Game Day: SUNS v. Heat...

[MTSunsFan]

My 1st game day thread of the season and on the "new & improved" board. Time to start a new winning streak!

Dis∙cuss

Preview:


Miami (5-15) at Phoenix (16-5)
Miami (5-15) at Phoenix (16-5)

Preview - Box Score - Recap

Game Info: 9:00 pm EST Mon Dec 10, 2007
TV: NBA, FSAZ Add to Calendar
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Steve Nash is currently enjoying arguably his most proficient stretch of setting up teammates in his career. But the point guard for the Phoenix Suns has also proven to be quite adept at scoring points against the Miami Heat.

Nash and the Suns -- looking to bounce back from a loss to the NBA's worst team -- play their first home game of the month Monday when they host the Heat.

Phoenix (16-5) is second in the league in scoring at 110.2 points per game and won four games on a recently completed five-game road trip. The Suns, though, had a five-game overall winning streak snapped after a 100-93 loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who entered the game just 2-15.

Nash, though, did what he could. He finished with 14 points and 15 assists, his fifth consecutive game with at least 15 assists.

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The only other player to accomplish that feat since the start of the 1991-92 season was Utah Jazz point guard John Stockton -- the NBA's all-time assist leader -- who had a five-game run from Feb. 27-March 6, 1992.

Nash did not seem very disappointed with the loss, citing the team's fatigue from the road trip as a primary reason for the loss.

"This one doesn't bother me as much as the others," he admitted. "You know, it's five of seven nights out East and guys are sick and banged up, so we just couldn't really get it going tonight. I can wash this one away a little easier than other nights."

Since joining the Suns in 2004, Nash has called his own number more -- and still been productive -- against the Heat. He hit six 3-pointers and scored 30 points -- more than double his career average of 14.1 points -- and had eight assists in a 106-101 victory at Miami on Nov. 9.

Nash is averaging 19.2 points and 12.3 assists in seven games versus Miami with the Suns, shooting 62.5 percent (20-for-32) from 3-point range and 56.8 percent overall. He also has an assist-to-turnover ratio of greater than 4-to-1 in helping Phoenix win six of those seven contests, including the last five.

The Suns are 6-2 at home, and have won four straight and eight of their last nine against the Heat at US Airways Center.

Miami (5-15) is one of the lowest-scoring teams in the NBA at 92.0 points per game, but guard Dwyane Wade has helped the Heat find a rhythm of late. The Heat have averaged 105.0 points their last four games, and the offensive surge finally paid dividends in a 100-94 victory Sunday over the Los Angeles Clippers that snapped a five-game losing streak.

Wade has averaged 28.8 points and 9.8 assists during the four-game stretch and is averaging 21.2 points overall after missing the first seven games recovering from offseason knee and shoulder surgeries. He had a season-high 35 points Sunday, making 13 of 23 shots and also recording 10 assists.

"We got stops towards the end of the game and executed offensively," Wade said. "The past three games we hadn't gotten any stops and offensively we died down, but tonight coach brought that up before the game and we went out and did it."

Shaquille O'Neal added eight points and eight rebounds in 33 minutes, but again sat out down the stretch as Riley used Alonzo Mourning the final 1:07. O'Neal, who was critical of teammates earlier in the week for not getting him the ball more, has averaged just 9.4 points his last five games and 14.6 for the season -- well off his career mark of 25.7 points per game.

"Zo is a little more mobile than Shaq right now," Riley said. "You could see that Shaq was laboring a little bit because of his thigh, so he was dragging his leg around doing the best job he could do. (Mourning's) a shot blocker, he's a big body and everybody knows he's coming. He gives our players confidence because he can get up there and he has such good timing."

Wade did not play in the first game between the teams.


Updated on Sunday, Dec 9, 2007 11:53 pm, EST

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Team Comparison
Team Record Standings PF PA Road/Home Streak L10
Miami 5-15 5th Southeast / 15th East 92.0 96.9 Road 3-9 Won 1 3-7
Phoenix 16-5 1st Pacific / 2nd West 110.2 104.4 Home 6-2 Lost 1 7-3

Miami Notes
Dec 9 G Chris Quinn made only the third start of his career in place of injured G Jason Williams, who is out with a sprained right ankle. ... G Dwyane Wade handed out a season-best 10 assists. ... Miami ended its second five-game losing streak. ... Rookie F-G Daequan Cook went scoreless on three shots in 9 1/2 minutes.


Phoenix Notes
Dec 9 Phoenix won its first 25 games against Minnesota and had won eight of their last 10. ... Phoenix had won its last five games, and its last four on the road. ... Minnesota was the first team this season to defeat Phoenix while shooting a lower percentage from the field. ... The Suns had been averaging 116.9 points over their last nine games, including a previous season low 94 at Houston before scoring 93 against the Timberwolves on Saturday. The Suns are 0-3 when being held under 100 points this season. Phoenix had scored more than 120 points in their previous three games. ... Amare Stoudamire has seven 40-10 games since 2005, the most of anybody in the league despite missing most of the 2005-2006 season. ... Three of Phoenix's five losses have come in the second game of a back-to-back set.

st 12-09-07 0:17 et

[darrkin]

We should run them outta Phoenix, esp with dogged effort against Minny.....We need a big win to get some momentum as we have a tough stretch of statement games coming up. Hopefully coach will try to use the bench some more, yeah right!

[Superbone]

I hope we don't still have an energy hangover from the road trip.

I predict the usual close game until the 3rd quarter and then BOOM goes the dynamite and we take them out.

[gladiator]

This will be a really interesting game to show just how far Amare's come along. I seem to remember him struggling against Shaq and Zo last time we played Miami (I think it was his first game back after the scope?) Looking for him to come out pretty strong today.

[MTSunsFan]

Amare ought to be able to run circles around old man Shaq (and Zo to a lesser degree). I look for Skinner to take some defensive pressure off of Amare too -- provided of course coach gives him some minutes...

[Superbone]

Amare ought to be able to run circles around old man Shaq (and Zo to a lesser degree). I look for Skinner to take some defensive pressure off of Amare too -- provided of course coach gives him some minutes...


Skinner will get at least 20 minutes tonight. Book it!

[SpecialSauce]

I hope we don't still have an energy hangover from the road trip.

I predict the usual close game until the 3rd quarter and then BOOM goes the dynamite and we take them out.

Oh God SB, I just watched that video again the other day. Thanks for reminding me how painful it was.

[Billyjoejimbob]

Skinner will get at least 20 minutes tonight. Book it!


I hope you're right. I still don't understand substituting Raja for Amare when we can't get a rebound.

[Squeege63]

I'm amazed how that horrible catchphrase that guy came up with has become ingrained in sports culture now. I've heard it in numerous places and people don't even reference what it comes from. just drop 'boom goes the dynamite.' It always gets a bit of a chuckle from me.

