Game Day: Suns @ Pacers

[SwingMan]

Will Dunleavy Jr. go off without O'Neal there to take focus away? Will Tinsley pick apart Nash?

Dis∙cuss

[Wormwood]

Phoenix (13-4) at Indiana (9-9)

By BRETT HUSTON, STATS Writer

Joining three All-Stars in Phoenix, Grant Hill was expected to give the Suns a veteran presence and provide some scoring to support the team's dominant trio of Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion.

It turns out, however, that the 35-year-old Hill can still flash his once-dominant form as well.

Hill and the Suns (13-4) look for their third straight win as they play the second game of a five-game road trip Tuesday against the Indiana Pacers.

Hill, a seven-time All-Star, provided the offensive spark in Phoenix's latest win, 115-104 over New York on Sunday. The Suns were clinging to a one-point lead heading into the fourth quarter, but Hill scored nine of his season-high 28 points in a two-minute stretch to start the final period, helping Phoenix open up a 16-point lead before winning by 11.

"Sometimes you need new scenery," said Hill, who spent six injury-plagued seasons in Orlando before signing with the Suns in July. "Coming here is a great environment, great coaching staff, great guys, and just the chance to break away from all the ankle talk and stuff from the past, that's all behind me and I feel good. Now it's about trying to go out and help this team win."

Hill also had eight rebounds and seven assists while making 13 of 17 shots.

"It was a lot of fun to see him go off," said two-time MVP Nash, who's averaging 18.9 points and a league-best 11.1 assists, but shot just 3-for-10 and finished with nine points Sunday. "It was a lot of pressure off me. I didn't have my legs and he kind of took over. Obviously (he is) a great teammate."

Hill is only fifth on the Suns with 15.6 points per game, a testament to the team's offensive balance - leading scorer Stoudemire averages 19.3 points - and Phoenix is once again one of the NBA's top scoring clubs at 108.4 points a game.

The Suns have dominated the Pacers lately, winning the last four meetings by an average of 16.0 points. Nash has been the main reason, averaging 23.5 points and 10.0 assists in those games.

Indiana (9-9) is back home after a successful four-game trip against Western Conference teams, during which it won three of four. Additionally, the Pacers got All-Star center Jermaine O'Neal back midway through the trip after a knee injury had sidelined him for five games.

O'Neal, who has led Indiana in scoring the past six seasons, responded well, notching two double-doubles. He had 20 points and 15 rebounds in just 28 minutes of the Pacers' 101-95 win over the Los Angeles Clippers on Sunday.

He played despite suffering a right shoulder injury in his first game back, a 95-93 loss to Seattle on Friday.

"The Seattle game was actually the first time I didn't have pain in my knee in almost a year and a half, and (against the Clippers) I didn't have any pain in my knee at all," O'Neal said.

"My shoulder was about 85 percent," he added. "We iced it a lot (Saturday), I took some Advil, iced it again (Sunday) morning and was ready to go."

Point guard Jamaal Tinsley has stepped up with O'Neal hurting. He scored a season-high 29 points against the Clippers and added seven assists and seven rebounds. Tinsley's had at least 10 assists in seven of his past nine games.

"I'm always confident when the ball is in my hands. I don't care if I miss eight or nine shots, I feel like the next one is going to go in," he said.

Tinsley has struggled during the Suns' four-game winning streak against Indiana, shooting 10-for-31 and averaging just 8.3 points and 4.7 assists in the three games he'd played.


Team Comparison
Team Record Standings PF PA Road/Home Streak L10
Phoenix 13-4 1st Pacific / 2nd West 108.4 102.7 Road 7-2 Won 2 8-2
Indiana 9-9 3rd Central / 6th East 102.2 103.6 Home 4-5 Won 1 6-4

Phoenix Notes
Dec 3 While F Grant Hill was the main topic for coach Mike D'Antoni, veteran F Brian Skinner also received some praise for solidifying the game defensively, especially against Knicks C Eddy Curry and F Zach Randolph. "Brian guards the basket. He does a good job on Zach Randolph and Curry. We're a little better defensively when a presence like Brian is in the game." ... Skinner played 18 minutes, 34 seconds - his second highest of the season - and was in there for the entire fourth quarter. ... G Steve Nash failed to score in double figures for the second time this season and both instances were against the Knicks. He had five points in the meeting in Phoenix on November 13. ... Phoenix has won consecutive games in New York for the first time since January 2, 1990 and March 5, 1991. ... The Suns have scored at least 110 points in their last four visits to New York.


Indiana Notes
Dec 2 Though he is one of the team's best players, the Pacers tend to fare better when F Jermaine O'Neal doesn't play. They are 4-8 when O'Neal plays and 5-2 when he doesn't. O'Neal has been hampered with a swelling in his left knee and Friday had to sit out the last two minutes of the Seattle loss with a right shoulder injury, but started Sunday's game. ... This is the last game of a four-game road trip in which the team was 3-1. ... G James Tinsley kept his streak alive of getting at least one steal a game. He has at least one in the last 11 games and is averaging 2.3 per game and had three Sunday.


