Tuesday's News: Butterfingers, hangovers abounds

[SwingMan]

Warriors outrun Suns (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1126sunsgamer1127.html)

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 26, 2007 11:03 PM

OAKLAND - The matchup problems. The great passing. The versatile athletes switching everywhere on defense and shooting anywhere on offense. The overwhelming energy.

That is what the Suns are supposed to be all about. On Monday, it was their undoing because anything the Suns did, Golden State did better in a 129-114 victory at Oracle Arena.

For the second consecutive Oakland visit, the Suns looked in the mirror and found out they are not always the fairest of them all when it comes up an up-tempo game. Golden State (6-7) is getting back to the play that stunned Dallas in the first round of last season's playing, breaking Phoenix's eight-game win streak and moving to 5-1 since Stephen Jackson returned from a suspension.

The Warriors had their full lineup for the first time this season and outperformed Phoenix at every spot. Monta Ellis (31 points, including 15 in a row in the fourth quarter) looks like an All-Star every time he faces Phoenix. The Suns took turns and found nobody - with Marcus Banks absent for an aunt's funeral - who could handle Baron Davis (28 points, 10 assists). Jackson (32 points, 8 rebounds), who reduced MVP Dirk Nowitzki to a playoff goat, continued to show he is the heart of the Warriors.

Just like the teams' last meeting here in March, Warriors coach Don Nelson went with a starting five he had not previously used and showed a golden touch. Just like that win eight months ago, Golden State dropped 45 points on Phoenix in the first quarter.

The Warriors had not scored that many in a quarter in between the games but hit six three-pointers in Golden State's 29-shot quarter put Phoenix on its heels and Warriors fans on their feet in one of the NBA's loudest arenas.

Golden State started Davis, Ellis, Jackson, Matt Barnes and Al Harrington, giving the Suns a matchup problem with who to have Nash guard. Shawn Marion started on Davis but there was not any Warrior that Phoenix controlled, regardless of switches or doubles. Barnes, back from a personal issue, hit his only two shots and the other starters each scored eight to 12 points.

The Suns' offense was just fine, matching its second best first quarter of the season with 37 points. As Golden State's shooting cooled from 65.5 percent in the first quarter to 41.7 percent in the second quarter, Phoenix did not close the gap because Golden State made up for it with six free throw points. Despite the Suns hitting 7 of 13 three-point shots, Phoenix trailed 72-63 at halftime.

After a Raja Bell shooting tear pulled Phoenix closer early in the third quarter, the Suns' hole got deeper during a stretch in which Nash was pressing to create more and wound up with three turnovers. But when Nash rested, the Suns rallied as coach Mike D'Antoni went to Brian Skinner for the first time and kept him in for the final 15 minutes.

Leandro Barbosa scored eight points in the final 2:55 of the third and Phoenix closed with an 8-2 run that put the Warriors lead at 103-92 entering the fourth quarter. The Suns cut the lead to nine with 10:14 to go but then gave up nine unanswered points, including the start of Ellis' streak.

[Dustbuster]

My take on last night's game:

When Golden State is on, they are tough for anyone to beat. I downloaded both the Mavs series and the Jazz series from NBA.com, and I feel like I got to know the team pretty well. The Jazz handled them pretty well, but only when they stayed disciplined. The key to beating Golden State is to pound the ball inside, where they are pretty weak. The Warriors have a great deal of talent but no discipline at all. I don't enjoy them very much because so many of their guys seem like headcases, and if things go against the, both Baron and Jackson (in particular) are prone to start handing out flagrants. The Jazz handled them by pounding the ball into Boozer and Milsap, and also because of Mart Harpring playing physical enough with Jackson that Jackson turned into the headcase that he is and tried to beat Harpring one on one every time he had the ball. Kirilenko killed the layup line for the Warriors by blocking a ton of shots.

That's great for the Jazz, but its a big problem for the Suns. The Suns are not disciplined, they are not physical, and they don't consistently feed the post against teams that have vulnerabilities there. We put in our shotblocker way too late in the game. Amare, to me, is playing the most tentative that he ever has in his career. He is not a beast in the post or in the paint. Last night should have been a game where he could dominate, but he was pretty much a non-factor. I find that boxscores are deceiving this year: Amare's numbers look fine but his overall impact on the game is certainly less than what it has been in a long time. His defense is still really lacking.

Marion. I did not like his play at all last night. He seemed to fumble the ball a lot, blew a lot of layups, and just didn't seem to impact the game in much of a positive fashion. He seemed to get outplayed by whomever he was matched up with.

