Send Diaw to the D-League

[sunsdotcom]

I miss the old Diaw. I want to see some high scoring, triple double games from him to inprove his confidence. And activate tucker pls.

[DrSublime]

9 mil to the D-League.
never gona happen

i just pray to god diaw isnt having the Don MacLean MOST IMPROVED PLAYER syndrome... blech

[sunsdotcom]

i think diaw can take it.

with his temperament, i don't think he'll take it as an insult. it's a "confidence building" measure for him.

[DrSublime]

Diaw may be able to take it
but i dont think Sarver/Kerr could justify sending so much salary to the D League

[SpecialSauce]

send Barbosa to the operating table so they can surgically implant a brain

[JediSkywalker]

Diaw may be able to take it
but i dont think Sarver/Kerr could justify sending so much salary to the D League

Can they justify putting him on the court in the NBA? He is doing nothing- for that salary.

[frezix]

I laughed really hard when I saw this on my RSS feed. I do agree with everyone, that NBA franchises don't like admitting that they make mistakes, and sending him to the D-league would effectively confirm that.

[fixxxer]

Only first and second year players can be sent to the D-League. Diaw doesn't qualify.

[Uncle_Gene]

Exactly, it's a moot point.

[Wormwood]

Only first and second year players can be sent to the D-League. Diaw doesn't qualify.

Then why is Randy Livingston there?

[ShelC]

I dont know the exact rules, but i dont think "veterans" under contract can be sent down by a team. Livingston isnt under contract with any team, so even tho hes a major veteran, he can sign down there trying to work his way back.

[jed]

A nice thought, but we'd never do it. Truth is, he may be that player that every team fears -- the one that player stellar in a contract year.

[ShelC]

I still dont believe that.

[Mori_Chu]

I agree; I still think that if we find the right way to use and motivate Diaw, he will contribute. He has lost his identity and his role on the team. We have to find the right rotations, and the right plays, to make him meaningful again. Unlike some of our other players, we can't just throw Diaw out there and expect great numbers. This is a test of our coaching, and frankly I'm not optimistic.

[CNY_xplant]

I agree; I still think that if we find the right way to use and motivate Diaw, he will contribute. He has lost his identity and his role on the team. We have to find the right rotations, and the right plays, to make him meaningful again. Unlike some of our other players, we can't just throw Diaw out there and expect great numbers. This is a test of our coaching, and frankly I'm not optimistic.

I agree with Mori on this. I think Diaw is the type of player that functions best when his role is clearly defined for him. When Amare was out, his role was clear and that is why he put up such good numbers that year. Since Amare has returned, I don't think that Coach has done a good enough job with that definition.

Don't get me wrong, I still think that a player making Diaw's salary shouldn't need as much hand holding as he needs. He should be able to define his own role out there. That is Coach's MO and Boris just doesn't seem to know how to do that.

I also don't agree with the trade Diaw talk right now. It's premature for that discussion. If he doesn't begin to show improvement in his aggressiveness and consistency by mid-January, then fine, let's talk trade. When he is on, he is a force to be reckoned with. It's just figuring out how to flip that switch on permanently. And I am optimistic that it will happen.

In no way do I agree with the "Coach should be fired" garbage that gets spewed around here, but he needs to change and be more flexible in his rotations if he wants to maintain his job security. I mean, honestly, how can you fire a coach that consistently produces successful seasons, regardless of the championship? I honestly believe that Kerr will end up having a positive effect on Mike's coaching style by the end of this season. Kerr understands what it takes to win the title and I don't think that he'll allow things to get out of hand.

[jed]

I still dont believe that.

I would love for him to give me evidence to the contrary. I don't hate the guy like some. I just would like to see him wake up.

[scosuns]

Trading him is not the answer. At least not yet. The problem is he isn't playing well. He seems uncomfortable, and there is no passion or fire. There is no reason for him to be working hard. He seems lackadaisical. We need to do something to show him he needs to work on this more. This includes the coaching staff helping out.

I think maybe we should bench him, or at least give him very low minutes. I know it kind of sounds stupid, but the guy needs to wake up. I mean, in the few minutes Marks got, he looked ok. Obviously, this doesn't work for all opponents. But, if we can give Skinner more minutes, than maybe this isn't so mad.

Bottom line: Diaw needs to be taken out of his comfort zone quick and to be woken up.

[AlanS]

Given his salary and current performance, Diaw is untradeable... nobody wants him. You'd have to package him with a player whose putting up good numbers...

