Game Day: Rockets @ Suns

[sunsdotcom]

will our style continue to render yao ming ineffective?

[Mori_Chu]

T-Mac is back for this one, right? That mildly concerns me -- he always plays well against us -- but I still think we'll pull out the win. I still don't think the Rockets are real contenders.

Losing this game would make me worry. We have been playing fairly poorly overall IMO, but we've mostly been winning, so I could live with it. Golden State was white hot, so I can forgive that loss. But if we lose this one, I think it'd be a sign that we're not the team we claim to be.

[singh]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Dis (dot-thing) cuss

[JackArse]

hint to the suns. STOP LUTHER HEAD DAMMIT.

and that other little known guy who always lights up against us (see? always the A game.. )

[Superbone]

Losing this game would make me worry.

No. What, you worry?

And sorry singh but that's not good enough:

Dis∙cuss

[Superbone]

Oh yeah, and one other thing:

Hot the road T Mac daddy.

[Immortal]

Suns will win.

[Superbone]

Suns will win.

The Immortal one has spoken.

[LazarusLong]

1)Push the pace to render Yao Ming a non-factor

2) Make T-Mac work for each and every point.

Do those two things and the Suns will win.

Head and James got more touches last time because TM was out of the lineup.

[Dammit]

STOP LUTHER HEAD DAMMIT.



Leave everything to me!

[Nashfan]

STOP LUTHER HEAD DAMMIT.



Leave everything to me!

:lol: :lol:

[AmareIsGod]

My pessamist prediction:

T-Mac and Yao are just too much for us. Amare jumps like a legless Vietnam war vet. Nash's back problems escilate into his spine turning into a question mark, literally, and he collapses into paralysis. Skinner leaves the Suns at halftime to join Lynard Skynard and take over for the lead singer after he dies, tragically, in a plane crash, reminiscent of his brother. Suns lose by 17.

Optimistic fan enjoying the game:
Suns win by 11. Too much firepower and Yao starts gassing midway through the 3rd quarter. GO SUNS!

[JackArse]

STOP LUTHER HEAD DAMMIT.



Leave everything to me!

i lol'd at work.

oh.. and rafer alston. that's the other one i couldn't think of..

head and alston. they go off on us everytime, and mac and yao do nothing. blarg.

last night sucked. no sports. =( but i did get to watch house.

[Mori_Chu]

In the interest of being positive: I still think we will win this game. We match up well with Houston. I love watching Yao tugging at his shorts halfway through the 3rd quarter, completely unable to keep up with his man. It's a thing of beauty.

And, by the way: God bless NBA League Pass. I signed up, and it's seriously changed my life. I Tivo every game, and I watch them start to finish, poring over every play. It really lets me become the obsessive Suns fan I have always wanted to be. It may not seem like it because of my pessimism, but I thoroughly enjoy watching our guys play each game. I really feel like I can be along for the ride this season and be in touch with how the team is doing. Good times.

GOOOOOOOOO SUNS!


P.S. Lebron and the Cavs beat the Celtics in OT. Wow; good game. I saw a few Celtics games on League Pass, and honestly I'm not that sold on them. They are a great team, certainly, but I don't think they're nearly the juggernaut everybody is rushing to proclaim them. (I still like them better than the Cavs, though...)

[Nodack]

In the interest of being of sound mind, I don't like to make predictions. Tracy back in the lineup with Yao makes them a force to be reckoned with and any team can beat any other team on any given night yada, yada, yada. Having said that, I agree that I enjoy watching Yao gasping for air in the latter stages of the game. Battier and Hill guarding each other as good friends should be a good matchup to watch.

Suns at home after getting their hats handed to them should give the edge to the Suns.

[ShelC]

League Pass is great isnt it?

The Celtics are as good as any team ive seen simply because of the Big 3. Those guys, being the vets they are, know how to play off each other not unlike some of our guys. I question whether their role players can hold up for the season and then be able to step up in the playoffs. I like Rondo but am unsure whether he can be the PG for those vets and make the necessary decisions in crunch time and in the playoffs. They still dont have another solid big man, relying on rookie Glen Davis (whos skilled but a rookie nonetheless), Perkins (another young, relatively inexperienced player) and Pollard (good vet but injury and foul prone). Posey can be a good role player, House can go either way depending on how well hes shooting but he hasnt really gone off yet this year because they rely on him for playmaking, and TonyAllen wants to gun and play his own game it seems.

For the Cs, it really will be a matter of how far those 3 guys can take them.

[darrkin]

Celts are decent, but I could see one or two of the big three gettin the injury bug as they are getting up there in nba mileage

[LazarusLong]

Celts are decent, but I could see one or two of the big three gettin the injury bug as they are getting up there in nba mileage

My guess is Ray Allen's minutes need to be monitored, sooner rather than later...

[sose]

ugh... cannot watch.. until tomorrow night..

Go suns.. have to play better than monday.

[Superbone]

For whatever reason, the Suns never seem to play well on Mondays. We'll play much better tonight. Worm could probably provide us the stats on what days we don't play as well.

[SunsRIt]

Amare jumps like a legless Vietnam war vet.

Lieutenant Dan!

[k_kwan]

Great dunk by Amare over Yao.

[DrSublime]

why cant they make a shot in the 2nd quarter?

[SunsFan4Life]

God we suck without Nash

[ShelC]

We cut the lead down by pickin it up defensively. Shawn was a huge catalyst, Stevie looks like hes willing the team offensively. We've been settling for too many jumpers, and Houstons gotten back in transition until recently. We were terrible without Stevie, Hill has been non-existent. We've been fianlly getting some boards and playing better defense with Skinner and amare out there. I like that combo. Yaos played a lot of minutes, which means we havent been running like we want.

[FurlanFufi]

I'm watching on broadband...fsn houston...bunch of homies...