Jermaine O'Neal will play tonight. The big worry again is Indiana's front line full of 7 footers. Marion can't possibly guard JO, Amare did a craptacular job of it last year (didn't JO go off for 40 points?). The biggest question is how long it will be before D'Antoni gets smart and puts Skinner on JO. The other big problem is the Pacers are a good three point tshooting team, but also have a down low guy who demands a double team. This college style scrambling stuff won't work tonight, Dunleavy will have a big game. Book it that he'll hit at least 4 three pointers.

[sehan]

"Brian guards the basket. He does a good job on Zach Randolph and Curry. We're a little better defensively when a presence like Brian is in the game."

Geeze... .

It is like, it pains D'Antoni to admit defense matters or any one bigger than 6'8 is an asset.

Start Skiner and Amare... they both will run the other big man ragged.

110 to 98 Suns.

[jkalldaway]

"Brian guards the basket. He does a good job on Zach Randolph and Curry. We're a little better defensively when a presence like Brian is in the game."

Geeze... .

It is like, it pains D'Antoni to admit defense matters or any one bigger than 6'8 is an asset.

Start Skiner and Amare... they both will run the other big man ragged.

110 to 98 Suns.

Are you saying to sit Bell? Nash, Hill, Marion, Amare, Skinner? That's losing the three-point weapon which leads to a congested offense. You can play that lineup in spurts tonight but I wouldn't play it for majority of the rotation minutes.

[wpmiller42]

Are you saying to sit Bell? Nash, Hill, Marion, Amare, Skinner? That's losing the three-point weapon which leads to a congested offense. You can play that lineup in spurts tonight but I wouldn't play it for majority of the rotation minutes.

I don't think you HAVE to sit Bell. We have three very capable guys who can start in the 2 spot with LB, Raja, and Hill. Considering Raja's minor injuries, I don't think it would hurt if he came off the bench and we started LB instead.

Starting Skinner is such a great idea I think. Whether or not we start Raja, LB, or Hill at the 2, it just makes our second unit so much better. Especially if we have Grant come in and run the offense; he's that distributor we envisioned Boris being. And we have the continued 3 point threat with Raja or LB in there.

A previous post in another thread suggested having Raja come off the bench against the spurs specifically to shut down ginobilli, which I thought was an interesting idea.

[Squeege63]

I don't think you HAVE to sit Bell. We have three very capable guys who can start in the 2 spot with LB, Raja, and Hill. Considering Raja's minor injuries, I don't think it would hurt if he came off the bench and we started LB instead.

Starting Skinner is such a great idea I think. Whether or not we start Raja, LB, or Hill at the 2, it just makes our second unit so much better. Especially if we have Grant come in and run the offense; he's that distributor we envisioned Boris being. And we have the continued 3 point threat with Raja or LB in there.

A previous post in another thread suggested having Raja come off the bench against the spurs specifically to shut down ginobilli, which I thought was an interesting idea.

interesting ideas, makes us more balanced, like the spurs.

Starters
Nash
Barbosa
Marion
Amare
Skinner

Bench

Hill
Raja
Diaw

Deep Bench

Banks
Marks
DJ
Pike

Gives us a versatile attack up front that can run our tempo but can also play big

has two distributors and two scorers off the bench

Only real negative is we need another legitimate big on the bench b/c if amare and skinner get in foul trouble we'd be screwed

[wpmiller42]

interesting ideas, makes us more balanced, like the spurs.

Starters
Nash
Barbosa
Marion
Amare
Skinner

Bench

Hill
Raja
Diaw

Deep Bench

Banks
Marks
DJ
Pike

Gives us a versatile attack up front that can run our tempo but can also play big

has two distributors and two scorers off the bench

Only real negative is we need another legitimate big on the bench b/c if amare and skinner get in foul trouble we'd be screwed

I agree that we would be in trouble if Amare and Skinner get into foul trouble early. The positive is that I think with Skinner starting at the 5, Amare would be less prone to pick up fouls at the 4 spot.

If we don't sign a serviceable big guy, I think we would have to rely on Boris to play quality defense at the 4 or 5, which he has done before, sometimes exceptionally well.

[Mori_Chu]

I think Grant Hill should come off the bench, and Brian Skinner should start.

[MTSunsFan]

Grant Hill has arguably been our best player as of late. No way do you send him to the bench IMHO...

[Spanky]

Anyone else with league pass getting a double feed of the Hawks game on the Phoenix channel ?

Never mind, they fixed it....

[sose]

I am listening on nba.com.. Glad they made it free..

[gladiator]

This getting the ball to Amare early seems to be working

[jkalldaway]

We should trade that Amare guy.

[sunsdotcom]

I think Grant Hill should come off the bench, and Brian Skinner should start.

maybe against san antonio only.