Barbosa needs to be in the starting lineup. I love Bell, but Barbosa is the better player now, and I think the starting lineup's chemistry is better with him.

Diaw played very well...he just didn't play enough. The Suns announcers were remarking about how good Diaw plays against GS, and sure enough, he was near a triple double in just 26 minutes. But he only played 26 minutes, and had only one foul, so it wasn't that. He had only one turnover (but seven assists) on a night when turnovers were killing us. His play in the post was getting not only points but fouls on guys like Baron Davis. He was boarding well (8 boards in 26 minutes). He was far more effective in the lineup than Amare was, or Marion, for that matter. He needed more minutes.

Skinner: D'Antoni went to him too late. He was trying to out-small-ball the Warriors, and failed. Big, athletic guys hurt the Warriors, and Skinner had 9-7r-2bl in 15 minutes. What could he have done with another 10 or 15 minutes?

Nash had a lot of turnovers, and blew a lot of defensive assignments. The turnovers were in part due to fumbled catches by his receivers, but GS is very good at creating deflections. They get their hands into a lot of plays.

Hill had good moments and bad moments. He wasn't a major problem, but he wasn't the solution.

In short, the Warriors were the better team last night. They will always be an "upset" team and never an "elite" team with this bunch, because they have too many selfish players and aren't really an intelligent basketball team. But on their good nights, they are pesky and can score a LOT of points quickly. They also have a great mentality about getting to the hoop. It goes without saying, however, that Baron will get injured at some point and Jackson will blow a gasket, and they will lose about 15 games due to those factors. I wouldn't want to draw them in the playoffs. San Antonio and Utah could both deal with them pretty easily - the Suns (and the Mavs, obviously), would have a pretty hard time. Their crowd is the best in the league, hands down.

[MightyMoog]

My take on the game. Really bad officiating. Same with last year in the playoffs, I don't know why but they get away with a lot of fouls and non calls.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

I was talking about Steve Jackson yesterday...Steve Jackson for MVP...HAHA..That will never happen..He has a rep for being a thug so most won't vote for him, but there is no denying how valuable he is to the Warriors..The Warriors are a tough matchup for us b/c Nash has to play defense and BD and Monta Ellis are Nash Killers.

[tbrkingofthesouth]

Suns' hole got deeper during a stretch in which Nash was pressing to create more and wound up with three turnovers. But when Nash rested, the Suns rallied as coach Mike D'Antoni went to Brian Skinner for the first time and kept him in for the final 15 minutes.

If we play the Warriors in the playoffs...Nash will be exposed...I want us to play Skinner more...Don Nelson really knows how to kick Nash and Dirks Ass..MVP? media darlings

[tbrkingofthesouth]

My take on last night's game:

When Golden State is on, they are tough for anyone to beat. I downloaded both the Mavs series and the Jazz series from NBA.com, and I feel like I got to know the team pretty well. The Jazz handled them pretty well, but only when they stayed disciplined. The key to beating Golden State is to pound the ball inside, where they are pretty weak. The Warriors have a great deal of talent but no discipline at all. I don't enjoy them very much because so many of their guys seem like headcases, and if things go against the, both Baron and Jackson (in particular) are prone to start handing out flagrants. The Jazz handled them by pounding the ball into Boozer and Milsap, and also because of Mart Harpring playing physical enough with Jackson that Jackson turned into the headcase that he is and tried to beat Harpring one on one every time he had the ball. Kirilenko killed the layup line for the Warriors by blocking a ton of shots.

That's great for the Jazz, but its a big problem for the Suns. The Suns are not disciplined, they are not physical, and they don't consistently feed the post against teams that have vulnerabilities there. We put in our shotblocker way too late in the game. Amare, to me, is playing the most tentative that he ever has in his career. He is not a beast in the post or in the paint. Last night should have been a game where he could dominate, but he was pretty much a non-factor. I find that boxscores are deceiving this year: Amare's numbers look fine but his overall impact on the game is certainly less than what it has been in a long time. His defense is still really lacking.

Marion. I did not like his play at all last night. He seemed to fumble the ball a lot, blew a lot of layups, and just didn't seem to impact the game in much of a positive fashion. He seemed to get outplayed by whomever he was matched up with.

Barbosa needs to be in the starting lineup. I love Bell, but Barbosa is the better player now, and I think the starting lineup's chemistry is better with him.