[ShelC]

Should be a 1pt game but Shawn missed 3 of 4 FTs in the last 2 minutes. Good energy to end the half, Skinners playing Yao well, Amare flushed it on Yao to end the half. We can beat him, especially if Raja and Hill are right for the 2nd half. Hill took a fall cuz the refs are letting it go on both ends, and was favoring his back a bit. Raja needs to just shoot. Let it fly RaRa.

[Wormwood]

I can't tell you how important defending the three point line is. Based on correlation analysis I've done in the past there's a very strong relationship between how many 3's you let your opponents shoot and how many games you win. Problem for usis the more you let your opponent have, the more likely they are to win. Wonder if any stats geeks have ever pointed this out to D'Antoni?

Houston's announcers ar a bunch of homers.

[Immortal]

These Rockette announcers are nearly as bad as Leander.

[UOducks4life]

I came here just to say the same thing..

[SunsFan4Life]

I use to Hate Francis when he was with Houston the 1st time.

I realized tonight I hate just as much now.

The Rockets announcers act like he is god...

[sose]

we cannot seem to play really well for any long stretch of time.. Either we"ll score well or defend well, but not at the same time.. Except for that 1 run we had to get back in the game a bit..

Amare took the 3rd quarter off offensively, but he is picking it up in the 4th.

[UOducks4life]

How was that not a foul on Yao? So what if Nash was trying to draw the foul. Yao still plowed right through him.

[darrkin]

Amare with yet another stupid foul....grr..this is gonna be a squeaker...doesnt seem to be our night we seem a bit slow

[cap]

I’ll try looking at the glass as half full.

The loss was under double digits this time, so we’re making real progress!

[UOducks4life]

The Rockettes just took that game away from the Suns who looked like they could care less if they lost. Next.

[FurlanFufi]

Amare just seems DUMB out there
Marion absolutely free, he dribbles to the middle and loses the ball.....

[sose]

and we're done..

[darrkin]

We suck...no1 wcan make a money shot other than Nash or Stat

[SwingMan]

If you play like a collective bitch, expect to get treated like one - both by the opponent AND the refs.

:roll:

Now, tell me there ain't a thing to worry about.....

[darrkin]

no real passion tonight, looks like they wanted it more...Diaw sucks, I've almost had it with him or her, he constantly has little guys on him and he cant take it to the rack...that was killing us.....Raja has not been giving us much lately either, but i still like him. Barbs had an off night, so did Grant. You need to make open shots against bigger teams or guess what happens

[darrkin]

I get the feeling if we can keep Marion, Grant, Stat and Nash, everyone else is expendable..oh I also really like Skinner-what a bargain he is..our bench is horrible..we need some shooters and some atheletic guys to take it strong, Diaw cant and wont do it

[SunsFan4Life]

What was that? Horrible execution down the stretch. Not Sure wtf Amare was doing on that last play he had 2 seperate chances to drive in and basically dunk it but heisitated both times(despite that undoubtly being a foul on Francis at the end). But then they just allow Houston then to get a layup?

Seriosuly even if we won this game we played AWFUL. Particularly the supporting cast.

-Hill for the 2nd game in a row was kinda non-existant on offense. Some good D on T-mac though.

-Bell and Barbosa were pretty bad.

-Nash didnt trust anyone outside of Amare in the 4th.

-Last 2mins was awful execution. I dunno if they don't remember but Steve Francis is a terrible outside shooter Let him have the 3pt shot I would stand away from him about 10 feet. Nash Forcing, I mean No One else was really doing anythng on O cept him and Amare, but gotta trust your teammates Steve.

We need antoher guy to eat up some mintues you can't tell me we didnt look fatigured tonight because I think we definitly did. Whether it be DJ or Even Banks out there doing nothing but Hill looked Drained. Barbosa looked tired and even Shawn Looked Gas. Not far to play those guys 38mins a night consistantly playing at this pace.

[Wormwood]

Not sure we have the guys to execute D'Antoni's strategy right now. Houston just punked us on our own home court. This is a slow team, and one we beat by almost 45 two years ago.

This game was going to be something of a barometer, and we failed. The lingering feeling that something isn't quite right is a recurring one, and it's looking more and more like there's something fundamentally wrong. Our weak opponents hav just served to mask it somewhat.

[darrkin]

What was that? Horrible execution down the stretch. Not Sure wtf Amare was doing on that last play he had 2 seperate chances to drive in and basically dunk it but heisitated both times(despite that undoubtly being a foul on Francis at the end). But then they just allow Houston then to get a layup?

Seriosuly even if we won this game we played AWFUL. Particularly the supporting cast.

-Hill for the 2nd game in a row was kinda non-existant on offense. Some good D on T-mac though.

-Bell and Barbosa r pretty bad.

-Nash didnt trust anyone outside of Amare in the 4th.

-Last 2mins was awful execution. I dunno if they don't remember but Steve Francis is a terrible outside shooter Let him have the 3pt shot I would stand away from him about 10 feet. Nash Forcing, I mean No One else was really doing anythng on O cept him and Amare, but gotta trust your teammates Steve.

We need antoher guy to eat up some mintues you can't tell me we didnt look fatigured tonight because I think we definitly did. Whether it be DJ or Even Banks out there doing nothing but Hill looked Drained. Barbosa looked tired and even Shawn Looked Gas. Not far to play those guys 38mins a night consistantly playing at this pace.

yup...this game reminded me of the Lakers game except we were not blown out as bad...just our cutting and energy was non existant

[ShelC]

The Rockets exposed a lot of flaws tonight. They got back in transition, played the 3pt line well (running barbs and raja off, letting shawn shoot), played the pick and roll well and workeD Yao in the post. The key is Yao staying in the game. He looked worn down by the middle of the 4th, but we need that in the middle of the 2nd.

Boris was nowhere to be found. Hill never found a rhythm. What happened to shooting some 3s? Run to the corner!

Barbs has been off the past 2 games. Does he start?

Ive noticed a lot of fumbling of the basketball by Shawn and Amare. Not sure what this is about...

Also, i like the no call on Francis' walk on that final layup that put the game away.

