Monday's News: Hill flashes back - Surprise! Skinner gives Suns edge

[SwingMan]

Hill scores 28 in Suns win (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsonline1203.html)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/pics/1203sunscov.jpg
Suns guard Steve Nash blocks Knicks guard Stephon Marbury from shooting in the first quarter Sunday in New York.

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 2, 2007 10:49 PM

NEW YORK - Suns forward Grant Hill (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsonline1203.html#) noted Sunday what Suns fans have seen for three years.

"We're almost like two different teams when Steve (Nash) is out there and not out there," Hill said.

The difference Sunday was that Suns fans liked the looked of it in a 115-104 victory over the New York Knicks (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsonline1203.html#).
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://view.atdmt.com/AST/view/cnoccbwr0080000008ast/direct/01/450341314 (http://q.azcentral.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsonline1203.html/450341314/ArticleFlex_1/OasDefault/bmw_sports_2007_300_fixed/bmw-sports-300x250.txt/34373233333337313436646134623030?450341314)

Instead of the frequent fades without Nash, Hill brought the Suns back into focus in the game's decisive fourth quarter.

After Phoenix's 14-point, first-half lead was gone and the Suns entered the fourth quarter leading 85-84, Hill opened it with a driving three-point play and three jumpers on the first four possessions.

Then he assisted on guard Leandro Barbosa's transition layup to cap an 11-0 run that set up "Fire Isiah" chants a few minutes later at Madison Square Garden (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsonline1203.html#).

Hill was gone by that point, having asked out of the game with 6:53 to go and a triple-double in sight. He finished with 28 points, eight rebounds and seven assists in 36 minutes. It was his best scoring night since he netted 28 on Dec. 16, 2005, at Dallas.

"This is like being in heaven for a player," Hill said of being with the Suns.

Hill made 13 of 17 shots with a mix of layups and perimeter shots, including a classic crossover with a pull-up on Quentin Richardson.

"Hopefully, I get more and more comfortable with being a playmaker," said Hill, a point forward who had played his career without a true point guard. "We've got to rest the boy sometimes."

Nash was 3 of 10 from the field, a game after going 2 of 8 when he aggravated an old right elbow hyperextension in Friday's win. He shot 56 percent in the first 15 games but still has been a near-flawless creator with 29 assists to three turnovers in the past two games.

"It was fun to see him (Hill) go off," Nash said. "He got on a roll and gave us the space we needed. It was a lot of pressure off me. I didn't have my legs tonight, and he kind of took over."

Though Hill provided the offense, it also was Brian Skinner's defense and activity at both ends against New York's interior that turned the game.

After not playing until the final minute of the first half, Skinner played the final 17 1/2 minutes of the game and was on the court with Hill, Shawn Marion, Barbosa and Boris Diaw for the key, 11-0 run.

It looked like the Suns would roll New York (5-11) like Boston had by 49 last week. The Suns jumped ahead 23-9 but relied on efficiency to maintain the lead as Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph kept scoring inside. The Knicks took a one-point lead three times in the third quarter.

"The way we started, it was almost too easy," Hill said. "We let our guard down and made it a game."

Cheers

Brian Skinner was a difference-maker defensively, and the Suns scored 30 points with him playing all of the fourth quarter.

Jeers

The Suns' bickering comes in isolated doses but reflects poorly on a team that emphasized improving chemistry and enjoyment.

Player of the game

Grant Hill broke open the game in the fourth quarter and finished with 28 points, eight rebounds and seven assists.

View from press row

You have to love the world's most famous arena. Only at Madison Square Garden are media given a sheet to show where celebrities are sitting. Sunday's notables included actress Julianne Moore, actors Sean William Scott, James McAvoy and Jason Lewis, NBA legend Magic Johnson and rappers Fat Joe and Rev. Run. And only at the Garden would several Knicks spend halftime warm-up time talking to Fat Joe.

[SwingMan]

Skinner gives Suns big edge (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsnb1203.html)

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 2, 2007 10:49 PM

NEW YORK - The Suns beat the Knicks (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsnb1203.html#) 115-104 Sunday night.

In Suns big man Brian Skinner's 19 minutes, Phoenix outscored New York by 13. He was that decisive after he first entered to help Amaré Stoudemire avoid a third foul with 1:16 to go in the first half.

His real impact came in the third quarter, just as New York had made it a tight game. Skinner blocked three shots (he got credit for two) in the quarter's final 2:10.
http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifhttp://view.atdmt.com/AST/view/cnoccbwr0080000008ast/direct/01/2092366513 (http://q.azcentral.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsnb1203.html/2092366513/ArticleFlex_1/OasDefault/bmw_sports_2007_300_fixed/bmw-sports-300x250.txt/34373233333337313436646134623030?2092366513)

The Knicks' inside tandem of Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph went quiet with Skinner alongside Stoudemire or Boris Diaw. Against Stoudemire and Shawn Marion, Curry and Randolph threw around their weight and elbows.

"Our defense really rose to the occasion, and he (Skinner) was a big part of that," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "We're better defensively (with Skinner), and he can help us running (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsnb1203.html#) because he's athletic, so it's the best of both worlds."

Skinner's energetic play was worth more than the five points and three rebounds the summary showed. It was infectious for teammates, who score naturally but need better defense.

"We've just got to get the stops," Skinner said. "It's the intangibles that separate you from the mediocre."

Bicker, bicker

Stoudemire twice had words with teammates during Sunday's third quarter. First, he argued on the court with Raja Bell about a play on which Stoudemire held the ball too long and had it stolen by Knicks forward Quentin Richardson.

Three minutes later, Stoudemire came out after a loose ball foul and snapped at Suns guard Marcus Banks on the bench to the point that guard Steve Nash left his resting spot on the baseline floor to sit between Banks and Stoudemire, his newly appointed co-captain.

"We've got to get through that," Nash said. "All teams have it. The best teams do it the least and get it over it the quickest. It's an emotional sport."

Stoudemire declined to comment on the quarrels.
Swing's note: Can the fucking prima donna, Amare - Raja's right.....

Isiah on Nash's legacy

Nash grew up idolizing Knicks coach Isiah Thomas as a small, creative point guard who led a team to a title. That's the step Thomas said Nash needs to carve out his place in history.

"That's always the litmus test, in terms of if you've won a championship or not," Thomas said. "When I was coming in, (Celtics (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1202sunsnb1203.html#) great Bob) Cousy was the guy. No matter what your numbers were, no matter what you did, you had to win because Cousy won. . . . He (Nash) plays the position better than anybody. He's been MVP of this league twice, so the next step for him is to win a ring. Once he puts a ring on his finger, you can talk about him at that level."

Tucker debuts

In his Development League debut, Suns rookie Alando Tucker tallied 25 points and 12 rebounds Saturday in Albuquerque's 92-84 loss at Idaho. He made 11 of 25 shots but was 1 of 7 on three-pointers.

Marbury's dad dies

Knicks guard Stephon Marbury learned after the game that his father, Don, passed away Sunday, according to the Knicks.

[Phoenix219]

What was that "Jeers" section about? Isolated bickering? Who was getting into it??

EDIT: Hadn't read the second article yet; Amare is a passionate player, but this doesn't look too good. I *really* hope that this teams chemistry problems aren't all about Amare, but ever since the '05-'06 team, it seems like chemistry is much better with the rest of the team, and it seems like the new additions (Hill and Skinner) are meshing well with the old bunch sans Amare.

I still really wish we'd signed Tim Thomas instead of Marcus Banks. He was a big part of that '05 chemistry.

[Phoenix219]

Sounds like Isiah is a little bitter, and is still pimping his titles as long as he can. He doesn't want Nash to steal his thunder Lol.

That should be the last thing on his mind...

[Phoenix219]

I found this kind of humorous, concerning Tim Duncans injury....

With 7:40 left in the first half, Duncan got caught up with Portland's James Jones and fell to the floor clutching his knee near the Spurs' basket. Duncan left the court helped by teammates Elson and Robert Horry.

"I didn't get tangled. I was just standing up," Jones said. "He slipped. I hope he's all right, that's all I can say."

Guess (or, it would just be amusing if) JR is still a Sun at heart, or at least holds a grudge from last years playoffs. Maybe he realizes that if things went differently, he would still be in Phoenix. Maybe it was really an accident. Either way, irony that he was involved, an of course, its 6-7 months too late.

[SwingMan]

I'm just happy that the Spurs are FINALLY facing some adversity - LONG overdue.

[Velo]

The NBA ad campaign 'Where Amazing Happens' uses background music by Carly Comando. Here's a url: http://www.lightboxing.org/2007/03/21/carly-comandos-everyday/ . I tried to find the original post where this was requested but the search didn't find anything.


I like the track... its good.


go suns.

[Wormwood]

I really don't like the fact that Amare was getting into it with teammates, especially Raja. Raja's a fiery guy, but he's also someone who works his ass off and has a very high bball IQ. Raja will be a coach someday. Amare would be better off listening. Any chance some of our malaise could be due to tension between Amare and some teammates?

What took Mike D so long to figure out Skinner would help against the Knicks? It took him way too long on that one, since the Knicks are built like a mutated (in the bad way) version of the Spurs. Against teams that run a pair of really big dudes, it's better for us to go big as well. Skinner is fast enough that he can keep up with the break. Too bad he can't hit free throws, though.

[ShelC]

Stoudemire twice had words with teammates during Sunday's third quarter. First, he argued on the court with Raja Bell about a play on which Stoudemire held the ball too long and had it stolen by Knicks forward Quentin Richardson.

That play was ridiculous. He spun around 3 times looking like frankenstein holding the ball over his head. Im beginning to think, more and more, that Amare may be put on the trading block and moved eventually, especially if the right deal comes along. He may be much better suited having a team built around him where hes the main guy getting shots, as opposed to being just another guy in a team oriented offense. And i hate the idea of it.

Isiahs just trying to hold back Nash. Hes a scumbag still trying to hold onto whatever legacy he has left. He took a shot at Nash last year when he played at the garden and did the same this year.