[JediSkywalker]

I agree with Mori on this. I think Diaw is the type of player that functions best when his role is clearly defined for him. When Amare was out, his role was clear and that is why he put up such good numbers that year. Since Amare has returned, I don't think that Coach has done a good enough job with that definition.

Don't get me wrong, I still think that a player making Diaw's salary shouldn't need as much hand holding as he needs. He should be able to define his own role out there. That is Coach's MO and Boris just doesn't seem to know how to do that.

I also don't agree with the trade Diaw talk right now. It's premature for that discussion. If he doesn't begin to show improvement in his aggressiveness and consistency by mid-January, then fine, let's talk trade. When he is on, he is a force to be reckoned with. It's just figuring out how to flip that switch on permanently. And I am optimistic that it will happen.

In no way do I agree with the "Coach should be fired" garbage that gets spewed around here, but he needs to change and be more flexible in his rotations if he wants to maintain his job security. I mean, honestly, how can you fire a coach that consistently produces successful seasons, regardless of the championship? I honestly believe that Kerr will end up having a positive effect on Mike's coaching style by the end of this season. Kerr understands what it takes to win the title and I don't think that he'll allow things to get out of hand.


I think you just contradicted yourself- sort of. You admit that Dantoni is inflexible and he would have to change his ways, for the Suns to win the title. He is not going to do that, by definition ('inflexible'). I think the fans here have seen enough of 50-60 win seasons; they want a championship trophy. They need a coach who can bring them that prize, and I am not convinced that Dantoni can do that. He had the pieces needed for it, esp. last year. You can blame it on Horry or Stern, but the bottom line is the bench was not ready to produce and it had to be Dantoni's fault, at least partly. The worst thing is he does not learn from his mistakes.

I do share your optimism about Kerr, however. I am hoping that he would twist Dantoni's arm if he is not getting it done. Unfortunately losing draft picks for 3 years in a row has created a vacuum, and the future is not better either in terms of draft picks. The Suns need to get it done this year or next. After that, Dantoni should move on to another team or retire.

[JediSkywalker]

Trading him is not the answer. At least not yet. The problem is he isn't playing well. He seems uncomfortable, and there is no passion or fire. There is no reason for him to be working hard. He seems lackadaisical. We need to do something to show him he needs to work on this more. This includes the coaching staff helping out.

I think maybe we should bench him, or at least give him very low minutes. I know it kind of sounds stupid, but the guy needs to wake up. I mean, in the few minutes Marks got, he looked ok. Obviously, this doesn't work for all opponents. But, if we can give Skinner more minutes, than maybe this isn't so mad.

Bottom line: Diaw needs to be taken out of his comfort zone quick and to be woken up.

Against Utah he seemed to be waking up. The problem is he does not stay awake for very long. May be benching him in favor of Skinner would light the fire. I think that is already happening, but probably not enough.

[Andy_S]

I agree; I still think that if we find the right way to use and motivate Diaw, he will contribute. He has lost his identity and his role on the team. We have to find the right rotations, and the right plays, to make him meaningful again. Unlike some of our other players, we can't just throw Diaw out there and expect great numbers. This is a test of our coaching, and frankly I'm not optimistic.

The purpose of our team is not to find a place for Diaw. I'm all for coddling his inner child if that's what it takes to get him to play well, but I'm not up for the coaching staff bending over and letting him have his way with them like some American woman just because we want to let him play well. He's one overpaid player -- he can either earn his contract by playing in the system we have, or not earn it and do what he's doing.

We need to win a championship. Diaw isn't the key to that happening. He could help, but we don't need to break the team just to let him contribute, if he's incapable of doing that on his own. And frankly, I'm not optimistic that he is capable of doing what he's being asked, so I guess he's going to go down in the history books as a guy who outperformed just because he had a contract to win. And that is not the coaching staff's fault.

[Mori_Chu]

But if he's capable of being a productive, valuable player if we only used him right, why shouldn't we find a way to do that? You'd rather misuse him, watch him fail, and then blame him? Why not do everything we can to make the most of this asset to our team?

And, for the record, I'm all for doing the same with Banks and DJ. I think we should have a 10-man rotation, with DJ or Banks getting a decent number of minutes on any given night and competing for that 9th-man role.