Diaw played very well...he just didn't play enough. The Suns announcers were remarking about how good Diaw plays against GS, and sure enough, he was near a triple double in just 26 minutes. But he only played 26 minutes, and had only one foul, so it wasn't that. He had only one turnover (but seven assists) on a night when turnovers were killing us. His play in the post was getting not only points but fouls on guys like Baron Davis. He was boarding well (8 boards in 26 minutes). He was far more effective in the lineup than Amare was, or Marion, for that matter. He needed more minutes.

Skinner: D'Antoni went to him too late. He was trying to out-small-ball the Warriors, and failed. Big, athletic guys hurt the Warriors, and Skinner had 9-7r-2bl in 15 minutes. What could he have done with another 10 or 15 minutes?

Nash had a lot of turnovers, and blew a lot of defensive assignments. The turnovers were in part due to fumbled catches by his receivers, but GS is very good at creating deflections. They get their hands into a lot of plays.

Hill had good moments and bad moments. He wasn't a major problem, but he wasn't the solution.

In short, the Warriors were the better team last night. They will always be an "upset" team and never an "elite" team with this bunch, because they have too many selfish players and aren't really an intelligent basketball team. But on their good nights, they are pesky and can score a LOT of points quickly. They also have a great mentality about getting to the hoop. It goes without saying, however, that Baron will get injured at some point and Jackson will blow a gasket, and they will lose about 15 games due to those factors. I wouldn't want to draw them in the playoffs. San Antonio and Utah could both deal with them pretty easily - the Suns (and the Mavs, obviously), would have a pretty hard time. Their crowd is the best in the league, hands down.


Wow, Dust you come down hard on everyone and let Nash off easy..Amare's defense is really lacking? how about Nash the worst defensive player in the NBA..He can't guard anyone on the Warriors...Don Nelson knows it..I know..You know it..they know it..We all know it

[OrlandoGardener]

Crazy officiating. Undisciplined players playing a disciplined game. Nash forcing passes, Hill repeatedly losing his footing, Amare missing his defensive assignments. Nobody really able to take the ressure off of our MVP. We were generally out-quicked, and the calls were inconsistent to say the least. Well, now we know a little of how Dallas fans feel.

Speaking of Dallas, they lost last night to Washington. SA lost to the Kings. Utah lost to the Knicks. NO lost to the TWolves.

Anyone know if it was a full moon last night? Crazy night, but GS is a team I hope we don't see in the playoffs. It may work out, because the may not make the playoffs.

[SwingMan]

Where Nash hurt us is where he accumilated nearly half of the team's TOs himself - that there damn near cancelled out the rest of his game.

That & he was, once again, pressing.

Got a sneaking suspicion that we'll also hear about Amare shutting himself down for a stint.....

[OrlandoGardener]

Dust-god assessment of GS.

Stouds: He's still not in game shape, and his timing is still a bit off from missing training camp. At this point in the season and his career he is still basically a glorified receiver for Steve's passes, so when the passing lanes are clogged, there's not much he can do. This is the part when Shel talks about his need for a post game. Add to that, he just doesn't know the defensive schemes.

Boris: Right. He was the best Sun last night. How did Coach not see that?

Skinner: Right. But if we want more minutes for Skinn and Diaw, who gets fewer? Hill could have given up 8, and Marion 10. That's what I think.

Barbs and Bell: I'm not ready to put Bell on the bench yet. Let's give him another month and see how he plays with his legs under him. I agree that LB is a better player right now, but you don't always start your best 5, and Bell's shoting and defense will improve.

[Squeege63]

I didn't see the game or even get to watch it on gamecast because I was working, but looking at the box score this morning, at first glance, if you don't look at the score it looks like a game the suns should have one. They won rebounding, which is a category we normally lose. And we were around our average numbers for the rest of the categories. The only one that was off, was the one that killed us, turnovers - way too high. And then you start to look more closely and you see how many more shots GS took, and how many more 3s they took.

[TheHawk]

Tough game to watch last night, the whole team seemed a bit rattled from the get go, and the officiating was pretty bad (inconsistent charging/blocking fouls), but I'm chalking this one up to the fact that Golden State was simply unstoppable last night. I know they exposed our weaknesses, but they also were swishing shots, off-balance, with a hand right in their face. Monta Ellis was unconscious, Steven Jackson couldn't miss from 3, Azibuke was a monster in the first half, not to mention the all around game that Baron brought (did he even sit the whole game?). While I wasn't proud of many of our players, I actually thought the bright side was seeing Grant Hill slashing to the hoop and the shotblocking/bruising presence of Skinner - two things we've been missing the past couple years.

