalgia for 04-05, the worse he is for Amare's career. There's not a player his size in history who could fly 82 games a season for 10 years straight. He's put in the work to be a dominant offensive player; still, we choose to run Nash into the ground.

I don't mean to sound so down. I like this team. But (and I'll say it til I'm blue in the face) AMARE IS NOT A CENTER!!!

[v9]

AMARE IS NOT A CENTER!!!

I'll agree with that one...but what can the Suns do to get another real center?

Had the Suns signed Okur instead of Q:

- No pissed-off JJ
- A solid center with a great jumper

Nash/Barbosa
JJ/Barbosa
Marion
Amare
Okur

Or had the Suns been able to pull of Marion for KG (who's basically a center):

Nash
Raja
Hill
Amare
KG

Too painful...I'll stop here.

[DrSublime]

Nash/Barbosa
JJ/Barbosa
Marion
Amare
Okur



most perfect lineup ever

and consider how high the suns were for Diaw, im guessing they would have gotten him also anyway

[OE]

I'll agree with that one...but what can the Suns do to get another real center?

It really isn't worth discussing right now because D'Antoni will not ditch this system until fact forces his hand; in other words, we won't be putting together a traditional line-up this year.As such, I think we're unlikely to win.

At least, I could hope that when Nash goes out, we start running the offense through Amare rather than through Barbosa. Barring a trade, we have to make that transition sooner or later because Nash won't be able to get 18 and 15 for us forever. One day, D'Antoni's going to realize that his "system" always was a 1-man show, and it will be a real shame, because here we'll be with no Nash but a beast in Amare waiting in the post and not a single play designed to get him the ball.

If I'm Amare, I'm begging to be a Chicago Bull.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Amare is not a center!

[JediSkywalker]

Amare is not a center!

Dantoni, in his stubborn ways makes Amare play a position (Center)that he is not the strongest at. Amare himself indicated that it is not his favorite position. We don't get the best out of him when he has to play an unnatural position for him. So I am with everyone that says the Suns need a true center.

[AZSportsFan]

Nash/Barbosa
JJ/Barbosa
Marion
Amare
Okur



most perfect lineup ever

and consider how high the suns were for Diaw, im guessing they would have gotten him also anyway

On offense, sure. On defense? Not a chance!

[AlanS]

Try this: Of the starting five, one All-Star wanted to be traded in the off-season (Shawn Marion) and has shown no public signs of reconciliation.

This is missing context. Marion asked to be traded in reaction to the Suns trying to trade him (first, to Boston - which was then Garnett-less and likely a cellar dweller) and then to Utah (which is not a favorite place for most NBA players). Marion wanting to be traded is more about controlling where HE WANTS to go, versus the Suns trading him to a place where he doesn't to go.

And so what, he hasn't shown "public signs"? He hasn't brought up the subject, and his play has been solid. Isn't that what matters?

Another All-Star (Amare Stoudemire) isn't exactly thrilled with Mike D'Antoni's system, an offense based on spreading the wealth and passing the ball. If you have a basketball team where Leandro Barbosa shoots more than a guy like Stoudemire, as was the case in 2006-07, then you're doing something wrong.

This is misleading. Barbosa had 55 more FGAs than Amare last season; but Amare had 353 more FTAs last season. So Amare was getting more shots in total. Meanwhile, Amare played 32 minutes per game last season. Much (most?) of Barbosa's scoring came off the bench while Stat was sitting. It's not fair to say/imply LB was taking shots from Amare.

Thus, when you pair Stoudemire's outlook with Marion's outlook, on a team where the head coach has babied Boris Diaw in the past and played well-defined favorites, you've got the makings of a problem.

That's not to say such problems exist today,

In other words, the article is nothing but a reporter's speculation. How enlightening is that, really?

[JackArse]

Hill. Slide Marion to the 3 spot, where he's happier anyway. Bring Hill, Diaw, and Barbosa off the bench at the 6 minute mark. Pick up one more big man (who isn't Marks) to continue to supply defense is Skinner gets in foul trouble. Play Amare at center only when Amare won't have to battle bigger guys (Camby, for example, or when a team tries to go small on us like Minny playing Craig Smith at C).

ok, so you move hill to the bench, now you have no one other than nash that can really penetrate the lane on the offensive end, and you lose a midrange/corner 3 pt shooter. therefore you can't spread the floor as much. teams are going to key in on amare even more. right now they have to acct for hill on the outside more than they'd have to account for skinner.

granted.. hehe.. granted.. no pun intended. anyways, if we're running it doesn't matter as much, but we've been settling into a half court game more lately.

i'm not saying it shouldn't be tried, i'm just saying.