[Superbone]

Oh God SB, I just watched that video again the other day. Thanks for reminding me how painful it was.

Ha ha. Yeah, those are some of the most painful minutes of video in the history of video.

[scosuns]

Lets just get back on the winning track tonight and then its all good.:wink:

But I hope D'antoni gives Skinner some decent minutes.

[triplethreat06]

I feel like this is one of the few times we've played the Heat with Wade in the lineup. Last time I remember him playing was when he pulled off that block/halfcourt shot to end the quarter.

[sunsfan31]

Well Shaq and D Wade both hosted parties at clubs here last night, so let's hope they're a little worn out as well!

[scosuns]

I just hope the Suns have regained their composure. I know they were tired, and I think D'antoni could have given more minutes to certain players. I mean, that fourth quarter was just ugly. But everyone has those types of games.

[DrSublime]

Well Shaq and D Wade both hosted parties at clubs here last night, so let's hope they're a little worn out as well!

lol thats so classic Shaq...

didnt know Wade was like that though.

[Catharsis]

I mean this with all sincerity: ROLL BLOCK SHAQ'S KNEES AND MAKE THAT MOTHER FUCKER PAY FOR HIS BULLY TACTICS OF BASKETBALL! He's a fat ass who at least in his prime could move. Now he just drives over people, clears with his arms and fouls EVERYTIME he makes a play. The NBA needs to stand up and stop celebrating his career and tell the refs to call the fouls.

[lazyboy62]

Just got here, anyone know if it is being shown on the internet anywhere? Down by 10 52-42 in the second. Lotta game left to play.

[BORISDIAW4MVP]

Brian Skinner For Mvp!

[AlanS]

Whew! After being down by 14 pts (or was it 16), Suns came roaring back, keyed by a great defensive push. Marion seemed to get it going with a steal and some good double-teaming, and then it all went up two or three gears when Skinner enetered the game.

Despite two fouls on Stat, D'Antoni left him in, and went with the line-up of Skinner, Stat, Shawn, Bell, and Steve. That line-up has been rebounding well both offensively and defensively, and doing a good job challenging a good job of challenging the Heat's penetration into the lane.

This is all happened in the 2nd qtr. In the 1st qtr, the Suns didn't defend worth two cents. It was literally some of the worst defense I've seen on NBA League Pass this season.

Sigh... if only the Suns played defense for 48 minutes, the way they played defense in that 2nd qtr. It would be awesome.

[AlanS]

This is going to a very very tough game to win. Nash is having a horrible shooting night, he's just 1/7. The rest of the team is sgooting 56%. The Suns will have to win with defense... can they do it?

[AmareIsGod]

If we win this game, Skinner should get the game ball.

Godammit coach! If tonight isn't proof enough for you to play Skinner more, than I don't know what the fuck is. I was screaming at the TV everytime Miami would go on a run because coach didn't put Skinner out there. The dude plays with soo much energy and heart. Hopefully it rubs off on the rest of the *******s out there.

Go Suns. Skinner is quickly becoming one of my favorite players.

[AlanS]

Suns are going with a line-up of Skinner, Hill, Diaw, Bell and Barbosa. They got NOTHING going offensively.

LB has made a number of bad plays... bad fouls, bad shots, a bad pass.

After making it a tie game at 80, Suns are down by 9. And now Stat has 4 fouls. It's the end of the 3rd. LB is 2/13 from the field, to go along with aSteve being 1/7.

EDIT: Skinner has played a lot of minutes. I wonder how much he'll have in the tank in the 4t qtr?

[AmareIsGod]

Way to go coach. I swear. His patterns are frustrating the SHIT out of me.

A) Don't play Diaw. The guy needs to get his shit together and give some effort or stay on the FUCKING bench.

B) Play AMARE AND SKINNER TOGETHER. We're playing a big team and coach goes with Diaw + Skinner or Amare + Diaw. Amare + Skinner together this game has allowed us to cut Miami's lead by playing interior defense.

I defend Coach D way to much. I've literally screamed at the TV set on countless occasions tonight. Come on *******.

[JediSkywalker]

The Suns shooting has been horrible. They tied the game at 80, then allowed Miami to score 9 points while the Suns scored zip. It's pathetic. STAT even picked up his 4th foul in the last one minute of the 3rd Q. First they lost to the Wolves; now to the Heat- the two teams with the worst record in the NBA.

Boris should get the last spot on the bench, behind the rookies. He does nothing. Dantoni even brought STAT back with just over 2 minutes left, I assume because Diaw was a total waste. Unfortunately Amare picked up his 4th foul. The Suns are in DEEP trouble, with games against Utah, Dallas, SA and NOH coming up.

[DrSublime]

why is Nash's shot so not falling lately

[JediSkywalker]

Marion and Skinner have kept the Suns in the game; also Amare to some extent. I don't know if Nash's injuries have caught up with him. He can't shoot the ball anymore.

[Spanky]

Gah, looking like my prediction could be ugly. ;)

[JediSkywalker]

This is going to a very very tough game to win. Nash is having a horrible shooting night, he's just 1/7. The rest of the team is sgooting 56%. The Suns will have to win with defense... can they do it?

Suns have not played defense all evening. I don't see them doing it now. Marion and Skinner have played well. I don't recognize this Heat team at all. Haven't they been the doormat this season until tonight?

[BORISDIAW4MVP]

We let them make us be their doormat with Mike D's reluctance to put in Skinner early on in the first when Shaq was tearing us a new one down low. He finally brings Skinner in and Brian has been very effective tonight. However, we let them get into their comfort zone early on, and they have dictated the pace of play. We let guys like Quinn and Dorrell Wright get confident and we stayed small leaving guys like Ricky Davis open for 3. If you remember back in :07 Seconds or Less, Raja said that teams saw us as a punkable team, and tonight, we have looked like it. Lackluster effort on D from Amare is really starting to annoy me.

[BORISDIAW4MVP]

Too little, too late.

[bobster]

i am just not sold on this team as a championship contender.

you can play with a small lineup if you play with energy, play good defense and don't get manhandled on the boards, but they just haven't done any of those things consistantly.

[triplethreat06]

Wade always kills us

[AmareIsGod]

Game over. Good grief. If the Suns, outside of Skinner and the Matrix tonight, want to let teams treat us like their little bitch, then bravo. They deserve to lose. What an embarassment. First the worst team in the West/NBA, then the worst team in the East. From impressive during the first 4 of the roadtrip to a laughingstock. I wanted to punch the damn TV tonight so many times. If everyone wants to play like goddamn Boris Diaw and act like they don't have a pair of nuts, play the guys on the bench who will at least give a damn and some effort. Show the starters they can't just play the way they are playing.

