Game Day: Orlando at Phoenix

[sunsdotcom]

the matchup to watch: Dwight Howard vs. Amare Stoudemire

[SwingMan]

Crap -

I was hoping to see a gimpy Raja vs. Keith Bogans grudge match.....

[MTSunsFan]

Um, you forgot something sunsdotcom:

Dis∙cuss

[Ring_Wanted]

Marion vs Lewis is also interesting. I want to see how The Matrix takes care of his overpaid ass.

[Mori_Chu]

Orlando has a really good team, and they're playing at a high level right now. We aren't, and we're banged up.

Nonetheless, I have faith in our boys to get the job done. I do believe we're better than the Magic, especially in our house. Suns squeak by with a close win. Marion and Hill carry us tonight.

GO SUNS!

[Superbone]

Marion vs Lewis is also interesting. I want to see how The Matrix takes care of his overpaid ass.

Yeah, but if Matrix out plays him, does that mean we have to pay Trix 20 Mil a year?

[Superbone]

Magic are hot, we are not. Hopefully our team can wake up from our slump and play like we (some of us) know they can play. Amare has had Howard's number in the past but they are on different trends right now (Howard up, Amare down). I'd like to see some fire from Amare tonight.

[Ring_Wanted]

Superbone wrote:


Yeah, but if Matrix out plays him, does that mean we have to pay Trix 20 Mil a year?

Probably according to Marion and his agent's logic. Sadly, things don't work that way, much less so with our cap problems. 60/3 is out of question. 55/4, maybe..

[LazarusLong]

PREVIEW


A dominating performance by an opposing big man helped send the Phoenix Suns to their second straight loss Wednesday.

Now they look to come up with an answer for 6-foot-11 Dwight Howard as they try to avoid a third straight defeat Friday when they host the streaking Orlando Magic, who have won more games than any other NBA team.

Phoenix (11-4) beat the Magic (14-3) for the fourth straight time Nov. 10 in Orlando, winning 106-96 despite 33 points and 18 rebounds from Howard.

But the Suns had problems defending Houston's Yao Ming on Wednesday in a 100-94 home loss to the Rockets, just their second defeat of the season at US Airways Center. Houston successfully slowed down the Suns' preferred breakneck pace and repeatedly got the ball inside to Yao, who had 31 points on 12-of-19 shooting and 13 rebounds.

Coach Mike D'Antoni blamed Phoenix's offense for the loss to the Rockets, as it was just the third time all season the Suns were held under 100 points.

In their previous game, the Suns allowed 45 first-quarter points in a 129-114 loss at Golden State. They had won eight in a row before their current skid.

"There's no need to panic, we just need to improve," Phoenix center Amare Stoudemire said after scoring 25 points Wednesday. "We need to look at film tomorrow and go over the things that we didn't quite execute tonight and improve on that. We're still in good shape and we're still confident."

The Magic, who have won four straight and nine of 10, may be more confident than any other team in basketball. After finishing under .500 last season (40-42), they signed free agent forward Rashard Lewis (19.2 points per game) and have watched Howard take another big step forward.

The 21-year-old Howard is coming off perhaps his best game in four NBA seasons, scoring a career-high 39 points to go with 16 rebounds in Orlando's 110-94 win over Seattle on Wednesday. He was 12-of-17 from the floor and 15-of-20 from the foul line, also blocking five shots and prompting SuperSonics rookie Kevin Durant to call him "the most dominating player in this game right now."

Howard averages 23.5 points and 14.5 rebounds -- up from 17.6 and 12.3 last season -- and has a league-high 14 double-doubles.

"The way Dwight was playing, they didn't have an answer for him," Orlando coach Stan Van Gundy said. "One guy couldn't stop him, two guys couldn't stop him, so they put everybody on him."

The Magic are entering the third leg of a five-game West Coast swing with an NBA-best 9-1 road record. They visit the Los Angeles Lakers on Sunday and Golden State the following night.

These teams' first meeting this season was forward Grant Hill's first game back in Orlando after leaving the Magic as a free agent in the offseason. Hill had 14 points and eight rebounds, but it was Leandro Barbosa who buried Orlando with a career-high 39 points.