[Andy_S]

That begs the question of if he is capable of being a productive, valuable player if we only used him right. What is the formula to using Diaw right? Don't worry, I don't expect you to have it...but he's been mediocre since we've had Amare around. You blame all of that on the coaches -- I think Diaw has some share of the blame. Most of it. He never deserved the contract we gave him, but we did...and he's not earning it. At all. And that is not the coaches' fault.

[ShelC]

What is the formula to using Diaw right?

Getting the ball into his hands and letting him create and make plays in the halfcourt. He can overpower smaller 3s with his back to the basket and take 5s off the dribble for layups or kickouts to our shooters. He did this for the better part of 05-06, including the playoffs, and proved capable of doing so against Harping the other night against the jazz. Hes not useful moving without the ball and setting up for shots or drives like a Barbs, Raja, Amare, Hill...He needs the ball to create shots for those guys.

We need to win a championship. Diaw isn't the key to that happening.

He could be if used properly. Hes not the end-all be-all, but we're an infinitely better team if hes doing his thing.

[Miamisun]

Diaw is our insurance policy to Amare's knees.

[JustWinBaby]

Diaw is our insurance policy to Amare's knees.

How did that insurnace policy work out last time.

Boris earned his $45 Million contract - based on play that was a blip on the radar screen.

His play that year earned us about the same number on wins and losses. It also produced 2 - 7 game playoff wins prior to being dispatched by the Mavs.

Without the TT acquisition we would not have got out of the first round.

What did we do.

We gave Boris big money and short changed TT while acquiring Banks - after giving LB a fair contract.

What if?

We if had just combined the Banks money and Boris money we spent and signed TT first and advised Boris this is all we have left take it or leave it?

If Boris walked this past summer so be it - he would have recieved no more than the MLE - if that.

My guess is that we would have a banner hanging from the rafters and would be odds on favorites this year - to hell with the Spurs.

I just think a Amare, TT and Marion front court would be amazing.

Still wake up nights think how stupid we were in not resigning TT. Of all the bad moves we have made in my mind that is at the top of the list.

[ShelC]

Good, stay up at night thinking about TT. TT was a flash in the pan more so than Boris. Diaw singlehandedly killed the Mavs for us. TT had a few big shots, but didnt warrant a contract more than Diaw. TT was the ultimate contract year player and we knew it. Whats he done since going to LA? Does he warrant twice the money we were offering? The coaches were right about him then regarding his contract (he'll break your heart for too much money). I dont blame them for not giving him 24mil. I blame MikeD (GM at the time) for not doing his HW on banks and overreacting to Salmons burning us. Thats what did us in with banks.

My guess is that we would have a banner hanging from the rafters and would be odds on favorites this year - to hell with the Spurs.

:roll:

If Boris walked this past summer so be it - he would have recieved no more than the MLE - if that.

No doubt....im sure thats what Sarver was saying about JJ in August of 2004.

[JustWinBaby]

{Diaw singlehandedly killed the Mavs for us.}

Yep he sure did and we lost in six games.

Give up trying to justify Boris and downplaying TT's impact.

Boris has the worst contract in the league bar none and should never have received it.

We were no better than a 500 team with Boris leading the parade.

Boris was and is worth no more than the MLE if that. He is struggling to be even and average NBA player let alone a &45 Million player.

TT is worth the MLE. His problems can be related to playing on the Knicks and currently playing for one of the most overated coaches in the league Dunleavy. Coach Dunleavy should receive as much credit for our win in the playoffs year before last as Raja's SHOT.

[bobster]

tim thomas this year -

33.5 min
.381 FG%
5.5 reb
13.5 points


ungh.

[1tinsoldier]

I believe the criticism of Diaw is over done. His approach to the game is a sound one rooted in team play and, of course, stats don't always paint an accurate picture. It is not a bad thing that he defers the offense to others, except when he is passes up open shots. If I were coach this would be my ideal shot selection/distribution list:

1. Amare - inside
2. Marion - inside from Nash
3. Nash - anywhere
4. Hill - drive or midrange
6. Barbosa - drive
7. Amare - midrange
8. Diaw - post up when Amare is out
9. Skinner - within 15 ft.
10. Barbosa - 3
11. Bell - 3
12. Hill - 3

It is also possible (emphasis on "possible") that his unselfish team play helps others in regards to positioning for rebounds, steals, blocks, EGOS, etc..

What is his +/- number when he is on the floor?

[Mori_Chu]

That begs the question of if he is capable of being a productive, valuable player if we only used him right.

No, it raises that question. Begging the question is a logical fallacy of assuming the answer to a question you're asking. Using it to mean, "raises the question" is a common grammatical error.