Skinner absolutely needs to be a part of the rotation where hes part of the sub patterns and not just a last resort against bigger teams. We're more of a halfcourt team than ever and Skinner fits the bill defensively and athletically.

I noticed last night that we're allowing Hill to step in for jumpers instead of having him out to the 3pt line. The spacing isnt nearly as great as it would be if he were able to step out further, but hes obviously much more effective from 16-18ft. Still, i'd like to see him running to the corner on the break and nailing the corner 3 when its there.

[SunsRIt]

So the way I read it, it is okay for KG to argue/punch teammates, but not Amare? He was drafted in the first place because of his fiery attitude as well as his play.

[zara_drummer]

Seriously?? Nothing to see here...Move along...lol

I didnt see the play, but I dont look at this as a big deal...Some of the best teams never got along with each other but they still played together.

[Dustbuster]

I never liked it when KG punched his teammates - not at all, and said so loudly on this board at the time. I don't think that anyone on this message board said that KG punching someone (a rookie, at that) was OK.

That being said, unlike Amare, KG actually shows leadership and plays 100% all the time, winning or losing, on both ends of the floor. Amare plays 100% when he is on offensively, and is often guilty of taking plays off defensively even during those games. Quite frankly, there are as many things about Amare that annoy me as impress me.

I wish we could have landed KG this summer. This team would be far more focused if we had.

[Dustbuster]

BTW, I was so saddened to read about Steph's dad dying after the game last night. That was terrible. It seems like nothing has gone right for him (or Q) since they got traded to the Knicks. I liked Steph when he was here, and I am sorry to hear about his loss.

Not to be disrespectful, but I had another thought during the game last night that I might as well put down. When Steph left here, Barbosa was a clueless rookie that almost fell out of the rotation several times. A few years later, I doubt we would trade Barbosa for Marbury straight up. When you consider that Steph makes four times as much as Barbosa, that is pretty amazing. I would guess that most GMs in the league would take Barbosa over Marbury at even money.

[CharlesV]

So the way I read it, it is okay for KG to argue/punch teammates, but not Amare? He was drafted in the first place because of his fiery attitude as well as his play.

I'm ok with it. These guys are like family, and just like any normal healthy family, there will be issues.

Amare is fiery, and plays with a lot of emotion. I would not not anyone to try and take that away from him.

[Dustbuster]

Hill has best night as a Sun
Comments 0 | Recommend 0
Jerry Brown, Tribune
NEW YORK - The Suns were expecting Grant Hill to be a valuable piece when they signed him a two-year deal at just more than the league minimum salary over the summer. But the bargain is getting bigger all the time.


In his best game with Phoenix, Hill scored a season-high 28 points Sunday, including the first nine of the fourth quarter, when the Suns turned a one-point lead into a boat race and ran away from the embattled Knicks 115-104 at a very testy Madison Square Garden.

“I’m feeling more and more comfortable with my role here and the way I can help us win,” said Hill, who’s happier with his decision to come West with every passing day. “Sometimes you need new scenery. Coming here is a great environment, great coaching staff and guys. It was a way to break away from all the ankle (injury) talk and my past and just concentrate on basketball and helping this team win.”

Hill took over while Amaré Stoudemire and Steve Nash — who struggled with his shooting but dished out 15 of Phoenix’s 37 assists — were resting on the bench. Hill hit 13 of 17 shots from the field on the night and added seven assists and eight rebounds.

“When he came to the bench, he said he felt like he was back in Detroit,” Suns guard Raja Bell said. “He looked good, he felt he had a matchup he could exploit and he did what he does.”

Stoudemire matched Hill with 28 points and added 15 rebounds as the Suns opened a five-game Eastern road swing with a 37-point first quarter and closed with 30 more in the fourth. In between the Suns struggled on both ends. But some defensive energy off the bench from Brian Skinner down the stretch allowed the Suns to regroup and ride Hill’s run to victory.

“Grant got in the zone and when we have a guy who’s hot, we stick with the heat,” said Stoudemire, who was one of six Suns to hit at least one 3-pointer. “He didn’t look like he was 35 tonight. He was in flashback mode.”

Ex-Sun Stephon Marbury and Eddy Curry led six Knicks in double figures with 21 points each. After the game, Marbury learned that his father, Don, had passed away during the game. Zach Randolph had 19 points, but only two in the fourth quarter and Skinner and Stoudemire held him to 1-for-7 shooting.

Shawn Marion and Leandro Barbosa had 15 points each for Phoenix, who shot 58 percent from the field and completed their second season sweep in three days.

Question: if Hill stays healthy, will he average more ppg this season than Marion? Our whole starting lineup + Barbosa will probably average 15-20 points, with Amare probably being the top dog for scoring. I can see Hill putting up around 18ppg and Marion being more like 16.5ppg for the season. Hill is just a much more versatile scorer, and as we have just seen, he can take over a game, something that Marion can do but rarely does. The difference: Marion is wholly dependent on someone feeding him, and we don't consistently feed the hot hand (one of our weaknesses, I would say). Hill can create his own shot, and thus has a greater ability to take over a game.

[Dustbuster]

I'm ok with it. These guys are like family, and just like any normal healthy family, there will be issues.

Amare is fiery, and plays with a lot of emotion. I would not not anyone to try and take that away from him.

Charles, that is a valid point. Amare doesn't seem to pull it off all that well, though. I never seem to get the impression that his teammates respect him all that much. He may be a co-captain, but he's a LONG way beneath Nash in the pecking order for this team. Nash was the one that came and sat in-between Amare and Banks last night to shut up their chirping.

[ShelC]

Quite frankly, there are as many things about Amare that annoy me as impress me.

Agreed.

I would guess that most GMs in the league would take Barbosa over Marbury at even money.

Most GMs??? Try ALL.

That being said, unlike Amare, KG actually shows leadership and plays 100% all the time, winning or losing, on both ends of the floor. Amare plays 100% when he is on offensively, and is often guilty of taking plays off defensively even during those games. Quite frankly, there are as many things about Amare that annoy me as impress me.

I wish we could have landed KG this summer. This team would be far more focused if we had.

Agreed. My biggest fear in trading Amare is that we're going to have nothing left to build around when this current window closes. I'd rather have Amare as a foundation than have to find a comparable bigman that can make us a contender. We've been there and done that and it wasnt pretty after Dice left. If we had landed KG tho, we'd be favorites for the next 2 years.

[Wormwood]

Marbury's father suffers heart attack during game
By MARC BERMAN

Can the Knicks’ season take any more grief?

The death of Stephon Marbury’s father, Donald Sr., who suffered an apparent heart attack at the Garden while watching the Phoenix game last night, threw the Knicks into a legitimate state of despair beyond the wins and losses.

Donald was rushed to St. Vincent’s hospital where he passed away. Marbury didn’t know about it until after the game. There’s no telling when he will return to the team.


It was such a bizarre scene after the game. The locker room was shut to reporters for 25 minutes, as they wondered what kind of new incident had transpired. When the reporters arrived, almost every Knick had cleared out, the ones who were left were ashen. Most of his teammates bolted, obviously to give Marbury his space to grieve.

Marbury was in the off-limits training room. Reporters were not told what was going on, though the expression on Knicks’ officials faces indicated something was very wrong.

Speculation was rampant another argument had taken place with him and Isiah Thomas, who was extremely sad during his postgame press conference. The door, usually open, was shut to the training room but Garden president Steve Mills could be seen through the cracks by the shower area, obviously consoling Marbury.

Marbury finally emerged, said a Bible verse about Jesus to the room and was whisked away by security and escorted out of the Garden where he headed to St. Vincent’s Hospital. It wasn’t until 20 minutes later when word started leaking to some reporters Marbury’s father had passed away.

Even before his father’s death, Marbury had admitted to confidants this was the most trying time of his career – his feud with Isiah Thomas, the deaths of his aunt and a coaching mentor, the boos at the Garden. Now he must console his mother, Mabel, whose lost five of her siblings the past few years. Marbury may need an extended leave of absence before he is fit to return.

I honestly feel bad for Steph. No matter if he had the DUI and says some crazy stuff, it's not bad enough to warrant the beat down he's taking in NY. Honestly, I really liked what he did with the $15 sneaker idea, and how he handled being traded.

[darrkin]

Hopefully, they work out this nonsense. We need everyone, including Amare even if he behaves as a jerk off sometimes. BTW I have been way crictical of Raja lately, but when hes on we are almost unbeatable, we were really missing jhis offense earlier in season.

[darrkin]

I honestly feel bad for Steph. No matter if he had the DUI and says some crazy stuff, it's not bad enough to warrant the beat down he's taking in NY. Honestly, I really liked what he did with the $15 sneaker idea, and how he handled being traded.


Steph would be a good backup for Nash, geterdone...Banks and Piat for Steph, New York just may do it....

[Wormwood]

Ummm... the only way Steph comes back here is if NY waives him... Considering the beat down he's taken in NY, the rep he's gotten, and the only city that still loves him is Phoenix, it's not totally unreasonable... The only issue is if Steph would actually accept playing 20 mpg behind Nash...

[FrontRowSun]

Although he should not be in shouting matches with his team mates, Amare shouldn't be traded. Coaches are fired for players as talented as him.

I would much rather fire Dantoni, and mold a half court offense around the talent we have. Focusing on Amare's strengths.


Get me a coach that knows how to play 9 to 10 a night in October and November rather than a coach who plays his starters into the ground even though they are injured.

[FrontRowSun]

Marbury's father dies during Knicks' loss to Suns

Associated Press


NEW YORK -- Don Marbury, the father of Knicks point guard Stephon Marbury, died Sunday night during the team's home loss to the Phoenix Suns.

Team spokesman Jonathan Supranowitz said no other information was immediately available, other than that Don Marbury wasn't at Madison Square Garden when he died. Stephon Marbury was escorted out the arena by security shortly after the game.

The New York Times reported on its Web site, citing an unidentified person, that Marbury's father had chest pains when he was taken from the arena.

Stephon Marbury, whose aunt recently died, scored 21 points Sunday night.

He dressed quickly without speaking to reporters, except for yelling, "Jesus, that's how!" back into the locker room as he left.

Marbury has endured a tough first month of the season. His aunt, on his mother's side of the family, died Nov. 19. Marbury said at the time he also had another recent death in his family.

He also left the team during a road trip when coach Isiah Thomas was considering removing him from the starting lineup. A New York native, Marbury has heard boos ever since then at Madison Square Garden.

It was not known if Marbury would play Wednesday night when the Knicks visit the New Jersey Nets.

Don and Mabel Marbury had six other children, four sons and two daughters.

Sorry Steph... may he rest in peace.

[zara_drummer]

Sweet!! let fire the coach of a 14 and 4 team thats had a chance to go to the finals the last three years...BLOW IT UP!!! I'm down!!!

Lets not forget this team is totally built to be a running system, and the people ACTUALLY make te decisions are fond of Mike...otherwise I'm sure they'd take head to your demands...lol

Player fatigue had nothing to do with our exit in the playoffs last year....You know as well as I do.

[Mori_Chu]

The death of Stephon Marbury’s father, Donald Sr., who suffered an apparent heart attack at the Garden while watching the Phoenix game last night, threw the Knicks into a legitimate state of despair beyond the wins and losses.

Wow. He literally died because the Knicks suck so much. That kind of says it all.

As for Amare, I'm kind of tired of him and wish we could move him. But I don't know what we could get for him that would keep us as contenders, and I don't think I'd push for a trade just for its own sake. I really hated those Sheed and Camby deals the Sports Guy suggested.

Maybe we could do something with a younger team like the Bulls, Portland, Seattle, etc.?

[FrontRowSun]

Sweet!! let fire the coach of a 14 and 4 team thats had a chance to go to the finals the last three years...BLOW IT UP!!! I'm down!!!

Lets not forget this team is totally built to be a running system, and the people ACTUALLY make te decisions are fond of Mike...otherwise I'm sure they'd take head to your demands...lol

Player fatigue had nothing to do with our exit in the playoffs last year....You know as well as I do.

Fatigue? No.... We only made it to the 2nd round last year. I will maintain that we might have won game 5 against the Spurs if the players on the court were more comfortable in the roles they were playing that night. Instead of a season of riding the pine, it probably would have been a good idea to prepare our team for the slight possibility that one or two of our 7-deep rotation might not be around for a game or two when it matters most. Like JJ and Raja in past playoff seasons.

Our coach prepares for nothing, and does the same thing each year. Plays a thin rotation, keeps them in even if it is a blowout, and gets even more stubborn when the playoffs start.

Are you telling me that you would rather trade Amare than find a more traditional coach, not in style, but in coaching philosophy? The man claims Raja should play with a back injury? Or that Nash playing for a month with a bad elbow that no one knows about is excusable? How about Hill's minutes?

[FrontRowSun]

Wow. He literally died because the Knicks suck so much. That kind of says it all.

As for Amare, I'm kind of tired of him and wish we could move him. But I don't know what we could get for him that would keep us as contenders, and I don't think I'd push for a trade just for its own sake. I really hated those Sheed and Camby deals the Sports Guy suggested.

Maybe we could do something with a younger team like the Bulls, Portland, Seattle, etc.?

We could have had Kevin Garnett in the offseason... Obviously, Amare is going nowhere.

[FrontRowSun]

I really sound like a broken record. Sorry guys.


I just am really convinced that Dantoni and his rotations are going to close our window for a title.

Going to work now.

[zara_drummer]

I never said we should trade Amare...And I dont think we should regardless.

If said bench players could have proven anything better than keeping a seat warm and collecting a paycheck than I'd say hell yes play them!!

I think our lack of depth hurt us the most last year because there were players on this team that had no business being in the league...The year before I believe Raja got hurt due to fatigue, but Barbosa and House disappeared for a good part of the post season, and were regulars off the bench! The year before Q completely disappeared for the the entire post season...

Lets look at the reality of it...

Your nuts if you think that Pat Burke and Sean Marks, or Jumaine Jones were adequate replacements for Amare and Boris...even if they did get regular minutes, Amare and Boris are both pretty special players in their own way. Not something you can really replace with any of the bench depth we had last year.

[SwingMan]

Just to note, we didn't lose round 2 due to fatigue - we lost game 5 due to fatigue.....

[zara_drummer]

Agreed Swing...The only time I think fatigue bit us was when Raja got hurt as a result of fatigue...

[Squeege63]

Agreed Swing...The only time I think fatigue bit us was when Raja got hurt as a result of fatigue...

I would also say that Fatigue bit us in Game 6 last year, since all our regulars, sans Amare and Diw were run into the ground from Game 5 so we didn't have the energy to keep up.

[FurlanFufi]

Stoudemire twice had words with teammates during Sunday's third quarter. First, he argued on the court with Raja Bell about a play on which Stoudemire held the ball too long and had it stolen by Knicks forward Quentin Richardson.

That play was ridiculous. He spun around 3 times looking like frankenstein holding the ball over his head. Im beginning to think, more and more, that Amare may be put on the trading block and moved eventually, especially if the right deal comes along. He may be much better suited having a team built around him where hes the main guy getting shots, as opposed to being just another guy in a team oriented offense. And i hate the idea of it.

Isiahs just trying to hold back Nash. Hes a scumbag still trying to hold onto whatever legacy he has left. He took a shot at Nash last year when he played at the garden and did the same this year.

Skinner absolutely needs to be a part of the rotation where hes part of the sub patterns and not just a last resort against bigger teams. We're more of a halfcourt team than ever and Skinner fits the bill defensively and athletically.

I noticed last night that we're allowing Hill to step in for jumpers instead of having him out to the 3pt line. The spacing isnt nearly as great as it would be if he were able to step out further, but hes obviously much more effective from 16-18ft. Still, i'd like to see him running to the corner on the break and nailing the corner 3 when its there.


Everytime I think we could have KG instead of Amare I could see the team wearing a ring....

[mmpetric]

The NBA ad campaign 'Where Amazing Happens' uses background music by Carly Comando. Here's a url: http://www.lightboxing.org/2007/03/21/carly-comandos-everyday/ . I tried to find the original post where this was requested but the search didn't find anything.


I like the track... its good.


go suns.

Thanks a lot! I was the young malchik who requested the artist in the first post.

[OE]

I think I'd have to be in favor of moving Amare. We're not going to change this system, and neither does this system suit his strengths nor does he seem to be able to suit the system. He's slow. He hits the outside J and he blocks shots, but he fouls at an astounding rate for someone who can't stop his man. Looking around the league, I see no one who can do for us offensively what Amare does, but I can see about a dozen guys who are defensively (in some cases vastly) superior.

Cousy didn't need Wilt. He needed Russell.

For a while, I've been in favor of changing the style of the team to suit Amare. I think it's important, however, that we as a team and as a city develop and nurture a style of play that is unique, one that may continue to be defined by us. I think that a high-energy defensive center might be exactly what's necessary to perfect this system. Diaw, despite his myriad difficulties, has shown that he can be a 4 in this offense - when Amare's not around.

Quick question: Who would bet against this team winning by 20 the first game we play after trading Amare?

[zara_drummer]

Amare is not slow...He's always right there with Nash and Marion on the break.

And wasnt everyone clamoring a few years ago that if Amare could develope a consistant J that he would be pretty close to a complete player?? So what if he's not dunking like he used to, 2 points is 2 points. He still gets in the lane and finishes as good as anyone...even gets alot of "and 1's" with his finesse game.

He's still working his way back into shape after the scope...He posted 28 against 2 of the bigger guys in the league last nite.

His defensive woe's are a pain in the ass, but this is something that can be fixed...He sat for almost an entire season save for 3 games...He's still learning how to play and now learning how to play post surgery.

People need to calm down...We didnt get KG ok...move on...

[darrkin]

ughh....we are not trading amare anyway this year folks, so why bring it up....if we dont win title this year, who knows what will happen next year, but lets stay in the present and enjoy it. If there is a weak link right now with this team its Doris playing softer than ever. Notice how much better we look lately with him not in. I love giving Skinner some of his minutes till he gets his ass going. He shouldnt be allowed to pass anymore when he gets into paint. Whats this Amare is slow crap about anyway, I get annoyed with amare sometimes also, but hes not slow at all, i think hes continuing almost on a daily basis to look more and more explosive. Assuming he has no more setbacks I think hes in for another huge year.

[wpmiller42]

Personally, I think we're right where we need to be and I'm pretty happy about that. That being said, does anyone else think it would be cool to just see what would happen with Skinner in the starting lineup?

I just see so many positives. Amare would be at the 4 and I think less prone to foul trouble, and Shawn would be at the 3 which I think might cost him some rebounds, but allow him to get out on the break better. Now we could put Hill, Raja, or LB at the 2 spot.

Assumming Bell starts, we have Hill and LB coming off the bench with Boris backing up the 3 -5 spot. The way Grant was distributing last night, it would be awesome to run him out there with Leandro and Boris.

I don't know. To me, there isn't too much negative about it. Skinner is not an offensive liability except at the free throw line, and I think it would really improve our rebounding at the beginning of the game, as well as keep Amare out of foul trouble.

Again, I really like our team and I'm not advocating personnel changes, but I think it would be cool just to try this out in the beginning of the season and see what happens.

[Miamisun]

Cousy didn't need Wilt. He needed Russell.



But what would Cousey have done WITH Wilt? We will never know, but I imagine Wilt instead of Russell would have yielded just as many banners.

[EDC]

Although he should not be in shouting matches with his team mates, Amare shouldn't be traded. Coaches are fired for players as talented as him.

I would much rather fire Dantoni, and mold a half court offense around the talent we have. Focusing on Amare's strengths.


Get me a coach that knows how to play 9 to 10 a night in October and November rather than a coach who plays his starters into the ground even though they are injured.


I always wonder what Amare would look like now if he was being coached by Pops. I just don't understand why Coach D doesn't try to get Amare more opportunities with his back to the basket at the block. He isn't very good at throwing out of the double team atm but that would change with practice. Instead we have Amare working on a 3pt shot and that is definitely due to how Coach D approaches the team.

I think the fans just aren't super excited cause we have seen this all before. We always do well in the regular season. Then we go into a series vs the Spurs and their defense destroys us. I believe we have the talent to win. I just think we have to play superb to overcome our lack of coaching.

It is amazing that every time they zoom in on the huddle during a timeout Coach D is saying something like "come on guys we just need to try harder". The only thing Coach D has done for the Suns is allow Nash to run everything. Until we can create easy shots in a half court set without Nash in the game we are going to be in trouble.

[v9]

What's up with beating down Amare when he's obviously not 100%?

Yeah, trade him when his stock is down :)

[Coop]

For those of you who think its time to move Amare, you will eat your words come playoff time when the pace slows down and teams like San Antonio, and Detroit make us use a half court set. Amare is huge against these teams for this very reason.

Playoff time he is a beast.

[v9]

Now, for something more realistic:

Trade Diaw, Banks and whatever contract filler we can muster (Marks, Pike) for David Lee and Marbury. Lee would fit in great here. Starbury would be useful for 25mpg, playing the role originally envisioned for Banks (kinda like Van Exel when he played for the Mavs). Besides, Marbs has a shorter contract than Boris (who I am finally starting to give up on).

Then again, Barbosa's a better version of Marbury. Would the two be able to play together with Grant Hill playing point-forward?

[sehan]

Yeah, if we trade Amare, we will win the next 20 games followed by a needless drag out series against LA in round 1 and a prompt second round exit at the hands of Dallas or SA. We are not going to win the ring without an inside presence and Diaw aint it.

Bad knee or not, you do not trade players with his kind of work ethic and hunger. I think Amare will find ways to be effective even if he can't jump.

And I saw the particular play in question where Amare held the ball. Bell and everyone else was standing around the 3 point line with defenders all staying home. No movement - just watching him. Who was he suppose to pass it to? Bell with a defender in his face? Only one moving was Barb and only thing he was doing was moving side to side (about 3 feet) right in front of Amare. In fact, that is what allowed the defender to drift down to Amare and swipe at the ball. Yeah, Amare didn't pass, but our spacing and energy was horrible. If barbs would have run to the weak side, that would have left Amare one on one to blow by his defender and score.

Don't know why in our system it is ok for perimeter players like Hill and Barb to go one on one dribbling around for a pull up J and it is not ok for Amare to do that. It is not like he has a lower shooting percentage then the jump shooters. For a big man and a star, I think Amare is being very accommodating for the sake of team success. Any other star big man would have been crying for the ball a lot more openly.

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interesting to see Amare's attempts vs. other star big mans around the league. I for one am very surprised and confused with why the coach is ok with Barbs taking more shots than Amare.

[jkalldaway]

No offense but this is the dumbest post I have ever read here. Amare is not slow by any means. In fact, he is one of the fastest big men in the game. He has the ability to take over games and he averages about 26 and 11 when he gets the minutes. He has been fouling at a great rate due to him being out of shape but look at his minutes the past few games, they are going up as he is fouling less. In fact, it was only yesterday that it was reported that he has his "game legs" under him. So settle down. I would bet against us winning by 20 the first game after a hypothetical Amare trade, and at the same time I will guarantee no championship for this team without him

[jkalldaway]

Amare is not slow...He's always right there with Nash and Marion on the break.

And wasnt everyone clamoring a few years ago that if Amare could develope a consistant J that he would be pretty close to a complete player?? So what if he's not dunking like he used to, 2 points is 2 points. He still gets in the lane and finishes as good as anyone...even gets alot of "and 1's" with his finesse game.

He's still working his way back into shape after the scope...He posted 28 against 2 of the bigger guys in the league last nite.

His defensive woe's are a pain in the ass, but this is something that can be fixed...He sat for almost an entire season save for 3 games...He's still learning how to play and now learning how to play post surgery.

People need to calm down...We didnt get KG ok...move on...

People forget, KG wanted to come here to play WITH AMARE, not Nash, not Bell, not Marion but WITH AMARE. He backed off of demanding a trade here once he heard Amare would be involved.

[MTSunsFan]

I agree that KG wanted to play here w/ Amare, but I thought the deal dematerialized once Shawn made it clear that he wouldn't play for Boston...

[jkalldaway]

No. The Suns originally tried to deal Shawn. Once that didn't work out they were trying to deal Amare for KG no matter what management came out and said. That made KG cool off on the whole idea.

[Phoenix219]

I understand why KG wanted to play WITH Amare, but I still don't see how in the world he could possibly have something against playing with Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Shawn Marion, Leandro Barbosa and Raja Bell. Amare or not, KG makes us champions, and I think he, Shawn, Skinner and Boris would compliment each other nicely.

[jkalldaway]

I understand why KG wanted to play WITH Amare, but I still don't see how in the world he could possibly have something against playing with Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Shawn Marion, Leandro Barbosa and Raja Bell. Amare or not, KG makes us champions, and I think he, Shawn, Skinner and Boris would compliment each other nicely.

It wasn't that he had anything against those players. I was just pointing out that Amare was the guy he wanted to come here to play with. KG explicitly stated that he has nothing against Marion but he wanted to come here and play with "the big fella." It was KG that stepped back and thought about other options once the Suns were looking to move Amare for him. If you don't believe me just look it up in last month's slam magazine.

[DePastino]

The NBA ad campaign 'Where Amazing Happens' uses background music by Carly Comando. Here's a url: http://www.lightboxing.org/2007/03/21/carly-comandos-everyday/ . I tried to find the original post where this was requested but the search didn't find anything.


I like the track... its good.


go suns.

If I hear that music one more time, I think I'll barf. It's barely December and I already loathe those spots. They play them entirely too many times during the course of a single game.

Last year it was "you're not a fool". Now, for the second year in a row, I'll have to change the channel during timeouts lest I go stark raving mad.

[Phoenix219]

I'm just saying, I don't understand the decision making process, of why playing with the rest of our current team, given our success and style, wouldn't appeal to him just as much. With the amount of hunger and fire he is playing with in Boston, theres no doubt in my mind that we would be champions this year. Its not like Boston has any more depth or size than us, anyways...

[duck44]

Now, for something more realistic:

Trade Diaw, Banks and whatever contract filler we can muster (Marks, Pike) for David Lee and Marbury. Lee would fit in great here. Starbury would be useful for 25mpg, playing the role originally envisioned for Banks (kinda like Van Exel when he played for the Mavs). Besides, Marbs has a shorter contract than Boris (who I am finally starting to give up on).

Then again, Barbosa's a better version of Marbury. Would the two be able to play together with Grant Hill playing point-forward?

Marbury back on this team?

Jesus Christ that`s the worst idea I`ve ever heard!

[Superbone]

If I hear that music one more time, I think I'll barf. It's barely December and I already loathe those spots. They play them entirely too many times during the course of a single game.

Last year it was "you're not a fool". Now, for the second year in a row, I'll have to change the channel during timeouts lest I go stark raving mad.

The DVR is your friend.

[SunsFan4Life]

What Did Banks do or say to warrant Amare snapping at him anyways?

Saw the Raja Play, Raja was right Amare held the ball for about 10 seconds...

[SunsFan4Life]

THE NBA:

Where "Eric Piakowski getting meaningfull playing time" happens!

haha

[illmatic]

Haha-Anyone watch the injury of Duncan on nba.com yesterday? It was funny because after they showed the highlight, they flashed to a black screen and it said "The NBA" "Where amazing happens" I got a crack outta that.

[SunsJunkee]

Yeah, if we trade Amare, we will win the next 20 games followed by a needless drag out series against LA in round 1 and a prompt second round exit at the hands of Dallas or SA. We are not going to win the ring without an inside presence and Diaw aint it.

Bad knee or not, you do not trade players with his kind of work ethic and hunger. I think Amare will find ways to be effective even if he can't jump.

And I saw the particular play in question where Amare held the ball. Bell and everyone else was standing around the 3 point line with defenders all staying home. No movement - just watching him. Who was he suppose to pass it to? Bell with a defender in his face? Only one moving was Barb and only thing he was doing was moving side to side (about 3 feet) right in front of Amare. In fact, that is what allowed the defender to drift down to Amare and swipe at the ball. Yeah, Amare didn't pass, but our spacing and energy was horrible. If barbs would have run to the weak side, that would have left Amare one on one to blow by his defender and score.

Don't know why in our system it is ok for perimeter players like Hill and Barb to go one on one dribbling around for a pull up J and it is not ok for Amare to do that. It is not like he has a lower shooting percentage then the jump shooters. For a big man and a star, I think Amare is being very accommodating for the sake of team success. Any other star big man would have been crying for the ball a lot more openly.

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interesting to see Amare's attempts vs. other star big mans around the league. I for one am very surprised and confused with why the coach is ok with Barbs taking more shots than Amare.

Exactly...from how it appeared on TV the confrontation was Bell scolding Amare for not getting rid of the ball, when it was clear to me that Amare was pivoting back and forth trying to pass the ball out to somebody while Raja stood like a statue on the 3 point line with his man in between them. It didn't even seem like that big a deal at all, the problem was after Amare saw that nobody was going to move towards the ball, he tried to make a move late and ended up getting stripped from behind my Raja's man.

All this lamenting over us not trading Amare has become downright retarded, I swear we have the most disfunctional, fickle fans in the NBA. Probably the best homegrown big man the Suns have ever had, one of the premiere playoff performers who consistantly elevates his game when it matters. A guy who is extremely talented but because his talents do not fit into your little box of what an ideal center should be you want to trade him. I have consistantly heard his defense bashed this year and rightfully so, but I don't think he is even close to being our worst defender (see Nash and Barbosa)

What about he fact that he is playing out of position so that our team can get by playing a small ball or skill ball or whatever D'Antoni calls it. Amare is cleary giving the ball up more this year to teamates than any year in the past when he led the league in FG%. He routinely passes the ball out to teamates on the perimeter for lower percetnage shots, but he still holds the ball too much? We have members of this board of so called fans that would gladly give him up for Marcus Camby, or Ben Wallace, or Rasheed Wallace. Un freakin believable, until KG wins a title in Boston I am not regretting a damn thing. He hasn't proved anything, he has a supporting cast, and theres no more making excuses for KG when he doesn't step up in the clutch and elevate his team. Some of you people with short memories need to check yourselves.

[SunsJunkee]

That commercial makes me want to play ad lib. When it shows the picture of Nashes mashed nose and Tim Duncan and Co celebrating all I can think of is how the slogan "Where shit happens" would be much more appropriate. Somebody needs to do a remix of that commercial, highlighting Cheapshot Bob, David Stern, and Daughnahy, showing what the NBA is really about.

[Steveskg]

Some of you people with short memories need to check yourselves.

Before we wreck ourselves.

[BigLewy]

On that Amare play, everyone was just standing there and not moving. I can see why Raja was mad for Amare just going to the rack, but he really had no choice. Any pass he made would have put the team in a worse spot with a low shot clock. I doubt it is anything major.

[ShelC]

Shit or get of the pot. U cant hold the ball for 8-10 seconds spinning around. Pass it out and re-establish position in the post, kick it out for a reset, or attack the defender. By holding it, youre just wasting shotclock seconds and allowing the defense to settle in and wait, rather than react quickly. If Amare makes his move right away, maybe Q doesnt rake down quickly enough to get that strip.

As for Marbury on the team, u guys have to understand hes not the same person he was when he played in Phx. For the past 4 years, hes been given everything hes wanted to the detriment of the organization. Its like Pandora's box. You cant really go back to being humble and gracious and doing things the way other people want you to. And im not just talking about on the court stuff, but off the court as well as far as community responsibilities, appearances, public relations...And no way will he take a backseat to anyone or be told what to do at this point.

And on top of all that, theres no way he'd fit in here! Hes not, nor has he ever been, a running point guard able to push the tempo of a game. His instinct is to trot up court and set up for a halfcourt game. MikeD knew this which is why he was traded. Look how much success Banks' has had here and others have mentioned how much his game reminds of Marbury.

Cant let personal feelings about a former player affect your judgement.

[FurlanFufi]

Exactly...from how it appeared on TV the confrontation was Bell scolding Amare for not getting rid of the ball, when it was clear to me that Amare was pivoting back and forth trying to pass the ball out to somebody while Raja stood like a statue on the 3 point line with his man in between them. It didn't even seem like that big a deal at all, the problem was after Amare saw that nobody was going to move towards the ball, he tried to make a move late and ended up getting stripped from behind my Raja's man.

All this lamenting over us not trading Amare has become downright retarded, I swear we have the most disfunctional, fickle fans in the NBA. Probably the best homegrown big man the Suns have ever had, one of the premiere playoff performers who consistantly elevates his game when it matters. A guy who is extremely talented but because his talents do not fit into your little box of what an ideal center should be you want to trade him. I have consistantly heard his defense bashed this year and rightfully so, but I don't think he is even close to being our worst defender (see Nash and Barbosa)

What about he fact that he is playing out of position so that our team can get by playing a small ball or skill ball or whatever D'Antoni calls it. Amare is cleary giving the ball up more this year to teamates than any year in the past when he led the league in FG%. He routinely passes the ball out to teamates on the perimeter for lower percetnage shots, but he still holds the ball too much? We have members of this board of so called fans that would gladly give him up for Marcus Camby, or Ben Wallace, or Rasheed Wallace. Un freakin believable, until KG wins a title in Boston I am not regretting a damn thing. He hasn't proved anything, he has a supporting cast, and theres no more making excuses for KG when he doesn't step up in the clutch and elevate his team. Some of you people with short memories need to check yourselves.


Constantly elevates his game when it matters? Yeah, because of that we have a ring! He stopped everyone, but mainly Duncan!
I've never seen Amare playing good defense, but this season, it just seems like he's a rookie all over again!
He's fouling at barb's 1st year rate! A broken chair could do more for our defense!

KG?
Well...he have a team by now....and HE'S FUCKING WINNING!
Let's see, which one have the better suppporting cast...

Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins ( with Posey, Glen Davis - who's that, by the way? , Eddie House, Scalabrine...)

Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, Steve Nash, Grant Hill (with LB, Diaw, Skinner)

C'mon, we still have the better team even if we count PIKE off the bench!

And KG don't elevate his team? Did you watch the guy play at least one time in your life?
I don't see Amare elevating anyone or the team getting better because of him....Nash does it, not Amare!

[INFORMER]

I swear we have the most disfunctional, fickle fans in the NBA.

I don't think that's even close to being true.

[sunsdotcom]

Agreed. My biggest fear in trading Amare is that we're going to have nothing left to build around when this current window closes.

the current window (nash) coincides with the amare window (knee).

[INFORMER]

Im beginning to think, more and more, that Amare may be put on the trading block and moved eventually, especially if the right deal comes along.

Shel, come on . . .


Marbury back on this team?

Jesus Christ that`s the worst idea I`ve ever heard!

I'd do it if it brought David Lee here and sent out Banks and Diaw. Steph only has one and a half years left on his contract. Unfortunately, the only way to make that deal work is to include Marion and/or Amare, which is just silly.

[fixxxer]

Hmm, interesting debate. In retrospect, if the KG for Amare was in fact on the table, would you have taken it? I was on the fence, but I think I would've just about pulled that one. Now, I love Amare as much as (probably more) than the next Suns fan, but I tried to make the most objective decision possible. If memory serves me right, this is (an approximation of) how I had it:

KG's age vs Amare's knees - Slight to medium edge to Amare. (Factored in: Nash's championship window approximately mirroring KG's.)

Offense - Push. Amare's the better pure scorer. KG's the better passer. Amare has a better feel for the basket in the paint. KG has better offensive fundamentals.

Defense and rebounding - Big edge to KG. I don't think this one is even debateable.

Intangiables - Again, big edge to KG. As a leader, the only guy in the NBA at par with Nash. Inspires awe and fear in friend and foe alike. At this point, Amare's a little ego-driven and slightly immature.

So yea, I probably would've sacrificed Amare on the KG altar. However, am not too torn up about "getting to keep" Amare. :mrgreen: Knee problems and defensive issues taken into consideration, he's still among the best players in the league. Athletically, despite not being the Brutal and Savage God of the 2004-05 season, his offensive production is up there with his best years. Also, his rebounding and shotblocking numbers are better than ever.

At this point, I don't think he'll ever be a DPOY candidate or anything, but as the season wears on and his knee gets closer to 100%, he should be able to get those fouls under control and not hurt us on the defensive end. He IS showing signs of being more active on the defensive end. Hopefully, some of his "unforced errors" will diminish as the season wears on.

The point of all those (apparently) disparate ramblings? We're lucky to have a player like Amare, flaws and all.

[fixxxer]

Also, what is/are your take(s) on Boris frickin' Diaw? He CAN play. He DOESN'T. What the **** is wrong with the dude? Is it mental? Does he not care? Aaaarrrrggggghhhhh!!!!!

[jkalldaway]

Constantly elevates his game when it matters? Yeah, because of that we have a ring! He stopped everyone, but mainly Duncan!
I've never seen Amare playing good defense, but this season, it just seems like he's a rookie all over again!
He's fouling at barb's 1st year rate! A broken chair could do more for our defense!

KG?
Well...he have a team by now....and HE'S FUCKING WINNING!
Let's see, which one have the better suppporting cast...

Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins ( with Posey, Glen Davis - who's that, by the way? , Eddie House, Scalabrine...)

Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, Steve Nash, Grant Hill (with LB, Diaw, Skinner)

C'mon, we still have the better team even if we count PIKE off the bench!

And KG don't elevate his team? Did you watch the guy play at least one time in your life?
I don't see Amare elevating anyone or the team getting better because of him....Nash does it, not Amare!


Again with the ridiculousness! Amare is one guy that you can say does NOT disappear in the playoffs (averages 25.4 and 10.6 for his career in the post season). He and Nash consistently bring it when it matters. Can you say that about Marion? How about LB (a player I love)? We may not have a ring (yet) but without Amare we wouldn't have been as close, I can tell you that, and there is not a basketball mind out there that would disagree. You guys are acting like Amare didn't just recover from knee surgery. The guy is playing better with each passing game as he gets in game shape. It can't be easy having to guard Yao (twice), Howard (twice), among others when you are not in game shape. Having to guard another team's primary big, a player that will get multiple touches, will of course lead to fouls if you are not up to game speed. All the while Amare is averaging 19 and 9 and that average is consistently climbing. Amare is an ass, and you know what, I don't care. I would probably be unhappy to if I knew I could score anytime I wanted yet I wasn't getting the ball often. I love Nash, probably more than anyone, but why is it we don't harp on his flaws? He has at times forced the issue and his turnovers have been atrocious this year yet no one speaks of dealing him. Has he brought us a ring? No. I am in no way saying that we would be closer without him(we would be in the lottery) but am merely pointing out the hypocrisy that some of you show. I can recall multiple times when Nash would yell at Boris last year but no one got on him about it. KG is an aging vet, a player that plays with a lot of heart and desire...he is also playing in the east. He has played a soft schedule and is on a brand new team. I in no way see that team beating a healthy Suns/Spurs/Mavs team in a seven-game series. Get off of Amare's back. He has delivered time and time again and there is no reason to think that this season will be any different.

[MEE]

Personally, I don't feel that our problems can be narrowed down to just one issue.

First, I have had problems with Coach D's rotations (or lack thereof) for some time now. He definitely limits our abilities when the ol' tried and true rotation isn't working and he refuses to play our rookies and substitute. For the past few seasons, this has been a pet peeve, so I find it rather difficult to believe that he is all of a sudden seeing the light. Me thinks that perhaps we can attribute his sudden change of view to his having a little GM in his ear, nudging him firmly towards playing Skinner and whatnot. I find this a much more believable scenario.

Second, though we have Amare, who has a solid work ethic and is supposed to be a major part of our nucleus, his behaving like a primadonna is not indicative of being a mature and responsible leader. If he is creating conflict with his teammates, if he is preventing the team from gelling like it should or even slowing that process down, then perhaps he hasn't really earned the right to be a co-captain. When I read that he had been given that position I thought at the time that it seemed more like a bone being tossed to placate him rather than a position he had earned. I don't know, maybe it's just me that feels that way, wouldn't be the first time ... :wink:

Third, our guys playing with injuries worries the heck out of me. It takes so much longer to heal something like that when you are constantly using it/re-aggravating it. I realize that under most circumstances the injured player knows best whether he should be on the court or not. But we have guys who are warriors down to their souls (Steve and Raja are first to come to mind) and they will play until they absolutely can't anymore because of their dedication possibly to the point of being injured for much longer. There should be a point where coach and /or the trainers say, "No you don't ..." and coach sits them for a time. The thing is, I sometimes feel like everyone's so blinded by the thought of a ring that they can't see anything else.

But, even after finding fault, I am not discouraged. I think we have a tendency to start slow and build momentum. As such, we are on par as far as season starts and as long as the team can continue to coalesce, coach continues to experiment with rotations, and our guys can get healthy, we should be fine. I'll watch and wait until the All Star break and then I'll decide whether to worry or not.

Anybody want a puppy? :lol:

[desertcoast]

I can recall multiple times when Nash would yell at Boris last year but no one got on him about it.

a) Amare is a hothead
b) Nash is a born diplomat
c) I'm sure Boris deserved it :)
d) I wish Nash *and* Amare would yell at Boris again...

[jkalldaway]

a) Amare is a hothead
b) Nash is a born diplomat
c) I'm sure Boris deserved it :)
d) I wish Nash *and* Amare would yell at Boris again...

a) And Raja is not a hothead?
b)Agreed, but he is the only one on the team and it doesn't excuse bad play.
c)How do you know Raja or Marcus didn't deserve it? Is it possible Raja blew the play?
d)I wish the team would quit putting estrogen in his Gatorade.

[jkalldaway]

Personally, I don't feel that our problems can be narrowed down to just one issue.

First, I have had problems with Coach D's rotations (or lack thereof) for some time now. He definitely limits our abilities when the ol' tried and true rotation isn't working and he refuses to play our rookies and substitute. For the past few seasons, this has been a pet peeve, so I find it rather difficult to believe that he is all of a sudden seeing the light. Me thinks that perhaps we can attribute his sudden change of view to his having a little GM in his ear, nudging him firmly towards playing Skinner and whatnot. I find this a much more believable scenario.

Second, though we have Amare, who has a solid work ethic and is supposed to be a major part of our nucleus, his behaving like a primadonna is not indicative of being a mature and responsible leader. If he is creating conflict with his teammates, if he is preventing the team from gelling like it should or even slowing that process down, then perhaps he hasn't really earned the right to be a co-captain. When I read that he had been given that position I thought at the time that it seemed more like a bone being tossed to placate him rather than a position he had earned. I don't know, maybe it's just me that feels that way, wouldn't be the first time ... :wink:

Third, our guys playing with injuries worries the heck out of me. It takes so much longer to heal something like that when you are constantly using it/re-aggravating it. I realize that under most circumstances the injured player knows best whether he should be on the court or not. But we have guys who are warriors down to their souls (Steve and Raja are first to come to mind) and they will play until they absolutely can't anymore because of their dedication possibly to the point of being injured for much longer. There should be a point where coach and /or the trainers say, "No you don't ..." and coach sits them for a time. The thing is, I sometimes feel like everyone's so blinded by the thought of a ring that they can't see anything else.

But, even after finding fault, I am not discouraged. I think we have a tendency to start slow and build momentum. As such, we are on par as far as season starts and as long as the team can continue to coalesce, coach continues to experiment with rotations, and our guys can get healthy, we should be fine. I'll watch and wait until the All Star break and then I'll decide whether to worry or not.

Anybody want a puppy? :lol:

Please tell me you aren't basing your primadonna comments on the one issue the Coro brought up. Is it really Amare's fault that the offense isn't at its peak? He barely got the ball in the first half and when he got it in the second half he either scored, assisted, got fouled, or on two instances held it too long.

[CharlesV]

He may be a co-captain, but he's a LONG way beneath Nash in the pecking order for this team. Nash was the one that came and sat in-between Amare and Banks last night to shut up their chirping.

I dont think anyone can debate that. Steve is a different kind of guy to begin with, and when you figure that he has almost a decade more experience than Amare, of course he will be the more mature of the two.

.

This nonsense about trading Amare has got to stop. To quote Rick Pitino, Kevin Garnett is not walking through that door. Amare is not being traded, and if he is, we might as well start planning on paying attention to the D-Backs season early, since the Suns will get get bounced in the first round.

Can't we go back to the good old days and start talking about trading Marion again? I think Shareef Abdur Raheem may be available.

[CharlesV]

...and on the Marbury note. I feel for him, I am not sure how close he was to his dad, but I am sure he is hurting right now.

I really did enjoy watching that 02-03 Suns team. Marbury played his heart out that year.

[SunsJunkee]

I don't think that's even close to being true.


Well you wouldn't know any better with all the knee jerking and doom and gloom that goes around in these forums. It seems like all the negativity starts with a few posters and the panick starts spreading.

[JediSkywalker]

...and on the Marbury note. I feel for him, I am not sure how close he was to his dad, but I am sure he is hurting right now.

I really did enjoy watching that 02-03 Suns team. Marbury played his heart out that year.

He must be hurting a lot, even if he was not close to his Dad. It's biological. My sympathies to him.

[SunsJunkee]

Marbs despite being a bit of a crackpot in recent years, has a really good heart. I genuinely feel for the guy after this terrible string of bad luck.

[SunsJunkee]

Constantly elevates his game when it matters? Yeah, because of that we have a ring! He stopped everyone, but mainly Duncan!
I've never seen Amare playing good defense, but this season, it just seems like he's a rookie all over again!
He's fouling at barb's 1st year rate! A broken chair could do more for our defense!

KG?
Well...he have a team by now....and HE'S FUCKING WINNING!
Let's see, which one have the better suppporting cast...

Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins ( with Posey, Glen Davis - who's that, by the way? , Eddie House, Scalabrine...)

Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, Steve Nash, Grant Hill (with LB, Diaw, Skinner)

C'mon, we still have the better team even if we count PIKE off the bench!

And KG don't elevate his team? Did you watch the guy play at least one time in your life?
I don't see Amare elevating anyone or the team getting better because of him....Nash does it, not Amare!

No disrespect but that's one of the stupidest thing I have ever heard. For starters Amare is not the distributor, it is not his job to, and he does not have the ball in his hands 90% of the game. The offense does not run through him. The offense isn't predicated on him like it is for KG, Duncan, Yao, and even now Dwight Howard? But when Amare is feeling it on offense you bet he takes pressure off of everybody, because the entire defense is geared to stopping him. He gets the other teams big men in foul trouble. Which leads to open looks, and less attention on everybody else.

I have seen KG plenty he's the guy that's been sitting at home when the playoffs started for the last several years. He's the guy that when he did make the playoffs he was too busy deferring to Wally Alpahbits, Nesterovic, and Troy Hutson during critical moments of playoff games to will his team to victory. And before you say that he hasn't had the talent, he's had enough talent to get further than he has, and he's being paid enough that he should have been able to sneak his teams into the playoffs a few years even as a lower seed. As for Amare he has had no fear since his first playoff series his rookie year. In fact I think he even won a game in San Antonio by himself the year we avoided the sweep. You might remember the incredible block on Duncan when his hand was over the cylinder, and then he snagged the loose ball on the games final play to secure the win. Averaged a ton of points agains the premier team defense and defender in the NBA. When is the last time KG had such a signature playoff performance?....

[v9]

I'd do it if it brought David Lee here and sent out Banks and Diaw. Steph only has one and a half years left on his contract. Unfortunately, the only way to make that deal work is to include Marion and/or Amare, which is just silly.

This IS Isiah Thomas we're talking about. Maybe he'll do it in a last-gasp attempt at saving his job.


As for Marbury on the team, u guys have to understand hes not the same person he was when he played in Phx. For the past 4 years, hes been given everything hes wanted to the detriment of the organization. Its like Pandora's box. You cant really go back to being humble and gracious and doing things the way other people want you to. And im not just talking about on the court stuff, but off the court as well as far as community responsibilities, appearances, public relations...And no way will he take a backseat to anyone or be told what to do at this point.

And on top of all that, theres no way he'd fit in here! Hes not, nor has he ever been, a running point guard able to push the tempo of a game. His instinct is to trot up court and set up for a halfcourt game. MikeD knew this which is why he was traded. Look how much success Banks' has had here and others have mentioned how much his game reminds of Marbury.

Well said - but the point remains that Marbs has a short contract. IIRC, Nick Van Exel had the same kind of shitty attitude and half-court game - and ended up doing pretty well as Steve Nash's backup.

[OE]

Well said - but the point remains that Marbs has a short contract. IIRC, Nick Van Exel had the same kind of shitty attitude and half-court game - and ended up doing pretty well as Steve Nash's backup.

Van Exel was still a very good shooter, which is what we would need out of a Nash back-up. Marbs's shot is inconsistent; he's dramatic; his ability to penetrate is really his singular talent. Barbosa is superior on every dimension.

...

You guys are right. I jumped the gun on the Amare trade stuff. I still think we have reason to be concerned in that we do not have a true center on the roster (which I still think would be incredibly benefitial) and redundant talent on the front line (Diaw and Amare). Most importantly, Amare's been noticeably slower so far this year than in years past, and this seems to be stemming from his knee issues (3 years, 3 surgeries).

Sorry for overreacting, but I'm always far more encouraged by Amare's box score than by his play this season because he never beats his man up the court. Maybe we're trying to develop a dynamic similar to the old showtime Lakers - Amare/Kareem grabs rebound, outlets, rest of team runs fast break, if no easy bucket, allow Amare/Kareem to set up in the half court.

The way we've been playing, Skinner's earned Diaw's minutes, but how do you sit a young player in the middle of a 45 million dollar contract?

[Dustbuster]

I am not in a hurry to get rid of Amare, despite my criticisms of him. In truth, I can be a little overly harsh with Amare because so many fanboys seems to have such a rose-colored glass view of him. He is capable of spectacular plays, and that seems to be the only thing that a lot of people can see about him. They excuse away all of the negatives because of the showtime dunk.

That being said, we cannot win a title without either Amare (or a suitable replacement for him, which we do not currently have and are unlikely to get). I really think that Amare still needs a development mentor in the organization that can help to shape him as a player. It seems to me that we have no adequate replacement for Iavoroni in this organization, and guys like Amare (and even Boris) need someone who can coach them for a positional standpoint. The coaching staff needs a big man. I personally wish that we had kept Scott Williams for that purpose. He seemed to have a great head on his shoulders, was a great chemistry guy, and to me seemed to be a good future mentor/coach.

Amare seems to have a good work ethic, but makes questionable decisions. I think his ego can make him dismissive of other players and probably because of his upbringing he is not comfortable with building relationships predicated on trust. He remains aloof, which probably robs him of the camaraderie that some of the players develop. He is still young, and can still become a great player, but I don't think that it will just happen without some guidance in the process. I don't know if the Suns organization has the right guy to help give Amare that guidance, but that needs to be a priority for them.

That, and finding someone who can motivate Boris.

[FurlanFufi]

No disrespect but that's one of the stupidest thing I have ever heard. For starters Amare is not the distributor, it is not his job to, and he does not have the ball in his hands 90% of the game. The offense does not run through him. The offense isn't predicated on him like it is for KG, Duncan, Yao, and even now Dwight Howard? But when Amare is feeling it on offense you bet he takes pressure off of everybody, because the entire defense is geared to stopping him. He gets the other teams big men in foul trouble. Which leads to open looks, and less attention on everybody else.

I have seen KG plenty he's the guy that's been sitting at home when the playoffs started for the last several years. He's the guy that when he did make the playoffs he was too busy deferring to Wally Alpahbits, Nesterovic, and Troy Hutson during critical moments of playoff games to will his team to victory. And before you say that he hasn't had the talent, he's had enough talent to get further than he has, and he's being paid enough that he should have been able to sneak his teams into the playoffs a few years even as a lower seed. As for Amare he has had no fear since his first playoff series his rookie year. In fact I think he even won a game in San Antonio by himself the year we avoided the sweep. You might remember the incredible block on Duncan when his hand was over the cylinder, and then he snagged the loose ball on the games final play to secure the win. Averaged a ton of points agains the premier team defense and defender in the NBA. When is the last time KG had such a signature playoff performance?....

Your point : Amare is better than KG?

Dream on....

KG is not a distributor, but you don't see him waiting for someone to move to make a play, nor does he get out of the game so easily with foul trouble, nor doe he hurt his team with a non-existant defense.

And he should have been further? With exactly WHICH team?

Show me a team he played with that could have made it all the way!

[FurlanFufi]

Personally, I don't feel that our problems can be narrowed down to just one issue.

First, I have had problems with Coach D's rotations (or lack thereof) for some time now. He definitely limits our abilities when the ol' tried and true rotation isn't working and he refuses to play our rookies and substitute. For the past few seasons, this has been a pet peeve, so I find it rather difficult to believe that he is all of a sudden seeing the light. Me thinks that perhaps we can attribute his sudden change of view to his having a little GM in his ear, nudging him firmly towards playing Skinner and whatnot. I find this a much more believable scenario.

Second, though we have Amare, who has a solid work ethic and is supposed to be a major part of our nucleus, his behaving like a primadonna is not indicative of being a mature and responsible leader. If he is creating conflict with his teammates, if he is preventing the team from gelling like it should or even slowing that process down, then perhaps he hasn't really earned the right to be a co-captain. When I read that he had been given that position I thought at the time that it seemed more like a bone being tossed to placate him rather than a position he had earned. I don't know, maybe it's just me that feels that way, wouldn't be the first time ... :wink:

Third, our guys playing with injuries worries the heck out of me. It takes so much longer to heal something like that when you are constantly using it/re-aggravating it. I realize that under most circumstances the injured player knows best whether he should be on the court or not. But we have guys who are warriors down to their souls (Steve and Raja are first to come to mind) and they will play until they absolutely can't anymore because of their dedication possibly to the point of being injured for much longer. There should be a point where coach and /or the trainers say, "No you don't ..." and coach sits them for a time. The thing is, I sometimes feel like everyone's so blinded by the thought of a ring that they can't see anything else.

But, even after finding fault, I am not discouraged. I think we have a tendency to start slow and build momentum. As such, we are on par as far as season starts and as long as the team can continue to coalesce, coach continues to experiment with rotations, and our guys can get healthy, we should be fine. I'll watch and wait until the All Star break and then I'll decide whether to worry or not.

Anybody want a puppy? :lol:

I do agree with everything...

But I still don't know how do we get past the Spurs.

[FurlanFufi]

Again with the ridiculousness! Amare is one guy that you can say does NOT disappear in the playoffs (averages 25.4 and 10.6 for his career in the post season). He and Nash consistently bring it when it matters. Can you say that about Marion? How about LB (a player I love)? We may not have a ring (yet) but without Amare we wouldn't have been as close, I can tell you that, and there is not a basketball mind out there that would disagree. You guys are acting like Amare didn't just recover from knee surgery. The guy is playing better with each passing game as he gets in game shape. It can't be easy having to guard Yao (twice), Howard (twice), among others when you are not in game shape. Having to guard another team's primary big, a player that will get multiple touches, will of course lead to fouls if you are not up to game speed. All the while Amare is averaging 19 and 9 and that average is consistently climbing. Amare is an ass, and you know what, I don't care. I would probably be unhappy to if I knew I could score anytime I wanted yet I wasn't getting the ball often. I love Nash, probably more than anyone, but why is it we don't harp on his flaws? He has at times forced the issue and his turnovers have been atrocious this year yet no one speaks of dealing him. Has he brought us a ring? No. I am in no way saying that we would be closer without him(we would be in the lottery) but am merely pointing out the hypocrisy that some of you show. I can recall multiple times when Nash would yell at Boris last year but no one got on him about it. KG is an aging vet, a player that plays with a lot of heart and desire...he is also playing in the east. He has played a soft schedule and is on a brand new team. I in no way see that team beating a healthy Suns/Spurs/Mavs team in a seven-game series. Get off of Amare's back. He has delivered time and time again and there is no reason to think that this season will be any different.

JK, if you don't understand the first time: I never said that Amare played subpar on playoffs. But his defense don't get better on the playoffs too (and by the way, it seems that never will). If you don't think that hurt our chances, let's see what happens again when we play SA or even Utah. Boozer would score at will, Okur will be free at the 3 point line...


He's not healthy now? That's the permanent excuse for the team not getting anywhere?
Is because of that he fouls? C'mon, he fouls because he don't have ANY IDEA (or he has, but doesn't want to ) of getting in position, always leave a free man on every switch, triss to steal the ball rather than to difficult a shot...

I love Amare, but we're getting nowhere near a title if he doesn't learn to defend just a little!


Boris is completely another case. He's killing our bench production, playing lazy on defense and offense, feels like he's waiting for the game to end on every play - and he's earning more than Barbs, and killing our payroll.

[sehan]

I said this last season, but I'll say it again.

So if I hear you guys correctly, expectation for Amare is that at 5 years into the league he is expected to score 30, get 15 rebounds, 5 blocks, and be a lock down defender. All this on a team with weak perimeter defenders and where he, at 6'10, is typically the biggest guy on the floor defending guys taller and bigger than him?

He is no lock down defender, but a lot of his defensive liabilities and foul trouble has to do with our perimeter defenders (a la Nash and Barbosa) as well as the coach. How about we do something little more sophisticated than rotating the shit out of our players all the time and call that the defensive scheme. How about we try to funnel opposing players to where our big man is for a change. How about we come up with a better defensive philosophy than lets run them tired so they can't attack us.

Not saying I like watching Spurs play. However, Amare's defensive issues are big exaggerated due to coach's lack of defensive focus or plan and our weak perimeter defenders.

Secondly, a lot of great offensive big man were defensive liabilities. Especially when they play beyond their size like Amare does. Charles was a big liability when he played here. Charles too always asked for a legitimate big man defender to help him out when he was here. Dunken benefited from having David Robinson do all the dirty work during his rookie years. Good coaches shield their star player's defensive liabilities by switching or using sophisticated help defense. Ours doesn't.

I am not excusing Amare and I don't like him just because of his athleticism. I like him cause of his work ethic and his drive. And his ego is big part of that drive. In my life and career, I've seen many people with similar drives and you just don't bet against those type of people, cause they will come back and prove you wrong and hurt you. I'll take that drive over talent.

Some brought up his lack of social skills due to his childhood. There are other stars with worse qualities and lack of leadership. He doesn't always have to be a perfect leader to be a franchise player. There are not a lot of Nash type players out there. I am sure KG's team mates have some things to say about his leadership skills. Dunken, during early years were often criticized for his lack of vocal leadership.

I feel all these things are things that THE COACH should compensate for and help him develop for their star players. Again our coach is just not the developing type.... unless it is Nash in which case he is very happy to compensate and shield him.

I remember he did the same for Amare (maybe even more than he does for Nash now) in the 04 - 05 season, but after couple of surgeries and couple of MVPs later it is obvious he is betting on a different horse.