Though they failed to slow down Howard, the Suns held Lewis to a season-low seven points on 3-of-14 shooting. Lewis had just nine points in his last game at Seattle, where he spent his first nine seasons.

[SherD]

This is going to be one helluva game to watch.

Amare vs. Dwight
Shawn vs. Rashard
Grant vs. his old team (again)

Gotta keep an eye out on Bogans and The Garbage Pail Kid (Turkyglue or however you spell his name), especially from behind the arc. They can get hot quickly and run up the scoreboard.

I'll take the Suns by 7. Orlando is a hot team, while we're in need of a swift kick in the rear to get us jump started again. We usually respond well to adversity, plus I can't see this team dropping 3 in a row.

[LazarusLong]

Start Barbosa. Keep Bell on the bench for R/R/

Just for shits and giggles, play DJ some.

[Superbone]

This is going to be one helluva game to watch.

Amare vs. Dwight
Shawn vs. Rashard
Grant vs. his old team (again)

Gotta keep an eye out on Bogans and The Garbage Pail Kid (Turkyglue or however you spell his name), especially from behind the arc. They can get hot quickly and run up the scoreboard.

I'll take the Suns by 7. Orlando is a hot team, while we're in need of a swift kick in the rear to get us jump started again. We usually respond well to adversity, plus I can't see this team dropping 3 in a row.

Excellent take as always, Sher. Good to see you around.

[Superbone]

Superbone wrote:


Yeah, but if Matrix out plays him, does that mean we have to pay Trix 20 Mil a year?

Probably according to Marion and his agent's logic. Sadly, things don't work that way, much less so with our cap problems. 60/3 is out of question. 55/4, maybe..

Now that I know more about his agent. I'm almost sure it was the agent's idea for Shawn to go public with his trade "demands".

[Squeege63]

Superbone wrote:


Yeah, but if Matrix out plays him, does that mean we have to pay Trix 20 Mil a year?

Probably according to Marion and his agent's logic. Sadly, things don't work that way, much less so with our cap problems. 60/3 is out of question. 55/4, maybe..

Now that I know more about his agent. I'm almost sure it was the agent's idea for Shawn to go public with his trade "demands".

I said this in the Friday thread, but since it is being discussed in here too, i thought I would reiterate. I hope the Varajao situation blows up in his and his agent's faces. That way, Shawn will think twice. Fegan is attempting to be the Scott Boras of the NBA. The only difference is that there is a salary cap in the NBA, so teams are much moe reluctant to meet demands. I think if this deal goes south for varajao we have a good shot of resigning Marion to something reasonable.

[SherD]

What's up, Boney.

I cannot wait to watch this game tonight. Amare will be pumped, so I expect his matchup with Dwight to be one big show.

[Maldonado316]

Hopefully this is the "get right" game for the Suns.

[gooch]

The play of Dwight Howard has had be pretty impressed. If he ever picks up a steady jump shot - watch out. I hope Amare steps up to the plate tonight and plays some solid defense.

Being the homeboy I am - Suns by 5

[darrkin]

WE GET BEAT BY TWENTY........Lately I'm wrong...lets hope

[Wormwood]

Suns go down... we're really not playing the way we need to, and I think D'Antoni's system no longer fits too many of the players on this team. Call the trade rumors silly, but my gut feeling tells me something big will happen prior to the deadling (and no, picking Tskitishvili off of waivers doesn't count).

[CNY_xplant]

Um, you forgot something sunsdotcom:

Dis∙cuss

Can we make a sticky post with some formatting rules and instructions for the board? It seems like this is pretty common these days.

Starting to understand the root of the low energy level. :wink:

[CNY_xplant]

Suns go down... we're really not playing the way we need to, and I think D'Antoni's system no longer fits too many of the players on this team. Call the trade rumors silly, but my gut feeling tells me something big will happen prior to the deadling (and no, picking Tskitishvili off of waivers doesn't count).

Worm, for once I fully agree with you. :wink:

In the thread about the move of Tucker to the D-League, I mentioned that I feel that it was a positioning move. Something just tells me that the FO is preparing for a bigger move of some sort. I realize that the move of Tucker is a good thing and will only help him out, but my gut is screaming that a change is coming. (Or could be the East Coast Mexican food.)