I guess all I'm saying is, lets put this one behind us, the opponent was on fire, and we were as sloppy as we've ever been. Mark the next meeting on the calendar and let's start up another win streak in the meantime.

[TheHawk]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/images/tribune_logo.gif
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/102809



Suns lose at their own game against Warriors
Jerry Brown, Tribune - November 27, 2007 - 12:20AM

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/images/photos/2007/11/26/csil4oe.jpg
Phoenix Suns' Steve Nash (13) goes up for a shot as Golden State Warriors' Baron Davis watches during the first half of a basketball game Monday, in Oakland, Calif.

OAKLAND, CALIF. - Golden State’s Don Nelson would only acknowledge Monday’s matchup with the Suns was an interesting showdown between two teams who have sold their souls to the offensive siren with a caveat.

“(Phoenix coach Mike D’Antoni) just has more and better players than I do,” Nelson sighed. “We must have the slowest fast-break team in history.”

But there is nothing like a wide-open, pick-and-roll-clinic, free-for-all against Phoenix to get a team’s juices flowing, and the Warriors greedily accepted the challenge to run all night and rudely end Phoenix’s eight-game winning streak with a 129-114 win.

The Golden State trio of Stephen Jackson (32), Monta Ellis (31) and Baron Davis (28) combined for 91 points, with Jackson dominating early and Ellis closing it with 15 straight points in the fourth quarter after Phoenix worked to cut a 17-point deficit to nine with 10 minutes left in the game.

Phoenix’s bid to become the third team in franchise history to start 12-2 went by the boards in a hail of 20 turnovers — eight of them by Steve Nash — which were almost instantly turned into Warrior baskets on the other end (37 points).

Nash led six Suns in double figures with 23 points, but Phoenix scored more than 100 points and lost for the first time this season. It wasn’t even close as the Warriors mixed 56 points in the paint with 13 3-pointers and kept the Suns at bay all night.

Grant Hill and Amaré Stoudemire had 17 points each for the Suns, who allowed the most points in a quarter (45), half (72) and game for them this season.

[Nodack]

Excellent take Dustbuster.

[Mori_Chu]

I agree with the others that this game isn't a major cause for alarm. Golden State is a very unique team, an enigma that causes problems for a lot of teams. Last night they were on fire, and a weak defensive team like ours couldn't stop them. The home crowd and mild ref bias didn't help us.

The best thing we can do is look forward. I hope Coach saw who was and wasn't playing well and took some notes.

[sehan]

Regarding the officiating - they were in their home court and was super aggressive. They deserved to get the calls they got cause they were the aggressors.

Stop blaming everything on a 3rd party - we lost that game with or without the officiating. They ran harder than us, they were more confident than us, and they exploited match ups and we didn't cause Mike is one tick pony.

There are few teams that seem to give us problems on regular basis, and Nelson's GS is one of them.

But not to worry, I'll take our chances with them in a 7 game playoff series any day.

[OrlandoGardener]

That's what Avery said.

[v9]

Skinner: D'Antoni went to him too late. He was trying to out-small-ball the Warriors, and failed. Big, athletic guys hurt the Warriors, and Skinner had 9-7r-2bl in 15 minutes. What could he have done with another 10 or 15 minutes?

BUT - I LOVE that D'Antoni went to our version of the Twin Towers for the third or fourth game in a row. It SHOWS that he's not a one-trick pony who's not willing to adjust. Give him a traditional big man who can run and has (an ugly but somewhat effective) jumper - and D'Antoni will actually play a traditional lineup!


But not to worry, I'll take our chances with them in a 7 game playoff series any day.

When Amare is actually Amare (not hobbled by an unknown knee condition), the Suns could destroy the Warriors on the inside...Amare's not looking good at all.

[Coop]

After watching last nights game I am not surprised and I really know what coach meant by our crowds now.

How could GS not be phsyched and ready to go with a crowd like that. You could of swore this was a championship game.

Believe it or not but players can play alot better when they feel and hear there fans cheering them on.

[ShelC]

GS is a confidence team. When theyre in that zone like they were last night and against the Mavs, you cant do much except hope they go cold. From what i was seeing in the 3rd, even when Raja hit those 3 shots and we tried to make a push, they werent rattled and still took and made big/risky shots. Given them credit but move on.

[Dammit]

Start barbs! He's earned it. Let Raja get minutes off the bench until he gets 100% healthy and earns his starting spot back.