I'm sick of all these clowns launching 3's all night when they aren't falling. Grow a pair and take it to the rim. Draw a foul. Get your ass in the paint. DO SOMETHING. I'm pissed. I'm out. Goodnight. Good riddance.

[Spanky]

i am just not sold on this team as a championship contender.

I'm not sold on any "championship contender" until they actually win a championship. I can't put a finger on what's wrong, except for the outside shooting. It seems a lot less timely this year, so far.

[triplethreat06]

ok take a look at the box score points...which one doesn't belong???

[triplethreat06]

ugh...and barbosa's fg% is just disgusting

[Spanky]

I'm sick of all these clowns launching 3's all night when they aren't falling. Grow a pair and take it to the rim. Draw a foul. Get your ass in the paint. DO SOMETHING. I'm pissed. I'm out. Goodnight. Good riddance.

LOL.. I think I was channeling the same thoughts tonight.

[DrSublime]

look at the rebounding diffrence

thats why they lost tonight

[bobster]

the suns are letting some bad teams score a lot of points -

NYK - 104
Ind - 117
Tor - 123
Wash - 107
Minn - 100
Mia - 117

they've managed to go 4-2 in these games, but they've been putting themselves in the position where they really have to click on all cylinders to beat BAD teams
against minnesota and tonight they didn't shoot the ball well and lost to two of the worst teams in the league.

[Spanky]

the suns are letting some bad teams score a lot of points -

NYK - 104
Ind - 117
Tor - 123
Wash - 107
Minn - 100
Mia - 117

they've managed to go 4-2 in these games, but they've been putting themselves in the position where they really have to click on all cylinders to beat BAD teams
against minnesota and tonight they didn't shoot the ball well and lost to two of the worst teams in the league.

You are so right. It's troubling to see bad teams take em to school. It's not a sign of a champion to let shit teams use you as charmin (at home no less). Literally.

[Nashfan]

In my opinion, lack of rebounding is killing us. I think it ended up being 46 to 29!! We looked like we didn't give a damn when we first came out and then picked it up when Skinner came in and then when he went out we lost that energy again. I'm really tired of Diaw's lack of interest and play. Barbosa and Nash must be injured to shoot this badly. Too bad the toughest part of the schedule is coming this week. We will get killed by all the teams we are going to play this week if we come out half assed. I would have at least tried Strawberry or Banks at least a few minutes to spell Raja and Marion instead of Diaw. He needs his butt glued to the bench for a few games to try to light a fire under him. I'm afraid it would probably have the opposite effect with him though. He is the word passive in the dictionary. Sorry for the rant, just really upset with the way the last two games have gone.

[Mori_Chu]

All I can say is, that was a crappy game, but that Nash over the shoulder assist to Hill for 3 in the corner was absolutely amazing. Almost made up for the lackluster rest of the game. Suns just don't have any energy out there, almost as if the same guys are being asked to do too much night after night. Hmm...

[triplethreat06]

look at the rebounding diffrence

thats why they lost tonight

True, even though we get outrebounded pretty much all the time, the gap is much closer in wins and much much much farther apart in losses. I think in Minnesota it was like -20 something.

Did we really shoot 33 three-pointers? Looks like everyone had a decent shooting night except Nash and Barbosa. Turnovers were low. Diaw was just non-existent but why would we expect anything else from him?

[Nashfan]

All I can say is, that was a crappy game, but that Nash over the shoulder assist to Hill for 3 in the corner was absolutely amazing. Almost made up for the lackluster rest of the game. Suns just don't have any energy out there, almost as if the same guys are being asked to do too much night after night. Hmm...

I agree, this is very true. We need to use our bench with some of the starters to give some guys some rest. Coach is killing our starters and it is starting to catch up, especially in the last two games.

[Spanky]

Diaw was just non-existent but why would we expect anything else from him?

Well, because he gets paid to do something? I know what you mean, though.

[triplethreat06]

Who's for benching Diaw and playing Straw??

I'd trade height for heart ANY DAY.

[Nashfan]

Who's for benching Diaw and playing Straw??

I'd trade height for heart ANY DAY.

I am for benching Diaw and playing Strawberry. At least he will give us 100% hustle and heart.

[Spanky]

I still think we go 4-1 in this stretch. My prediction of who we lose to was obviously wrong. :)

[triplethreat06]

I'm wondering where MR and swing are at...they might have lapsed into a coma after what they saw tonight

[desertcoast]

The Nash over shoulder pass was a bright spot in a horrific game.
I'm glad I watched for that alone ( replayed it no less than 6 times...)

Diaw: My God..what do we do with this guy?

Whatever shrink we used to pull JJ's head out of his ass when he was in his funk early in his tenure here...we need to get the same guy in here and fix Diaw. This is a roster addition that has gone horribly wrong...

Our philosophy/gameplan/practice schedule/mindset is so locked on outshooting/building cushions/and running other teams out of gas...we then have no backup plan when our shooters go cold. We won't go inside and attack the rim...because we DON'T DO IT ENOUGH TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH IT.....
( and Barbosa isn't smart enough to know when NOT to do it...:-? )

Sometimes we do indeed look like our worst critic's descriptions...a one trick pony.

This might be a long December, kids...

[lazyboy62]

Not sure how to re-act to this. Something is missing and I am not sure what. I think that it comes down to rotation. Coach D isn't seeming to make much sense of this. He has one of the deepest teams in the league, but they just don't seem to mesh well. If you put one in then the role isn't defined and they seem to not know what they need to do. I havn't quite given up on Doris, but I don't think that they have given him an exact role. Some nights they tell him to be a passer, some a scorer, the kid is confused. give him one role and I think that he'll be ok. I think that the same is true with Barb's.

Coach D needs to realize that teams are trying to match up with him and not vice versa. Maybe DJ or even Banks could have a better role if it was defined. Right now I think players are just thrust in and told to bring energy and play off the ball. Coach D has said in the past that Nash runs the team and is in charge on the court. But what happens when that leadership is on the bench? Who step's up and what is their role? I don't think that has been defined yet.

I belive that this is the missing peice. The roles are not yet defined and players are still trying to make the best of their time with no clear direction. With direciton the bench would be un-stoppable. Boris, your out there to score. High post and drive in, kick it out to a wing if your covered. LB drive the lane and dish. Or LB set a high pick and roll for an open three.

I love Coach D's approach to fast and easy but when it comes to sub's I think that he is lacking in direction. Sorry for the rant, just one lazyboy's take on the situation.

[y2jjedipimp]

glad i had to work late and missed this one...

Skinner, you are amazing.

Matrix, once again you are making me rethink the whole Matrix instead of Amare trade scenario. You have been just short of amazing despite that crappy jumper and the fact that you prolly lead the league in missed layups...you are a gamer!