[cap]

Dis•cuss

You forgot the bold, MTSF.

[Immortal]

The team has looked like ass lately, and the crappy weather makes me think we're gonna lose.

[Wormwood]

Big_fan,

If you think Mexican food (as interpreted by folks on the east coast) is weird, try Mexican food as interpreted in a restaurant in Bahrain staffed by Sri Lankans.... Senor Paco's in Manama was a once in a lifetime experience... mostly because I only want to experience"Mexcian" food like that once in my lifetime.

[JackArse]

looks like bell is out for tonight. frankly.. i'm glad to hear it.

[cap]

looks like bell is out for tonight. frankly.. i'm glad to hear it.

We started playing better as soon as Raja went out of the lineup, and playing worse when he came back.

[CNY_xplant]

looks like bell is out for tonight. frankly.. i'm glad to hear it.

We started playing better as soon as Raja went out of the lineup, and playing worse when he came back.

Time to trade Raja then!!! :lol:

[cap]

Raja’s average +/- this season is +0.3 per game, so with him on the floor we were just at parity with the weak schedule we were playing.

[Superbone]

Raja’s average +/- this season is +0.3 per game, so with him on the floor we were just at parity with the weak schedule we were playing.

Cool, so if we play him every minute of every game, we'll win every game. They'll be close, but a win is a win. Make it so, coach!

[Superbone]

Dis•cuss

You forgot the bold, MTSF.

Sorry, cap, but your interpunct is too large. (Yeah, I know. That's what she said.)

Dis∙cuss

[Immortal]

Looks like Raja is playing after all. He's in the starting lineup.

[Superbone]

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Nice energy and start so far.

[Superbone]

Bell for 3!!!

[Immortal]

At least Bell has found his shot, but Nash has lost his.

LB with the jam! I don't think I've seen him dunk before.

[Wormwood]

Up by 10 at the half. God start, but I'm a little worried about how we'll do if Raja cools off. D-Howard is ungodly. He makes Amare look unathletic.

[desertcoast]

Dis•cuss

You forgot the bold, MTSF.

Sorry, cap, but your interpunct is too large. (Yeah, I know. That's what she said.)

Dis∙cuss

it's not the size of the interpunct, it's what you do with it....

:oops:

[duck44]

looks like bell is out for tonight. frankly.. i'm glad to hear it.

We started playing better as soon as Raja went out of the lineup, and playing worse when he came back.

Yep!

He needs time off to heal!!

[duck44]

Up by 10 at the half. God start, but I'm a little worried about how we'll do if Raja cools off. D-Howard is ungodly. He makes Amare look unathletic.

HOWARD is the next Shaq! for the next ten years!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Immortal]

Am I going crazy of do I keep hearing the Windows error chime on the FSN high-def feed? I keep checking my laptop but it's in sleep mode when I hear it.

[UOducks4life]

The Suns are terrible.

[RFID]

Suns win.. 110 - 106
What's wrong with their free throw this season?

[Phoenix219]

i just got off work, saw 2 pages and thought the game was still in progress... lol

[Wormwood]

Am I going crazy of do I keep hearing the Windows error chime on the FSN high-def feed? I keep checking my laptop but it's in sleep mode when I hear it.

Nope. It's on my league pass as well.



Wormwood wrote:
Up by 10 at the half. God start, but I'm a little worried about how we'll do if Raja cools off. D-Howard is ungodly. He makes Amare look unathletic.


HOWARD is the next Shaq! for the next ten years!!!!!!!!!!!!


That wasn't a dig on Amare. Howard is just so crazy athletic he makes the #2 guy in the league look slow.

[MTSunsFan]

We only beat a decent Orlando squad by 4 points. What's wrong w/ this team??? :D :wink:

Seriously though, nice win!

[desertcoast]

Amare rejecting Howard was the highlight of the night.

[AmareIsGod]

Whattaya know? We win a game against a good/great team and there's 2 pages of posts. When we lose a game, there's 8 or 9 pages of posts. Go figure.

Anyways, go Suns.

[JackArse]

that's because losses require trade scenarios and calls for d'antoni's head. those take up a lot more room.

[sose]

The amare rejection was nice, but I like Leandro's 2 hand jam! That was my play of the game..