[SwingMan]

The refs are FINALLY allowing Amare to play - and he's taken full advantage of it by being, easily, the most active I've seen him since last season.

On the flip, Diaw couldn't get lit at a cash free bar - what a fucking noodle.

[y2jjedipimp]

WEll i was supposed to be at the game tongiht but last minute ticket hook up fell through so i missed my one opportunity of the year to see the SUns...
I am kinda upset cuz i forgot Thunder Dan would be in town and also that Steve Kerr is there as well...any takes on why he would be at a worthless Pacer game?

[SwingMan]

WEll i was supposed to be at the game tongiht but last minute ticket hook up fell through so i missed my one opportunity of the year to see the SUns...
I am kinda upset cuz i forgot Thunder Dan would be in town and also that Steve Kerr is there as well...any takes on why he would be at a worthless Pacer game?

Leander mentioned that Kerr was in town scouting the Hoosiers, FWIW.

[jkalldaway]

Leander mentioned that Kerr was in town scouting the Hoosiers, FWIW.

Gordon is injured so I don't know who they would be looking at.

[ShelC]

Quick thought, we need to reinforce the fact that Boris should be looking to finish plays at the basket. I can understand his drive and kick out to Barbs for a 3pt attempt in the corner, but towards the end of the 3rd he drove and had an open lay-in, but passed it out to Skinner for a 12ft baseline jumper that he missed. Thats not the smart play.

[triplethreat06]

this is absolutely pathetic. We might be the most inconsistent team within the flow of the game. Why did D'antoni bring Nash in at the end of the 3rd?? He usually gets his rest and it seemed to show no confidence in the guys on the floor, they proceeded to just give up on defense.

I don't care what the outcome of this game is, it's just sad...

[UOducks4life]

That offensive foul on Amare was such bullshit it's not even fathomable.

[jpj]

13% from 3 point land, yeah that sucks!

[triplethreat06]

Nash is channeling Larry Bird right here

[triplethreat06]

They were really doubling Nash hard on D and posting him up on O and he still drops those bombs

[BigLewy]

Is there a reason Barbs only played 18 mins? I hope its not an injury.

[bobster]

well, i guess amare [42 points, 13 rebounds] is worth something after all.

nash was getting abused defensively, but he did suck it up and made that huge 3-ponter, plus he had 17 assists.

nice game by skinner - 8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 blocks in 17 minutes

and it looks like barbosa still isn't feeling right [1 of 8 FG for 4 points].

[ShelC]

Great game tho! MVP!!!MVP!!!MVP!!!

[Suns_Dave]

Very entertaining game to watch. Loved the clutch play down the stretch.

[Nashfan]

It really hurts when Barbosa, Marion, and Diaw can't score. I'm really disgusted with Diaw, he acts like he could care less about playing. If he can't score at least rebound or get assists. I was mildly surprised by Skinners outside shot, not bad form. I think we got ahead early and then got lazy. I sure wish this team would stop doing this, plus we didn't run much. Oh well, a win is a win. Nash and Amare come through for us at the end.

[Nashfan]

Is there a reason Barbs only played 18 mins? I hope its not an injury.

Yeah, he couldn't shoot or defend tonight. I think they said in the paper that he sprained his ankle, not sure though.

[AmareIsGod]

Typical game day thread. When we win, the thread is FLOODED with 2 or 3 page. When we lose, its 9 to 11 pages at the least. Way to go .netters!

Great game. Amare had a MONSTER game. Seems like he's slowly but surely getting his stamina and legs back underneath him. Hill was on fire. Wish he would have gotten more touches late when we hit a dryspell in the 4th. Nash was Nash. The guy has ice flowing through his veins. Quiet, scoring wise, all game. Nails a HUGE 3 pointer when our team was dead cold from the outside. That jumper by Amare with 1 second on the shot clock and less than a minute left in the game was clutch. Amare's jumper was automatic tonight. Honestly, he probably has one of the prettiest jumpers on the entire team and he's our 6'10" point center. Anyone else notice a few nice dimes by Amare as well? The dish to Matrix for the dunk after the D' collapsed on Amare made me smile from ear to ear knowing that everyone that has been pissing on Amare around here lately and wishing he would have been traded was probably eating a little crow.

Go Suns! It wasn't always pretty, but we came up huge at the end and got what matters: the win. I know a lot of folks will be complaining about us surrendering the lead in this thread and in tomorrows news thread. But I'll count my lucky stars and goto bed a happy fan tonight, regardless of the doomsday prophecies that will continue to be proclaimed by some.

[desertcoast]

We should trade that Amare guy.

he does suck, doesn't he? :)

btw..nice defensive footwork by Amare in the last minute of the game.
He actually *stopped* a drive to the hoop.

good to see....