[SunsFan4Life]

We still absolutley Suck when Nash goes out. I thought Hill was suppose to solve that? is there a Plan B? Cause when he goes out we seem asbolutely lost. It's either Give the Ball to Barbosa and have him dribble through the Whole D(Which he does sometimes) or Get Boris on a switch with a little guy so he can dribble it into the paint and then fling it out to Halfcourt with 6 on the shot clock.

We need another F'n playmaker The Rebounding didnt even kill us tonight.

[Nashfan]

Why in the hell aren't we running in these last two games? Nash is running, but no one else is running with him. Marion keeps parking his butt at the three point line instead of running up the middle for an easy basket from Nash. We looked like we decided to play their type of game and we all know we are not good at playing half court. I didn't even see Yao grabbing his shorts tonight. What was with Barbosa only scoring on two baskets and Diaw totally sucked in every area. I think Hill was two of eight!! Three people cannot do all the scoring, no ball movement what so ever. Where was that beautiful ball movement that we had against the Kings and even the Clippers?? Don't get me started on the lack of defense!! Okay, end of my rant!

[darrkin]

The sky isnt falling, but we need to make some sort of change if we really think this team is gonna go all the way. Raja cant start anymore over Barbs for starters, hes not as good anymore....he used to catch and shoot, now he hesitates and passes, messing up the timing. Diaw is not really developing into what we wanted. We also have no bench other than Skinner. May be time to move Marion and some other pieces and go for another look. I really dont think this current team is good enough. Not enough pure shooters or athletes to make it a super high scoring run and gun anymore. Even Marion seems to have lost a small step, he cant handle the ball as well anymore, comes up short on a lot of those runners he used to make....We are a playoff team and a good one at that, but no way we will win it all unless we get a couple more pieces

[SunsFan4Life]

Also, i like the no call on Francis' walk on that final layup that put the game away

I KNOW RIGHT! I was like wasn't that a walk or did my eyes just decieve me. Amare shoulda got to the line at the end as well. But Whatever shouldnt of came down to that. I acually Thought r D was pretty good tonight We didn't let T-mac go off but for some reason we kept closing out on Francis which is like a Huge NO NO. His outside shot particulary his 3pt shot is AWFUL. He has got to be shooting in the low 30% in 3's.

These are the kinda games that kill me...I know Mike D's thought process in not starting Leandro
A-He could get into foul trouble real early
B-If you start him we don't really have any scoring or playmaking ability coming off the bench. He's are 2nd best playmaker Bell is more of a shooter and Boris passes up layups. I would acually rather did what they did last ur and start a guy like DJ. at the 2 maybe shift Bell to the 3 and Have Hill and Barbs come off the bench giving that 2nd unit some more punch.

[darrkin]

The Rockets exposed a lot of flaws tonight. They got back in transition, played the 3pt line well (running barbs and raja off, letting shawn shoot), played the pick and roll well and workeD Yao in the post. The key is Yao staying in the game. He looked worn down by the middle of the 4th, but we need that in the middle of the 2nd.

Boris was nowhere to be found. Hill never found a rhythm. What happened to shooting some 3s? Run to the corner!

Barbs has been off the past 2 games. Does he start?

Ive noticed a lot of fumbling of the basketball by Shawn and Amare. Not sure what this is about...

Also, i like the no call on Francis' walk on that final layup that put the game away.

i was so pissed at game i didnt rewind my tivo but i thought he walked..good point. Someday, when we are all dead and our children watch NBA they will use technology and instant replay like every single other sport in the world and guess what games will be accurate...

we still woulda and shoulda lost the game though..piss poor effort other than maybe stat, nash and skinner

[y2jjedipimp]

thank god i was playing Rock Band for teh majority of this game...i watched the end and am watching the recording of it..noticing a few things

Steve Francis travels just about everytime he has teh ball...refs are treating him like hes a 3rd grader just starting to learn the game of basketball and letting him take extra steps because ohh its cute and hes still learning.

Suns played with no energy...

Barbosa is terrible right now.

There just seems to be something wrong with the team right now...there just isnt that spark...i dunno what it is..it kid of fells like we've hit our ceiling...i dunno...im sure im wrong but it just doesnt seem like were getting better...normally im saying stuff like this out of frustration but i didnt have to endure the whole game so im being pretty level headed.

Marion is playing his ass off...whether its pride or if its for his next contract

I'm starting to think maybe Amare is our weakness...I dunno...maybe his defensive liability is affecting the team more than his offense...l

hopefully were just in a lull and we get over the hump...im just not convinced were as good as our record shows if that makes any sense

[SunsFan4Life]

The sky isnt falling, but we need to make some sort of change if we really think this team is gonna go all the way. Raja cant start anymore over Barbs for starters, hes not as good anymore....he used to catch and shoot, now he hesitates and passes, messing up the timing. Diaw is not really developing into what we wanted. We also have no bench other than Skinner. May be time to move Marion and some other pieces and go for another look. I really dont think this current team is good enough. Not enough pure shooters or athletes to make it a super high scoring run and gun anymore. Even Marion seems to have lost a small step, he cant handle the ball as well anymore, comes up short on a lot of those runners he used to make....We are a playoff team and a good one at that, but no way we will win it all unless we get a couple more pieces

Yes the sky isn't falling but i hate losing to the Rockets.
And yes we have a good bench but almost all the scoring from r bench is brought by Leandro if he starts we get Skinners 4pts,Bells 2 3's and a coin toss whether Diaw shows up or not coming off of it. If your gonna start Leandro you need another Playmaker off that bench. I'm not a big Banks guy but the guy had 1 bad gm and lost all his minutes I mean jeeze I htought he played great against Sacto..we need to go to 9 guys I watched Dallas the other night and they played 12 guys I mean Jeeze.

The Supporting Cast Blew tonight How many of r pts did Trix/Stat/Nash Score had to be like 85% or somthing esp. with Barbs off.