With barbs in the starting lineup we were jumping on teams right from the jump like we did in '04-05. Kinda like what happened to us last night. lol

[duck44]

My take on last night's game:

When Golden State is on, they are tough for anyone to beat. I downloaded both the Mavs series and the Jazz series from NBA.com, and I feel like I got to know the team pretty well. The Jazz handled them pretty well, but only when they stayed disciplined. The key to beating Golden State is to pound the ball inside, where they are pretty weak. The Warriors have a great deal of talent but no discipline at all. I don't enjoy them very much because so many of their guys seem like headcases, and if things go against the, both Baron and Jackson (in particular) are prone to start handing out flagrants. The Jazz handled them by pounding the ball into Boozer and Milsap, and also because of Mart Harpring playing physical enough with Jackson that Jackson turned into the headcase that he is and tried to beat Harpring one on one every time he had the ball. Kirilenko killed the layup line for the Warriors by blocking a ton of shots.

That's great for the Jazz, but its a big problem for the Suns. The Suns are not disciplined, they are not physical, and they don't consistently feed the post against teams that have vulnerabilities there. We put in our shotblocker way too late in the game. Amare, to me, is playing the most tentative that he ever has in his career. He is not a beast in the post or in the paint. Last night should have been a game where he could dominate, but he was pretty much a non-factor. I find that boxscores are deceiving this year: Amare's numbers look fine but his overall impact on the game is certainly less than what it has been in a long time. His defense is still really lacking.

Marion. I did not like his play at all last night. He seemed to fumble the ball a lot, blew a lot of layups, and just didn't seem to impact the game in much of a positive fashion. He seemed to get outplayed by whomever he was matched up with.

Barbosa needs to be in the starting lineup. I love Bell, but Barbosa is the better player now, and I think the starting lineup's chemistry is better with him.

Diaw played very well...he just didn't play enough. The Suns announcers were remarking about how good Diaw plays against GS, and sure enough, he was near a triple double in just 26 minutes. But he only played 26 minutes, and had only one foul, so it wasn't that. He had only one turnover (but seven assists) on a night when turnovers were killing us. His play in the post was getting not only points but fouls on guys like Baron Davis. He was boarding well (8 boards in 26 minutes). He was far more effective in the lineup than Amare was, or Marion, for that matter. He needed more minutes.

Skinner: D'Antoni went to him too late. He was trying to out-small-ball the Warriors, and failed. Big, athletic guys hurt the Warriors, and Skinner had 9-7r-2bl in 15 minutes. What could he have done with another 10 or 15 minutes?

Nash had a lot of turnovers, and blew a lot of defensive assignments. The turnovers were in part due to fumbled catches by his receivers, but GS is very good at creating deflections. They get their hands into a lot of plays.

Hill had good moments and bad moments. He wasn't a major problem, but he wasn't the solution.

In short, the Warriors were the better team last night. They will always be an "upset" team and never an "elite" team with this bunch, because they have too many selfish players and aren't really an intelligent basketball team. But on their good nights, they are pesky and can score a LOT of points quickly. They also have a great mentality about getting to the hoop. It goes without saying, however, that Baron will get injured at some point and Jackson will blow a gasket, and they will lose about 15 games due to those factors. I wouldn't want to draw them in the playoffs. San Antonio and Utah could both deal with them pretty easily - the Suns (and the Mavs, obviously), would have a pretty hard time. Their crowd is the best in the league, hands down.


Wow, Dust you come down hard on everyone and let Nash off easy..Amare's defense is really lacking? how about Nash the worst defensive player in the NBA..He can't guard anyone on the Warriors...Don Nelson knows it..I know..You know it..they know it..We all know it

Dude, you can`t stand Nash can you? :roll:

[BigLewy]

Granted I only saw the first half, but GS takes terrible shots. By that, I mean Baron pulling up for a 1 on 4 3, taking insanely difficult fadeaways, etc. When shots like that are falling, there is nothing you can do. the Warriors play so undisciplined, but when it clicks for a night, they are liable to beat anyone. I highly doubt they would do that again. Flush it and move on.

[OrlandoGardener]

That's what Avery said.

[Wormwood]

OK,

Big_fan, cap, Max (if you're out there) stick around, and I'll tell you why.

I agree we haven't beat the really good competition. But then again, we haven't played any of our main rivals but Houston, and we beat them handily.