[AmareIsGod]

If there is one TRUE negative this year, it definitely has been Boris. The guy plays like he could give two shits about what happens out there. Does he have any testicles or a heart? Get on the ground! Hussle. Stop passing up 2 foot hook shots and layups when you have your man beat. Excuse my French (no pun intended), but stop being a fucking pussy. Boris frustrates me to no end. I'd rather see ANYONE play with some fire and intensity instead of the "duh'r duh duh'r" nonchalant shit I see Boris parade around on the court. Man up or sit the hell down. We don't need tentative, seemingly non-caring *******s wasting space on the floor.

[Suns_Dave]

It really hurts when Barbosa, Marion, and Diaw can't score. I'm really disgusted with Diaw, he acts like he could care less about playing. If he can't score at least rebound or get assists. I was mildly surprised by Skinners outside shot, not bad form. I think we got ahead early and then got lazy. I sure wish this team would stop doing this, plus we didn't run much. Oh well, a win is a win. Nash and Amare come through for us at the end.

We didn't get lazy, Indiana cranked up the defense and made a run. And we ran all night -- almost 30 fast break points! Agree about Diaw though, he played poorly again.

[sose]

Well, could only listen.. Not pleased with letting the pacers back in the game.. But the 3's just were not falling.. We sucked from deep and still put up 121. Go suns! Lets keep the streak alive tomorrow on the road.

[CharlesV]

Typical game day thread. When we win, the thread is FLOODED with 2 or 3 page. When we lose, its 9 to 11 pages at the least. Way to go .netters!

Word.

I was happy with the team effort all the way around, especially when it looked like the Suns were going to lose. That was a vintage Nash 3 pointer to take the lead. How many times has he done that? The guy is amazing.

Amare wasnt too bad either, I assume he is off the .net trading block for the moment.

[JediSkywalker]

Why can't the Suns let their fans relax after taking 15-20 point leads? This game was just ridiculous. How could they let the Pacers back in the game? We almost lost the game. MVSteve worked his magic again- making a 3 pointer exactly when the team needed it.

Why is Marcus Banks not playing? He had a couple of decent games this year. Dantoni gives up on a bench player too soon. I am no fan of Banks, but he could provide a breather to our aging starters. OTOH if Nash had taken a breather tonight, the Suns would have lost the game.

[AmareIsGod]

Suns win! Suns win! SUUUUUUNS WIN!

I'll take a win over a loss anyday. Amare does a few things wrong here and there and trade talks start flaring up around these parts. Then everyone simply shuts up when he plays like a superstar tonite. Too busy eating some tasty crow to reply now?

Diaw CONTINUES to play like a complete waste of space and money and yet slides for the most part around here. There should be Diaw hatred spewed left and right. Instead he's given excuses such as, "playing alongside Amare causes Diaw to be passive and not play as well." Doesn't mean he should look like an emotionless pansy out there. Doesn't mean he shouldn't hustle. Instead of a simple slap on the wrists, Boris needs to get trashed on way more than Amare and others tend to around these parts.

Oh yeah, SUNS WIN! Goooooo SUNS!

[FrontRowSun]

Word.

I was happy with the team effort all the way around, especially when it looked like the Suns were going to lose. That was a vintage Nash 3 pointer to take the lead. How many times has he done that? The guy is amazing.

Amare wasnt too bad either, I assume he is off the .net trading block for the moment.

I changed my preferred view to 40 posts per page in the user CP section. I would suggest that all of you with a high speed connection do the same. I won't be looking at 10 or 11 page threads any longer.


AMARE looked good tonight, but Boris has put the dress on for the last few games. Without him, our bench becomes very ordinary.

Hopefully Leo gets alot of minutes tomorrow night and has his shot flowing. Nash will need the rest.

[DrSublime]

42 and 13 for Amare....
nice..
that bring his season scoring average to..
20.8

somthing is just soothig about 20+ PPG, dont know what or why.

[AmareIsGod]

Good heads up FrontRow. It was getting frustrating navigating through 10 post pages. I changed mine to 40 as well. I might goto 30 if I find this to be too much to digest at once :P A.D.D. is a motha'fukaa.

[SunsRIt]

Nice finish by the Suns. Like I said more Amare is a good thing. Go to him early and often.

[FrontRowSun]

And for our nightly horror show:

Nash - 39 Minutes
Hill - 36 Minutes
Bell - 38 Minutes
Marion - 40 Minutes

Obviously, the minutes were needed tonight as our defense was pretty bad most of the night. Nash hit the dagger 3 at the end and also poured in 17 assists, but also missed his 3rd and 4th free throws of the season.

Leo and Doris had 16 and 15 minutes played which should help us tomorrow night if both can play better than they did tonight. Hopefully they find their fire. We will need the rest in Canada.

[Nashfan]

he does suck, doesn't he? :)

Yeah, that Amare kid sure does suck. (sarcasm)

[Nashfan]

We didn't get lazy, Indiana cranked up the defense and made a run. And we ran all night -- almost 30 fast break points! Agree about Diaw though, he played poorly again.