Babs, youre too good to stay in this funk for this long keep shooting

Diaw, i have actually thought about a Malik Rose for your dead ass trade. I'm trying to be patient with you but there isn't any reason DJ shouldnt be getting your mins. Have some pride. You look like a dummy out there.

end of rant...Go Suns!

[JediSkywalker]

All I can say is, that was a crappy game, but that Nash over the shoulder assist to Hill for 3 in the corner was absolutely amazing. Almost made up for the lackluster rest of the game. Suns just don't have any energy out there, almost as if the same guys are being asked to do too much night after night. Hmm...


That was an unbelievable play! It was like "this is why I love watching the Suns play". I wish I had taped the game. I hope Nash and Hill can recreate that play at another time, but I doubt they will. It was pure instinct and it was like magic.

I am wondering if the Suns are just too tired right now? A rotation of 7 or 8 and 30+ minutes every night will do that to anyone. Dantoni's approach 'We will just outscore the other team' is laughable. He never focused on defense, so how could this team play it, particularly when they are overworked and lacking in energy? When the regs are struggling, coach D needs to stop trying to get through a wall and try going around it by playing the bench. Why is a strong defender like Strawberry sitting on the bench? Why is Banks not getting more minutes? They may not play great but at least they could provide some rest to the tired starters. That could be valuable even if the Suns lose the game (and they are losing games while the starters are playing against the worst teams in the league).

Diaw needs to be written off at this point. It is futile to even give him a chance. He shows up in one out of five games. I say play Skinner, Banks, Straw. Let Diaw, Marks, Pike be the bench warmers. I also hope Alando Tucker can return from the D league. Even he will play better than Diaw.

The Suns kept coming back at the end but they had already given so much confidence to the Heat that Miami kept making plays. They should not have been allowed to score at will in the first Q. Heck, they even made the FT's- even Shaq did! It was an evening of frustration. The only saving grace was that I did not go to the game. At home I was able to walk away from the TV for a few minutes when things became unbearable, which was 90 percent of the time.

[triplethreat06]

From the beginning of the season it was quite obvious that the motto of this coaching staff and management is "our way or the highway"

"We may have lost Kurt, but we're much faster now!"

One thing I absolutely loved about last year was when we would get a defensive stop, usually it was Kurt denying the paint, and we'd get an outlet pass to a streaking Barbosa or Marion. Think about the mindset of this team when we disrupt the other team's offense...it's RUN RUN RUN. If only we ditched the entire scorers mentality for some time and focused on our defense, we would create so many more opportunities to score. Nothing boosts the morale of a team quite like a key defensive stop, and I haven't seen that at all this year.

But we're at the mercy of this system, so saddle up and get ready for many more nights like this and excuses thrown our way about being tired, missing shots, yada yada yada. The only way to remedy this is a coaching change, or a change of mindset, and I'm not betting on the latter.

[JediSkywalker]

Who's for benching Diaw and playing Straw??

I'd trade height for heart ANY DAY.

I am all for it- heart over height and experience.

[Suns_Dave]

We pulled out a close win against this team a month ago when our superstar (Nash) outplayed their superstar (Shaq) down the stretch. This time, the roles were reversed as Wade got the better of Nash several times down the stretch.

[INFORMER]

Boris Diaw and Marcus Banks for Malik Rose (1 YR remaining) and Fred Jones (exp.)?

[JediSkywalker]

We let them make us be their doormat with Mike D's reluctance to put in Skinner early on in the first when Shaq was tearing us a new one down low. He finally brings Skinner in and Brian has been very effective tonight. However, we let them get into their comfort zone early on, and they have dictated the pace of play. We let guys like Quinn and Dorrell Wright get confident and we stayed small leaving guys like Ricky Davis open for 3. If you remember back in :07 Seconds or Less, Raja said that teams saw us as a punkable team, and tonight, we have looked like it. Lackluster effort on D from Amare is really starting to annoy me.

Dantoni is so bull headed that he cannot make any adjustments to his lineup, unless a player is injured. I am very impressed with Skinner. I think Dantoni is too, but he just cannot get out of his box.

In retrospect, the Suns erred in not going for Minnesota's offer - STAT for Garnett. I don't mean Amare is playing horrible. He has great talent, but what the Suns really need is a strong defense. Marion is actually very valuable to the Suns. He is one of the few Suns that can actually play defense. He is playing with more heart too, more consistently.

[JustWinBaby]

Two things from this game really really bother me.

1. Diaw
2. Barbosa

First Boris - He is lost and shows no effort. I said we should not have signed him to that $45 contract and unfortunately it appears I was correct. His contract is one of the worst in the league. However the idea that he is immovable due to being a BYC player is not correct. As per the below information from the CBA he can be moved with the Traded player exception we received from Seattle in the Thomas trade. The question is more who in the hell would want him rather than being held hostage by the BYC rule.

{Teams may have even more flexibility if one or both have a Traded Player exception (see question number 69) or Disabled Player exception (see question number 19). This happens when the team with the BYC player is receiving multiple players in trade. For example, if Washington has a player with a $10 million salary and a $5 million BYC amount, and they have a Disabled Player exception for $5 million, then they can accept two $5 million players in trade for their player. One of the incoming players fits within the $5 million Disabled Player exception; the other fits within the $6.35 million margin created by the Traded Player exception.}

A Boris for Ridnour and Collison would work. There are plenty of other possibilities, I would think.

Barbosa - he has shown flashes of brilliance but continues to dissappoint when the game slows down and he can't run freely around the floor, like a chicken with its head cut off. He makes bad decisions time after time and takes stupid shots while not getting anyone else involved. He appears to be playing a game of horse against himself when Nash is on the bench. If you think I am wrong you are sadly mistaken. This game tonight was more like a playoff game and LB was over matched just like he has been in every playoff series to date except for a few good games against the Lakers. He was a late first round pick for a reason. For the right player in return I would move him as well. I know all of you LB lovers think I am stupid, you all were probably on the Boris Bandwaggon as well. You probably thought we got away cheap by only giving him $45 Mil, you were and are wrong in Barbosa case.

Banks - Why in the world is he on such a short leash and LB can fumble bumlbe his way around while shooting bricks and making no impact. For that matter why doesn't DJ even get a look.

OK that is off my chest

The real things I think we need to do and can do are - since I think ever trading Boris is pie in the sky.

1. Call PJ Brown and get him signed - now!
2. Insert Skinner as the first big off the bench and start him when the other team has an impact big man. Against these teams have either Skinner or PJ on the Floor at all times.
3. Plant Diaw firmly on the bench or send him to France on a sabatical. I can't even watch him anymore. I get pissed virtually every time he touches the ball and it should be someone that gives a shit.
4. Give either Banks or DJ a chance to run the team rather than LB.