Does GSW own us. Yep. Does it worry me too much right now? Nope. There's always going to be teams you don't match up well with. We've owned Houston, and even Dallas. San Antonio and GSW beat us. Dallas Beats San Antonio. GSW beats Dallas. Rock, paper, scisssors.

Unless we meet GS in the playoffs, it's not a problem. We just need to make sure we don't meet them in the 1st round.

One common thread is we don't do well against young, fast, three point shooting teams. Atlanta beat us pretty much the same way. As for LA, sometimes you just have a bad night. Charlotte beat San Antonio last year. It happens.

Nash has never done well against big, fast, physical point gurads like Davis, Billups, and Kidd. No news here, he still won two (shoulda been three) MVP trophies anyway. Nash's defensive liabilities are a big part of why GS does so well against us, since we can't hide him on anyone.

Dustbuster, phenomenal post. I can't add too much more.

We always overreact (myself included) to losses around here. Let's just see where we go from here. I think it's safe to take the shotgun barrels out of our mouths and our toes off the triggers. I predicted a loss to GS, but that won't stop me from predicting a decisive win over Houston on Wednesday. Some teams are just built to beat others. We'll get the Rockettes out of the way, and we can all feel good again.

[JackArse]

Regarding the officiating - they were in their home court and was super aggressive. They deserved to get the calls they got cause they were the aggressors.

Stop blaming everything on a 3rd party - we lost that game with or without the officiating. They ran harder than us, they were more confident than us, and they exploited match ups and we didn't cause Mike is one tick pony.

There are few teams that seem to give us problems on regular basis, and Nelson's GS is one of them.

But not to worry, I'll take our chances with them in a 7 game playoff series any day.

sehan.. i don't think anyone is saying that the refs cost us the game, it just shouldn't have looked as bad as it did. we lost, no doubt, they were the better team that night..

on that note. i do have a problem that other teams can be aggressive with us, and get the calls, but rarely can we be aggressive without it being called on us.

[AmareIsGod]

Bravo, Worm. Bravo!

[JackArse]

OK,

Big_fan, cap, Max (if you're out there) stick around, and I'll tell you why.

I agree we haven't beat the really good competition. But then again, we haven't played any of our main rivals but Houston, and we beat them handily.

Does GSW own us. Yep. Does it worry me too much right now? Nope. There's always going to be teams you don't match up well with. We've owned Houston, and even Dallas. San Antonio and GSW beat us. Dallas Beats San Antonio. GSW beats Dallas. Rock, paper, scisssors.

Unless we meet GS in the playoffs, it's not a problem. We just need to make sure we don't meet them in the 1st round.

One common thread is we don't do well against young, fast, three point shooting teams. Atlanta beat us pretty much the same way. As for LA, sometimes you just have a bad night. Charlotte beat San Antonio last year. It happens.

Nash has never done well against big, fast, physical point gurads like Davis, Billups, and Kidd. No news here, he still won two (shoulda been three) MVP trophies anyway. Nash's defensive liabilities are a big part of why GS does so well against us, since we can't hide him on anyone.

Dustbuster, <jim rome> phenomenal post. I can't add too much more.

We always overreact (myself included) to losses around here. Let's just see where we go from here. I think it's safe to take the shotgun barrels out of our mouths and our toes off the triggers. I predicted a loss to GS, but that won't stop me from predicting a decisive win over Houston on Wednesday. Some teams are just built to beat others. We'll get the Rockettes out of the way, and we can all feel good again.

where's our worm? are you like bizarro worm? you should stay.

:lol:

[sunsdotcom]

jamario moon = richard dumas?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ickVVToIGmQ

[tbrkingofthesouth]

My take on last night's game:

When Golden State is on, they are tough for anyone to beat. I downloaded both the Mavs series and the Jazz series from NBA.com, and I feel like I got to know the team pretty well. The Jazz handled them pretty well, but only when they stayed disciplined. The key to beating Golden State is to pound the ball inside, where they are pretty weak. The Warriors have a great deal of talent but no discipline at all. I don't enjoy them very much because so many of their guys seem like headcases, and if things go against the, both Baron and Jackson (in particular) are prone to start handing out flagrants. The Jazz handled them by pounding the ball into Boozer and Milsap, and also because of Mart Harpring playing physical enough with Jackson that Jackson turned into the headcase that he is and tried to beat Harpring one on one every time he had the ball. Kirilenko killed the layup line for the Warriors by blocking a ton of shots.