[SunsFan4Life]

My 3 concerns coming into the season:

1.We need another Big

2.We Need another Playmaker

3.We need another Shooter

Skinner has suprisingly fille din nicely as that other Big.

Shooting hasn't been as big of a concern but that's only cuase Barbs was white hot in that 8gm win streak. Really if he's off and Raja is hurting right now..Hill doesn't shoot 3's..Marion is a crap shoot from there...there isn't a guy like James Jones who we can give a heat check to.

Another Playmaker. Jeeze we need one bad! G.Hill looked tired the last 2 gms and is more of a finisher then a creater I think. We Need that 3rd guy who can create off the dribble like Barbs and Nash. If we can get a guy like that who can also knock down the long ball we can solve 2 problems with 1 guy. who is it? I have no idea.

[darrkin]

If Coach D is canned...it will be the lack of using any players. Can you imagine how bad we would look right now without Nash? I dont know just seems like we are a one man show...Kerr is a very smart guy, if us idiots are noticing these things and they continue changes will occur. How many rings does Kerr have? did his teams have a bench?

[ShelC]

We need more shooters. Amare looked more than disinterested at times on defense and even offense which irked me. He also messed up the spacing a few times by just chasing after the ball looking to screen, or just standing and watching.

With the 2nd unit, no one wants to shoot. Diaw is passing it off, Hill is passing it off...take a shot!

[darrkin]

My 3 concerns coming into the season:

1.We need another Big

2.We Need another Playmaker

3.We need another Shooter

Skinner has suprisingly fille din nicely as that other Big.

Shooting hasn't been as big of a concern but that's only cuase Barbs was white hot in that 8gm win streak. Really if he's off and Raja is hurting right now..Hill doesn't shoot 3's..Marion is a crap shoot from there...there isn't a guy like James Jones who we can give a heat check to.

Another Playmaker. Jeeze we need one bad! G.Hill looked tired the last 2 gms and is more of a finisher then a creater I think. We Need that 3rd guy who can create off the dribble like Barbs and Nash. If we can get a guy like that who can also knock down the long ball we can solve 2 problems with 1 guy. who is it? I have no idea.

good points, i concurr.....we sorta miss that Eddie House kinda guy

[Coop]

Cleveland looks to be open to a sign and trade with Varejao. Could we work up some kind of package with Banks? I believe they were looking for a point guard.

I also think coach really needs to give DJ a shot out there at the point. He did farely well prior to the season running the point. Lets see what he can do with it.

[INFORMER]

I get the feeling if we can keep Marion, Grant, Stat and Nash, everyone else is expendable..

Except for Barbosa, you've mentioned all the players that have trade value. And I don't see the Suns trading Barbosa. I don't see how the Suns improve if they move him.



We still absolutley Suck when Nash goes out.

You know, I was thinking, due to the nature of Mike D's system, the Suns need to put a premimum on acquiring another high-level point guard. I would compare it to a football team whose bread and butter is to run the football. That team is going to have to have two high level running backs, like Ladanian Tomlinson and Michael Turner. In the case of the Suns, I'd look to get Andre Miller.


Not sure we have the guys to execute D'Antoni's strategy right now.

That was my concern coming into this season. I looked at the roster and just didn't feel we had the guns to use DA's system to win a chamionship.

[INFORMER]

If Coach D is canned

That's not happening this season. I'm not sure if it would happen if the Suns didn't win another game this season.

[SwingMan]

With the 2nd unit, no one wants to shoot. Diaw is passing it off, Hill is passing it off...take a shot!

I'm pretty sure that Diaw's getting his ass lambasted this evening.

His last play was in the 3rd Q with an uncontested lane for a lay-up, 5 feet away - and he kicked it out to the arc, at which time D'Antoni FINALLY showed some stones, IMMEDIATELY yanked Boris and sat his ass the rest of the game.

Agreed that that play right there pretty much epitomized the Suns as a whole tonight.

[Coop]

I guess I just really like Varejao, he is a big hustle player. He is asking for alot but look at what we paid Boris....

Here is a good little video on him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJRqhTxkLec

[AZSportsFan]

Barbosa was terrible tonight! Just absolute garbage. Not gonna win many when only a small few come to play.

Yes, I Know, the Suns will never win again. Wil NEVER win a championship. So what?

[JediSkywalker]

Dantoni is so bull headed he cannot think any other way. The bench was not producing and he stuck with the same 8 guys. The top 3 actually were productive. Why couldn't Dantoni try a couple other players in the rotation? It is plain stupid to use only 8 guys this realy in the season. DJ desrves a chance to play when things are not working out. Where was Banks tonight?

[JediSkywalker]

I guess I just really like Varejao, he is a big hustle player. He is asking for alot but look at what we paid Boris....

Here is a good little video on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJRqhTxkLec

I heaed he wants Diaw -like money. The Suns cannot afford that unless they are able to deal Boris.

[JediSkywalker]

The Rockets exposed a lot of flaws tonight. They got back in transition, played the 3pt line well (running barbs and raja off, letting shawn shoot), played the pick and roll well and workeD Yao in the post. The key is Yao staying in the game. He looked worn down by the middle of the 4th, but we need that in the middle of the 2nd.

Boris was nowhere to be found. Hill never found a rhythm. What happened to shooting some 3s? Run to the corner!

Barbs has been off the past 2 games. Does he start?

Ive noticed a lot of fumbling of the basketball by Shawn and Amare. Not sure what this is about...

Also, i like the no call on Francis' walk on that final layup that put the game away.

LB was horrible and that really hurt the Suns. Last 2 games the Suns have looked awful. They could not make key shots. They allowed the other team to score at will in both games.

I still believe the fault belongs to Dantoni for not trying different ways of stoping the Rockets.

[AZSportsFan]

What has really thrown this team for a loop lately has been the "healing" of Raja. He is still terrible, and Barbs has been very flat since being moved back to the bench. Missing wide open shots, layups, easy passes, etc.

[Suns_Dave]

Amare's tentative play in crunch time didn't help matters either.