[SpecialSauce]

ok, so you move hill to the bench, now you have no one other than nash that can really penetrate the lane on the offensive end, and you lose a midrange/corner 3 pt shooter. therefore you can't spread the floor as much. teams are going to key in on amare even more. right now they have to acct for hill on the outside more than they'd have to account for skinner.

granted.. hehe.. granted.. no pun intended. anyways, if we're running it doesn't matter as much, but we've been settling into a half court game more lately.

i'm not saying it shouldn't be tried, i'm just saying.

MR, you owe us a poem!!! I want a poem dammit! Granted is basically the same exact thing as "with that said." Somebody is just trying to wiggle their way outta getting poemized!

[sunsdotcom]

it's harder to acquire a quality defensive big man to play alongside amare without overpaying. and i don't think dantoni is willing to play any big stiff just for the sake of going big.

so instead of acquiring a center, i think what we need is to add more skill and athleticism in the SG/SF position so we can get younger and faster and go all the way with smallball ala Golden state.

[JediSkywalker]

"...Fans love to watch the Suns, but not enough to have any of them start in the All-Star Game.

If Thursday's first vote totals of fan balloting are an indication of what starters will be announced Jan. 31, no Phoenix player will be voted in as a starter for a second consecutive year.

Suns point guard and two-time Most Valuable Player Steve Nash would be the top candidate but ranks third among Western Conference guards with 317,091 votes. He is behind Lakers star Kobe Bryant (569,302) and Houston's Tracy McGrady (388,959)..."

It's just like last year. No offense to TMac, but I don't understand his popularity compared with Nash. The fan vote is just a popularity contest for individual players. Last year Shaq and Yao were voted in, even though they were injured and not playing for several weeks. The coaches poll usually puts the Suns players on the All star teams, but the fan vote will obviously keep them from starting. However, I think at this time the Suns need to focus on the final goal- the NBA title, and not get hung up on whether or not they get selected to the All star game. I think Matrix and STAT might be bothered by not being selected to start (or not selected at all); Nash won't be, even though he really should place 1st among guards.

I am doing my part, however, voting every day.

[v9]

No offense to TMac, but I don't understand his popularity compared with Nash.

1.3 billion Chinese

[Mori_Chu]

Sorry, but the vote should be US only. Why allow every single citizen of China to not only force Yao into every year's all-star starting lineup, but also T-Mac? And I'm sure they're all voting for Yi, too. How many votes has Yi got?

[Andy_S]

Why allow every single citizen of China to not only force Yao into every year's all-star starting lineup, but also T-Mac?

$$$$$$

Who cares? It's a worthless game anyway.

[Ring_Wanted]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/49730/20071214/pistons_trade_nazr_to_charlotte_for_brezec_and_her rmann/


Pistons trade center Nazr Mohammed for two Bobcats, cut forward Ronald Dupree

December 14, 2007

By CHRIS SILVA

FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

The Pistons traded center Nazr Mohammed to Charlotte on Friday and also waived forward Ronald Dupree.

The Pistons acquired center Primoz Brezec and forward Walter Herrmann in exchange for Mohammed, who appeared in every game this season except for Wednesday in Houston.

Advertisement
“We are pleased to welcome Primoz and Walter to the Pistons organization and we feel they will help add depth to our front court positions,” Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars said. “We appreciate hard work and professionalism that Nazr and Ronald both displayed during their time here in Detroit and we wish both of them well.”

Mohammed averaged 3.3 points and 3.5 rebounds in 11.1 minutes a game this season, while Dupree was on the inactive list for all but two games this year.

The 7-1 Brezec started 18 of 20 games for Charlotte this season, averaging 1.9 points and 2.2 rebounds. Hermann averaged 4.0 points and 2.1 rebounds in 17 games off the bench.

Contact Chris Silva at 586-469-4923 or at csilva@freepress.com.

[Ring_Wanted]

Unreal trade for the Pistons. They get rid of a very bad contract and get two useful players with expiring deals without giving up any 1stR. If they can integrate Herrman in their rotation, watch out.. Dump move by the Bobcats. They don't seem to know where they are going.

[Mori_Chu]

Why did the Bobcats do this? I thought Herrmann was good or something. And I can't remember Nazr Mohammed making any impact for the Pistons at all.

[SpecialSauce]

Oh no, not Walter Hermann!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We're doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wormwood]

Nazr Mohammed has been a monumental bust in Detroit. His contract is big, and goes on forever. How come they can ditch his butt but we can't give away KT without selling the farm? Why can't we get a new home for Banks? WTF!?! Seriously, though, Hermann's a pretty good player who would thrive in an uptempo, European style system. And Kerr can't seem to pull the trigger on anything that doesn't fall into his lap.