I thought we looked too content with our lead, plus it didn't help that Diaw played so poorly yet again. Barbosa and Marion and to some degree Bell were having bad shooting nights also. Still happy we gutted out a win though.

[DrSublime]

i really wana know why Boris is playing like Boris lite...
he has SO much potential, but he plays with no FIRE...

if he had only 1/20th of the Fire that Amare, or Garnett, or Bell, Nash etc have he would be a tremendous player.

[gladiator]

Some very good signs, especially the clutch play at the end, to outweigh some negatives. I really think getting Amare plenty of touches early is a key for us.

[ShelC]

Great game! MVP!!!MVP!!!MVP!!!

[Spanky]

The team is obviously not as smooth as we would like, but they came through. Good win. Road wins build that unity and cohesion.

[Spanky]

i really wana know why Boris is playing like Boris lite...
he has SO much potential, but he plays with no FIRE...


I wasn't a big fan of giving Boris that big payday. He has potential, but so have a lot of guys that are out of the league now.

[DrSublime]

I wasn't a big fan of giving Boris that big payday. He has potential, but so have a lot of guys that are out of the league now.

i was, i thought Boris was primed for a breakout even more so.. and he's certianly capeable of doing it.. just dont know why he always is so damn passive.. its great that hes a team player but at some point he needs to be the one slamming it down too. i remember multiple times boris would make such an athletic move i would think it was amare only to remember that amare was out for the year with microfracture surgery...

thank god Barbosa has panned out tho.

[triplethreat06]

i was, i thought Boris was primed for a breakout even more so.. and he's certianly capeable of doing it.. just dont know why he always is so damn passive.. its great that hes a team player but at some point he needs to be the one slamming it down too. i remember multiple times boris would make such an athletic move i would think it was amare only to remember that amare was out for the year with microfracture surgery...

Yeah, he really does have some gifts in the post. It's like he has twice the gifts of Amare but only 1/100th the determination. We all get so angry when we see him pass out to someone on the wing but it's not like he wasn't doing the same exact thing in Atlanta. In fact the day after we got him for JJ I was on the Hawks board and remember reading page after page of people just relieved that they had rid themselves of him. They were saying the exact same things we are right now, He's too passive, he hates contact, etc etc. This is the same guy that abuses Amare in practice one on one.

[OE]

Maybe you guys should wait a few hours after the game ends before you start blasting prospective posters. 10 page threads happen over the course of a few days. Just a thought.

Amare really stepped up tonight. +15.

It became quite evident tonight that our cache of three-point shooters is significantly depleted in comparison to years past. I still think we need a back-up center. The way Diaw's been playing, those who have been suggesting his jettison are looking pretty smart.

[SunsFan4Life]

Thoughts:

Amare was a monster on the Offensive End Tonight. When he picked up his 4th Foul we were up I believe like 8 or 10 then we lost the lead entirely cause he had to go to the bench. One Negitive though Was Jermaine O'Neal was killing Amare then Killg Skinner. Now Jermaine O'Neal is no sloutch he is a freakin all-star but it's the same problem We had against the Spurs wit Duncan.

Barbosa was way cold tonight, It Happens. Diaw...sigh....Yuck. He had a good stretch not to long ago but again, the him sucking when Amare is on trend continues and Amare is gonna be on most of the time so he has got to learn how to get better playin wit him.

Anyone Notice Mike D. The Past 2 games seems to have more confidence in Skinner then Diaw? Diaw played like 15 mins tonight how many did Skinner play? semmed like he was in atleast that.

Nash was Huge again. Amare's First galf 22pts might of been the easiest I've ever seen anyone get to that Nash spoon fed him for about 12 of them and then he hit like 4 or 5 jumpers in rhythem. Pacers clamped down in the 2nd half but he still torched them. Mad Props to him and Nash. Raja Played well again, whcich is awsome. Seems to be healthy. Hill was good again but I don't like all the mintues he is playind espite him being on my fantasy team.

Marion contiues to miss some very easy buckets he missed 2 layups tongiht off of great passes from Nash. Still he crashes the boards as usual what he have 13? 14? tonight...not looking at the boxscore of course.

Good win...way to many points to an average offensive team. But Hey I'll take it...Tommorow will be tough to win if Bosh is back. Nash,Hill,Raja and Marion all played huge mintues and the Raps love to run and Bosh is better then J.O. so he might put up 30 against Amare and Skinner.

15-4...I'll take it though

[SunsFan4Life]

Yea I did not like giving Diaw that contract either having not seen him play wit Stat Before. I didn't want to lose him ofcourse, espcially with Amares health being up in the air, but I knew 9mil was to much I was hoping he would get a contract like Barbosa did.

Anyhow If you go back to that summer, I'd say about 75% of people on here kept saying they did not want to extend Leandro but said to Lock Boris up at any cost possible.

My how things have chanegd haha...oh well hopefully Boris gets it together. We just need the Boris that plays against the Mavs, He always seems to kill them.