[JackArse]

from the sounds of it, we should just blow up the entire team cuz they all suck. hell, while we're at it, why not just sell the franchise to okc, then we can get a new franchise that maybe gives a crap.

(sarcasm. it's in there)

the team had an off night, they actually played decent defense. it's the 15th game of the season, there's only eleventy billion games left. like i said previously, we get 82 games a year when other teams bring their A game, we're not going to play 82 games with our A game. it's only the beginning of the season. raja has been hurt, he's trying to get his legs under him still, barbosa has been lights out this entire season and he has one game that he's off and he's apparently pure garbage now. amare had a couple of smart fouls, and a couple of dumb fouls, by the end of the game he SHOULD try to drive, but can you blame him for his propensity to draw fouls on himself? he already 5 if i remember right, and well i think if the game had gone to ot, he might have needed to play there too. grant hill was missing shots he normally makes, apparently his back or something was feeling a little tight, so that might been part of it.
nash started taking the shots himself, and well.. when that happens it's because he doesn't have faith in the others making the shots because they're just off that night. marion looked a lil dogged out there, i really think he's finally hitting that wall where his athleticsm meets his age, it couldn't last forever.

the main problem i had with the team tonight though, they were settling for 20+ ft jumpers way too early in the count. it'd be at like 20 sec on the shot clock and rather than move it around a bit first, they would just take the outside shot when it wasn't necessary, and when you're off, that outside shot is a danger.

amazingly, i had no problem with the refs, a copule of bad calls on either side which is to be expected, but it wasn't particulary one sided like we normally see with this team.

not saying i'm happy with the team tonight, but it's only game 15 of an 82 game season.

carry on.

[v9]

What has really thrown this team for a loop lately has been the "healing" of Raja. He is still terrible, and Barbs has been very flat since being moved back to the bench. Missing wide open shots, layups, easy passes, etc.

Put Barbosa back in the starting lineup. Bring Raja off the bench.

[Split_T's]

Marion had a pretty impressive stat line, 18 pts 8 reb 4 assists 5 stl 4 blk

[Xcon]

from the sounds of it, we should just blow up the entire team cuz they all suck. hell, while we're at it, why not just sell the franchise to okc, then we can get a new franchise that maybe gives a crap.

(sarcasm. it's in there)

the team had an off night, they actually played decent defense. it's the 15th game of the season, there's only eleventy billion games left. like i said previously, we get 82 games a year when other teams bring their A game, we're not going to play 82 games with our A game. it's only the beginning of the season. raja has been hurt, he's trying to get his legs under him still, barbosa has been lights out this entire season and he has one game that he's off and he's apparently pure garbage now. amare had a couple of smart fouls, and a couple of dumb fouls, by the end of the game he SHOULD try to drive, but can you blame him for his propensity to draw fouls on himself? he already 5 if i remember right, and well i think if the game had gone to ot, he might have needed to play there too. grant hill was missing shots he normally makes, apparently his back or something was feeling a little tight, so that might been part of it.
nash started taking the shots himself, and well.. when that happens it's because he doesn't have faith in the others making the shots because they're just off that night. marion looked a lil dogged out there, i really think he's finally hitting that wall where his athleticsm meets his age, it couldn't last forever.

the main problem i had with the team tonight though, they were settling for 20+ ft jumpers way too early in the count. it'd be at like 20 sec on the shot clock and rather than move it around a bit first, they would just take the outside shot when it wasn't necessary, and when you're off, that outside shot is a danger.

amazingly, i had no problem with the refs, a copule of bad calls on either side which is to be expected, but it wasn't particulary one sided like we normally see with this team.

not saying i'm happy with the team tonight, but it's only game 15 of an 82 game season.

carry on.

just more excuses imo. We're not playing like a serious contender plays. Seems like a lot people feel that we have a right to play shitty in the regular season and in doing so that will translate into a great post-season. I don't get it. Don't great teams play great all the time? SAn Antonio may start somewhat slow, but they don't look as pathetic as we have in our losses so far. And can we cut back Grants minutes some now. seems like the guy is playing tired the last couple games. Playing 38 minutes in this system is not like playing 38 minutes in most others. Oh and put barbosa back in the starting lineup and leave him there. I think the coach did a disservice pulling him out. Seems to have thrown off his rhythm.

[SwingMan]

What has really thrown this team for a loop lately has been the "healing" of Raja. He is still terrible, and Barbs has been very flat since being moved back to the bench. Missing wide open shots, layups, easy passes, etc.

Taking a page from MR:

Double-you - oh - are - dee

Babs was in a hell of a rhythm in the starting line-up, Raja's still gimpy. Babs gets the bench, gimpy Raja plays, gives us next to nothing, knocks Babs WAY out of whack.

Anything wrong with this picture?

More in the upcoming news thread.....

[darrkin]

What has really thrown this team for a loop lately has been the "healing" of Raja. He is still terrible, and Barbs has been very flat since being moved back to the bench. Missing wide open shots, layups, easy passes, etc.

Taking a page from MR:

Double-you - oh - are - dee

Babs was in a hell of a rhythm in the starting line-up, Raja's still gimpy. Babs gets the bench, gimpy Raja plays, gives us next to nothing, knocks Babs WAY out of whack.

Anything wrong with this picture?

More in the upcoming news thread.....

after we lose another few games , maybe then the coach or more likely kerr will make barbs start...its been obvious since middle of last year that barbs is now better, period.

[misteradiant]

Another Playmaker. ... We Need that 3rd guy who can create off the dribble like Barbs and Nash. If we can get a guy like that who can also knock down the long ball we can solve 2 problems with 1 guy. who is it? I have no idea.

marcus banks. i've seen him do those things recently.

[Superbone]

We still absolutley Suck when Nash goes out.

You know, I was thinking, due to the nature of Mike D's system, the Suns need to put a premimum on acquiring another high-level point guard. I would compare it to a football team whose bread and butter is to run the football. That team is going to have to have two high level running backs, like Ladanian Tomlinson and Michael Turner. In the case of the Suns, I'd look to get Andre Miller.