I agree with others that Boris is also our injury insurance for our other bigs, especially Amare. If Amare went down and we didn't have Diaw, we'd basically be toast for the rest of the season. As it is, honestly I'm not terrified at the prospect of Amare missing 10-15 games, because I know Diaw would step in and raise his game. 05-06 was only a "fluke" for him insofar as we have been unable to create that team atmosphere for him again. If he really had to be our primary big man, I know he would still respond. You see it from him still at times this year, though not as often as we'd like.

The bottom line is I never watch a game and end up saying, "Boris Diaw lost that game for us." Even when he's too passive, he's usually playing smart and not doing bad things to hurt us like turning the ball over or missing tons of shots. He also plays underrated post defense on a lot of the league's big men, including guys like Shaq and Dwight Howard. Taking all of it together, I think he's a lot more valuable to us than many of you give him credit for. He's not worth his current salary, but if I could just make him and his contract magically disappear from our team, honestly I wouldn't.

[Miamisun]

I agree that Boris is not earning his keep right now. He is way to passive for a team that needs some enforcers and some overall toughness. What I do think though is that at some point we may need Boris. With the addition of Grant Hill in TT place we would be better than the 05 squad if Amare were to go down for any extended length of time. Just just hypothetically say we traded Boris. If Amare were to go down, what would the lineup be. We would have Skinner and Marion as our bigs and both do not have the court vision that Diaw has. I am not making excuses for Diaw's sudden loss of aggressiveness but we need to bite the bullet right now and hang on to him for insurance. At years end when we can find another insurance policy for Amare then we go for it, but not in the middle of a championship run.

[SpecialSauce]

"
Still wake up nights think how stupid we were in not resigning TT. Of all the bad moves we have made in my mind that is at the top of the list."

Do you actually wake up at night and think that? Really, do you? Because if you do, I find it hilarious :)

[Miamisun]

yes TT (05) was great, but he has not been the same since. I am sure Diaw or Banks for TT could easily happen if the coaching staff really wanted him. The person I wish we didn't let get away is House. He has been on fire lately and that instant offense was exciting coming from the bench.

[SwingMan]

I'm certainly not touting Banks here JWB, but I'm with Shel on this one - T-square has all the backbone of a paramecium when a contract ain't at stake.

[ShelC]

Yep he sure did and we lost in six games.

Cuz im sure Raja tearing a calf muscle had nothing to do with that. Neither does the fact that we were leading at halftime of all the games and couldnt finish them out.

TT is worth the MLE. His problems can be related to playing on the Knicks and currently playing for one of the most overated coaches in the league Dunleavy.

And what about playing for the Sixers, Bucks and being sent home after 3 games with the bulls? And he also had his best scoring year (a monster 15.8ppg) with the Knicks. He didnt do squat last year with the Clips and his numbers are slighly up this year because of Brand injury. But even then, he hasnt stepped up the way you'd hope.

[Mori_Chu]

I miss TT, but he was not worth the money the Clips gave him. He has been pretty ordinary and unimpressive the last 2 seasons.

One main reason he had such a huge impact for us in 05-06 was precisely because he had sat out and rested most of the season, so he was totally fresh and ready to have a big impact in the late season and postseason.

[JediSkywalker]

I miss TT, but he was not worth the money the Clips gave him. He has been pretty ordinary and unimpressive the last 2 seasons.

One main reason he had such a huge impact for us in 05-06 was precisely because he had sat out and rested most of the season, so he was totally fresh and ready to have a big impact in the late season and postseason.

I am not so sure. I think TT was a better fit with the Suns offense than with the Clips or the other teams he played for. It is possible that he raises his intensity come playoff time, but so does everyone else. In the Suns run and gun system he would have performed better than he did with the Clips.

[Phoenix219]

TT instead of Banks, House instead of Pike (still don't get HOW in the world THAT happened), and i think we'd be in great shape this year.

Nash/House/DJ
Bell/Barbs
Hill/Diaw/Tucker
Marion/TT
Amare/Skinner

[JediSkywalker]

Garnett instead of STAT or MATRIX would have given us a great lineup too, but with a weak bench (Banks, Pike, Marks with the nonproductive pieces)

[scosuns]

Theres so many things we can consider. Whatever it is, this team needs to get pissed off and angry. Theres no fire under there a**. I wanna see passion and care. It just looks like they think something will bail them out of their situation, but by then its too late. As someone else said, when was the last time we blew someone out?