Sorry for the rambling.... but just don't understand all the Amare haters out there. I for one think that we are very lucky to have him. As we old time fans know, talented big man don't come by often - especially in Phoenix.

For all those asking for Amare trade, come back when you find a big man that gets 30/10/3, plays lock down defense, runs the shit out of the floor, is willing to defend bigger guys, talks like a diplomat, and leads his team like Nash - cause anything less from Amare apparently is not acceptable.

[sehan]

Now that I got that out of my system, time for recommended solution.

Play Skiner and Amare together. I know few already called for his, but with those two out there together it is amazing our better our interior defense and rebouding is. During the NY game, when they were out there it was amazing to see those two around the basket blocking shots, helping, and GET THIS: two big man blocking out and going for defensive rebound together. What a concept - team defense and rebounding!!!

And it didn't seem to slow down our team at all. It actually seemed like we were running more and getting more secondary fast break opportunities with our big man running down the floor.

[v9]

Uh, hello? Does anyone actually realize that Amare's not playing his hardest because he's probably playing injured (like most of his teammates)? He looked great before he took a couple of "rest days" because he needed them.

IMHO, D'Antoni is to blame for much of this craptacular play from Amare (and Raja and Nash and the rest of the walking wounded). If players are hurt, sit them down, and don't let them return until they're close to 100%. Otherwise, you're going to end up with a team full of zombies.

[INFORMER]

This IS Isiah Thomas we're talking about. Maybe he'll do it in a last-gasp attempt at saving his job.


I'm not saying Marion or Amare have to be included for the sake of compensating the for the talent the Suns would be receiving; they would have to be included to make the salaries work.



I have seen KG plenty he's the guy that's been sitting at home when the playoffs started for the last several years. He's the guy that when he did make the playoffs he was too busy deferring to Wally Alpahbits, Nesterovic, and Troy Hutson during critical moments of playoff games to will his team to victory. And before you say that he hasn't had the talent, he's had enough talent to get further than he has, and he's being paid enough that he should have been able to sneak his teams into the playoffs a few years even as a lower seed.

KG had enough talent for one year, and that's the year they made it to the Conference Finals. And I don't think KG can be blamed for his lack of playoff success. Moreover, I think your overexaggerating his propensity to defer.


Well you wouldn't know any better with all the knee jerking and doom and gloom that goes around in these forums. It seems like all the negativity starts with a few posters and the panick starts spreading.

SJ: Go visit other forums. More times than not, you'll find "fans" worse than the ones here. I'm not saying people don't get carried away here or go too far (because they do, sometimes) but I think that's not such an uncommon thing. Still, it doesn't make it right.

[SunsJunkee]

Your point : Amare is better than KG?

Dream on....

KG is not a distributor, but you don't see him waiting for someone to move to make a play, nor does he get out of the game so easily with foul trouble, nor doe he hurt his team with a non-existant defense.

And he should have been further? With exactly WHICH team?

Show me a team he played with that could have made it all the way!

And your point? KG was never going to be traded straight up for Amare so it's a moot point. If you want to see KG in a Suns uniform so bad go play yourself a video game. Any other Suns players you would like to swap out for defensive upgrades while your at it? Maybe Nash for Deron Williams? Barbosa for Ginobli?

Secondly I am not the first one to call out KG's... KG got all butthurt a few years ago when Barkley and Magic called out his assertiveness in the playoffs because he couldn't get his team past the first round. Frankly I don't understand all the enthrallment with Garnett. For all his fantasy stats he has a career playoff record of 17-27 and he has been out of the first round exactly 1 out of 8 tries. With an assortment of accompanying point guards including Marbury, Terrell Brandon, Sam Cassell, Chauncy Billups. That's not exactly chopped liver.

[MEE]

Please tell me you aren't basing your primadonna comments on the one issue the Coro brought up. Is it really Amare's fault that the offense isn't at its peak? He barely got the ball in the first half and when he got it in the second half he either scored, assisted, got fouled, or on two instances held it too long.

Alright ... I'm not basing my primadonna comment on what Coro brought up.

[FurlanFufi]

And your point? KG was never going to be traded straight up for Amare so it's a moot point. If you want to see KG in a Suns uniform so bad go play yourself a video game. Any other Suns players you would like to swap out for defensive upgrades while your at it? Maybe Nash for Deron Williams? Barbosa for Ginobli?

Secondly I am not the first one to call out KG's... KG got all butthurt a few years ago when Barkley and Magic called out his assertiveness in the playoffs because he couldn't get his team past the first round. Frankly I don't understand all the enthrallment with Garnett. For all his fantasy stats he has a career playoff record of 17-27 and he has been out of the first round exactly 1 out of 8 tries. With an assortment of accompanying point guards including Marbury, Terrell Brandon, Sam Cassell, Chauncy Billups. That's not exactly chopped liver.

Yeah, and Amare has played with nash....If that's the point of comparison, Amare should've been at least on the finals?

We could have gotten KG for Amare and a throw in for cap purposes, maybe a pick (since we sell then every year...), as far as I remember. We'll not get anything now, so I was just wondering when I fisrt brought up the subject (and I was not the only one). Barbs for Ginobilli would be a no brainer if I was born in any other country than Brazil...:P
By the way, Deron could be better on defense, but he's not as good as a player as Nash.
KG is BETTER than Amare is, and I hope Amare could catch up someday (but I doubt).

[SpecialSauce]

SJ: Go visit other forums. More times than not, you'll find "fans" worse than the ones here. I'm not saying people don't get carried away here or go too far (because they do, sometimes) but I think that's not such an uncommon thing. Still, it doesn't make it right.


Don't listen to anything INF says. You won't find a poster on a MAVS board claiming their team has no shot in the playoffs and will never win anything. Look at my sig

[SunsJunkee]

Yeah, and Amare has played with nash....If that's the point of comparison, Amare should've been at least on the finals?

We could have gotten KG for Amare and a throw in for cap purposes, maybe a pick (since we sell then every year...), as far as I remember. We'll not get anything now, so I was just wondering when I fisrt brought up the subject (and I was not the only one). Barbs for Ginobilli would be a no brainer if I was born in any other country than Brazil...:P
By the way, Deron could be better on defense, but he's not as good as a player as Nash.
KG is BETTER than Amare is, and I hope Amare could catch up someday (but I doubt).

Sorry dude that trade never existed as it was the figment of a few sportswriters imaginations. If you believe the Suns they never entertained trading Amare, Marion on the other hand.... Minnesota wasn't interested in him anyway. And as far as STAT goes he may not be as good an all around player as Garnett but I'll take playoff Amare anyday of the week and I will maintain that he is a better fit for this team, he runs the court better, and is superior in the pick and roll with Nash. His game fits Nash's much much better than KG, who IMHO would be much like Dirk was with Nash, a stationary big man who will shoot primarily jumpers. Remember Nash's game really blossomed when he came to Phoenix because of finishers like Amare and Marion.

[INFORMER]

Don't listen to anything INF says. You won't find a poster on a MAVS board claiming their team has no shot in the playoffs and will never win anything. Look at my sig

:roll:

[Nate]

Don't listen to anything INF says. You won't find a poster on a MAVS board claiming their team has no shot in the playoffs and will never win anything. Look at my sig.

:roll:


Sauci has a point here. Or, rather, he had a point. Much has changed since last april as shown by the evidence on www.dallas-mavs.com (http://www.dallas-mavs.com). They even have their own "I hate our coach"-thread.

[INFORMER]

has no shot in the playoffs and will never win anything

Ajnd first off, I was stating what I think will happen with this ball club. To say I said they have no shot is a gross exaggeration. Do I think they will not win it all? I said it then, and I still maintain that stance. Secondly, I didn't say they will never win anything. I was specifically referring to this team. I meant that as long as we have Marion's, Diaw's, and Banks's contracts, this team can't improve. Talent can't be added (just about every draft pick has been dumped) and we don't have the cap situation to sign significant free agents. So unless some drastic changes are made to this team, I don't see them going anywhere, or, in other words, winning it all.

If you are bothered by what I said, that's fine. If you want to hold me to what I said, that's fair. But stop acting like the guardian of the purity of Suns fandom, stop blowing what I said out of proportion, and stop being so pissy. Moreover, continuously calling me to task for one thing I said when you troll on game-day threads spewing all kinds of negativity and your constant harping on Barbosa really rob you of any freeness of speech. So get over it.

[Mori_Chu]

The thing that drives me nuts is that so many other good/great teams still find ways to work in new young guys. Detroit has Maxiell and whatshisname. Dallas added that rookie ... Rush? Is that it? (You can tell I'm following them closely.) The Warriors added this Aziubuke guy. Toronto found Javario Moon.

Why can they find ways to integrate new players, but we can't? Every year, this replenishing of their roster gives them new hope that they will be better than they were before. Us, we're pretty much stuck with the 8 guys we have, and 2-4 of them are nursing various injuries, and a couple of them are in offensive slumps, etc.

[INFORMER]

Honestly Mori, I think the Suns could have gotten away with it if not for Banks and Diaw being busts. Then again, you're going to miss in free agency. I don't think there is any team that strikes gold with every free agent acquisition or contract extension. But that's why draft picks are so important. They're a safety net, something a team can fall back on.

[ShelC]

Azibuike has been around a few years, in training camps and the DLeague. With guys like thats, its the right place and right time. Toronto did its scouting and found Moon (no surprise there with BC in charge), Dallas has drafted real well over the past few years even tho theyre guys may not pan out, Detroit drafted Maxiell late in the 1st round and Amir in the 2nd. Not sure why Dallas and Detroit can draft and develop rookies and eventually use them, but we cant. We use that excuse that we're trying to win a title and can afford to wait on young players or waste a roster spot. But Dallas and Detroit do just that and its paying dividends for them.

[SpecialSauce]

:roll:


Wow I would really like to know what you are :roll: about. Your own quote? Because I :roll: at that every time I see it.