To think that we at one time had Kidd, KJ, and Nash as 3rd string backup...

[Mori_Chu]

You know, I was thinking, due to the nature of Mike D's system, the Suns need to put a premimum on acquiring another high-level point guard. ... In the case of the Suns, I'd look to get Andre Miller.

WORD. I agree completely. We do need another passing PG, and I adore Miller. He has a pretty big contract, though. What could we throw at the Sixers that would work? My radical suggestion would be Amare for Miller plus some other nontrivial assets. (Philly would have to sweeten the deal with more to make it worth giving up Amare.) Or maybe Diaw for Miller? Dunno.

[ShelC]

Hey...how about we develop a secondary offense that utilizes the skills of other players not named Stevie...Post up Boris. Post up Grant Hill. Work some sets to get some switches and mismatches for those guys. Run Barbs off some screens. Some traditional halfcourt sets that frees up Raja, Barbs?

No one can duplicate what Stevie does. He is the system and if we havent figured tht out by now that we're either stupid or ignorant. Theres no reason why you cant send Banks out there and tell him bring the ball over halfcourt and dump it into Amare or Boris and cut thru to the opposite corner, the rest of the guys balance out the floor and our post guy either looks to score or waits for the double team to come to kick it out. Plenty of other teams do that and have success with it.

[SunsRIt]

How about working on the half-court game with Amare as the main option when Nash is out. He was drawing fouls and getting to the line pretty well last night. I don't think they are giving him enough touches.

[desertcoast]

How about working on the half-court game with Amare as the main option when Nash is out. He was drawing fouls and getting to the line pretty well last night. I don't think they are giving him enough touches.

i think they need to run a few of those sets even when Nash is on the floor, just to keep things mixed up a bit. (That would actually require D'Antoni calling some plays now and then.....oh the humanity...)

Otherwise, we're too easy to read based on Nash's presence in the lineup.
D'antoni could keep the defensive coordinators off kilter by slipping those in at any given moment. We have the right players to do it....

Oh, and world peace would be cool too. :lol:

[Phoenix219]

We still absolutley Suck when Nash goes out.

You know, I was thinking, due to the nature of Mike D's system, the Suns need to put a premimum on acquiring another high-level point guard. I would compare it to a football team whose bread and butter is to run the football. That team is going to have to have two high level running backs, like Ladanian Tomlinson and Michael Turner. In the case of the Suns, I'd look to get Andre Miller.


To think that we at one time had Kidd, KJ, and Nash as 3rd string backup...


Thats funny, i've been thinking a lot about that team lately. I've been hangin out at a buddies house and the newest video game they have is an N64, and the game is a konami basketball simulation. The suns lineup in that game is: Kidd, KJ, Chapman, Robinson, McDyess, with Hot Rod, Nash, McCloud, Ceballos, etc (i dont' remember if manning was still there) on the bench. If MyDyess hadn't screwed us, we could have had a very strong Suns team - but the NBA climate was different in those days. Heres the question, open for debate (and fantasy) -----

How well do you think that team would have done if it was running the 04-07 Suns system, with Coach D'Antoni at the helm? Uncle Cliffy as the shooting bigman, McDyess in the post like Amare, a streak shooter like Chapman taking Raja's spot at the 2-3 with less defense; A defensive big off the bench (hot rod), some marion-style spark in ceballos, a 3 pt gunner in McCloud, the triple double machine that was JKidd pushing the tempo WITH KJ in a 2 pronged PG attack with some youth and speed off the bench in terms of Nash backing them up... what do ya'll think?

[sunsdotcom]

You know, I was thinking, due to the nature of Mike D's system, the Suns need to put a premimum on acquiring another high-level point guard.

either that, or you you find more athletic players from the 2,3,4 who are better ballhandlers than the ones we currently have.

the starting 5 from GS are younger and faster than ours (especially at the 1-2-3 spot) and their starters collectively are better at creating their own shots in the open court than ours--because of their ballhandling skills.

if marion had decent ballhandling, he'd be a one-man fastbreak... imagine him grabbing the rebound and going coast to coast for the slam ala barkley, but at supersonic speeds... but sadly that is not the case.

[sunsdotcom]

Hey...how about we develop a secondary offense that utilizes the skills of other players not named Stevie...Post up Boris. Post up Grant Hill. Work some sets to get some switches and mismatches for those guys. Run Barbs off some screens. Some traditional halfcourt sets that frees up Raja, Barbs?

okay. but we better get rid of d'antoni first. ;)

[Mori_Chu]

The suns lineup in that game is: Kidd, KJ, Chapman, Robinson, McDyess, with Hot Rod, Nash, McCloud, Ceballos, etc (i dont' remember if manning was still there) on the bench.

Did we not yet have Marion then?

Also, I agree that we need more plays and a better inside-outside strategy when Nash is out. But our coach has had years to institute such a thing, and he hasn't. Isn't it clear by now that Steve Nash is the one really running and coaching this team? Mike D is mostly a motivator and manager of these players, not a brilliant in-game strategist.

Coach does some things very well, but he is completely incapable of looking beyond the present game, he never plays his bench, he's stubborn as hell, he calls almost no plays, and he has absolutely no plan for what to do when Nash sits. When Nash is hurt our team becomes completely pathetic and has no strategy whatsoever.

Mike D'Antoni has got to go.

[darrkin]

a little harsh, but you may be on to something if we come up short again this year due to basically the same lack of any depth

[JediSkywalker]

The suns lineup in that game is: Kidd, KJ, Chapman, Robinson, McDyess, with Hot Rod, Nash, McCloud, Ceballos, etc (i dont' remember if manning was still there) on the bench.

Did we not yet have Marion then?

Also, I agree that we need more plays and a better inside-outside strategy when Nash is out. But our coach has had years to institute such a thing, and he hasn't. Isn't it clear by now that Steve Nash is the one really running and coaching this team? Mike D is mostly a motivator and manager of these players, not a brilliant in-game strategist.