[Mori_Chu]

I think our FO made the mistake of deciding that House was useless because he did so badly in the playoffs. Fact is, he may be totally worthless in the postseason, but he won us plenty of regular-season games and saved our butts. By having him around, we didn't have to kill ourselves as much getting to the playoffs. And, even if he can't shoot in the postseason, that was still valuable.

[Dustbuster]

One problem with Boris this year is that he has been passing out the ball like usual, but this year guys aren't hitting the dagger threes that helped make him productive. I certainly want him to take and make more shots, but part of the reason that his numbers have looked worse is that he hasn't been surrounded by shooters like he was in the past. Raja and Leandro have been all over the place, and who else does he have to pass the ball to? He's not on the court with Nash all that much. Half the time the ball has to come out to Marion, whose shot invariable bounces off the SIDE of rim where no one can rebound it.

[JediSkywalker]

I agree with some of that. The Suns in general are not shooting well this season. So everyone's numbers look poor. However, in Diaw's case I don't even care about the numbers. We just want to see hustle from him, to go after a ball, to be aggressive, to shoot when he is within inches of the basket. The last two games I have seen improvement. I hope that continues.

[Phoenix219]

House and Tim Thomas for about the same amount as Banks and Pike, give or take a million bucks or two, would make this team so sick and give us most of the swagger and energy back... not to mention the 3 point shooting. DAMMIT!

[JustWinBaby]

House and Tim Thomas for about the same amount as Banks and Pike, give or take a million bucks or two, would make this team so sick and give us most of the swagger and energy back... not to mention the 3 point shooting. DAMMIT!

........and if we would not have given Boris the $45 mil Contract and waited to match we would be under the LT while having a much more tradeable Boris Contract. He would have been offerred no more than the MLE.

I never stayed awake at night dreaming about TT - I fired that out for effect. However he does fit our system like a glove. No one fits Dunleavy's system.

However I have been tempted hundreds of times to throw something at Boris's lame ass while watching the 60 inch big screen. I have not pulled the trigger up to this point.

If Amare goes down and Boris replaces him we become a 500 team at best.

Any support for Boris's lame ass is unbelievable. Even the Coach and Nash are trying to put a poker where the sun don't shine.

[JediSkywalker]

Actually Boris has played well the last two games. It remains to be seen if he continues to improve. If he does, we could have the 2005-06 Boris by the playoffs.

[ShelC]

If Amare goes down and Boris replaces him we become a 500 team at best.

Thats simply not true. Wasnt true in 2005-2006 and wasnt true when Amare missed those 3 games earlier in the year and Boris started and put up close to his his old numbers. We went 2-1, with the loss coming against the Hawks where Hill Barbs and Raja shot a combine 11-35 IINM.

[Miamisun]

House and Tim Thomas for about the same amount as Banks and Pike, give or take a million bucks or two, would make this team so sick and give us most of the swagger and energy back... not to mention the 3 point shooting. DAMMIT!


Had this been the way it went down, everyone would still be bitching about not having a proper backup for Nash.

[JustWinBaby]

If Amare goes down and Boris replaces him we become a 500 team at best.

Thats simply not true. Wasnt true in 2005-2006 and wasnt true when Amare missed those 3 games earlier in the year and Boris started and put up close to his his old numbers. We went 2-1, with the loss coming against the Hawks where Hill Barbs and Raja shot a combine 11-35 IINM.

BIG GAME BORIS - stepped right up in Atlanta

2 for 7 from the field

7 - points

4 Rebounds

36 Minutes.

I guess the ghost of Amare kept him from scoring. OH yeah if Barbs and Raja would have shot better he would have had more assists. Who stopped him from getting rebounds?

What other excuses can you come up with for Boris?

[ShelC]

Something told me you would throw those stats back at me. Cuz no one else had a bad game that night....

OH yeah if Barbs and Raja would have shot better he would have had more assists.

Thats usually how it works.

[misteradiant]

House and Tim Thomas for about the same amount as Banks and Pike, give or take a million bucks or two, would make this team so sick and give us most of the swagger and energy back... not to mention the 3 point shooting. DAMMIT!


all this angst over something that never happened. it's a damned shame.

[AlanS]

I think Boris saw this thread and said, "I need to get my merde together, or else I'll be french toast."

[Bogyo]

I think Boris saw this thread and said, "I need to get my merde together, or else I'll be french toast."

Now that was some funny merde.