[SunsFan4Life]

Diaw and Pike for Mike Miller....Someone call Iavoroni and Barone I'll call Dantoni and Fat Tony from the Simpsons....

[desertcoast]

I still think we need a back-up center. The way Diaw's been playing, those who have been suggesting his jettison are looking pretty smart.

I think everyone here would at least consider trading Diaw.

How to convince another GM not named Thomas to take him...
well, *that* would be "looking pretty smart".

Too bad we can't do trades with the WNBA.
Give Doris to the Mercury for Taurasi.

Diaw can play with other girls, Taurasi can spell Nash.....Win-Win :)

[DrSublime]

[QUOTE=SunsFan4Life;5962]

Anyhow If you go back to that summer, I'd say about 75% of people on here kept saying they did not want to extend Leandro but said to Lock Boris up at any cost possible.

QUOTE]

yep, i was on of those 75%

[JackArse]

boris was moving around originally, he wasn't really involved though, he had a couple of good defensive stands. i think his ankles were bothering him again, and then of course.. they sprained it again when someone fell on it when they called the kick ball on him.

amare was monster, by the 3rd though, you could tell that he was pretty winded, probably part of the reason for the last couple of sloppy fouls on him, but it's all good with his 42 pts.

marion couldn't hit SHIT.

overall, the team seemed more like the suns we know in the first half
second half was just kinda flat all around.

some of my thoughts may sound kinda mad, or upset at the team, but i'm not, just saying. when they lost the lead, i didn't even get mad, was just kinda like.. eh.. it's one game.

go suns

[y2jjedipimp]

Diaw and Pike for Mike Miller....Someone call Iavoroni and Barone I'll call Dantoni and Fat Tony from the Simpsons....

Amen to that I was just thinking the same thing...how can we get Mike Miller from Memphis?

This team is lacking the pure shooter that this offense needs to thrive. We used to have guys like House, Qrich, Tim Thomas. Even James Jones I'd put in that category. He never went off but he was always a threat to the ohter teams for some reason.

Yes, I know we have Pike but Pike should really just be an assistant coach in this league and not a basketball player. Nash cannot be our shooter and playmaker all at once everytime we get into trouble...it jsut wont work consistantly

We rely on guys who are slashers to do shot up shooting. Guys like Hill and Barbosa...Hill has never been a spot shooter and Babs can be sometimes but he is a slasher scorer not a lite-em-up from pure shooting ability.

Struggling against a team like the PAcers just doesnt do it fo rme...I kept asking myself y we werent blowing this team out of the water tonight....

We need a shooter....Kerr dont be a dummy make it happen.

[TexSUN]

Tommorow will be tough to win if Bosh is back. Nash,Hill,Raja and Marion all played huge mintues and the Raps love to run and Bosh is better then J.O. so he might put up 30 against Amare and Skinner.

15-4...I'll take it though

Doesn't sound like Bosh will be there: http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/ulmer_120307.html



Nash and the Phoenix Suns will play the shorthanded Raptors, Wednesday at ACC. The Raps will be without franchise player Chris Bosh, out with a groin strain, and second-year-big man Andrea Bargnani who is nursing a sore left knee.
They'll have back T.J. Ford, though.

[k_kwan]

I agree with some of the previous post. When Amare has the type of game we're all used to see him having none of the negafans come out to play. No trades , or D Howard is better rants!

As I've been saying from the beginning give Amare time be patient. He's proven us all wrong before so I'm never gonna doubt that kid again. He'll be back prime and ready when playoffs roll.

A win is a win in my book go suns!

[SpecialSauce]

The less Barbosa is out, the better. Total ball stopper with the 2nd unit

[sehan]

The less Barbosa is out, the better. Total ball stopper with the 2nd unit

LOL - I guess we got to basically bash, kill, and trade one Sun's player after everygame.

I vote for Diaw.

[sunsdotcom]

Struggling against a team like the PAcers just doesnt do it fo rme...I kept asking myself y we werent blowing this team out of the water tonight....

one way to look at our current team is that we are good at winning close games, unlike in past years under nash.

sure, sometimes we let the opposing teams come back, but we manage to win in the end. ;) unlike last year. :(

[SwingMan]

Regardng Diaw:

I was one who thought he was worth approximately $9-$10 million per after '05-'06.

Turns out it looks like pride in making the Hawks look silly while snagging a quick grub stake were his main priorities.

I can't put into words how miserable he looks right now. Sure, I think his ankles - never given time to recouperate - may be playing a part in his sluggish play, but what's the excuse for not giving a shit? TWICE the guy was AT THE RIM for lay-ups/dunks and he passed out to an infinitely more difficult shot.

Why the coaches need to keep on the ass of a grown man is beyond me, but it needs to happen with Boris.

(please stop reading NOW if you're easily offended)

Maybe he's "having" too many women inbetween - I mean, you are what you eat.....