Coach does some things very well, but he is completely incapable of looking beyond the present game, he never plays his bench, he's stubborn as hell, he calls almost no plays, and he has absolutely no plan for what to do when Nash sits. When Nash is hurt our team becomes completely pathetic and has no strategy whatsoever.

Mike D'Antoni has got to go.

Sad but true. The guy refuses to learn from his mistakes. He is doing the same thing again- not using the bench, and this rime with older players. The Suns are already looking tired. I don't see this team winning the championship this season and it will be OK to fire Dantoni for that reason. He has been given plenty of chances. This city deserves an NBA title and Dantoni is not going to bring it- not this season or the next or the next.

[OE]

The problem is not as simple as D'Antoni. It's age, injury, lack of outside shooting - lethargy, basically. A lot of it has to do with the fact that Amare has lost that spring that made him so devastating an inside presence. If he got that back, a lot of our inadequacies would be mitigated.

It's not the fault of the fans that we're not excited by this team. This team is not very exciting. They remind me of Sacramento after the refs robbed them in the WCF vs. the Lakers and Webber got injured.

If we pull this thing together, it will be because we start relying on Amare for our offense instead of Nash exclusively. And if we rely on Amare for our offense, we need a center to defend the interior. Amare can't be Malone on offense and Ostertag on defense. If Malone, Barkley, etc. had Marion as the next biggest player in the line-up, they too would foul out every game.

... You know, Nash, Hill, Barbosa, Bell, and Amare all seem fit to run a devastating half-court offense. As well as Marion's playing, maybe it's not insane to try to trade him for a center. Of course, it's too early to make that kind of change. If we're still struggling in a month, we'll know we've lost the magic.

[DrSublime]

who here wished the suns had signed Okur a few years back like they wanted too.

[Phoenix219]

Mori, we didn't have Marion yet that year - didn't we get him from the draft pick included in the Nash-to-Dallas trade?

[SwingMan]

Mori, we didn't have Marion yet that year - didn't we get him from the draft pick included in the Nash-to-Dallas trade?

On draft day, 1998, we traded Steve Nash to Dallas for G Bubba Wells, F Martin Muursepp, the draft rights to Pat Garrity and an unprotected 1st rounder in 1999 (#9 overall) - which turned out to be Shawn Marion.

[LazarusLong]

It's not the fault of the fans that we're not excited by this team. This team is not very exciting. They remind me of Sacramento after the refs robbed them in the WCF vs. the Lakers and Webber got injured.

If we pull this thing together, it will be because we start relying on Amare for our offense instead of Nash exclusively. And if we rely on Amare for our offense, we need a center to defend the interior. Amare can't be Malone on offense and Ostertag on defense. If Malone, Barkley, etc. had Marion as the next biggest player in the line-up, they too would foul out every game.

... You know, Nash, Hill, Barbosa, Bell, and Amare all seem fit to run a devastating half-court offense.

This is a damn good take, one of the better overviews I've read in awhile.
Props ...

[ShelC]

Barbosa and Amare seem to content to play one on one when theyre relied on to carry the offense. Both are great offensive players, but individually. Still, i'd rather see Amare getting Iso'd and attacking his man (and possibly getting him in foul trouble) rather than Barbs. A few post ups wouldnt hurt either. Against the clips, we posted up Hill regularly when he had Cassell on his hip. One of the few times ive ever seen us exploit something in the post. Not sure why we wont do that with Amare, unless MikeD feels Amare wont ever pass out of the post to teammates or force a shot or create a TO by not reacting properly to the double team....

[tbrkingofthesouth]

The problem is not as simple as D'Antoni. It's age, injury, lack of outside shooting - lethargy, basically. A lot of it has to do with the fact that Amare has lost that spring that made him so devastating an inside presence. If he got that back, a lot of our inadequacies would be mitigated.

It's not the fault of the fans that we're not excited by this team. This team is not very exciting. They remind me of Sacramento after the refs robbed them in the WCF vs. the Lakers and Webber got injured.

If we pull this thing together, it will be because we start relying on Amare for our offense instead of Nash exclusively. And if we rely on Amare for our offense, we need a center to defend the interior. Amare can't be Malone on offense and Ostertag on defense. If Malone, Barkley, etc. had Marion as the next biggest player in the line-up, they too would foul out every game.

... You know, Nash, Hill, Barbosa, Bell, and Amare all seem fit to run a devastating half-court offense. As well as Marion's playing, maybe it's not insane to try to trade him for a center. Of course, it's too early to make that kind of change. If we're still struggling in a month, we'll know we've lost the magic.

Great post

[Ring_Wanted]

Hill on Casell is one thing. Grant has back to the basket moves and is taller than Sam. Also, he can pass. Amare, on the other hand, is not known because of his post moves, and is usually smaller than his defender, tho faster. The fact that he barely gets one assist per game could add to Mike D not using that offensive strategy. The back to the basket game is, along with D (or at least not fouling while not playing it) the two parts of the game I've wanted to see Amare develop probably since he learned to shoot the midrange ball after his second season. For one reason or another, he hasn't, and I hope he starts to really work on it, because if he doesn't, Amare will have serious trouble once Nash is gone or unable to play in more than half the game.

[ShelC]

Amare has flashed some moves when hes gotten the ball in the post. His turnaround is underrated IMO and he put an up and under move on someone a few weeks ago that made me do a double take. Its a give and take situation tho. You have to give Amare these opportunities to make plays in the post before you say he cant/wont do it.

[Ring_Wanted]

Amare has had some offseasons to develop those moves, but he hasn't, at least to the point where we can feed him inside often. The turnaround is maybe the only clear move he has inside. He used to be able to overpower people under the basket, but so far this season it hasn't happened in a constant basis, probably due to not being 100% after this summer surgery. Still, he's far from guys like Randolph or Bosh, who have very good footwork around the basket. I just hope he puts more focus on that area so we can give him the ball inside more when the shots are not falling or the ball movement is not good. It also opens the defenses for easier 3s, but only if Amare can pass the ball..