This team needs another big man in a big way. We all know it and I would hope the FO knows it as well. We would be better defensively and get more rebounds while protecting Amare from foul trouble. This is so obvious it is stupid.

Kerr - get off your ass and earn your pay check.

[bobster]

the suns have pretty much painted themselves into a corner with diaw. they only have three players who can begin to guard biog men - skinner, amare, and diaw.

and with amare's frequent foul problems diaw's post defense [which he does well] gets him playing time. but i get the feeling that sitting boris is the only way to light a fire under his ass.

[Miamisun]

I watched the game here at home in Miami listening to the local announcers and they were just happy to see the Heat finally playing up to their expectations. I think the Heat painted into a corner and came out strong where as the Suns are still building towards something great. Yes it was dissapointing to see but crazy respect from the Heat because we were down by 11 with 2 mins left and they still felt the Suns were going to come back and win. Heat needed this one and it was nice to see my 2nd favorite team win, but I hated that it was at the expense of my lifelong favorite Suns.

[JediSkywalker]

the suns have pretty much painted themselves into a corner with diaw. they only have three players who can begin to guard biog men - skinner, amare, and diaw.

and with amare's frequent foul problems diaw's post defense [which he does well] gets him playing time. but i get the feeling that sitting boris is the only way to light a fire under his ass.

Unfortunately that fire lasts only a short time (one game).

I like the idea of having Amare and Skinner on the floor at the same time, esp. against teams like Utah, SA.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Skinner Stat Marion Hill Nash should be our starting five..Forget shooting all of those 3's give the ball to our best scorer (Stat) and let him go to work...This will improve our team a lot

[JediSkywalker]

Two things from this game really really bother me.

1. Diaw
2. Barbosa

First Boris - He is lost and shows no effort. I said we should not have signed him to that $45 contract and unfortunately it appears I was correct. His contract is one of the worst in the league. However the idea that he is immovable due to being a BYC player is not correct. As per the below information from the CBA he can be moved with the Traded player exception we received from Seattle in the Thomas trade. The question is more who in the hell would want him rather than being held hostage by the BYC rule.

{Teams may have even more flexibility if one or both have a Traded Player exception (see question number 69) or Disabled Player exception (see question number 19). This happens when the team with the BYC player is receiving multiple players in trade. For example, if Washington has a player with a $10 million salary and a $5 million BYC amount, and they have a Disabled Player exception for $5 million, then they can accept two $5 million players in trade for their player. One of the incoming players fits within the $5 million Disabled Player exception; the other fits within the $6.35 million margin created by the Traded Player exception.}

A Boris for Ridnour and Collison would work. There are plenty of other possibilities, I would think.

Barbosa - he has shown flashes of brilliance but continues to dissappoint when the game slows down and he can't run freely around the floor, like a chicken with its head cut off. He makes bad decisions time after time and takes stupid shots while not getting anyone else involved. He appears to be playing a game of horse against himself when Nash is on the bench. If you think I am wrong you are sadly mistaken. This game tonight was more like a playoff game and LB was over matched just like he has been in every playoff series to date except for a few good games against the Lakers. He was a late first round pick for a reason. For the right player in return I would move him as well. I know all of you LB lovers think I am stupid, you all were probably on the Boris Bandwaggon as well. You probably thought we got away cheap by only giving him $45 Mil, you were and are wrong in Barbosa case.

Banks - Why in the world is he on such a short leash and LB can fumble bumlbe his way around while shooting bricks and making no impact. For that matter why doesn't DJ even get a look.

OK that is off my chest

The real things I think we need to do and can do are - since I think ever trading Boris is pie in the sky.

1. Call PJ Brown and get him signed - now!
2. Insert Skinner as the first big off the bench and start him when the other team has an impact big man. Against these teams have either Skinner or PJ on the Floor at all times.
3. Plant Diaw firmly on the bench or send him to France on a sabatical. I can't even watch him anymore. I get pissed virtually every time he touches the ball and it should be someone that gives a shit.
4. Give either Banks or DJ a chance to run the team rather than LB.

This team needs another big man in a big way. We all know it and I would hope the FO knows it as well. We would be better defensively and get more rebounds while protecting Amare from foul trouble. This is so obvious it is stupid.

Kerr - get off your ass and earn your pay check.

I agree about both- Diaw and Barbs. BTW LB's contract is not for 45 mil; it is somewhere in the 30 mils and last season he was considered a steal at that price. This season has been another story though. His weaknesses have been exposed and other teams are able to take advantage of those.

Yes, the Suns need another big man, but I don't think PJ is the answer. I am sure he is not in game shape and he could slow the Suns down. It needs to be an active player. At this point I am even open to giving away Atlanta's 1st R pick. They are winning and the Suns might be picking around #20, which is not good. Sarver is likely to sell that pick. I would rather the Suns use it to get immediate help this season. However, trading Boris, even with the Atl pick will be tough. At this point it may be even easier to trade Banks.

[ShelC]

Did that lineup play well tonight? It would be a drastic change and would require quite an overhaul offensively, but would help us in the playoffs.

[JustWinBaby]

{I agree about both- Diaw and Barbs. BTW LB's contract is not for 45 mil; it is somewhere in the 30 mil range and last season he was considered a steal at that price. This season has been another story though. His weaknesses have been exposed and other teams are able to take advantage of those.}

Sorry I may have made it appear that LB was given a $45 mil deal but am aware that it was far less.

Actually I was for signing Boris to the exact same deal or let him try for retricted Free agency. My bet is we could have got him for less than we signed LB for.

It is fun to watch the Brazilian Blur when the floor is open and he can do his thing. However I would much prefer someone like the Argentian Destroyer that the Spurs have in Ginobili, who can play defense, make the three and hitch clutch shot after clutch shot when it matters most. I know that is not possible but all we need is a better decision maker. LB quite frankly is a horrible decisin maker and has been, except for a few flashes. Surely he thrills and scores in bunches, but he is not and never will be one you can count on in big time situations. He will either throw it away or toss up an absolute brick.

Diaw on the other hand - just sucks

[Uncle_Gene]

Mike D'Antoni,

if you have to play a "traditional" lineup..............THEN DO SO !!

Skinner, Amare, and Marion up front is good with Bell and Nash. Suns need another backup center that can rebound. They've been getting crushed on the boards.

[SpecialSauce]

JWB Post of the Season by far. 100% right on all counts. Boris was nowhere to be found tonight. LB was shit as usual.

We need to trade LB while his value his high. He is just not fit for this team. This system is DEPENDENT on smart play, and LB has zero IQ, and I've said it from day one. He has all the athletic gifts, but no brain. Too bad you can't combine Diaw and LB into one max player, because that would be Magic Johnson.