That's great for the Jazz, but its a big problem for the Suns. The Suns are not disciplined, they are not physical, and they don't consistently feed the post against teams that have vulnerabilities there. We put in our shotblocker way too late in the game. Amare, to me, is playing the most tentative that he ever has in his career. He is not a beast in the post or in the paint. Last night should have been a game where he could dominate, but he was pretty much a non-factor. I find that boxscores are deceiving this year: Amare's numbers look fine but his overall impact on the game is certainly less than what it has been in a long time. His defense is still really lacking.

Marion. I did not like his play at all last night. He seemed to fumble the ball a lot, blew a lot of layups, and just didn't seem to impact the game in much of a positive fashion. He seemed to get outplayed by whomever he was matched up with.

Barbosa needs to be in the starting lineup. I love Bell, but Barbosa is the better player now, and I think the starting lineup's chemistry is better with him.

Diaw played very well...he just didn't play enough. The Suns announcers were remarking about how good Diaw plays against GS, and sure enough, he was near a triple double in just 26 minutes. But he only played 26 minutes, and had only one foul, so it wasn't that. He had only one turnover (but seven assists) on a night when turnovers were killing us. His play in the post was getting not only points but fouls on guys like Baron Davis. He was boarding well (8 boards in 26 minutes). He was far more effective in the lineup than Amare was, or Marion, for that matter. He needed more minutes.

Skinner: D'Antoni went to him too late. He was trying to out-small-ball the Warriors, and failed. Big, athletic guys hurt the Warriors, and Skinner had 9-7r-2bl in 15 minutes. What could he have done with another 10 or 15 minutes?

Nash had a lot of turnovers, and blew a lot of defensive assignments. The turnovers were in part due to fumbled catches by his receivers, but GS is very good at creating deflections. They get their hands into a lot of plays.

Hill had good moments and bad moments. He wasn't a major problem, but he wasn't the solution.

In short, the Warriors were the better team last night. They will always be an "upset" team and never an "elite" team with this bunch, because they have too many selfish players and aren't really an intelligent basketball team. But on their good nights, they are pesky and can score a LOT of points quickly. They also have a great mentality about getting to the hoop. It goes without saying, however, that Baron will get injured at some point and Jackson will blow a gasket, and they will lose about 15 games due to those factors. I wouldn't want to draw them in the playoffs. San Antonio and Utah could both deal with them pretty easily - the Suns (and the Mavs, obviously), would have a pretty hard time. Their crowd is the best in the league, hands down.


Wow, Dust you come down hard on everyone and let Nash off easy..Amare's defense is really lacking? how about Nash the worst defensive player in the NBA..He can't guard anyone on the Warriors...Don Nelson knows it..I know..You know it..they know it..We all know it

Dude, you can`t stand Nash can you? :roll:

Duck, I love Nash, but he has his flaws..I'm just not blind like a lot of people here when it comes to Nash..I know whats going on..Nash and Dirk are Don Nelson's bitches..It's the truth...When those two play 1on1 it's prob like a game of horse (no D) LOL

[Mori_Chu]

jamario moon = richard dumas?

Bryan Colangelo keeps finding diamonds in the rough for Toronto. These could be rotation guys for us here in Phoenix if our owner (like our coach) weren't so stubborn.

[sehan]

tbr - no one is saying that Nash is a defensive stopper, but I wouldn't go so far as to call Nash Nelson's bitch.

Nash simply took his game to another level when he came to Phoenix. I think it was combination of personnel in Phoenix, coaching style, and training staff, but Nash of Phoenix is leaps and bounds above Nash of Dallas days with Nelson.

Will Nash able be able to stop a fast, 210 lb athletic 1s in the league? No. Goes to show that no one is perfect and god is fair. Nevertheless, I think everyone one in the league will live with Nash as it is. Bottom line, there is no other point guard out there better than him and ANY team in the league would die to have Nash running point.

[sunsdotcom]

jamario made a fantastic move that reminded me of dr j. you rarely see those types of moves anymore.

[Mori_Chu]

Bottom line, there is no other point guard out there better than him and ANY team in the league would die to have Nash running point.

Well, of course. Is anybody arguing otherwise?

[sehan]

Bottom line, there is no other point guard out there better than him and ANY team in the league would die to have Nash running point.

Well, of course. Is anybody arguing otherwise?

Don't want to put words in other people's mouth so I'll say no, but just making sure we are all in agreement, mostly tbr, that we are very very lucky to have Nash. :)

[tbrkingofthesouth]

We are very lucky to have Nash..I would like to have J-Kidd back in the valley running w/ Hill,Amare, Shawn, and LB, but maybe we can win a ring with Nash's poor D vs J-Kidds poor J. If J-Kidd had Nashty shot and Nash had J-Kidds D they would be the best in history.