I don't know. I have the feeling that despite being in the L for 5 years, he is still very unpolished. He's a very good player, I love him and it scares what he could be if he learns post moves and some defense. Sadly, having to recover from injuries and playing for the USA team could be delaying it. I hope he gets there before it's too late.

[OE]

Thanks for the compliments. Guess I struck a chord.


Amare, on the other hand, is not known because of his post moves, and is usually smaller than his defender, tho faster. The fact that he barely gets one assist per game could add to Mike D not using that offensive strategy. The back to the basket game is, along with D (or at least not fouling while not playing it) the two parts of the game I've wanted to see Amare develop probably since he learned to shoot the midrange ball after his second season. For one reason or another, he hasn't, and I hope he starts to really work on it, because if he doesn't, Amare will have serious trouble once Nash is gone or unable to play in more than half the game.

We haven't really gotten to see much of Amare's post-up game because he's always been guarded by a bigger player. I've seen him consistently hit that turn-around J. Off the block, he can turn quickly to the right and he still has the spin move turning left. You're right about the passing, though. Amare's too much of a bulldozer to think of pulling a Boris.

Honestly, though - you look around the league at the other players playing the 4 spot: do you really think they can stop Amare 1-on-1? I think one of the problems with playing Amare at center is the fact that Amare has to start from 16 feet out, and once Amare decides to go to the basket, his defender can just back off and either take the charge or block his shot because Amare's always at a height disadvantage, and he's almost always the only Suns player in the paint when there is one in there at all. He gets more charges than he should because he has no choice but to drive in most situations, and that gives the opponent plenty of time to stuff the lane. Malone wasn't primarily a post-up player and he's scored more points than anyone not named Kareem. I know it would be the death of small ball, but we're no longer a collection of long-bombing spring chickens.

I know, I know. It's blasphemy to think of us running a play other than give Nash or Barbosa the ball and let them run off screens to the basket while everyone else chooses either to cut or hang out on the perimeter. But if we employed the same half-court offense we used against the Spurs in 04-05 (give Amare the ball) and, at the same time, employed a solid half-court defense (with an actual 7-footer patrolling the paint), perhaps we might have won.

I can't imagine a sadder way for this to end than us sticking to the same old plan despite lacking the personnel and losing in the first round to Utah. I'd have to get very drunk, only I have neither a ladder nor a moose.

[ShelC]

Hes not a fluid, balanced basketball player. Hes a monster whos worked very hard on his game, but its becoming more and more obvious that hes not a basketball player, but more a beast who plays basketball. I watched him step out of Francis (i think) in the last game...now obviously he cant guard francis 1on1 on the perimeter. But just his defensive stance was laughable. He was inching out, knees bent shoulder width apart and squared up, with his arms out and palms facing up looking like Frankenstein. Watching it made me cringe and showed me he has no clue about defensive positioning or funneling a smaller perimeter player into the help. Just the stance he was in was ridiculous.

[Ring_Wanted]

That's the key. We lack the guys to keep the run and gun game, specially with Raja injuried and Barbs ice cold. I have praised Mike D before because he played his guys to their strenghts, but this season it's been painful to watch his coaching so far, despite the wins.

If Diaw and Amare could coexist, a lot of problems would be solved, playing Boris at C and Amare at PF, where he can take advantage of any defender in the L both inside or outside. Marion at SF and Hill off the bench with Raja to bring scoring and D.

[Mori_Chu]

I don't know. I have the feeling that despite being in the L for 5 years, he is still very unpolished.

Amare occasionally makes good defensive plays, largely based on his athleticism, but he is still a bad defender. I don't think he gets all those fouls because the refs are targeting him. He gets those fouls because he plays bad defense. And from what I can see, either he isn't really working on this aspect of his game, or we don't have the right coaches in place to help teach him this part of the game.

Amare is also one of our biggest offensive contributors, but he could be much better there as well. He has worked on his jumper, and I'll give him a ton of credit for being a reliable mid-range shooter now. This has helped us a lot. He still knows how to get inside and get his dunks and layups. And I agree that he has an underutilized turnaround shot that falls in surprisingly frequently. But I never see him do jump hooks, spin moves, putbacks ... the kinds of moves that inside players make their living on. He doesn't seem to be working on this at all.

Part of me thinks that Amare Stoudemire just isn't the cornerstone of an NBA championship team. Another part of me wonders whether playing with such a top-flight point guard like Nash retards some aspects of his teammates' offensive development...

[Superbone]

I don't think he gets all those fouls because the refs are targeting him. He gets those fouls because he plays bad defense.

I don't think it's necessarily because of "bad" defense. It's more because he takes silly chances at trying to poke the ball away or trying to block a shot after it's way too late. He just needs to learn to pick his spots and I think he will eventually.

[misteradiant]

agreed.

[Mori_Chu]

I don't think it's necessarily because of "bad" defense. It's more because he takes silly chances at trying to poke the ball away or trying to block a shot after it's way too late. He just needs to learn to pick his spots and I think he will eventually.

I agree with you; it's probably just a question of terminology. I still think of that as "bad" defense. But I understand that it is very different from lethargic defense, or completely incompetent defense, or lack of enough athletic ability to play defense, and so on. Everything you said is true, especially that he will probably "get it" if given more time.

[sunsdotcom]

okay, i finally saw the hou v suns game. amare wasn't that bad. the only play that irritated me was when diaw was underneath the basket and passed out to our three pt shooters instead of doing a reverse layup/dunk.

[JediSkywalker]

okay, i finally saw the hou v suns game. amare wasn't that bad. the only play that irritated me was when diaw was underneath the basket and passed out to our three pt shooters instead of doing a reverse layup/dunk.


What bothered me was that Amare did not produce in the clutch. Nash brought the team to within 2 points twice, late in the game. I know Amare was not the only one who could not punch it in, but if he wants to be the leader of this team, he has to make those key plays.