This team is just not right. There aren't enough shooters, and even our "shooters" are too streaky. We need some energy, some flare. Our players are too damn boring and soft. We need some killer instinct, that's why I loved Q. Q always went for the throat. So I think we need to package LB and Boris and do something. It's far enough into the season to understand that it just ain't right. We're too slow, not enough shooting, not big enough. We have to improve in at least one of those categories to be any good.

[desertcoast]

but i get the feeling that sitting boris is the only way to light a fire under his ass

short of dangling a pastry and a fat chick somewhere near the basket? :-|

[Mori_Chu]

I wish we would get the ball to two guys more: Amare and Raja. It seems like we forget to get them enough shots. Every time either one of them shoots it, I expect it to go in.

I haven't totally given up on Diaw the way some of you seem to have done. He is still talented. I honestly think we just are not using / motivating him correctly, and that perhaps he is still recovering from nagging injuries.

Nash also still doesn't look right. His shooting is just awful lately. When Nash can't hit his shots, you know something is up with his health. It makes me sad to watch him out there shooting 1-for-9 or whatever he was.

As much trouble as we're having defending big men, I really think our biggest problem is that we need another shooter. Often we just don't have enough guys on the court who can hit an open shot. This is especially true now that Marion has forgotten how to ever hit a jumpshot (did you see his airball three? Give me a break!). I agree that Q would be fun to have back in a Suns uni.

[darrkin]

JWB Post of the Season by far. 100% right on all counts. Boris was nowhere to be found tonight. LB was shit as usual.

We need to trade LB while his value his high. He is just not fit for this team. This system is DEPENDENT on smart play, and LB has zero IQ, and I've said it from day one. He has all the athletic gifts, but no brain. Too bad you can't combine Diaw and LB into one max player, because that would be Magic Johnson.

This team is just not right. There aren't enough shooters, and even our "shooters" are too streaky. We need some energy, some flare. Our players are too damn boring and soft. We need some killer instinct, that's why I loved Q. Q always went for the throat. So I think we need to package LB and Boris and do something. It's far enough into the season to understand that it just ain't right. We're too slow, not enough shooting, not big enough. We have to improve in at least one of those categories to be any good.


YUP..hate to say i agree but we may be in trouble...hopefully we play better against the better teams coming up, but not looking good. We seem to be missing some young atheletic people and a shooter or two. Guess never doing anything in draft last few years is catching us...Iggy or Deng or Brandon Roy or Sergio sure would look good now...hmm, this next week will be real interesting. Also Amar seems to missing his pop, damn those knees

[fixxxer]

1. I dunno, calling for Barbosa's head after a bad shooting night seems a little reactionary to me. He is what he is... an "off the bench" energy scorer, and about the best in the league. Sure, his decision making is questionable at times, but at his price, he's a huge bargain. He's won way more games for us than he's lost.

2. Marion/Amare/Skinner NEED to see time at 3/4/5 when teams like Miami and Minnesota are running amok on us. We don't need to suddenly morph into San Antonio or Houston. Just give the big lineup some extended burn and stem the tide! Which brings us to...

3. Diaw! Right now, his salary has become more distressing to me than Banks', the knowledge just made me throw up in my mouth. For all practical purposes, Diaw is our first big man off the bench. And as someone who sees all his time at the 4/5 he simply has to rebound.

I don't even care about the scoring. Pass up every layup and dunk in favour of a tougher shot for someone else for all I care. Am in a state of uneasy and semi-sickened acceptance about this. Argh, just rebound the ****ing ball.

[Uncle_Gene]

Mike D'Antoni has to play a traditional lineup. The jig is up. Teams know how to attack "smallball" now.

[SpecialSauce]

I'm not calling for Barbosas head after a bad shooting night. I'm calling for his head because he is ONLY of benefit to us when he's on fire. Otherwise, he's a total disaster. RARELY does he make the right decision, and he just CAN NOT play the point, and CAN NOT guard the 2. We might as well have Eddie House.

[SpecialSauce]

One question I forgot to ask: Anybody know why Amare was benched for the last 3-4 minutes of the game?

[fixxxer]

Agreed that he's is a poor decision maker who'll never be capable of handling the point, and see how he's of very little value when he's shooting poorly. However, I maintain that overall, you're underestimating Barbosa's net worth to the Suns.

Also, I'm of the opinion that he helps us more during his "on" state than he hurts us when he's "off". Today's game against the Heat was an exception though.

[SpecialSauce]

Agreed that he's is a poor decision maker who'll never be capable of handling the point, and see how he's of very little value when he's shooting poorly. However, I maintain that overall, you're underestimating Barbosa's net worth to the Suns.

Also, I'm of the opinion that he helps us more during his "on" state than he hurts us when he's "off". Today's game against the Heat was an exception though.


I have to disagree with you. He hurts us in key games, which are the most important. I could care less if he goes off for 80 against the Clippers, it's how terrible he is against the Spurs and other SMART teams that kills us.

[sunsdotcom]

Mike D'Antoni has to play a traditional lineup. The jig is up. Teams know how to attack "smallball" now.

and how often does this team score within 7 seconds or less nowadays?

[sunsdotcom]

Mike D'Antoni,

if you have to play a "traditional" lineup..............THEN DO SO !!


if we go to a "traditional" lineup, then it's bye bye to shawn marion.

[fixxxer]

if we go to a "traditional" lineup, then it's bye bye to shawn marion.Oh, agreed. The small lineup is still our biggest strength, and abandoning it abjectly would result in a weaker squad overall. And it's a moot point eitherway since D'Antoni would never do away with smallball.

However, I do feel that D'Antoni has done a poor job in terms of recognizing situations (stretches, if you will) in which the 'big lineup' would be a useful defensive unit while not completely sacrificing our heretic run/gun roots.

[SwingMan]

What a fucked Monday.

Losing to the two worst teams in the fucking league on consecutive game nights?????

Fuck the news thread - I ain't into rehashing still-warm hogshit.....

[gladiator]

What a fucked Monday.

Losing to the two worst teams in the fucking league on consecutive game nights?????

Fuck the news thread - I ain't into rehashing still-warm hogshit.....


I hear ya Swing but there's some interesting stuff in here, especially the post-game meeting. Would love to have been a fly on that wall

Suns stumble vs. lowly Heat
Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 10, 2007 11:33 PM

The Suns showed that losing to the NBA's worst team Saturday was not the worst indignity they could suffer.

That happened at US Airways Center on Monday night, when the Suns lost 117-113 to the Miami Heat, the Eastern Conference's worst team.

The Heat should have tired easily against the Suns' up-tempo style after playing six road games in a nine-day span.

Entering Saturday's game, the Suns were 16-4 and had plenty to feel good about. Now they must regroup from losses to the Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves before entering perhaps their toughest stretch of games this season.

The Heat and Timberwolves had been struggling offensively, but they had some of their best offensive performances of the season against the Suns, whether it was Minnesota's 87 points in Saturday's first three quarters or Miami posting a season-best 117 points.

The Heat entered the game averaging 92 points a game this season. Miami made 24 of its first 31 shots and shot 59 percent.

Monday night's loss prompted a long postgame staff meeting that included coach Mike D'Antoni, General Manager Steve Kerr and Managing Partner Robert Sarver.

"Our defense isn't very good," Suns guard Raja Bell said. "We'll have to be a better defensive team when we play better teams or they'll run all over us."

The Suns did not lead after the game's first six minutes and went the final seven minutes of the first quarter with only two defensive stops. Miami posted a season high in scoring for a quarter by taking a 40-29 lead and led by as much as 14, as guard Dwyane Wade turned over his hot hand to a series of unexpectedly strong shooters in Chris Quinn, Dorell Wright and Udonis Haslem.

The Suns' two best rallies of the game came with the insertion of reserve big man Brian Skinner, who made all six of his shots and had 13 points and five rebounds in 20 minutes.

Though the offense played well at times, the Suns' defensive effort already had fed Miami's confidence.

"When they are scoring all these points, it puts so much pressure on the offense," D'Antoni said. "Then I thought we looked jittery. Although we had some nice moments, a 17-point third quarter is just a little bit out of sync."

That came after Phoenix had struggled through a 13-point fourth quarter Saturday.

On Monday night, the Suns found offense down the stretch but already had scored five points in a nine-minute span that began when Nash left with 2:37 to go in the third.

Nash struggled, too, joining Leandro Barbosa's 4-for-17 shooting night by going 4 for 13 from the field, and that was only after making two desperation three-pointers late in the game.

Wade, who made his first seven shots, scored a game-high 31 points, including 10 in the final 3:56.

But with another silent night from Boris Diaw, the Suns did not recover from their start against a Heat team that had lost Sunday to the Clippers.

"There wasn't a sense of urgency," Nash said. "I don't know if all five guys were playing with the same urgency."

"You play your hardest, you try to win, you don't do it, you move on. So many things can happen in a season. Then so many things can happen in the playoffs irrespective of what happens in the season.

"You just have to keep moving forward and not worry what's behind you."

[SwingMan]

Be that as it may, let someone else post the news thread this morning if they wish - If the Suns don't give a fuck, why should I?

[gladiator]

No offence meant Swing (and hopefully none taken) I couldn't be bothered starting a new thread over it either but the idea of a post-game meeting interested me a bit - I guess optimistically I hope that the last couple fo resutls might be a bit of a rocket for the organisation and some of the teams needs will be addressed by the front office.
The last couple of games I've actually been kinda happy to have no way of watching the games ... just check the box score and move along!

[SwingMan]

Oh hell, I apologize, gladiator. It ain't you.

Got a bad crank on - Monday, work etc. - and the one thing that could've salvaged the day was last night's game, played like they actually gave a shit.

More assists than boards? On rest? Lying down against the worst the east has to offer?

Well, fuck you too, Suns. MR's Johnny Cash right back atcha.....

[AlanS]

My takes on the game:

[1] This was a maddening game, in that it was marked by stretches where the Suns either could not defend, or could not score. In the 1st qtr and part of the 2nd, the Suns could not get ANY stops. It was ridiculous.

Even with all of that, the Suns did outscore the Heat over the last 3 qtrs. Miami's 40 pt 1st qtr, which the Suns were defenseless to stop, is what did them in. Which underscores that the Suns need to look to play defense from the start, not when things get to a point where recovery is impossible.

[2] Things turned around when Shawn started showing some hustle and energy on defense in the 2nd qtr. Then Skinner came in, and the defense got even better. Here's the +/- breakdown:
Skinner +15
Nash +7
Shawn +5
Stat -3
Bell -4
Diaw -7
Barbosa -15
Hill -18

[3] Marion's +/- is impressive, in that he was on the floor a lot (41 minutes) but still had a positive +/_, even though the Suns struggled mightily when Steve or Skinner were noton the floor. Shawn's stat line (19 pts, 6 rebs, 4 assts, 4 blks, 4 steals) shows how active he was.

It would have been nice to see the Suns get a win, just to reward Skinner and Shawn for their hustle and energy. But it was not meant to be.

[4] There were really 2 stories to this game: the horrible defense at the start of the game; and the poor offense at various stretches. Nash was just 4/13. 4/13!!!! It is amazing the Suns even had a chance with that poor shooting. And the thing is, he missed a lot of shots that were make-able for him... if he makes those shots, it's a close win, and not a close loss. Maybe he's still hurt, I don't know. But he was not in MVP form this game.

[5] Even with his poor shooting, Nash was still a +7; his passing game is able to create points for others. When Steve went out, the offense went into a crawl. My god, what's happened to Barbosa? He's hot one night, cold the next. Tonight he was 4/17 from he field, 2/10 on 3s, and was a -15 for the game. Basically, he shot the Suns out of the game during the time he was in.

Why? Who knows. Maybe it's time for LB to re-think all that summer ball with the brazilian team, and get healthy and work on his game.

[6] Here's what gets me mad about Boris. He is a "match-up" guy. He's not a true PF/C. The idea is that he's supposed to exploit his skill game to put offensive pressure on opposing PF/C's. The thing is, he's not doing that. Nothing in the way Boris is playing now puts pressure on the other team... NOTHING. And on the other end of the floor, he's not rebounding or defending well, as you would expect. It's a lose-lose situation for us.

[7] Grant Hill was not at all effective tonight defensively. Yeah, he scored well, but it seemed like he couldn't stop anybody. I hope this was an isolated event.

[8] Maybe it's just me but, it seemed like the team practically enjoyed their defensive push in the 2nd qtr, when Marion, Stat, and Skinner were playing together. Marion and Amare were playing their natural positions, and they seemed liberated by it. I think Amare liked not having to bang with Shaq or Mourning. Those 3 guys make for a very effective defensive and rebounding trio. I don't know if Skinner has the conditioning to play that way for 25-30 minutes. But I'm sure it's something Mike is looking at.

[9] Suns were just 8/13 from the foul line (61.5%). Versus Minny, the Suns were 10/15 (66.7%). The Suns are not good enough that they can waste chances from the line. Time to get to practice, guys.

[JediSkywalker]

I have to disagree with you. He hurts us in key games, which are the most important. I could care less if he goes off for 80 against the Clippers, it's how terrible he is against the Spurs and other SMART teams that kills us.

WORD. His nonproduction during the playoffs really hurt us against the Spurs. It was blamed on an injury, but I won't be surprised if the same thing happens again this season.

[Nate]

My take on the Barbs discussion:

1.) I agree with fixxxer that Barbosa usually helps us more than he hurts us. Thats because over the course of the season he was last season and still somewhat is this season an efficient scorer which is needed with our kind of gameplan.

2.) Good as a scorer/finisher, Barbosa is not a playmaker. He doesnt seem too have too much "basketball IQ", since he often doesnt know how to pick his spots. Instead, Barbs sometimes kills any teamplay when he starts to overdribble which is happening too often, even when paired with Hill and Diaw. He shouldnt be used as the primary ballhandler. His contract is still reasonable.

3.) Comparing Barbs with Ginobili is ridiculous. Manu is one of the premier sg's/sf's in the league for some time now and can do it all. He definitely knows what he is doing and is a great example of a player who sacrifizes money and fame (as in shots taken) for the chance to play in a great situation in SA. Manu was Euroleague MVP at the age of 24, carrying his team to the championship. Barbs neither has his all-around skills nor his personality, and he will never be the leader Manu was even in 2002. Still, Barbs still has the better shot.

4.) Barbs still has the benefit of the doubt with me regarding last seasons Spurs series. Barbs is what he is. Good average as a starting SG or very good as a bench scorer. He is paid accordingly. If we have to rely on Barbs to be a killer because our main guys are totally taken out of their game, Barbs will only be our killer. If we play him as what he is, a scorer who can help us win a lot of games, he will be of help even in the playoffs. Just dont let him handle the ball to much. It kills any offensive cohesion and is definitely worse than just giving Amare the ball at the ellbow or down low.


Edit: Just as a fact, Barbs is averaging 17.5 points in 30 min of the bench at 47,5% shooting, which is still good. His 3pt% is way down to 33%.

[Superbone]

The Nash over shoulder pass was a bright spot in a horrific game.
I'm glad I watched for that alone ( replayed it no less than 6 times...)

Yep, that and Skinners head fake and drive to the hoop while scoring on 2 defenders.

[sunsman]

I think one tough thing for this team, is that you have about 14 mil in salaries that don't really contribute to this team in Diaw and Banks. Could you imagine the type of player we could have on this team or players we could have with that kind of salary. Guess it goes to show how big of a disaster it really was that BC left. That summer really has choked us for the next 3 years, because God knows, there isn't any team in there right mind that would take those two players at those salaries. I think someone earlier mentioned the departure of KT, I really think that Skinner has filled in really well for him. At a much friendlier salary. The thing also, the three point shooting since the 04-05 season has continued to drop every season really. I mean think about it, Grant Hill historically not a great three point shooter, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, I mean these guys arn't exactly riflemen. I mean the first year we had Q, JJ and we picked up Jimmy Jackson, all of which could stroke the 3 at an alarming rate.

One other thing also, I think the league has caught up to this team. Caught up to there style, and even a lot of teams are running like the Suns as well. This team reminds me a lot of the first ST Louis Rams team, when Kurt Warner took over. No one could match that speed. They didn't know what hit them, teams wern't ready for it, they just killed teams, ran them off the field. We did the same thing the first year of the new system with Nash at the helm. There were so many games we would win by like 40, it was just filth. You guys remember that? Teams wouldn't know what hit them, we would go on these 22-2 runs and just hammer them into the ground. I think teams have caught up, coaches have figured things out. And now four seasons later, no championship, Nash is getting older, our team has gotten WAY older overall, and not to mention we have some bad contracts and a window that is all but shut.

I have that memory of four bad drafts in a row, and I think that it is finally starting to catch us. Not to mention, I would bet anything that Atlanta makes the playoffs, and the once coveted draft pick turns to dust, as well as that trade. So now looking at that, we have a non motivated, pastry eating, over paid fat guy, to go along with a mediocre draft pick for a franchise caliber player. Where is Chicken Little when you need him?

[INFORMER]

I think one tough thing for this team, is that you have about 14 mil in salaries that don't really contribute to this team in Diaw and Banks.


I have that memory of four bad drafts in a row, and I think that it is finally starting to catch us. Not to mention, I would bet anything that Atlanta makes the playoffs, and the once coveted draft pick turns to dust, as well as that trade.

These two quotes say it all, sunsman.

[jed]

I still don't buy that ATL will be in the postseason. Just won't happen.

Still -- the pick won't be a top one, either.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Mike D'Antoni has to play a traditional lineup. The jig is up. Teams know how to attack "smallball" now.

You are right..The league has caught up...Coach D it's time to coach Nash can't do it for you anymore...Play a traditional lineup

[SpecialSauce]

It's not that teams know how to attack smallball now, it's a combination that our smallball is just not as good this year as it has been in previous years, and our defense and rebounding just stinks.

[Ring_Wanted]

Coach D, play to your guys' strenght. If It's smallball, so be it, but don't impose it at any cost.

[scosuns]

I also think that teams are better understanding how to play us. They realize our rebounding is terrible and use that to their advantage. I also think that Barbosa has been taking way too many threes. And of course, we all know D'Antoni's stubborness.

[INFORMER]

I still don't buy that ATL will be in the postseason. Just won't happen.


You (over)estimate the power of the (Eastern Conference).

-Darth Vader, Stars Episode VII: Rise of the Hawks

[Superbone]

I still don't buy that ATL will be in the postseason. Just won't happen.

Still -- the pick won't be a top one, either.

It's a major drag that we missed out on that no. 4 pick due to the draft lottery system.

[SunsRIt]

Why was Amare on the bench for the last 3 minutes of the game?

[Uncle_Gene]

I also think that teams are better understanding how to play us. They realize our rebounding is terrible and use that to their advantage. I also think that Barbosa has been taking way too many threes. And of course, we all know D'Antoni's stubborness.

Thats my exact point.

Teams know how to play Nash & Co. now. Suns have to do a better job. Regarding D'Antoni's stubborness, I think he stills needs to know how to make "adjustments on the fly".

[Uncle_Gene]

“A couple games here and we seem to be a little out of sync and not quite right,” Suns coach Mike D’Antoni said. “We’re not fast to the ball. We’re not getting into people. No legs, some guys have the flu.” East Valley Tribune

[LazarusLong]

... and some guys aren't playing a lick when they could be getting experience, Coach.

Blockhead.

[INFORMER]

Can someone help me put together a 2011 mock draft? I'm trying to get a head-start.

[Mori_Chu]

Can someone help me put together a 2011 mock draft? I'm trying to get a head-start.

I tried to do a Suns mock draft, but our next draft pick is still a fetus right now so he doesn't have a name.

[INFORMER]

I think I know who you're referring to. They say he has the ability to play at least three positions.

[ShelC]

And his wingspan is over 14 inches right now which lets him play bigger than he is.