[Xylus]

Man, I love Brian Skinner. He doesn't make much of an impact offensively, but he's so active on the other end of the floor. Opposing big men who tend to dominate Amare's weak D suddenly become much less effective against Skinner, much like they did against KT last year. He does so much in so little time (seriously--why doesn't D'Antoni give this guy like 25 minutes a night?), and deserves much more. I hope D'Antoni gives him ample PT against teams like Utah and San Antonio, 'cause I love this guy.

Is it crazy to wish that he was a starter?

[JackArse]

i like skinner's shot. he's not quite as dead on as KT was, but it's a lot quicker shot than KT's was.

[sose]

Bell's season high sparks Suns past dominant Howard, Magic

Nov. 30, 2007
CBSSports.com wire reports

Share this page.

PHOENIX -- Raja Bell had a season-high 20 points to pace the Suns to a 110-106 victory on Friday night over the Orlando Magic, the NBA's winningest team.

The Magic are now 14-4, with two of their losses against the Suns, who also beat them 106-96 at Orlando Nov. 10. Since then, Orlando had been 9-1.

Amare Stoudemire had 19 points and 10 rebounds, Leandro Barbosa scored 17, Shawn Marion had 18 points and nine rebounds, Grant Hill 15 points and Steve Nash added 15 points and 14 assists for the Suns (12-4), who snapped a two-game skid.

Dwight Howard, who had a career-high 39 points and 16 rebounds against Seattle on Wednesday night, followed that with 30 points and 23 rebounds against the Suns. Howard had eight dunks. Hedo Turkoglu added 25 points for the Magic and Rashard Lewis had 18.

The Magic, who trailed by 10 points starting the fourth quarter, pulled to 107-106 with 11.4 seconds remaining on two free throws by Lewis. Marion then hit one of two free throws, Lewis missed a 3-pointer, and Nash sealed the victory with two foul shots with 3.8 seconds left.

Bell, whose previous high this season was 16, already had 18 in the first half, hitting 7-of-10 shots, including all four of his 3-point attempts. Hampered by back and ankle injuries this season and considered a doubtful starter Friday, Bell appeared to have more spring in his step than in recent games, showing no ill effects of his physical ailments.

With the help of Bell's pinpoint shooting, the Suns established a 60-50 halftime lead. They were aided by 12 Orlando turnovers, leading to 12 points.
Advertisement

Howard started slowly, missing four of his first five shots. He heated up, however, and the league leader in double-doubles already had his 15th by halftime, with 15 points and 10 rebounds.

Twice the Suns led by 15 points in the first half, including 31-16 after one period.

Nash made his first nine free-throw attempts, extending his streak without a miss this season to 53, the most in the NBA since Philadelphia's Kyle Korver hit 47 in a row last season. But he missed his 10th, with 15.8 seconds left.
Notes

Howard had 73 dunks coming into the game, more than 25 NBA teams, and more than twice as many as any other player. The Lakers' Andrew Bynum was second with 33. ... The Suns now embark on a season-high five-game road trip in seven days, visiting New York, Indiana, Toronto, Washington and Minnesota. ... The Magic complete their five-game road swing at the Lakers on Sunday and at Golden State on Monday. ... The Suns' Sean Marks, who was born in Auckland, New Zealand, became a U.S. citizen Friday. ... Orlando's 16 first-quarter points were a season low for a Suns' opponent.

First AP wire breakdown of the game..

[Mori_Chu]

A fun game. Shows how much better the West is than the East. The Magic are definitely one of the top 3 teams out East, and IMO better than the Celtics (trailing only Detroit). But they'd be about 6th out West.

Suns made a good show of it. I just knew Stevie would miss one of those free throws because all the practice shots he was taking kept bricking. He seems a bit off; hope his shoulder is okay.

Raja Bell is the man. That is all. Get well soon, warrior.

And how about that Barbosa JAM?! WOW! And the Amare rejection on D-How. Loving it... Great win.

[TexSUN]

The amare rejection was nice, but I like Leandro's 2 hand jam! That was my play of the game..
Agreed.