[SunsFan4Life]

GS is a Team that we will beat at home and lose to on the road.

Like someone said they have a lot of headcase players, who feed off of the crowd and positive energy. If I recall Last season we spilt with them winning 2 at home and losing 2 on the road.

GS is a tough place to win...I mean we lost but The Spurs lost in Sacto who is a much worse team then GS and they aren't obverreacting.

[darrkin]

We beat them once in their gym last year on a Nash miracle three near buzzer..that was sweet! Think they beat us once in our gym also...
Who cares though, one game, on the road you lose sometimes...As long as we can get our revenge on Lakers and SA I will be happy

[MTSunsFan]

As long as we take care of business get to the Finals this year, I could give a rat's a$$ about 1 meaningless game vs. GS 14 games into a very long season...

[TexSUN]

We beat them once in their gym last year on a Nash miracle three near buzzer..that was sweet! Think they beat us once in our gym also...
Who cares though, one game, on the road you lose sometimes...As long as we can get our revenge on Lakers and SA I will be happy

I agree with the above. However, since I just looked this up the other day...

For the curious, last year against GS, here's what we had:

Nov 20 @GS Suns win 113-110 (on the Nash 3-pointer at the end)
Dec 15 @home Suns win 105-101 (can't remember the details)
Jan 7 @home Suns win 128-105
Mar 29 @GS GS wins 124-119 in what was a blowout similar to this week's game until the Suns' second unit (including Banks!) made a post-towel-thrown-in comeback.

The last game was the only game of the four that included the Warriors' full lineup (J.Richardson, Davis, Jackson, etc) after the Indiana trade. The first three were pre-Indiana trade. Also, Baron Davis missed the first game, and Jason Richard missed the second and third. So, we are 0-2 against the full lineup of post-Indiana trade Warriors so far. Seems this could be one of those quirky matchups where the team that should be the better one overall ends up looking a lot worse than they really are. (We still have a pretty small sample size, though)

[cap]

As long as we take care of business get to the Finals this year, I could give a rat's a$$ about 1 meaningless game vs. GS 14 games into a very long season...
We get blown out every time we face a playoff-quality Western Conference team, but yeah, I’m sure that means that getting to the Finals should be no problem.

[LazarusLong]

Cap,
What are your major issues with this team?
I'm not being sarcastic or trying to bait you ... because I have some misgivings, also.
Just curious.

[MTSunsFan]

Nice, cap. :roll: BTW what did I ever do to you???

[CNY_xplant]

As long as we take care of business get to the Finals this year, I could give a rat's a$$ about 1 meaningless game vs. GS 14 games into a very long season...
We get blown out every time we face a playoff-quality Western Conference team, but yeah, I’m sure that means that getting to the Finals should be no problem.

Damn cap!
This is exactly the defeatist attitude that I have been referring to.

According to you, this team can do no right.

I think everyone here can agree that this team needs improvement. But to infer that we can't make it to the Finals because of a couple of bad early games is ridiculous.

Relax a little and show us that you are an actual fan of this team. You're starting to sound like a fan of one of those Texas teams. :wink:

[sunsdotcom]

Cap,
What are your major issues with this team?
I'm not being sarcastic or trying to bait you ... because I have some misgivings, also.
Just curious.

It's as if he's saying: We need to make a trade...

[Mori_Chu]

We get blown out every time we face a playoff-quality Western Conference team, but yeah, I’m sure that means that getting to the Finals should be no problem.

I totally agree. We are not a title contender this year so far, and I don't think we're taking steps that will get us there during the course of the year.

One thing that might help get us there would be widening our rotation a bit. A well-done trade would also help.

Anybody else read the Sports Guy's marathon chat? He thinks we should trade Amare. I tend to agree that Amare doesn't fit well with the rest of our team. I also think that getting something for him now before his next major knee injury would be a great idea. I think we need more defense and rebounding from our big man, and hopefully somebody whose offense meshes better with the others.

[LazarusLong]

Uh, read the "Butterfingers are candy bars" thread, Mori.
All the Amare trade suggestions from Simmons chat are posted there...

[sunsdotcom]

camby and najera for amare.
odom for marion.

[Mori_Chu]

odom for marion.

The way Marion has been playing? I don't think so. Besides, our crappy D isn't Shawn's fault. He works hard on D and on rebounding.