Kerr: <ring>. "Oh, Hi Grant......You want to play in Phoenix? Yeah that's OK I guess, but you'll have to play for the bi-annual vet minimim. What? You will... really? Ummmm....OK, I'll still have to clear it with Darth Sid...I mean Mr. Sarver...."

Later....
.
.
.
Kerr: "Mr. Presti? Hi. Hey, would you be willing to take two unprotected first round draft picks and a center who could average 10 rebounds per game, has a great attitude, great defense, and only has one year on his contract off our hands?.... What do I want?.... My opening bid is nothing, since my boss promised he'd sell my kids to a sweatshop in some asian country if I didn't do this deal...."
.
.
.
Kerr: <ring> "Hello? Oh, hey Brian. Yeah there's still a roster spot, but we'll only pay you the minimum..... Really? You're OK with that? Yeah, sure we'll let you work out here, but you'll have to pay for the plane tickets.... You're still OK with that?! Ummm... that's not the answer I was expecting, but OK..."

[DrSublime]

worm
who's Brian?

[JackArse]

skinner

[Ring_Wanted]

Why can't we make deals like this one? Perception. Everybody in the L think the Hell will freeze before Sarver pays a big L tax. That gives GMs power in negotiations, and it translates into surrending 1stRs (at least I hope that is the case, because otherwise, it means our FO puts 0 value on 1stRs, and that thought is scary).

What position is our GM in when trying to move KT, JJones or Banks if the sense of urgency to avoid the tax is palpable to every fan, let alone the guys who are in the bussiness?

Fiscal responsibility is great. Letting others believe you are cheap is very dangerous.

[Wormwood]

Ring...

AMEN. I wrote something similar to this a while back. People will always hard ball you when they think you're only willing to sell when you're panicked.

[Ring_Wanted]

That's the key, WW. Other GMs have to think you are going to do what's best for the team, not the wallet. Now, the truth can be just the opposite, but starting negotiations in a weak position is unacceptable, moreso when in this bussiness, being a penny rich ends up baing pound fool, or however it's said..

[misteradiant]

Nazr Mohammed has been a monumental bust in Detroit. His contract is big, and goes on forever. How come they can ditch his butt but we can't give away KT without selling the farm? Why can't we get a new home for Banks? WTF!?! Seriously, though, Hermann's a pretty good player who would thrive in an uptempo, European style system. And Kerr can't seem to pull the trigger on anything that doesn't fall into his lap.

Kerr: <ring>. "Oh, Hi Grant......You want to play in Phoenix? Yeah that's OK I guess, but you'll have to play for the bi-annual vet minimim. What? You will... really? Ummmm....OK, I'll still have to clear it with Darth Sid...I mean Mr. Sarver...."

Later....
.
.
.
Kerr: "Mr. Presti? Hi. Hey, would you be willing to take two unprotected first round draft picks and a center who could average 10 rebounds per game, has a great attitude, great defense, and only has one year on his contract off our hands?.... What do I want?.... My opening bid is nothing, since my boss promised he'd sell my kids to a sweatshop in some asian country if I didn't do this deal...."
.
.
.
Kerr: <ring> "Hello? Oh, hey Brian. Yeah there's still a roster spot, but we'll only pay you the minimum..... Really? You're OK with that? Yeah, sure we'll let you work out here, but you'll have to pay for the plane tickets.... You're still OK with that?! Ummm... that's not the answer I was expecting, but OK..."

great post.

and "who's brian?" hysterical. how can you miss the huge black dude with the bleached goatee and not know both his first and last names? i can only guess sublime hasn't seen a suns game on tv this year or read the newspaper here or in paper form. that begs the question - what does he do here if he isn't reading about the suns? wow....

it's either that or drugs. hm, probably drugs. damn. now the government is on to you, sublime. expect that knock on your door soon. he'll be disguised as a delivery man at the wrong location, but that's just to get closeup photos of you and anything they can get past you and into your home with the hidden camera in his clipboard. they know the books i read and maybe the scent of candles the girls i live with burn. what will they find out about you? anyway, better change your moniker and come back a little less obvious about it.

this is also what they know since they knocked on my door; misteradiant is not me. he is who i am here. what he does and what i do (the guy playing misteradiant, typing these words) are sometimes incongruently correlated. there's that word again. it's happened before, the fictional incongruity with what you think i am. anyway, i'm just a writer.

and again, wormwood, great post. it inspired me. thanks.

[JediSkywalker]

Worm,

Thanks for a laugh. I needed that.