(Seems as good a way as any to try my hand at the new board. :) )

[Superbone]

Am I going crazy of do I keep hearing the Windows error chime on the FSN high-def feed? I keep checking my laptop but it's in sleep mode when I hear it.

LOL. Yeah, I kept hearing it as well. Even heard it during the postgame show.

Anybody else have screwed up video at the end of the game? Maybe it was just my DTV DVR.

[TexSUN]

The amare rejection was nice, but I like Leandro's 2 hand jam! That was my play of the game..
Here you go, Sose:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi897RqDnjE

(one of the members on my blog created that, I can't take credit for it)

[k_kwan]

Good win for the Suns, much needed! Yeah it doesnt look like the nega-fans are out tonight to preach their trade scenarios for Amare or fire D'antoni rants.

[sunsdotcom]

are there any current suns games in torrents?

[OE]

It's hard not to notice how much slower Amare has become. Skinner was moving twice as fast around the court.

We can talk about how athletic Howard is, but he wouldn't look nearly that good if Amare was still an above-the-rim running, jumping phenom. Somebody ought to remind of the days when he refused to be called a center, because he's the last guy up the floor on almost every possession.

...

I'm gonna take a break from posting for a while. I am getting pretty down on this team, even when we win against quality opponents. That's not a good thing, but I can't seem to help it. I hope in three months we're looking great so I can feel like an idiot.

Go Suns

Edit: BTW, the new format looks great! Keep up the good work! I know there are many more silent fans out there who appreciate it.

[sunsdotcom]

games via torrents

suns v rockets

http://www.rocketredrockers.net:6969/stats.html?info_hash=95f6d2b1a96b34ccf10cf6dd21a9d 6e3a9686cfb

suns v warriors

http://bt.davka.info/torrents/amox/07.11.27-Suns%20vs%20Warriors%201127.torrent

[Dustbuster]

Amare rejecting Howard was the highlight of the night.

Yeah, but I would guess that Howard dunking 8 times on Amare and Suns was the highlight of the game for Magic fans. I'm sorry (for us, mostly), but at the moment Howard is twice the player that Amare is. If we could magically trade the two players, the Suns would be unstoppable.

BTW, I wonder if Cook will be nearly as effective a shooter with the Magic? It seems to me that Kobe gets so much of the defense's attention that he benefited from having a ton of wide-open looks.

[SwingMan]

Yeah, but I would guess that Howard dunking 8 times on Amare and Suns was the highlight of the game for Magic fans. I'm sorry (for us, mostly), but at the moment Howard is twice the player that Amare is. If we could magically trade the two players, the Suns would be unstoppable.

BTW, I wonder if Cook will be nearly as effective a shooter with the Magic? It seems to me that Kobe gets so much of the defense's attention that he benefited from having a ton of wide-open looks.

I couldn't disagree more on your Howard point.

Howard gets by on pure athleticism and hustle. Yes, at the moment, he has more pop in his step than Amare, but the kid still has no game outside of 5 feet, is a horrible FT shooter and simply CANNOT pass.

Let Howard go through a microfracture and a couple of scopes and see exactly how much of his game has been flushed thanks to under development in comparison to Amare's jumper, quickness and overall IQ.

[Dustbuster]

I couldn't disagree more on your Howard point.

Howard gets by on pure athleticism and hustle. Yes, at the moment, he has more pop in his step than Amare, but the kid still has no game outside of 5 feet, is a horrible FT shooter and simply CANNOT pass.

Let Howard go through a microfracture and a couple of scopes and see exactly how much of his game has been flushed thanks to under development in comparison to Amare's jumper, quickness and overall IQ.

Point taken, Swingie, but with all due respect, Howard hasn't had microfracture or the scopes, nor does he seem to need them. I am not talking about the player that Amare could be, I am talking about the player that is on the team NOW. Our biggest weaknesses have mostly been: lack of rebounding, lack of defense and toughness in the post (and occasional droughts from the outside). Howard would plug that holes that right now Amare is leaving wide open. Howard has dedicated himself to rebounding in a way that Amare never has. He is a far better defender than Amare has ever been.