[Nate]

To continue Swings thoughts:

Maybe the Suns should establish sth like what the Dallas Cowboys had with their "Roadhouse" in the 90s. Boris only gets entry if he had at least one slam in the previous game. For every other slam, he gets one more chick.

[ShelC]

In fact the day after we got him for JJ I was on the Hawks board and remember reading page after page of people just relieved that they had rid themselves of him. They were saying the exact same things we are right now, He's too passive, he hates contact, etc etc.

None of those things were true in the final months of the 05-06 season. Boris needs the ball in his hands consistantly in order to be effective. And he also needs people staying on him telling him to be aggressive. We should be working Boris in the post, opposite of Hill and Barbs on the perimeter in the 2nd unit. Make sure Boris gets the ball first tho (which means Hill is running the point and making the entry pass, NOT barbs), and run plays off him. Let him either score or do a drive and kick for a Barbs 3 or a Hill midrange pull up or slash. I really dont think it should be this hard to figure out how to make it work with him. Just watch the 05-06 playoffs when he was dominatiing in the post.

[Phoenix219]

So basically, if our whole gameplan needs to be to make a point of feeding Amare to get him going and establish good rhythm with him, it needs to be the same focus and priority for Boris in the second unit. Our guards are good to go, but our bigmen all need to be coddled, pimped, pushed and/or encouraged.

[Xcon]

One comment and one observation:
Coach give all of Boris' minutes to Skinner. I love that guy's hustle and he's not afraid to mix it up. plus I think he blends very well with Amare and Marion up front. For the observation, does Amare look lighter than he used to? He doesn't look as big as he was to me. Maybe and effort to lighten up a little for his knees? Maybe it was just seeing him next to Howard. Anybody else think he looks lighter this year or at least right now?

[Mori_Chu]

> It really hurts when Barbosa, Marion, and Diaw can't score.

Everybody's on Diaw (rightfully) for being so passive and basically sucking. I am more noticing the regression of Barbosa and Marion. Barbs looks like he's hurt or something; his shooting and scoring seems way down lately. Marion just looks like he's starting to decline. He can't get points any more other than garbage baskets. His 3-pointer from the top of the key is just dreadful.

But I totally agree that Diaw is playing like a total sissy. Why does he F'ING pass the ball when he gets by his man and gets all the way to the hoop? Just F'ING lay it in you big wuss!

[Dustbuster]

I agree with some of the previous post. When Amare has the type of game we're all used to see him having none of the negafans come out to play. No trades , or D Howard is better rants!

As I've been saying from the beginning give Amare time be patient. He's proven us all wrong before so I'm never gonna doubt that kid again. He'll be back prime and ready when playoffs roll.

A win is a win in my book go suns!

k_kwan and Amareisgod: One game does not a player make. We are all fans of the team, and if you will look at the more measured posts (mine, for instance), most of us here have not stated that we wanted Amare gone, or that he stinks, we have simply been pointing out some flaws in his game that need work...and still do, BTW. We mostly want to see him playing with more consistent intensity and to learn how to play even average defense for a big man. We want to see him playing more like he did last night. He had a great game, and we are ALL happy about that.

Before you jump all over those of us who have posted concerns about Amare, please also note that as a defender he still had a sub-par game. He also still almost fouled out of the game, although I must give him credit for not picking up that last foul over the last six minutes of the game. BTW, regarding Howard: he is currently listed with four other players on Yahoo sports as one of the early MVP candidates. In the poll, he is tied with KG as the frontrunner at 27%. Howard is becoming one of the top players in the game - it's not an insult to Amare to discuss ways that he is better than Amare.

The Suns showed that they were the veteran team down the stretch last night. They made the plays and the Pacers didn't. This is one area where the Suns have improved over the last several years. I remember lamenting a couple of years back about how Nash always seemed to blow those last minute comeback or win attempts, but he (and the team) have certainly improved in that area. He has become an incredibly clutch player - much more than what he was when he came to the Suns.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but here come some negatives (its all about balance, baby!!:wink:)

1) D'Antoni makes noises about going deeper and giving other guys a chance, but he doesn't really mean it. He doesn't like to lose - at all. That's great, but like many of you, I feel that his unwillingness to do some development during the season (and perhaps lose a few games) severely hampers our ability in the playoffs. Someone invariably gets injured, and D'Antoni's instinctive reaction is to shorten the rotation.

A basic problem with his system is that he doesn't play basically anyone outside of his chosen 8, but he also doesn't do much in the way of practice, so the other guys (and rookies) don't really get a chance to develop through practice situations. His system is designed around veterans (and to take it easy on them), but our veterans are getting older and we need a team for tomorrow. Its not a development system at all.

2) Boris Diaw is at his all-time low as a Phoenix Sun. I instinctively want to root for him for some reason, but he is mostly disgusting me. If it is his ankles, then he needs to sit. If it is not, then they need to find a way to motivate him. Skinner has supplanted him in the rotation for two games now, which is great for Skinner, but there is no way that Skinner is even in the same room as Diaw talent-wise. I love what Skinner brings, but we need Diaw to provide value. He is no longer a part of the "seven starters" anymore.