In a perfect world, Amare would never have needed surgeries and would have constantly progressed over the past five years. But that hasn't been the case. In the real world, Howard has become a much bigger force than Amare. Yes, Amare is a little more versatile offensively, and is certainly a much better shooter at the line, but Howard has far more of an impact upon the game than Amare does. Yeah, I can agree that Amare could have been a better player than Howard (although don't kid yourself into thinking that Dwight isn't going to continue to develop), but the reality is that he isn't now.

[Dustbuster]

By the way, I wouldn't say that Amare has a high overall basketball IQ. His lack of fundamentals, particularly on the defensive end, is the reason why he has been frustrating over the years. Howard is far more fundamental on that end, in footwork, and boxing out. He doesn't foul at nearly the rate that Amare does.

[AZSportsFan]

Let's see - Amare stuffs Howard. Amare nearly jams over the top of Howard, and it wasn't because of the jump, but because of losing the ball. Yeah, Amare can't jump!

The Orlando offense focuses on Howard. The Phoenix offense does NOT focus on Amare. You can't compare the stats of the two directly for that. Howard IS a better rebounder, but that is because that is what he does and that is their system (Howard stays back, everyone else runs up court).

I thought that the Suns were foolish not to go to Amare from about 5 minutes in. That should have been options 1 and 2. He was scoring at will, and getting Howard and other in foul trouble. He only looked bad on that ill-advised fade-away jumper from the free-throw line. Other than that, Amare played well. And the good guys won to boot.

[Amarefan]

Whattaya know? We win a game against a good/great team and there's 2 pages of posts. When we lose a game, there's 8 or 9 pages of posts. Go figure.

Anyways, go Suns.


I have noticed that myself, I wonder why that is?

[SwingMan]

Sorry Dust - should've been a bit clearer.

When I mentioned IQ, I meant it strictly in the relative sense, where Amare clearly has an advantage at this point.

[SunsJunkee]

I was at the game and to say Howard dunked on Amare 8 times is a little ridiculous, atleast half of those we during brief stints when Skinner was guarding him and got straight up posterized on alley oops. It's amazing the Suns haven't figured out the Magics number one play were Howard fakes a screen and rolls to the basket. Alot of the Howards points were because Amare was out of position, he kept trying to jump out on the ball carrier and Howard would just roll straight to the hoop. If Amare stays home, on Dwight like Dwight does on Amare, and he gets boxed out than I don't think he has nearly as many easy baskets. He does remind me of Amare in his first couple of years where if he caught the ball under the hoop you weren't going to stop the dunk. That being said Amare has much better touch than Dwight does, and is a much better finisher when he can't just dunk it. Howard is a superior rebounder, and is as good as anyone at getting really deep position because he is just so big and strong. It is pretty exiting though watching Amare and Dwight meet at the rim on a few occasions, had me holding my breath. If only Amare could have finished that one jam over Dwight my night would have been complete.

[JackArse]

It's amazing the Suns haven't figured out the Magics number one play were Howard fakes a screen and rolls to the basket.

it took the rest of the league two years to figure out that the suns were doing that.

[Mori_Chu]

I couldn't believe how many times Amare left Howard on D to go after some little guard with the ball. What is he doing, leaving that beast wide open like that? His ball pressure never led to anything good, anyway.

[ShelC]

So youre saying Amare is a ball chaser?

[k_kwan]

I was at the game and to say Howard dunked on Amare 8 times is a little ridiculous, atleast half of those we during brief stints when Skinner was guarding him and got straight up posterized on alley oops. It's amazing the Suns haven't figured out the Magics number one play were Howard fakes a screen and rolls to the basket. Alot of the Howards points were because Amare was out of position, he kept trying to jump out on the ball carrier and Howard would just roll straight to the hoop. If Amare stays home, on Dwight like Dwight does on Amare, and he gets boxed out than I don't think he has nearly as many easy baskets. He does remind me of Amare in his first couple of years where if he caught the ball under the hoop you weren't going to stop the dunk. That being said Amare has much better touch than Dwight does, and is a much better finisher when he can't just dunk it. Howard is a superior rebounder, and is as good as anyone at getting really deep position because he is just so big and strong. It is pretty exiting though watching Amare and Dwight meet at the rim on a few occasions, had me holding my breath. If only Amare could have finished that one jam over Dwight my night would have been complete.


I'm only replying to this quote because it deals with the topic of thought with Amare being athleticaly outmatched by Howard.

Again this board friggin frustrates me on some of their thoughts. have many of you forgotten that during the olympic trials before the scope that Amare was not only on par with Howard but pretty much took over the starting center duties after the first few games?

Did some of us all of a sudden forget that Amare is about a month a half removed from the scope surgery and is still getting back into playing shape, while Howard has had the benefit of a clean bill of health?

Did we all forget that the surgery was just a scope and not a microfracture procedure. And that Amare's expected to make a full recovery back at?

Again people sixteen games into the season with injuries, new pieces, and with one of the best starts in franchise history and some of you all are crying foul? Get your gawddamn mind right!!!!

[Ring_Wanted]

Maybe the fact that Amare has missed about 1/3 of his career due to injuries and his subpar quickness and explosiveness for his own standars have made people be even more amazed by Howard's physical tools. Just a case of what could have been and wasn't (at least at this point this season, I'll concede)

[k_kwan]

Maybe the fact that Amare has missed about 1/3 of his career due to injuries and his subpar quickness and explosiveness for his own standars have made people be even more amazed by Howard's physical tools. Just a case of what could have been and wasn't (at least at this point this season, I'll concede)


And by your admission Ring with you stating what if's and what could have been's at this point early in the season that they might be a tad premature?

[Ring_Wanted]

Of course it's premature. Amare is not 100%. But with his record, I'm starting to fear he'll never be againg close to that 2005 specimen, and anything short taht, just can't match up with Howard, specially if Amare can't play smart D.

[k_kwan]

All you have to do to reassure yourself Ring is remember the monster block Amare had on Howard who everyone on this board says once he gets the ball down that low cannot be stopped for a dunk but a not 100% Amare blocked him and blocked him with authority.

Also remember the spin move monster dunk Amare almost landed on Mr. Howard as well.

He's getting there just be patient Ring and give Amare the benefit of the doubt. He's proved us wrong once already.......

[Ring_Wanted]

I know he has. But you'll agree those plays were the rule, not the exception, in 2005. Do you remember that sick block on Duncan in the only game we won in the 2005 playoffs? Now, he is capable of performing the occasional highlight, but not in the nightly basis we were used to see. Do I hope he gets it back? Of course.

[k_kwan]

I see where youre coming from Ring. Lets just not be so fast and easy to proclaim Amare is a shadow of his former 04-05 self.

He's still recovering, if he's still playing like this come march then we can let the doom and gloom and what if's and what could have been parades loose! ;)

[Ring_Wanted]

No problem giving Amare the benefit of the doubt after all he has been through. But i won't pretend he's still the best young big man in the L if I don't feel so. Above all, I'm a Suns fan, not an Amare fan. Or Marion, ot Nash's, for that matter.

[sunsdotcom]

Howard = athleticism + power
Amare = athleticism + speed

[k_kwan]

Duly noted Ring but again I'm just saying its still too early in the season and their careers to be saying Amare is or isnt or if Dwight is or isnt better than the other.

I am like yourself a suns fan first and foremost.

But just looking at the records, Amare has more victories and a better stat line of the two, that is until these last two or three meetings. So until Howard passes Amare in the victories and the stats I have to still give the nod to Amare.

[k_kwan]

Howard = athleticism + power
Amare = athleticism + speed

I like this comparison.

[Ring_Wanted]

I like this one better: Amare at 100% = Athleticsm + power + speed.

[k_kwan]

I like this one better: Amare at 100% = Athleticsm + power + speed.

Now you're talking Ring, now you're talking!!!

[Ring_Wanted]

I don't remember any big more gifted than Amare, with that mix of strenght and quickness. At 100% no C or PF can match up with him.

[cap]

But just looking at the records, Amare has more victories and a better stat line of the two, that is until these last two or three meetings. So until Howard passes Amare in the victories and the stats I have to still give the nod to Amare.
So far this season, Howard has the better record and far better stats. And he doesn’t have Steve Nash to help him to that record. Although he does have the advantage of playing in the East, he has actually had a tougher schedule so far; according to Sagarin (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nba0708.htm), the Magic have had the 13th most difficult schedule so far, and the Suns 24th.

[sunsdotcom]

I like this one better: Amare at 100% = Athleticsm + power + speed.

i'm sorry, but amare was never a "power player" or a physical one. he is not as strong as most PFs and can't push people around with brute strength.

just because he is a powerful dunker doesn't mean he's a muscle player inside. with his almost non-existent traditional post game, he's more like a long athletic small forward with his midrange and drive and dunk game.

[Ring_Wanted]

Maybe we are not talking about the same. When I say power, I mean the ability to score on double teams no matter how hard they try to help it, something very different from the typical post game someone like Randolph has.

From a defender point of view, there are few Cs who can match up Amare's quickness, while the same few PFs can equal his strenght.

[sunsdotcom]

Maybe we are not talking about the same. When I say power, I mean the ability to score on double teams no matter how hard they try to help it

it's more (hangtime + touch) than power, ring.

[k_kwan]

So far this season, Howard has the better record and far better stats. And he doesn’t have Steve Nash to help him to that record. Although he does have the advantage of playing in the East, he has actually had a tougher schedule so far; according to Sagarin (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nba0708.htm), the Magic have had the 13th most difficult schedule so far, and the Suns 24th.


Cap you misunderstand me, I mean Amare has the better record for victories head to head PHX vs. ORL. And better stat lines in those meetings up until these past few meetings.

[Mori_Chu]

Don't be such a homer, k_kwan. Dwight Howard is having an absolute monster season. Almost every game the guy seems a threat to get 30 points and 20 rebounds. And he destroyed Amare in terms of their one-on-one battle the other night. Right now, Howard is unequivocally the better player, and no Suns fan in his right mind wouldn't trade Amare for him straight up.

I agree that Amare has some skills Howard doesn't have, and that Amare isn't 100% so it is not a totally fair comparison. But D How is WAY better than Amare this season, and that's a simple fact.

[k_kwan]

UM its not being about a homer,

Ive been merely stating that its too ealy in the season to call that out Mori. Amare is still getting back into shape. Amare has and is leading in victories in head to head match ups as well as the stat sheet until these previous two to three games

How is stating the obvious and the logical being a homer?

I have not said Amare is the greatest big the league has ever seen, I havent said Amare is better than Dwight. I have been constatntly and simply saying it is far too soon in the season and in both of their careers to say who is better than the other.

Dwight is a beast of a player who is has an insane amount of physcial tools at his disposal. He has things over Amare as Amare does over Howard.

[Mori_Chu]

Fine, but even though it is early in the season, you can still say things about the way they have played so far. Howard is having a monster season. So far, Amare isn't. Howard is healthy. So far, Amare isn't.

I'm not totally dismissing Amare as a player. I still hope that he will recover fully from his knee troubles and get back to what we want him to be. But you also can't dismiss the amazing run Howard is on.

[TexSUN]

Thanks, Sose, for adding the embed functionality!

Here's one of the Amare block:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4hjqd7zsgo

[bobster]

you have to take a few things into consideration when you compate howard and amare -

1 - they are completely diofferent types of players. amare is more skilled away from the hoop and has better quickness, howard plays around the basket and has tremendous strength.

2 - howard is the focus of orlando's offense much more than amare is for phoenix. howard really only has to share shots with turkoglu, lewis and to a lesser degree, nelson; stoudemire has to share the ball with nash, marion, barbosa, hill and bell. the suns have a much more balances offence than orlando - and i think amare and the offense would benefit from him getting the ball more.

3 - howard plays a lot more minutes a game [38.2] than amare does [27.9], in part because of amare working his way into shape and also because of his frequent foul trouble. so when you look at their production per 48 it's not as big a disparity -

rebounds - howard 18.8, amare 14.4
scoring - howard 29.9, amare 32.0
assists - howard 1.8, amare 1.2
blocks - howard 3.3, amare 3.3
steals - howard 0.9, amare 1.7
fg% - howard .618, amare .527
ft% - howard .607, amare .773

howard's only clear advantages are in rebounding and scoring around the basket, but amare's fg% has been on the rise so i don't see him shooting that much highter a percentage when all is said and done.

but i'll say this - howard's contract extension is a bargain, he's going to be a great one for the next 12-15 years.