In conclusion: Kudos to Mike for going to Skinner and to Skinner for providing. Kudos to Raja for getting his game back. Kudos to Nash and Amare for being the dynamic duo that we need. Kudos to Grant Hill for continuing to be more than we expected. Kudos to Skinner for making us not miss KT hardly at all.

Thumbs down: Marion is still making more mistakes than ever before. Barbosa needs to get well. Diaw needs a beating.

[desertcoast]

I hope this isn't taken in the same spirit as some of the "player bashing" that has gone on recently, but seeing how we look at our Diaw-honeymoon now with more , say, balance....

I have a nagging feeling about Barbosa..maybe someone can verify.
Would you categorize him as being injury -prone for his first few years in the league?
It seems they aren't always contact or "event" related...they just happen.

His durability is beginning to send up a flag to me.

Maybe someone can shoot my observation down in flames enough for me to not be concerned about that :)

any takers?

(looking only at games missed doesn't tell the whole story, as he seems to play injured for stretches..like now and 07 Spurs series..and his production drops dramatically....)

[Superbone]

Diaw made his worst decision ever last night when he decided to pass the ball to Skinner for a 15 footer rather than lay the ball in the hoop. Bad Diaw. Bad!

[SwingMan]

I hope this isn't taken in the same spirit as some of the "player bashing" that has gone on recently, but seeing how we look at our Diaw-honeymoon now with more , say, balance....

I have a nagging feeling about Barbosa..maybe someone can verify.
Would you categorize him as being injury -prone for his first few years in the league?
It seems they aren't always contact or "event" related...they just happen.

His durability is beginning to send up a flag to me.

Maybe someone can shoot my observation down in flames enough for me to not be concerned about that :)

any takers?

(looking only at games missed doesn't tell the whole story, as he seems to play injured for stretches..like now and 07 Spurs series..and his production drops dramatically....)

Babs is fine if Ginobili isn't falling - thanks to the flopping - into his left knee TWICE in one season (05-06) or isn't catching every deferred childhood malady known to man in one season (04-05).

As for this season, he's dealt with the repaired elbow and bruised ribs - he had to play for his national team and had to step in for Raja's ailments while dealing with both of 'em.

I'd say he needs a day off more than anything else - then start him.

[misteradiant]

LOL - I guess we got to basically bash, kill, and trade one Sun's player after everygame.

I vote for Diaw.

maybe coach ought to just bench doris for a few games and give banks some burn. my bet is marcus can get more than 2 points and 2 assists and 0 rebounds in 15 minutes.

[misteradiant]

I hope this isn't taken in the same spirit as some of the "player bashing" that has gone on recently, but seeing how we look at our Diaw-honeymoon now with more , say, balance....

I have a nagging feeling about Barbosa..maybe someone can verify.
Would you categorize him as being injury -prone for his first few years in the league?
It seems they aren't always contact or "event" related...they just happen.

His durability is beginning to send up a flag to me.

Maybe someone can shoot my observation down in flames enough for me to not be concerned about that :)

any takers?

(looking only at games missed doesn't tell the whole story, as he seems to play injured for stretches..like now and 07 Spurs series..and his production drops dramatically....)


i'll take you up on that:

you're freaking out, man. a twisted ankle is a pretty rough thing to overcome while not missing a game. while i think it's past the "it's early in the season" excuse, i would like to see him do a little better. still, didn't he have 39 points already this year? everybody goes through stretches where they kinda suck. they often go through them multiple times a year. i say it's no big deal. next week we'll forget about it and lb will be fine.

as for those saying marion is a step slow, i don't buy it. he had 12 rebounds last night. yeah, he's missing his layups but we've seen him do that for years. he always comes around. he's getting high enough and again, he's still getting a ton of rebounds. i mean, he's 7th in the league right now and some are saying he's looking like he lost a step? please. he's .4 rebounds less than garnett at #4. he gets more than yao ming, tyson chandler and 2.3 more than even tim duncan.

so there!

[OE]

Marion's fine. Barbosa's great, though injured. Diaw - there's no solution. Give him more time, he'll play poorly (unless Amare plays poorly instead); give him less or no time, he'll sit quietly, collect his paycheck, and transfer his the greater part of his effort to laying pipe.

D'Antoni said he wouldn't lose Diaw this year. Too late.

... Imagine. We could have KT and our draft picks back were it not for Boris's contract.

[Phoenix219]

anyone look back and realize Diaw+Banks could have been JJ's extension?

I'd even settle for it being Marions...

[INFORMER]

Marion's fine.

I agree. I thought he got off to a great start this season. He's had a couple of less than perfect outtings, but I don't have any complaints.

Diaw on the other hand . . . :roll: